Atlanta Hawks: Nets 89, Hawks 82
Devin and the Nets broke down the Hawks. (AP Photo)
Newark, N.J.–The Nets a) are 2-1 against the Hawks and 6-19 against the rest of the league and b) have a penetrating point guard, a big post presence and a coach who gets them to play a scrappy defensive style. A and B are closely related.
- “This is the type of defense we’ve been playing but we just haven’t been able to score,” Avery Johnson said. “We only scored 89 points tonight but it was seven more than our opponents.”
- The Hawks got 30 of those points in the first quarter. They started off the game passing the ball around with ease and making lots of shots but then the Nets turned up their pressure. They wouldn’t let the Hawks catch it clean in the post and chased them away from rhythm shots on the perimeter.
- The Hawks didn’t make of those things very difficult for New Jersey. Their entry passes to the post were poor and they were content to shoot lots of jump shots and fade away from the basket instead of go hard at it. Two plays in particular stood out in my mind to illustrate how the Hawks’ passiveness did them in.
- One time Al had Vujacic guarding him and started to back him down. Troy Murphy offered some token help, then retreated. It’s a situation where it’s hard to think Al wouldn’t at least end up with a foul. Instead, he pulled up for a jump shot and missed
- Another time, Murphy ended up guarding J.J. near the top of the key. Joe dribbled, juked a couple times, then threw up a long jump shot while fading away. He missed.
- The Hawks attempted 74 shots. Only 27 were from the painted area.
- “A lot of jumpers,” L.D. said. “We were looking to get more in the paint. We tried to post and they were coming on the double team, which we were already prepared for. That was a situation where we were settling from the outside when we should have tried to put the ball on the floor more to get more drive-and-kick situations. We had some open looks and they just didn’t fall tonight.”
- Joe made four of his first eight shots, then missed his next eight. He looked uncertain for much of the second half and said he’s still rusty. “It’s not going to come back overnight,” he said. “I just have to take my time. “
- “It will probably take another game or two for him to get into a rhythm,” L.D. said. “Early he was explosive and really making some nice plays. He kind of got cold again and couldn’t get it going again.”
- When winning time arrived, the Nets did to the Hawks what any team with competent pick-and-roll guards can do: Get dribble penetration then take advantage when the defense scrambles. Good shots usually will be available against the Hawks in those situations and then it becomes a matter of making them. The Nets made enough to win.
- “They were running the same plays and it took us a while to catch on to them,” Bibby said. “They were running pick-and-rolls, getting mismatches, spreading us out.”
- Atlanta was down 74-70 when Josh was forced to hack Lopez, picking up his fifth foul. Smoove played less than a minute in the first quarter before picking up his second foul. He finished with just 26 minutes and had three blocks. When he wasn’t out there cleaning things up in the back it’s no surprise that New Jersey found it much easier to score on drives and post-ups.
- After Lopez made those free throws for a 76-70 lead, here’s what Atlanta’s next 11 possessions looked like: J.J. travel . . . Collins foul . . . Al misses a fading runner across lane (he wanted a foul). . . J.J. missed corner 3 . . .Bibby made 3. . .Al’s miss over Vujacic . . . Marvin miss . . . Marvin made 3 . . .Josh made 3. . . . Horford made free throws . . . Bibby missed a rushed 3.
- “In the first quarter, we had good ball movement,” J.J. said. “We were getting into the teeth of the defense and making the game easy. After that, for whatever reason, we stopped doing that.”
- Bibby, among the least turnover-prone guards in the league, had five today. He had three brutal miscues in the second quarter, twice throwing it away while trying to feed the post and another time when the Hawks had a chance to get off another shot near the end of the half.
- The Hawks had two turnovers in the first quarter, 14 over the final three. It’s not even that the Nets were taking all those turnovers and scoring–they had just nine points off the 16 turnovers. It’s just that the Hawks needed all the possessions they could get.
