Atlanta Hawks: Celtics 102, Hawks 90
Boston–Here’s the thing: The results don’t show context. They don’t note injuries or bad luck or nice efforts or anything like that. They only show Ws and Ls and for the Hawks they show that they can’t beat the better teams on their schedule.
- You know the list: Phoenix, Orlando, Utah, Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and now Boston. “We have got to have these games,” Marvin said. “It’s not really early in the season anymore. We’ve got to do a better job closing these games out.”
- The truth is the Hawks went to Boston and had a chance to win without J.J. and Jamal. They’ve never been completely healthy for any of their games against the best teams.
- “What you have got to understand is we don’t have all our weapons,” Smoove said. I don’t think you can really measure where we are at as a team like those teams that you are naming unless we have all our horses running.”
- I know that sounds like too much excuse making for fans, and I get that. But you know what? Smoove makes a fair point.
- Yet it’s also true is that the Celtics turned them back without Rondo and three centers: Shaq, J. O’Neal and Perkins. Guard Delonte West was out, too, and Von Wafer lasted two minutes before leaving the game.
- The Celtics are deeper and better, which might be expected given their payroll and pedigree but, again, the standings don’t care about stuff like that.
- “They are an experienced team,” Al said. “They just know how to play.”
- “They made plays and they tried to exploit our mismatches all night,” Marvin said. “They were tough.”
- As long as Rick Sund sticks with the “core” philosophy, the Hawks are going to have to figure it out. Their challenge is to see if through experience, and despite their shortcomings, they can reach that level. Then maybe they win tight games against good opponents and others will be talking about how they know how to play and how they exploit mismatches.
- “I am going to maintain my patience,” L.D. said. “The encouraging thing is we can look at a game against Miami on the road, San Antonio on the road, even Orlando the first time on the road, and now here we are against Boston on the road we are right there in the fourth quarter. We just can’t get over the hump. I am glad that we are right there but we’ve got to mentally learn how to get over the hump.”
- Once again, you can point to a few missed chances cost the Hawks at winning time.
- The Hawks trailed 77-75. Ray Allen steals the ball from Josh Powell, but Marvin hustles back to block Allen’s shot and start a Hawks fastbreak. But then Teague throws the ball away and, on Boston’s next possession, no one blocks out Glen Davis and he puts back a miss.
- On Atlanta’s next possession, Nate Robinson ties up Teague and forces a jump ball. The Celtics controlled the tip, and then Robinson set up Pierce for a 3. After Marvin misses, Erden somehow finds himself free for a baby hook in the lane that made it 84-75.
- Teague had three of Atlanta’s six fourth-quarter turnovers, marring what was otherwise a standout effort. Maybe it will mean his return to the rotation, as long as L.D. is willing to live with his mistakes.
- “He came out that first half, really really aggressive on the floor,” Drew said. “That’s what he has to do every time he steps on the floor. That’s what I am looking for. I need that. He’s the only guy that has that speed and has that type quickness that can change the flow and tempo of the game. He did a great job again.”
- Teague’s teammates were going wild as he was getting steals and dunks.
- “Coaches told us to go out there and push the ball and be aggressive and play. Turnovers are going to happen but you just have to keep playing,” he said. “I just wanted to make an impact on the game. Me and Jordan at the beginning of the game, we had to make an impact, and hopefully get some stops on the defensive end and make some plays out there.”
- Josh was out of sorts offensively. He didn’t have any touch around the rim. “I was in it on the defensive end, I just couldn’t help out offensively,” he said. “Good thing about it I have a chance to redeem myself tomorrow against Charlotte. I just can’t stop believing in myself. I think I got down on myself too early in the game because things weren’t falling.”
- Josh had just two points in the first game against the C’s. This time he couldn’t finish in the post against Pierce.
- “He didn’t have that explosiveness like he normally has around the basket,” Drew said. “That was very noticeable early in the game. I didn’t think we would totally dominate the matchup with Pierce, but I thought we would have a much larger advantage against Pierce with him using his size and strength and experience. He missed some easy shots. He rushed a few shots. He didn’t seem like he had that energy.
- Al picked up his second foul with 4:25 left in the first quarter. He stayed on the bench the rest of the half and finished with eight points, 4 of 7 shooting, seven rebounds, 26 minutes and three fouls.
- “That’s happened to him before and he has come back and bounced back in the second half,” L.D. said. “But he just never got into an Al Horford rhythm. But again, there are going be games where there are nights like this.”
- Al had ice packs on both hands after the game. “I’m not going to make excuses about anything,” he said. “I hurt it against Indiana. My shooting has been like this for a couple games. It is really swollen so I have to make sure I ice it to keep it down. But it’s nothing serious.”
- JC2 passed up an open shot early, the first indication that the rookie was off. He looked rushed while committing three unforced turnovers. “I hadn’t played since the last few minutes against Toronto,” he said. “I just wanted to get back in the flow but my timing was off. It was little mistakes I shouldn’t make regardless if you don’t play or not. That’s all on me. “
- The Hawks didn’t let Robinson get on a roll this time (despite his 41 minutes) but Pierce hurt them as the point forward. “You could see [Robinson] was just out of rhythm with the ball,” Doc Rivers said. He was struggling with the ball and with his passing. So we just made Paul the point guard and it worked out.”
- Powell played 4:19 of the fourth quarter and had all zeros across his stat line except for a turnover. Zaza had the same minutes in the final period and had a rebound and a steal.
- Wilkins showed some life offensively while scoring scoring 10 points. He got four free-throw attempts through some crafty plays. He’s helping the Hawks.
- At one point in the first half, the Celtics dropped off Mo to let him shoot a 3-pointer, and he looked like he didn’t want to do it. He finally halfheartedly chucked up a brick. It looks like his confidence is sagging.
Michael Cunningham
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257 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
12:44 am
“# They’ve never been completely healthy for any of their games against the best teams.
# “What you have got to understand is we don’t have all our weapons,” Smoove said. I don’t think you can really measure where we are at as a team like those teams that you are naming unless we have all our horses running.””
Like you pointed out, the Celtics were down to their 4th string center and were missing their best player. No excuses. The Celtics are just a better team.
As for all the other good teams to whom the Hawks have lost, at some point you have to beat at least some of those teams if you are a good team yourself. It’s one thing to go .500, or even .400 against them; it’s another thing to go winless.
J.J.M.
December 17th, 2010
12:45 am
POOR HAWKS..*SARCASTIC*
I Believe In This Team
December 17th, 2010
12:49 am
I know we lost but Im still excited about the effort. Great game Marvin. Love Teague’s aggressiveness and passion. We we’re missing two big pieces and the guys still came out and tried to earn a W.
There are moral victories and there are signs of good things to come. Lets not confuse the two.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 17th, 2010
12:57 am
HOF’rs -vs- Scrubs!
SteveW fixed his mouth to say this:
“drmaryb,
Please do not ever compare Coach Drew to Phil Jackson or any other Hall-of-Fame level coach. ”
First of All Sir:
Phil Jackson has NEVER coached a Scrub! Ever! He can drop to his Broke Hipped Knees and kiss MJ & Kobes pair of BALLS for each and every one of his 10 Rings that they gave him!
Like Barkley said, “YOU CAN NOT WIN w/o PLAYERS!
Phil has hand-picked TWO TEAMS to Coach: Bulls and Lakers!
You don’t coach HOF’rs and stacked benches:
You sit on your azz, cross your good leg over your bad leg and watch them demolish inferior talent!
Hell! You could clock out from your day job, show up at the Lake-Side Show, chat with Jerry Buss about what the team needs, smoke a fattie and WIN five Rings too!
Give Me a Break! Phil wouldn’t even bother to get on a plane to come here and coach an Atlanta Spirit – Hot Mess team like this!
JSS
December 17th, 2010
1:25 am
@ Dr Mary B…
He (Jackson) coached Will Perdue and Stacy King… The man coached some scrubs!!! Happy Holidays my blogging Doctor
JSS
December 17th, 2010
1:29 am
@ Michael Cunningham…
That is as fine of a breakdown of a game as this paper has seen in a very long time… Congrads!
mykhalc
December 17th, 2010
1:43 am
a bit bi-polar but 100% delusional!!! who keep hittin’ rewind every year??? SMDH
Reggiet
December 17th, 2010
1:48 am
Well Marvin had a good game which means it’s time for him to disappear for the next two weeks.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
1:52 am
Charles Barkley just called Semih Erden “that big semen kid”.
In the entire history of Barkleyisms, that might be the funniest. Even better than the time he called himself a dumbass.
SteveW
December 17th, 2010
1:52 am
Drmaryb – That was a Steve W who posted about you not me (SteveW). Somebody trying to be slick there….
SteveW
December 17th, 2010
1:54 am
So Josh has 3 points combined in 2 games versus the Celtics? I think those vets are in his head big time in Bean Town.
Clyde
December 17th, 2010
2:01 am
In my 6 or 7 years on this blog I think I have heard every excuse in the book on why the Hawks didn’t get the job done.
J.J.M.
December 17th, 2010
2:13 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiDSKXv-i9I
why cant josh do this?
E43
December 17th, 2010
2:15 am
I think LD has a good done a good job with a hobbled team but i just think that he doesn’t let players prove their worth sometimes.
Our bench played well today. if josh+al had their 10+ish points then this would’ve been a much closer game.
I also feel like benching teague an entire game is just unacceptable. i understand that theres a game-plan, and hes not quite polished and all but at least put the him out there for a minute and then decide whether or not he should get more minutes. Sometimes good things can happen given the chance.
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
2:26 am
Sorry Josh . . but that excuse doesn’t work tonight.
It doesn’t work, because we got 26 out of Marvin and 18 out of Teague. Those are JJ and Jamal type numbers out of two guys that we’re lucky to get 10 points combined out of, on a given night.
A team like Boston isn’t going to take us lightly, nor feel sorry for us having people out. So when we’re right there in striking distance, we have to make winning type plays.
That means when Ray Allen is shooting a 3 in the corner, and you’re running at him, you don’t DUCK and run at his legs, giving him a clear view at the basket.
No Josh . . . you run at him with your arms in the air. Or better yet, jump at him and throw that dang jumper into the stands.
And just bcause you don’t make shots, doesn’t mean you can’t excel at other things. What happened to the assists you used to rack up?
No Josh . . . we had replacements step up big time for our injured weapons. It’s just that unfortunately, YOU didn’t show up and play at a high level tonight.
And it’s unacceptable for you, of all people, to only grab 4 rebounds. That’s 5 games now, in which you’ve don that with JJ out. We have lost 4 of those games.
It doesn’t matter if it’s you, or Joe Johnson, or Al Horford, or whomever. When a game is still in the balance, someone individually, or the team collectively, have to make WINNING plays.
Even when people are out, if a game is close, make a damn play. No whining allowed. Just make a play.
Atlanta Fawkers
December 17th, 2010
2:41 am
No one cares anymore. ESPN said this team was Groundhog Day (the movie) because it is the same thing as past 4 years with no sign of change. Trade some of these scabs now and build for the future unless owners are happy with just getting to the playoffs. Go Falcons!
** Apologies to Woody. Was not your fault man and be glad you are out of this mess.
Clyde
December 17th, 2010
3:11 am
Instead of making an excuse Josh should have kept it 100 and said I didn’t feel like playing today.
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
3:12 am
LOL @ Groundhog Day.
I don’t mind the loss. I just don’t want to hear excuses about the loss, when were only down 2 in the middle of the 4th quarter.
It’s amazing that Marvin’s quote was the best of the night.
sam'l
December 17th, 2010
4:09 am
Au contraire…it was Woody’s fault…..we’re seeing the bad habits he created.
Teague was cool, except he just managed to throw the game away at the end. Josh was as expected super-energetic and wound up to redeem the Detroit disaster….just a little TOO hyped up to control hiimself. How do the Hawks get excited over Teague’s shots? Shouldn’t the Hawks be totally into and fact they’re playing the potential NBA champs on their own home floor and totally into winning the game? I consider this a problem.
By the way, Pierce and Robinson are not forgiven tor showboating during the game. Their little airplane rides are stupid and asinine. However, they both did play well…
Atlanta loses another game they could have had. But sub players stepped up…..that’s enouraging. The mystery of Marvin Wiliams continues…Obviously he can play, but why can’t he play with the starting five……and what happened to Josh Smith……really?
That was the ballgame….
Au revoir
December 17th, 2010
5:12 am
Larry Drew is really doing a terrible job. I am annoyed by his coaching strategy, I cringe at his rotation management, I am incredibly frustrated with his inability to properly utilize his players, and I cannot stand the fact that he never owns up to his own mistakes. It’s enormously disappointing. It’s disheartending to see our potential going to waste. The “Fire Woody” train was going strong when people became fed up with his same old routines that would get the Hawks into trouble, but it took a disappointing and historic playoff sweep for the Hawks to finally cut ties with him. What is it going to take to get rid of Drew? The more I watch the Hawks this season, the more I dislike that man as a coach and the more fed up I become with the fact that he is causing our talented young team to regress.
A flawed Mike Woodson was able to get this team to win 53 games last season, and I don’t care what anyone says, our team is not worse than it was last season (personnel-wise) and the East is not stronger, overall. One team’s loss is another team’s gain when it comes to players. The Hawks have not had a particularly brutal schedule and Drew can’t even get the team to play at nearly as high of a level as Woodson. Woodson had served his purpose and it was time for him to leave, but the team should have been taken over by someone who understands the game and players better. Drew is hurting our team and our players. He’s causing the team to play away from their strengths and he’s restraining our best player (Horford) from blooming. He’s really holding him back, singlehandedly. The team, itself, is being held back with Drew’s biased management and infatuation with role players. This needs to come to an end. Enough is enough.
cdog
December 17th, 2010
7:33 am
the hawks will lose and suffer as long as they have rick sund as their GM point blank.feel sorry for die hard hawks fans. you have a loser. things won’t get any better.
terrell
December 17th, 2010
7:37 am
Like the effort without our 2 best scorers. Sometimes the other team is just better than you are.
