Atlanta Hawks at Nets: Magic make moves; Hawks wait and see
Newark–The Magic come to Philips Arena tomorrow with a whole new look. Hard to tell what it will mean for Atlanta’s division rival until we see how Orlando’s new pieces come together.
“They add guys that can shoot the ball,” L.D. said. “But they got rid of guys that can shoot it, as well. I was very surprised that they pulled the trigger on it. I had heard about but it just surprised me that they pulled the trigger.”
My initial reaction is that the Magic probably got better on the perimeter but without Gortat will have issues in the frontcourt when Dwight gets into foul trouble. The former just means the Hawks will have the same challenges as always in defending the Magic; the latter means the Magic (as presently constructed) will have to go small when Dwight is on the bench and that helps the Hawks.
J-Rich is a more versatile scorer than VC. Arenas comes with a bad knee and baggage but he says he’s ready to come off the bench and so will immediately fill a need for Orlando. Turkoglu had fallen off since leaving Orlando but perhaps a return to his playmaking role will rejuvenate him.
“Turkoglu has always been a tough guard because he has size and he can handle the ball,” L.D. said. “But I think it remains to be seen with the other guys. Both Carter and Rashard Lewis are guys that have always played well against us as far as making shots. Them getting Turokglu and Richardson and Arenas they add three guys who are just as potent from the outside. I think it just becomes a matter of whether the chemistry works out, and that just remains to be seen as they play with one another and get a feel for one another.”
Even after their recent struggles, the Magic are in a virtual tie in the standings with the Hawks. They had a good team before the moves.
“It definitely surprised me,” Marvin said. “They moved their whole team. I guess they have a vision how they want things and they thought it wasn’t working. They had to change it up, I guess. They could have gotten better. They bring Richardson in who averages 20. Hedo had a monster season when he was there the year they got to the Finals. You never know how it will work out.”
The consensus seems to be that the Magic made the move to appease Dwight and also in reaction to the Celtics and Heat streaking.
From Mike Bianchi of the Orlando Sentinel:
We don’t know if these trades will work or not, but what we do know is this: The Magic were not going to win anything by standing pat. This team is 16-10, has lost six of its last seven and is 3-6 against opponents with .500 records or better. It was becoming increasingly evident the Magic could not compete for a championship with a slumping Rashard Lewis and an aging Vince Carter in the lineup.
Replace “slumping Rashard Lewis” with “inconsistent Marvin Williams,” and “aging Vince Carter” with “aging Mike Bibby” and couldn’t he be talking about the Hawks?
Jamal out, Joe a go
Jamal will sit out his third consecutive game with a sore back. L.D. said J.J. was good the day after his return.
“He didn’t complain about anything,” Drew said. “He said it felt fine. No soreness. He said it felt good.”
Drew said he didn’t anticipate that it would take long for Joe to get back in the flow.
“It’s just a matter of him getting his timing back, getting his rhythm back,” he said. “Anytime you miss a few games it is always a little difficult at the beginning of regaining that rhythm and that timing. I am certain that he will get it back.”
MC
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202 comments Add your comment
Clyde
December 19th, 2010
4:41 pm
The Hawks won’t make a trade because the Spirit Group is satisfied with a mediocre team.
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
4:41 pm
If NJN is so desperate for Melo, is it possible they’d bite on Smoove and give us Murphy (expiring) and one of their PGs in a multi-player trade?
Ben G.
December 19th, 2010
4:46 pm
It’s pretty funny that Al and Josh’s combined salaries are almost equal to Joe’s salary, and the two of them combined more than double Joe’s production. Hell, each of those guys alone, almost outproduces Joe. Efficiency-wise, Horford is better than Joe by a landslide, and even with Josh taking terrible shots, his field goal percentage is better than Joe’s. Clearly, something is wrong with the team’s offensive philosophy and shot distribution.
The Counselor
December 19th, 2010
4:54 pm
Guys, I’m just curious about something…who is to blame for the Hawks struggles this season? I know the blame can go on a combination of people, including the players, coaching staff, ownership, etc., but who is the root of the problem or the biggest problem?
I mean, obviously, ownership is easy to blame for not making any impact moves during the offseason, but essentially the same set of players, I only see one person to blame for the decline so far: the coach. The players have obviously not gotten worse (with the exception of maybe Joe). Horford, Smith (when he isn’t taking those horrible jump shots), and Teague all look better this year, and Powell is an upgrade over Joe Smith, while Collins is almost improved slightly over Randolph Morris. The team doesn’t look like they are giving up as much as they did last season either, so the root of the problem really seems to be the coach.
