Hawks 98, Cavs 84

Greetings, all-

Sorry this is a little late. I wanted to get out of the arena media work room so the poor gents who have to wait on me to leave so they can lock up could get home a little earlier than normal, and then once I got home, I was futzing around a little bit.

Anyway, I confess I don’t have a ton to offer you. We found out about the Atlanta Spirit settlement right after the first quarter, and I spent much of the rest of the game helping out on a story about that, so I didn’t get to watch much of the game itself. I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m asking you to feel sorry for me because I’m not. Just explainin’ is all. It sounds like it was actually a pretty impressive second half.

Anyway, a brief thought on the settlement. I saw some entries on the blog about how this might affect the team. My guess is not much. One point that Bruce Levenson made is that he’s never had a player or coach or any Hawks or Thrashers staff member ask about how the lawsuit was going. It’s not like it was hanging over anyone’s heads, except for those directly involved, I presume.

It’s worth noting that to buy Steve Belkin out, of course, the ownership group had to give him money to go away, so presumably the shoe box with all the cash in it just got lighter. It’s conceivable that with the settlement out of the way, the Spirit group will be better able to attract investors, which they need. However, I think you’ll agree that this doesn’t likely strike most as a terrific investment. Both teams are having trouble drawing despite both performing fairly well.

I guess this would strike the more bold as a great time to invest in that the Thrashers certainly seem like they’re on the way up and the Hawks figure to be competitive for the near term. But, then, there’s a pretty long history of people not buying tickets that you kind of have to get around.

Anyway, on to the game.

Team was very flat to start. Larry Drew said he’d told the team at shootaround and then before the game to be wary of coming out slow. 1) They’d just beaten Orlando. 2) They were at home. 3) Cleveland is very easy to look past. 4) It’s almost Christmas.

Despite all that – or maybe because of it – they were still not into it at all. It picked up a lot in the second quarter, I thought, and then Drew said he talked to the team at the half, and that’s when the game changed.

Obviously, Joe Johnson’s best game since coming back from surgery. He said it was one of his best games of the season, saying he hasn’t felt in rhythm much this season. Drew said he called a lot of plays for him and that Johnson was playing with confidence. I haven’t seen a ton of games, but I can’t recall one in which Johnson had such a height advantage over the guy guarding him.

Didn’t get to talk to Marvin Williams afterwards, but a great game, evidently. Perhaps the not starting really did get under his skin. I’ll say this — he invariably is in a good mood and has a good attitude so I was a little surprised at how much not starting Monday bothered him. If that was the bee in his bonnet tonight, maybe it’s a stick that Larry Drew can use with him. As for how often he’d go with Jason Collins at 5, I’m not sure, but I imagine it’d be every time they play someone with a dominant center.

Some Drew quotes:

“We tried to exploit some mismatches that we thought were to our advantage. That’s the way we have to play. That’s the way we want to play. As I told the guys, we have enough play sets that we can get into different things where teams can’t lock in on us. Certainly, when you see what you think is an advantageous matchup you’ve got to go right to it and that’s what we did tonight.”

On the second half:

“Didn’t do a whole lot as far as any type of adjustments, but what we did was I thought we did thing sa lot harder we were fighting through screens a lot harder. We were making a conscious effort of boxing out. We were pushing the basketball off the boards and when we got out there and started running, that’s when we were at our best.”

From reading the game thread — I really wish I’d heard “dagger in the coffin.” Thanks for sharing that.

whatcha think?

287 comments Add your comment

Rev in Tampa

December 23rd, 2010
1:19 am

Thanks, Ken, for the recap. I would love to hear exactly how Marvin expressed his displeasure at not starting. I can’t believe he would feel he has the right to start after the way he disappears for stretches of games. What do the coaches say to him when he is in the midst of his disappearing act? I can only believe that they would be in his face. But his surprise and irritation makes me think he has never yet been held accoutable.

The Truth

December 23rd, 2010
1:20 am

“Team was very flat to start. Larry Drew said he’d told the team at shootaround and then before the game to be wary of coming out slow. 1) They’d just beaten Orlando. 2) They were at home. 3) Cleveland is very easy to look past. 4) It’s almost Christmas”

On LD’s #4 point:

Wishing all you bloggers a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! (I’m out)

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmEMcWFa0v8&feature=related

Rev in Tampa

December 23rd, 2010
1:22 am

“accountable” – My irritatio at Marvi made me leave out the “n’s”

SteveW

December 23rd, 2010
1:45 am

How about Jamal, and Mo’ and a 2nd pick for Rip Hamilton and Will Bynum? Rip wants out of Detroit it’s reported. The salaries match up.