Techster
December 17th, 2010
7:54 am
It is no secret that this team is going nowhere fast, even when JJ and Crawford return. I hate to criticize Marvin after a great game, but we’ve seen him step up and have great games when needed enough times over the years now to know that he is capable of playing like this much more often than he does. He has had some great games before when JJ or someone else was out. Unfortunately, most of the time, he’s just out there cashing paychecks.
After making progress for many years after dismantling the team, Hawks management downshifted into neutral last year and everyone knows it. They’ll make the playoffs this year as a 4 – 6 seed and then get steamrolled by a superior opponent. Just like the last couple years.
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
8:23 am
Good games by Marvin and Jeff…Marvin will continue to put up big numbers if given the chance…I still do not understand why Josh gets more touches than marvin..Josh should focus on rebounding and defense..Marvin is clearly the better offensive player..Joe Max is the number 1 option,Marvin should be 2nd.If he got the touches Al gets he would easily score 19-25 ppg ..Last night was a perfect example of what to do with a former #2 pick..RUN PLAYS FOR HIM….Quit holding this monster back..
drmaryb (*_*)
December 17th, 2010
8:23 am
Steve W
Somebody is trying to jack your I’d. I’ll give you one guess, who that imposter is – Yep! You got it, it’s the Viral Trolle.
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
8:34 am
I knew one of the Hawks would have to break out the “we’re not at full strength” excuse (and, that’s what it is. Total excuse.) Part of the reason I was so annoyed after last night’s game was my anticipation of quotes like Josh Smith gave.
First off, this is the NBA. You suit up and play with who you have. All teams deal with injuries. Were the Celtics at full go last night? Nope. Last year did the Hawks get a bunch of wins against teams that were short handed? Yep. Did the Hawks lose some games short handed? Yes.
No excuses, no explanations in this league. Josh, grow up. If memory serves, the Hawks were at full go for the Orlando series last year. How did that turn out?
I’m calling it right now….Hawks lose tonight. They played pretty well against the Celtics. I don’t think they can bring that kind of energy a 2nd straight night.
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
8:37 am
It was not a bad pick, enough already. Stop. “Don’t hold the monster back”? You really want to be held to that? Marvin played well last night. And, I agree, he was not as bad of pick as many make him out to be.
But, let me ask you this….you get to do the ‘05 draft over again. You still taking Marvin over Derron Williams?
Guido
December 17th, 2010
8:43 am
Time to trade Marvin and Zaza to get a real defensive center next to Horford like Haywood or Camby. Morale victories are no good for this team. Hawks have to execute too may excuse in this article!!!!!.
With guys being injured they have to cut back on the self-inflicted wounds. It seems like the dumb plays are turnovers are mounting up. Where is Bibby’s leadership?
Guido
December 17th, 2010
8:45 am
Cue “I GOT YOU BABE” Because this is Ground Hog’s Day!!!!!!!
dukester
December 17th, 2010
8:49 am
Good morning the number one Marvin hater is in the building!!! Hey Marvin i want to congratulate you on a very game. You stepped up in the absence of JJ and Jamal. Hey look I am not asking you to play like this every night. Marvin if you could do these things i will start to cheer for you. Play tough defense night in and night out against your man, Promise me 10 rebounds a night, this is the biggest problem we have. And play with aggression and confidence. If you do those things you will be a welcomed Hawk in my eyes. But I warn you if you come out the next game and get 2 pts and 1 rebound you will fall back on the hot seat. Good game Marvin.
Double Zero Eight
December 17th, 2010
8:52 am
The Hawks are a mediocre team. They have no inside game. They live and die by the outside shot.
Their field goal percentage for outside shots is abysmal. When everyone get healthy, they will be a
good team, but they will not be an “elite” top tier team. As a result, they will not go very far in the
playoffs. They simply will not be able to beat, Milwaukee, Boston, Dallas or Orlando in a 7 game series. Unfortunately, that is the ugly truth.
Mike is back
December 17th, 2010
9:01 am
MC, marvelous job of breaking down the game…U keep doing that…ain gon have much to say. lol
You called it right…THE HAWKS GOTTA…STAY TOGETHER AND PLAY TOGETHER…NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ejh
December 17th, 2010
9:08 am
As a Hawks fan I am disappointed in the loss but not the effort. The team is losing close games in the fourth quarter because of turnovers. When they clean that up they are going to be right there. I say again by the end of the season and going into the playoffs this is going to be a team that no one wants to play in any round, because once they learn the mental aspect of the game, because they have the talent and athleticism, they are going to be very scary. Not only that because of injury Teague and Crwaford are going to get plenty of gametime action which is going to bold well for this team down the stretch. I’d rather take the losts in december and january why guys are learning, than in March and April. This team will make it to the eastern conference finals barrring any season ending injuries to any key guys.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
9:12 am
LD is really starting to piss me off.
He benched Marvin and Damien for WAY too long in the 1st half with this BS 2 foul rule.
NO ONE ON THE TEAM finished with over 3 fouls! NOBODY WAS CLOSE TO FOULING OUT.
That run at the end of the 2nd qtr by Boston destroyed us.
Section 303: You are a serious joke if you think we don’t win a game like this or SAS with a healthy JJ in the lineup.
it was not a bad pick: You keep making outlandish statements like Marvin would be the best SF in the NBA, then backtracking and saying he’d be 4th best (you didn’t the same thing when you said Joe had biggest contract in NBA). Stop saying stupid ish
LD STEP IT UP
lewis
December 17th, 2010
9:17 am
The Bobcats (9-16) have been plummeting of late, with two losses of 30 points or more in the past six days. After a 33-point loss Wednesday to the Memphis Grizzlies, coach Larry Brown described his team’s performance this way: “I had to get on them at halftime – beg them to play. That’s not what I’m supposed to be doing,’’ Brown said. “No effort, no teamwork, guys don’t run back. They blame it on the referees.’’ Charlotte Observer
sounds like woody during the playoffs
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
9:19 am
Is there any video out there of Horford’s Tech on Nate? LOL
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
9:20 am
Section 303
“But, let me ask you this….you get to do the ‘05 draft over again. You still taking Marvin over Derron Williams?”
Yeah i would still take Marvin, There was only 2 mistakes that Billy Knight made..1.Mike Woodson2.Sheldon Williams…Marvin has never had an oppurtunity to shine..I remember a couple years back,Joe Max got hurt and Marvin responded by eating up Carmelo in Denver and 2 more big scoring games..When Joe Max returned it was the same old crap..Iso Joe…D Will was given the keys from day one…Just face it, this is JOE MAX team…And he is simply not good enough to carry the hawks anywhere.We paid him the big bucks…Marvin is basically a role player on this team, he has the talent to be a top 5 SF if given the shots…But last night was a perfect example of his talents and why Mil had to think hard Bogut or Marvin…
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
9:20 am
This is like I was saying before the game yesterday:
These guys aren’t desperate to win games – they just say stuff like “we gotta make sure we don’t get embarrassed.” Every game against a good team it’s the same ish: turnovers in the 4th
IT’S TIME TO BREAK UP THE CORE. You don’t win titles with the same damn starting lineup 4 years in a row
SteveW
December 17th, 2010
9:24 am
We are still a very immature team. We don’t have Boston’s “edge”. They are professionals. We are wannabe’s. It’s as simple as that. Until we want rings instead of the NBA lifestyle, we will continue to be wannabe’s. Maybe in a couple of years it will all kick in.
Grading LD:
On Pre-game Strategy an A. He always seems to have a good game plan of what we need to do to win the game. Marvin at Ray last night – good. Starting the Big lineup, good.
During games, I can’t stand his rotations. His 2 foul rule in the first half is atrocious, but I guess other guys in the League do it. I would go more by feel and matchups than a 2 foul rule. If you want to get an effective Hawk out of the game, just drive on him a few times and he’s gone. Then you have Josh Powell in the game instead of Al etc.
If would give him an F for in game coaching. So the 2 equal a C for LD. That’s about right. right.
Suggestions: I would start ZaZa instead of Twin, and see if that motivates him. We need ZaZa and JT to be effective to be any type of contender. And I would play JT more, mistakes and all. I kinda hope Jamal’s still out tonight, so we get some more looks at JT and JC2, only going to help them.
One last thing. I think LD being an old NBA’er himself, starts Bibby and Collins in deference to vets, rather than developing talent. I think it’s an old school thing. JT is as athletically gifted as any PG in the League, and I mean Rose, Rondo, and Wall in that also. He needs time on the court to get comfortable. He was way too tenative in the 4th quarter last night. And if you saw him at Wake Forest, you know that is not his game. But he’s scared to make a mistake, because LD (aka Woody lite) will ream him out.
SteveW
December 17th, 2010
9:26 am
“I” not “if” to begin 4th paragraph above.
Rev in Tampa
December 17th, 2010
9:26 am
MC,
That was one of the best game break-downs that I have ever read. Thanks for the play-by-play of the critical juncture of the game.
It was a tough loss to take because the game belonged to the Hawks. I kept expecting Josh to breakout of his funk, but instead the Celtics pulled out the dagger.
SteveW
December 17th, 2010
9:28 am
Lewis – And Josh on a bad night.
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
9:31 am
JeJe, we’re beating the Spurs and Celtics, on the road, with Joe. Let me know when you return to reality. The Hawks don’t win either of those games, full strength or not. You know that, too. You can cut it out now.
It was not a bad pick, you wouldn’t take Marvin over Derron Williams. Please…you’re getting carried away. Look, I have no love for Joe Johnson. But, I do think that Coach Drew’s offense has helped with spreading the ball around. I goto 35-37 regular season games a year for the past 7-years. There is a difference. That’s not knocking Woodson, either.
But Marvin is too easy to take out of a game and he never sustains good effort. Last night he was good. Tonight…he won’t be. Just watch.
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
9:31 am
TWIN MUST STARTE THE REMAINDER OF THE YEAR,
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
9:34 am
JeJe
“it was not a bad pick: You keep making outlandish statements like Marvin would be the best SF in the NBA, then backtracking and saying he’d be 4th best (you didn’t the same thing when you said Joe had biggest contract in NBA). Stop saying stupid ish”
Oh here we go again, Last night spoke for its self, i been screaming for days that Marvin only need more plays called for him..his jumper is sweet…Marvin is not better than LBJ,Mello, and Durant, but other than those 3,Marvin has equal or more ability than all the rest..Granger gets 20 shots or better every night.. If Marvin got 20 attempts a night he would average 25 easily..Carron Butler lol..Marvin would rip him a new one if given the chance.to big and strong..I think deep down you know the Hawks screwed up given Joe Max all that money.He is not the highest paid but he has a max deal, and never shows up when it counts…no way around it…Time to let Marvin shine…He would have been a top 5 pick out of high school…
Rev in Tampa
December 17th, 2010
9:36 am
Since SteveW is giving LD suggestions, I will give my two cents…
A lot is happening during the last 5 minutes of the game. This is where the Hawks are struggling. Maybe LD should watch these games where the Hawks fall apart at the 5 minute mark with his coaching staff and let them grade his decisions, discuss the decisions he could have made, and plan how LD will manage these types of games. Just like professionals quarterbacks improve their game when the game ’slows down for them’, this practice might help LD overcome that ‘deer in the headlights’ approach to managing the Hawks down the stretch in close games.
I am saying this as a big supporter of Coach Drew.
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
9:40 am
You can tell the differance when twin starte, the defense is so much better, i just think LD have 2 play him longer than 14min it’s not enough, LD should always substitute defense for offense and when he played teague and bibby together i was wonder what the H is LD doing, LD HAVE 2 COACH MUCH SMARTER THAN THAT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Samuel
December 17th, 2010
9:41 am
Both teams full strength, the Celtics are 15 pts better.
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
9:41 am
Marvin will be M.I.A for the next 5games watch and see.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
9:42 am
Section 303
DWill has never won a ring, come on man..It isnt like Bowie over Jordan.Utah is Dwill team..Marvin should be the 2nd option afterJoe Max only due to contract reasons…I dont know why it seem stupid or crazy that i believe in a guy coming off a national title game in which he made the key tip in as a freshman against Dwill’s fighting Ilini,almost drafted number 1 in the whole draft,.The hawks have held him back..No way Smith gets more touches than Marvin….
i_am_soulstar
December 17th, 2010
9:44 am
Still a good effort considering no Jamal, no Joe
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
9:46 am
When joe come back.
STARTER BIBBY, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, COLLINS
BENCH JAMAL, DAMIEN, MARVIN, POWELL, ZAZA
RESERVE TEAGUE, MOE
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
9:47 am
It was not a bad pick, I agree that Marvin has all the tools. He does. I just do not think he has the desire to be great. I think he is happy with where he is at, and that’s fine. He is not a killer. I just do not think basketball is that important to him. I really don’t. That’s why you see that guy fold so easily most of the time.
jerrywest
December 17th, 2010
9:51 am
Drew needs to stop fouling out Horford and destroy the rhythm of the team. Smoove plays much better next to Al. Do you think Al would have fouled out in 26 minutes? That’s what Drew imposed on this team. Don’t act like an inflexible Woody.
Mike is back
December 17th, 2010
10:00 am
Rev in Tampa, interesting comments on LD…I would only add that maybe it would be a better idea to do with his coaching staff first.
Those other coaches have a better feel the players on the squad now…and they have seen this team play from afar…they may have notice some tendencies too…either away agree…it wouldn’t hurt to sit down and do an extensive review of strategy for closing out games.
J from the A
December 17th, 2010
10:02 am
Good game, Marvin. Hope to see more good games to come.
Where is Josh’s explosiveness? I don’t mean where was it last night. I mean where has it been all season. Don’t get me wrong. Josh is having a great season. But I’ve seen very little explosiveness around the rim from him this year.
