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Atlanta Hawks: Celtics 102, Hawks 90

12:31 am December 17, 2010, by Michael Cunningham

Boston–Here’s the thing: The results don’t show context. They don’t note injuries or bad luck or nice efforts or anything like that. They only show Ws and Ls and for the Hawks they show that they can’t beat the better teams on their schedule.

  • You know the list: Phoenix, Orlando, Utah, Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and now Boston. “We have got to have these games,” Marvin said. “It’s not really early in the season anymore. We’ve got to do a better job closing these games out.”
  • The truth is the Hawks went to Boston and had a chance to win without J.J. and Jamal. They’ve never been completely healthy for any of their games against the best teams.
  • “What you have got to understand is we don’t have all our weapons,” Smoove said. I don’t think you can really measure where we are at as a team like those teams that you are naming unless we have all our horses running.”
  • I know that sounds like too much excuse making for fans, and I get that. But you know what? Smoove makes a fair point.
  • Yet it’s also true is that the Celtics turned them back without Rondo and three centers: Shaq, J. O’Neal and Perkins. Guard Delonte West was out, too, and Von Wafer lasted two minutes before leaving the game.
  • The Celtics are deeper and better, which might be expected given their payroll and pedigree but, again, the standings don’t care about stuff like that.
  • “They are an experienced team,” Al said. “They just know how to play.”
  • “They made plays and they tried to exploit our mismatches all night,” Marvin said. “They were tough.”
  • As long as Rick Sund sticks with the “core” philosophy, the Hawks are going to have to figure it out. Their challenge is to see if through experience, and despite their shortcomings, they can reach that level. Then maybe they win tight games against good opponents and others will be talking about how they know how to play and how they exploit mismatches.
  • “I am going to maintain my patience,” L.D. said. “The encouraging thing is we can look at a game against Miami on the road, San Antonio on the road, even Orlando the first time on the road, and now here we are against Boston on the road we are right there in the fourth quarter. We just can’t get over the hump. I am glad that we are right there but we’ve got to mentally learn how to get over the hump.”
  • Once again, you can point to a few missed chances cost the Hawks at winning time.
  • The Hawks trailed 77-75. Ray Allen steals the ball from Josh Powell, but Marvin hustles back to block Allen’s shot and start a Hawks fastbreak. But then Teague throws the ball away and, on Boston’s next possession, no one blocks out Glen Davis and he puts back a miss.
  • On Atlanta’s next possession, Nate Robinson ties up Teague and forces a jump ball. The Celtics controlled the tip, and then Robinson set up Pierce for a 3. After Marvin misses, Erden somehow finds himself free for a baby hook in the lane that made it 84-75.
  • Teague had three of Atlanta’s six fourth-quarter turnovers, marring what was otherwise a standout effort. Maybe it will mean his return to the rotation, as long as L.D. is willing to live with his mistakes.
  • “He came out that first half, really really aggressive on the floor,” Drew said. “That’s what he has to do every time he steps on the floor. That’s what I am looking for. I need that. He’s the only guy that has that speed and has that type quickness that can change the flow and tempo of the game. He did a great job again.”
  • Teague’s teammates were going wild as he was getting steals and dunks.
  • “Coaches told us to go out there and push the ball and be aggressive and play. Turnovers are going to happen but you just have to keep playing,” he said. “I just wanted to make an impact on the game. Me and Jordan at the beginning of the game, we had to make an impact, and hopefully get some stops on the defensive end and make some plays out there.”
  • Josh was out of sorts offensively. He didn’t have any touch around the rim. “I was in it on the defensive end, I just couldn’t help out offensively,” he said. “Good thing about it I have a chance to redeem myself tomorrow against Charlotte. I just can’t stop believing in myself. I think I got down on myself too early in the game because things weren’t falling.”
  • Josh had just two points in the first game against the C’s. This time he couldn’t finish in the post against Pierce.
  • “He didn’t have that explosiveness like he normally has around the basket,” Drew said. “That was very noticeable early in the game. I didn’t think we would totally dominate the matchup with Pierce, but I thought we would have a much larger advantage against Pierce with him using his size and strength and experience. He missed some easy shots. He rushed a few shots. He didn’t seem like he had that energy.
  • Al picked up his second foul with 4:25 left in the first quarter. He stayed on the bench the rest of the half and finished with eight points, 4 of 7 shooting, seven rebounds, 26 minutes and three fouls.
  • “That’s happened to him before and he has come back and bounced back in the second half,” L.D. said. “But he just never got into an Al Horford rhythm. But again, there are going be games where there are nights like this.”
  • Al had ice packs on both hands after the game. “I’m not going to make excuses about anything,” he said. “I hurt it against Indiana. My shooting has been like this for a couple games. It is really swollen so I have to make sure I ice it to keep it down. But it’s nothing serious.”
  • JC2 passed up an open shot early, the first indication that the rookie was off. He looked rushed while committing three unforced turnovers. “I hadn’t played since the last few minutes against Toronto,” he said. “I just wanted to get back in the flow but my timing was off. It was little mistakes I shouldn’t make regardless if you don’t play or not. That’s all on me. “
  • The Hawks didn’t let Robinson get on a roll this time (despite his 41 minutes) but Pierce hurt them as the point forward. “You could see [Robinson] was just out of rhythm with the ball,” Doc Rivers said. He was struggling with the ball and with his passing. So we just made Paul the point guard and it worked out.”
  • Powell played 4:19 of the fourth quarter and had all zeros across his stat line except for a turnover. Zaza had the same minutes in the final period and had a rebound and a steal.
  • Wilkins showed some life offensively while scoring scoring 10 points. He got four free-throw attempts through some crafty plays. He’s helping the Hawks.
  • At one point in the first half, the Celtics dropped off Mo to let him shoot a 3-pointer, and he looked like he didn’t want to do it. He finally halfheartedly chucked up a brick. It looks like his confidence is sagging.