SteveW

December 23rd, 2010
1:46 am

LD seems to be unlocking Marvin and Teague. Now if he can unlock ZaZa, we’ve got a shot.

SteveW

December 23rd, 2010
1:51 am

Reports are the Magic may be shipping J Richardson to the Bobcats for Gerald Wallace, or to the Nuggets with some pieces for a 1 year rental on ‘Melo. Both J Richardson and ‘Melo have expiring contracts. Interesting to say the least.

SteveW

December 23rd, 2010
1:55 am

Another J Richardson scenario floating is Diaw and Diop for J Richardson.

The Nets have the best ‘Melo pieces, but they’re not doing anything unless ‘Melo commits to sign. Favors, Murphy, and 2 1st picks (the Nets have 5 1st picks the next 2 years), and they’re reportedly willing to throw in more 1st picks for Harrington and Billups. They would have to throw in more players for that to work under the cap, but that’s the reporting on an NBA site.

Jamillion

December 23rd, 2010
2:07 am

Hey i love rips game. It works you. Plus he plays defense. I’m all for it if we can get a point or center. Yea wish LD a switch the line up and start teague when we face good pgs

Clyde

December 23rd, 2010
2:58 am

Fire Sund

Free Jordan Crawford

Jamillion

December 23rd, 2010
3:02 am

Some good points to be had.Could be mo williams,t j ford, calderon, ridnour,baron davis,udrih, mike conley, or bill ups. All these trades can be made cause these teams are losers wishing to shed salary plus they aren’t in luv with these players

Jamillion

December 23rd, 2010
3:07 am

Another good trade bibby mo and jamal for mo williams and jamison. While trading zaza to charlotte for tyrus thomas.Shores up our bench and gives us a strong team. Mj a go for this by saying za za has play off experience or some dumb ish. Bench mw jt jc2 aj twin damien powell. Very solid

Jamillion

December 23rd, 2010
3:14 am

And to show you jordan a go for it he’s trying to get j rich back for the same player he traded him for and plus he brought back kwame brown. He gives way players-wish he had a good point cause he in luv with marvin.

Double Zero Eight

December 23rd, 2010
7:52 am

It appears that most bloggers are in agreement that the
Hawks’ current roster is not capable of winning the eastern
conference. Since the lawsuit has been settled, let’s hope
that we can trade for the mssing pieces.

drmaryb (*_*)

December 23rd, 2010
8:08 am

Inside Peanut Butter – Outside Jelly!

Sautee said this:

“We need to take EVERY SHOT in the paint. They have no shot blocking.
Yeah, Al I like your jumper. Take it the F inside”

Amen Bruh! I’ve been singing that for months and ain’t nobody gave me no Grammy! Mix it up! Bump & Grind! I wanna feel some body heat and friction from these BIG 4 & 5’s! Bump That Jelly Game – I Like it Hard and Raw And Real!

Ok drmaryb … calm down! Its too early in the morning for all that!
Or, Is It?

Wink-Wink!

drmaryb (*_*)

December 23rd, 2010
8:12 am

So Sue Me!

After 6 plus years of infighting? Who cares about a millionaire’s law suit?
They can all go F themselves for all I care!

What about these Hawks! If, we had a Super-Star? They would have no problems selling tickets in Atlanta. People ’round here look for things to do and are trendy! Sorry, but The Hawks? Have NOT been a TREND!

Go get us somebody and we will ALL cum!

It was not a bad pick

December 23rd, 2010
9:02 am

Rev in Tampa

Marvin only disapears when he is not getting touches and the hawks are not passing the ball…Lately Marvin has been getting touches and he has been producing…you cannot score the ball if you never receive it..

Oldtimer

December 23rd, 2010
9:08 am

Good game last night. Hawks finishing the week better after demoralizing loss to NJ. Seems like JJ is getting his touch back. Need a few more games like that. If we can get Jamal back, we may be able to put a winning streak together. Will Chicago ever lose?

{MAC-Town Georgia 478}

December 23rd, 2010
9:12 am

“People ’round here look for things to do and are trendy!”

I agree with this. ATL is just not the place where people are going to come out in bunches and support something dull, boring, stagnant, or “old news” just to show love for the home team.

