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Atlanta Hawks: Celtics 102, Hawks 90

12:31 am December 17, 2010, by Michael Cunningham

Boston–Here’s the thing: The results don’t show context. They don’t note injuries or bad luck or nice efforts or anything like that. They only show Ws and Ls and for the Hawks they show that they can’t beat the better teams on their schedule.

  • You know the list: Phoenix, Orlando, Utah, Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and now Boston. “We have got to have these games,” Marvin said. “It’s not really early in the season anymore. We’ve got to do a better job closing these games out.”
  • The truth is the Hawks went to Boston and had a chance to win without J.J. and Jamal. They’ve never been completely healthy for any of their games against the best teams.
  • “What you have got to understand is we don’t have all our weapons,” Smoove said. I don’t think you can really measure where we are at as a team like those teams that you are naming unless we have all our horses running.”
  • I know that sounds like too much excuse making for fans, and I get that. But you know what? Smoove makes a fair point.
  • Yet it’s also true is that the Celtics turned them back without Rondo and three centers: Shaq, J. O’Neal and Perkins. Guard Delonte West was out, too, and Von Wafer lasted two minutes before leaving the game.
  • The Celtics are deeper and better, which might be expected given their payroll and pedigree but, again, the standings don’t care about stuff like that.
  • “They are an experienced team,” Al said. “They just know how to play.”
  • “They made plays and they tried to exploit our mismatches all night,” Marvin said. “They were tough.”
  • As long as Rick Sund sticks with the “core” philosophy, the Hawks are going to have to figure it out. Their challenge is to see if through experience, and despite their shortcomings, they can reach that level. Then maybe they win tight games against good opponents and others will be talking about how they know how to play and how they exploit mismatches.
  • “I am going to maintain my patience,” L.D. said. “The encouraging thing is we can look at a game against Miami on the road, San Antonio on the road, even Orlando the first time on the road, and now here we are against Boston on the road we are right there in the fourth quarter. We just can’t get over the hump. I am glad that we are right there but we’ve got to mentally learn how to get over the hump.”
  • Once again, you can point to a few missed chances cost the Hawks at winning time.
  • The Hawks trailed 77-75. Ray Allen steals the ball from Josh Powell, but Marvin hustles back to block Allen’s shot and start a Hawks fastbreak. But then Teague throws the ball away and, on Boston’s next possession, no one blocks out Glen Davis and he puts back a miss.
  • On Atlanta’s next possession, Nate Robinson ties up Teague and forces a jump ball. The Celtics controlled the tip, and then Robinson set up Pierce for a 3. After Marvin misses, Erden somehow finds himself free for a baby hook in the lane that made it 84-75.
  • Teague had three of Atlanta’s six fourth-quarter turnovers, marring what was otherwise a standout effort. Maybe it will mean his return to the rotation, as long as L.D. is willing to live with his mistakes.
  • “He came out that first half, really really aggressive on the floor,” Drew said. “That’s what he has to do every time he steps on the floor. That’s what I am looking for. I need that. He’s the only guy that has that speed and has that type quickness that can change the flow and tempo of the game. He did a great job again.”
  • Teague’s teammates were going wild as he was getting steals and dunks.
  • “Coaches told us to go out there and push the ball and be aggressive and play. Turnovers are going to happen but you just have to keep playing,” he said. “I just wanted to make an impact on the game. Me and Jordan at the beginning of the game, we had to make an impact, and hopefully get some stops on the defensive end and make some plays out there.”
  • Josh was out of sorts offensively. He didn’t have any touch around the rim. “I was in it on the defensive end, I just couldn’t help out offensively,” he said. “Good thing about it I have a chance to redeem myself tomorrow against Charlotte. I just can’t stop believing in myself. I think I got down on myself too early in the game because things weren’t falling.”
  • Josh had just two points in the first game against the C’s. This time he couldn’t finish in the post against Pierce.
  • “He didn’t have that explosiveness like he normally has around the basket,” Drew said. “That was very noticeable early in the game. I didn’t think we would totally dominate the matchup with Pierce, but I thought we would have a much larger advantage against Pierce with him using his size and strength and experience. He missed some easy shots. He rushed a few shots. He didn’t seem like he had that energy.
  • Al picked up his second foul with 4:25 left in the first quarter. He stayed on the bench the rest of the half and finished with eight points, 4 of 7 shooting, seven rebounds, 26 minutes and three fouls.
  • “That’s happened to him before and he has come back and bounced back in the second half,” L.D. said. “But he just never got into an Al Horford rhythm. But again, there are going be games where there are nights like this.”
  • Al had ice packs on both hands after the game. “I’m not going to make excuses about anything,” he said. “I hurt it against Indiana. My shooting has been like this for a couple games. It is really swollen so I have to make sure I ice it to keep it down. But it’s nothing serious.”
  • JC2 passed up an open shot early, the first indication that the rookie was off. He looked rushed while committing three unforced turnovers. “I hadn’t played since the last few minutes against Toronto,” he said. “I just wanted to get back in the flow but my timing was off. It was little mistakes I shouldn’t make regardless if you don’t play or not. That’s all on me. “
  • The Hawks didn’t let Robinson get on a roll this time (despite his 41 minutes) but Pierce hurt them as the point forward. “You could see [Robinson] was just out of rhythm with the ball,” Doc Rivers said. He was struggling with the ball and with his passing. So we just made Paul the point guard and it worked out.”
  • Powell played 4:19 of the fourth quarter and had all zeros across his stat line except for a turnover. Zaza had the same minutes in the final period and had a rebound and a steal.
  • Wilkins showed some life offensively while scoring scoring 10 points. He got four free-throw attempts through some crafty plays. He’s helping the Hawks.
  • At one point in the first half, the Celtics dropped off Mo to let him shoot a 3-pointer, and he looked like he didn’t want to do it. He finally halfheartedly chucked up a brick. It looks like his confidence is sagging.