Michael Cunningham

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257 comments Add your comment

darrell starks

December 17th, 2010
12:15 pm

Good trade for both team.
WARRIOR’S STARTER CURRY, WRIGHT, MARVIN, DAVID LEE, ZAZA.
BENCH JAMAL, CARNEY, REGGIE, BRANDON, GADZURIC

HAWKS STARTER MONTA, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, BIEDRINS
BENCH TEAGUE, JC2, DAMIEN, POWELL, COLLINS
RESERVE MOE, BIBBY
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

slimjr

December 17th, 2010
12:17 pm

@Another GM

“Josh Smith is killing the chemistry of this team”!!!

You are the first my man to observe that about Josh. He has been killing chemistry for seven years now!!! He and Marvin should be shopped ASAP!!
RICK SUND= BILLY KNIGHT Jr

ATL RAISED INDY LIVING

December 17th, 2010
12:21 pm

LOL @ JE JE….WELL SAID JE JE WELL SAID

Chris E

December 17th, 2010
12:30 pm

How is Josh killing the team? I totally disagree!!!! He brings great energy to the team, albeit negative at times LOL. Its still energy!!!! He has grown quite a bit and although his emotions betray him at times he adds too much to this team. His jumper has improved, he is playing more under control and he is electric on both ends of the court.(blocked shots & slam dunks) If he can continue to mature ang get the ball to the pg faster on breaks he would be on point. He will probably make the All Star team this year. You take him out of the lineup and we have nobody to protect the rim. He protects Bibby and makes Al better on D.

For the last time: THE HAWKS WILL NOT MAKE ANY TRADES!!!!!!!! If they play this motion offense better they will be very hard to beat. Al has become a consistent scorer, Josh is scoring down low and on the perimeter. We just need Joe to stay consistent. I keep reiterating that JJ healthy in a non iso fueled offense is deadly. Early on he was missing shots he normally knocks down and the Hawks were still winning.

They have the talent this year, right now to get past the 2nd round and with confidence who knows how far they can go!!!!!

REPETITION

December 17th, 2010
12:41 pm

THE JOSH SMITH ARGUMENTS ON THIS BLOG ARE GETTING LAAAAAAAAAAME. ENOUGH!

Section 303

December 17th, 2010
12:41 pm

Chris E, Josh does not bring energy every night. Last night was a perfect example. He was awful. Falling back to his old ways of half a$$ing up the floor, shooting bad shots, and falling victum to his low basketball IQ.

Guy has all the potential in the world. His 10-cent head just continues to get in his way.

cp

December 17th, 2010
1:00 pm

It was a tough L last night but you cant be mad at their effort. They did not quit when they got hit in the mouth and this team is known for laying down when they get hit… Good games from Marvin and Teague… Damien was also big off the bench…. The rest of the starters were terrible…

My problem last night was with some of the moves LD made… I thought he pulled Teague to early. Dude was playing lights out but he put Bibby back in who didn’t do much of anything. He also pulled Damien and put in Mo who has done nothing this season. Its time to put Mo in a suit and let Damien and JC2 have the minutes. JC2 will be fine out there. His mistakes did not cost us the game. Not boxing out or putting a hand in someones face hurt down the stretch. The Celts were getting wide open jumpers and when they did miss guys were not boxing out down low..LD really has to work on those lineups he throws out there because it has hurt this team a few times already this season.