If a coach as limited as Woodson was able to get the team to win 53 games last season, what is the excuse for Larry Drew? Also, don’t give the rookie coach debate or mention that a new system takes time to implement, because there really hasn’t been any progress offensively, and the defense remains about the same as last season, overall.
So, what is the problem? I’d love to hear some ideas on this.
Allen
December 19th, 2010
5:02 pm
I wish I had SportsSouth so that I could listen to Larry Drew’s pathetic post-game interviews. I can only imagine which excuses he made today and what lies he is preaching about to the media.
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
5:07 pm
Drew’s offensive plan really is a joke.
I see no plays run at all
Just everyone standing around and our fat overweight PG jacking up shots and not impacting the game
Big Ray
December 19th, 2010
5:08 pm
We don’t know if these trades will work or not, but what we do know is this: The Magic were not going to win anything by standing pat. This team is 16-10, has lost six of its last seven and is 3-6 against opponents with .500 records or better. It was becoming increasingly evident the Magic could not compete for a championship with a slumping Rashard Lewis and an aging Vince Carter in the lineup.
Hawks front office : “Nahhhh….we like our core. The one that just lost to New Jersey. Again.”
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 19th, 2010
5:09 pm
the hawks can barely score more than 90 nowadays
Big Ray
December 19th, 2010
5:11 pm
If a coach as limited as Woodson was able to get the team to win 53 games last season, what is the excuse for Larry Drew? Also, don’t give the rookie coach debate or mention that a new system takes time to implement, because there really hasn’t been any progress offensively, and the defense remains about the same as last season, overall.
So, what is the problem? I’d love to hear some ideas on this.
Oh, so rookie coaches should be expected to perform like veterans, and new offensive and defensive philosophies are something that can be acclimated overnight.
Sounds like your mind is made up about it being the coach. Which means asking for ideas really means you want a theory to shoot down.
LOL….
Steve W
December 19th, 2010
5:11 pm
I really hope that the Hawks’ management is conjuring up some trade that we just don’t know about yet. That trade exception that we got for Childress is just laying around somewhere going to waste. I’ve noticed that Zaza has been collecting a lot of dust on the bench lately. I wonder if he would be a potential trade chip, along with Jamal. Zaza is an okay backup center, and a pretty good rebounder. He can be effective, as long as you don’t expect him to finish at the rim LOL. At any rate, there’s got to be someone out there who wants him.
Grandad
December 19th, 2010
5:14 pm
Only saw the 2nd half.?.
Observation:
Joe stops the offense.
It [the Off.] does not flow as it did before he came back.
Observation # 2:
The team did not look as if they wanted to be there today.
(are the players even aware how handsomely they are compensated)
Last observation:
Joe’s body language suggests he’s @ a funeral rather than a game.
No wonder his followers are caught up in his wake.
The Counselor
December 19th, 2010
5:23 pm
Big Ray,
If you have nothing constructive to contribute, then why contribute? Perhaps, I would like to hear some contrary ideas. I just got the ball rolling with my personal feelings on the matter. That doesn’t mean I’m opposed to hearing counter-arguments. I’d just like to hear what others have to say on the matter.
Also, it appears that you either did not read into what I was saying, or did not understand it. New schemes don’t show results overnight, but progress is something that can be witnessed. The Hawks are not showing progress, and although injuries have played a factor so far this season, the team really hasn’t looked much better with Joe Johnson in the lineup, so even that logic is skewed. The defense also has it’s ups and downs.
And, as far as your point about rookie coaches, when you have the talent that this roster has, it’s not asking a lot to at least stay close to or equal what your predecessor did. Take a look at what Chicago is doing. They were able to play better than the Hawks under a brand new rookie coach, with an inferior roster (when without Boozer).
And we are not even mentioning the fact that Drew had an advantage over other rookie coaches in his overall experience on the sidelines as an assistant and the fact that he was already familiar with the players, a huge advantage over other rookie coaches.
So, if you have something constructive to say or disagree, then prove me wrong with some analysis, rather than scoffing at my questions and argument in disrespectful fashion.
Allen
December 19th, 2010
5:28 pm
Grandad,
You are spot on with your comment about Joe stopping the offense. I’m starting to wonder if this team can run a motion/flex offense with Joe on the floor in tight games. Joe excelled in a movement-oriented system in phoenix, but that was in his early years, before he developed his deep isolation habits, and that was also under a very experienced coach who is arguably one of the best offensive coaches in the game.