Michael Cunningham

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257 comments Add your comment

slimjr

December 17th, 2010
4:18 pm

@JeJe

Hey Tell Marvin Billy should have drafted Candice over him!! HAHAHA

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
4:25 pm

Ramon, I’ll agree Josh has improved each and every year, but as slimjr just pointed out – his attitude at times decides his altitude. He’s added better handles and a decent shot to his game. Now he needs to add savy veteran leadership and quit with the childish whining and outbursts. If he could he’s definitely a perennial All Star.

That’s the key to me, not so much LD or a coach being the problem/solution. We need our existing talent to rise up and take teh accountability problem away from the coach. Once Jordan learned to lead, not ball hog, they were unstoppable. We need Joe, Al & Josh to get that mentality.

We’re a luxury tax player or two away from being awesome for 4-6 years! So close, yet so far, far away.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
4:27 pm

Did anyone catch Shelden getting abused last night after our game? Guess the landlord still tries to manage Baltic instead of Boardwalk.

northcyde

December 17th, 2010
4:33 pm

LOL @ Jeje and Rod . . . 82% of the time, both of you guys do nothing but hate on people. 200% of the time, Marvin is hated on.

So forgive me for calling BS on people hating on Marvin last night, when Smith and Horford haven’t scored 20 points combined in 2 games vs Boston.

Anybody who can’t give Marvin major props for keeping us in that game last night, but instead choose to nit pick on what he didn’t do, is simply a hater.

Now sing that in the choir, since it’s GOSPEL.

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
4:39 pm

Lol Northcyde,

Final score sure was in the 80s last night! Got that one right on the ball! If Marvin can play with last night’s energy 80% of the time I will be satisfied.

But he won’t

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
4:42 pm

Since all I do is hate on people:

LD’s 2 foul rule is BS
Bibby is unathletic
ZaZa only shows up vs. Boston
Joe chokes in the playoffs
Josh is still immature
Al doesn’t drive the lane enough
Mo is useless
Jamal doesn’t play defense
Bibby is out of shape
Sund only goes after players from his from Sonics teams
Collins can’t rebound
Marvin doesn’t want to be an allstar
Teague has no jumpshot
Etan – who?
Powell only shoots
JC2 pisses his pants every time he plays

The Price is Wrong, northcyde

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
4:42 pm

Damn mentioned Bib twice

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
4:43 pm

Marvin has actually had a pretty good month despite 1-2 lackluster efforts. The real question is can he maintain night in and night out? Can he find his niche when Joe/Jamal return? If not, somebody’s got to go in Feb. It’s been too long. We can’t go “core” when things are really happening unless the “core” is truly showing that they can get it done.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
4:44 pm

Drop the Bib is out of shape JeJe and you’ve got it. He’s actually looking OK this year.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
4:46 pm

Oh, keep the unathletic. Did you see the C’s reaction when Bibby got the uncontested layup? I though Garnett was going to kill some folks. Laughed out loud a few times.

