Hawks 90, Bobcats 85
Greetings, all
Ken Sugiura sitting in for MC again. Michael stayed up in the northeast rather than bounce back down here for one game. He’ll be back with the team Sunday for the much-anticipated tilt with the Nets. Hmm, Sunday game at 1 p.m. I wonder if anything else will be on TV at that time?
The story, obviously, was the return of your favorite four-time All-Star. Joe Johnson surprised everyone when he showed up to the arena and wanted to give it a go. In recent days, Johnson had been working out and shooting on his own and was not feeling pain, which was encouraging to Larry Drew. Still, he wasn’t anticipating this quick a recovery.
Actually, the Hawks had their walkthrough before the game Friday without him. But he was shooting 3-pointers without pain, and he shot so well against assistant coach Nick Van Exel Thursday that he joked about getting on a plane to play in Boston. When he told Marvin Williams before the game Friday that he wanted to suit up, Williams didn’t believe him.
You can say what you want about him, but it was fairly clear to me talking to him and others how much he means to this team. He sounded very sincere in his desire to get back to the court as quickly as he could, and teammates like Williams and Mike Bibby sounded very glad to have him back, not just in a way they’d be glad to have any teammate back, but to have their leader return.
“That was another main factor why I wanted to come back,” Johnson said of the team’s recent downturn, “to help these guys. We’re all we’ve got in this room.”
I don’t anticipate a relapse on the injury. He got banged around a bit and held up fine.
- Which brings us to Jamal Crawford, who sat out his second game in a row with a back injury. Drew said he was told it was a disc problem, Crawford said it was spasms. He said his back locked up against Detroit and he tried to play through it without success.
He said it was feeling better and that he anticipated getting back against New Jersey or Orlando at the latest. Obviously, though, a back injury is not to be trifled with and something that can often get re-aggravated. Hopefully, some rest will be helpful for Crawford. The Hawks have some testy matchups coming up — Orlando on Monday, at New Orleans Dec. 26, at Oklahoma City New Year’s Eve — and it wouldn’t hurt for them to be at full strength.
- One positive the Hawks got out of Crawford being sidelined, though, was the play of Jeff Teague. I think MC might have covered this after the Boston game, but Teague said that with both Crawford and Johnson out against Boston, he felt responsible to pick up his game and play aggressively. I’m planning to cover this in a story for Monday’s paper.
He kept at it tonight with a real strong finish in the third quarter. I was watching him fairly closely, and I think this is a fairly accurate rundown of the possessions.
- Screen from Al Horford, finds Josh Powell alone under the basket, who gets fouled.
- Drives the lane, fouled by Derek Brown. Same possession, pick and pop with Horford, who hits from the free-throw line.
- Screen from Horford, Teague hits from free-throw line.
- On Charlotte’s ensuing possession, stays in front of shaking-and-baking D.J. Augustin, preventing him from driving. Augustin passes off to Tyrus Thomas, who chucks up a 3-point attempt airball as Charlotte has a 24-second violation.
- On final possession of the quarter, gets inbounds pass, dribbles upcourt, goes behind the back and pulls up for a buzzer-beating jumper over Augustin.
And then in the fourth quarter, he had that ridiculous block against the glass of Derrick Brown. He was in for 15 minutes total. I’m going to guess his 40 minutes back-to-back might be a career-best for him with the exception of games he’s started and then final regular-season game against Cleveland last year.
- Some numbers: Charlotte’s 18 offensive rebounds were the most against the Hawks this year, but the Bobcats only had nine second-chance points. Hawks had 27 fast-break points. Hawks went to the line just 13 times, fewest in the past six games.
Zaza Pachulia had a two-minute stint early after Horford got in foul trouble, got his own two quick whistles and didn’t go back in. All the Hawks starters were in double figures. Former Hawk Boris Diaw had 22 points, almost double his season average. Looks like he’s put on a little weight.
Hawks never trailed. Hawks took 25 3-pointers, the second-highest total of the season, making only six. Josh Smith, Mo Evans and Johnson were a combined 1-for-12. Hawks had eight blocks, one below season best. Teague had two, Smith and Horford had three.
