Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 91, Magic 81
Al and Co. made Dwight work for his. (Curtis Compton / ccompton@ajc.com)
- You can put asterisks next to this W and the one at Orlando if you want. The Magic were without Jameer and just getting over the flu (a fact they were sure to remind everyone) for that Dec. 6 game. This time they sent out three rotation players who hadn’t even practiced with the team yet.
- “We caught them at the right time,” J.J. said. “They’ve got new guys who haven’t gotten acclimated. They were a little vulnerable and we took advantage.”
- With that out of the way, let’s acknowledge that the Hawks gave a good effort tonight and have seemed to figure out a plan for dealing with their arch-nemesis. “To be successful against them we’ve obviously got to be physical with Dwight,” Twin said. “We’ve got a lot of big guys on this team and we’ve got to use our fouls against him.”
- I was as skeptical as anyone when the Hawks re-signed Twin and said Woody should have played him more so he’d be ready to do battle Dwight. Got to admit that in three games he’s done a competent job bodying up to Dwight and making him shoot over him. He lacks mobility and hops but he’s smart and stout.
- “Any time you have to battle Dwight straight up, you don’t see many guys who can do that,” L.D. said. “He’s not a defensive stopper by any stretch of the imagination but he makes him work, he makes him earn it. He plays him with a physicality. That’s what we need.”
- Twin’s play against Dwight does two good things for the Hawks. One, it means they don’t have to scramble so much off of double teams and weaken their already suspect perimeter defense.
- Two, it allows Al to get some space to do work off the dribble, shake free for perimeter shots and not get worn down ( or in foul trouble) from leaning on Dwight.
- Dwight had 19 points on 14 shots but six turnovers. He started spending a lot of his time griping at the refs, always a good sign for his opponents.
- “Hats off to the bigs,” Smoove said. “Zaza came in, Etan and, number one, Jason Collins came in and played big minutes and just did whatever it took to frustrate Dwight.”
- Zaza played 11 (foul-shortened) minutes and had seven rebounds and a physical presence around the rim. Josh Powell, who usually does not provide that kind of tenacity or rebounding, got a DNC-CD.
- Fantastic line for Al: 24 points 10 for 15, 11 rebounds, four assists, no turnovers. He was equally effective with moves to the basket and the usual pick-and-pops.
- That fourth quarter was the textbook for how Marvin can help this team. The Magic used a small lineup for much of the period and Marvin collected five of their nine missed shots. He waited on the wings for the ball to swing to him and made open shots and also earned five free-throw attempts.
- Jameer predictably got by Bibby a few times but Bibby did a good job of at least making him go to where there was help. This was another game where Bibby more than offset his defensive deficiencies with his shotmaking. He got the Hawks going in the third quarter.
- It’s clear that Joe is going to play the same way whether he’s rusty or not. He forced a few shots and had five turnovers.
- Orlando’s newcomers combined for 27 points while making 6 of 23 shots. “Tonight the adjustment wasn’t so much on the offensive end but our defense,” J-Rich said. “It’s going to take a while for us to get used to each other but we’ll just have to keep working.”
- The Hawks went 5-5 in the stretch of 10 games that started in Miami and included Orlando twice, San Antonio and Boston. The Hawks were 2-3 in those games and 3-2 in the others with brutal losses at Detroit and New Jersey.
- “We need our guys to play with a sense of urgency every time we step on the floor, irregardless of who our opponent is,” L.D. said. “I think that’s been the disheartening thing, especially with our losses in New Jersey and our loss up in Detroit.”
- “We’ve been up and down,” Twin said. “I’m not worried about how we’re going to play against the Miamis and the Orlandos. For us we have to come into each game with that mentality of knowing were going to be in for a fight each game. I think there are a few games this season we definitely let slip away.”
Michael Cunningham
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224 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
December 21st, 2010
11:54 pm
In order for the Hawks to have a chance to sign him though, they would absolutely have to get rid of Marvin and Zaza. No chance with those salaries on the books.
SteveW
December 21st, 2010
11:54 pm
The Hawks may be as low as a 6 seed in the playoffs looking long term.
1) Celtics – surprised me to this point. Thought they would tank in the regular season again and then win the East like last year.
2) Heat – Signing Dampier really helped their season. Getting Miller back will also. Less wear and tear on Super Friends.
3) Magic – I still think they overtake the Bulls, especially with Noah out. But the Bulls are playing great.