It was all nice when the overachieving, high flying Hawks we’re an 8th seed looking to take down the big bad Celtics in the 1st Round. However, after a couple years of finishing “right below” the pack of elites and currently slipping further down the middle of the pack, it’s just not interesting enough to draw the fans out in the A. They need to make a move that brings in a big name, or helps mold a team that seriously can contend for the east.

Fundamentals

December 23rd, 2010
9:17 am

Merry Christmas Everyone. I hope everyone gets some good time with family this weekend. I’m praying the Z-Pack makes my wife better in time for her family Christmas. Seems there’s some sort of bug that isn’t quite the flu going around my neck of the woods. High fever, congestion, chills, fatigue…I pray no one else gets it.

Seems like Teague’s confidence is on the rise. He might just be there by Feb if his minutes continue to remain consistent or increase slightly.

Marvin has been better this year than many before. He’s still not meeting his potential, but he is starting to show up most every game. I kept saying – give LD till Feb. Maybe he can unlock Marvin’s potential. No one can say he hasn’t been giving Marvin the opportunity to shine.

Joe definitely looked great last night. Smiling, shooting freely, enjoying himself. Maybe I was wrong on the elbow. Hopefully he’ll use the 3 days rest to hone in his jumper and be ready for the stretch run. Last night was the first time Joe has seemed like Joe since mid-season last year. I think folks underestimate what this kid can do if he’s healthy. I think he’s gotta learn to trust his teammates. They’ve grown alot since last year.

The TPE, Mo and Etan would be useful to shop for teams looking to clear contracts. Just make sure we need them long term when we get them. I’d be very careful dealing away JC1 too quickly. I’ve been playing with the trade machine alot, but can’t seem to find a way to deal ZaZa, Mo, Etan & the TPE for the help we need.

MC – what are the rules in releasing players? What can we do to be ready to pick up some talent in Feb? Last year we had a prime opportunity and we signed Rio before it started.

Fundamentals

December 23rd, 2010
9:21 am

It was not a bad pick – the past 5 games Marvin has been hitting the open shot when he gets it. If he continues to be reliable, your boy will see the rock more often. He’s gotta be consistent. He’s gotta show up every night. When he does the team will respond like they have lately.

I loved the responses from the entire team when Marvin jammed it a few times this season. Shows just how much the team wants to see Marvin unlock his potentitial. Your boy has the potential to be the ultimate glue guy for this team or be the guy that makes sure we fall apart.

{MAC-Town Georgia 478}

December 23rd, 2010
9:22 am

As much as we like to poke fun at Marvin, there’s some truth to what “It was not a bad pick” just said.

Look at the game logs and notice all the games where Marvin’s took a double digit amount of shots this season,
Here are his point totals

“17, 16, 26, 15, 22, 15, 17, 22″

He needs to assert himself.

Fundamentals

December 23rd, 2010
9:28 am

Marvin’s energy and effort is just as contagious as Smoove’s. He gets looks and touches, but honestly doesn’t act on them every game. When he does and if he converts the attempt the team feeds on it. When he scores at least 15 we almost always win. He’s the glue guy. He’s gotta realize how important it is to bring it every night. He’s got to realize how important hitting those limited jumpers are to the morale of the team.

J from the A

December 23rd, 2010
9:31 am

“No. I wasn’t cool with it man,” said Williams to HOOPSWORLD about being benched. “It was something different. I’ve been starting here since my second year here, but it was a choice he (Drew) felt like he had to make and I had to live with it. I don’t know if he’ll ever make that change again and I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. But like I said, I’ve been a starter pretty much since I’ve been here but he chose to make that change and I have to live with it.”

J from the A

December 23rd, 2010
9:32 am

FROM AJC:

“I’ll be honest with you,” Williams said. “I didn’t like it, but I have to live with it.”

{MAC-Town Georgia 478}

December 23rd, 2010
9:32 am

The Hawks are 12-2 when Marvin scores in double digits.

J from the A

December 23rd, 2010
9:32 am

Sorry left out some of the pertinent AJC stuff:

“He was a real pro and I didn’t expect anything different from him,” Drew said.

Drew noted some advantages to coming off the bench: Williams would be more of a scoring option with the backups and he could get a feel for the game before going in. Williams needs a little more convincing.

Said Williams, “You do what you have to do for the team.”

