Hawks 98, Cavs 84
Greetings, all-
Sorry this is a little late. I wanted to get out of the arena media work room so the poor gents who have to wait on me to leave so they can lock up could get home a little earlier than normal, and then once I got home, I was futzing around a little bit.
Anyway, I confess I don’t have a ton to offer you. We found out about the Atlanta Spirit settlement right after the first quarter, and I spent much of the rest of the game helping out on a story about that, so I didn’t get to watch much of the game itself. I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m asking you to feel sorry for me because I’m not. Just explainin’ is all. It sounds like it was actually a pretty impressive second half.
Anyway, a brief thought on the settlement. I saw some entries on the blog about how this might affect the team. My guess is not much. One point that Bruce Levenson made is that he’s never had a player or coach or any Hawks or Thrashers staff member ask about how the lawsuit was going. It’s not like it was hanging over anyone’s heads, except for those directly involved, I presume.
It’s worth noting that to buy Steve Belkin out, of course, the ownership group had to give him money to go away, so presumably the shoe box with all the cash in it just got lighter. It’s conceivable that with the settlement out of the way, the Spirit group will be better able to attract investors, which they need. However, I think you’ll agree that this doesn’t likely strike most as a terrific investment. Both teams are having trouble drawing despite both performing fairly well.
I guess this would strike the more bold as a great time to invest in that the Thrashers certainly seem like they’re on the way up and the Hawks figure to be competitive for the near term. But, then, there’s a pretty long history of people not buying tickets that you kind of have to get around.
Anyway, on to the game.
Team was very flat to start. Larry Drew said he’d told the team at shootaround and then before the game to be wary of coming out slow. 1) They’d just beaten Orlando. 2) They were at home. 3) Cleveland is very easy to look past. 4) It’s almost Christmas.
Despite all that – or maybe because of it – they were still not into it at all. It picked up a lot in the second quarter, I thought, and then Drew said he talked to the team at the half, and that’s when the game changed.
Obviously, Joe Johnson’s best game since coming back from surgery. He said it was one of his best games of the season, saying he hasn’t felt in rhythm much this season. Drew said he called a lot of plays for him and that Johnson was playing with confidence. I haven’t seen a ton of games, but I can’t recall one in which Johnson had such a height advantage over the guy guarding him.
Didn’t get to talk to Marvin Williams afterwards, but a great game, evidently. Perhaps the not starting really did get under his skin. I’ll say this — he invariably is in a good mood and has a good attitude so I was a little surprised at how much not starting Monday bothered him. If that was the bee in his bonnet tonight, maybe it’s a stick that Larry Drew can use with him. As for how often he’d go with Jason Collins at 5, I’m not sure, but I imagine it’d be every time they play someone with a dominant center.
Some Drew quotes:
“We tried to exploit some mismatches that we thought were to our advantage. That’s the way we have to play. That’s the way we want to play. As I told the guys, we have enough play sets that we can get into different things where teams can’t lock in on us. Certainly, when you see what you think is an advantageous matchup you’ve got to go right to it and that’s what we did tonight.”
On the second half:
“Didn’t do a whole lot as far as any type of adjustments, but what we did was I thought we did thing sa lot harder we were fighting through screens a lot harder. We were making a conscious effort of boxing out. We were pushing the basketball off the boards and when we got out there and started running, that’s when we were at our best.”
From reading the game thread — I really wish I’d heard “dagger in the coffin.” Thanks for sharing that.
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287 comments Add your comment
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:19 am
Grandad, LeBron only said the league would be better if there were fewer teams. And he stated the league was better in the 80s when there were fewer teams. How many people are you really going to find who disagree with that point of view? He even came back and said he’s not saying those exact teams should be contracted, but just in general ‘Not saying let’s take New Jersey and let’s take Minnesota out of the league. But hey, you guys are not stupid, I’m not stupid, it would be great for the league.’..
He has merits to his statements. When before have you seen FIVE teams in the same season (only first half of the season) go on 8-10 game winning streaks? And in most of those streaks, not a single team played more than two or three playoff teams. There are twice as more bad teams as they are good teams this season. In the east, there will be two teams in the playoffs that truly SUCK. In the West, the bottom teams are even worse than the bottom teams of the East. There isn’t much competition any more. The league is more about money than it is about basketball and competition. That’s the reason the league went to 7 games in the first round instead of 5 games. That’s the reason there are so many days off between games in the playoffs (unlike baseball). Having one of the first 3-5 picks used to mean something in the league. Now it only means you have to wait 3-4 years before you know if you have a good player or not.
