Hawks 98, Cavs 84
Greetings, all-
Sorry this is a little late. I wanted to get out of the arena media work room so the poor gents who have to wait on me to leave so they can lock up could get home a little earlier than normal, and then once I got home, I was futzing around a little bit.
Anyway, I confess I don’t have a ton to offer you. We found out about the Atlanta Spirit settlement right after the first quarter, and I spent much of the rest of the game helping out on a story about that, so I didn’t get to watch much of the game itself. I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m asking you to feel sorry for me because I’m not. Just explainin’ is all. It sounds like it was actually a pretty impressive second half.
Anyway, a brief thought on the settlement. I saw some entries on the blog about how this might affect the team. My guess is not much. One point that Bruce Levenson made is that he’s never had a player or coach or any Hawks or Thrashers staff member ask about how the lawsuit was going. It’s not like it was hanging over anyone’s heads, except for those directly involved, I presume.
It’s worth noting that to buy Steve Belkin out, of course, the ownership group had to give him money to go away, so presumably the shoe box with all the cash in it just got lighter. It’s conceivable that with the settlement out of the way, the Spirit group will be better able to attract investors, which they need. However, I think you’ll agree that this doesn’t likely strike most as a terrific investment. Both teams are having trouble drawing despite both performing fairly well.
I guess this would strike the more bold as a great time to invest in that the Thrashers certainly seem like they’re on the way up and the Hawks figure to be competitive for the near term. But, then, there’s a pretty long history of people not buying tickets that you kind of have to get around.
Anyway, on to the game.
Team was very flat to start. Larry Drew said he’d told the team at shootaround and then before the game to be wary of coming out slow. 1) They’d just beaten Orlando. 2) They were at home. 3) Cleveland is very easy to look past. 4) It’s almost Christmas.
Despite all that – or maybe because of it – they were still not into it at all. It picked up a lot in the second quarter, I thought, and then Drew said he talked to the team at the half, and that’s when the game changed.
Obviously, Joe Johnson’s best game since coming back from surgery. He said it was one of his best games of the season, saying he hasn’t felt in rhythm much this season. Drew said he called a lot of plays for him and that Johnson was playing with confidence. I haven’t seen a ton of games, but I can’t recall one in which Johnson had such a height advantage over the guy guarding him.
Didn’t get to talk to Marvin Williams afterwards, but a great game, evidently. Perhaps the not starting really did get under his skin. I’ll say this — he invariably is in a good mood and has a good attitude so I was a little surprised at how much not starting Monday bothered him. If that was the bee in his bonnet tonight, maybe it’s a stick that Larry Drew can use with him. As for how often he’d go with Jason Collins at 5, I’m not sure, but I imagine it’d be every time they play someone with a dominant center.
Some Drew quotes:
“We tried to exploit some mismatches that we thought were to our advantage. That’s the way we have to play. That’s the way we want to play. As I told the guys, we have enough play sets that we can get into different things where teams can’t lock in on us. Certainly, when you see what you think is an advantageous matchup you’ve got to go right to it and that’s what we did tonight.”
On the second half:
“Didn’t do a whole lot as far as any type of adjustments, but what we did was I thought we did thing sa lot harder we were fighting through screens a lot harder. We were making a conscious effort of boxing out. We were pushing the basketball off the boards and when we got out there and started running, that’s when we were at our best.”
From reading the game thread — I really wish I’d heard “dagger in the coffin.” Thanks for sharing that.
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287 comments Add your comment
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
1:19 am
Thanks, Ken, for the recap. I would love to hear exactly how Marvin expressed his displeasure at not starting. I can’t believe he would feel he has the right to start after the way he disappears for stretches of games. What do the coaches say to him when he is in the midst of his disappearing act? I can only believe that they would be in his face. But his surprise and irritation makes me think he has never yet been held accoutable.
The Truth
December 23rd, 2010
1:20 am
“Team was very flat to start. Larry Drew said he’d told the team at shootaround and then before the game to be wary of coming out slow. 1) They’d just beaten Orlando. 2) They were at home. 3) Cleveland is very easy to look past. 4) It’s almost Christmas”
On LD’s #4 point:
Wishing all you bloggers a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! (I’m out)
Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmEMcWFa0v8&feature=related
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
1:22 am
“accountable” – My irritatio at Marvi made me leave out the “n’s”
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
1:45 am
How about Jamal, and Mo’ and a 2nd pick for Rip Hamilton and Will Bynum? Rip wants out of Detroit it’s reported. The salaries match up.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
1:46 am
LD seems to be unlocking Marvin and Teague. Now if he can unlock ZaZa, we’ve got a shot.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
1:51 am
Reports are the Magic may be shipping J Richardson to the Bobcats for Gerald Wallace, or to the Nuggets with some pieces for a 1 year rental on ‘Melo. Both J Richardson and ‘Melo have expiring contracts. Interesting to say the least.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
1:55 am
Another J Richardson scenario floating is Diaw and Diop for J Richardson.
The Nets have the best ‘Melo pieces, but they’re not doing anything unless ‘Melo commits to sign. Favors, Murphy, and 2 1st picks (the Nets have 5 1st picks the next 2 years), and they’re reportedly willing to throw in more 1st picks for Harrington and Billups. They would have to throw in more players for that to work under the cap, but that’s the reporting on an NBA site.
Jamillion
December 23rd, 2010
2:07 am
Hey i love rips game. It works you. Plus he plays defense. I’m all for it if we can get a point or center. Yea wish LD a switch the line up and start teague when we face good pgs
Clyde
December 23rd, 2010
2:58 am
Fire Sund
Free Jordan Crawford
Jamillion
December 23rd, 2010
3:02 am
Some good points to be had.Could be mo williams,t j ford, calderon, ridnour,baron davis,udrih, mike conley, or bill ups. All these trades can be made cause these teams are losers wishing to shed salary plus they aren’t in luv with these players
Jamillion
December 23rd, 2010
3:07 am
Another good trade bibby mo and jamal for mo williams and jamison. While trading zaza to charlotte for tyrus thomas.Shores up our bench and gives us a strong team. Mj a go for this by saying za za has play off experience or some dumb ish. Bench mw jt jc2 aj twin damien powell. Very solid
Jamillion
December 23rd, 2010
3:14 am
And to show you jordan a go for it he’s trying to get j rich back for the same player he traded him for and plus he brought back kwame brown. He gives way players-wish he had a good point cause he in luv with marvin.
Double Zero Eight
December 23rd, 2010
7:52 am
It appears that most bloggers are in agreement that the
Hawks’ current roster is not capable of winning the eastern
conference. Since the lawsuit has been settled, let’s hope
that we can trade for the mssing pieces.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 23rd, 2010
8:08 am
Inside Peanut Butter – Outside Jelly!
Sautee said this:
“We need to take EVERY SHOT in the paint. They have no shot blocking.
Yeah, Al I like your jumper. Take it the F inside”
Amen Bruh! I’ve been singing that for months and ain’t nobody gave me no Grammy! Mix it up! Bump & Grind! I wanna feel some body heat and friction from these BIG 4 & 5’s! Bump That Jelly Game – I Like it Hard and Raw And Real!
Ok drmaryb … calm down! Its too early in the morning for all that!
Or, Is It?
Wink-Wink!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 23rd, 2010
8:12 am
So Sue Me!
After 6 plus years of infighting? Who cares about a millionaire’s law suit?
They can all go F themselves for all I care!
What about these Hawks! If, we had a Super-Star? They would have no problems selling tickets in Atlanta. People ’round here look for things to do and are trendy! Sorry, but The Hawks? Have NOT been a TREND!
Go get us somebody and we will ALL cum!
It was not a bad pick
December 23rd, 2010
9:02 am
Rev in Tampa
Marvin only disapears when he is not getting touches and the hawks are not passing the ball…Lately Marvin has been getting touches and he has been producing…you cannot score the ball if you never receive it..
Oldtimer
December 23rd, 2010
9:08 am
Good game last night. Hawks finishing the week better after demoralizing loss to NJ. Seems like JJ is getting his touch back. Need a few more games like that. If we can get Jamal back, we may be able to put a winning streak together. Will Chicago ever lose?
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 23rd, 2010
9:12 am
“People ’round here look for things to do and are trendy!”
I agree with this. ATL is just not the place where people are going to come out in bunches and support something dull, boring, stagnant, or “old news” just to show love for the home team.
It was all nice when the overachieving, high flying Hawks we’re an 8th seed looking to take down the big bad Celtics in the 1st Round. However, after a couple years of finishing “right below” the pack of elites and currently slipping further down the middle of the pack, it’s just not interesting enough to draw the fans out in the A. They need to make a move that brings in a big name, or helps mold a team that seriously can contend for the east.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
9:17 am
Merry Christmas Everyone. I hope everyone gets some good time with family this weekend. I’m praying the Z-Pack makes my wife better in time for her family Christmas. Seems there’s some sort of bug that isn’t quite the flu going around my neck of the woods. High fever, congestion, chills, fatigue…I pray no one else gets it.
Seems like Teague’s confidence is on the rise. He might just be there by Feb if his minutes continue to remain consistent or increase slightly.
Marvin has been better this year than many before. He’s still not meeting his potential, but he is starting to show up most every game. I kept saying – give LD till Feb. Maybe he can unlock Marvin’s potential. No one can say he hasn’t been giving Marvin the opportunity to shine.
Joe definitely looked great last night. Smiling, shooting freely, enjoying himself. Maybe I was wrong on the elbow. Hopefully he’ll use the 3 days rest to hone in his jumper and be ready for the stretch run. Last night was the first time Joe has seemed like Joe since mid-season last year. I think folks underestimate what this kid can do if he’s healthy. I think he’s gotta learn to trust his teammates. They’ve grown alot since last year.
The TPE, Mo and Etan would be useful to shop for teams looking to clear contracts. Just make sure we need them long term when we get them. I’d be very careful dealing away JC1 too quickly. I’ve been playing with the trade machine alot, but can’t seem to find a way to deal ZaZa, Mo, Etan & the TPE for the help we need.
MC – what are the rules in releasing players? What can we do to be ready to pick up some talent in Feb? Last year we had a prime opportunity and we signed Rio before it started.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
9:21 am
It was not a bad pick – the past 5 games Marvin has been hitting the open shot when he gets it. If he continues to be reliable, your boy will see the rock more often. He’s gotta be consistent. He’s gotta show up every night. When he does the team will respond like they have lately.
I loved the responses from the entire team when Marvin jammed it a few times this season. Shows just how much the team wants to see Marvin unlock his potentitial. Your boy has the potential to be the ultimate glue guy for this team or be the guy that makes sure we fall apart.
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 23rd, 2010
9:22 am
As much as we like to poke fun at Marvin, there’s some truth to what “It was not a bad pick” just said.
Look at the game logs and notice all the games where Marvin’s took a double digit amount of shots this season,
Here are his point totals
“17, 16, 26, 15, 22, 15, 17, 22″
He needs to assert himself.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
9:28 am
Marvin’s energy and effort is just as contagious as Smoove’s. He gets looks and touches, but honestly doesn’t act on them every game. When he does and if he converts the attempt the team feeds on it. When he scores at least 15 we almost always win. He’s the glue guy. He’s gotta realize how important it is to bring it every night. He’s got to realize how important hitting those limited jumpers are to the morale of the team.
J from the A
December 23rd, 2010
9:31 am
“No. I wasn’t cool with it man,” said Williams to HOOPSWORLD about being benched. “It was something different. I’ve been starting here since my second year here, but it was a choice he (Drew) felt like he had to make and I had to live with it. I don’t know if he’ll ever make that change again and I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. But like I said, I’ve been a starter pretty much since I’ve been here but he chose to make that change and I have to live with it.”
J from the A
December 23rd, 2010
9:32 am
FROM AJC:
“I’ll be honest with you,” Williams said. “I didn’t like it, but I have to live with it.”
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 23rd, 2010
9:32 am
The Hawks are 12-2 when Marvin scores in double digits.
J from the A
December 23rd, 2010
9:32 am
Sorry left out some of the pertinent AJC stuff:
“He was a real pro and I didn’t expect anything different from him,” Drew said.
Drew noted some advantages to coming off the bench: Williams would be more of a scoring option with the backups and he could get a feel for the game before going in. Williams needs a little more convincing.
Said Williams, “You do what you have to do for the team.”
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
9:50 am
Marvin needs to realize we’re 12-2 when he scores double digits, not 12-2 when he starts. That’s the real story here. If we get a quality C to help Collins and thus move Horford and Smoove up a lost, Marvin will become permenant off the bench unless he can outcompete Smoove. Does he not see that writing on the wall? If he wants to start he best start producing NIGHTLY.
Maybe it is all in accountability from the coach to the players? If we can get a double double out of Marvin, how can we get D out of Bibby? If we had both we’d be ECF bound, no doubt.
It was not a bad pick
December 23rd, 2010
9:55 am
I would be mad also, Marvin was drafted #2 and can be a 20 ppg scorer if given the shots, but instead he is asked to be basically a catch and shoot type player, he can play with his back to the basket and drive also.Al has got a lot better with his shot.. Josh should have been moved to the bench, I like him but he takes bad shots, but he might have Power bomb Drew if sent to the bench..I hope when Jamal come back, Marvin still get plays called for him..
It was not a bad pick
December 23rd, 2010
10:00 am
Fundamentals
Maybe this will make him more aggresive..He has to learn to play his game…But Drew can help him out by calling plays for him, I like when they flash him in the post…I believe that Drew made Marvin go to the bench only because josh would have probaly got mad ..Marvin is clearly a better fit at the sf than Josh..
drmaryb (*_*)
December 23rd, 2010
10:04 am
That Foul was Offensive!
We have enough scorers on the 1st unit without Marvin.
We need Offense from the 2nd unit – where Marvin is an impact.
We need Defense – Period! From 1 – 12.
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
10:12 am
Marvin at the 3 will not even get you to the ECF!