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
5:36 pm
“Oh, so rookie coaches should be expected to perform like veterans, and new offensive and defensive philosophies are something that can be acclimated overnight. ”
That’s the problem.
THERE ARE NO OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE PHILOSOPHIES.
As bad as Woody was, at least he emphasized DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING
Drew emphasizes offense, which looks just as bad as last year’s, and defense, which this team rarely seems to play (look how many open shots other teams get.
I’m pretty sure Avery circled these [home] games against ATL and told his team to destroy us as payback for us not signing the QUALITY EXPERIENCED COACH WHO HOLDS PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE.
Marvin Williams: 8 points and 4 rebounds in 34 minutes LOL!!!!! Accontability my $55
terrell
December 19th, 2010
5:37 pm
Sorry Najeh, Tom Brady’s MVP man.
Vick comeback POY.
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
5:37 pm
Excellent posts, The Counselor.
Our offense and defense do NOT look better compared to last year and it’s amazing this team is worse.
I really think the only player on this team who improves every year is Horford.
Smoove is just naturally athletic and Teague is so trivial a player that he doens’t count
Allen
December 19th, 2010
5:38 pm
To The Counselor:
I think you have to blame ownership and management for the debacles. L.D. may not be doing a great job as a coach, but management made the decision to hire him. The whole point of getting a new coach was so that the team would improve, win more games, and advance further into the playoffs. Right now, they are doing the opposite, and it has to do with a mediocre hire in L.D. and a lack of any impact moves during the offseason. The same issues that we’ve had personnel-wise for the last couple of years are still with us now, and the coaching change is doing nothing for us. I can’t put the blame on the players or L.D. alone, since it’s not entirely their fault. Maybe L.D. just wasn’t qualified for this job, and maybe the combination of players we have right now just aren’t enough to take us a step further than we’ve been. That’s why it’s the duty of management and ownership to shake things up when the personnel that we already have can’t take us further.
Mr. S E R U M
December 19th, 2010
5:38 pm
Right on Big Ray!!
Mr. S E R U M
December 19th, 2010
5:39 pm
Go Woody Lite!
ROFLMAO!
kwooden1
December 19th, 2010
5:44 pm
Didn’t see this game, but its clear that they missed Jamal. They needed someone that could make shots, any offensive looks bad when shots aren’t going in. The HAWKS are a jump-shooting team, so their jumpers have to be falling for them to be successful. I’m sure they will play better tomorrow night, especially if Jamal comes back. But with Bibby and Joe playing 40+ minutes, Jamal will need to come back with a vengeance. Those guys will have tired legs.
GO HAWKS!
Andre
December 19th, 2010
5:46 pm
Woody Lite?
So, if Woodson was a glass of Pepsi, then L.D. is the watered-down glass of pepsi that has been sitting around on the table for six years?
Steve W
December 19th, 2010
5:52 pm
You know what is kind of shocking?
The team right now, is on pace for a record inferior to the Hawks team from two years ago that didn’t even have Jamal on it. Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Actually, the Hawks were never really mighty, but they were on the verge of getting to that level before the Martin Luther King, Jr. wannabe arrived.
Mr. S E R U M
December 19th, 2010
5:53 pm
The HAWKS are a jump-shooting team, when ever the other team has a better center than we do…
Mr. S E R U M
December 19th, 2010
6:00 pm
MVP means you made the guys around you better. N. E is much more talented than philly. Take the skins vs philly without vick and skins vs philly with vick and you see the difference.
would not have the eagle flying as high if he was the quarterback
Mr. S E R U M
December 19th, 2010
6:01 pm
Brady would not have the eagle flying as high if he was the quarterback
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2010
6:20 pm
“Sorry Najeh, Tom Brady’s MVP man.
Vick comeback POY.”
We’ll see. The only team Vick has lost to in a game he started and finished is the Bears. People seem to forget that Brady was really ordinary for the first 6 or 7 games of the season and had a bad road loss to the Browns. If Vick gets penalized for being injured, Brady probably wins. But after today’s comeback, it’s going to be hard to deny Vick the MVP vote.
Clyde
December 19th, 2010
6:31 pm
The Hawks are so sorry I’m tired of talking about them.