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
1:01 pm

Section 303, your comment is foolishness. You said Josh doesn’t bring energy every night. So how do you explain Josh’s 3 steals in the first quarter? How do you explain the commentators speaking about Josh’s excelling at defense against Pierce for 2-3 minutes of the first half last night? Josh had some really nice assists last night. Josh was the only Hawk (besides Teague) who was attacking the defense and trying to score in the paint or draw contact also. Majority of Josh’s misses were around the basket in the lane. And they were attempts that he normally makes, so how do you call that low basketball IQ?

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
1:01 pm

“JeJe
Dwill is not better than Rondo..”

Yes he is.

The announcers were morons last night for thinking Rondo is MVP, when the guy has missed a ton of games this year.

D.Will is on a far less talented roster. He is the best PG in the NBA followed by Rose then Rondo AT THIS POINT

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
1:02 pm

Josh’s energy was not a problem last night.

He took a few too many jumpshots. He just had a really bad game

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
1:03 pm

There’s no way you can be the best PG in the NBA with no offensive game (Rondo)

cp

December 17th, 2010
1:05 pm

What I dont like about Josh is how he doesn’t attack the rim as he once did. His first two years in the league dude tried to rip down the rim if he was within a few feet of it. Now Josh tries to lay the ball up way too much and he misses a lot of easy shots… I think he got caught up in trying to be more than a dunker and it has taken away from something he once did well. Nique or somebody needs to get in his ear and tell him forget what folks think about him and go back to trying to destroy the rim when he gets that close to it. That finesse b.s. just ain’t cutting it. I think it was his first or second year where he was like in the top 3 in dunk attempts or most of his field goals came from dunks. I have to look that up to make sure but either way he needs to go back to dunking more instead of those soft layups.

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
1:16 pm

cp,

It’s mostly because Smoove is IN LOVE with shooting the J now

He thinks that if he plays good D, he can do whatever he wants on O (like MIA does) and also that LD will let him

No accountability no this team.

Really….None

slimjr

December 17th, 2010
1:21 pm

shop Marvin and Josh ASAP!

RCIK SUND= BILLY KNIGHT Jr

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
1:23 pm

Seriously, if we shop Marvin, Bibby, and Mo, and maybe JC1, and increase our payroll a bit, this team could be a contender for the next 3 or 4 years. We just need to spend more in players so we have better players in Mo’s spot of the rotation as well as at PG.

This team is not far off.

Oh yeah – a better coach would help too

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
1:31 pm

JeJe – I’m not going to bash LD. To me he’s done reasonably well.

I think Bibby has value as a spot up shooter, we’d just like to see Teague play hard more often & consistently. Dude had a few good nights lately, but not all season. It’s promising, but don’t sell out our only other PG prospect.

Marvin & Mo – enough said. We’ve beat them to death.

JC1 – I think he hurt his back when someone fell on him against the Spurs. He was really coming around and finally fitting into LD’s offense. He’s worth keeping, but only if ASG will finally venture into the tax. I wouldn’t keep him at the expense of another player – hopefully big or PG. He’s good trade bait, but risky to lose.

The real question is when will ASG believe in this team enough to risk going into the Luxury Tax? Without those pieces we’ll always come up 20-30 million short.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
1:34 pm

Smoove is the key. I like his J now and can respect that he has one. He can’t fall in love with it though. His strength should always be taking it to the rack HARD. He should’ve abused Pierce, but the C’s got the best of Smoove and AL. I told my wife when the game started – this ain’t good. Smoove and Al will fall victim to their mind games…and they did.

Sorry Ramon, Josh just didn’t get it done last night. You’re the only person that can’t see that?

Section 303

December 17th, 2010
1:38 pm

Ramon, I guess you missed Josh getting beat on a base line out of bounds play for a layup. People who were paying attention heard the announcers point that out, too. “He has to know that pick is coming”–Steve Kerr.

He was lazy running the floor and getting back on D. My favorite…he tries for a steal, misses, runs past half court, and does not bother to get back on D until the C’s had already taken a shot. Yeah, #5 was all heart last night. You’re right (read: sarcasim).

Section 303

December 17th, 2010
1:41 pm

JeJe, you really think a coach matters that much? Doc Rivers was on his way out the door…enter the Big 3. Suddenly, he’s considered the one of the league’s best coaches.

Coach Drew is going through same problems Woodson had with this crew. Random nights of no effort, quitting on games, rising up some nights…these things fall on the players more than the coach.

I’m for bringing back the player/coach, myself. Though, on this team, not sure who I would want to shoulder that load. Horford? Wonder if Al would take himself out of the game with two fouls?