Fundamentals

December 23rd, 2010
9:50 am

Marvin needs to realize we’re 12-2 when he scores double digits, not 12-2 when he starts. That’s the real story here. If we get a quality C to help Collins and thus move Horford and Smoove up a lost, Marvin will become permenant off the bench unless he can outcompete Smoove. Does he not see that writing on the wall? If he wants to start he best start producing NIGHTLY.

Maybe it is all in accountability from the coach to the players? If we can get a double double out of Marvin, how can we get D out of Bibby? If we had both we’d be ECF bound, no doubt.

It was not a bad pick

December 23rd, 2010
9:55 am

I would be mad also, Marvin was drafted #2 and can be a 20 ppg scorer if given the shots, but instead he is asked to be basically a catch and shoot type player, he can play with his back to the basket and drive also.Al has got a lot better with his shot.. Josh should have been moved to the bench, I like him but he takes bad shots, but he might have Power bomb Drew if sent to the bench..I hope when Jamal come back, Marvin still get plays called for him..

It was not a bad pick

December 23rd, 2010
10:00 am

Fundamentals

Maybe this will make him more aggresive..He has to learn to play his game…But Drew can help him out by calling plays for him, I like when they flash him in the post…I believe that Drew made Marvin go to the bench only because josh would have probaly got mad ..Marvin is clearly a better fit at the sf than Josh..

drmaryb (*_*)

December 23rd, 2010
10:04 am

That Foul was Offensive!

We have enough scorers on the 1st unit without Marvin.
We need Offense from the 2nd unit – where Marvin is an impact.

We need Defense – Period! From 1 – 12.

slimjr

December 23rd, 2010
10:12 am

Marvin at the 3 will not even get you to the ECF!

Marvin for Candice Parker!
Sund=Knight

Fundamentals

December 23rd, 2010
10:14 am

It was not a bad pick

That’s true, but only when Marvin shows up. He doesn’t always do that? Many nights he misses shots, won’t show the aggression and frankly, he isn’t reliable. You’ve cried on here for weeks like you’re Marvin’s grandmother. I agree, the kid’s got talent, but we can’t wait on him or baby him. He’s got to be ready. He’s shown progress this season. He’s showing effort. He actually cared when he got benched. Can he continue that progression?

Winning is the goal here. I don’t care if Joe, Jamal, Marvin, Josh & Al all average 10 pts and no one is an All Star. I think some of them care more about their stats and All Star bids at times than they do winning. That’s why we see the “chemistry” issues. When they play 100% team ball, they’re unstoppable.

Trade any one of them to a scrub team where they get touches any of them easily puts up All Star numbers, AKA Joe Johnson. Problem is they’re not Elite, Superstar players on an All Star laden team. They’re all excellent TEAM players.

Now that Joe has a surrounding cast he’s no longer the work horse All Star. He’s part of a team. Everyone on the team has to step up, or we lose when it counts. Hence the past 3 seasons.

Either we play like a team or we ship someone outta here so we can “feature” our “All Star” talent. Problem is we don’t have a real “All Star” on the roster. TEAM and WINNING is what matters, not stats, not All Stars, not prestige. Until we get it, we just won’t get it, got it?

slimjr

December 23rd, 2010
10:17 am

This team is going to get smoked in the playoffs again..

Sund=Knight

Fundamentals

December 23rd, 2010
10:19 am

drmaryb

LD features 1-2 starters consistently with the second unit. Marvin get’s plently of opportunities to be that punch along with the 2nd unit, whether he starts or not. Same for any of our other starters. We need our players to focus on the win column. Play solid D, keep up the motion offense. Take the best shot possible and ride who’s hot on a particular night. Some nights it’s Joe, others Josh, others Al, others Marvin. It shouldn’t matter. Winning should matter.

Defense, rebounding and knocking down the open shot in the flow of the offense will take us to that next level. Like Marvin, the Hawks aren’t consistent in any department for more than 10-12 games.

slimjr

December 23rd, 2010
10:23 am

“When they play 100% team ball, they’re unstoppable.”

Yeah, until they meet up with the Celtics,Utah,San Antonio,Lakers,Miami, Phoenix, Houston,Dallas…………………………………………………………………………..Yawn…………..

Sund=Knight

O'Brien

December 23rd, 2010
10:34 am

Is it coincidence that Teague’s rise in confidence comes with Jamal being out? I dont think so. 2 reasons why we should trade Jamal (imo).

1) JC2 will get PT 2) Teague will play better.