Many of the players in the league now, wouldn’t make a single team back in the 80s. Lebron was asked a question, and he answered it. We can’t get mad when players answer the questions honestly. People used to get mad at MJ because he seemed to always be political correct. Other players in the league would be pissed at MJ, because he wouldn’t go on record saying what he really felt. Now we have players who give us their opinions (rather positive or negative) and we’re upset? No fan want’s the team to be moved from the city that they’re in. However, most fans would admit the competition isn’t like it used to be.
To make it worse, David Stern is seriously exploring building new franchises in other countries, even though the product is already diluted.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:22 am
SteveW, Siler is in Phoenix with a team that has been weak in the front court all season (the reason they made the trade), and have only played in 6 games this entire season. Sorry to say, but the man must be overrated by the fans.
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:33 am
you might even add a Griz squad.. was watching memphis/ nj game Fratello was speaking on how the team struggles to draw numbers. furthermore on Bobcats.. Charlotte has a strong following of DC sports im sure they can follow the Wizards and NC’s native son..
if NBA was to consider contraction i have no idea how they would format qualifications. however, im sure they will consider recent success and of course media markets.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
12:36 am
To LbJ [AKA] Ass-Clown defenders:
He named teams and players.
He has no business.
What is LeBron 25?
How much wisdom does one acquire @ 25?
I’m not debating his points. valid or not.
He has no right to speak on those points.
He’s not mature enough.
What do you think the union thinks of his statement?
Did he think of the 90 players out of a job?
[I get it they're millioaires...so is he]
what about the 20 – 30 coaches out of work?
All the support people.
Folks who work at the games, the ecomomy of the cities.
Is the great LeBron going to decide??
Did he even think of the lowest guy on the rung @ Minnesota?
What if they contract Detroit?
What happens to that great city, already ravaged by the ecomomy?
You reckon he thought of anyone besides himself?
I think not.
Did You?
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:38 am
then again, they would never. in a million years. less games, less revenue.. so on and so on. end of story.
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:44 am
Grandad..
he’s well w/ in his “rights” to speak on it.. as is sir charles to speak out on keeping kids in the college game longer (which i agree with). i mean, its not like we have to worry about Lebron making these decisions.. lets continue to let him throw dirt on his image. who cares.. i just think it would build a stronger league. the league is watered down.. as 25 yr old myself, its not hard to see this..
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:45 am
Ramon – I know, Siler is terrible, but as a 4th C, he may develop. I’m not even opposed to bringing Shelden back to the Hawks. He’s quietly having his best season, and 6.2 boards in 20 mpg is not bad by anyone’s standards. That’s better than Josh and equal to Al in Rebounds per minute.
We have 63,606,550 committed to salaries next season, so I’m going to guess that draft picks and FA minimum guys are going to fill out our roster for awhile. That’s why Sund likes his core, financially he’s almost stuck with them in a certain sense. I understand trades, but Sund has it set up where Bibby expires after next season, then is it ZaZa and Josh the year after that? We’ll have to use ZaZa’s money to re-sign Josh probably. Then Marvin expires the year after that if I’m not mistaken (if he excersises his player option, which he probably will).
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:45 am
Pendegraft better draft right….
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
12:48 am
More:
Hotel industry
Restaurant industry
Transportation industry
Media:
TV, radio, newspapers…beat writers
Merchandise
Coaches, scouts, trainers, medical staff
Front office staff, all the way down to ticket takers
Custodial & maintenance
X 6 more or less!
I’m certain I left out much.
Oh, but LbJ would be happy, let’s do it. Yeah…..King!
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
12:48 am
its not up to professional sports or any other recreational entity to save our country’s economic state. if we’re banking on that, we’re in deep doo doo..
im no fan of lebron.. but i respect his candidness. “im not into saving franchises” was classic. hey, i would’ve stayed and played for the crib.. but guys are motivated by different things..
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:48 am
Grandad, actually the income for the league as a whole may would be better. There would be more games sold out. Also that would improve college play, because as many players wouldn’t come out, because they wouldn’t be guaranteed being drafted just on potential. Grandad, you speak about his age and wisdom. Your age doesn’t make you wise. If you are 86 years old and lived 86 years in a bubble, you won’t be too wise. Actually most men who are wise at an old age, was wise at a young age. There are just as many old fools as they are young fools. If you don’t think so, visit Florida, lol. Lol better yet, visit Congress, lol. If he has an opinion and he has validity backing that opinion, then he has a right to speak his mind on that fact. And speaking of wisdom, as a wise man, you should know in ALL THINGS, times come when its better to cut off the foot, so you don’t lose the entire body (as said in the Bible ‘Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.’ Matt 7:19).