Rod from College Park

December 17th, 2010
1:42 pm

Marvin had a great offensive game last night. His defense was not good, but that is LD’s fault for trying to have him chase Ray Allen around. He played with aggressivness, confidence and he stepped up. As we all know, this is not Marvin. I look for him to disappear either tonight or the next game and hibernate. In the NBA you are judged on being consistent, and Marvin has only proven to be consistently inconsistent.

All regular bloggers,

Please stop feeding into this It was not a bad pick character. He obviously is just posting crazy things to get people to react him. One game does not a season make. I mean he actually said that Marvin would start on other teams in the NBA. That should be enough to discredit him. No way he actually believes any thing he has been posting. The reason Josh takes more shots than Marvin is because he shots a higher percentage from the field than Marvin, he plays hard a very high percentage of the time, he has proved to be a much better player than Marvin from day one, and he does not play scared, as Marvin does. That is why.

That being said, Josh and Horford were terriible yesterday. Josh actually played some very good defense on KG and Pierce, but his offensive game was terrible. He needs to get back to finishing at the rim strong. He does not get the foul calls because he has started finishing weak at the rim. Maybe Joe has rubbed off on him. His attitude and body language is reverting back to the way he was last year and the year before with Woodson. Drew needs to get him under control before he goes back to his old ways.

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
1:45 pm

Fundamentals, in the second half Josh played bad. But am I the only person who saw it was HIS steals that lead to the fast breaks in the first quarter? I didn’t say he played great. But don’t confuse with the shots he missed on the offensive side as not bringing energy or making a difference. Josh guarded one of the hardest SF to guard in the league in Pierce. And guess what? Pierce went 5 for 15. Josh Smith held Pierce to 5 for 15 (and one of the threes he hit was in transition against Bibby). So how is that not showing up? Many of the fans only look at one side of the court, and that is the offensive side. But on defense, no one on the team played better than Josh. KG went 8 for 10, Erden went 5 for 6, Ray Allen hit 4-5 shots in a row to begin the 3rd. Glen Davis went 8 for 15. So as easy as it is to say Josh didn’t do good on offense. Its just as easy to see that he had the most impact of everyone on defense.

slimjr

December 17th, 2010
1:47 pm

Josh Smith does not know how to shoot a layup, ie “finger roll”. Does not know how to stop an “pop”.Does not know how to shoot a bank shot.This is learned in middle school and high school.Does not have an up and under move. No drop step..Shall I continue?No handle….. Give me Rudy Gay over him any day of the week!!! ..He’s at a major disadvantage against the elites!! But he thinks he’s the next Magic Johnson…”Chemistry killer” he is….
RICK SUND=BILLY KNIGHT Jr

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
1:49 pm

Section 303, Josh was picked out of the time out. Bibby was supposed to call out the pick because that was his man. That’s Basketball 101 to know that if your man sets a backdoor pit to call it out. Boston runs so many sets out of timeouts (because that’s what Rivers is famous for, being one of the best coaches at getting plays out of time outs) that Josh shouldn’t have ‘just known’ that the pick was coming. As you said Steve Kerr said that. What game do you remember Steve Kerr playing that he shut down his man? What highlight on defense have you ever seen from Steve Kerr? The most famous move on defense Steve Kerr ever made was taking a jab from MJ in practice on defense. Other than that Kerr and defense doesn’t go together. If your man set the pick, you’re supposed to a) call out the pick, and b) pick up the free man who’s rolling to the basket. EVERY coach in America teaches that from middle school to the NBA.

ReddJonn68

December 17th, 2010
1:55 pm

We have had one glaring need for several years a serviceable PG. Is the last real PG to play here named Mookie Blaylock we have had nothing but quick fixes since then. Teague suffered because Woodson refuse to play him, his confidence is shot. This team will go no where until we make a commitment to either sign or move up in the draft & sign a real floor general.

God bless Bibby for what he has given us but Sacramento let him go for a reason the upside had swung the other way. We can bring in any coach or another scorer at center or the wing but until you have a game manager, ala Rondo we will not compete with the big dogs!