- “It’s frustrating,” Drew said. “What’s even more frustrating is they are unforced turnovers, just coming down and making bad decisions on when to deliver the ball. When you are on the road, you have got to be more selective. You can’t have the high-risk plays, the high-risk passes.”
- Without all those turnovers and thus more possessions the Hawks probably win. Consider that they had 12 assists on the 15 shots (out of 52 attempts) they had over the final three quarters.
- The Hawks got nothing from their bench with Jamal out. Just two points after halftime for the reserves. Two rebounds in 13 minutes each for Twin and Josh Powell. Teague never could get the offense going and played just three minutes after halftime. Zaza played two minutes total and had two turnovers.
Michael Cunningham
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208 comments Add your comment
darrell starks
December 20th, 2010
7:20 am
Bibby is playing great but teague is the future, if the hawks could trade BIBBY, MARVIN, MOE, AND ZAZA, for a center with out giving up the core of the team then make the move, the hawks have a deep roster with a lot of option.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 20th, 2010
7:43 am
WHAT WOULD IT TAKE 2 GET MARC GASOL IN A HAWKS UNIFORM ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
O'Brien
December 20th, 2010
8:10 am
In order to convince Mo Evans to sign with us (and not Golden State), Rick gave him a 3rd year player option (GS was only offering 2 years). Maybe MO didnt get surgery because he knew he couldnt be traded if he wasn’t healthy (my conspiracy theory).
Steve W,
I’ve heard one of the reasons Bynum waited on the surgery is because he wanted to go watch some of the world cup.
Najeh,
Good points. northcyde made an interesting comment sometime ago in relation to Josh. He said one option for the team is to find a starting center, and start Al at PF.
Then bring Josh off the bench as a super sub (like the Lakers do with Odom). There should be enough minutes for Josh at PF and SF even if he comes off the bench.
But in my opinion, as constructed, this team is not good enough to get to the ECF, regardless of who the coach is.
Fundamentals
December 20th, 2010
8:31 am
Spud,
It seems LD, like Woody, is playing for the FUTURE by worrying about his own neck and fighting for wins. There is no player development, there is limited adjustments. When things get thick LD goes to Woody Ball just the same. I hate to admit it, but these past few losses almost prove it.
NJ killed us inside and with dribble penetration. Lopez can’t get the looks if Devin can’t set him up. Why not play Teague, JC2, Damien, even Mo more than Bibby and Joe to get defensive stops?
On offense they seemed to just wait on Joe for two nights and Joe’s not back to starter level yet. Yeah he started nicely, but then fatigue and soreness dominated his game. He needs time. He shouldn’t be back as the key feature till he proves he can give effective minutes the entire time he’s on the floor.
Fundamentals
December 20th, 2010
8:32 am
O’Brien – who is starting at SF to make Josh the “super sub” and don’t say Marvin? Joe I’m guessing, cause you’ll most likely lose Marvin to get a decent Center prospect.
J from the A
December 20th, 2010
8:55 am
The only reason you trade Josh for Love is for financial reasons. Josh > Love … and it is not even close.
Oh, and, Section 303 for troll of the year. Hands down.
Mike is back
December 20th, 2010
9:13 am
MC, Great analysis…Can you ask LD…why the HAWKS STOP RUNNING THE MOTION OFFENSE…the ball stop moving…AND GONE ARE THE DAYS…WHEN WE HAVE SEEN SOME HARD BACK SCREENS.
It’s simple…we are back to our old habits… what does he plan to do about that??
yessir
December 20th, 2010
9:47 am
Fire LD! Woody has nothing to do with why these misfits are losing. The man is not even the coach and some of you are still blaming him. You wanted a new coach, now you have one. Be happy. Next time be careful of what you ask for.
julius
December 20th, 2010
9:57 am
This is what the hawks mgmt paid for: High school coach Check.
No center whatsoever Check.
No PG Check.
No superstar Check.