- This isn’t exactly new territory, but it’s hard to believe Kwame Brown was once a No. 1 overall pick. I talked with someone within the past year who knew Brown in high school – I forget who but I’m not making it up – and he said basically that Brown just never was that into basketball. I imagine that can be something of a disadvantage in the pursuit of a professional basketball career.
I was looking at his Wikipedia page. Did you know about the incident in which he allegedly threw a cake at someone? Kind of funny, though strange. Rather interesting that Michael Jordan would sign him again after drafting him in Washington, and also that Brown wanted to go to Jordan’s team, although perhaps the options weren’t many. That’d be like if Billy Knight got a job somewhere and signed Shelden Williams.
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360 comments Add your comment
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:16 pm
Najeh, I would trade Josh Smith for Kevin Love this second. No brainer there. Josh probably more talented, but he takes nights off and makes too many mistakes. Love would be an improvement. Too bad Sund didn’t make that move this summer. He could have. Love was on the market.
SteveW
December 18th, 2010
10:17 pm
The Suns actually think they may contend this season with this move – Gortat and Lopez at Center, Warrick, Frye and Barron at PF, 5 Quality wings, and Nash and Dragic at PG. Frye now gets to move to PF instead of C, and the backlog at wing is lessened a little.
I think the Suns plan is to see if this works for the next 1 1/2 months, then either contend or blow up the team. Then Nash may be availbale. But I like this trade for the Suns. Even’s up their roster.
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:17 pm
Jamal, Bibby, and 20 1st rders for Nash. Trade as many picks as possible (low 1st rders for us are worthless pretty much)
Take back Chillz if you have to
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:19 pm
Big Ray,
Too bad no one in this league wants J.Smoove. The guy is the hometown hero yet gets booed by his own fans.
The only possible Smoove trade I see is Smoove for Iguodala and that’d be a joke
We need a PG
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:19 pm
O’Brien, what about Bass? Orlando still has him as a banger down low. I think Bass is very underrated. He’s a good player.
There starting five:
PG: Nelson
SG: Arenas
SF: J-Rich (Go GREEN!)
PF: Bass
C: Howard
Bench: Turk, Redick, Duhon
That’s not a bad roster…plus, word is they still have one more trade to make.
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:20 pm
That should read their starting five, by the way. Not “there starting five”
SteveW
December 18th, 2010
10:20 pm
We also could have had Micheal Beasley for a 2nd rounder this summer also…
Chris Duhon is now available from the Magic if there are any takers….
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:22 pm
FORGET NEEDING a Center
Horford is as good as most centers. There are only 2 or 3 that will dominate Horf, and we can use Collins in those scenarios.
We need to shop
Bibby + Mo ( + [picks] )
Bibby + Marvin + [picks] )
Jamal + Bibby + [picks] )
Jamal + Mo ( + [picks] )
to every team in the NBA and get a better starting PG.
Bibby will not suffice as our starting PG
And ORL was 1st seed in the East for a few week, is now 3rd place, and their management is INFURIATED with their underachieving, so they pulled the trigger
Sund shows no desperation even after getting embarrassed 2 years in a row in the Playoffs
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:27 pm
Like I said, if you want to talk about mistakes, go see what Timberwolves fans have to say about Kevin Love on defense.
Smoove >>>>>> Love, especially when the Hawks already have one power forward they are playing out of position at center.
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:27 pm
SteveW, I take a pass on Duhon. He is good for a 3rd PG off the bench. Anything more than that is asking too much.
I would love to add Battier somehow. Hawks need more tough guys on the team. They added one in Damien Wilkins. Battier would be a great addition.