Marvin for Candice Parker!
Sund=Knight
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
10:14 am
It was not a bad pick
That’s true, but only when Marvin shows up. He doesn’t always do that? Many nights he misses shots, won’t show the aggression and frankly, he isn’t reliable. You’ve cried on here for weeks like you’re Marvin’s grandmother. I agree, the kid’s got talent, but we can’t wait on him or baby him. He’s got to be ready. He’s shown progress this season. He’s showing effort. He actually cared when he got benched. Can he continue that progression?
Winning is the goal here. I don’t care if Joe, Jamal, Marvin, Josh & Al all average 10 pts and no one is an All Star. I think some of them care more about their stats and All Star bids at times than they do winning. That’s why we see the “chemistry” issues. When they play 100% team ball, they’re unstoppable.
Trade any one of them to a scrub team where they get touches any of them easily puts up All Star numbers, AKA Joe Johnson. Problem is they’re not Elite, Superstar players on an All Star laden team. They’re all excellent TEAM players.
Now that Joe has a surrounding cast he’s no longer the work horse All Star. He’s part of a team. Everyone on the team has to step up, or we lose when it counts. Hence the past 3 seasons.
Either we play like a team or we ship someone outta here so we can “feature” our “All Star” talent. Problem is we don’t have a real “All Star” on the roster. TEAM and WINNING is what matters, not stats, not All Stars, not prestige. Until we get it, we just won’t get it, got it?
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
10:17 am
This team is going to get smoked in the playoffs again..
Sund=Knight
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
10:19 am
drmaryb
LD features 1-2 starters consistently with the second unit. Marvin get’s plently of opportunities to be that punch along with the 2nd unit, whether he starts or not. Same for any of our other starters. We need our players to focus on the win column. Play solid D, keep up the motion offense. Take the best shot possible and ride who’s hot on a particular night. Some nights it’s Joe, others Josh, others Al, others Marvin. It shouldn’t matter. Winning should matter.
Defense, rebounding and knocking down the open shot in the flow of the offense will take us to that next level. Like Marvin, the Hawks aren’t consistent in any department for more than 10-12 games.
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
10:23 am
“When they play 100% team ball, they’re unstoppable.”
Yeah, until they meet up with the Celtics,Utah,San Antonio,Lakers,Miami, Phoenix, Houston,Dallas…………………………………………………………………………..Yawn…………..
Sund=Knight
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
10:34 am
Is it coincidence that Teague’s rise in confidence comes with Jamal being out? I dont think so. 2 reasons why we should trade Jamal (imo).
1) JC2 will get PT 2) Teague will play better.
With Damien backing up Marvin, Mo Evans and JC2 can hold down the backup SG spot. And with Marvin coming off the bench sometimes, we wont be as dependent on Jamal’s scoring.
Get him outta here.
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
10:38 am
drmaryb (*_*) ,
I had to go take a cold shower after your 8:08am post!
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
10:40 am
It was not a bad pick,
My attitude toward Marvin is “whatever…” I will care about his feelings when he starts caring more about this team. If coming off the bench will mean more “touches” (as you say) then he should be happy that he is being put in a spot where he can be more productive. That stat that Fundamentals put forward (Hawks are 12-2 when Marvin scores 10+) is telling.
I’m surprised, frankly, that Marvin has enough emotional juice to get upset at being benched for the start of the game.
There are several words in this post that are typically used as double entendre; so to avoid possible embarrassment I’ll note that there was no homo, pause, or whatever intended.
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
10:40 am
Marvin Willams…14 double figure scoring games in 27.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
10:44 am
O’Brien – I agree, scoring isn’t the issue anymore it’s defense and rebounding. With that said is Gerald Wallace a good fit for Jamal? Would his addition be enough on D to make everyone happy?
From there can you afford to deal ZaZa and Mo for a PG prospect? Who do you like out there?
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
10:49 am
O’Brien,
I co-sign your 10:34am post. Teague has stepped up his whole game with Jamal being out.
JayD
December 23rd, 2010
10:52 am
Marvin scores double digits when he gets shots (as soon as Jamal comes back he won’t get them). People don’t seem to understand – There is a finite number of points/shots in a game. Everybody won’t avg 20ppg – That would mean the Hawks would avg around 120 a night – not going to happen. I for one am glad that he is not happy with a demotion – no competitor should be. I am however happy with his professionalism (imagine if it were Josh).
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
10:52 am
@O’Brien..co-sign 10:34am post
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
10:53 am
More reasons to trade Jamal. Marvin is playing better, and trading Jamal might bring us back a center or improved perimeter defense.
As for Orlando, I would definitely be in the Melo sweepstakes. He dominates the ball a lot, and his defense is soft, but he can create his own shot, and imagine the pressure he would take off D12.
Plus D12 would be there to clean up a lot of the defensive breakdowns
Before the trade deadline, I think Orlando will make more moves, because I dont think the team they have now is good enough to beat the Celtics (when healthy).
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
10:53 am
Marvin is only scoring more because Jamal is out. He averaged 14 pts. per game the season before Jamal got here. There are only so many shots available per night. With JJ and Jamal out, Marvin scored 26 because we needed him to. And that with a hurt knee I may add.
Put Lamar Odom on a flunky team and he averages 25 and 10+ every night. Put Kevin Love on a good team and he averages maybe 12 and 10. The best players don’t always have the best stats, depends on the team.
Ghost of Goose Givens
December 23rd, 2010
10:56 am
Hear you bashing the Marvin, but for the last five games he has really picked it up…averaging nearly 16 points a game, higher shooting percentage, steals, rebounds, etc…making some clutch shots…show some love for the high draft pick errant!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 23rd, 2010
10:56 am
Down Boy!
Rev in Tampa, Ha Ha! You are so silly. (*_*). You’re gonna, need a cold shower and a sledge hammer to knock you out! drmaryb ain’t no joke.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
10:57 am
Now in my previous post, I’m not saying Marvin is a great player or anything, don’t get me wrong, but I’m sure on a flunky team where he’s the 1st-3rd option, he averages 17-20 per night and 9 boards a game. Look at Troy Murphy with the Pacers last year. And look at him behind 2 other PF’s on the Nets this year. The stats are night and day.
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
10:57 am
Is that you SteveW, or has ‘it was not a bad pick’ hi-jacked your blog-name?
Just funnin’
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
10:58 am
JayD,
Chills averaged double figures when he was here, and he NEVER had shots call for him.
Fundamentals,
I would trade Marvin for Gerald Wallace, but I would not trade Jamal for him.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 23rd, 2010
11:03 am
Fundamentals said this:
“Defense, rebounding and knocking down the open shot in the flow of the offense will take us to that next level.”
Hello? Can You Hear Me Now?
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:03 am
Suggestion for the team:
1) Next time we start big, start ZaZa.
Things I wish we had done this past off season:
1) Sign Shaq instead of Collins (and I like Collins).
2) Sign Dampier instead of Etan
3) Sign Wilkens instead of Sy
4) Sign Jarvis Hayes.
Then we’re talking on this blog that if Teague develops, we might win it all. Instead we’re left with hoping again. But Shaq and Smoove may have been a toxic, complaining combination, so you go to war with who you’ve got. We’ll see what happens.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
11:06 am
I love Gerald’s knack for crashing the boards and playing physical D. He always seem to score on when called upon. I know we keep talking Centers and PG, but Wallace might be one to pick up?
I kept working on ways to get Camby or Pryzbilla, Andre Miller and Gerald Wallace out of some combination of Marvin, Jamal, Mo, ZaZa to hopefully send Marvin & Jamal to the home folks and to improve our team?
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:06 am
Rev – I think my last post on Marvin cleared it up!
I would trade Jamal for Gerald Wallace in 1/2 second, and I’d even through in JP or Etan to sweeten the deal.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:09 am
I keep wondering if we are playing Mo’ over Wilkens to improve his trade value. And I wonder if Jamal is “hurt” so he won’t get traded at the deadline? And I also wonder if we’re not playing to Marvin’s strength’s more to increase his tradeability? Just curious. I know they do they sort of think in baseball, showcase a player so his trade value will increase.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:12 am
Fundamentals – Would you do Bibby and Mo’ for Andre Miller? I would. Then Jamal for Gerald Wallace, in a heartbeat, and throw in JP to teach the Bobcats how to win championships blah, blah, blah. Now I really like our team.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
11:12 am
Wonder if Jamal’s back is as injured as his toe was?
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:14 am
The trade I’d really like to pull off is Bibby and Mo’ for Lou Williams. Lou and Teague at the point would be a great young combination. And Lou’s cheap, like 3m per for a few more years or something. Then do Jamal for Gerald Wallace. You just got much younger and more talented with those 2 trades. Look good for the future.
JChikara
December 23rd, 2010
11:15 am
The Hawks need to realize to buy into what Larry Drew is selling. That is, the team plays better when everyone gets a chance to make shots. It’s no longer “rely on JJ to shoot on every possession” and I think Marvin’s ability to score is a definite plus coming off the bench. He matches up better again second-tier talent and will be a plus with Jamal out of action.
I know a lot of people think that it was easier to start Marvin instead of Josh, but remember this: Josh is able to play better defense and it gives the starting lineup more opportunities for JJ and Horford (Atlanta’s most reliable scorers) to pace the offense.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:15 am
I do think Jamal’ back is injured, but the thought of feigning injury to avoid a trade has crossed my mind in his case.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:16 am
This team has a fragile psyche, so I know we have to make moves based on chemistry as well as talent.
Ken Sugiura
December 23rd, 2010
11:18 am
to address a couple things, i do think teague is being more assertive with jamal crawford out. it’s not a knock at all on Crawford, it’s just the reality of the situation. after the boston game, teague said something along the lines that, without johnson and crawford, he felt like he had to be more aggressive. i think the next step is for him to feel like he can be the same playmaker with them on the court as he is without either on the floor with him.
fundamentals, i’m not sure what you’re getting at regarding jamal’s toe, but his back injury is legitimate, and backs, obviously, are not to be trifled with.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:20 am
Actually Lou is 6m per for the next 3 seasons (including this one). I still like him at that price.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:24 am
Ken Sigiura – Thanks for the update on Jamal’s back. I do wonder if it will hurt our opportunity to trade him before the deadline, or will it maybe encourage him to sign for less to stay with the Hawks (3 years 14 mill sounds about right for a 30+ year old back up shooting guard in this case). I still say he gets a 5 year 50m deal on the FA market unless the new CBA just kills it.
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:24 am
Or 5 years at 45m anyway for Jamal on the FA market.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
11:25 am
Thanks MC – I think it goes back to DuJuan Blair falling on him. He’s not been the same since, though he said immediately after he was fine.
LD is “unlocking” Teague it seems. Hopefully you’re idea is true MC. If the kid could continue to gain confidence he’ll start by the end of Feb.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
11:25 am
Oops – Thanks Ken.
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
11:28 am
Trading Marvin…
Trading Marvin doesn’t help the Hawks unless Bibby goes with him. Dribble penetration is our #1 problem….period. The Hawks problems are about Bibby and Jamals 4qt defense and the fact they can’t stop dribble penetration.
If we hold a team to 13pts in the 3rd qt with the bench, then the finishers give 27 in the 4th, that is the problem. Trading Marvin doesn’t change our problem, unless you take the “Bibby Bullet” out of LD’s gun. He like most people value offense too a fault…the Spurs game was a perfect example.
PARKER DOMINATED THE 4TH QT, BECAUSE BIBBY COULD NOT STOP HIM.
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
11:37 am
Is resigning Jamal a bad idea? (in my best GEICO guy commercial voice).
I think it is. Sooner or later, we will have to replace Bibby (if Teague is not the answer, then we will look elsewhere). And once we get a more traditional PG, we will not need Jamal to play backup PG.
Plus JC2 needs PT.
And Jamal will continue to hinder Teague’s development, his defense sucks, and why should we pay a backup SG the money Jamal wants when we are already paying JJ (our starting SG) $124 mil?
Especially if Jamal’s money can be used to address either the frontcourt or the perimeter defense.
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
11:43 am
SteveW,
We cannot afford to pay Marvin and Gerald Wallace. If we trade for Gerald, then Marvin needs to be dealt.
The Portland deal to make is Jamal for Rudy Fernandez and Pryzbilla (we can throw in Twin or a second round pick if they want).
I think Shaq would have co-existed with Smoove just fine, and I was hoping we would have signed him. We could have started Shaq/Horford/Smoove sometimes. And Shaq is a good passer too.
And marketing wise, the ASG would have sold more tickets, been on TV more etc.
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
11:46 am
SteveW,
I don’t think the Hawks are trying to feature any player for a trade because I don’t think they are planning any trades. Before the season I was excited about the possiblity of a trade or two happening to address the team’s imbalance, but I have come to believe that Sund is going to stick with who he’s got.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
11:49 am
OBrien – so you’d like:
Marvin for Gerald hoping MJ would want a UNC product
Jamal & ZaZa for Przbilla, Miller and Rudy? Not that they’d do it, but the salaries match.
tony
December 23rd, 2010
11:57 am
Belkin would of been the best choice to takeover the franchise because more than one owner will create confusion and disagreements. I was 100% with Belkin against bringing “fan basher” JJ to Atlanta. The guy is a playoff killer and doesn’t have a clue how to lead a team against the elite. It seems like we are stuck with him for along time unless a miracle happens.
This team need a pg with leadership ability and a coach who will let every player play his own position accordingly. Right now every player is playing the role of a pg, sg, sf, pf and c. I believe this GM can make the right decising without spending over the luxury tax but the fans have to be patient.
I know LD has done a decent job so far against sub-500 teams but I believe his motion offense will eventually fail because a true pg has to be allowed to create scoring opportunity for the team and control the tempo of the game in order for an offense to function properly.