4) Bulls – They’re stacked and young for the most part. Not great at SG however. And Noah’s out and Boozer’s injury prone, so they may have a tough time.
5) Knicks – I personally don’t think they can keep it up, but we’ll see. We coulda’ had Landry Fields, had 2 shots at him at 27 and 31 in the draft. Kids a nice a player.
6) Hawks – They may make it up to 3 seed if the Magic don’t jell, the Bulls have frontcourt injury problems and the Knicks fade. All 3 of those things are possible.
7 and 8 – Don’t care at this point.
If the above held, we would play the Magic in the 1st round. I would take the Magic, but not by much. And the Hawks would play better than last year, maybe win 2 or even 3 games.
Would that keep LD’s job? Would a 46-36 record keep LD’s job? I hope so. We may even go 48-34 but all that’s just guess work. That’s why they play the games.
SteveW
December 21st, 2010
11:58 pm
I say we have a Hawks family reunion for next season:
Sign Acie as the 3rd PG
Sign Solomon Jones as a backup Big
Sign Shelden as a backup Big
Okay, as I typed that iI felt that was a really bad idea.
SteveW
December 22nd, 2010
12:01 am
The Bulls won by 43 tonight with Taj Gibson and Noah missing. Wow!
reality check
December 22nd, 2010
12:06 am
I agree. Al is a spitting image of Charles Oakley. Decent offensively but soft as Charmin defensively. I trade him for a strong defender. Lopez has at hofords lunch regularly and put up 36 points against him recently.
Got to get defenders on the front line.
reality check
December 22nd, 2010
12:07 am
With Al and Collins and Zaza at the rack we are definitely a 6 maybe 7th seed and out in the first round. Drew is also a weak coach.
Last year was better than this one for the hawks.
reality check
December 22nd, 2010
12:09 am
I would feel no pain trading al for Lopez,
reality check
December 22nd, 2010
12:11 am
Woodson was and is Clearly a better coach than Drew. Thats why drew was the assistant. Hes not head coach material.
MICHAEL VICK MVP!
ATL FAN
December 22nd, 2010
12:41 am
RADMANOVIC
ATL FAN
December 22nd, 2010
12:41 am
Where is Pape Sy???
Najeh Davenpoop
December 22nd, 2010
12:44 am
12 points, 8 boards, and 5 blocks for Kurt Thomas in that Bulls rout.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 22nd, 2010
12:48 am
Damn, the Hawks only have four more national TV appearances left this year, and none until late February.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 22nd, 2010
12:59 am
Najeh said this:
“I would gladly trade everyone on this team for Dwight Howard, who the Hawks might have had a chance to draft in ‘04 had it not been for Terry Stotts’ b-tch azz winning a bunch of meaningless games in March and April to take the Hawks out of contention for him.”
Ha Ha! Damn Najeh I forgot all about that B!tch Azz Terry Stotts!
He told the media about Jason Terry, “I wasn’t impressed with his game tonight!”
Jason retorted, ” And, I wasn’t impressed with his coaching either!”
That was the highlight of The Terry Stotts Era for me!
Najeh, you dug deep in your anals to pull that Terry Stotts card out!
LMBAO!
Classic stuff right there! We could have had Dwight Howard, but being
The Hawks?
David Stern would have announced, ” With the 1st Pick, The Atlanta Hawks select “Pig Miller”
slimjr
December 22nd, 2010
1:26 am
keep shooting 3’s Josh and watch your team get blown out again for the 3rd consecutive time in the playoffs
Ken Strickland
December 22nd, 2010
2:17 am
J FROM THE A-The team would be better off, especially financially, if they traded for Nene, who’ll also be a FA after the season, rather than CAnthony.
For the record, I wouldn’t make the trade I proposed either.
Ramon
December 22nd, 2010
3:44 am
Ok, Guys, crazy trade offer here.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2f3aqjs
Hawks get:
G. Wallace
N. Mohammed
S. Livingston
Nuggets get:
Z. Pachulia
Stephen Jackson
D. Augustin
Bobcats get:
N. Hilario
C. Billups
M. Evans
J. Teague
Ramon
December 22nd, 2010
3:54 am
This trade would leave the line up as:
Bibby, Joe, Wallace, Josh, Al
2nd
Livingston, Wilkins, Marvin, Powell, Collins
Reserves
JC2, Muhammed,
Najeh Davenpoop
December 22nd, 2010
5:11 am
Wanna see something funny?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_ogtc-rnd8&feature=related
MsDee
December 22nd, 2010
5:15 am
@Najeh,
Now that’s what ya call COMEDY!!