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:29 pm
If you want Damien and Battier as your 3’s, you better be getting amazing production out of all your other guys because your offense will suffer with them out there
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:29 pm
As for Nash, on the other hand, the only reason I wouldn’t trade Joe, Smoove, or Al for him is because he is 36. If a deal for him can get done without moving one of them, the Hawks would be foolish not to take it.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:31 pm
“If you want Damien and Battier as your 3’s, you better be getting amazing production out of all your other guys because your offense will suffer with them out there”
All the Hawks need out of the SF position is rock solid defense, good floor spacing, the ability to consistently hit open shots, and energy. Those two can easily provide that.
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:33 pm
Najeh, I just like the idea of a Love/Horford front court. Two smart players. Two good shooters. Two guys who ALWAYS play hard, not just sometimes play hard.
And, don’t forget, Josh has his issues sometimes on defense as well.
Let’s see:
Rebounding: advantage Love
Decision Making: advantage Love
Shot selection: advantage Love
Shot blocking: advantage Josh (not even close)
Defense: I’m calling a push (Josh more potential here, but doesn’t show up every night)
Teammate: Gotta go Love. I’ve never seen him pout during timeouts and yell at a coach.
Dunker: advantage Josh
Passer: advantage Josh
Ball Handling: advantage Josh
Toughness: advantage Love
So…5-4-1 infavor of Love…I can’t think of any other categories to compare them.
SteveW
December 18th, 2010
10:34 pm
I think the Magic may be thinking of bringing Arenas off the bench, and starting Jameer and J Richardson in the backcourt, and a frontline of Hedo, Bass, and Dwight. They then have Arenas, Duhon, Q Richardson, JJ Reddick, and Ryan Anderson on the bench. I would guess they have already lit up Josh Boone’s phone in China already.
And I would also guess their trying to trade Richardson or Reddick for a 3/4. Maybe even Duhon also, because they still have Jason Williams on the roster also.
You have problems either way you go with them however. J Richardson is a great BB player, but he’s no 3. He’s about the same size as Mo’, so it would present severe defensive liabilities for the Magic with him at the 3.
And Stan Van Gundy did not want Arenas according to reports! That’s never a good sign. I think SVG either wins a championship this season, or he loses his job. And they probably will be out of the hunt next season because Orlando almost certainly won’t have J Richardson (Free Agency), and they’ll have an aging Arenas (with bad knees), Hedo (already past his prime), and Jameer. Not a good scenario.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:34 pm
I think it’s also worth mentioning that for all the complaining about Smoove’s poor shot selection, he actually has a higher effective field goal percentage than Love, mainly because Love takes way too many 3’s himself and shoots 44% from the field overall.
Really, other than rebounding, there’s nothing Love does better than Smoove. I don’t get the infatuation with him. If you just want a guy who is going to eat up boards, I’m sure Reggie Evans is available.
SteveW
December 18th, 2010
10:35 pm
Sorry for all the typos in my last post…
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:36 pm
Najeh, I don’t agree at all on Battier. His offense is fine. The guy is a decent shooter. He could hold his own there.
I hate getting into dream trades, but for fun, Hawks lineup with Battier (assuming Marvin is traded for him, like others have said)
PG: Bibby
SG: Johnson
SF: Battier
PF: Smith
C: Horford
What you lose on offense (though, I don’t think it is that big of a loss, more of a push), Battier makes up for on D. He also makes up for with his smarts and guile. He would make the Hawks a better team.
Battier, even though I am no fan of Duke, one of my favorite NBA players.
SteveW
December 18th, 2010
10:37 pm
Love is younger, but you would have a team with two 4’s still starting. And I would guess that Al and Josh’s on court chemistry is better. Kevin Love = Troy Murphy on steriods.
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:38 pm
“All the Hawks need out of the SF position is rock solid defense, good floor spacing, the ability to consistently hit open shots, and energy. Those two can easily provide that.”