Miles D
December 17th, 2010
10:07 am
AGAIN! JOSH COMPLAINING MAKING EXCUSES WHEN HE’S BEEN IN THE NBA GOING ON SEVEN YEARS WITH NO LEGIT POST GAME!! AND/OR TOUGHNESS DOWN LOW REBOUNDING!! REOCURRING THEME AGAINST THE “BIG TEAMS”! I’M TELLING YOU HAWKS FANS IT’S TIME TO SAY GOODBYE TO JOSH, MARVIN, AND ZAZA! CAN’T KEEP MAKING THE SAME EXCUSES WITH THAT KING OF EXPERIENCE!! OH! SO REALLY THEY GONNA LET A BUNCH OF OLD MEN OUTWORK AND THINK THEM!! C’MON MAN!!!
NCBravesFan
December 17th, 2010
10:11 am
Excellent breakdown, MC. Key sentences IMHO:
“As long as Rick Sund sticks with the “core” philosophy, the Hawks are going to have to figure it out. Their challenge is to see if through experience, and despite their shortcomings, they can reach that level.”
Given their bench, the lack of a center and “Marvin Williams, Mindfreak” … I’m guessing the answer is they can’t and they already know it.
bigdave
December 17th, 2010
10:15 am
“I hadn’t played since the last few minutes against Toronto,” he said. “I just wanted to get back in the flow but my timing was off. It was little mistakes I shouldn’t make regardless if you don’t play or not. That’s all on me. “
this kid is going to be alright..
bigdave
December 17th, 2010
10:15 am
he gets it.
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 17th, 2010
10:16 am
KUDOS TO JEFF TEAGUE FOR PLAYING CLOSE TO HIS POTENTIAL…HOPEFULLY HE ISFINALLY OVER HIS HUMP AND CAN PLAY UP TO HIS POTENTIAL..THAT WOULD BE HUGE FOR THE HAWKS…I HONESTLY THINK IT IS TIME TO BREAK UP THE HAWKS AND SHAKE THINGS UP..JOE JOHNSON SHOULD BE TRADED, BUT THAT JUST ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN…HERE ARE SOME TRADES THAT IM THINKING ABOUT..HAVENT REALLY RESEARCHED IF THESE TRADES ARE POSSIBLE OR NOT, SO FORGIVE ME IF THEY SEEM A BIT OFF OR IMPOSSIBLE…
TRADE#1: JOSH SMITH AND ZAZA TO MEMPHIS FOR RUDY GAY AND HASHEEM THABEET
TRADE#2: MIKE BIBBY AND MO EVANS TO WASHINGTON FOR KIRK HINRICH AND NICK YOUNG
TRADE #3: ETAN THOMAS TO PHOENIX FOR EARL CLARK
TRAD #4: MARVIN WILLIAMS AND JC1 TO PHILLY FOR SPENCER HAWES AND THADDEUS YOUNG
POTENTIAL LINEUP:
STARTING FIVE-
C-SPENCER HAWES
PF-AL HORFORD
SF-RUDY GAY
SG-JOE JOHNSON
PG-KIRK HINRICH
BENCH
C-HASHEEM THABEET
C-TWIN
PG – JEFF TEAGUE
SG – NICK YOUNG
SG – JORDAN CRAWFORD
SF – THADDEUS YOUNG
SF- JOSH POWELL
SF – DAMIEN WILKINS
PF/SF – EARL CLARK
PG/SG – PAPE SY
Miles D
December 17th, 2010
10:18 am
Darrell Starks,
No! Teague needs to get the start over Bibby and let Bibby come in for spot duty! Damien at the two, Josh at the three, Al at the four, and THOMAS at the five! And yes I said ETAN THOMAS AT THE FIVE!!! HE bring more toughness and rebounding! We need to change our thought process from finess to toughness! And sacrifice offense for defense because defensive toughness brings more offensive opportunities (i.e.Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Majic, Heat)! Plus, it would make our rotation deeper and more robust! LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
10:21 am
You people still bashing Marvin should be ashamed of yourselves. Josh Smith flat out didn’t show up last night, and Marvin played like Danny Grainger when he has it going.
But the focus is STILL on Marvin, because he doesn’t play like that all the time?
Please.
Tell the co-captain to keep being a factor in the game, even when his shot is off.
People on this board absolutely destroyed Joe Johnson when he had that 3 – 15 FG game @ New York, despite us comfortably winning the game . . and despite JJ performing in other areas ( 10 rebounds and 7 assists ).
Horford gets destroyed when he doesn’t show up.
But when Smith doesn’t show up, I guess it’s “well . . we’ll excuse him because he normally does show up”.
LOL . . the NBA is played on a game by game basis. And a team expects its star players to show up on a nightly basis. Even if he doesn’t play great basketball, at least make your presence known in the game.
Marvin is NOT a star. So I don’t expect him to consistently play at a high level I DO expect it from JJ, Josh, and Al.
If they don’t shoot well, at least affect the game in other ways. All 3 of those guys have done that in the past.
Unfortunately Josh, you excelling vs Charlotte will be a good thing, but it proves what people say about you and the rest of the squad . . that you and the boys are just too “soft” to take your games to that next level vs the top teams.
It’s easy to step up vs an inferior opponent.
Josh may have very well lost his spot in the All-Star game, with that performance last night. If Doc gets to pick the reserves, he’s NOT picking Josh over his boys Pierce or Garnett, even if Josh has better numbers.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
10:26 am
Billy Knight made 4 horrible choices that will affect this franchise for years to come
1.picked MMarvin Williams #2 over Darron Williams/CP3/Danny Granger!
2. picked Josh Childress#6 over Andre Iqudollar/ Lou Aldeng!
3. Picked Sheldon (Slum lord) Williams #5 over Brando Roy/Rudy Gay!
4. Hired a rookie coach ( Mike”deer in headlights” Woodson) to teach and coach at the time the youngest team in the NBA!!
5a. Rick Sund=Billy Knight Jr
5b. Larry Drew=Mike Woodson Jr
‘
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
10:29 am
Marvin is done for the next 12-15 games. Thats how he rolls people…He got his check last night..Good for you WNBA MVP Candidate!
Another GM
December 17th, 2010
10:30 am
Drew is a terrible coach. He is a real step back from Mike Woodson. I heard folks around Atlanta say when he was hired how he was really gonna use his bench, well what happened? Finally last night we saw Teague get some minutes and he was rusty but played well. Teague is the future PG of this franchise. The difference in the game last night was the Celtics have chemistry and know how to play as a team, Atlanta does not have a clue. Josh Smith is killing the chemistry of this team. I would keep Horford, Marvin, and Teague and build the team from that core. Horford and Marvin understand how to play team ball. Josh Smith is so overrated is sickening.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:37 am
YOU DON’T WIN RINGS KEEPING THE SAME STARTING LINEUP 4 YEARS IN A ROW.
Can we PLEASE start Teague and reduce Bibby to an Eddie House role?
Damien played damn well last night. He is not one of our best players thought. If he gets 2 fouls, LEAVE him in. HE FINISHED THE GAME with 2 FOULS
If we had gotten Avery, Marvin would be coming off the bench with Jamal, would have a defined role, and would be averaging 15 a game.
Instead, LD LEAVES THE SAME DAMN STARTERS OUT THERE EVERY GAME.
I don’t care if Bibby makes his shots – HIS SHOOTING IS THE ONLY WAY HE IMPACTS THE GAME. START TEAGUE
And I think ASG prefers if at least 1 player is injured – they can just use the injury excuse if we ever lose.
LD YOU TALK ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY. YOU NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TOO. YOUR 2 FOUL RULE IS !@#$!@#$%
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
10:40 am
LOL @ Josh for Rudy Gay. Memphis fans would laugh in your face with a trade like that. Memphis fans wouldn’t even trade Zach Randolph for Josh Smith.
I hate to tell people this, but only Hawk fans think of Josh Smith as a potential superstar. We get to see him do a lot of good things as Hawk fans, but Smith does not move the needle outside ATL.
None of our guys do.
And MilesD . . just because Etan is built like the Hulk, doesn’t mean that he’s some tough guy rebounder. He hasn’t been that for years.
Collins should only start ( or play ) against teams that have a scoring center that needs to be slowed down. Otherwise, he’s not going to be a factor, because he doesn’t consistently rebound, get block shots, or even deter shots.
Without another effective bruiser at PF or C, Josh and Al simply have to play bigger and tougher. That won’t happen when Horford plays PF and Josh plays SF. That gives both guys an “excuse” to play a little more softer.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:43 am
LD says: “I am glad that we are right there but we’ve got to mentally learn how to get over the hump.”
And how exactly are we going to mentally learn that? EVERY SINGLE GAME IT’S THE SAME ISH: PLAY HARD FOR 3 QTRS OR SO THEN COMMIT TURNOVERS. EVERY GAME IS THE SAME THING. YOU DON’T LEARN BY LOSING THE EXACT SAME GAME EVERY SINGLE TIME
CHANGES DAMNIT
O'Brien
December 17th, 2010
10:43 am
it was not a bad pick,
You would still take Marvin (over CP3 and Deron) if you had a do-over of the draft? Wow. I think you are related to Marvin.
LD needs to stop with this automatic 2 foul rule. Al finished the game with 3 fouls!
I think eventually, Al is going play more timid after picking up his first foul, because he will be afraid of getting a 2nd foul and being taken out the game.
MC,
Can we get an article/update on Pape Sy. Hawks selcted him with the 53rd pick, paid part of his buyout, brought him over, and he has not been seen or heard from.
Compare that to Boston, who selected Semih Erden with the 60th pick, and he is contributing for them (although its partly because Shaq and JO are injured).
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:47 am
People act like it was okay to see JC2 in there making rookie mistakes in the 2nd qtr.
WTH are you people smoking? We aren’t the freaking Timberwolves. We’re TRYING TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. You don’t let an experienced one-dimensional rookie play solid minutes ON THE ROAD against an ELITE team’s STARTERS
Besides the 3rd qtr when BOS was on fire, we pretty much played at their level.
I still wanna know, however, why BOSTON ALWAYS HAD UNCONTESTED SHOTS.
Every time Baby Pierce or Allen shot, you knew it was going in
This team will lose in the 1st round unless:
1)BOX OUT
2) PLAY DAMIEN MORE MINUTES
3) LET TEAGUE START IF HE PLAYS WITH THAT ENERGY
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:55 am
Another reason Boston is so much better than us, in addition to their far superior coaching, is that
THEY HAVE A MUCH HIGHER PAYROLL.
We are spending scraps and bones for Collins and Powell, whereas this team spent the MLE on J’Oneal (who hasn’t even played) and got guys like Delonte and Nate back
WE NEED TO INCREASE OUR PAYROLL IN ORDER TO STAY COMPETITIVE
We could’ve f’ing traded Marvin and Bibby for MONTA ELLIS or Marvin for Shaq
LOL
And those who think Smoove is an All-Star are crazy. He gets triple doubles and other inflated stats vs awful teams then throws temper tantrums if he stops getting calls
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:58 am
SWITCH up the starting lineup tonight.
EXPERIMENT AND START TEAGUE AND PLAY HIM WITH THE 1ST unit.
START DAMIEN WILKINS
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:59 am
And stop with the “we showed we can compete, we just need to finish” BS. We would’ve competed in this game 3 years ago. THIS TEAM NEEDS A WINNING MENTALITY WHICH IT DOES NOT HAVE
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
10:59 am
I am sick of some of you pseudo Hawks fans. I will chalk it up to being too emotional!!! Do the Hawks have problems to iron out? Yes!!! Are they very far away from being an elite team? I don’t think so!!! The hawks can beat the best teams.They did it last year and they will do it again this year. The team just has to take time to gel. They have to go thru their growing pains. As a Hawks fan I am just as frustrated in their inability to win close games in the 4th quarter against quality opponents as anyone, but I see great potential!!!
The Hawks are not going to make a trade, so don’t waste your time writing on the subject. Nor do they have to. They just need their roles defined and rotation refined. Drew has done a good job but has to make definitive decisions about his rotation, especially who will play at the end of games. I don”t like his rotations but I will give him a pass right now because I think its part of his learning curve. I just get sick of the negativity by so-called fans and their take on the Hawks. The media already does not show the Hawks respect!!! At least we as fans should. JJ does not deserve his contract, Marvin should be traded, Drew can”t coach, Josh needs to stop complaining. As if any fan on this blog can do better. That’s laughable!!! Who’s getting on the fans for not supporting the Hawks at home games. Has there even been a sellout this year? This is the best Hawks team we have had in decades but no support. Very WEAK FAN SUPPORT!!!
Mark my words, when JJ gets back the Hawks will be much more consistent and win many more close ones. In his absence the players have matured and grown to depend on their abilities and as long as JJ sees his players step up he will respond in kind. JJ was never an iso guy in Phoenix< that was forced on him and for those of you who don"t feel he earned his contract I ask what type of Hawks team did we have before he came? And what type of team do we have now? Its night and day!!! So haters please keep the negativity to yourself. The Hawks will be 3rd or 4th seed and will shock many people this year, just wait and see.
For all the real Hawks Fans keep your head up!!! We have a very good product that is getting better and I am very excited about this year and beyond!!!!!!!!!
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:02 am
Same ole story, different night. We’re in our typical 6-8 game sulk after a great winning streak folks. Expect another 1-2 embarassing losses and then they’ll go on a tear. How hard is it to play hard, every night for a full 48 minutes?
Josh proved once again he can’t play on the national stage. He and Horford were intimidated by the national tv audience, by superior players and thus tanked last night.
Props to Jeff Teague for showing he is capable of All Star play. The kid was dominating the competition in stretches. Giving flashes of that is great, but not when you suck 6-8 games in a row after. Hopefully he’s putting it all together. Great game.
Marvin again shows flashes that when he’s expected to be “the man” he comes through big. Why he can’t fit in on other nights, especially when Joe and Jamal are in is beyond me? At least he could hit the open shot, but like ZaZa, when he’s not the “featured” player he slides. Another awesome flash of All Star Talent that just never shows on a nightly basis.