When they realize that LD is not the right man for the job they need to hire Bill Laimbeer. Laimbeer is a winner and he has won everywhere he has been. We have a very good team even with JJ. However, this team needs strong leadership. I believe JJ would flourish if he had a teammate like his former teammate Steve Nash.
There are 3 pgs in the upcoming draft who have caught my attention, but the one who I like the most is Demetri McCamey of Illinois. This young man is going to be a star in the nba. He has Steve Nash leadership qualities. Demetri McCamey will fit in well with JJ and the rest of the team.
terrell
December 23rd, 2010
12:09 pm
Give us a good product and we’ll show up. Why spend your hard earn money to go to a game, when you never know what Hawks team is going to show up? Might be one of those nights when they “just didnt have the energy”. Thats why I’d rather watch on TV. At least I can turn it off if it’s one of those kinda nights. Btw, I like the aggressiveness I saw from Teague last night. Needs to learn how to finish, but the agresssiveness was there. Marvin actually showed up too. Wish he would’ve waited until the Hornets game to have his 1 good game of the month though, going against CP3 and all. lol!
The Real Hawk
December 23rd, 2010
12:17 pm
Raise your hand if you care Marvin is unhappy coming off the bench.
Yeah, that’s what I thought. Grow up dude.
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
12:20 pm
Wow!!! Marvin’s mad about coming off the bench. Better be glad he plays for the Hawks, because he might be out of the league if he played for another team.
Marvin has looked pretty good the last couple of games, but let’s also realize who we have played. When he can consistently perform against top level teams (Orlando had not played together), finish strong against smaller players, take advantage of mismatches, and hit those wide open shots then I will be convinced. I stated three years ago that Marvin is the key, and that is why its been so depressing watching this guy underperform for 5 years. His role on this team is to hit Open shots, defend the top wing players, and help rebound. This season he is averaging 10ppg and 5 rpg. Hopefully he can keep up this run, but as I have said for the last three years, I won’t be holding my breath.
Again to all of you who think that our defense is our only problem, I suggest that you are wrong. When we play top level teams, and they can really gameplan against us in the playoffs, we can not score. In the Orlando series last years we averaged 82ppg. In the Cleveland series the year before, we averaged 78 ppg. Scoring is one of our main problems in the playoffs. If you think that Marvin can be depended on to be a scorer agianst top level defensive teams, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you. The only consistent scorers on this team are Joe, Jamal and Horford. Josh is really not a scorer. If you play the Hawks in the playoffs, you simply shut down Joe by doubling him, let Horford get his, and make Marvin and Bibby beat you. I don’t have that much confidence in Marvin. You should only trade Jamal if you are able to replace his scoring, or you really won’t be able to score in the playoffs. Making a statement that Marvin can replace Jamal’s scoring after a 4 or 5 game run by Marvin is absurd.
It was not a bad pick
December 23rd, 2010
12:26 pm
Rod from College Park
He had 26 against Boston best d in the nba…i said if he get touches he will produce…
drmaryb (*_*)
December 23rd, 2010
12:33 pm
Can I Get an Amen!
…. from the congregation?
Rev are u married? Just wonderin’
lukas
December 23rd, 2010
12:35 pm
It was not a bad pick,
I guess it will take another 6 years of “dissapearing act” for you to see the reality about Marvin. He should be coming from the bench.
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
12:42 pm
Marvin at the 3 will not get you to the ECF. TOO SOFT..Can’t D his own shadow..
terrell
December 23rd, 2010
12:43 pm
not a bad pick, So Marvin’s a str8 baller waiting to happen, but he cant get any touches on a team that has Joe Johnson as its superstar? Wow! So why didnt he have career nights when Joe was out again?? I’m waiting? And please dont say that the #2 pick couldnt get enough touches because he was playing with the great Jamal Crawford. Or the HOFamer Josh Smith. Please! All Star players take over games. Especially when they’re on the floor for 35 + minutes like your boy Marvin usually is. Cant get enough touches my azz. WHEN YOU MAKE SHOTS YOUR TEAMMATES WILL FIND YOU. OTHERWISE YOU’LL BE HANGING OUT AT THE 3 PT LINE LIKE A HOOKER WAITING ON A JON.
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
12:46 pm
RICK SUND= BILLY KNIGHT(Worst GM in Hawks History)
He’s going with Billy’s team who peak last year.It’s a wrap..Going to get real ugly in Feb.
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
12:48 pm
Marvin For Candice Parker
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
1:04 pm
“Give us a good product and we’ll show up. Why spend your hard earn money to go to a game, when you never know what Hawks team is going to show up?”
Kenny Smith last night on NBA TV referred to the Hawks, quote;” I don’t like watching bad basketball.” He’s been saying this for weeks now on TNT also…
That’s why the remote control works wonders. When we get bored with this boring a** team, go watch something else..Mookie would you please come back and play????
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
1:11 pm
@O’brien
The Jamal for Priz and Fernandez maybe the only deal the financial the Hawks would make….
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
1:22 pm
“WHEN YOU MAKE SHOTS YOUR TEAMMATES WILL FIND YOU. OTHERWISE YOU’LL BE HANGING OUT AT THE 3 PT LINE LIKE A HOOKER WAITING ON A JON.”
CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!
It was not a bad pick,
One game does not a season or a career make. Look at Marvin’s playoff numbers for his career. If you as a number #2 pick in the draft and a supposed star allow Flip Murray, and Jamal Crawford (who got no playing time the year before) to take your shots, then that should say everything that needs to be said. Don’t you think if your boy Marvin was that good, that he teamates would find him, just like they did Flip, and Jamal, and like they do Joe?
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
1:24 pm
I don’t like any trade with Rudy F in it. When a dude says he doesn’t want to be in the NBA, he’s not going to do anything but hinder a team.
Rev. – You could be right. Only time will tell about a trade.
Jamal’s salary offsets Gerald Wallace’s if you trade jamal for him. But maybe your talking about next season.
J from the A
December 23rd, 2010
1:26 pm
I am worried Portland wouldn’t trade Pryz or Camby w/o picking up a backup center. Perhaps they could arrange a trade for a back up center with another team.
If Andre Miller would be a good fit for the Hawks (and I am not sure he would be), I’d go for:
JC1
Zaza
MO
(pick maybe?)
FOR
Camby
Miller
If Miller isn’t a good fit for the Hawks, then a 3-way deal needs to be made:
Portland would still get
Zaza
Jamal Crawford
Hawks would get
Camby or Pryz
[maybe R. Fernadez]
quality PG or back up SF from another team (Lou Williams? Nocioni?)
Something along those lines at least.
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
1:27 pm
It was not a bad pick,
When the point guard Bibby was asked to comment on Marvin, he said something to the effect of Marvin is tall, and he can shoot free throws. If that is all that a vet on your team like Bibby has to say about you, that should tell the story.
J from the A
December 23rd, 2010
1:32 pm
Just an idea:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=247e4ow
Hawks get Camby, Lou Williams. Hawks give up Jamal Crawford, Mo Evans, Zaza Pachulia.
Doubt this trade would work, but it is probably in the ball park of something that might work.
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
1:46 pm
What 6 years of disappearings acts? You guys exaggerate like fiction writers. Marvin has had 1 bad year(2009-10)10.1pts a game.
2006-7)13.1, 5.3rbs
2007-8)14.8, 5.7rbs
2008-9)13.9, 6.3rbs
Now he is starting to find his offensive flow, you guys start talking about being the #2 pick again, something no one has argued about for 3 years. If you don’t like him that is fine, but don’t pretend like you are offering and objective basketball opinion.
Jamal Crawford couldn’t defend a one legged old lady with a hip replacement. He get 15pts a game but the person he is guarding, get 20pts, 7ast and another 5 hockey ast.
I will take the 6′9, solid defender and his 12pts vs the 6′5 defensive liability, and his 15pts. I know that Marvins defense is worth the 3 pts.
PS. JOSH Childress got BENCHED…..LOl They are trying to trade him after 2 month…Lol
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm
Marvin Williams Playoffs…
2007-8) 11.4pts
2008-9) Back injury 5pts
2009-10) 8.4pts
1.5 points below his season ave(except for the year he was injured)…That is because the teams in the playoffs are all good defensive teams.
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
2:12 pm
Rufus1,
Jamal Crawford does his job. His job is to come off the bench and provide scoring for his team, which he did better than anyone else in the league last year. He is known in this league as a scorer. Marvin is not known as anything but a great free throw shooter. Jack of all trades, master of none. Again, stop it with the Marvin’s man does not score nonsense. See all the Indiana games last year, Philly games, Lebron games….. He is an average defender, but poses no resitance against top NBA small forwards. You become an above average defender by locking people down, or intimidating scorers. Marvin poses no threat defensively. Again, Marvin’s man always ends up having to be guarded by Joe, so that should explain everything. When the game is on the line and we need to stop the Lebron’s, Pierce’s, Granger’s and Iggy’s of the world, Joe Johnson is the guy they call on, not Marvin.
Marvins Playoff averages:
07-08 -11.4ppg and 4rpg
08-09- 5.0 ppg and 1.5 rpg
09-10 – 8.4 ppg and 5.7 rpg
Josh Childress is on a team with better options at the 3. Would Marvin get time before Grant Hill, Vince Carter, Jared Dudley or Pietrus. I doubt it. All have made and name for themselves in the NBA and played at a very high level, except for Dudley, who is known as a true Defensive Specialist.
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
2:18 pm
Rufus1,
“1.5 points below his season ave(except for the year he was injured)…That is because the teams in the playoffs are all good defensive teams.”
So what’s your point? If he averaged 2 ppg and only made 1 ppg he would only be 1 point under his season average. If you play, it counts. Kobe played with broken fingers. Joe admitted that he was hurt last year also. It all counts. If you were that injured, don’t play. So based on your statement, Marvin’s scoring will drop against good defensive teams? My point exactly. All the more reason why Jamal is so improtant, because he can score against anybody, Marvin can’t.
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
2:27 pm
@Rod
Stop making excuses for Jchill….he got benched before the new players got there.
I have said to before No one can stop LBJ and JJ was guarding those players when they were scoring 30pts…You watch the games this year when Marvin SHUT THEM DOWN. You know who wasn’t on the court when that happened, JOE.
Jamal Makes 11mil a year(Marvin 7.5mil), get starters minutes, shots like 42% wants a 5 years and 50mil, is as bad on defense as you say Marvin is on offense and that is okay with you…..Really!!!! What is you logic, because Marvin was the #2??
kwooden1
December 23rd, 2010
2:31 pm
To hear Marvin talk about not being happy about coming off the bench was great news to me! Whatever it takes for Marvin to be assertive and play with aggression! If he misses his first two shots, he’s basically done for the day. He needs to consistantly have more of an effect on the game. He’ll never get over being picked so high and the draft, but he’s also not giving the money back so he’s got to live with his critics.
sam'l
December 23rd, 2010
2:47 pm
Gee, arent’ the repetitive bloggers getting shrill. trying to censor others and using crude language……probably time to censor yourself before you’re thrown out all together.
Things do change……Joe Johnson could be healthy, i hope….Jamal will come back, orlando for the moment is beatable….but their coaching staff does have something on the ball. to the point where they can see a situation, mesh with management come up with a plan and execute, and the first few days don’t count….because their players are going to be coached to become a cohesive unit…….
Gearon and who (Levenson?)….I would have loved to hear something like, “Now that that idiot Belkin is gone, we’re gonna find us a center and a real point guard, get as deep as Boston……and take the team over the top.” i didn’t hear that…..Really guys, if you want to fill the stands, that’s what you need. Maybe look at Josh and pry into the real reason he’s so inconsistent…….I suspect he’s got an entourage and a place to go party at 3 in the morning……
Damn…..such a good player too……
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
2:50 pm
Hey Duck, go play with the girls if your not happy dud….
northcyde
December 23rd, 2010
3:00 pm
“Jamal couldn’t defend a one-legged old lady with a hip replacement”.
Hilarious.
@ terrell . . . The Hawks the past 3 seasons posted a 90 – 33 record at home, and wom a whopping 34 home games last year ( 3rd best in franchise history ) . . . and people still only came out in droves to see the big name teams. And they actually came out LESS to see the 53-win Hawks in 09 – 10, than they did the 45-win Hawks in 08 – 09.
We’re a little behind the pace we were at last year, but at 19 – 12, I believe it qualifies as one of the top 10 best starts in franchise history.
The fact is that ATL only gets revved up to see stars, and not necessarily to see good basketball. What Kenny Smith says is crap. You don’t win 60% of your games, and play bad basketball. It may not be as exciting as people want to see, but we do win.
People have long wanted to play that Phoenix / Golden St. style of ball in ATL. But all the teams that truly win in this league, all seem to play rock solid defense. And if they only score 85 pts in a game, they can still beat you with stellar defense.
The ASG made a huge mistake by not bringing Shaq in. He was the “superstar” that the market would’ve came out to see, even if he doesn’t have “superstar talent” anymore.
But don’t act like if the Hawks started playing better, that people would come. You know better than that.
No . . for the Hawks, is going to have to take us at minimum to get to the Easter Conference Finals AND playing a hard fought 6 or 7 game series in it before losing . . or somehow come up with a miracle, and bring in a charismatic superstar ( in talent and personality ) . . to really bring people out.
If the Hawks played like the Spurs, and won like them, it still wouldn’t be an exciting enough product in ATL.
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
3:10 pm
Rufus1,
“Jamal Makes 11mil a year(Marvin 7.5mil), get starters minutes, shots like 42% wants a 5 years and 50mil, is as bad on defense as you say Marvin is on offense and that is okay with you…..Really!!!! What is you logic, because Marvin was the #2??”
Jamal does his job on a consistent basis, Marvin does not. Jamal has earned is money, Marvin has not. We did not trade for Jamal because of his defensive prowess. We traded for him to be instant offense off the bench, and back up Mike Bibby at the point, which he has done. Again Jamal is a scorer. Nique was a scorer also. Defense was never one of his strengths. We knew that when we traded for him.