They should trade marvin williams he’s totally a bust, bibby he’s just old and doesn’t play d, zaza come on, collins he’s just too fat and he doesn’t play d, mo evans what does he do oh yea he sits on the bench. The only good thing the hawks got to this day is Horford, jamal crawford, maybe josh if he plays hard, and the sucker they paid too much money and he ain’t showing for it.
HEY ASG DO YOU NEED SOME MONEY? DO YOU NEED ADVISE ON HOW TO RUN A FRANCHISE? IT STARTS WITH A GOOD COACH NOT SOME NICKELS AND DIMES COACH YOU HIRED ARE U INSANE? WHEN ARE U GOING TO TRADE MARVIN HE’S GARBAGE.
THANK YOU
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:01 am
Smoove would NEVERRRRRR come off the bench. I’m amazed Mayo has been so good with coming off the bench.
OK, we’re not talking about Marvin (no heart) coming off the bench.
We’re talking about one of the 5 most immature players in the NBA coming off the bench
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:03 am
I also have some great news to pass along to the blog this morning…Rod from College Park and others, take note:
If we are playing ORLANDO and J.Collins starts like he should after we beat them last time, what does this mean for the starting lineup?
Al to the 4, Smoove to the 3, JJ at the 2, Bibby at the 1
Whose name is not listed?
MARVIN. HE WILL NOT START TONIGHT. GREAT WAY TO START MY WEEK
GO HAWKS
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:04 am
I would not play Jamal these next 2 games. Let him get another week or so of rest for good measure.
And LMAO @ people thinking we will be 8 or 9 seed.
NYK keeps losing too and CHI is overrated and hurt. The East is WEAAAAAAAK. 4 or 5 seed for us
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:05 am
Is ZaZa in the doghouse? He looked pretty pissed on the bench the other night vs. CHA after he got that 2nd foul. I’d let him harrass Dwight too. Thankfully, we have some healthy bigs to throw at Orlando and their thin line
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:13 am
Alex Kennedy: J.J. Redick on how Orlando’s four outgoing players took the trade news: “There was mixed reactions. I’ll let you guys read into that.” Twitter
I bet Pietrus and Gortat were happy, and Vince and Rashard didn’t care because they both are overrated and soft
lewis
December 20th, 2010
10:16 am
“Whose name is not listed?
MARVIN. HE WILL NOT START TONIGHT. GREAT WAY TO START MY WEEK
GO HAWKS”
rofl
O'Brien
December 20th, 2010
10:25 am
After Jamal gets healthy, Hawks should call up Portland and see if they are interested. With Brandon Roy being banged up, Jamal could fill in nicely. Would they do Jamal for Pryzbilla and Fernandez for Jamal?
Fundamentals,
Over the offseason, I think its easy to find a starting SF. Matt Barnes might be available again, Rodney Carney etc.
I think if Damien Wilkins was given Marvin’s minutes, he would average 10 and 5 like Marvin does.
As for the big line-up, I think Marvin should come off the bench. The wild card though, is we have no idea what to expect from Orlando. They may have Chemistry issues, so we’ll see.
lewis
December 20th, 2010
10:27 am
O’brien,
They already inquired about Jamal and Sund turned them away.
Fundamentals
December 20th, 2010
10:27 am
JeJe – Only curve ball LD could throw would be starting Joe at PG and Marvin at SG to go huge on ORL.
To me ORL got better. If they gel they’ll have a team that’s alot faster and more athletic. Only problem will be can Orton fill in at C? Dwight will have alot more pressure on himself to stay in the game. It’ll take away some of his aggressiveness.
Fundamentals
December 20th, 2010
10:31 am
Jamal definitely needs to rest to ensure he’s 100% as well.
Joe is trying to rush back for All Star votes…not for the team IMHO. He needs to go slow, rest and get his stroke back before he plays more than 20 minutes a night.
Is Pryzbilla healthy? Rudy and Joel would be a decent fit here if we lost Jamal. At least you’re filling niche’s with decent quality.