Mo – How do you continue to play? Why won’t LD put in JC2 or Damien and just live with it? Your knee can’t be 100%? You’re just not there right now. You don’t deserve minutes.
rusty
December 17th, 2010
11:05 am
Josh stop making excuses you are getting paid for evey game. Start being a man ,start dunking the ball,stop trying to shoot outside jumpers keep your azz under the basket where it belongs. You are trying to be a finese player,man up for Christ sake & stop whining like a little puss. Woody was a horrible coach & it is starting to look like ld is his equal. He seems to absolutely have no feel for the game, after teague plays great he pulls him out of the game for bib by ,he always does the same thing to jc1 when a man is hot what the he’ll are you taint him out for mb or mo. Why the he’ll are you even playing mo. Some of the combos you put on the floor are just horrible. Mb leading this team just always means that we will play slow half court basketball.play jc2 he is already better than mo.stop playing jc1 at the point. I am starting to actually think that ld is a down grade. As far as jj goes he will score 20 plus points as long as he gets 20 plus shots. He is a ball hog & desroys all ball movement. Wilkins has to go out there & start looking for his shot.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
11:07 am
“The team just has to take time to gel. They have to go thru their growing pains. As a Hawks fan I am just as frustrated in their inability to win close games in the 4th quarter against quality opponents as anyone, but I see great potential!!!”
LOL @ the team needing time to gel. THE CORE HAS BEEN TOGETHER FOR 4 YEARS
that’s over 300 games
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:10 am
Wilkins will settle in and find his shot. Right now he’s trying his best to mesh with the team and not seem selfish. Let him get into the flow of the team and hope we find a way to keep him. He’s been a very nice role player thus far. Seems to bring it every night.
Props to Powell for playing through the knee injury. The kid brings it every night, hurt or not. He’s a warrior. Maybe some of you don’t like his talent level, but he’s doing what we brought him in for. Playing his best, giving his all and trying to help this team EVERY NIGHT.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:10 am
Fundamentals, you say Josh and Horford were terrified on the big stage. Yet, 3 of the 4 games they played against the Celtics were on national television, and guess what, Josh and Horford played great. Josh missed some attempts he normally make. But please don’t forget that Josh’s defense was EXCELLENT. In the first half, he had three steals, and even more deflected passes. Josh played the best defense out of the entire night. And on many of their attempts Josh and Al were both being fouled under the basket. The referees just have a very slow whistle in Boston, if you’re not wearing white and green (ask Lebron and Kobe about that one). The Hawks are going to be fine.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:14 am
Also, how is what Josh said, any different than what Dwight Howard said 2 weeks ago? Or how is it any different from what Boston said all of last season? How is it any different from what Gasol has been saying the last 3-4 weeks without Bynum? Every team says that, and its the truth. Last night the announcers mentioned Rondo and Shaq’s name as being injured and not available more than they mentioned Joe Johnson’s name. And then they mentioned Crawford’s name more than Joe Johnson. The fact that the Hawks are playing with out their best perimeter player (and defender), along with their sixth man of the year, that is a big thing. And any other team in the league would say so also. Every time ESPN spoke about the Bulls they made sure to mention that Boozer was injured (now Noah).
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:17 am
JeJe – I can admit to agreeing to some of the gel comments. We’re getting a real good idea where our problems lie. Hopefully Sund/ASG will find ways to improve this team during the free agent frenzy in Feb.
Right now I see our key trade pieces as Marvin, Mo, Bibby, ZaZa, Etan and Sy. JC1 might also be there, but I wouldn’t give him up for just anyone.
Needs = quick footed defensive/rebounding 7′center, 6′4″-6′8″ PG who can penetrate and defend, SF who can hit the 3 ball, rebound and defend.
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:23 am
O’Brien
yeah i would take marvin over Dwill again if the coach would promise that Marvin gets his touches…I must be the only guy who wacthes the game…when the team is healthy,Marvin is the 5th option on the hawks..How does he get so much of the blame?…What about the 1st option Joe max?..I still think marvin will ne a 25ppg scorer in the NBA..It just might not be with the Hawks..dwill has never won a ring also….
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:25 am
Ramon, I’m not condemning the team or Josh. Dude in my mind wasn’t that great on D last night. Boston scored inside at will on our bigs. No one really kept them from getting the shot they wanted, when they wanted. Josh spent alot of time whining. Horford got the LD treatment for his technical foul. They weren’t in the game, they weren’t in the flow, they got dominated by Big Baby, Erden, Pierce, KG in terms of hustle, and team play.
We’ll be fine, but we’ll never move forward till we can play our game, using our talent and dominate them the way we’ve all seen we can. Did it happen last night? Definitely not, and it wasn’t b/c Joe or JC1 were out, it was because we let down and let them dominate us w/o several of their key players. We lost playing their game. We were out hustled, out played mentally and therefore – blown out again at the end!
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:27 am
It was not a bad pick – you’re definitely Marvin’s mom or something. I love the kid. I do think he could be an All Star talent..on another team. He and ZaZa need to be on a team where they are the feature. That’s when they play their best. Here, they just don’t bring it b/c they can’t find their niche. Add Mo into the trade.
Where do you want your son and his two friends to go? I’d take D Will right now for all 3.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:30 am
Fundamentals, Josh wasn’t guarding the bigs most of the night, he was guarding Pierce. And when Josh was in the game Pierce was pretty quiet, especially in the first half. And in the second half Pierce didn’t score hardly anything.
Also, the only person on the Hawks bench who may be as strong as Glen Davis, Shaq, or Perkins, is Etan Thomas. But he doesn’t have any quickness or lift to be able to play for long stretches of time.
The sad part of all this is knowing that we could’ve had Shaq if Sund wasn’t having a love affair with Marvin’s potential. Now you could have Bibby, Wilkins, Josh, Horford, and Shaq while Joe was out.
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:31 am
last night was a perfect example of how Marvin has been held back in Atl…tonight i gurantee that if he get plays ran for him he will eat Wallace alive..the guy is a beast..that is a complete mismatch..just to big and strong…If i was drew i would run him off screens all night long.Marvin has the face up game, Range on his shot, and he can play with his back to the basket…Its easy to bash a guy who goes 3-7 from the field, but between Max,jamal and Josh thats 55 shots attempted…
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
11:35 am
LOL @ DAMIEN being a victim of the 2 foul rule…Someone WHO DOESN’T EVEN START
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
11:36 am
LOL @ it was not a bad pick.
Let’s say you’re right and Marvin is the 4th best SF in the NBA (LOL!):
he still is not as good as Deron…You know why? Because DERON IS THE BEST POINT GUARD IN THE NBA AND IS A VIABLE MVP CANDIDATE
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:38 am
Fundamentals
lol, yall crazy on here..ZaZa cannot play..A change will not help him..Marvin could start for every team in the NBA except Heat,Thunder,nuggets,celtics, i forgot about pierce….maybe a team like the Clippers .
Jordan,Bledsoe,and 1st rouder for marvin,zaza,Mo..
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:43 am
It was a not a bad pick, if Sund could get Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st for Marvin, Zaza, and Mo.
I will think he has something over the head of Sterling.
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:43 am
JeJe
Dwill is not better than Rondo..
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:43 am
JeJe – Marvin has a key opportunity to display his All Star/ MVP talent vs Charolotte. We’ll see what happens.
Ramon, I’ll agree with that. Sad we got Etan who will never play. I just saw the out of touch, whiney 18-year old Josh last night, not the infectious dominating Josh we see some nights. He’s the key when we “take a night off”. Boston & Spurs = total mental breakdown.
We had the talent, we just got outplayed, outcoached, outhustled – especially at crunch time.
Leadership begins with the C’s – Last night Josh & Al didn’t lead us – Marvin and Teague did.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:45 am
I will say this, I don’t think Marvin was the bad pick. Simply because when he was picked 26 other GMs would’ve picked him also. Now I do think Sund was stupid for giving him such a large extension. His extension should’ve been 2 years with a team option for a year three. I actually believe Marvin would average 17-18 ppg if he played in Utah, Phoenix, or Golden State.
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
11:48 am
Enter your comments here
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:54 am
ZaZa has the same impact as Marvin night in and night out. Compare their nimbers if we compare them w/ equal minutes (multiply ZaZa’s stats by 2 since he plays 14.6 minutes compared to 29.6 minutes.)
Marvin 10.3 points, 4.6 boards, .3 blocks, .57 steals, 1.3 assists
ZaZa 8.6 points, 7.2 boards,.84 boards, .54 steals, 1.4 assists
Yeah, Marvin is sooooo much better. We should extend him today.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:57 am
I agree Ramon 100% w/ your 11:45 post
IMHO Marvin would benefit from being elsewhere. Both kids don’t have a niche here. It’s so obvious when other guys are out. The question is – do you deal the other guys to feature Marvin or vice versa? I just don’t see the fire in Marvin every night. He’s injury prone, I’d hate to rely on him as our feature.
What could Portland offer to get the kid home?
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
12:03 pm
Boston has 3 proven go to guys. The Hawks had 1 last night and that’s Bibby who is much like Ray Allen who has to come off screens. That was the difference. Josh had an off night because he was pressing. The Hawks have to learn to execute down the stretch and that won”t improve until their regular rotation is back. Bibby, JC1, JJ, Josh and Al. If this group executes down the stretch you have to pick your poison. But they have to run their offense and look for the rhythm shot instead of iso. You could add marvin in that end of the game rotation at time. But execution is the key. With JJ and JC1 in it makes everybody better. Josh and Al are still complimentary players.
Big Baby & Nate can hit the open shot because everyone is worried about Ray, Paul and KG. Look at the elite teams and you will see that they have at 2 or 3 options at the end of games. The Hawks are still figuring out where to go and how to trust each other down the stretch. Because of injuries the process will take longer. 2 years ago it was Bibby & Joe, Last year it was Joe & Jamal. This year with the motion offense it could be either of the 5 but preferably, JJ, JC1 or Bibby. The more options the better. The better the execution the more confident they will become in those situations. The more they buy into the system the harder they practice on it. The better they practice the better results. Its a process and Boston, LA, Miami, Dallas, Orlando and the Spurs have been tested and proven in those areas, not yet in ATL.
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
12:08 pm
The warrior’s are 9 win 16 loss and need a SF bad, marvin 2 warrior’s would be perfect for both team plus he would be close 2 home.
MARVIN, JAMAL, ZAZA, AND 1ST FOR MONTA, BIEDRINS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
12:14 pm
The deep bench of the Hawks will benefit them when their roles are better defined. The 2nd unit should always be Teague, JC1, DWilkins, JPowell & Zaza. Then the Hawks can mix and match depending on the situation. They can legitmately run 11 or 12 deep which never happened under Woody. I believe the Hawks will be stronger if Marvin came off the bench and they started Collins. Collins still wouldn”t play but 15 or 20 minutes a game but that presence in the middle would free up Al and Josh. It might also provide Marvin with more consistency.
Right now, Mo has been usurped by DWilkins. With Collins starting the bench becomes Teague, JC1, Dwilkins, Marvin with ZaZa and Powell playing based up the need. Marvin would still play starters minutes but Al would get the bulk of the game at the 4.
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
12:15 pm
Good trade for both team.
WARRIOR’S STARTER CURRY, WRIGHT, MARVIN, DAVID LEE, ZAZA.
BENCH JAMAL, CARNEY, REGGIE, BRANDON, GADZURIC
HAWKS STARTER MONTA, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, BIEDRINS
BENCH TEAGUE, JC2, DAMIEN, POWELL, COLLINS
RESERVE MOE, BIBBY
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
12:17 pm
@Another GM
“Josh Smith is killing the chemistry of this team”!!!
You are the first my man to observe that about Josh. He has been killing chemistry for seven years now!!! He and Marvin should be shopped ASAP!!
RICK SUND= BILLY KNIGHT Jr
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 17th, 2010
12:21 pm
LOL @ JE JE….WELL SAID JE JE WELL SAID
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
12:30 pm
How is Josh killing the team? I totally disagree!!!! He brings great energy to the team, albeit negative at times LOL. Its still energy!!!! He has grown quite a bit and although his emotions betray him at times he adds too much to this team. His jumper has improved, he is playing more under control and he is electric on both ends of the court.(blocked shots & slam dunks) If he can continue to mature ang get the ball to the pg faster on breaks he would be on point. He will probably make the All Star team this year. You take him out of the lineup and we have nobody to protect the rim. He protects Bibby and makes Al better on D.
For the last time: THE HAWKS WILL NOT MAKE ANY TRADES!!!!!!!! If they play this motion offense better they will be very hard to beat. Al has become a consistent scorer, Josh is scoring down low and on the perimeter. We just need Joe to stay consistent. I keep reiterating that JJ healthy in a non iso fueled offense is deadly. Early on he was missing shots he normally knocks down and the Hawks were still winning.
They have the talent this year, right now to get past the 2nd round and with confidence who knows how far they can go!!!!!
REPETITION
December 17th, 2010
12:41 pm
THE JOSH SMITH ARGUMENTS ON THIS BLOG ARE GETTING LAAAAAAAAAAME. ENOUGH!
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
12:41 pm
Chris E, Josh does not bring energy every night. Last night was a perfect example. He was awful. Falling back to his old ways of half a$$ing up the floor, shooting bad shots, and falling victum to his low basketball IQ.
Guy has all the potential in the world. His 10-cent head just continues to get in his way.
cp
December 17th, 2010
1:00 pm
It was a tough L last night but you cant be mad at their effort. They did not quit when they got hit in the mouth and this team is known for laying down when they get hit… Good games from Marvin and Teague… Damien was also big off the bench…. The rest of the starters were terrible…
My problem last night was with some of the moves LD made… I thought he pulled Teague to early. Dude was playing lights out but he put Bibby back in who didn’t do much of anything. He also pulled Damien and put in Mo who has done nothing this season. Its time to put Mo in a suit and let Damien and JC2 have the minutes. JC2 will be fine out there. His mistakes did not cost us the game. Not boxing out or putting a hand in someones face hurt down the stretch. The Celts were getting wide open jumpers and when they did miss guys were not boxing out down low..LD really has to work on those lineups he throws out there because it has hurt this team a few times already this season.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
1:01 pm
Section 303, your comment is foolishness. You said Josh doesn’t bring energy every night. So how do you explain Josh’s 3 steals in the first quarter? How do you explain the commentators speaking about Josh’s excelling at defense against Pierce for 2-3 minutes of the first half last night? Josh had some really nice assists last night. Josh was the only Hawk (besides Teague) who was attacking the defense and trying to score in the paint or draw contact also. Majority of Josh’s misses were around the basket in the lane. And they were attempts that he normally makes, so how do you call that low basketball IQ?