Marvin’s block & Teague’s highlights were some of the best Hawks Highlights for the year. Hater or not, you’d have to approve.

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
4:49 pm

Fundamentals,

let’s see Bibby get in the lane and hit floaters like Teague or Tony Parker do and I will recant my statement

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
4:49 pm

Fundamentals, I actually believe Shaq was one of those players.

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
4:51 pm

Sund, HAS to feel dumb right now though. Sund wouldn’t commit to giving Shaq a chance to start over Horford if he EARNED it. Yet now here we are almost midway through the season, and Horford isn’t playing center anyway, instead he’s playing SF. How many open jumpers would Joe and Bibby (and Al) received from Shaq on the low post, with Josh slashing the lanes. Marvin is still not on the court in crunch time situations.

kwooden1

December 17th, 2010
4:52 pm

I only saw the 4th quarter of last nights game, and what I saw was a team that knew what they wanted to do to finish a game against a team that was figuring out what to do. Jeff started turning the ball over when he got a little indecisive about what he wanted to do. The Celtics went immediately to pick and roll or size advantage match-ups. The Hawks need to
learn how to execute their offensive under pressure. I liked how they got to the free-throw line late, defensively they couldn’t get stops.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
4:53 pm

We’ll see how Shaq helps Boston. I just don’t think he would act the same here. He hurt CLE and PHO with his antics. We don’t have the strong players BOS has to keep him in check. His ego and selfishness would’ve run wild, plus it could’ve infected our team. We need real young, hungry talent, but that’s just MHO.

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
4:54 pm

LOL @ ramon.

Sund passing on Shaq so he can start Collins who averages like 0, 1, and 0 0 0 0 0

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
4:55 pm

Ramon 4:51 – definitely have to cosign that, even though I hate Shaq.

northcyde

December 17th, 2010
4:55 pm

Enter your comments here

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
4:56 pm

Oh, keep the unathletic. Did you see the C’s reaction when Bibby got the uncontested layup? I though Garnett was going to kill some folks. Laughed out loud a few times.”

^Did you see the Knicks game 2 nights ago? As SOON as the Knicks got the ball, Felton was flying to the other hoop. I was praying Teague would do that all day and he seemed to do it, but Bibby was too damn slow. We did not push the tempo

northcyde

December 17th, 2010
4:58 pm

smh . . mentioned Bibby twice.

That’s pure hate . . lol.

Rod from College Park

December 17th, 2010
5:05 pm

northcyde,

“Anybody who can’t give Marvin major props for keeping us in that game last night, but instead choose to nit pick on what he didn’t do, is simply a hater.”

So by your standards everyone who post here are haters. Josh, Joe and Horford get bashed all the time by numerous posters, and they earn their money almost every night. If you read my post, I gave him credit for having a great offensive game. I also saw where Jeje gave him credit as well. I said his defense was nothing to write home about. If you watched the game, do you not remember Ray allen lighting us up in the 3rd quarter? Whose man was he? If I make statement that is true, whether you agree or not, how is it hating? Looks like you need a hip hop 101 class. If I say, I respect Puff Daddy as a business man, but the last couple of albums he has put out are not good. Am I hating? What about, I dislike Marvin as a basketball player, but he played well offensively last night. Is that hating? when you can show me something I have said that is not true, then you can call me a hater. Get over yourself. the 82% is untrue as well, ask Sautee.

Rod from College Park

December 17th, 2010
5:07 pm

Ramon,

“Sund, HAS to feel dumb right now though. Sund wouldn’t commit to giving Shaq a chance to start over Horford if he EARNED it. Yet now here we are almost midway through the season, and Horford isn’t playing center anyway, instead he’s playing SF. How many open jumpers would Joe and Bibby (and Al) received from Shaq on the low post, with Josh slashing the lanes. Marvin is still not on the court in crunch time situations.”

We agree again Ramon. It must be a full moon.

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
5:07 pm

Rod from CP : Blogger of the Year

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
5:08 pm

And Ray did look like Jesus Shuttltesworth in that 3rd quarter.