I’m not making excuses for Chill’s. Really never liked his game either, but he was more effective than Marvin when he was here. He ended games for us not Marvin. He was a better defender than Marvin, and a better rebounder. Plus on top of all that, if you read the reports, Chills has been hurt this year also. Marvin shut down LBJ this year? Wow, I must have missed that game. (LOL)
If Joe was guarding those guys as you say, they also had to guard them. If Joe was guarding Lebron, and Lebron had 30 then Joe had 25, not 8. Plus Joe would make those guys work on the defensive end, Marvin won’t. They will be free to roam, and double guess who (Joe Johnson).
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
3:36 pm
@Rod
I said no one can stop LBJ.
Marvin has earned his money, he makes 7.5mil to be the teams #1 wing defender and give about 12pts and 5rebs a game.
I have no doubt that when Iggy, Gay and Grainger played against Marvin this year, he shut them down. those kind of defensive efforts are for more important to me…..than taking 15 shot to score 15pts.
northcyde
December 23rd, 2010
3:42 pm
As for Marvin, I do give him credit for stepping up and playing better with JJ and Jamal missing time this month. What he’s done this month, is start making shots early on in a game, like he used to.
But with Marvin, he simply has to make his mark on a game . . period. He can’t be a complete non-factor, like he’s prone to do sometimes. If the shot is off, play lockdown defense . . or really crash the boards. Just be a factor.
Don’t give people a reason to call you “invisible”.
hawkfan
December 23rd, 2010
4:08 pm
*on a side note: is Blake Griffin going to be in this year’s SLAM DUNK CONTEST? definitely will be a treat!
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
4:13 pm
*it all depends on where the ‘is’ is*
hawkfan,
are you making a statement or asking a question?
Rev in Tampa
December 23rd, 2010
4:15 pm
Sorry, hawkfan, I understand now.
By the way, who chooses who will be in the dunk contest? Do the contestants have to apply or audition? When are they chosen?
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
4:19 pm
“Marvin has earned his money, he makes 7.5mil to be the teams #1 wing defender and give about 12pts and 5rebs a game.”
He’s not the teams #1 wing defender again, never has been. When he was resigned by Sund, Sund stated he expected more out of Marvin. If you think 12 and 5 is ok, when you are left unguarded, and guarded by smaller players constantly, then that’s you. I would expect more. Can’t be put into numbers. He needs to take the #1 wing defender role from JJ and Josh, and make it his, he needs to develop some sort of post game with his size and length, needs to rebound better if we stay with the Josh, Horford, Marvin front line, he is just as big as Josh, and maybe an inch shorter than Horford, with bigger wingspan than both, and he needs to knock down open shots. The key word is CONSISTENT.
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
4:24 pm
Watching Chills amazes me. He had a perfect role here, he fit, but he thought he was so much more. Now he can’t even see the court. We signed another kid, gave him Chill’s number, w/o knowing that he too had an ego larger than his talent. Sad thing is he still gets minutes here in ATL, when he wouldn’t elsewhere. Is it the jersey that gives them the ego in ATL? Would it be better to have Childress or Mo or neither? Just thinking out loud? How bout you?
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
4:27 pm
Rod,
Marvin has the body to almost bang with any PF, but he can’t overpower a SF? He’s too slow to beat SF off the dribble. He’s not a lockdown defender? He can’t rebound effectively at 6′9″. He’s just now starting to hit shots. He’s not making his 7.5 mil. Its sad that any contribution from him almost guarantees a win. Imagine what this team would look like if “it was not a bad pick” was even 10% right about Marvin.
The kid is progressing…finally…but who will he become? Mr Invisible round 7 or Super Glue?
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
4:49 pm
Fundamentals,
As much as people say I hate on him, I would be estatic if the guy continued to play like he has played recently, but history tells me he won’t. It’s very hard to change your personality. Marvin does not have, what we used to call in College Park, that Killa. It’s what makes Kobe who he is, and makes most of the stars in the league who they are. It’s the desire to be the best, or to step on a guys throat when he’s down. Plus he is clumsy, and goofy. Never seen a great basketball player with both traits. I am a betting man, so my bet would be Mr. Invisible.
terrell
December 23rd, 2010
4:52 pm
Northcyde, I said a better product, not this same ole up and down team we’ve been watching for 6 years. And I dare you compare this group to the Spurs. They’ve got 2nd rdrs and undrafted guys tearin it up EVERY YEAR. We cant get out of the 1st rd with all 1st rd picks. No comparison there. And the Spurs win when it matters. And even if they lose, they play hard. None of that “we just didnt have the energy and effort out there tonight shizz”. Hell, I’d go to the Spurs game just to watch Pop outcoach somebody. Think I’m buying tickets to watch LD coach? Come on now. Not sayin we should blow the team up, but we need to make a trade. Do something. Make us believe they’re commited to winning. Just bring some excitement in here, and then maybe I’ll put down my remote. The ownership issue is solved. Now do something. Beating a few contenders might help too. This group just looks like their damm near maxed out. I love me some Hawks, dont get me wrong, but I wanna see a Championship before I’m dead and gone. lol!
RLP
December 23rd, 2010
4:54 pm
More fuel for the fire:
Compare Marvin’s numbers to Lamar Odum for their careers:
MPG -
Marvin 31.3
Lamar 35.9
FG% -
Marvin .453
Lamar .467
PPG
Marvin – 11.9
Lamar – 14.7
RB -
Marvin – 5.4
Lamar – 2.0
Height -
Marvin – 6′9”
Lamar – 6′10”
Current Salary -
Lamar – $8.2/yr
Marvin – $7.2/yr
LeBroom
December 23rd, 2010
4:58 pm
Let’s go San Antonio, take down Orlando tonight and give the Hawks some breathing room in the southeast division. I’d like the Suns to defeat the Heat also, but that is highly unlikely, so I’m not even going to get my hopes up on that.
terrell
December 23rd, 2010
5:00 pm
Lets see: Marvin or Lamar Odom? lol! NUMBERS LIE!
L-QUE
December 23rd, 2010
5:11 pm
RUFUS1 – I have to agree with you i watch Marvin hold Lebron down last year when he was in Cleveland as did Twin with Shag, we as bloggers can hope for all the players we like to come to Atlanta ,most wont solve our problem.Very few teams feature inside scoring to win ,BOSTON, MIAMI dont, they are good with any contribution from inside Atlanta needs back court scoring.JOSH&MARVIN are hybrid players, they can play the 3-4-5 spots like LEBRON,ODOM and a few other players, I long to see ATL bring in a scoring point, ascoring 2 this with the money we already paying JC1 he wants to go to NY or NJ we can sure us D HARRIS
Anthony
December 23rd, 2010
5:20 pm
I read these debates on Marvin and notice so many arguments about how Marvin doesn’t produce enough. I’m not defending Marvin, by any means, but you have to keep in mind that what you are asking for coming with a cost. On the defensive end, Marvin is pretty solid as it is, so I’m guessing you are mainly complaining about him not producing on the offensive end. For Marvin to average around 15 ppg or so, he would need more shot attempts. We already have 2 guys on this team (Joe and Jamal), who together consume about 30 of the team’s field goal attempts (maybe more depending on the situation), on any given night. When you factor in that Josh also takes about 12 shots per game, or more, depending on whether or not his mind is in the game on that night. That’s a large majority of the shots for the entire team. If Marvin were to increase his shot attempts, then that most likely means less shots for Al, which is something that most of us would hate to see. People have been complaining about Horford being underutilized for years, and that would only get worse if Marvin was given a larger role in the offense.
For Marvin to really excel, I do think that he needs a larger role and more pressure on him, but with the way the team is constructed as is, I don’t really expect much out of him aside from solid defense and the ability to hit open shots when he is called upon. For his salary, that is obviously not much to ask, but it is ownership’s fault that he is paid what he is being paid, and not Marvin’s fault.
I really think that it would be best for the team if Jamal were to be traded for a quality point-guarded with a well-rounded skill set, not just someone who can hit open shots and direct traffic (Bibby), or someone who has the physical ability to be a great defender, but has no shooting stroke at all (Teague). A point guard like that would be someone tough to find, unless New Jersey wants to give up Devin Harris for a streaky scorer, but you never know.
At any rate, I think that both Teague and Marvin would increase their production with Jamal out of the mix, and I also think that the offense would be more fluid as well. I have nothing against Jamal, but I don’t really feel like this is the best system for him. He plays best when he is given offensive freedom, and in a structured system, you take some of his strengths away from him by prohibiting him from having that freedom. Also, if you allow Jamal to play to his strengths, it can hurt the flow of the offense as we have seen on numerous occasions.
Not to mention the fact that Bibby and Jamal on the floor at the same time is a nightmare for us on the defensive end. We already have enough issues with Bibby trying to guard elite perimeter players, and we don’t need to compound that problem even more. Also, since we likely won’t be able to trade Bibby anytime soon, Jamal is the best candidate for a trade. He’s the one key player that is most easily replaced. He brings scoring, but we can replace his scoring with other guys on the team stepping up. Horford continues to really step it up on the offensive end, Marvin is showing signs of life without Jamal, Teague is starting to gain some confidence, and we have a guy who almost appears to be a clone of Jamal sitting in street clothes on our bench (Jordan Crawford).
Atlanta could free up some salary space without Jamal, as well, by not having to commit to another heavy contract which it appears that Jamal is requesting. I’m not sure of exactly what we will get in return for Jamal, but there is definitely interest in him out there. That’s my take on the matter.
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
5:27 pm
“If the Hawks played like the Spurs, and won like them, it still wouldn’t be an exciting enough product in ATL.”
But the point is if the Hawks played like the Spurs, they would have four Championships and packed houses every night. I could put up with Duck then. I would spend my money and go down to Phillips.What a beautiful dream! Snap outta it SLIMJR!!!!
SUND=KNIGHT
It was not a bad pick
December 23rd, 2010
5:29 pm
Rod from College Park
“Don’t you think if your boy Marvin was that good, that he teamates would find him, just like they did Flip, and Jamal, and like they do Joe”?
You and I both know Woody called iso plays for those guys..Do you remember Mike Woodson? Marvin was drafted #2 the same year we traded for Joe Max..He has never ever been able to get touches with ball hogs like flip,Jamal, and Max…When ever one of those guys have been hurt, Marvin always steps up..So that means if we get the ball in his hands, he will produce..i have never seen a team draft a guy #2 and waste him for a solid player at best (Max)..Everyone else go stand in a corner and hope for the ball..
northcyde
December 23rd, 2010
6:00 pm
Terrell . . if people couldn’t get excited about last year’s team, a team that beat everybody at home except Oklahoma City and Dallas ( and only lost 7 home games ), then I question that people can gey excited about anything.
I’ve gone round and round about this topic on 3 different Hawk sites. And the main thing I’ve seen over the years is that some Hawk fans simply find reasons to NOT go to games, instead of finding reasons TO go to the games.
If it’s not the Hawks not having a superstar, it’s because the Hawks are “boring”
If boring isn’t the reason, it’s traffic . . or start times . . or hatred for the ownership . . or ticket prices . . or their playing a sorry team . . or whatever thing people want to come up with to justify them not going to the game.
But what about going to the game because the Hawks are supposed to be your favorite team? What about going to the games so that you can see for yourself what goes on that the TV cameras don’t show you? What about going to the games just to get the feel of being at a live NBA game?
That’s why I literally drive 600 miles round trip to see the Hawks. Watching on Sportsouth is fine, but nothing beats the live in game experience. Even emotionally, being at the game is much better than seeing it on TV.
Ownership has failed true enough to bring in better, more exciting, or more big name players to get people more psyched about the Hawks.
But at the end of the day, it’s simply up to the individual if they want to go to the game or not. You either make plans to go . . or you don’t.
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
6:10 pm
It was not a bad pick,
Not arguing about the is offense, I agree. My question is, if Marvin was as good as you say he is, do you honestly think that any coach would allow Flip Murray and Jamal Crawford to take shots from him. Horford’s shot attempts have continued to go up, so why do Marvin’s drop? I’ll answer the question for you, in practice he does not show that he can score, he does not do it in games either, so any coach with any common sense would let the better players take the shots. Those better players include, Joe, Flip, Josh Horford, Jamal and Bibby.
Rod from College Park
December 23rd, 2010
6:11 pm
iso
northcyde
December 23rd, 2010
6:51 pm
I do agree with Rod on that point. Regardless if Jamal and Flip were brought here, if Marvin was a consistent baller, they wouldn’t have taken many shots from him.
Too many times, Woody and now LD, has opted to finish games with Marvin on the bench, mainly because of his inactive and erratic play. But I think the mistake that both coaches made, is that we’re almost better off playing an inactive Marvin ( if he’s playing solid defense ) . . than to play a cold Jamal.
But it’s Marvin’s fault that both coaches looked toward others to close out games.
eastlaketb
December 23rd, 2010
7:17 pm
im still not sold on marvin. i wanna see how he plays the next 4 to 5 games.Slimjr_i feel you on your post Candice Parker for marvin.lol!
Fundamentals
December 23rd, 2010
7:23 pm
Amen guys. If you can’t command the ball enough to get shots and Flip Murray takes them from you – you can’t ball. Also, if the coach is willing to put a total defensive liability in during clutch moments – you can’t ball. When you’re this far in your career and people are still hoping you’ll at least contribute – you can’t ball.
Dude’s gotta be consistent or he’s done.
I guess Shelden finally has a niche in Denver, but AC, Royal, Solomon, Chills, ect are still trying to prove they can ball, but, they can’t.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 23rd, 2010
8:26 pm
Marvin has played well the last five games. Good for him. All this means is that his trade value is higher and the Hawks should strike while the iron is hot.