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
1:01 pm
“JeJe
Dwill is not better than Rondo..”
Yes he is.
The announcers were morons last night for thinking Rondo is MVP, when the guy has missed a ton of games this year.
D.Will is on a far less talented roster. He is the best PG in the NBA followed by Rose then Rondo AT THIS POINT
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
1:02 pm
Josh’s energy was not a problem last night.
He took a few too many jumpshots. He just had a really bad game
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
1:03 pm
There’s no way you can be the best PG in the NBA with no offensive game (Rondo)
cp
December 17th, 2010
1:05 pm
What I dont like about Josh is how he doesn’t attack the rim as he once did. His first two years in the league dude tried to rip down the rim if he was within a few feet of it. Now Josh tries to lay the ball up way too much and he misses a lot of easy shots… I think he got caught up in trying to be more than a dunker and it has taken away from something he once did well. Nique or somebody needs to get in his ear and tell him forget what folks think about him and go back to trying to destroy the rim when he gets that close to it. That finesse b.s. just ain’t cutting it. I think it was his first or second year where he was like in the top 3 in dunk attempts or most of his field goals came from dunks. I have to look that up to make sure but either way he needs to go back to dunking more instead of those soft layups.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
1:16 pm
cp,
It’s mostly because Smoove is IN LOVE with shooting the J now
He thinks that if he plays good D, he can do whatever he wants on O (like MIA does) and also that LD will let him
No accountability no this team.
Really….None
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
1:21 pm
shop Marvin and Josh ASAP!
RCIK SUND= BILLY KNIGHT Jr
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
1:23 pm
Seriously, if we shop Marvin, Bibby, and Mo, and maybe JC1, and increase our payroll a bit, this team could be a contender for the next 3 or 4 years. We just need to spend more in players so we have better players in Mo’s spot of the rotation as well as at PG.
This team is not far off.
Oh yeah – a better coach would help too
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
1:31 pm
JeJe – I’m not going to bash LD. To me he’s done reasonably well.
I think Bibby has value as a spot up shooter, we’d just like to see Teague play hard more often & consistently. Dude had a few good nights lately, but not all season. It’s promising, but don’t sell out our only other PG prospect.
Marvin & Mo – enough said. We’ve beat them to death.
JC1 – I think he hurt his back when someone fell on him against the Spurs. He was really coming around and finally fitting into LD’s offense. He’s worth keeping, but only if ASG will finally venture into the tax. I wouldn’t keep him at the expense of another player – hopefully big or PG. He’s good trade bait, but risky to lose.
The real question is when will ASG believe in this team enough to risk going into the Luxury Tax? Without those pieces we’ll always come up 20-30 million short.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
1:34 pm
Smoove is the key. I like his J now and can respect that he has one. He can’t fall in love with it though. His strength should always be taking it to the rack HARD. He should’ve abused Pierce, but the C’s got the best of Smoove and AL. I told my wife when the game started – this ain’t good. Smoove and Al will fall victim to their mind games…and they did.
Sorry Ramon, Josh just didn’t get it done last night. You’re the only person that can’t see that?
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
1:38 pm
Ramon, I guess you missed Josh getting beat on a base line out of bounds play for a layup. People who were paying attention heard the announcers point that out, too. “He has to know that pick is coming”–Steve Kerr.
He was lazy running the floor and getting back on D. My favorite…he tries for a steal, misses, runs past half court, and does not bother to get back on D until the C’s had already taken a shot. Yeah, #5 was all heart last night. You’re right (read: sarcasim).
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
1:41 pm
JeJe, you really think a coach matters that much? Doc Rivers was on his way out the door…enter the Big 3. Suddenly, he’s considered the one of the league’s best coaches.
Coach Drew is going through same problems Woodson had with this crew. Random nights of no effort, quitting on games, rising up some nights…these things fall on the players more than the coach.
I’m for bringing back the player/coach, myself. Though, on this team, not sure who I would want to shoulder that load. Horford? Wonder if Al would take himself out of the game with two fouls?
Rod from College Park
December 17th, 2010
1:42 pm
Marvin had a great offensive game last night. His defense was not good, but that is LD’s fault for trying to have him chase Ray Allen around. He played with aggressivness, confidence and he stepped up. As we all know, this is not Marvin. I look for him to disappear either tonight or the next game and hibernate. In the NBA you are judged on being consistent, and Marvin has only proven to be consistently inconsistent.
All regular bloggers,
Please stop feeding into this It was not a bad pick character. He obviously is just posting crazy things to get people to react him. One game does not a season make. I mean he actually said that Marvin would start on other teams in the NBA. That should be enough to discredit him. No way he actually believes any thing he has been posting. The reason Josh takes more shots than Marvin is because he shots a higher percentage from the field than Marvin, he plays hard a very high percentage of the time, he has proved to be a much better player than Marvin from day one, and he does not play scared, as Marvin does. That is why.
That being said, Josh and Horford were terriible yesterday. Josh actually played some very good defense on KG and Pierce, but his offensive game was terrible. He needs to get back to finishing at the rim strong. He does not get the foul calls because he has started finishing weak at the rim. Maybe Joe has rubbed off on him. His attitude and body language is reverting back to the way he was last year and the year before with Woodson. Drew needs to get him under control before he goes back to his old ways.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
1:45 pm
Fundamentals, in the second half Josh played bad. But am I the only person who saw it was HIS steals that lead to the fast breaks in the first quarter? I didn’t say he played great. But don’t confuse with the shots he missed on the offensive side as not bringing energy or making a difference. Josh guarded one of the hardest SF to guard in the league in Pierce. And guess what? Pierce went 5 for 15. Josh Smith held Pierce to 5 for 15 (and one of the threes he hit was in transition against Bibby). So how is that not showing up? Many of the fans only look at one side of the court, and that is the offensive side. But on defense, no one on the team played better than Josh. KG went 8 for 10, Erden went 5 for 6, Ray Allen hit 4-5 shots in a row to begin the 3rd. Glen Davis went 8 for 15. So as easy as it is to say Josh didn’t do good on offense. Its just as easy to see that he had the most impact of everyone on defense.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
1:47 pm
Josh Smith does not know how to shoot a layup, ie “finger roll”. Does not know how to stop an “pop”.Does not know how to shoot a bank shot.This is learned in middle school and high school.Does not have an up and under move. No drop step..Shall I continue?No handle….. Give me Rudy Gay over him any day of the week!!! ..He’s at a major disadvantage against the elites!! But he thinks he’s the next Magic Johnson…”Chemistry killer” he is….
RICK SUND=BILLY KNIGHT Jr
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
1:49 pm
Section 303, Josh was picked out of the time out. Bibby was supposed to call out the pick because that was his man. That’s Basketball 101 to know that if your man sets a backdoor pit to call it out. Boston runs so many sets out of timeouts (because that’s what Rivers is famous for, being one of the best coaches at getting plays out of time outs) that Josh shouldn’t have ‘just known’ that the pick was coming. As you said Steve Kerr said that. What game do you remember Steve Kerr playing that he shut down his man? What highlight on defense have you ever seen from Steve Kerr? The most famous move on defense Steve Kerr ever made was taking a jab from MJ in practice on defense. Other than that Kerr and defense doesn’t go together. If your man set the pick, you’re supposed to a) call out the pick, and b) pick up the free man who’s rolling to the basket. EVERY coach in America teaches that from middle school to the NBA.
ReddJonn68
December 17th, 2010
1:55 pm
We have had one glaring need for several years a serviceable PG. Is the last real PG to play here named Mookie Blaylock we have had nothing but quick fixes since then. Teague suffered because Woodson refuse to play him, his confidence is shot. This team will go no where until we make a commitment to either sign or move up in the draft & sign a real floor general.
God bless Bibby for what he has given us but Sacramento let him go for a reason the upside had swung the other way. We can bring in any coach or another scorer at center or the wing but until you have a game manager, ala Rondo we will not compete with the big dogs!
I would take Andre Miller & even Baron Davis at this point, they would love to actually compete for a title. OKC traded away a decent young guy, because Westbrook is a monster. Our scouts are just not finding any jewels in the rough, any true Hawks fan knows every year we have issues at the point. When will management realize it as well.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
1:55 pm
Ramon – Second half, end of quarters, end of game. That’s when it matters. You said it yourself. Everyone did great till 2-3 minutes to go in the 1/2. Second half we just started sliding. Josh is the anchor of our TEAM defense and a CAPTAIN. Who cares if Pierce was “held down” by Josh’s amazing D if the entire unit around him went off for amazing % and great #’s. Josh is our anchor, he’s the fire to our TEAM D. He wasn’t there last night when it mattered. Horford lost his head as well. Collins was running out to fould folks shooting 3’s a times. TEAM defense takes chemistry, it takes teamwork. Josh is the core of that unit. They, as a team, played terrible TEAM D last night with both boys wearing C’s going down like chumps cause they couldn’t handle the trash talking and mental game that the C’s offer. They abused us late, when it mattered. That’s all that counts. I don’t care if Josh got 80 steals and 100 boards in the first quarter. Where was he at the end of every quarter? Where were they as TEAM DEFENSE when it really counted? Answer – on the bench cursing (AL) or on the court whining (Josh).
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
1:58 pm
Ramon, the play the Celtics ran was just as middle school. There was nothing complicated about it. Josh was not paying attention. And, when it comes to making the right call on the floor, I’m going with Bibby everytime (not every now and then, everytime) over Josh Smith. I need less than a second to make that call.
Josh Smith…he’s got all the talent. When he focuses, gives effort, he’s an all star. When he doesn’t….he’s whinning to refs, or yelling at the coach, or pouting during timeouts (ex: Philly game a couple weeks ago).
You’ve watched that guy play just as much as I have. You know effort, focus, attention…all problems for Josh Smith. And, they were all problems for him again last night.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:00 pm
Section 303 teaching Basketball 101 – AMEN Brother!
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
2:00 pm
ZaZa is “THE BIG STIFF’. just brutal to watch most of the time..Wow….
RICK SUND=BILLY KNIGHTJr
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
2:01 pm
Fundamentals,
The 2 foul rule destroyed us yesterday. Keeping Damien out the rest of the 2nd qtr because of 2 fouls? JC2 was awful out there. What is peoples’ obsessions with this guy? He is a one-dimensional STREAKY SHOOTER. He does not AFFECT THE GAME IN ANY OTHER WAY. He is worse than Flip Murray and probably compares to Jeremy Richardson.
We need Damien playing more minutes.
Just rest Mo if he is not healthy (or in general). STOP THIS BS 2 FOUL RULE IF GUYS NEVER ACTUALLY FOUL OUT
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
2:03 pm
Josh Smith does not have offensive talent..That’s why he was drafted 18th! And on most night he is actually a major liablity on the floor in crunch time because of his real immature offensive skill sets..
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
2:05 pm
slimjr, take it easy. Josh Smith can be a maddening player to watch. But, the guy has talent dripping out of his pores. He just has to try hard all the time and play smarter.
There is a really good (possibly all star) player in there somewhere. We’ve all seen that.
Leo the Lion
December 17th, 2010
2:07 pm
I don’t know about trading anybody, but I will say let Teague play a couple of games with extended minutes to see what the kid can do given a chance. The only way to learn now is trial by error. It cannot get any worse.
ReddJonn68
December 17th, 2010
2:12 pm
@slimjr Please don’t bring up draft position because we have had very high draft choices & mid round draft choices & still missed outstanding talent. Remember the Timberwolves draft in the top ten every year, yet the only jewel was KG!
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
2:14 pm
I am pretty sure Teague plays 8 min or less tonight or DNP-CD.
That’s Larry Drew.
Woody II
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:14 pm
JeJe – I agree on the 2 fouls and about Damien’s value. I’d rather see JC2 than Mo. Maybe he could develop. Mo is obviously not 100% and struggling. Even 100% he’s hard to use on this team, even with JJ and JC1 out, I’m still not sold on him finding a niche here. He’s spotty on his shooting and foul prone. JC2 should be suited and playing in games where we hold the lead or against opponents w/ losing records. He’s a future prospect. Don’t turn into Woody.
slimjr – Josh has come a long way since the draft. I’ll admit to bashing him for last night, but he’s making progress each season. He’s developing into a potential All Star. He’s not there this year, but give him some credit.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
2:16 pm
Section 303, I’ve also watched Bibby play, and Bibby’s lack for communicating on defense is well chronicled. You could even see it on last season’s plays when Bibby and Horford would switch on back door screens. Somehow, Bibby’s man would be picked up by Horford, but Bibby would never rotate to Horford’s man. Bibby and back cut screens never go well together.
Fundamentals, Josh still played good on defense in the 2nd half. On the offensive end, he missed point blank easy shots, and also didn’t get any calls. And you speak about team defense. Josh can’t help Marvin run behind screens after Ray Allen. Josh can’t guard Pierce on the perimeter, and go box out Glen Davis at the same time from the offensive board. Horford wanted to play PF. And last night he went up against his first true test at PF, and got handled. Garnett and Davis both had 3 offensive rebounds a piece.
In the end, Pierce (Josh’s man) went to playing point forward. And Josh was right there the entire time. Pierce didn’t get his assists from driving and kicking. Pierce got his assists from standing at the top of the perimeter, and waiting for KG, Allen, and Davis to flare off of a screen. There’s nothing Josh can do about that. Josh can not provide help defense off of Pierce at the top of the perimeter (Pierce’s favorite spot beyond the arc). That’s LD responsibility to made adjustments in that situation.