Also many of these cities you’re speaking about are truly losing MORE money as a whole from the NBA franchise than they’re making. From the tax exemptions, to the pollution and city resources (money) that it takes just to maintain an unsuccessful franchise. If you look at the Seattle situation, you will see the Sonics were costing the city more money than it was making them. So that actually shows Lebron does understand business and have some sense of wisdom about himself. He basically said he would like the league to become more competitive (making it harder on his career), and you call him self centered for that?
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
12:55 am
Also Grandad how many more salaries could some of the owners put into their businesses to hire more employees, for the players, coaches, and executives salaries? Larry Brown made over $8 million a year to coach. How many employees would that have been for any company (because most owners have some kind of company they’re running also)? You’re giving 30 coaches, over $2 million a piece (close to $134 million total) annually, when they don’t even spend the money (nor the players). So the money isn’t even going back into the market or the economy (because as a wise man, I’m sure you’re aware the average rich/wealthy man does not spend money. while the average middle class American spends 65-80% of his income if not more).
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
12:59 am
Lets look at some Hawks draft picks:
2007 – 11th pick Acie Law
2006 – 5th pick Shelden Williams
2005 – 2nd pick Marvin Williams; 1st pick of the 2nd round – Salim Stoudamire
2004 – 6th pick Josh Childress
Now it really gets bad:
2001 – 3rd pick Pau Gasol whom we traded. Just like the Falcons have had Drew Brees, Brett Farve and Matt Schaub as QB’s
2000 – 6th pick DeMarr Johnson – who may have been good except for that accident.
1999 – 17th pick – Cal Bowdler; 20th pick Dion Glover; 27th pick Jumaine Jones
1998 – 20th pick Roshown Mcleod
1997 – 22nd pick Ed Gray
1996 – 28th pick Priest Lauderdale
‘93 – 15th pick – Doug Edwards
‘92 – 10th pick – Adam Keefe
‘91 – 9th pick – Stacy Augmon; 15th pick Anthony Avent
I will spare us Dallas Comegys, Roy Marble, Rumeal Robinson, Billy Thompson and Jon Koncak. It’s a wonder we still have a team in ATL.
SteveW
December 24th, 2010
1:00 am
Now I left out a few good ones, but we get the picture
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:00 am
SteveW, I would venture to say if you put up any team besides the Spurs, you would see over a 10-13 year span, they have about the same success rate with the draft as any other team.
bigdave
December 24th, 2010
1:00 am
Ramon.. agreed.
i don’t judge people based on age simply because it can be misleading. u have older individuals with maturity levels of school aged children. there is no age on exposure and experiences. wisdom is valued b/c its directly obtained from your experiences.
considering his lifestyle alone, and his apparent fall from grace, james is more than qualified to give his opinion on the league. the nba is a a brand.. and james is a high commodity.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:04 am
Demarr Johnson was the last player drafted in the first round by the Hawks who isn’t in the league today. And Johnson was a good player until the injuries.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:05 am
LeBron may be a jackass generally speaking, but he is 100% correct about contraction. You need either two superstars or three All-Stars to have a realistic shot at winning a title in the NBA. Are there enough All-Stars and superstars to fill the rosters of 30 teams? Hell no. And this is why while teams go from worst to first in the NFL every year, and small market teams even manage to make the playoffs regularly in the no-salary-cap-having MLB, the haves and have-nots are pretty much set in stone in the NBA unless a have-not happens to get lucky in the lottery.
Really, this problem is being masked by the fact that more than half the league makes the playoffs. Small-market, low budget teams who don’t have the means or the luck necessary to land superstars can still try to claim to their fan bases that they are successful because they manage to get into the playoffs with 7th or 8th seeds.