terrell
December 22nd, 2010
7:15 am
If the next blog reads” Hawks release Mo Evans, and LD plans on bringing Marvin off the bench for the remainder of the season”, it’ll be the merriest Christmas I’ve ever had.
it was not a bad pick
December 22nd, 2010
7:44 am
Moving Marvin makes me sick to my stomach…Josh would be a better option as a 6th man…Marvin is a starting sf in the nba that just needs touches
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2010
8:17 am
Orlando lost again last night, for the 8th time in 9 games. And their next 2 opponents are Spurs and Celtics. Yikes.
And they have dropped to 6th in the conference, 3rd in the division. I wonder if their fans are panicking.
it was not a bad pick,
Although Marvin defends his position well, one of the reasons why Josh starts is because our perimeter defense is horrible, and Josh helps to clean up some of the mistakes at the rim.
And I think moving Marvin to the bench is the better idea, because that way, he would get more touches. As a starter, there just isnt much touches available for him.
Ramon,
Livingston was available this offseason, but the Hawks didnt even bring him in for a workout.
it was not a bad pick
December 22nd, 2010
8:36 am
O’Brien
I get it..you are right..he will get more touches, and he makes the bench deeper.i hope he takes to his new role…Also we need Al at the 4 at all times..he really is our best player if he is at the pf…..good move..I hope josh takes his butt to the post, he is a huge mismatch at the 3 in the post…
Do you think ZaZa should start over collins.when he did start, he was more effective, woodson took his confidence when he decided to start Al at the 5?…
go to youtube and look at Freeze me remix by young dro..Josh in the video trying to look tuff lol
O'Brien
December 22nd, 2010
10:01 am
it was not a bad pick,
ZaZa should not start over Collins. ZaZa has a better offensive game, but if we are playing a big like Dwight, Twin does a better job of playing Dwight tough (straight up).
And if we have Al and Josh at the 4 and 3, we wont need that much scoring from the Center position.
As for Josh, under the right coach (like Popovich), I think he would have been an all star already.
He needs an established coach like that to get on him, and stay on him, because Josh’s biggest problem is Josh. As good as he is, and as good as he can be, he needs to stay focused at all times, and to play to his strengths more often.
slimjr
December 22nd, 2010
10:18 am
Duck(Marvin) belongs on the bench. That’s his comfort zone.He came off the bench in college..Took six years for Hawks brass to figure that out?? Thats why this organization wins NOTHING……
HAWKS=LOSERS
RICK SUND=BILLY KNIGHT( WORST GM IN HAWKS HISTORY)
slimjr
December 22nd, 2010
10:20 am
Shop Josh asap..
ZAZA= “The BIG STIFF”
SteveW
December 22nd, 2010
10:32 am
I would at least try ZaZa starting and see what happens. He is a human foul machine, so he might not last long. But he’s bigger than JC3, so you would think he could body up Dwight. He’s bigger (Ht. and WT) than Dwight for that matter.
J from the A
December 22nd, 2010
10:33 am
With the rumors that Andre Miller may be on the trading block, do you think Miller is someone that can improve the Hawks? He is a solid PG. Plus, If I am not mistaken, he has a team option for next year, so financially, it is not too risky of a move. I am just not sure if he really, truly would fill the Hawks’ specific needs.
And speaking of Portland players, I’ve been saying for over two weeks now that I think Portland would be willing to let Camby go for the right offer (and I don’t think the right offer would have to be that extreme). I would really like the Hawks to pick up Camby (or someone like Camby).
Possible trade:
Jamal Crawford
Zaza Pachulia
Mo Evans
1st round pick
FOR
Marcus Camby
Andre Miller
J from the A
December 22nd, 2010
10:39 am
New lineup
Camby/Collins/Horford
Horford/Smith
Smith/Williams
JJ/Teague
Bibby/Miller (OR Miller/Bibby?)
Nice 9-man rotation here. Spot minutes for Wilkens, Powell, and JC2 as needed. Of course, there is a lot of additional flexibility with this roster (e.g., JJ can play the 3, Camby the 4, Marvin the 2, 4, etc.).
J from the A
December 22nd, 2010
10:40 am
Not saying I am convinced that this trade would help put us over the top, but it would be an interesting trade that could possibly help.