I agree, but it’s not like we get much out of the PG position (I can count on one hand the number of 20 pt games Bibby has had in the last 2 seasons), and if Smoove is off (like he is usually against better teams), then Battier’s 7ppg or whatever anemic number he gets would not suffice
Get a PG and then I’ll be happy to get Battier
SteveW
December 18th, 2010
10:41 pm
I like Battier, but the Hawks need a PG and a True C. They may get it internally with JT and ZaZa (probably not on the last one). But I wouldn’t trade Marvin for Battier, because I don’t think it makes us that much better of a team. But maybe his toughness does, I don’t really know actually. If Battier could motivate us on a nightly basis, call Josh out when needed, and team up with Al as being great captains on the team, then maybe. I just get the feeling Battier is on the way down. But Marvin, well….
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:43 pm
“Najeh, I just like the idea of a Love/Horford front court. Two smart players. Two good shooters. Two guys who ALWAYS play hard, not just sometimes play hard. ”
Smoove: 48% FG, 42% 3FG, 51% eFG this year; 46% FG, 28% 3FG, 48% eFG career
Love: 45% FG, 40% 3FG, 49% eFG this year; 45% FG, 34% 3FG, 47% eFG career
How exactly is Love a better shooter than Smoove?
I’m going to try to find the T-Wolves message board I was reading the other day which was talking about how clueless Kevin Love is when it comes to basic defensive concepts like when to double-team. I think it was actually linked off this blog, but I don’t remember. If I find it, I’ll post the link.
EmirS.
December 18th, 2010
10:43 pm
Even a Battier that “might” be on his way down is better then a Marvin thats not on his way up.
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:43 pm
LOL @ people thinking Minny would trade Kevin Love for Josh Smith. The team already has their Josh Smith in Michael Beasley.
YOU CAN’T PROPOSE TRADES IN WHICH YOU TRADE PLAYERS THE OTHER TEAM DOESN’T WANT.
Kevin Love is having one of the BEST rebounding seasons ever, comparable to Dennis Rodman and others. He is DOMINATING the glass this year. Why would they trade an ELITE rebounder for a career immature tweener who shoots 3s instead of UTILIZING his talents?
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:44 pm
“Najeh, I don’t agree at all on Battier. His offense is fine. The guy is a decent shooter. He could hold his own there. ”
I wasn’t trying to say Battier can’t score if necessary, just that the Hawks don’t need scoring out of that position. I think he’d be a good fit here.
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:45 pm
Damn Battier has more high scoring games than I thought. If he’s healthy, why not. But you NEED a PG. I won’t stop saying that
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:45 pm
“Why would they trade an ELITE rebounder for a career immature tweener who shoots 3s instead of UTILIZING his talents?”
You do realize Kevin Love takes over 3 3’s a game and makes a lower percentage of them than Smoove, right?
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:46 pm
LOL @ Erik Spoelstra hiding behind what the MIA big 3 is doing. What a useless head coach
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
“You do realize Kevin Love takes over 3 3’s a game and makes a lower percentage of them than Smoove, right?”
He’s also averaging 20 & 15 and 87% FT’s
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:48 pm
JeJe, that trade (Smith for Love) could have happened this summer. We could all debate forever if it would have been a good move for the Hawks or not. But, this summer, no question, it could have happened.
Big Ray
December 18th, 2010
10:49 pm
Section 303 ,
Yep, agree that Love and Horford would be two smart players on the court. Beyond that, I don’t agree with much else (not in an offensive or malicious way, mind you).
Love tougher than Josh? How? Because he rebounds way better?
You’ve never seen Love pout during timeouts and cuss at (or about his coach). Probably true.
But you’ve never seen Josh made into a bench guy and not a starter because his defense was so bad (worse than Darko’s, which is saying something) to begin a season. Remember that at the start of this season?
Again, I see issues with Love and Horford being much too alike in position description and other things. Horford doesn’t shoot 3s, which brings Love’s shooting average down well below Al’s. Love has trouble defending 4s, let along 5s.
The problems for this team are largely defensive, not offensive. While Josh doens’t bring it every single night, I can guarantee you what Love will bring every single night – not nearly enough defense to help this team be any better than it is now, and almost a surety that it will be worse…. every night .