Rod from College Park
December 20th, 2010
10:35 am
JeJe,
I don’t think Drew will do it. Marvin has started every game that he has been healthy since he got here. He has never had to earn anything. I really think he has dirt on one of the owners or something. Marvin will start rain, sleet, snow or shine. That is one of the main reasons that we will not progress. Same lineups, no accountablilty, no pressure to do your job.
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:36 am
Fundamentals, never thought of that
Well we all know Woody played Joe big minutes in January so he’d make the All Star team
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:48 am
Rod,
Any chance we bench Horfy or Smoove to start Duck at the 3 or 4? LOL
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
10:49 am
If Duck got benched for JC2, he probably wouldn’t care. He doesn’t even enjoy playing basketball
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
10:54 am
What’s deal with the Hawks playing rotation? Zaza & Teague barely play anymore. I know Teague had a great game against Boston but other then that he hardly plays.
Are they in Drew’s doghouse?
Ramon
December 20th, 2010
11:10 am
Something may not be right with Josh, but he still find ways to contribute. Last night his shot wasn’t falling, but he drew contact and went to the line. You can’t say his head isn’t in the game, because Josh knocked down all but 1 of his free throws (7 for 8). And he was still able to get 10 rebounds. Also people talking about Josh shooting air balls from 3, when did this happen? And why is Josh shooting the 2nd highest percentage from beyond the arc on the team (he’s also even leading Love in 3 pt percentage)?
You guys say Josh takes too many jumpers. But Love takes more attempts, and still shoots at a lesser percentage than Josh. Love averages less assists, and the same amount of turnovers, while giving you NOTHING on the defensive end.
Also, to those who say Josh should average more offensive rebounds, and that Josh should be placed on the block more. Josh is the only fast break prevention on the defensive end. So its hard for Josh to crash the offensive board and still get back in time to slow up breaks. Majority of the times when shots go up from the Hawks, Josh runs straight back to get back on the defensive side. That has a huge impact on how many offensive rebounds a player is able to get. And on the defensive side, Josh leaves when an attempt goes up to start on the fast break. For the most part, Josh is the fast break. Think about it, Bibby is too slow to lead the fast break. Marvin is too clumsy in the open court to lead the fast break. So that only leads Josh and Joe to feel up the lanes as Horford gets the defensive rebounds. Without a dominate center or dominant rebound guy, it is very hard to have a fast pace teams and be in the top in defensive rebounds. All of the Phoenix, Golden State, Dallas, and Denver teams were always close to the bottom in defensive rebounding.
As I said, on this team I wouldn’t take Love over Josh, because Love absolutely does nothing on the defensive end of the court. However, I may would take Love over Al, because they do the same thing, and are both truly limited on the defensive side of the ball. However, at least with Love, you can move Josh to the 3 and bring in a center like Camby to take care of the post and rebounding. However with Love and Al as your frontcourt (cause neither can play the 3), you take away being able to switch when Bibby is in trouble. And you also have no one on your roster who can alter shots at the rim.
Think about this, Josh goes 15 pts, 10 reb. , 3 blks, and we say that he had a bad night. How many players in the league can post that line on a ‘bad night’. Also once again, Josh didn’t force too many things last night. The difference is, the referees actually called when he was getting fouled. So how is that not maturity? He’s 3 for 9 and doesn’t go and throw up 5 more shots. Do you think Joe, Crawford, Bibby, or Horford would do that? They would still continue shooting.
Ramon
December 20th, 2010
11:12 am
O’brien, I think the Hawks could get Camby for Jamal. And if they can’t get at least Camby, they need to hang up the phone on them. To me the most realistic deal still would be with the Pistons probably.
Rev in Tampa
December 20th, 2010
11:12 am
Najeh Davenpoop = Renaissance Man
Able to explain the luxury tax, dissect the unbalanced make-up of the Hawks core, and recover blog-monster digestion.