As I said, Josh played terrible on offense. But his defense was great. And I’d rather have a night were someone plays terrible on offense and great on defense, than someone who plays great on offense and terrible on defense (Bibby, JC, and even Horford sometimes). Please remember though, Josh did show maturity on offense by refraining himself. Josh went 0-8. The last 8 games, Josh has been averaging 15 shot attempts or so, while shooting 50%. He could’ve easily had the mindset, I may make my next 7 shots. Instead, Josh played in the offense, and didn’t force it in the second half. Josh was only 0-2 in the second half. So was the biggest mistake that he didn’t take more shot attempts in the second half?
ReddJonn68
December 17th, 2010
2:18 pm
Why is everyone bashing J-Smoove?????? If he had any leadership around him during his tenure or a coach like Rivers or Sloan this guy would be headed to the HOF with his defensive prowess. If someone could lead & teach Josh, he could be an offensive Dennis Rodman, like it or not ” The Worm ” is a HOFer.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:19 pm
Ramon – Good work dude. I’ll grant you all that. I guess my overall dissappointment in how the game went down leaves me bashing the 2 – C’s on this team that played. True – LD should’ve made an adjustment. Maybe, just maybe Doc and Pierce made the decision to pull Josh further and further from the action to negate his help on D.
O'Brien
December 17th, 2010
2:28 pm
It was not a bad pick,
Nothing against Marvin. But JJ is consistently double teamed, and coaches game plan against JJ. but he still averages 20, 5 and 5 (although he is struggling this year).
Marvin is usually open, and usually has mismatches, being guarded by Kirk Heinrich and smaller players. If Marvin was consistently double teamed,no way he averages 20.
As For the draft, We needed a PG. we already had Josh Smith (drafted as a SF), and al Harrington. At PG, WE needed help. That’s my biggest reason for drafting CP3 or Seton. Plus PF is usually a more important position than SF.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
2:35 pm
Fundementals, I can understand that. One thing I have noticed is that when Al plays PF, he doesn’t post up any more than he does at the Center position. And that really is alarming. I thought Al wanted to play PF because it would be a mismatch allowing him to post up on the block. However, I haven’t seen Al try to use the size advantage against PFs. I’ve seen Josh post up Garnett for the last 3 seasons, and have good success. But Horford still seems more interested in being at the top of the elbow waiting for a kick out. That is ok for a guard. But Horford has to put pressure on the defense to force more fouls and get to the line. For a big (in my opinion), if you have 20 points in a game, and only take 4 free throw attempts, you didn’t have a great game. When you score, you help yourself only. But when you draw fouls you help the entire team, because now when any of your teammates get fouled, they’re shooting if in the penalty.
Sautee
December 17th, 2010
2:38 pm
“not a bad pick”,
Despite Rod’s excellent advice, I’ll take this one up with you. It’s yet another unsupported statement (among many that you have made)
From the last blog where you said this: “If Al is not hitting jumpers he does not help you really at all, not really a great rebounder”
Al is 6th in the league among centers in rebounding and all of the other 5 are bigger and longer than he is.
As far as “other” things besides hitting his jumper, here’s some of what Al does:
Assists: 2nd among centers
FT%: 3rd among centers
Efficiency: 2nd among centers
This doesn’t mention his position defense, for which Pacers Coach Jim O’Brien lauded him for after Horford held 7′ 2″ 278 lb. Roy Hibbert to 3-14. Nor does it speak to a lot of little things like deflections, and tipped rebounds to a teammate.
Funny that you can notice all of the little things Marvin does and NONE of his teammates.
No doubt Horford was AWFUL last night, but to say that unless he’s hitting his jumper that he’s no help is a grossly negligent statement. And speaks to your growing lack of credibility here.
And it makes many of us wonder if you watch the Hawks or just watch Marvin. Because if you watched the Hawks then you would KNOW that Al has the most intangibles on the team. And the coaches around the league realize it which is why he made the All-Star team last year. There were many centers with better stats, but Al was the one chosen. Ever wonder why?
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:39 pm
Keep it rolling Ramon – good stuff. Horford tried a few inside, but got snuffed by Garnett.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:46 pm
it was not a bad pick = marvin’s grandma
Rod from College Park
December 17th, 2010
2:47 pm
Ramon,
First time we agree. Josh played very good on the defensive end last night. The guy that did not is the guy that everyone is praising, Marvin. He let Ray Allen take 3 uncontested 3 point shots at the beginning of the 3rd quarter, which helped spread the lead for the C’s. I will give him a pass though because LD should not have had Marvin checking Ray, he is not quick enough or agile enough to get around those screens. When I played it was called KYP(Know your personnel). He made up for it on the offensive end last night.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:47 pm
it was not a bad pick = rose colored glasses for viewing Marvin & binoculars for the remainder of the team
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:48 pm
Doesn’t every parent/grandparent think their kid is the best in town, no matter what = it was not a bad pick.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:49 pm
I just got new sneakers for Christmas. Can I show up twice a month for 7.5 million?
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
2:52 pm
“DWill has never won a ring, come on man..It isnt like Bowie over Jordan.Utah is Dwill team..Marvin should be the 2nd option afterJoe Max only due to contract reasons…I dont know why it seem stupid or crazy that i believe in a guy coming off a national title game in which he made the key tip in as a freshman against Dwill’s fighting Ilini,almost drafted number 1 in the whole draft”
Well by this logic, the Charlotte Bobcats were perfectly justified in taking Adam Morrison (2 rings, amazing college career) over Rudy Gay (0 rings, good but not great college career).
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
2:53 pm
Rod, I agree, Teague should’ve been on Allen.
What I don’t understand is, why did they use the ‘big’ lineup against the Celtics? If the Hawks SWEPT the Celtics last season with their small line up. Why are they going to come into this game (without Shaq or Perkins playing) and attempt to change what they do. If they wanted to get out in run (as they said), wouldn’t it be easier with a small lineup (an extra guard) compared to having Collins in the game? You don’t adjust to a team that you’ve beaten 4 out of the last 5 times you’ve played.
Sautee
December 17th, 2010
2:53 pm
Ramon,
Good stuff. I haven’t been critical of LD, but I thought it was a mistake to start Twin last night. As you said, Josh has matched up well with KG in the past. And LD said he was doing it because Erden was “long” and would bother Al.
LOL, is he “longer” than Hibbert?
I posted yesterday that Al needs to be WAY more aggressive on offense, both driving to the rim AND getting post position and taking advantage. I’m delighted in his improvement in his face up game, but like you I’m wondering where the inside game went.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
2:59 pm
@ Sautee, exactly. I’d rather have Al become a poor man’s Ewing, or Alonzo than a poor man’s Dirk.
More and more I’m starting to think maybe the best person for this job is Mike Fratello. (as would’ve been the case with Casey, or Jackson) To hire anyone besides Avery or Fratello is saying every night will be a new experiment, because the coach has never been there. And how can you continue to try and improve to a new level, if its all an experiment.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
2:59 pm
How many boards will Wallace take down tonight? Assuming he plays?
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
3:02 pm
“That’s Larry Drew.
Woody II”
Just the fact that he has gotten this team to share the ball after five years of iso-Joe and that he has squeezed something useful out of lifelong scrubs Collins and Powell makes him better than Woody. Most of the complaining about him seems to be centered around his substitution patterns; I’m willing to give him a little longer than 20 games to figure out how to best use his personnel on this mismatched, unbalanced roster.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
3:02 pm
Joe Johnson minus LD coaching + Josh,Al and Marvin on the floor in the 4th qrtr at the sametime vs. teams above .500= fail 80% plus of the time…..Just sad………….
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
3:08 pm
Guys, I’m out. Head down to Philips in a few hours. Hitting Taco Mac, then off to the game. Hope some of you guys are going to show. I’m thinking this game will be a loss. I just have a bad feeling.
Ramon, you know I value your insight. I just do not agree on Josh Smith last night. I thought he was awful.
See you guys at Philips tonight, right?
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
3:08 pm
slimjr, I do not understand anything you just wrote.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
3:11 pm
Tonight is a key game to test our resolve. Are we growing out of our tendency to go into a 6-8 game funk or can we handle our business against an obviously inferior opponent.
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
3:13 pm
I’m not a Marvin supporter nor basher. But I think it’s complete BS for people to still be talking about what he supposedly didn’t do last night, when Horford and Smith combined couldn’t get 10 pts and 10 rebs last night.
If and when Marvin doesn’t show up again, go right ahead and bash the dude. But don’t be trying to find any way possible to praise Horford and Smith for that pathetic performance last night.
In 2 games vs the Celtics this year, Josh Smith is averaging 1.5 pts and 3.5 rebounds . with him being 0 – 11 FG. And people don’t see that as a problem?
People keep talking about competing in the 2nd round. Well . . who do folks think we’ll be facing in Round 2?
If we can’t win the division, and can’t finish 2nd, then the best seed we can get is a 5 seed. Which means that even if we win the 1st round matchup, we’re playing Boston in Round 2.
So don’t be dissing Marvin for last night’s effort. That’s twice now that both Smith and Horford have gotten punked the Celtics.
Those two guys are our stars. They’re not role players. If they don’t start playing like badazzes vs the Celtics, this will continue to happen to them and us.
Samuel
December 17th, 2010
3:15 pm
Ramon,
In case you haven’t noticed, Avery Johnson is in next to last place with about the same talent level as the Hawks.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
3:15 pm
“tonight i gurantee that if he get plays ran for him he will eat Wallace alive”
More than half the players in the league can drop 20 a game if they are given enough priority within an offense. If you run every play for Zaza, even he might drop 20. A much smaller percentage of NBA players can drop 20 efficiently without hurting their team. Marvin (and for that matter Smoove too, probably) does not fall into that category. The difference is that if every play was run for Smoove, he would use more than half of those to find easy looks for his teammates, while Marvin would spend all of those tripping over his own shoelaces.
In the not too distant past, the Hawks have had several players — Shareef, Big Dog, Antoine Walker — who all fell into the category of inefficient players who scored a lot of points thanks to being featured, and yet didn’t win games for this team. And all of them were head and shoulders better than Marvin.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
3:18 pm
Sorry bout that Section 303 got distracted..
Without Joe Johnson fully healthy out there on the floor. Hawks fail against above .500 winning teams 80% of the time with Josh, AL, and Marvin on the floor in the 4th quarter(crunch time).. Time to plug the plug on the 3 stooges..
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
3:18 pm
“I’m not a Marvin supporter nor basher. But I think it’s complete BS for people to still be talking about what he supposedly didn’t do last night”
I don’t think the topic of discussion would be centered on Marvin’s shortcomings if his grandma wasn’t here trying to convince everyone that he is the next Nique.
Samuel
December 17th, 2010
3:21 pm
Ramon,
Mike Fratello’s career winning percentage is .547 (reg season) and .323 (playoffs). I don’t understand the facination.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
3:22 pm
Samuel, are you on drugs? How do you say Avery is in next to last place with the same talent as the Hawks? The Hawks have gone to the playoffs the last 3 seasons. The New Jersey Nets are coming off a season where they had one of the three worst records in the entire league (I think they had the worst). The Hawks have three all stars on the team, and the 6th man of the year. Only thing the Nets have is Lopez. Del Harris really isn’t that much better than Bibby now.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
3:22 pm
Amen Najeh.
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
3:23 pm
@ Najeh . . one thing about ISO-Joe though . . is that you knew who was going to have the ball, and whose job it was to make a play. And when he passed the ball, the guy he passes it to would be wide open for an open jumper.
With Drew’s offense, there is no designated “go to guy”. Some of you like that. But it tends to lead to an increased amount of turnovers due to non-ball handlers trying to make plays for others.
So until the team takes care of the ball better, look for Drew to go right back to ISO-Joe to close out games when a game is tight.
Drew’s offense works . . but we can’t have anybody and everybody handling the ball at the end of games.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
3:24 pm
Samuel, Fratello was going against the Celtics and the Pistons in their best days (both teams who would utterly destroy ANY of the teams in the league now).
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
3:26 pm
Anybody who watched Fratello’s Hawks in the late 80’s would try to defend his coaching. We were young, athletic, up-an-coming, but like today’s Hawks we fell short b/c our roster had young guns and not HOF veterans.
Same then as now. Avery is not the answer. I can’t believe he and Sam Mitchell can’t get the Nets more fired up than they are. They do have some awesome talent on their roster.
Coaching isn’t the answer/problem – the players are in how often they give 100% effort for 48 minutes according to the coaches game plan.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
3:27 pm
Over past 6.2 season the Hawks guard play especially on offensive have covered a multitude of offensive faults concerning the “3 stooges”(JOSH,AL,AND MARVIN). But with the goto guy down, he can’t cover for them, alas they are being expose for who they really are not very good. Try 8th or 9th seed? Maybe? Hurry back JJ…! Look at how they fail in 4th quarters time and again against the elites. They cant hide anymore.. Thats why they stink it up so bad in the playoffs. Weakness are exposed!!! WE WONT EVEN TALK ABOUT THEIR CLASSIC DEFENSIVE LAPSES IN CRITICAL SITUATIONS….
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
3:27 pm
Fratello lost to the 2-3 top teams in the East then, just as we lose to them now? How is all of this news Hawks fans?
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
3:29 pm
meant time to “pull the plug on the “3 stooges”
Samuel
December 17th, 2010
3:35 pm
Ramon,
That’s easy to say since we will never know. They were the elite of their time. The Lakers, Celtics and Spurs are of ours. I doubt they would destroy either of these teams.
JoJo the Godfather
December 17th, 2010
3:35 pm
slimjr…two of the three stooges have improved their games every year they’ve been in the league…why pull the plug on two guys that have yet to max out their abilities?
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
3:38 pm
The focus is ALWAYS on Marvin.
Just because his “grandma” (lol) is here hyping him up, don’t act like that guy doesn’t stay under nuclear attack on a 24 hour basis.
Sautee
December 17th, 2010
3:42 pm
Samuel,
about this: “In case you haven’t noticed, Avery Johnson is in next to last place with about the same talent level as the Hawks.”
Are you saying LD has done a better job than Avery?