Ray played under Sund. Any chance Sund trades for him? It seems our best moves are made involving former Supersonics (Damien & Flip), so maybe something is in store!

JoJo the Godfather

December 17th, 2010
5:09 pm

My guess is we see the same starting lineup tonight:

Bibby / Augustine
Williams / Jackson
Smith / Wallace
Horford / Diaw
Collins / Mohammad

Containing Tyrus Thomas off the bench will be key.

Najeh Davenpoop

December 17th, 2010
5:24 pm

“Ray played under Sund. Any chance Sund trades for him? It seems our best moves are made involving former Supersonics (Damien & Flip)”

I’d bet on Saer Sene being a Hawk before the Celtics trade Ray Allen here.

Grandad

December 17th, 2010
5:33 pm

Good afternoon fellas and ladies, I’ve been away for a few days and
have not kept up with the blog. Also, I’ve missed several games but finally was able to see the celts game.

My perception;
The Hawks are @ a cross|roads.

What needs to happen + some intuitive observations:
(1) Rick Sund – cannot sit on his ass.
A good GM will try to give LD the resources he needs to succeeed.
Much like the new AD @ UGA is trying to assist Mark Richt overcome
his current problems. Any program (Pro or amateur) must have a
culture of winning [championships (Celtics, Lakers)]

(2) This team is a mess as currently constructed.
per drmaryb “a hot mess”. It’s time to break up the core and
trade Joe, Josh or both [including JC2] in order to acquire
a real [5] and a legitimate pg.

(3) LD is a good [although inexperienced] HC. He’s learning on
the job. *substitution patterns et al. *Al is his horse and he
needs to ride him.

(4) Marv, Zaza, Powell, Teaguer, Wilkins, Collins, =
a pretty darn solid bench. Problem is – we need four starters
to go with *Al & Jamal.
*[alluding to my previous mention of trading Josh, Joe and JC2]

(5) The team shows preparation, adjustments, offensive ingenuity,
defensive rationale, and overall just looks like a professional
basketball team this year. However, there is a dearth of talent,
a lack of balance, therefore the bumpy ride.

*When I say break ‘em up, I do not mean start over.

*If you look @ the Celts, they have built with veterans,
not draft picks; *case in point- Ray Allen – 74 yrs old,
3rd qtr, hasn’t scored, comes in and sticks 12 points
in a qtr = game over.
!~! Rick Sund once traded for Ray Allen !~!

Merry Christmas & Go Hawks !

kwooden1

December 17th, 2010
5:40 pm

JoJo, that looks like the line-up to me also, even if Jamal is healthy. It’s a good line up, as long as Bibby plays decent defense. If he struggles Jeff can come in. Thomas will be problem off of the bench so I hope Damien is ready. Thomas will be a difficult matchup, so Powell might have to play him.

ATL RAISED INDY LIVING

December 17th, 2010
5:45 pm

@ slimjr

CANDACE PARKER CAN EAT MY DINNER ANYTIME SHE WANTS TO..UH HUH !!

Sautee

December 17th, 2010
5:50 pm

Grandad,

Welcome back!

Good points, particularly point #5. Lack of balance indeed.

One disagreement I have with your post…….. I truly think that Rick Sund is Mike Gearon Jr.’s hand puppet. Unless Mikey wants to break up the core, it ain’t happnin’ as they say up here in the hills.

And I’m deathly afraid that Mikey LOVES what we have.

And if you have owners who are convinced that THIS is the right track………..oops.

Grandad

December 17th, 2010
5:57 pm

Sautee, you’re right on.
I have a feeling…that’s why Marv continues to start…regardless.
*Note – I’m not anti Marv.

Having been away, has the rumor been on this board about OJ Mayo
coming to the ATL ?

J from the A

December 17th, 2010
6:05 pm

OJ, Thabeet, and Conley
for
Mo, JC1, Teague, and 1st round pick?

That trade? I doubt it is true, and even if it was, should the Hawks go for it?

Grandad

December 17th, 2010
6:12 pm

J from the A

Thanks;
I don’t think I would either.

J from the A

December 17th, 2010
6:16 pm

There was also another rumor –Conley

I think the Grizz I realizing they need to be in semi-rebuilding mode, and are wanting to shed some salary for expirings and picks … but I doubt these exact rumors have any truth. OJ has a lot of upside, and Thabeet’s contract is not that bad (at least not so bad that a team should be looking to package a solid, young player with Thabeet just to move Thabeet).