MARVIN FOR 6th MAN OF THE YEAR!!! (yeah, I am jumping on that bandwagon.)
it was not a bad pick
December 22nd, 2010
10:49 am
O’Brien
i agree with you about Zaza not startng, i wonder if Drew was scared to make Josh a 6th man..I dont think he would accept it.I think he would really shine in that role…. the hawks are a better team with Marvin at the sf..Josh is really a tweener..to small for Pf and just not a good enough shooter to play the 3..
J from the A
December 22nd, 2010
10:56 am
Josh is not a good enough shooter to play the 3?!
How many forwards (small or power) have a better 3-point shooting percentage than Josh? Five. That is all. [1. Bonner 6. Aminu 10. R. Jefferson 14. B. Cook 15. J. Jones 18. J. Smith]
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
10:59 am
The #1 thing I realized from the ORL/PHX trade is that to get a player you really want (J.Rich), you gotta take the “bad” too (Hedo – even though he may work great going back to Orlando).
With that said, the BEST team we can trade with right now is Portland.
Andre Miller and Pryzbilla NEED to be sought after. Miller is not that athletic but averages 7 assists a game and I’m sure defends better than Bibby does.
Pryzbilla is that Center who puts you on your back and won’t help a player back up after a foul (unlike Horford and Marvin).
So, let’s offer Jamal + ZaZa + Teague or Bibby and see if we can get these guys. I might like bringing Bibby off the bench in an Eddie House-type role.
PORTLAND IS GARBAGE THIS YEAR. THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. THEY WANT JAMAL. JAMAL AND B.ROY ARE GREAT BUDS FROM SEATTLE.
MAKE IT HAPPEN SUND
AND START COLLINS AND BRING DUCK OFF THE BENCH
GO HAWKS
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
11:01 am
What to make of this Dallas wanting Melo badly rumor?
Dallas is the hottest team in the NBA [besides maybe Boston].
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it? Or is Dallas unsure if its current roster could beat SAS in the earlier rounds or LAL in the WCF?
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
11:04 am
J from the A,
Ha I was thinking about PTL and think they are the best team to trade with. Glad you agree
J from the A
December 22nd, 2010
11:06 am
@JeJe: Pryzbilla > Camby*? Or is that Camby > Pryzbilla*, but you are just not sure if Portland would go for that? I would also be real hesitant to give up Teague. But that is probably just me.
*Contexted to Hawks specific needs
Dallas always wants every player. lol.
J from the A
December 22nd, 2010
11:08 am
Yeah, I’ve been saying for a few weeks now that Portland should be a prime trade target. I think they are willing to move either Camby or Pryzbilla, and now with the rumors that Miller might be on the trade block, it makes a trade with Portland even more interesting.
However, I think any of these trades would probably end up being an at-trade-deadline trade. Portland might want to see what their playoff chances are looking like before making any half-way major trade. Either way, I think Portland realizes that they are in (semi-)rebuilding mode.
i_am_soulstar
December 22nd, 2010
11:17 am
The Magic are now super deep at PG spot. I’m pretty sure they’re willing to give up Chris Duhon or Jason Williams to get a backup C. Just not sure if they’re willing to give one of those guys up to a division rival.
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
11:18 am
J,
PTL has no shot at competing this year. I’m sure B.Roy is tired of this. They’d take Jamal in heartbeat. I’d take any of those centers. I’ve always loved Pryz, but Camby is nice too (contract sucks doesn’t it though?)
Northcyde (from yesterday): fair enough. Maybe Collins shouldn’t start EVERY game, but don’t you agree Marvin coming off the bench and playing in the 4th works better? he plays his best in the 4th qtr recently and we have no scoring at all off the bench with Jamal out.
Why not start ZaZa on Varejao or at least ensure he gets good minutes tonight?
ZaZa, while not skilled, is our Varejao. He doesn’t rebound as well but is a pest and gets in guys’ heads (no homo)
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
11:22 am
If I was B.Roy, I’d sit the rest of the year and come back in 2011 fully healthy. This is what I think Yao should’ve done one of these years.
I also feel Sund should know PTL well, given its proximity to Seattle and being on the West Coast (he got Jamal from GSW).
Come on Sund! That #3 seed is ours for the taking.
And give us a healthy roster and I think we could do damn well against Miami in a 7 game series – however, like I said, if they start Ilgy and we are forced to start Collins, then Horford would have to guard Bosh, which wouldn’t work as well as having Smoove on him.