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
3:45 pm
How much would Josh whine if he had to deal with the hand checking and physical D of days gone by? Face it, teams today are soft. I’d take the C’s, Lakers and Pistons of old over today. We may have more flashy talent these days, but those teams played hard nosed, real intense basketball. Ask Jordan when he’d rather play? Think of what he’d do w/o the Jordan Rules?
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
3:47 pm
@JoJo the Godfather
Because I suspect they have peaked last year and won 53 games in spite now we know Joe J not being fully healthy..Billy Knight Jr(RICK SUND), if he had backbone would start shopping the “3 stooges” in their prime which is now!!! Promise it wont get any better with these busters…
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
3:47 pm
Samuel, sorry, but if any of those teams played the leagues best today, with the rules of today, those teams would score over 120 easily. The teams in the league now, aren’t as deep as they used to be. And the defense now is a lot worse than what it use to be.
Fundamentals, how many times did the Phil Jackson Lakers not give 100% of energy every night when Shaq and Kobe were younger? Samaki Walker wouldn’t even start on this Hawks team. Teams that are constantly picking at the bottom of the draft, continue to have players come in and contribute. That had nothing to do with adjustments and coaching? So what was the difference between the Lakers before Phil Jackson came, and when Rambis was the coach? Or what was the difference between Van Gundy coaching the Heat and Pat Riley? You can have the best weapons in the league. But if you don’t have the right general to lead it all, it won’t mean much.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
3:48 pm
The Nets have the talent, but not the will to win. The coaches haven’t been able to change the culture. Thus they’ve failed. LD came into a good situation. All things aren’t equal to make those claims.
Rod from College Park
December 17th, 2010
3:50 pm
northcyde,
“I’m not a Marvin supporter nor basher. But I think it’s complete BS for people to still be talking about what he supposedly didn’t do last night”
Who cares what you think. If you can list some information that was posted about Marvin’s shortcomings last night that are not true then have at it. He had a great offensive game, his defensive was nothing to write home about. He is subject to be criticized when he has a good game just like Joe, Josh, Bibby, and Horford do when they have great games. Sometimes I think you think that everything you post is the gospel. You need to get over yourself. Most of the regular posters here all make valid points. All you Marvin jock sniffers need to get real. The guy had a great game last night offensively. Whoopdyfreaking doo. If he can have one great game, and no one can still find fault in his game, then we should never say anything bad about Horford, Josh and Joe, because they have great games the majority of the time. Get over yourself.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
3:50 pm
Hawks will win tonight. We usually win games I go to, plus the only other time I’ve seen us play CHA, we won
Hawks win – don’t worry
LET DAMIEN PLAY
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
3:52 pm
*times
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
3:53 pm
Fundementals, I actually think Josh would’ve been better playing in an era like that. Because he would’ve came in the league on a team full of veterans (before the expansions) and would’ve gotten used to that in training camp. Listen to Barkley and others talk about their rookie seasons in the league. Back then just about every team had an all star caliber player (even the lottery teams) and grizzled veterans.
JoJo the Godfather
December 17th, 2010
3:53 pm
Sautee…My opinion is that LD has done a better job with the Hawks than Avery has with the Nets…Avery went in with no pressure, had free agents & draft picks added to his team, and has not changed that team’s identity at all…LD was, and still is, highly scrutinized by the media and fans alike, and yet he’s still managed to keep the Hawks in the playoff picture, implement new schemes on both sides of the ball, and appears to have the buy-in of all his players.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
3:54 pm
Amen, Rod from CP
It does seem like Northcyde thinks his posts are the Gospel.
Marvin disappeared in that 2nd qtr. I don’t understand why we didn’t go back to posting him up on Ray in the 3rd when the C’s were red hot.
I mean, he IMMEDIATELY posted Ray up twice when the game started. This is also LD’s fault.
And if we are LOSING games, then what good is this BS 2 foul rule? It’d be another thing if we were winning and using the 2 foul rule, but we have been LOSING and using it.
STOP USING THIS BS 2 FOUL RULE. NO PLAYER EVER FOULS OUT ON THIS TEAM
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
3:54 pm
Ramon – I can see that, but a real test would be shipping Phil to Atlanta, Philly, New Jersey, Dallas, ect to see if they were the difference.
I think it had alot to do with the players coming together and playing hard. Who can’t win with Kobe & Shaq in their prime? How bout Jordan & Pippen? Wade/Shaq? That’s just not fair. Send Riley, Doc or Jackson to Atlanta in their prime of coaching & we’d have the same headaches. It ain’t all on LD.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
3:56 pm
@JeJe
Dude good luck down there tonight.Stay safe! I will have remote in hand cause that Hawks game will have me switching to view the NEW YORK KNICKS and MIAMI game tonight in HIGH DEF on the BIG FLAT SCREEN!!!! YEAHA,,,,
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
3:59 pm
Fundamentals, who can’t win with them guys in their prime? Doug Collins, S. Van Gundy, Flip Saunders couldn’t win with KG and an All Star cast in Minnesota (or Detroit). Also who was the coach of the Lakers before Riley? He didn’t win with the same roster (except for Worthy). Doc won without much talent in Orlando before Boston, and also did goto the playoffs in Boston before KG came. Remember Phil coached 2 seasons with just Kobe and no one else (unless you count Smush Parker and Kwame as all stars) and went to the playoffs both seasons in a hard western conference.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:00 pm
Ramon,
My wife points that out every year. Josh is so far behind in terms of maturity b/c he’s been babied at the prep level and has been a “star” in Atlanta since coming in. He’s never really had real veteran leadership to mold him and push him. He thinks he’s an All Star, but honestly hasn’t got a clue what that means. Now with fan voting, what does it really mean? NOTHING! What matters is your performance in the playoffs, now let’s give Marvin’s Grandma a few minutes to bash Joe Johnson.
My point is those guys were tougher, meaner and thus more professional to stay alive. Todays rules make it easier, things are less physical and the game has changed to promote highlights instead of winning basketball.
JoJo the Godfather
December 17th, 2010
4:00 pm
@slimjr
you’re saying you think the team has peaked at 53 wins last season…i disagree, but that’s a reasonable thought and i can’t fault anyone for their opinion…i thought you were saying that Josh & Al had peaked…to me, that’s 3 to 5 years from happening…when these young men reach 27-29 years old, they’ll be in their prime (assuming they stay healthy).
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
4:01 pm
Candice Parker would eat Marvins lunch and dinner!!!
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:03 pm
The Bulls would’ve won without a coach – give me a break.
Lakers – almost the same for me again.
Flip – had no one but KG in MN and caught Detroit in severe decline.
Kobe is well, Kobe, not Joe Johnson
Doc was almost fired before the big 3 saved his coaching career.
Orlando has been just as good as Doc’s teams since Van Gundy arrived there.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
4:04 pm
27-29,25-26. It dont matter with the 3 stooges. Shop them now.While we still have fighting chance..Yes the team peaked at 53 wins.its down hill from there….
RICK SUND=BILLY KNIGHT Jr
SteveW
December 17th, 2010
4:05 pm
I say start ZaZa
Al
Marvin
Wilkens
Bibby
Bring Josh and Jeff off the bench – you talk about energy! And I think it wakes ZaZa up, and he becomes the man again like we need him to be.
Josh would win 3 consecutive SMOY IMHO.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:07 pm
Josh doesn’t have the character of Jamal to put his ego aside.
I think ZaZa’s days of being the man dissappeared with the head butt.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
4:07 pm
Fundementals, really if you look at it, in the last three seasons, Josh has played better than anyone on the team in the playoffs (including Joe and Al). So if its judged by the playoffs, wouldn’t Josh’s numbers in the playoffs testify that he’s more of what’s right with the team than what’s wrong?
Sund and Woody would just try to add veterans and that’s it. But the Hawks don’t need veterans, they need CHAMPIONS. Maggette is a veteran, and I wouldn’t want to look at him as a leader.
Rod from College Park
December 17th, 2010
4:08 pm
“The focus is ALWAYS on Marvin.
Just because his “grandma” (lol) is here hyping him up, don’t act like that guy doesn’t stay under nuclear attack on a 24 hour basis.”
As is should be. He is the only guy on our team that is consistently inconsistent. Who else should stay under attack? Who else shows up 2 out of every 10 games? Was Marvin the reason we beat the Celtics 4 times last year? Marvin made more money that Horford last year so should we bash Horford for averaging 14.6ppg, and 9rpg in 35 min in the playoffs. Should we bash Josh for averaging 14.1 ppg and 9 rpg in the playoffs? Or should we bash a guy making 7 to 8 mill per, who was a number 2 draft pick, who was expected to step up that year, who averaged 8.4ppg and 5.7 rpg in 31 mpg. Sorry for us being so biased and calling out the worst guy night in and night out. Maybe you need the blog to go back to 3 years ago when everybody was bashing Josh, and praising Marvin except me.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
4:09 pm
Fundementals, Doc didn’t have D12, Lewis, Carter, or Nelson, remember. Anyone would’ve won with Chicago? At the time, MJ was just a ball hog who couldn’t be lead according to the media.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
4:12 pm
Josh major hurdle to improving his game and becoming notice around the league as a perennial all star is his attitude. I preach that to my daughter all the time. Your attitude will determine your altitude. That said, this guy needs an ounce of humility!!! He is no way as good as he thinks he is! That’s a fact!!
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
4:14 pm
Ha slimjr I regret missing my boy Amar’e’s big game tonight, but it’s time to see the Hawks win. I will be sure to be yelling at Marvin if he is asleep again. Hope Damien gets major mins tonight
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
4:18 pm
@JeJe
Hey Tell Marvin Billy should have drafted Candice over him!! HAHAHA
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:25 pm
Ramon, I’ll agree Josh has improved each and every year, but as slimjr just pointed out – his attitude at times decides his altitude. He’s added better handles and a decent shot to his game. Now he needs to add savy veteran leadership and quit with the childish whining and outbursts. If he could he’s definitely a perennial All Star.
That’s the key to me, not so much LD or a coach being the problem/solution. We need our existing talent to rise up and take teh accountability problem away from the coach. Once Jordan learned to lead, not ball hog, they were unstoppable. We need Joe, Al & Josh to get that mentality.
We’re a luxury tax player or two away from being awesome for 4-6 years! So close, yet so far, far away.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:27 pm
Did anyone catch Shelden getting abused last night after our game? Guess the landlord still tries to manage Baltic instead of Boardwalk.
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
4:33 pm
LOL @ Jeje and Rod . . . 82% of the time, both of you guys do nothing but hate on people. 200% of the time, Marvin is hated on.
So forgive me for calling BS on people hating on Marvin last night, when Smith and Horford haven’t scored 20 points combined in 2 games vs Boston.
Anybody who can’t give Marvin major props for keeping us in that game last night, but instead choose to nit pick on what he didn’t do, is simply a hater.
Now sing that in the choir, since it’s GOSPEL.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
4:39 pm
Lol Northcyde,
Final score sure was in the 80s last night! Got that one right on the ball! If Marvin can play with last night’s energy 80% of the time I will be satisfied.
But he won’t
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
4:42 pm
Since all I do is hate on people:
LD’s 2 foul rule is BS
Bibby is unathletic
ZaZa only shows up vs. Boston
Joe chokes in the playoffs
Josh is still immature
Al doesn’t drive the lane enough
Mo is useless
Jamal doesn’t play defense
Bibby is out of shape
Sund only goes after players from his from Sonics teams
Collins can’t rebound
Marvin doesn’t want to be an allstar
Teague has no jumpshot
Etan – who?
Powell only shoots
JC2 pisses his pants every time he plays
The Price is Wrong, northcyde
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
4:42 pm
Damn mentioned Bib twice
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:43 pm
Marvin has actually had a pretty good month despite 1-2 lackluster efforts. The real question is can he maintain night in and night out? Can he find his niche when Joe/Jamal return? If not, somebody’s got to go in Feb. It’s been too long. We can’t go “core” when things are really happening unless the “core” is truly showing that they can get it done.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:44 pm
Drop the Bib is out of shape JeJe and you’ve got it. He’s actually looking OK this year.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:46 pm
Oh, keep the unathletic. Did you see the C’s reaction when Bibby got the uncontested layup? I though Garnett was going to kill some folks. Laughed out loud a few times.
Marvin’s block & Teague’s highlights were some of the best Hawks Highlights for the year. Hater or not, you’d have to approve.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
4:49 pm
Fundamentals,
let’s see Bibby get in the lane and hit floaters like Teague or Tony Parker do and I will recant my statement
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
4:49 pm
Fundamentals, I actually believe Shaq was one of those players.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
4:51 pm
Sund, HAS to feel dumb right now though. Sund wouldn’t commit to giving Shaq a chance to start over Horford if he EARNED it. Yet now here we are almost midway through the season, and Horford isn’t playing center anyway, instead he’s playing SF. How many open jumpers would Joe and Bibby (and Al) received from Shaq on the low post, with Josh slashing the lanes. Marvin is still not on the court in crunch time situations.
kwooden1
December 17th, 2010
4:52 pm
I only saw the 4th quarter of last nights game, and what I saw was a team that knew what they wanted to do to finish a game against a team that was figuring out what to do. Jeff started turning the ball over when he got a little indecisive about what he wanted to do. The Celtics went immediately to pick and roll or size advantage match-ups. The Hawks need to
learn how to execute their offensive under pressure. I liked how they got to the free-throw line late, defensively they couldn’t get stops.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:53 pm
We’ll see how Shaq helps Boston. I just don’t think he would act the same here. He hurt CLE and PHO with his antics. We don’t have the strong players BOS has to keep him in check. His ego and selfishness would’ve run wild, plus it could’ve infected our team. We need real young, hungry talent, but that’s just MHO.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
4:54 pm
LOL @ ramon.
Sund passing on Shaq so he can start Collins who averages like 0, 1, and 0 0 0 0 0
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
4:55 pm
Ramon 4:51 – definitely have to cosign that, even though I hate Shaq.