Najeh Davenpoop

December 17th, 2010
6:19 pm

Well, that was quick. MC tweets that Joe is playing tonight.

J from the A

December 17th, 2010
6:20 pm

whoa? What’s wrong with the training staff?

J from the A

December 17th, 2010
6:21 pm

There is no way they should be pushing Joe to come back so quickly …

Joe is not going to admit it is still hurting …

Sautee

December 17th, 2010
6:30 pm

Well there goes any minutes JC2 would have played.

Sautee

December 17th, 2010
6:35 pm

Amazing recovery. I cannot imagine that the medical staff would allow him to play if he could jeopardize his condition.

Now the question is, what will the chemistry be like?

drmaryb (*_*)

December 17th, 2010
6:45 pm

HoopsHype Rumors:

» Update: 03:16 PM ET

Now that Portland is struggling, there’s no way to hide the fact that Roy and Miller aren’t a good fit in the backcourt together. Sources already have told CBSSports.com that Blazers officials are considering going young and moving some of their older pieces — such as Miller, Marcus Camby and Joel Przybilla. Miller, with a fully non-guaranteed $7.8 million in 2011-12, has off-the-charts trade value — especially for a contender in need of a steadying force at point guard. CBSSports.com



Portland Trail Blazers, Trade, Andre Miller, Joel Przybilla, Marcus Camby  |  share  

Sources continue to tell me that Orlando, which is concerned about not measuring up to Boston and Miami in the East, would be the perfect fit for Miller. The Magic are not going to accept carrying a $94 million payroll into the playoffs, only to lose in the conference semifinals — which seems to be their fate as currently constructed. Rashard Lewis’ impact continues to diminish, Vince Carter is little more than a jump-shooter, and Jameer Nelson is too inconsistent to rely on as the floor general of a championship-contending team. CBSSports.com
________________________________________

Here’s another one: MJ blasted the team after that blowout lost to Boston.

Word on The Street is MJ gauging 15-20 teams interest in:

Stephen Jackson
Gerald Wallace
But, Thomas appears untouchable (whoever that is). So far,
Chicago and Detroit seems interested in what MJ has to say. Thing is MJ is asking for a lot in return.

Oh yeah! Portland is shopping:
Andre Miller. (The Magic are interested)
Marcus Camby
Joel Prsyzbilla

They want to start their youth movement now, Roy and Miller are not working oput in the back court. Both Roy’s knees are fully insured financially. His problem is he has no cartilage. They need a new Knee doctor or what?

ryan

December 17th, 2010
6:52 pm

I hear the Bobcats are putting everyone on the block and the Hawks need a big man how about Gerald Wallace he is a beast and with some of players hurt we need make a move .

drmaryb (*_*)

December 17th, 2010
6:53 pm

Tough Guy!

I told yall Joe came back in Phoenix from the fractured orbital and played that play off series with the face mask. I knew he would return in less than four weeks, I figured three weeks though, not in two weeks!

Too bad for all the Joe Haters! Ha Ha! Section 303 prolly pissed now!

bigdave

December 17th, 2010
7:02 pm

Joe..? wow..

ryan

December 17th, 2010
7:02 pm

drmaryb (*_*) do you see the Hawks making a trade with players being out .

Blast

December 17th, 2010
7:02 pm

Can’t believe Joe is playing tonight!

Iron Man Joe!

Najeh Davenpoop

December 17th, 2010
7:03 pm

Joe is a tough guy, no doubt — say what you want about his game, but he has always been durable despite Woody overworking him pretty much the entire time he was here. I just hope he’s not rushing back too early. The last thing the Hawks need is for him to aggravate this injury and miss a larger portion of the season.

drmaryb (*_*)

December 17th, 2010
7:03 pm

MC I hope you feeling better.

bigdave

December 17th, 2010
7:04 pm

and he’s rocking the sleeve.. w/ elbow pad..

looks like he lost some weight..

Gator

December 17th, 2010
7:04 pm

Nothing to gained by playing JJ tonight

Blast

December 17th, 2010
7:12 pm

Joe has been shooting for about a week, now. I doubt he would play if he was still hurt.

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