This is NOT AT ALL about who I like more. It’s about who fits better.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:50 pm
“He’s also averaging 20 & 15 and 87% FT’s”
He’s averaging 20 points per game on below 45% shooting and takes 3 3’s a game from the power forward position. If Smoove did this there would be a damn lynch mob on this blog screaming for him to be traded. Yeah, Love is an elite rebounder. That’s not up for debate. As an offensive player, though, he’s basically the Boston version of Antoine Walker statistically.
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:50 pm
Najeh, I’m going to try and watch more T-Wolves games. I’ve not heard anyone of the guys I follow closely (Bill Simmons, Sekou Smith, Rick Bucher, Lang Whittiker) say that Love plays bad D. They all rave about him.
Moot point…trade will never happen now, anyways. Fun talk, though.
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
10:54 pm
Big Ray, I don’t know…I would still do that trade. I like Josh Smith. He’s a Hawk…but the guy is just maddening. He drives me nuts. He’s almost too talented for his own good. I think that makes him less hungry.
Imagine Josh Smith’s talent combined with Mario West’s drive…would be awesome!
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
10:54 pm
Whatever, Najeh
No smart GM would ever trade Love for Smoove, and Smoove will probably not be traded in the next few years, if ever.
Like Northcyde said the other day about people being laughed at if we offered Smoove for Rudy Homo or ZBo, same thing with K.Love. He is far better than Smoove as a basketball player
Big Ray
December 18th, 2010
10:55 pm
He’s also averaging 20 & 15 and 87% FT’s
….yep…on a very sh!tty team that has NO other credible options on offense, or on the glass. What was Love averaging when Al Jefferson was there? Exactly….
Love’s numbers are great. But they do have to be examined under the circumstances. He’s option #1 up there. Horford is option #2 or #3 on average…on a playoff team…and he’s putting up only 3 ppg less….
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
10:56 pm
Basketball-Reference has a stat called “Defensive Rating”, which estimates how many points per 100 possessions a player gives up. I am generally skeptical about how accurate these advanced stats are, so take it with a grain of salt. But this stat lists Kevin Love as giving up 109 points per 100 possessions. By comparison, Smoove gives up 100, Horford gives up 103, Tim Duncan gives up 98 (he was in the low 90s in his prime), and Mike Bibby and Jamal Crawford each give up 110.
So at least according to this stat, Love is worse than Smoove defensively by roughly the same order of magnitude that Smoove is worse than Duncan in his prime, and Love is negligibly better than Bibby and Jamal Crawford on defense.
Section 303
December 18th, 2010
11:00 pm
Najeh, I laughed at the Bibby/Jamal numbers. My, God…the two of them are just so bad on D…
I’ve heard of that stat, but never have bothered to study it. Interesting….Josh’s numbers would be amazing if he would just bring effort every night.
Big Ray
December 18th, 2010
11:02 pm
Section 303 ,
It’s just a disagreement. I view Love’s numbers as a product of him being the only reliable player in Minnesota right now, along with his considerable talents. But I look back at how he was when Al Jefferson was there, and I see a double double guy who I never thought was quite as good as say….David Lee. For me, it really is about the fit.
The issue with Josh is, and continues to be about his maturity and habits. Yes, he can be maddening. Watch Kevin Love “play defense” and you’ll feel the same way. Love is a smart player, but there are some things he just doesn’t do. Shooting a high percentage from the field and playing defense are two things he just doesn’t do.
It’s also somewhat amusing that everyone assumes Love is so much smarter with the ball. Love averages 2.3 assists and 2.2 turnovers. Josh averages 3.8 assists and 2.7 turnovers. Alrighty then….I just don’t know how the immature dummy manages this, but the stats ain’t lyin’.
I also think it’s VERY unrealistic to think Love would even come close to putting up 20 and 15 in Atlanta, alongside Al Horford. More like 15 and 11.
Now….if you’re cool with 15 points, 11 rebounds, little to no post defense of any kind, a few three point attempts per game, and 45% shooting, then he’s your guy.
Tell me this, does he make us a better team? That’s really all I’d want to know, and my only requirement. I’ve always maintained that if you get better by trading Josh, then you do it. Does Love make us better?