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:07 am
Najeh, exactly. And think if Oklahoma didn’t land Durant (in Seattle) would the Thunder be owned by the NBA by now?
cp
December 24th, 2010
1:08 am
That new article on the Hawks sums it up as why its hard to be a fan of this team. This front office is sold on this core that they dont see that they are probably maxed out. They are content with just making the playoffs. The Hawks are stuck with being good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make any serious noise. It is what it is.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:12 am
As for the Spurs-Magic game earlier today, I’m not too worried about it. The Spurs played their worst game of the season. In an 82 game season, teams are not going to bring it every game, and the Spurs didn’t bring it tonight. The Magic roster still has major problems, the biggest being that they only have two big men. I still think in the long run the Magic are no better, and perhaps worse, than they were before.
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:15 am
Roshown Mcleod > Marvin Williams
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:17 am
I’m boycotting the Hawks games because they don’t play enough rap music
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:17 am
“Did he think of the 90 players out of a job?
[I get it they're millioaires...so is he]
what about the 20 – 30 coaches out of work?
All the support people.
Folks who work at the games, the ecomomy of the cities.
Is the great LeBron going to decide??”
Do you think the NBA is going to think twice about any of those people if they decide to contract a franchise? Hell no. They are going to look at the bottom line. If they determine that a location can’t be profitable in the long term, they are of course going to contract. And quite frankly, the NBA is a private corporation, not a jobs program. You can’t expect a corporation in a free enterprise system to create more jobs than it can afford just to benefit others. That’s just not the way the economy works.
LeBron is speaking from the point of view of increasing profitability and competition in the league. Say what you want about his personality, but he has proven to have a lot of business savvy ever since entering the league, and in this particular case, he is right on point.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:18 am
“I’m boycotting the Hawks games because they don’t play enough rap music”
And what rap music they do play is played on the keyboard because they can’t afford to pay the licensing fee to play the real thing.
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:21 am
Maybe the Hawks need to take notes from the Falcons. They pack the Dome because they have a championship caliber team.
Clyde
December 24th, 2010
1:22 am
Shaking My Got Dam Head
They need to give that dam keyboard up. Kiss Cam Too
slimjr
December 24th, 2010
1:23 am
@Steve W
‘2007 – 11th pick Acie Law
2006 – 5th pick Shelden Williams
2005 – 2nd pick Marvin Williams; 1st pick of the 2nd round – Salim Stoudamire
2004 – 6th pick Josh Childress
Now it really gets bad:
2001 – 3rd pick Pau Gasol whom we traded. Just like the Falcons have had Drew Brees, Brett Farve and Matt Schaub as QB’s
2000 – 6th pick DeMarr Johnson – who may have been good except for that accident.
1999 – 17th pick – Cal Bowdler; 20th pick Dion Glover; 27th pick Jumaine Jones
1998 – 20th pick Roshown Mcleod
1997 – 22nd pick Ed Gray
1996 – 28th pick Priest Lauderdale
‘93 – 15th pick – Doug Edwards
‘92 – 10th pick – Adam Keefe
‘91 – 9th pick – Stacy Augmon; 15th pick Anthony Avent
I will spare us Dallas Comegys, Roy Marble, Rumeal Robinson, Billy Thompson and Jon Koncak. It’s a wonder we still have a team in ATL”
Wow, no wonder this team has not won anything! Those lousy draft picks are brutal!!
Thanks Steve W. for that info dude…
Sund=Knight
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:30 am
Najeh Davenpoop’s Contraction Rankings
———-
1. Memphis
2. Charlotte
3. Minnesota
4. New Orleans
5. Sacramento
6. LA Clippers
I can understand why people might include Toronto and New Jersey, but I wouldn’t contract them. New Jersey has nowhere to go but up from here, with their billionaire owner and pending move to NYC. Toronto may be in the dumps now but Raptors fans are really passionate (I know plenty of them, they are borderline delusional) and they have the support of an entire country’s worth of basketball fans.
If the NBA was going to contract teams, though, they would be foolish not to use that as an opportunity to get Donald Sterling out of the league.
A 24-team league without those six teams and with players like Chris Paul, Tyreke Evans, Rudy Gay, Gerald Wallace, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, etc. dispersed among the remaining teams? I think that would be pretty fun to watch.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:33 am
Blog ate my last post;
I’m not saying I’m wise.
I am saying that with age comes wisdom.
Also Ramon your 12:48 was mostly absurd and a farce.
I disagree vehemently with yawl on this subject.
Once again, I’m not debating “contraction”.
Just aggravated @ one immature millionaire blustering
on a serious topic. [He's gonna get his either way]
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:37 am
Grandad, what would be your reaction if the presumably more mature Charles Barkley said the exact same thing?