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
4:55 pm
Enter your comments here
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
4:56 pm
Oh, keep the unathletic. Did you see the C’s reaction when Bibby got the uncontested layup? I though Garnett was going to kill some folks. Laughed out loud a few times.”
^Did you see the Knicks game 2 nights ago? As SOON as the Knicks got the ball, Felton was flying to the other hoop. I was praying Teague would do that all day and he seemed to do it, but Bibby was too damn slow. We did not push the tempo
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
4:58 pm
smh . . mentioned Bibby twice.
That’s pure hate . . lol.
Rod from College Park
December 17th, 2010
5:05 pm
northcyde,
“Anybody who can’t give Marvin major props for keeping us in that game last night, but instead choose to nit pick on what he didn’t do, is simply a hater.”
So by your standards everyone who post here are haters. Josh, Joe and Horford get bashed all the time by numerous posters, and they earn their money almost every night. If you read my post, I gave him credit for having a great offensive game. I also saw where Jeje gave him credit as well. I said his defense was nothing to write home about. If you watched the game, do you not remember Ray allen lighting us up in the 3rd quarter? Whose man was he? If I make statement that is true, whether you agree or not, how is it hating? Looks like you need a hip hop 101 class. If I say, I respect Puff Daddy as a business man, but the last couple of albums he has put out are not good. Am I hating? What about, I dislike Marvin as a basketball player, but he played well offensively last night. Is that hating? when you can show me something I have said that is not true, then you can call me a hater. Get over yourself. the 82% is untrue as well, ask Sautee.
Rod from College Park
December 17th, 2010
5:07 pm
Ramon,
“Sund, HAS to feel dumb right now though. Sund wouldn’t commit to giving Shaq a chance to start over Horford if he EARNED it. Yet now here we are almost midway through the season, and Horford isn’t playing center anyway, instead he’s playing SF. How many open jumpers would Joe and Bibby (and Al) received from Shaq on the low post, with Josh slashing the lanes. Marvin is still not on the court in crunch time situations.”
We agree again Ramon. It must be a full moon.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
5:07 pm
Rod from CP : Blogger of the Year
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
5:08 pm
And Ray did look like Jesus Shuttltesworth in that 3rd quarter.
Ray played under Sund. Any chance Sund trades for him? It seems our best moves are made involving former Supersonics (Damien & Flip), so maybe something is in store!
JoJo the Godfather
December 17th, 2010
5:09 pm
My guess is we see the same starting lineup tonight:
Bibby / Augustine
Williams / Jackson
Smith / Wallace
Horford / Diaw
Collins / Mohammad
Containing Tyrus Thomas off the bench will be key.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
5:24 pm
“Ray played under Sund. Any chance Sund trades for him? It seems our best moves are made involving former Supersonics (Damien & Flip)”
I’d bet on Saer Sene being a Hawk before the Celtics trade Ray Allen here.
Grandad
December 17th, 2010
5:33 pm
Good afternoon fellas and ladies, I’ve been away for a few days and
have not kept up with the blog. Also, I’ve missed several games but finally was able to see the celts game.
My perception;
The Hawks are @ a cross|roads.
What needs to happen + some intuitive observations:
(1) Rick Sund – cannot sit on his ass.
A good GM will try to give LD the resources he needs to succeeed.
Much like the new AD @ UGA is trying to assist Mark Richt overcome
his current problems. Any program (Pro or amateur) must have a
culture of winning [championships (Celtics, Lakers)]
(2) This team is a mess as currently constructed.
per drmaryb “a hot mess”. It’s time to break up the core and
trade Joe, Josh or both [including JC2] in order to acquire
a real [5] and a legitimate pg.
(3) LD is a good [although inexperienced] HC. He’s learning on
the job. *substitution patterns et al. *Al is his horse and he
needs to ride him.
(4) Marv, Zaza, Powell, Teaguer, Wilkins, Collins, =
a pretty darn solid bench. Problem is – we need four starters
to go with *Al & Jamal.
*[alluding to my previous mention of trading Josh, Joe and JC2]
(5) The team shows preparation, adjustments, offensive ingenuity,
defensive rationale, and overall just looks like a professional
basketball team this year. However, there is a dearth of talent,
a lack of balance, therefore the bumpy ride.
*When I say break ‘em up, I do not mean start over.
*If you look @ the Celts, they have built with veterans,
not draft picks; *case in point- Ray Allen – 74 yrs old,
3rd qtr, hasn’t scored, comes in and sticks 12 points
in a qtr = game over.
!~! Rick Sund once traded for Ray Allen !~!
Merry Christmas & Go Hawks !
kwooden1
December 17th, 2010
5:40 pm
JoJo, that looks like the line-up to me also, even if Jamal is healthy. It’s a good line up, as long as Bibby plays decent defense. If he struggles Jeff can come in. Thomas will be problem off of the bench so I hope Damien is ready. Thomas will be a difficult matchup, so Powell might have to play him.
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 17th, 2010
5:45 pm
@ slimjr
CANDACE PARKER CAN EAT MY DINNER ANYTIME SHE WANTS TO..UH HUH !!
Sautee
December 17th, 2010
5:50 pm
Grandad,
Welcome back!
Good points, particularly point #5. Lack of balance indeed.
One disagreement I have with your post…….. I truly think that Rick Sund is Mike Gearon Jr.’s hand puppet. Unless Mikey wants to break up the core, it ain’t happnin’ as they say up here in the hills.
And I’m deathly afraid that Mikey LOVES what we have.
And if you have owners who are convinced that THIS is the right track………..oops.
Grandad
December 17th, 2010
5:57 pm
Sautee, you’re right on.
I have a feeling…that’s why Marv continues to start…regardless.
*Note – I’m not anti Marv.
Having been away, has the rumor been on this board about OJ Mayo
coming to the ATL ?
J from the A
December 17th, 2010
6:05 pm
OJ, Thabeet, and Conley
for
Mo, JC1, Teague, and 1st round pick?
That trade? I doubt it is true, and even if it was, should the Hawks go for it?
Grandad
December 17th, 2010
6:12 pm
J from the A
Thanks;
I don’t think I would either.
J from the A
December 17th, 2010
6:16 pm
There was also another rumor –Conley
I think the Grizz I realizing they need to be in semi-rebuilding mode, and are wanting to shed some salary for expirings and picks … but I doubt these exact rumors have any truth. OJ has a lot of upside, and Thabeet’s contract is not that bad (at least not so bad that a team should be looking to package a solid, young player with Thabeet just to move Thabeet).
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
6:19 pm
Well, that was quick. MC tweets that Joe is playing tonight.
J from the A
December 17th, 2010
6:20 pm
whoa? What’s wrong with the training staff?
J from the A
December 17th, 2010
6:21 pm
There is no way they should be pushing Joe to come back so quickly …
Joe is not going to admit it is still hurting …
Sautee
December 17th, 2010
6:30 pm
Well there goes any minutes JC2 would have played.
Sautee
December 17th, 2010
6:35 pm
Amazing recovery. I cannot imagine that the medical staff would allow him to play if he could jeopardize his condition.
Now the question is, what will the chemistry be like?
drmaryb (*_*)
December 17th, 2010
6:45 pm
HoopsHype Rumors:
» Update: 03:16 PM ET
Now that Portland is struggling, there’s no way to hide the fact that Roy and Miller aren’t a good fit in the backcourt together. Sources already have told CBSSports.com that Blazers officials are considering going young and moving some of their older pieces — such as Miller, Marcus Camby and Joel Przybilla. Miller, with a fully non-guaranteed $7.8 million in 2011-12, has off-the-charts trade value — especially for a contender in need of a steadying force at point guard. CBSSports.com

Portland Trail Blazers, Trade, Andre Miller, Joel Przybilla, Marcus Camby | share 
Sources continue to tell me that Orlando, which is concerned about not measuring up to Boston and Miami in the East, would be the perfect fit for Miller. The Magic are not going to accept carrying a $94 million payroll into the playoffs, only to lose in the conference semifinals — which seems to be their fate as currently constructed. Rashard Lewis’ impact continues to diminish, Vince Carter is little more than a jump-shooter, and Jameer Nelson is too inconsistent to rely on as the floor general of a championship-contending team. CBSSports.com
________________________________________
Here’s another one: MJ blasted the team after that blowout lost to Boston.
Word on The Street is MJ gauging 15-20 teams interest in:
Stephen Jackson
Gerald Wallace
But, Thomas appears untouchable (whoever that is). So far,
Chicago and Detroit seems interested in what MJ has to say. Thing is MJ is asking for a lot in return.
Oh yeah! Portland is shopping:
Andre Miller. (The Magic are interested)
Marcus Camby
Joel Prsyzbilla
They want to start their youth movement now, Roy and Miller are not working oput in the back court. Both Roy’s knees are fully insured financially. His problem is he has no cartilage. They need a new Knee doctor or what?
ryan
December 17th, 2010
6:52 pm
I hear the Bobcats are putting everyone on the block and the Hawks need a big man how about Gerald Wallace he is a beast and with some of players hurt we need make a move .
drmaryb (*_*)
December 17th, 2010
6:53 pm
Tough Guy!
I told yall Joe came back in Phoenix from the fractured orbital and played that play off series with the face mask. I knew he would return in less than four weeks, I figured three weeks though, not in two weeks!
Too bad for all the Joe Haters! Ha Ha! Section 303 prolly pissed now!
bigdave
December 17th, 2010
7:02 pm
Joe..? wow..
ryan
December 17th, 2010
7:02 pm
drmaryb (*_*) do you see the Hawks making a trade with players being out .
Blast
December 17th, 2010
7:02 pm
Can’t believe Joe is playing tonight!
Iron Man Joe!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 17th, 2010
7:03 pm
Joe is a tough guy, no doubt — say what you want about his game, but he has always been durable despite Woody overworking him pretty much the entire time he was here. I just hope he’s not rushing back too early. The last thing the Hawks need is for him to aggravate this injury and miss a larger portion of the season.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 17th, 2010
7:03 pm
MC I hope you feeling better.
bigdave
December 17th, 2010
7:04 pm
and he’s rocking the sleeve.. w/ elbow pad..
looks like he lost some weight..
Gator
December 17th, 2010
7:04 pm
Nothing to gained by playing JJ tonight
Blast
December 17th, 2010
7:12 pm
Joe has been shooting for about a week, now. I doubt he would play if he was still hurt.
J from the A
December 17th, 2010
7:33 pm
I’ve been saying for two weeks now that Camby was on the market … now that Miller is, too, maybe the Hawks should try to make a move.
If Portland wants a couple of expiring and picks, the Hawks have ‘em. Of course, we would have to give up JC1, but depending on the deal, it may very well be worth it.
Wabe
December 17th, 2010
9:48 pm
Get rid of F’N Mo Evans already…
Samuel
December 17th, 2010
9:52 pm
Sautee,
That’s a “no brainer” look at their records.
Mantis
December 17th, 2010
10:15 pm
After not playing since mid-november, Larry Drew only let Jordan in for 7 minutes for the entire game, and then gets surprised when he doesn’t play well against the one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference? This is what I am talking about. Jordan would have been a much better force against the Celtics in this game had he been allowed some minutes in the previous games against lesser opponents. This is typically how good coaches develop their rookies. But Larry Drew is not a proactive coach. He is completely reactionary. I’m surprised that he actually let Jeff Teague stay in long enough to score his points.
I love my Hawks. But this season is not looking good. This is December. They should be getting into a strong rhythm by now.
slimjr
December 18th, 2010
12:05 am
YEAH!!! Joe Is back to help the 3 Stooges in the 4th quarter..Good thing he showed up tonight or it would of been an ugly loss…Turns out it was an ugly win against a very bad team!!! Its a win but play like this gets this team beat down in the first round or second if they survive long enough…..Time to pull the plug on the 3 stooges asap! This experiment ain’t working…Brutal to watch them busters in the fourth quarter…. yawn….
RICK SUND= BILLY KNIGHT Jr
Ken Strickland
December 18th, 2010
10:28 am
It’s one thing being nothing more than DELUSIONAL ARM CHAIR GM’s who believe you’re far more capable than either RSund or BKnight. But now some of you have out done yourselves by thinking you’re better qualified than JJ’s doctors in determining his readiness to play. WOW!
All surgeries aren’t the same, and obviously they didn’t have to cut any muscle tissue, or anything that would limit his use of the elbow. Therefore, it wasn’t his elbow that needed protecting, but the incisison itself, which we all saw, wasn’t a problem.
If he can play with the pain and discomfort he had before having surgery, why couldn’t he play if he’s pain free, with only the discomfort of the protective bandages to deal with? While a lot of you don’t feel JJ’s a leader because of his demeanor, I doubt if any of his teammates share your opinion of him as a leader.
The Hawks don’t have a dominant DEF player and rebounder that can carry the team, like DHoward, or dominant offensive players like DWade, Lebron, Kobe, CPaul etc. Therefore, they have to rely almost exclusively on the TOTAL TEAM APPROACH to be consistently effective.
If we are to get to the next level, we need an upgrade in talent and/or production from the PG position, not Center. Teague has been productive in back to back gms, which is very encouraging. Hopefully, this will be a sign of things to come. Just like losing JJ prompted us to sign DWilkins, which was a needed upgrade, losing Jamal might have caused Teague to finally turn the corner. We’re definitely going to need the talents and production of JJ, JTeague and DWilkins to successfully get us through the next wk or so.
The Hawks, under LDrew, are still a work in progress, and unlike some, I intend to be there for the long haul offering my support, rather than whining, bashing, and b!tching, whether we win or lose.
slimjr
December 18th, 2010
6:51 pm
“NEWSFLASH” The Hawks have needed an all star PG since Mookie Blaylock retired more than 10 darn YEARs AGO! That “GENIUS” BK could have address that 5 years ago if he had drafted future HOF Derron William instead of that knuckle dragging buster MW…Talk about upgrading your franchise for years to come!!! Naw this is the HAWKS- Mediocrity for 45 years!!!!. Marvin William at the 3 will never make you a CONTENDER……..
RICK SUND+BILLY KNIGHT= MEDIOCRITY for good!