I brought up this point a few days ago. I think we are better off if Perkins gets healthy and we can put Horford on him so Smoove can match up on KG. If Shaq starts, then we have to start Collins and Smoove on KG would be better than Horford on Smoove, even if Smoove did well against Paul Pierce last Thurs…Just some ideas. More worried about Miami matchups in the front court if Ilgauskas does indeed start
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
11:24 am
If ORL trades Q.Rich or Redick for a PF, then they are thin at the wing. I am thinking they’ll sign someone like Tony Battie
Would be nice to have Duhon
MICHAEL FREEMAN
December 22nd, 2010
11:25 am
Way to go Hawks great win keep up the good team work , this Atlanta`s year for sports
Sautee
December 22nd, 2010
11:27 am
When MC interviewed Al in July, Al was very candid about his “place” on the court with the Hawks. Here is part of that interview (with the link for any who want to revisit the entire piece)
http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/07/09/atlanta-hawks-catching-up-again-with-al-horford/
“I don’t have a problem splitting time [at center],” Al said. “I played a little four last year with Zaza in the game at the same time and I thought that was good. I know I am going to still play the five.”
He said he’s fine with that (it seems odd that an All-Star has to say that). He said he knows some fans and media seem to be more concerned about his position than him. But the way he sees it the Hawks have to play to their strengths, which includes a lineup with him at center.
“I think we create a lot of problems when have an athletic lineup with Josh at the four, me at the five and Marvin at the three,” Al said. “I think we create serious problems for people. I think that is one of our strengths as a team is we are so versatile.”
My take on this is that Al recognizes that against MOST centers he has an advantage in quickness and that the Hawks need to take that advantage and use it.
I think that Collins is mostly useful against a center too big for Horford who will be a focus offensively, like Dwight. But to say “let’s start Collins all the time”…….. well you are negating this very advantage that Al speaks to. And it seems that much of this conversation is as much about getting Marvin off the floor as it is about Horford.
I hope that LD will remain flexible in his approach to naming starters, and use whichever lineup will maximize out talents for a quick start. I’m not sure that starting Collins every game would maximize those talents.
Ramon
December 22nd, 2010
11:35 am
Starting Collins only make sense against one team, and that’s the Magic. As I said, it doesn’t make much sense with Boston, because KG is a bad matchup for Al. And bringing in Collins only slows up the game, that shouldn’t be slowed against them.
i_am_soulstar
December 22nd, 2010
11:39 am
Starting Collins makes sense against the Nets IMHO. They’ve been competitive with us ever since they picked up B. Lopez.
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
11:40 am
Al’s numbers have been damn good at the 4 though.
What are people’s thoughts on Miami matchups? Horford on Ilgauskas (midrange shooter)?
JeJe
December 22nd, 2010
11:41 am
People also need tor emember that Marvin is generally USELESS offensively as a starter.
It is worth starting Collins in order to bring Marvin off the bench and let him go against weaker wings, rather than LeBron, Carmelo, R.Jeff, Caron etc
i_am_soulstar
December 22nd, 2010
11:42 am
And I know Devin Harris has a lot to do with their competitive play agaainst us, but Lopez is just as much of a problem. Horford hardly ever has a good defensive game against that guy.
Ramon
December 22nd, 2010
11:51 am
The problem that is hurting the Hawks the most is Crawford’s past relationship with the guys in Golden State. I say that because the Hawks would be prime candidates to land Monta Ellis. A package of Marvin and Crawford would have to be one the Warriors would be interested in. However, while Don Nelson’s time in GS is over. You have to think the run-ins he and JC had, would stop GS from being interested in reacquiring him.
J from the A
December 22nd, 2010
11:53 am
Keep in mind starting Collins at the 5 is not _only_ about match ups at the 5, but also about match ups at the 4 and 3.
@JeJe: I have to admit that Camby’s contract is less than ideal, but that may help the deal work in the Hawks’ favor. That is, maybe that allows the deal to get done. If Portland is in rebuilding mode, it makes more sense for them to hold onto their expiring center contract and trade off their higher priced, not expiring contract center. I don’t think Camby’s contract makes it a deal breaker for the Hawks, though, as he only has one year past this year guaranteed (if I am not mistaken). Camby + Miller gives the Hawks a good two year window (this year and next) to make things work. If things look like they are not working by year’s end, Miller’s contract is not guaranteed for next year (again, if I am not mistaken), and I am sure Camby will become very tradeable next year (as long as injuries don’t hit him too hard).