Because I can tell you this — there are plenty of old people who agree with LeBron on this issue.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:38 am
Najeh Davenpoop
My contraction list:
PHX
ATL
Minnesota
Sac-town
N.O.
Charlotte
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:39 am
And while were @ it Milwaukee & Detroit.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:39 am
In fact, I would argue that NBA owners and David Stern were being greedy — and you could even say “immature” — by expanding to markets in which they were likely to fail in the first place.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:41 am
Phoenix and Atlanta are the 12th and 9th largest metropolitan areas in the USA respectively. No way the NBA abandons those markets unless there are really, really extenuating circumstances. Those cities have teams in all four major sports leagues for a reason.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:43 am
I’m quite certain the players union “loves” his business savvy.
Once again;
I’m not debating *contraction*.
It’s morally wrong for him to speak out on contraction,
given his wealth.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:44 am
As an alternative idea, the NBA could keep their current 30 teams and institute relegation like soccer leagues do in Europe where the six worst teams go to the equivalent of the D-League each year. It would be damn near impossible to get the owners to agree to this, so it’s really more of a pipe dream, but it would definitely make the league much more competitive.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:45 am
Yawl have your opinions, I have mine.
Good evening & have a merry Christmas all!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 24th, 2010
1:46 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_and_relegation
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:51 am
Grandad, we can agree to disagree. Just answer one question for me though. Realistically, how much money do you think the Thrashers and the Hawks are making the city of Atlanta? And how often have you been in another city outside of Georgia or Tennessee and saw a Hawks jersey that wasn’t of Dominique’s? And whatever city you live in, how many careers would you say truly deserve $6 million dollars a year? Do you realize how many salaries at $35K a year can be paid out (and benefits) for that amount? Carrying on when you really can’t afford it (as many franchises are doing) is the very thing that has the country in the debt that it is in now. The citizens collectively tried to purchase things that we really couldn’t afford (credit cards, homes, cars, luxury items, addiction to Starbucks-Susan Orman biggest pet peeves). The federal government has tried to purchase things on credit that it really couldn’t afford (not even going to go down the list). The state government has purchased things they couldn’t afford (a multimillion dollar pond in Perry, GA just to start).
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
1:56 am
Grandad, every one in the league who would make the decision has wealth. Believe it or not Lebron has a huge say in the Players Association (along with the other wealthy players). So who in the league can speak about contraction but it would be acceptable for you? Pape Sy? Garrett Siler?
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
1:58 am
Najeh Davenpoop
Final word;
I’m not against contraction.
I do value ‘your’ opinion.
I think gentlemen and ladies who are more learned than myself,
who have studied this subject at length, who have extensive
economic backgrounds with experience to back it up, should
be the ones to advise the decision makers
[both the owners and the union] what the most sensible course
for the entire league would be. Then with counsel and deliberation
[I doubt they use prayer] a wise leader should make a sound
decision then stand it.
Grandad
December 24th, 2010
2:14 am
Ramon…..Last post…..answering your questions.
(1) I don’t know?
(2) Several:
Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Pete Maravich,
(3) Five:
Teachers, Physicians, Nurses, & Firefighters, & Police
(4) Either I didn’t understand question # 4,
or you answered it yourself.
Happy Holidays Ramon!
Ramon
December 24th, 2010
2:26 am
Happy Holidays, Grandad!
EmirS.
December 24th, 2010
9:37 am
Co – Sign @ Grandad 12:36 a.m.
EmirS.
December 24th, 2010
9:39 am
Co – Sign @ Grandad 12:48 a.m.
O'Brien
December 24th, 2010
9:55 am
I think the Magic will be forced to make another trade at the trade deadline. Because the team they have will not beat a healthy Celtics team (imo).
As for contraction, I agree with LeBron. The talent in the league is watered down, and contraction would help.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
10:33 am
Ramon 1:51 AM – you mentioned the pond in Perry? Do you work in fisheries management? It’s sad that Purdue or DNR Headquarters can push for that center, while closing one of it’s best hatcheries in Dawson, GA. Maybe Cordele, but not Dawson?
Is Battie or Toriaf enough for ORL? Would they need more? I tend to think Dwight will demand more to stay long term.
Fundamentals
December 24th, 2010
10:49 am
I guess I should’ve said almost closed Dawson to afford the Perry facility.
Any one in Sac town we need as they are starting to grumble?
ReddJonn68
December 24th, 2010
10:52 am
Dang Cleveland, you guys look as bad as the Wizards!