I’m done waiting on him. Ship his azz out. They are going to need to get him off the books in a couple of years to have the cap space to make a run at Dwight Howard anyway.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 23rd, 2010
8:29 pm
“But what about going to the game because the Hawks are supposed to be your favorite team? What about going to the games so that you can see for yourself what goes on that the TV cameras don’t show you? What about going to the games just to get the feel of being at a live NBA game?”
The percentage of die hard fans like you at any sporting event is generally going to be less than half. The majority of people at any sporting event in most cities are casual fans who jump on the bandwagon when the team is doing well and/or is interesting.
In order for casual fans in Atlanta to jump on the Hawks bandwagon — like they did for the Falcons when Vick was here, and are doing again now that they have the league’s best record — the Hawks either have to be legitimate title contenders, acquire a legitimate superstar, or preferably both. Right now the Hawks are not legit title contenders nor do they have a legit superstar.
Ramon
December 23rd, 2010
8:34 pm
RLP, Lamar Odom averages 9.0 reb a game for his career.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 23rd, 2010
8:34 pm
“If the Hawks played like the Spurs, and won like them, it still wouldn’t be an exciting enough product in ATL.”
If the Hawks were year in year out title contenders like the Spurs, of course they would sell out the place. It’s not like the Falcons are some big play, highlight producing team. They are like the NFL version of the Spurs, methodically grinding their way to victories, and fans are showing up to watch them. Unlike the Hawks, though, the Falcons have a legitimate shot at a Super Bowl victory either now or in the near future.
Rufus1
December 23rd, 2010
8:42 pm
Woodson didn’t run an offense…
Woodson let the team play street ball, players like Jamal and Flip thrive in situations like that. It is no suprise Flip and Jamal had 2 of their best season’s under Woody. Marvin doesn’t dribble well enough to thrive in that system…..Flip out of the league….Woodson out of the league.
The simple fact this year is LD has been calling plays for Marvin, playing to his strengths…its called coaching…you don’t just roll a ball on the court and say play.( I.E, Boston Game..Ray Allen had no points in the 1st half, Doc called multiple plays for Ray)
LD’s offense has already shown to improve Marvins play and this is his 1st year…..
PS. Food for thought….Jamal makes as much as Monta Ellis….Wait for it..Wait for it….and still thinks he worth that much.
LD’s offense has
Boooo!
December 23rd, 2010
8:44 pm
Lets be honest here guys. Marvin is a wuss. He passes up open shots because he is SCARED to shoot them. You know this. Teague passes up open shots because he can do other things even if he’s not a great shoter. MARVIN DUCK Williams has no excuse for being such a pansy. He plays scared. Flip and ‘mal get those shots BECAUSE THEY TAKE THOSE SHOTS. Marvin passes them up.
Marvin, Mo, and Zaza for Iggy
prison mike
December 23rd, 2010
8:47 pm
For such a huge butt, marv doesn’t hold position in the post well. I’ve seen enough of guys running over him to deflect and steal the entry pass…
The greatest hope is to work his trade value up and trade him to a franchise desperate for any type of young talent, like toronto or charlotte.
prison mike
December 23rd, 2010
9:17 pm
Marvin’s numbers are essentially all the same across the board as last years when he was terrible. Captain Jack is 32 but I’m pretty sure Jordan would trade him for marv and mo.
Bibby
Joe
Captain Jack
Josh
Al
hawkfan
December 23rd, 2010
10:02 pm
um, after seeing this magic-spurs game, we might just need to change things up around here and get some trades going because there is no way we stand a chance with this new look magic team, boston, bulls, or heat, and it’s surprising how much orlando is running throughout the game and got more athletic while we have athleticism but do not run as much at all, i see us being behind orlando in standings really soon if we don’t change at all, GO HAWKS!!!
D'Andre
December 23rd, 2010
10:11 pm
Tyrone, where is Booboo at now? Where’s the notorious trade rumor that you were so excited to tell us about last week? Looks like it was just another bit of hype to get the fans’ hopes up.
Grandad
December 23rd, 2010
10:18 pm
Rufus1 @ 8:42 pm ->Great post
Mary Ellen;
I take ~hot~ showers to cool me down!
Fundamentals & Ken Strickland;
sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday!
I do not remember your questions? (old age)
The thing I remember is:
I wish to keep Jamal if @ all possible.
Oh yeah…Fundamentals;
Yes, I’m still high on A.Ajinca.
*Mo & JC2
would get
*A Ajinca & JJ Barea.
Salaries work and I like that trade.
Barea super @ the pick & roll. (terrific playmaker)
Aaron
December 23rd, 2010
10:22 pm
hawkfan,
Don’t let the Spurs-Magic game fool you. Wait a little longer to see how the Spurs play against other quality opponents before judging them. The Spurs are playing terrible tonight, definitely not one of their best games. Also, I think that the Hawks match up very well with the new-look magic, as was apparent during Monday night’s game. At this point, it’s arguable that the Hawks create more mismatches for the Magic than vice versa. As far as the Heat go, the Hawks match up with them as well as anyone in the league. The Celtics create problems, there’s no doubt about that, but that is mainly due to the fact that they have some very quick perimeter players, which always causes us problems. Additionally, they have tons of size to throw at us. Their size is an issue for just about any team though. To bring up the Bulls is kind of a joke at this point. They are playing pretty well, but we have yet to even see how the Hawks play against them yet. In the past, the Hawks really had no issues with them outside of guarding rose. Boozer is a good addition, but we have guys like Horford who I think match up extremely well with him defensively.
Just because certain teams get a lot of media attention and favoritism, it doesn’t mean that they are immediate contenders or should be feared. At this point, the Celtics are the only team in the east who can legitimately say that they are a true contender. They have proven that time and time again and deserve the respect of every team in the league. The Heat will be great during the regular season, but they have yet to prove that they are capable of defeating the upper echelon teams like Boston, L.A., Dallas, San Antonio, or even Orlando. Orlando is also still in a developing phase after the trade, so we can’t quite get an accurate guage on their ability yet either.
I’m all for the Hawks looking to make a trade to improve further if the opportunity is there, but not because of Orlando, Miami, or Chicago, especially not Chicago.
Aaron
December 23rd, 2010
10:27 pm
Correction on the second sentence in my last post: I meant to say “Wait a little longer to see how the Magic play against other quality opponents…”.
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
10:34 pm
When Chills was here, he would finish games instead of Marvin, despite the fact that Marvin was averaging 13 and 6 or close to it.
Why? because Chills would find ways to impact a game. he would help bring the ball up, he would get a key offensive rebound, and although his jump shot was ugly, if he was open, he would make it.
Marvin, tends to disappear in and out. I remember one game earlier in the season (I think it was against Boston) where Jamal was cold as ice, and he had numerous turnovers. But yet LD stuck with Jamal down the stretch, instead of playing Marvin.
And its not like LD’s sets are street ball/ISOs like Woody. But he usually goes with Jamal too. That tells me that Marvin is not consistent enough for them to stick with him.
However, he has been playing well of late, and I hope it continues.
Najeh,
If Marvin continues to play well, Hawks are going to say he is definitely a keeper.
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
10:37 pm
Somebody was wondering if Smoove and Shaq could co-exist. This is from ajc.com;
The Hawks also lack size among their rotation players. Smith said the Hawks would have been better with 7-foot-1 center Shaquille O’Neal, who considered signing with them as a free agent last summer before joining the Celtics.
“He’s not a guy that is going to play five more years, but he still can help you right now,” Smith said. .
slimjr
December 23rd, 2010
10:53 pm
SUND are you reading???? Your squad is fixin to get smoked in the 2011 playoffs again for the 3rd time dude. You better step up and make some moves or you’ll be packing a suit case real soon we fans hope!!!
Marvin for Candice Parker….
RLP
December 23rd, 2010
11:03 pm
Ramon -
Thanks for the correction. I took the number I got from his career offensive rebound average. Actually I am surprised to find anyone checked that closely. I am happy that you did.
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
11:08 pm
From hoopshype.com;
Brian T. Smith: Hawks small forward Pape Sy, 53rd overall pick of 2010 NBA Draft, expected to join D-League’s Utah Flash on Monday. Twitter .
Why did it take so long for the Hawks to send him to the D-League, I dont understand.
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
11:09 pm
Also from hoopshype.com;
Adrian Wojnarowski: Charles Oakley has officially joined Paul Silas’ coaching staff with the Bobcats, league sources tell Y! Sports. Twitter .
I didnt know Oakley wanted into coaching.
Grandad
December 23rd, 2010
11:19 pm
O’Brien
He’s Jordan’s bodyguard.
Already being paid.
Probably there to whup some butt. [B-cat players]
Silas can probably still take most of ‘em.
O'Brien
December 23rd, 2010
11:20 pm
The struggling Magic blow out the red hot Spurs tonight
SteveW
December 23rd, 2010
11:41 pm
O’Brien – That quote was not from Josh Smith, but Steve? Smith that used to be with the Hawks.
Sy has been rehabilitating his back, so he couldn’t go to D League until healed.
Grandad
December 23rd, 2010
11:53 pm
LeBron is officially a self centered, egomaniacal idiot.
Who lets him loose in front of the media with the idea he
has enough wisdom to have an opinion. *[his homily on contraction]
Actually saying Minnesota & NJ should be contracted so
K.Love, Lopez & D.harris could play elsewhere. *(espn)
Read the article, I’m sure he’s a villain in those cities now!
He continues to open his mouth and out jumps an Ass-Clown.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:08 am
Spurs playing a back to back with Christmas around the corner, I wouldn’t read to much into it. The Bucks blew out the Lakers in LA this week also.
But I do think the Magic will be really good – how can you not with that lineup?
And Ryan Anderson was back tonight. As thin as the Magic are up front now, he makes all the difference in the world.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:15 am
If there are no trades, next season the Hawks will look like this:
C- Horford, ZaZa
PF – Smoove
SF – Marvin, Sy, and maybe Wilkens
SG – JJ and JC2
PG – Bibby and Teague
That’s 10 spots if you count Wilkens, who I hope the Hawks keep. He’s a vet minimum guy who really helps. We will probably draft a big, a PF or a C if available. That will be 11. Then sign 2 more bigs, and maybe even choose between Collins, Powell and Etan again, who knows.
Solid, exciting team if you ask me.
Teague, Marvin, ZaZa and then JC2 will be the keys to the team.
Our future probably ultimately rests with Teague, and we have invested alot into him. He’s only going to get better (hopefully), and the guys got plenty of upside.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:17 am
As far as bigs go for next season, I wouldn’t mind Siler as a 3rd C and Solomon Jones as a backup PF. I saw Solo in Indy recently, and was highly impressed. His stats stink though
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:19 am
i actually like the queens idea.. 24 teams ;12 teams in each conference.
possibly 3 all-stars on 1 team.. possibly a superstar. solid benches and role players. 1 and done bust dont hurt as bad. shorter seasons, games increase in value..
it would give you that 90’s NBA feel (nba on nbc jingle playing in my head)
Hornets (already rumored gone; city can only support ‘aints).. Raptors(its Canada hockey reigns supreme, T-dot can support Knicks)…Clippers (Lakers wear Favorite son tee to every California family function; not to mention we think our mgt is bad) Bobcats (College Town)…Nets (already out the door)… T’wolves (twin cities have good fan bases, but hey if the Lakers and rumored Vikings can leave so can these young pups ); axe em..
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:19 am
Grandad, LeBron only said the league would be better if there were fewer teams. And he stated the league was better in the 80s when there were fewer teams. How many people are you really going to find who disagree with that point of view? He even came back and said he’s not saying those exact teams should be contracted, but just in general ‘Not saying let’s take New Jersey and let’s take Minnesota out of the league. But hey, you guys are not stupid, I’m not stupid, it would be great for the league.’..
He has merits to his statements. When before have you seen FIVE teams in the same season (only first half of the season) go on 8-10 game winning streaks? And in most of those streaks, not a single team played more than two or three playoff teams. There are twice as more bad teams as they are good teams this season. In the east, there will be two teams in the playoffs that truly SUCK. In the West, the bottom teams are even worse than the bottom teams of the East. There isn’t much competition any more. The league is more about money than it is about basketball and competition. That’s the reason the league went to 7 games in the first round instead of 5 games. That’s the reason there are so many days off between games in the playoffs (unlike baseball). Having one of the first 3-5 picks used to mean something in the league. Now it only means you have to wait 3-4 years before you know if you have a good player or not.
Many of the players in the league now, wouldn’t make a single team back in the 80s. Lebron was asked a question, and he answered it. We can’t get mad when players answer the questions honestly. People used to get mad at MJ because he seemed to always be political correct. Other players in the league would be pissed at MJ, because he wouldn’t go on record saying what he really felt. Now we have players who give us their opinions (rather positive or negative) and we’re upset? No fan want’s the team to be moved from the city that they’re in. However, most fans would admit the competition isn’t like it used to be.
To make it worse, David Stern is seriously exploring building new franchises in other countries, even though the product is already diluted.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:22 am
SteveW, Siler is in Phoenix with a team that has been weak in the front court all season (the reason they made the trade), and have only played in 6 games this entire season. Sorry to say, but the man must be overrated by the fans.
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:33 am
you might even add a Griz squad.. was watching memphis/ nj game Fratello was speaking on how the team struggles to draw numbers. furthermore on Bobcats.. Charlotte has a strong following of DC sports im sure they can follow the Wizards and NC’s native son..
if NBA was to consider contraction i have no idea how they would format qualifications. however, im sure they will consider recent success and of course media markets.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
12:36 am
To LbJ [AKA] Ass-Clown defenders:
He named teams and players.
He has no business.
What is LeBron 25?
How much wisdom does one acquire @ 25?
I’m not debating his points. valid or not.
He has no right to speak on those points.
He’s not mature enough.
What do you think the union thinks of his statement?
Did he think of the 90 players out of a job?
[I get it they're millioaires...so is he]
what about the 20 – 30 coaches out of work?
All the support people.
Folks who work at the games, the ecomomy of the cities.
Is the great LeBron going to decide??