With Damien backing up Marvin, Mo Evans and JC2 can hold down the backup SG spot. And with Marvin coming off the bench sometimes, we wont be as dependent on Jamal’s scoring.

Get him outta here.

Rev in Tampa

December 23rd, 2010
10:38 am

drmaryb (*_*) ,

I had to go take a cold shower after your 8:08am post!

Rev in Tampa

December 23rd, 2010
10:40 am

It was not a bad pick,

My attitude toward Marvin is “whatever…” I will care about his feelings when he starts caring more about this team. If coming off the bench will mean more “touches” (as you say) then he should be happy that he is being put in a spot where he can be more productive. That stat that Fundamentals put forward (Hawks are 12-2 when Marvin scores 10+) is telling.

I’m surprised, frankly, that Marvin has enough emotional juice to get upset at being benched for the start of the game.

There are several words in this post that are typically used as double entendre; so to avoid possible embarrassment I’ll note that there was no homo, pause, or whatever intended.

Rufus1

December 23rd, 2010
10:40 am

Marvin Willams…14 double figure scoring games in 27.

Fundamentals

December 23rd, 2010
10:44 am

O’Brien – I agree, scoring isn’t the issue anymore it’s defense and rebounding. With that said is Gerald Wallace a good fit for Jamal? Would his addition be enough on D to make everyone happy?

From there can you afford to deal ZaZa and Mo for a PG prospect? Who do you like out there?

Rev in Tampa

December 23rd, 2010
10:49 am

O’Brien,

I co-sign your 10:34am post. Teague has stepped up his whole game with Jamal being out.

JayD

December 23rd, 2010
10:52 am

Marvin scores double digits when he gets shots (as soon as Jamal comes back he won’t get them). People don’t seem to understand – There is a finite number of points/shots in a game. Everybody won’t avg 20ppg – That would mean the Hawks would avg around 120 a night – not going to happen. I for one am glad that he is not happy with a demotion – no competitor should be. I am however happy with his professionalism (imagine if it were Josh).

Rufus1

December 23rd, 2010
10:52 am

@O’Brien..co-sign 10:34am post

O'Brien

December 23rd, 2010
10:53 am

More reasons to trade Jamal. Marvin is playing better, and trading Jamal might bring us back a center or improved perimeter defense.

As for Orlando, I would definitely be in the Melo sweepstakes. He dominates the ball a lot, and his defense is soft, but he can create his own shot, and imagine the pressure he would take off D12.

Plus D12 would be there to clean up a lot of the defensive breakdowns

Before the trade deadline, I think Orlando will make more moves, because I dont think the team they have now is good enough to beat the Celtics (when healthy).

SteveW

December 23rd, 2010
10:53 am

Marvin is only scoring more because Jamal is out. He averaged 14 pts. per game the season before Jamal got here. There are only so many shots available per night. With JJ and Jamal out, Marvin scored 26 because we needed him to. And that with a hurt knee I may add.

Put Lamar Odom on a flunky team and he averages 25 and 10+ every night. Put Kevin Love on a good team and he averages maybe 12 and 10. The best players don’t always have the best stats, depends on the team.

Ghost of Goose Givens

December 23rd, 2010
10:56 am

Hear you bashing the Marvin, but for the last five games he has really picked it up…averaging nearly 16 points a game, higher shooting percentage, steals, rebounds, etc…making some clutch shots…show some love for the high draft pick errant!

drmaryb (*_*)

December 23rd, 2010
10:56 am

Down Boy!

Rev in Tampa, Ha Ha! You are so silly. (*_*). You’re gonna, need a cold shower and a sledge hammer to knock you out! drmaryb ain’t no joke.

SteveW

December 23rd, 2010
10:57 am

Now in my previous post, I’m not saying Marvin is a great player or anything, don’t get me wrong, but I’m sure on a flunky team where he’s the 1st-3rd option, he averages 17-20 per night and 9 boards a game. Look at Troy Murphy with the Pacers last year. And look at him behind 2 other PF’s on the Nets this year. The stats are night and day.

Rev in Tampa

December 23rd, 2010
10:57 am

Is that you SteveW, or has ‘it was not a bad pick’ hi-jacked your blog-name?

Just funnin’

O'Brien

December 23rd, 2010
10:58 am

JayD,

Chills averaged double figures when he was here, and he NEVER had shots call for him.

Fundamentals,

I would trade Marvin for Gerald Wallace, but I would not trade Jamal for him.