When will Larry Drew realize that Marvin Williams needs to come off the bench? Its just sad. The guy has done nothing to deserve a starting spot. He doesn’t score, he doesn’t rebound and he doesn’t defend. All he does is run up and down the court and jacks up jump shots. SMGDH
When Jamal comes back I think we should start him at the 2 and put Joe at the 3 against smaller lineups and use Bibby and Joe at the guards and use Collins at center against bid lineups.
This love affair between the Hawks organization and Marvin Williams needs to end.
Wally Walker
December 19th, 2010
6:34 pm
The ball does not rotation and the current PGs don’t penatrate. Josh, Al, Marvin, etc never get easy or rythem shots. Don’t be fooled by Marvin’s recent games; he does not possess the killer instinct to be an elite player. I would like to keep Jamal this year as well as for the future, but do the Hawks’ GM and ownership have the heart to DO SOMETHING! Marvin, Bibby, MO’s contract, Teague and their # 1 pick have value. I just don’t believe they will sit by and allow this team to go backwards aan anything less than getting to the 2nd round of playoffs is backwards.
Again, Portland and Phoenix want to dump salary and rebuild. Houston is trying ro retool. There are PGs available. Do something!
cp
December 19th, 2010
6:46 pm
I was watching the Eagles vs Giants so I didnt see much of this game. What I did see was ugly though. LD has had some terrible lineups on the floor at key times… This team needs to make a move but seeing how Sund is the GM I doubt we do.
Tyrone
December 19th, 2010
6:48 pm
People clam down, my cousin BooBoo in Phoenix says a trade for Steve Nash is in the works. The Hawks are offering Marvin, Bibby, and their # 1 pick. Phoenix wants Jamal, Mo, # 1 pick, and cash.
As the new reports state, Phoenix wants to dump Josh Childress and the Hawks have to involve another team to take back Childress. Portland looks like the 3rd team. Hopefully, its goodbye Marvin!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2010
6:50 pm
I hope your cousin BooBoo is right, because that would be a great trade for the Hawks. If they can get Nash without giving up one of their three best players they would be idiots not to do it.
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
6:50 pm
Wally Walker,
No one is fooled by Marvin’s recent games. You know why? Because he had 8 and 4 in 34 minutes today. I swear those are the numbers he puts up 90 % of the time.
The other 10 %, God Forbid, when adversity strikes, and a player is out, he is FORCED to step up
I know that any situation involving him being out of his comfort zone of invisibility must be tough, but somehow he actually tries when he is yelled at or he is forced to step up
FIRE SUND
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
6:51 pm
LOL @ PHX wanting 2 bench players over 2 starters.
I told you clowns Bibby and Marvin aren’t starters. Even if that rumor is [I hope it's not] BS, I’d do either trade.
I would commend the Hawks for offering 2 of our worst rotational players (Marvin and Bibby) though
Najeh Davenpoop
December 19th, 2010
6:53 pm
It’s funny, though, isn’t it? As recently as six months ago, the Hawks had just come off a 53 win season, the Falcons had missed the playoffs, the Braves had missed the playoffs, and who knows what the Thrashers were doing. Fast forward six months and the Falcons are arguably the best team in the conference, the Braves are coming off a playoff appearance and a big trade, even the Thrashers are apparently in first place, and the Hawks look mediocre. Weird how these things happen.
lukas
December 19th, 2010
6:56 pm
From where cousin BooBoo had the info?
Smith
December 19th, 2010
6:57 pm
Tyrone why in the world would Phoenix take this crapy deal. Keep dreaming
Clyde
December 19th, 2010
7:02 pm
BooBoo in Phoenix been smoking on some of that BooBoo.
Grandad
December 19th, 2010
7:14 pm
PHX wants desperately to get rid of Childress.
Childress cannot come back to the Hawks.
Other than that Win/Win!
I’ll believe BooBoo when I hear it from a *credible source.
Maybe when *Ranger Smith tweets it, I’ll believe it.
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
7:14 pm
Clyde,
FIRE WOODY
JeJe
December 19th, 2010
7:16 pm
“”In the first quarter we had good ball movement,” Johnson said. “We were getting into the teeth of the defense and making the game easy. After that, for whatever reason, we stopped doing that.”"”