We all stand in awe!
slimjr
December 20th, 2010
11:54 am
Josh needs to be traded ASAP!!!
Josh for Rudy Gay
Marvin for Dwill
Rick Sund=Billy Knight JR
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 20th, 2010
12:06 pm
Bottomline….. The Hawks as an organization are expecting things out of their players that they simply cannot handle.
Joe Johnson is not a superstar…..but they have him in that role.
Josh Smith is not a natural scorer….but apparently the organization/coaches think he is.
Guys like Zaza and Mo Evans are not serviceable back ups…..atleast not for a team that expects to make noise in the playoffs.
Marvin isnt starters material.
I’m talking about night in and night out performances. It seems like every time these guys do something positive once out of every 5 games all is forgotten. Nonsense.
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 20th, 2010
12:13 pm
If the Hawks have any kind of pride, they’ll win this game tonight
Ramon
December 20th, 2010
12:14 pm
Mac, Josh isn’t a natural scorer? Lebron isn’t a natural scorer. Pippen wasn’t a natural scorer. But they still can get you 20 ppg. Josh started shooting bad when Joe came back to the lineup, think about that. Before Josh was doing good in his new role, and he was still shooting at high percentage. The only difference between 16 ppg and 21 ppg, is 6 more shot attempts. Josh and Al are in the same boat. If they got as many attempts as ‘all stars’ get, they will score just as many points.
O'Brien
December 20th, 2010
12:20 pm
Ramon,
Portland might trade Camby for Jamal, because they would have Pryzbilla and Jamal as expirings. I would take Camby, because he immediately helps with rebounding.
Rod,
Agreed about Marvin not having to earn his starting spot. Hawks got rid of Al Harrington so Marvin could start his second year, and he has started ever since, despite the fact that Chills would finish games.
And the only legit backup we’ve had for him is Chills. But when Chills contract was up, Rick told him to go find an offer. When Marvin’s contract was up, they quickly gave him 5 years, $37.5 mil.
I’m glad we finally have a decent backup in Damien. But if I’m LD, I start Twin/Al/Josh/JJ/Bibby tonight.
Plus with Jamal not 100%, we could bring Marvin off the bench to help the bench scoring.
Rev in Tampa
December 20th, 2010
12:25 pm
Its not a bad idea to bring Marvin off the bench to improve scoring. We saw flashes of Marvin’s Alfa-dog when JJ was out. Maybe, by designating Marvin as the Scrub-Captain he might become more productive.
Ramon
December 20th, 2010
12:27 pm
O’Brien, do you think Portland would take Jamal, and our first, for Camby and their first?
Ramon
December 20th, 2010
12:29 pm
O’Brien, I think it depends on Hedo’s position tonight. If they try and go small with Hedo starting at PF, to keep Bass on the bench. Then you have to start Horford at center, because he can’t guard Hedo. But if Bass is the pf (or Anderson) then yea you go big.
Fundamentals
December 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
Too early to tell, but the ego thing with Josh and Al when Joe comes back is becoming more of an issue. Goes back to them quitting on us in the playoffs when Joe failed us. They’ve got to find a way to gel or they’ll be blown up very soon. Nobody has to be a superstar, just play your role on the TEAM and we can play winning basketball!
For Marvin is it lack of an alpha role or just that he doesn’t care? We’ve seen both comments forever. Dude likes his niche when he’s called on to be “the man” and he thrives. When he’s not, he flounders to the point of being invisible. Would he be productive on the 2nd unit? No one has tested it.
Gary
December 20th, 2010
12:35 pm
IN YOUR STORY ON TONIGHT’S GAME, THERE IS NO REFERENCE TO WHAT TEAM ORLANDO’S NEW PLAYERS WERE TRADED FROM.
Fundamentals
December 20th, 2010
12:40 pm
Gary – Suns and Wizards.