Did he even think of the lowest guy on the rung @ Minnesota?
What if they contract Detroit?
What happens to that great city, already ravaged by the ecomomy?
You reckon he thought of anyone besides himself?
I think not.
Did You?
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:38 am
then again, they would never. in a million years. less games, less revenue.. so on and so on. end of story.
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:44 am
Grandad..
he’s well w/ in his “rights” to speak on it.. as is sir charles to speak out on keeping kids in the college game longer (which i agree with). i mean, its not like we have to worry about Lebron making these decisions.. lets continue to let him throw dirt on his image. who cares.. i just think it would build a stronger league. the league is watered down.. as 25 yr old myself, its not hard to see this..
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:45 am
Ramon – I know, Siler is terrible, but as a 4th C, he may develop. I’m not even opposed to bringing Shelden back to the Hawks. He’s quietly having his best season, and 6.2 boards in 20 mpg is not bad by anyone’s standards. That’s better than Josh and equal to Al in Rebounds per minute.
We have 63,606,550 committed to salaries next season, so I’m going to guess that draft picks and FA minimum guys are going to fill out our roster for awhile. That’s why Sund likes his core, financially he’s almost stuck with them in a certain sense. I understand trades, but Sund has it set up where Bibby expires after next season, then is it ZaZa and Josh the year after that? We’ll have to use ZaZa’s money to re-sign Josh probably. Then Marvin expires the year after that if I’m not mistaken (if he excersises his player option, which he probably will).
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:45 am
Pendegraft better draft right….
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
12:48 am
More:
Hotel industry
Restaurant industry
Transportation industry
Media:
TV, radio, newspapers…beat writers
Merchandise
Coaches, scouts, trainers, medical staff
Front office staff, all the way down to ticket takers
Custodial & maintenance
X 6 more or less!
I’m certain I left out much.
Oh, but LbJ would be happy, let’s do it. Yeah…..King!
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:48 am
its not up to professional sports or any other recreational entity to save our country’s economic state. if we’re banking on that, we’re in deep doo doo..
im no fan of lebron.. but i respect his candidness. “im not into saving franchises” was classic. hey, i would’ve stayed and played for the crib.. but guys are motivated by different things..
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:48 am
Grandad, actually the income for the league as a whole may would be better. There would be more games sold out. Also that would improve college play, because as many players wouldn’t come out, because they wouldn’t be guaranteed being drafted just on potential. Grandad, you speak about his age and wisdom. Your age doesn’t make you wise. If you are 86 years old and lived 86 years in a bubble, you won’t be too wise. Actually most men who are wise at an old age, was wise at a young age. There are just as many old fools as they are young fools. If you don’t think so, visit Florida, lol. Lol better yet, visit Congress, lol. If he has an opinion and he has validity backing that opinion, then he has a right to speak his mind on that fact. And speaking of wisdom, as a wise man, you should know in ALL THINGS, times come when its better to cut off the foot, so you don’t lose the entire body (as said in the Bible ‘Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.’ Matt 7:19).
Also many of these cities you’re speaking about are truly losing MORE money as a whole from the NBA franchise than they’re making. From the tax exemptions, to the pollution and city resources (money) that it takes just to maintain an unsuccessful franchise. If you look at the Seattle situation, you will see the Sonics were costing the city more money than it was making them. So that actually shows Lebron does understand business and have some sense of wisdom about himself. He basically said he would like the league to become more competitive (making it harder on his career), and you call him self centered for that?
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:55 am
Also Grandad how many more salaries could some of the owners put into their businesses to hire more employees, for the players, coaches, and executives salaries? Larry Brown made over $8 million a year to coach. How many employees would that have been for any company (because most owners have some kind of company they’re running also)? You’re giving 30 coaches, over $2 million a piece (close to $134 million total) annually, when they don’t even spend the money (nor the players). So the money isn’t even going back into the market or the economy (because as a wise man, I’m sure you’re aware the average rich/wealthy man does not spend money. while the average middle class American spends 65-80% of his income if not more).
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:59 am
Lets look at some Hawks draft picks:
2007 – 11th pick Acie Law
2006 – 5th pick Shelden Williams
2005 – 2nd pick Marvin Williams; 1st pick of the 2nd round – Salim Stoudamire
2004 – 6th pick Josh Childress
Now it really gets bad:
2001 – 3rd pick Pau Gasol whom we traded. Just like the Falcons have had Drew Brees, Brett Farve and Matt Schaub as QB’s
2000 – 6th pick DeMarr Johnson – who may have been good except for that accident.
1999 – 17th pick – Cal Bowdler; 20th pick Dion Glover; 27th pick Jumaine Jones
1998 – 20th pick Roshown Mcleod
1997 – 22nd pick Ed Gray
1996 – 28th pick Priest Lauderdale
‘93 – 15th pick – Doug Edwards
‘92 – 10th pick – Adam Keefe
‘91 – 9th pick – Stacy Augmon; 15th pick Anthony Avent
I will spare us Dallas Comegys, Roy Marble, Rumeal Robinson, Billy Thompson and Jon Koncak. It’s a wonder we still have a team in ATL.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
1:00 am
Now I left out a few good ones, but we get the picture
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:00 am
SteveW, I would venture to say if you put up any team besides the Spurs, you would see over a 10-13 year span, they have about the same success rate with the draft as any other team.
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
1:00 am
Ramon.. agreed.
i don’t judge people based on age simply because it can be misleading. u have older individuals with maturity levels of school aged children. there is no age on exposure and experiences. wisdom is valued b/c its directly obtained from your experiences.
considering his lifestyle alone, and his apparent fall from grace, james is more than qualified to give his opinion on the league. the nba is a a brand.. and james is a high commodity.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:04 am
Demarr Johnson was the last player drafted in the first round by the Hawks who isn’t in the league today. And Johnson was a good player until the injuries.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:05 am
LeBron may be a jackass generally speaking, but he is 100% correct about contraction. You need either two superstars or three All-Stars to have a realistic shot at winning a title in the NBA. Are there enough All-Stars and superstars to fill the rosters of 30 teams? Hell no. And this is why while teams go from worst to first in the NFL every year, and small market teams even manage to make the playoffs regularly in the no-salary-cap-having MLB, the haves and have-nots are pretty much set in stone in the NBA unless a have-not happens to get lucky in the lottery.
Really, this problem is being masked by the fact that more than half the league makes the playoffs. Small-market, low budget teams who don’t have the means or the luck necessary to land superstars can still try to claim to their fan bases that they are successful because they manage to get into the playoffs with 7th or 8th seeds.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:07 am
Najeh, exactly. And think if Oklahoma didn’t land Durant (in Seattle) would the Thunder be owned by the NBA by now?
cp
December 24th, 2010
1:08 am
That new article on the Hawks sums it up as why its hard to be a fan of this team. This front office is sold on this core that they dont see that they are probably maxed out. They are content with just making the playoffs. The Hawks are stuck with being good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make any serious noise. It is what it is.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:12 am
As for the Spurs-Magic game earlier today, I’m not too worried about it. The Spurs played their worst game of the season. In an 82 game season, teams are not going to bring it every game, and the Spurs didn’t bring it tonight. The Magic roster still has major problems, the biggest being that they only have two big men. I still think in the long run the Magic are no better, and perhaps worse, than they were before.
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:15 am
Roshown Mcleod > Marvin Williams
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:17 am
I’m boycotting the Hawks games because they don’t play enough rap music
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:17 am
“Did he think of the 90 players out of a job?
[I get it they're millioaires...so is he]
what about the 20 – 30 coaches out of work?
All the support people.
Folks who work at the games, the ecomomy of the cities.
Is the great LeBron going to decide??”
Do you think the NBA is going to think twice about any of those people if they decide to contract a franchise? Hell no. They are going to look at the bottom line. If they determine that a location can’t be profitable in the long term, they are of course going to contract. And quite frankly, the NBA is a private corporation, not a jobs program. You can’t expect a corporation in a free enterprise system to create more jobs than it can afford just to benefit others. That’s just not the way the economy works.
LeBron is speaking from the point of view of increasing profitability and competition in the league. Say what you want about his personality, but he has proven to have a lot of business savvy ever since entering the league, and in this particular case, he is right on point.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:18 am
“I’m boycotting the Hawks games because they don’t play enough rap music”
And what rap music they do play is played on the keyboard because they can’t afford to pay the licensing fee to play the real thing.
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:21 am
Maybe the Hawks need to take notes from the Falcons. They pack the Dome because they have a championship caliber team.
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:22 am
Shaking My Got Dam Head
They need to give that dam keyboard up. Kiss Cam Too
slimjr
December 24th, 2010
1:23 am
@Steve W
‘2007 – 11th pick Acie Law
2006 – 5th pick Shelden Williams
2005 – 2nd pick Marvin Williams; 1st pick of the 2nd round – Salim Stoudamire
2004 – 6th pick Josh Childress
Now it really gets bad:
2001 – 3rd pick Pau Gasol whom we traded. Just like the Falcons have had Drew Brees, Brett Farve and Matt Schaub as QB’s
2000 – 6th pick DeMarr Johnson – who may have been good except for that accident.
1999 – 17th pick – Cal Bowdler; 20th pick Dion Glover; 27th pick Jumaine Jones
1998 – 20th pick Roshown Mcleod
1997 – 22nd pick Ed Gray
1996 – 28th pick Priest Lauderdale
‘93 – 15th pick – Doug Edwards
‘92 – 10th pick – Adam Keefe
‘91 – 9th pick – Stacy Augmon; 15th pick Anthony Avent
I will spare us Dallas Comegys, Roy Marble, Rumeal Robinson, Billy Thompson and Jon Koncak. It’s a wonder we still have a team in ATL”
Wow, no wonder this team has not won anything! Those lousy draft picks are brutal!!
Thanks Steve W. for that info dude…
Sund=Knight
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:30 am
Najeh Davenpoop’s Contraction Rankings
———-
1. Memphis
2. Charlotte
3. Minnesota
4. New Orleans
5. Sacramento
6. LA Clippers
I can understand why people might include Toronto and New Jersey, but I wouldn’t contract them. New Jersey has nowhere to go but up from here, with their billionaire owner and pending move to NYC. Toronto may be in the dumps now but Raptors fans are really passionate (I know plenty of them, they are borderline delusional) and they have the support of an entire country’s worth of basketball fans.
If the NBA was going to contract teams, though, they would be foolish not to use that as an opportunity to get Donald Sterling out of the league.
A 24-team league without those six teams and with players like Chris Paul, Tyreke Evans, Rudy Gay, Gerald Wallace, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, etc. dispersed among the remaining teams? I think that would be pretty fun to watch.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:33 am
Blog ate my last post;
I’m not saying I’m wise.
I am saying that with age comes wisdom.
Also Ramon your 12:48 was mostly absurd and a farce.
I disagree vehemently with yawl on this subject.
Once again, I’m not debating “contraction”.
Just aggravated @ one immature millionaire blustering
on a serious topic. [He's gonna get his either way]
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:37 am
Grandad, what would be your reaction if the presumably more mature Charles Barkley said the exact same thing?
Because I can tell you this — there are plenty of old people who agree with LeBron on this issue.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:38 am
Najeh Davenpoop
My contraction list:
PHX
ATL
Minnesota
Sac-town
N.O.
Charlotte
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:39 am
And while were @ it Milwaukee & Detroit.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:39 am
In fact, I would argue that NBA owners and David Stern were being greedy — and you could even say “immature” — by expanding to markets in which they were likely to fail in the first place.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:41 am
Phoenix and Atlanta are the 12th and 9th largest metropolitan areas in the USA respectively. No way the NBA abandons those markets unless there are really, really extenuating circumstances. Those cities have teams in all four major sports leagues for a reason.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:43 am
I’m quite certain the players union “loves” his business savvy.
Once again;
I’m not debating *contraction*.
It’s morally wrong for him to speak out on contraction,
given his wealth.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:44 am
As an alternative idea, the NBA could keep their current 30 teams and institute relegation like soccer leagues do in Europe where the six worst teams go to the equivalent of the D-League each year. It would be damn near impossible to get the owners to agree to this, so it’s really more of a pipe dream, but it would definitely make the league much more competitive.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:45 am
Yawl have your opinions, I have mine.
Good evening & have a merry Christmas all!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:46 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_and_relegation
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:51 am
Grandad, we can agree to disagree. Just answer one question for me though. Realistically, how much money do you think the Thrashers and the Hawks are making the city of Atlanta? And how often have you been in another city outside of Georgia or Tennessee and saw a Hawks jersey that wasn’t of Dominique’s? And whatever city you live in, how many careers would you say truly deserve $6 million dollars a year? Do you realize how many salaries at $35K a year can be paid out (and benefits) for that amount? Carrying on when you really can’t afford it (as many franchises are doing) is the very thing that has the country in the debt that it is in now. The citizens collectively tried to purchase things that we really couldn’t afford (credit cards, homes, cars, luxury items, addiction to Starbucks-Susan Orman biggest pet peeves). The federal government has tried to purchase things on credit that it really couldn’t afford (not even going to go down the list). The state government has purchased things they couldn’t afford (a multimillion dollar pond in Perry, GA just to start).
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:56 am
Grandad, every one in the league who would make the decision has wealth. Believe it or not Lebron has a huge say in the Players Association (along with the other wealthy players). So who in the league can speak about contraction but it would be acceptable for you? Pape Sy? Garrett Siler?
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:58 am
Najeh Davenpoop
Final word;
I’m not against contraction.
I do value ‘your’ opinion.
I think gentlemen and ladies who are more learned than myself,
who have studied this subject at length, who have extensive
economic backgrounds with experience to back it up, should
be the ones to advise the decision makers
[both the owners and the union] what the most sensible course
for the entire league would be. Then with counsel and deliberation
[I doubt they use prayer] a wise leader should make a sound
decision then stand it.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
2:14 am
Ramon…..Last post…..answering your questions.