LOL no “I”…. always “We”
FIRE SUND
Tyrone
December 19th, 2010
7:16 pm
My cousin is in the loop. Pheonix like Atlanta is Broke. However, the different is Atlanta is not as heavily in debt as Pheonix. That’s why the are collecting cash (million from Orlando) and # 1 picks. # 1s are cheaper than veteran players. There’s serect why Pheonix take Vince; his contract expires this season. Moreover, it is clearer that Steve Nash will not be a part of a playoff Pheonix team that makes any noise; his 36 years old and his fortunes are few. Childress has not produced and HIll is 37; clearly they don’t want Marivin and his salary. Jamal and MO repersent almost 13 millions in expiring contracts this season and the Hawks’ # 1 would give them 3 in next year’s draft. Don’t forget the million in cash they demanding.
Now, does their desires seems to be out of whack. They have given up on this season and are planning for the future.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2010
7:24 pm
Dennis Scott said the same thing northcyde has been saying. JJ needs to STOP taking 3’s. period. He was 1-6 today, 1-6 against Charlotte, and for the season, he is 23-94 (24%).
Lots of blame to go around. But the bottom line is we lose again. Of the Nets 8 wins, 2 have come against the Hawks SMH.
Ron
December 19th, 2010
7:31 pm
Tyrone,
The trades you mention make sense for financial reasons, but unless Nash himself asks or a trade, I can’t imagine the Suns trading him. He’s their marquee player, he’s the guy that people pay to see when they go to Suns games. I can’t imagine them trading their franchise player at this point, since he is really all that they have left. For financial and future building reasons, the trade makes sense, but from a marketing standpoint, I’m not sure it makes much sense. At any rate, I hope that the trade rumor is indeed true, because Jamal, Mo, and a 1st round pick with cash is not a huge amount to give up for the Hawks. They’ve proven that they can win without Jamal and Mo is basically a third-string role-player at this point. I think the injury to his knee and the following surgery really slowed him down. In terms of draft picks, I don’t think the Hawks can expect to get much.
On the other hand, if the Hawks were to trade Bibby and Williams, it’s still a decent trade, although it leaves the team with a bit of a whole at the 3, but it is easier at this point to get a quality starting SF than it is to get a quality PG, and the Hawks don’t really need all that much out of the SF position with the way the roster is constructed now. I wouldn’t mind getting Childress to come back to the Hawks as a bonus in this sort of trade, either, but I know that he wouldn’t be happy with that.
At any rate, I hope that a trade is indeed in the works.
O'Brien
December 19th, 2010
7:32 pm
Najeh,
If Vick had played every game, I think he would be leading the MVP race, because despite him missing games, their numbers are close (although Brady hasnt played yet tonight).
Brady: 3400 yards, 29 TDs, 4 ints,
Vick: 3126 yards (total), 24 TDs, 4 ints.
But Brady has played much better teams. Jets twice, Ravens, Steelers, Bears, Colts etc.
Vick is Comeback POY
Wreckmaniac
December 19th, 2010
7:32 pm
With Arenas joining Orlando, the Hawks are guaranteed no playoff spot this season.
YoDaddy
December 19th, 2010
10:39 pm
we need to trade somebody
Michael McBride
December 20th, 2010
1:18 am
Why is Bibby still getting over 40 minutes of playing time?? LD needs to start Teague over Bibby and let him loose. Also Williams is a complete bust in my opinion and needs to come off the bench or be traded. Maybe we can get more production out of Williams if he didn’t start. I really frustrated when I see every team in our division made significant moves to make their team better and all we did was overpay for JJ. I am done with the Hawks. I used to attend 20 to 30 home games a year, but not anymore until the management and coaches start doing their jobs and have these guys ready to compete every night.
Michael McBride
December 20th, 2010
1:24 am
Obrien, figure in Vick’s rushing stats and the fact the Eagles were supposed to be rebuilding this year then I think Vick should be ahead in the MVP race. Buy Brady and Manning are the poster boys for the league so Brady will more than likely win.
slimjr
December 20th, 2010
1:26 am
Marvin too soft to win you Championships as a focal shooter. Now bring him off the bench like he played in Carolina maybe..Naw just trade his WNBA butt asap!!
slimjr
December 20th, 2010
1:33 am
Its a wrap for the HawkS,2 STINKING LOSES TO THE LOWLY NETS!!!! WHERE WAS MARVIN??? THE 3 STOOGES DO IT AGAIN?? CANT GET IT DONE IN THE 4TH QUARTER? WHAT ELSE IS NEW IN ATLANTA?? NOTHIN
MARVIN FOR DWILL
JOSH FOR RUDY GAY
RICK SUND=BILLY KNIGHT JR