Big Ray
December 18th, 2010
11:03 pm
Anyway, I’m out for tonight. I hear my name being called from upstairs in a very sweet voice…
Grandad's Love Child
December 18th, 2010
11:04 pm
JeJe STFU you are always complaining and day dreaming about stupid trades,
Anyone who wants Love over Smoove is god dam fool
Nash is alot better than what we have at PG now- make the trade asap. Bibby/ Mo/!st
Orlando just got better .Turkoglu was great in that system .Richardson is just as effective as Carter. Arenas is still a 20 ppg 5-7 assist guy. Hawks sitting on their hands as usual.
Trade marvin for Beasley
EmirS.
December 18th, 2010
11:04 pm
Compare Smith’s O. Rebs to Love’s O. Rebs. averages. Career and season. I’m rather intrested in those. Ofeensive rebounds tend to dictate ALOT of games, no?
Grandad's Love Child
December 18th, 2010
11:06 pm
Big Ray’ Whats his name?
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
11:08 pm
“JeJe STFU you are always complaining and day dreaming about stupid trades,”
LOL! What stupid trades am I proposing? Like the idiot here who said we should trade Joe for Hinrich? Or the other moron who proposed we trade 4 players for 4 Houston starters?
“Trade marvin for Beasley”
LOL yeah you are an idiot. STFU and don’t ever call me name out on here again
Najeh Davenpoop
December 18th, 2010
11:08 pm
“I’ve always maintained that if you get better by trading Josh, then you do it. ”
I agree, and I’ll take it one step further — unless trading Smoove either allows Horford to move to PF full time (in other words, the Hawks get back a starting caliber center) or brings back a star player who is demonstrably better (I’m talking about someone of Carmelo Anthony’s caliber, not Kevin Love) it’s not worth making the move. Love is not a center by any stretch of the imagination, and other than rebounding he really doesn’t do anything better than Smoove, and in many ways is significantly worse.
JeJe
December 18th, 2010
11:10 pm
LOL @ Najeh thinking we’d get a Carmelo-caliber player for Josh Smith. No one outside of Atlanta cares for Smoove’s game, besides his shot-blocking. His offensive game is a damn trainwreck.
Ok I’m done for the night with you people. Horrendous trade offers all around and people thinking Josh Smith could actually be traded for some of these names. LOL
Jae Evolution
December 18th, 2010
11:15 pm
Why would we trade Marvin for Battier, the only reason this team should do that trade is if they acquire either of the young PG’s Lowry or Brooks, if that isn’t part of the deal then forget about it.
Marvin is younger, has WAY more potential than Battier, and is already good enough defensively (though Shane is clearly better), also I think Battier is a better shooter than Marvin from deep, but Marvin can create his own offense which I think Battier lacks.
Grandad's Love Child
December 18th, 2010
11:16 pm
Grandad why wont you claim us we love you. Jeje dont make me cut your ballz off -I will
Ramon
December 18th, 2010
11:22 pm
Rockets GM Daryl Morey believes the Rockets are good enough to get one of the Western Conference’s final playoff berths, but probably only if he’s able to acquire a low-post defensive presence. The Rockets were one of the NBA’s best defensive teams two years ago when Yao Ming was on the floor. Without him, they’ve been among the 10 worst. Marcus Camby would appear to be an excellent fit. So might Brendan Haywood or Emeka Okafor. To win in the playoffs probably requires a star, and getting that piece to the puzzle — Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony or Josh Smith – remains atop Morey’s to-do list. At the moment, those players are unavailable (Paul and Smith) or not interested in playing for the Rockets (Anthony). For now, Morey’s blueprint is to continue to collect young, marketable complementary pieces and be as prepared as possible if a star becomes available.
DirtyMingus
December 18th, 2010
11:22 pm
“Doing bad thing is fun”
I jack of to the Victoria Secret catalog, the christmas edition is so nice.
MC looks like Ned The Wine’O Jus say’n Good night guys time to polish the bishop and call it a night.