(1) I don’t know?
(2) Several:
Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Pete Maravich,
(3) Five:
Teachers, Physicians, Nurses, & Firefighters, & Police
(4) Either I didn’t understand question # 4,
or you answered it yourself.
Happy Holidays Ramon!
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
2:26 am
Happy Holidays, Grandad!
EmirS.
December 24th, 2010
9:37 am
Co – Sign @ Grandad 12:36 a.m.
EmirS.
December 24th, 2010
9:39 am
Co – Sign @ Grandad 12:48 a.m.
O'Brien
December 24th, 2010
9:55 am
I think the Magic will be forced to make another trade at the trade deadline. Because the team they have will not beat a healthy Celtics team (imo).
As for contraction, I agree with LeBron. The talent in the league is watered down, and contraction would help.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
10:33 am
Ramon 1:51 AM – you mentioned the pond in Perry? Do you work in fisheries management? It’s sad that Purdue or DNR Headquarters can push for that center, while closing one of it’s best hatcheries in Dawson, GA. Maybe Cordele, but not Dawson?
Is Battie or Toriaf enough for ORL? Would they need more? I tend to think Dwight will demand more to stay long term.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
10:49 am
I guess I should’ve said almost closed Dawson to afford the Perry facility.
Any one in Sac town we need as they are starting to grumble?
ReddJonn68
December 24th, 2010
10:52 am
Dang Cleveland, you guys look as bad as the Wizards!
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:05 pm
Fundementals, no I don’t, lol. I just like researching and reading.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:06 pm
I think Van Gundy is going to get Ewing to come off the bench and give 10-15 good minutes, lol.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
12:15 pm
Ramon, Just wondering. I’ve got a friend named Ramon who works for DNR is why I asked. When I saw the mention of the hatchery it stuck me as odd. The Ramon I know used to live on the Dawson hatchery 6-8 years back before he got promoted.
I wonder if Ewing could play spot minutes for a title shot? Any word on folks that they speculate for bigs for ORL? We might could use one too if we could shop Etan, ZaZa, JC1 or Mo?
slimjr
December 24th, 2010
12:16 pm
Friday ATL Constitution paper says Sund is committed to his “core” guys(Billy Knights team). So fans of Atlanta expect the same crap! Nothing but excuses when this team get smoked in the playoffs again. Sund says “We’ve improved every year.Now we will see if we can get one step closer to a championship.” Hey Sund are you reading these blogs? We ain’t buying your bull****! Your team is 10-18 in the playoffs these past 3 seasons. And have averaged losing by over 20 pts. a game on the road in the playoff’s and you are trying to insult our intelligence with that garbage?? Like Bush even you don’t believe your BS!! This guy is amazing ya’ll…..
Sund=Billy Knight (Worst GM in Hawks History)
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
12:21 pm
slimjr,
What rumblings have you heard or seen for a quality big or PG that could help us? Knowing Sund, we’ve got Mo, JC1, Etan, ZaZa and maybe Bibby to work with? Speculate a bit if you would?
terrell
December 24th, 2010
1:01 pm
The “core”. lol! So who does he consider the “core”? His “core” ?(Bibby, Jamal, Damien, Mo, Etan) Or Billy’s “core”? JJ, Marvin, Josh, Al, Zaza) Whatever man.
slimjr
December 24th, 2010
1:39 pm
@fundamentals
“What rumblings have you heard or seen?’
The title of today’s article by Michael Cunnigham “HAWKS HOLDING BACK AS RIVALS ACT”
“For now,team will stick with its core group..He did not elaborate who his core group was.Sund also said they have been encourage by Atlanta’s “ability” to stay afloat (13-12 since starting 6-0) despite injuries to JJ, Marvin, and Jamal Crawford! Here comes the excuses.Atlanta has played the most games in the NBA (31) and tied for back to back games played(10)..Whatever……get ready to get smoked in the playoffs again…Sund was CYA’ing people..
Different GM same Garbage
Sund=Billy Knight
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
2:05 pm
Seems like Dallas might let Ajinca go, possibly Hayward if the deal is right? Portland might deal Pryzbilla or Camby? Diop in CHA? Rumblings are only starting. We could use a quality big to help Collins who’s name isn’t Thomas or Pachulia.
Seems Jordan is anxious to get something done? They already have a ton of crap ex-Hawks. Can we add some to the list?
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
2:17 pm
Am I the only who actually likes the look of the team MORE without JC1? Teague seems to be playing better. The team has played the best defense of the year when JC1 hasn’t been in uniform. In the last 5 games, the Hawks have given up an average of 88.2 points per game in JC1. With more playing time for Teague, Wilkins, Joe and Marvin (along with Mo coming back finally healthier), the Hawks have been limited to only one horrible defender in the perimeter and that’s Bibby. The Hawks don’t need Crawford’s 17 ppg if they’re going to be able to hold teams under 95 ppg consistently. Also Teague while, not a scorer, is a better rebounder than Crawford also. They average the same amount of rebounds per game, although JC plays 2.5x more than Teague.
So maybe the Hawks need to see if the Clippers will take Crawford for Kaman.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
2:21 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=249v97p
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
2:25 pm
slimjr & Fundamentals;
great info from that hard hitting informative article
that MC ground out, with all his inside contacts.
According to Ken Sugiura he’s been working on that all week,
digging for leads and providing insight.
If Ajinca can be had, I still wish for him [Christmas].
Heck, I would settle for Thabeet.
G.Wallace is too much to hope for.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
2:25 pm
I’d be shopping Crawford for a combination of players or one depending on quality. Something to shore up the bigs or PG. Kaman, Pryzbilla, Camby, Haywood, Ajinca, Diop, Dalembert, ect. I really think there will be some shake-up big time this Feb before the trade deadline.
I’d rather see JC2 or Damien instead of Mo. I’d also like to see Etan or Collins instead of ZaZa.
Is Powell’s knee still injured or has LD dropped him from the rotation?
What about trying to salvage Barron Davis from the clips as well?
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
2:29 pm
Or better yet
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28r2bu7
Hawks get:
Samuel Dalembert
Jason Thompson
Kings get:
Jamal Crawford
Zaza Pachulia
Etan Thomas
Sacramento would do this deal any day of the week. And the Hawks would get two big bodies for the playoffs, while giving up Zaza and dead weight. And the Hawks still end up with expiring deals, and are no longer tied to Zaza’s contract going forward.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
2:30 pm
OK, Barron is too expensive, but you could go Kaman for JC1 straight up if you used 1 million of the TPE. Most likley ASG/Sund would say no b/c it would put us in the tax next season since Kaman has another year…but honestly going into the tax is a move we fans would see as doing the best they can to win here in ATL instead of pushing mediocrity on budget.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
2:33 pm
Aquire Gerald Wallace w/ Marvin & Mo + 1 million of TPE
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
2:35 pm
Fundamentals, I’d rather see Crawford sent off for Wallace than Marvin. Marvin can defend 2 positions. Crawford can only defend his seat. Also, the Teague that’s playing is way better without Crawford than the Teague who shares the backcourt with Crawford.
slimjr
December 24th, 2010
2:40 pm
‘I really think there will be some shake-up big time this Feb before the trade deadline.’
I think so too. Orlando is fixin to take off. Sund will be compelled to finally make a move by then…This team is not ready to make waves in the playoff’s at this time. EFC is out of the question!!Kenny Smith keeps repeating on National TV that this team “plays bad basketball.I do not like to watch bad basketball.” Now that speaks volumes…Sund says he’s not makin a move at this time….Yawn…..My remote is charged up and ready for action!
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
2:52 pm
Let’s assume you got Dalembert & Thompson for ZaZa, Etan & Jamal. That shores up the bigs. Now what of the PG slot? You now have Marvin, Mo and maybe Bibby to deal?
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
2:59 pm
Marvin for Jameer Nelson?
or
Bibby & Mo for Andre Miller & Rudy Fernandez?
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
3:03 pm
Bibby has played great as a floor general and spot shooter, but he needs a pinch defender every play. Trading JC1 would definitely help in shoring up the perimeter if we play Damien & JTO more. I like the SAC trade for bigs, though many argue that Dalembert can’t play the motion offense. I think he’d be a valuable shot blocker/defender w/ Collins when we needed to go big. We can still run Al when we want to go small. Maybe the bigs trade is all that’s necessary, though I’d like to have someone to help with PG play – especially a taller, tougher defender? Wait…wasn’t that supposed to be Pape Sy?
Can you tell it’s Christmas and nothing’s happening for the Hawks, yet the league is boiling so hot the pot’s spilling over?
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
4:10 pm
Fundamentals, I think Bibby and Teague can hold down the point pretty well. And while some may hate the sound of this, I wouldn’t be opposed to having Joe run point 5-8 minutes a game some times. If you think about it, Joe already guards the opposing teams PG most games (think D. Williams ). Having Joe assume the role for 5 minutes wouldn’t be disastrous, as Wade has done it for a good while. Or possibly see if Charlotte would take Josh Powell for Livingston.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 24th, 2010
4:59 pm
Larry Drew Said:
“3) Cleveland is very easy to look past. ”
But, how can The Hawks look past anyone? Who do they think they are? Boston?
O'Brien
December 24th, 2010
5:49 pm
Fundamentals,
I dont think the Hawks can package the TPE as part of a trade package. If they use it, I think it has to be a straight up trade. X-Amount of the TPE for a player (or players).
Ramon,
Agreed. The team would learn to adjust w/o Jamal. Maybe Marvin continues to step up, maybe Teague steps up, and maybe JC2 steps up. But more than likely, our defense will be better.
Jamal,
I know you read this blog, and we appreciate what you do. But the ASG cant afford to give you the money you want, so rather than lose you for nothing over the off-season, the Hawks will be better off tradinig you now. Nothing personal, just business.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
8:41 pm
Not necessarily contraction, but I have heard rumblings of Las Vegas or Seattle making a play to move the Hawks to their city. I’ve heard that the Las Vegas offer would be very lucrative to ASG. Hope ASG doesn’t do it!
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
8:46 pm
Ramon – Yes, I have like the Hawks w/o JC1 recently also. I’m not sure why. We have 63,606,550 committed for next season w/o Pape Sy’s contract added. That will be 64+ mill committed for next season, with a new CBA coming out, with probably a 58m or so hard cap, with teams having 5 years on a graduating scale to reach that amount. The numbers just aren’t there to re-sign Jamal, even though I would love to. He’s played hard in the playoffs the past 2 years, and always looks like he tries.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
8:46 pm
Like should be “liked” in my last post.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
8:49 pm
How about Bibby and a 1st pick for Lou Williams if the Sixers would bite?
And how about Jamal and Mo’ for Gerald Wallace if the Bobcats would take the bait.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
8:50 pm
Or Jamal and Etan for Caron Butler and Ajinca?
slimjr
December 24th, 2010
9:24 pm
“Not necessarily contraction, but I have heard rumblings of Las Vegas or Seattle making a play to move the Hawks to their city. I’ve heard that the Las Vegas offer would be very lucrative to ASG. Hope ASG doesn’t do it!”
BYE….
This is
December 24th, 2010
9:40 pm
This is the most uneducated bloggers ive ever witness as it pertains to basketball. What the H e ll are you people doing?
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
6:41 am
SteveW
Please explain WHY Philly, Charlotte. or Dallas would do any of those silly trades. Why would Dallas make any trade at all, considering their current status? Where is the Logic? Where is it?
O'Brien
December 25th, 2010
10:41 am
If Dallas makes any trades, it would be for Melo (imo).
And the Hawks will not trade Jamal for Gerald Wallace. That would leave them with Marvin ($7.5 mil) and Gerald Wallace $10.5 mil) to play SF. Thats too much money.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
11:36 am
Problem with Melo to Dallas is:
Melo ain’t going to Dallas. He and La La WANTS to be in NYC.
Maybe Chicago (I doubt it), or NJ (I doubt that to – not enough talent to win there). He will be an UFA next Summer, So, Melo is in charge of his destiny.
Denver, can’t send him anywhere, he doesn’t want to be.
tony
December 25th, 2010
12:11 pm
There won’t be any major trades for the hawks because the fanbase is too black. You will be better off supporting the Thrashers where ASG are more incline to spend the BIG BUCKS to sign quality players. Since 6/2010 the Thrashers have made 4 trades even while they are battling it out in court.
By: Kelvin Allen of USA Today
If the Atlanta Thrashers wanted a player who could create buzz in the marketplace, they got him in Dustin Byfuglien. If the Thrashers wanted a player who could add intimidation, size and toughness to a lineup that has smaller scorers, they got him in Byfuglien.
If you want this organization to improve the hawks, I suggest you start looking at players in the upcoming draft.
We should draft Demetri McCamey(pg) or Keith Benson(c). Demetri brings leadership, high assits and stability. Keith brings solid-D and inside scoring. Demetri will be my 1st choice.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
12:28 pm
Too Black?
tony said this:
“There won’t be any major trades for the hawks because the fanbase is too black.”
…..But, I’m Brown. My best friend is white, but she is really pink.
I guess we are all colored people.
But, what does that have to do with the Hawks making a Basketball Trade?
I think tony was looking for the Thrashers Blog and came here by mistake?
slimjr
December 25th, 2010
1:21 pm
Hey Tony, I got news for ya, your race or color you claim wont matter when you go meet with your maker.Back to basketball talk!
slimjr
December 25th, 2010
1:27 pm
“Yes, I have like the Hawks w/o JC1 recently also. I’m not sure why.”
Because JC1 does not play a lick of defense so he wears out his welcome with the coach and then is traded..He has become a “journey man” for that reason.
Dept. of Unintended Irony
December 25th, 2010
1:55 pm
“This is the most uneducated bloggers ive ever witness as it pertains to basketball. ”
enough said.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
2:01 pm
HoopsHype
“Privately, Lakers owner Jerry Buss tells people that Bryant has been worth as much as $80 million a year to his franchise.”