Fundamentals
December 20th, 2010
12:42 pm
In defense of MC – should be common knowledge for high profile players such as Arenas and Hedo. Magic should’ve never traded Hedo to begin with IMHO. Arenas to me smells like trouble, but maybe a new start will resurrect his potential All Star image.
slimjr
December 20th, 2010
1:04 pm
Josh doesn’t show up the 4th quarter to help close out games because his lack of scoring ability on OFFENSE!! HE sucks wind!!! Cannot post up, cannot dribble, cannot shoot a fade away, cannot stop and pop, cannot shoot a mid range jump shot, cannot use the glass, cannot finger roll at the rim..He has an immature offensive skill set, bottom line. He just learned after 7 years in the NBA to shoot a set shot!!! He has got to go if this organization is interested in competing for a title.. Its time to bust up the 3 stooges asap…..
slimjr
December 20th, 2010
1:07 pm
Now if the hawks had drafted future HOF DWILL in 05 instead of WNBA specialist (Marvin Williams) he and Josh would have been like Magic and Worthy!! Not….
slimjr
December 20th, 2010
1:14 pm
Hawks lose by double digits tonight….
Ramon
December 20th, 2010
1:33 pm
Slim? seriously? Josh scored 8 points last night in the 4th quarter.
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
1:34 pm
Bibby & Mo Evans for Gerald Wallace
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
2:09 pm
Ramon,
I’d rather have Horf on Hedo than Dwight.
Dwight will destroy Horf. I hope ZaZa gets minutes tonight. We need him
terrell
December 20th, 2010
2:32 pm
ANY team with Bibby and Marvin in the starting lineup cant be that good. Its that simple. Hell you could have Kobe at the 2, Garnett at the 3, and Gasol at the 5. Still wouldnt matter. Much less, Joe, Josh, and Al. Gotta upgrade the pg and sf position. Until then, same ole Hawks.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2010
2:37 pm
So Joe came back for All-Star votes? Give me a break. Only the starters are voted into the game by fans and Joe (I’m sure) is fully aware that he isn’t a fan favorite like Wade & Rose. Dude has been selected by coaches for 4 years, I think he understands the All-Star porcess. I think there is a FAR greater chance that Joe returned because Jamal was hurting, the team had lost 3 of 4 at the time AND he felt healthy enough to play. If he’s shooting poorly, the head coach does have an option of not playing him 38 minutes/game… but I’m sure that no one even gave that consideration… much better to suggest some selfish plot by Joe rather than suggest that maybe he should be ramped up into the flow of the team/game.
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
2:41 pm
“The Mavs don’t run that much, but when they do, they are brutally efficient. Dallas has an effective field-goal percentage (which adjusts regular field-goal percentage to properly value three-pointers) of 62 percent when they shoot in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock, according to 82games.com. That’s easily the best mark in the league; only one other team (Atlanta) even tops the 60 percent barrier.”
Taken from some website
*This tells me the Hawks need to be running…PERIOD.*
JeJe
December 20th, 2010
2:52 pm
Astro Joe,
Do you think the coaches vote Joe in if he stays out another 2 weeks? No. Highly unlikely, but he could’ve returned just to remind some coaches who he is
cp
December 20th, 2010
2:54 pm
I haven’t liked a lot of lineups LD has thrown out there. A few of his sub patterns have hurt this team in about 5 games this season. LD has a lot of Woodrow in him. He talked about accountability but i haven’t seen any yet. He said guys were shooting too many jumpers but what did he do about it? He didn’t sit anybody who kept jacking them up. Sounds like the same thing Woodson had to deal with. He talked about how he was going to play JC2 more yet I haven’t seen it… Seems like a new coach and the same stuff going on..
Tonight the Hawks need to attack the paint and get Dwright in foul trouble seeing how he really doesn’t have a backup but knowing the Hawks they will shoot jumpers all night.. Look for Mo to get a lot of minutes and do his usual 2 points and no defense smh