Like I’ve said, “A players value is not based on how many points scored, it’s how many tickets are sold and Neilsen Ratings when the games are played.”
“Andray Blatche mixing it up with Javal McGee outside of a DC Nightclub “Shadow” Friday morning. Al Thornton gets punched by the bouncer while trying to break them two up? – Allegedly.” With those chemistry issues, rumor says the PF Blatche may be shopped around. Too bad he isn’t a Center.
BTW, Chris Kaman is NOT available for trade! Per the Clippers, Good Centers are just too hard to come by! Hello! Trade Dummies did yall hear that?
So, just stop it with The Bibby for __________(Center) trades!
Oh Yeah! Merry X-Mas!

Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2010
2:44 pm
Are you guys watching orlando and boston? Magic up 13-0
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
3:46 pm
Drmaryb – Charlotte is wanting to unload Wallace and Jackson for alledgedly quitting on a bad team. They want to start over so to speak.
Philly thinks that Jrue and Lou can’t coexist, so they’ve been rumored to be willingly to part with Lou. 1st pick to help in rebuilding, and Bibby to teach Jrue how to run the PG.
And Caron is a FA, and they’ve decided to move Ajinca (I’ve heard). + Having Etan and Brendnan Haywood on the same team again would put the Mavs in the news cycle 10x more often than they are now. Being facetitous on that point, but Grandad wants Ajinca so bad, I’m trying to come up with ways to get him!
hawkfan
December 25th, 2010
3:54 pm
hahahaha, “i may be i may be wrong” funniest nba commercial i’ve seen in awhile, funny it can kind of be a bit, charles doing it again, hahaa
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
3:59 pm
Ramon – Can you say Dan Dickau? He was drafted after Demarr, and is no longer in the League.
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
4:01 pm
BTW – We had to trade a future 1st pick to Sacramento for the rights to Dickau. Because we traded away Jamal Tinsley the previous year after we drafted him, because we didn’t think he could play in the NBA. But we thought Dickau could. Sad
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
4:01 pm
Rev- Not any more…
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
4:13 pm
2006 draft – Shelden Williams # 5 – Hawks
#6 Brandon Roye
#8 Rudy Gay
#21 Rajon Rondo
2007 Draft: #11 Acie Law Hawks
#12 Thaddeus Yound
#15 Rodney Stuckey
#23 Wilson Chandler
#26 Aaron Brooks
2005 Draft: #2 Marvin Williams Hawks
#3 Deron Williams
#4 Chris Paul
#5 Raymond Felton
#10 Andrew Bynum
#17 Danny Granger
#30 David Lee
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
4:15 pm
2004 Draft:
#6 Josh Childress Hawks
#7 Luol Deng
#
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
4:17 pm
#8 Andre Iguodala
#15 Al Jefferson
#20 Jameer Nelson
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
4:19 pm
In 2001 we traded Pau Gasol, Lorenzen Wright, and Brevin Knight for Shareef Abdur Rahim and the 27th pick.
SteveW
December 25th, 2010
4:37 pm
But we shouldn’t feel to bad. Look at Detroit in 2003.
#2 Darko Detroit
#3 Carmelo Anthony
#4 Chris Bosh
#5 Dwayne Wade
bigdave
December 25th, 2010
4:44 pm
id like to think that Dwight will grow tired w/ the Orl style of basketball.. on several occasions i watched him get position early and wasnt fed the ball.
it also appears that the refs have equal amount of hate for him as they have for his best friend..
O'Brien
December 25th, 2010
5:21 pm
Merry Christmas one and all,
bigdave,
If Dwight was here, what makes you think he would get the ball early when he has position? Not with JJ here (imo).
drmaryb,
Denver can send Melo to anywhere they want, because he does not have a no-trade clause. The key is the team that trades for Melo must realize that he will be a half season rental, because he will sign with the Knicks over the off-season.
O'Brien
December 25th, 2010
5:23 pm
As bad as Orlando has looked recently, they still put an end to the Spurs win streak, and they just put an end to the Celtics win streak.
Those are 2 huge wins for their confidence going forward.
And go Lakers.
cp
December 25th, 2010
7:31 pm
Merry xmas to my fellow bloggers
MsDee
December 25th, 2010
7:47 pm
WOW!! The Lakers just got creamed by LeBron and Friends!! We are in trouble in our division!! I was so banking on Boston and the Lakers to give us 2 huge x-mas gifts with wins over Miami and Orlando, but both just laid an egg for us..DANG-IT!!!
Grandad
December 25th, 2010
8:08 pm
Merry Christmas to all my family on the blog.
Yawl are just like my real family;
diverse, some older, some young, opinionated,
each one of us is always right and we don’t hesitate
to let everyone know.
My fellow bloggers are colorful, articulate, conservative
and progressive all at once.
You are my family, community, friends, antagonists and
fellow lovers of the greatest game ever.
To all of you;
I give my friendship, my support and my loyalty.
May God Bless,
Grandad
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
8:19 pm
OBrien
Yeah Man, I know. That’s why I said Melo will be an UFA next Summer.
What team will give away talent if Melo doesn’t sign an extension? That was my point back there. But, we shall see. I still say, Melo will go to NYC.
Maybe, CP3 will join him there, with all their ownership issues. Sounds familiar?
Even with Belkin gone, ASKG still sux! Now, they can’t point to Belkin and hide behind him as the reason why we can’t make any moves.
Lakers look terrible and Celtics look very old.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
8:25 pm
Grand-Daddy!
I LOVE YOU so MUCH! You are so cute! Mmmmwah! (A big ole sloppy wet kiss!)
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2010
8:30 pm
drmaryb (*_*) ,
Sorry for delaying so long on answering your question from Thursday. I am married with four children between 17-9 years old. My wife got a kick out of your response to me after the cold shower comment. She is even fine with the fact that you call me Rev Baby. You are the only other woman besides my wife in the whole world that calls baby. I kind of wish she would get a little jealous, but she knows I’m such a nerd that no other woman would have me.
Grandad
December 25th, 2010
8:30 pm
Merry Christmas to TS AKA the Mad Hatter
*[sorry about the screen name]
*[filter will not allow TS to be spelled out]
If you’re out there;
Happy new year and may God provide you and your family
with a special blessing.
Grandad
December 25th, 2010
8:34 pm
Mary Ellen,
That was the best present yet!
Love you too darlin’
G-Dad
Rev in Tampa
December 25th, 2010
8:36 pm
Merry Christmas Grandad! My parents just arrived at my house a couple of hours ago from Palmetto, GA. They said it is cold up there. I thought I’d let you know that it is 68 degrees here in Tampa at 8:30pm. Ya’ll stay bundled up in GA.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
8:45 pm
Rev in Tampa
Ha Ha! I knew you had a daughter, I was just curious.
I am married also, no kids though. I am waiting on God’s Kingdom before starting my family of little ones. Anyway, tell your wife Thanks for sharing.
I’m still gonna’ cal you Rev Baby, with Mrs. Rev’s permission.
Especially, since you lived in my hometown + Aiken, SC.
Merry X-Mas to you and your family.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 25th, 2010
8:55 pm
Rev in Tampa
We got 5 inches of snow at my house in Roswell, GA. (Fulton County).
Hard to believe it’s 68 degrees there.
Hawks better Bust A Move! Magic and Heat are 4 Real!
Ramon
December 25th, 2010
9:33 pm
The Heat are for real. The Magic just caught the Celtics on a bad day. I still don’t believe Orlando is better than Atlanta or Chicago.
slimjr
December 25th, 2010
9:42 pm
WOW!! The Lakers just got creamed by LeBron and Friends!! We are in trouble in our division!! I was so banking on Boston and the Lakers to give us 2 huge x-mas gifts with wins over Miami and Orlando, but both just laid an egg for us..DANG-IT!!!
Don’t worry we have Joe Johnson to step up and get the job done! Just wish he had some help…..
Dept. of Unintended
December 25th, 2010
10:27 pm
Who am I???
Enough said………..
L-QUE
December 25th, 2010
11:10 pm
GRANDAD its good to know there is ole scool on this tool,[computer] I have six daughters thanks to Jehovah they are grown and gone,I LOVE them dearly put I am still paying some college loan money. Seven grands myself , just two grandson 5&2, Iam over come by womens , aguess thats why iam such a good fisherman iam just not a fisherman of men when my kids were born ,so best wishes to all and if i ever say any thing that offend i dont intend to i am trully sorry. great post GD
L-QUE
December 25th, 2010
11:17 pm
Man i just butchered that note [school] i didnt have any sons ,this one finger on the keyboard dont leave time to proof read
doc
December 25th, 2010
11:36 pm
MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!
great reads among great hawks fans although we have to agree to disagree often.
Clyde
December 26th, 2010
1:50 am
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Fire Sund
Clyde
December 26th, 2010
1:52 am
Will The Hawks ever get a team together that could blow out the Lakers in LA?
O'Brien
December 26th, 2010
2:00 am
Hawks have 2 good wins. Both against Orlando.
N.O. have struggled after their hot start, so hopefully hawks can get a win. I think PG play will be key. Can we slow down CP3? And will bibby hit enough shots on offense to offset his horrible defense? Will teague play well?
slimjr
December 26th, 2010
9:53 am
Hawks will be left behind. Bring back Mookie Blaylocke…
Sund=Billy Knight
Dept. of Unintended
December 26th, 2010
9:54 am
who am I???
enough said….
bigdave
December 26th, 2010
10:23 am
o’brien…
i just dont see the selfish player that most see in Joe. keep in mind off misses Joe rarely has the ball in his hands. he’s usually sprinting down to spot up. if Dwight runs directly to the basket, pins his man under the rim, its coming. every Hawk starter is a willing and or skilled passer at his position. im not sure Orl has that luxury. ive seen the ball handler look to feed the post, but hesitates to make the pass.
while we’re on it, was i the only one impressed/encouraged by the ball movement we saw vs. Clev. in a game where Joe had favorable match ups, and appeared to get his shot back, he dished out 7 assist. everyone looked to make the extra pass..
i want to see this team move forward w/ out Jamal. Teague’s play of late has been encouraging. looking to assert himself and contribute his unique skills to the game. clearly we’ve seen him be less aggressive when sharing the backcourt w/ Jamal. hopefully it continues when he returns.
J from the A
December 26th, 2010
11:14 am
This is a trade that has been proposed by (myself and) others on this board, but I (think I) like it:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2bu7smj
Portland receives:
Ja. Crawford
Pachulia
Evans
Atlanta receives:
Camby
Miller
Trade allows the Hawks to go big with more regularity — perhaps even start big more often with more consistency. If Marvin doesn’t like coming off the bench when the Hawks go big, the Hawks could trade him, too. If Marvin adjusts to his role coming off the bench (at least some of the time), the Hawks could become beast.
The only uncertainty I have is whether Andre Miller would be a good fit for the Hawks. But Miller’s contract is non-guaranteed for next year, so it doesn’t really matter.
The trade could be adjusted to take on Pryz instead of Camby, but I like Camby better (even if his contract is a bit less than ideal), and I think Portland would be more willing to make the trade with Camby. If Portland really wanted to they could throw in R. Fernandez. Fernandez may prove to be a valuable “throw in” piece if the Hawks needed to make one more small trade after this one.
J from the A
December 26th, 2010
11:16 am
Doesn’t “selfish” Joe Johnson lead the team in assists?
[rhetorical question, if it wasn't obvious]
drmaryb (*_*)
December 26th, 2010
11:48 am
Haters will always nit-pick the players they dislike, regardless of truth and stats.
lol
December 26th, 2010
11:59 am
Atl gets C Billups
Denver Gets Jamal Crawford, Kyle Korver and B. Scalabrine
Bulls get J.R. Smith
Bulls get an off the dribble-creator
Hawks get a PG
Denver gets a solid backup SG and an expiring in Jamal, Lawson free to become starter
Grandad
December 26th, 2010
5:34 pm
Rev,
sorry I left the blog early last eve.
It snowed here yesterday and all night and is still snowing.
[You know where I live]
It was heartwarming and cheerful to watch the snow in the
twilight with neighborhood Christmas lights, it looked like a
Thomas Kincaid painting.
Happy Holidays my friend, for all your loved ones.
Grandad
December 26th, 2010
5:47 pm
L-QUE,
I get it.
All I can say is bless your heart.
We try to maintain a balance here and make sure
we never get outnumbered or [and this is important]
we never leave one dude by himself.
*[torture by females was not covered in the Geneva concention]
L-QUE
December 26th, 2010
6:32 pm
BEEN GOING DOWN WITH THE TEAMS OF ATLANTA FOR YEARS & YEARS & YEARS THE EXCITEMENT OF THE POSSIBLITY OF WINNING CARRY ME TO THE NEXT TEAR. PUT A POINT GUARD & BENCH SCORING ON YOUR NEW YEARS WISH LIST. AN OUTFIELDER, HOPE FOR THE FALCONS& THRASHERS, BECAUSE ATLANTA APPEAR BEFORE ALL THE [TEAMS] STAY THE COURSE
Astro Joe
December 26th, 2010
8:09 pm
Marvin has been the best 2005 draft pick on the floor in the first half.
And Joe has simply been the best player on the court… by FAR in the first half.
slimjr
December 26th, 2010
8:29 pm
GO Joe Johnson!! You are far the most talented player on the team!!!
slimjr
December 26th, 2010
8:35 pm
Will somebody please bench Josh Smith!!! He’s going to shoot us right out of this game tonight!!! He is brutal to watch with limited offensive skills…BRUTAL……………..Hawks are 8-7 on the road..Mediocrity. We expect that in this town people..This is freaking Georgia……New Orleans will win tonight and Milwaukee will win tomorrow….Go Joe!!!Josh just missed a 3!!! WOW…..
slimjr
December 26th, 2010
8:39 pm
Hawks are 1 for 10 in the third quarter with the three stooges!!! What else is news??