I would take Andre Miller & even Baron Davis at this point, they would love to actually compete for a title. OKC traded away a decent young guy, because Westbrook is a monster. Our scouts are just not finding any jewels in the rough, any true Hawks fan knows every year we have issues at the point. When will management realize it as well.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
1:55 pm

Ramon – Second half, end of quarters, end of game. That’s when it matters. You said it yourself. Everyone did great till 2-3 minutes to go in the 1/2. Second half we just started sliding. Josh is the anchor of our TEAM defense and a CAPTAIN. Who cares if Pierce was “held down” by Josh’s amazing D if the entire unit around him went off for amazing % and great #’s. Josh is our anchor, he’s the fire to our TEAM D. He wasn’t there last night when it mattered. Horford lost his head as well. Collins was running out to fould folks shooting 3’s a times. TEAM defense takes chemistry, it takes teamwork. Josh is the core of that unit. They, as a team, played terrible TEAM D last night with both boys wearing C’s going down like chumps cause they couldn’t handle the trash talking and mental game that the C’s offer. They abused us late, when it mattered. That’s all that counts. I don’t care if Josh got 80 steals and 100 boards in the first quarter. Where was he at the end of every quarter? Where were they as TEAM DEFENSE when it really counted? Answer – on the bench cursing (AL) or on the court whining (Josh).

Section 303

December 17th, 2010
1:58 pm

Ramon, the play the Celtics ran was just as middle school. There was nothing complicated about it. Josh was not paying attention. And, when it comes to making the right call on the floor, I’m going with Bibby everytime (not every now and then, everytime) over Josh Smith. I need less than a second to make that call.

Josh Smith…he’s got all the talent. When he focuses, gives effort, he’s an all star. When he doesn’t….he’s whinning to refs, or yelling at the coach, or pouting during timeouts (ex: Philly game a couple weeks ago).

You’ve watched that guy play just as much as I have. You know effort, focus, attention…all problems for Josh Smith. And, they were all problems for him again last night.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:00 pm

Section 303 teaching Basketball 101 – AMEN Brother!

slimjr

December 17th, 2010
2:00 pm

ZaZa is “THE BIG STIFF’. just brutal to watch most of the time..Wow….

RICK SUND=BILLY KNIGHTJr

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
2:01 pm

Fundamentals,

The 2 foul rule destroyed us yesterday. Keeping Damien out the rest of the 2nd qtr because of 2 fouls? JC2 was awful out there. What is peoples’ obsessions with this guy? He is a one-dimensional STREAKY SHOOTER. He does not AFFECT THE GAME IN ANY OTHER WAY. He is worse than Flip Murray and probably compares to Jeremy Richardson.

We need Damien playing more minutes.
Just rest Mo if he is not healthy (or in general). STOP THIS BS 2 FOUL RULE IF GUYS NEVER ACTUALLY FOUL OUT

slimjr

December 17th, 2010
2:03 pm

Josh Smith does not have offensive talent..That’s why he was drafted 18th! And on most night he is actually a major liablity on the floor in crunch time because of his real immature offensive skill sets..

Section 303

December 17th, 2010
2:05 pm

slimjr, take it easy. Josh Smith can be a maddening player to watch. But, the guy has talent dripping out of his pores. He just has to try hard all the time and play smarter.

There is a really good (possibly all star) player in there somewhere. We’ve all seen that.

Leo the Lion

December 17th, 2010
2:07 pm

I don’t know about trading anybody, but I will say let Teague play a couple of games with extended minutes to see what the kid can do given a chance. The only way to learn now is trial by error. It cannot get any worse.

ReddJonn68

December 17th, 2010
2:12 pm

@slimjr Please don’t bring up draft position because we have had very high draft choices & mid round draft choices & still missed outstanding talent. Remember the Timberwolves draft in the top ten every year, yet the only jewel was KG!

JeJe

December 17th, 2010
2:14 pm

I am pretty sure Teague plays 8 min or less tonight or DNP-CD.

That’s Larry Drew.

Woody II

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:14 pm

JeJe – I agree on the 2 fouls and about Damien’s value. I’d rather see JC2 than Mo. Maybe he could develop. Mo is obviously not 100% and struggling. Even 100% he’s hard to use on this team, even with JJ and JC1 out, I’m still not sold on him finding a niche here. He’s spotty on his shooting and foul prone. JC2 should be suited and playing in games where we hold the lead or against opponents w/ losing records. He’s a future prospect. Don’t turn into Woody.

slimjr – Josh has come a long way since the draft. I’ll admit to bashing him for last night, but he’s making progress each season. He’s developing into a potential All Star. He’s not there this year, but give him some credit.

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
2:16 pm

Section 303, I’ve also watched Bibby play, and Bibby’s lack for communicating on defense is well chronicled. You could even see it on last season’s plays when Bibby and Horford would switch on back door screens. Somehow, Bibby’s man would be picked up by Horford, but Bibby would never rotate to Horford’s man. Bibby and back cut screens never go well together.

Fundamentals, Josh still played good on defense in the 2nd half. On the offensive end, he missed point blank easy shots, and also didn’t get any calls. And you speak about team defense. Josh can’t help Marvin run behind screens after Ray Allen. Josh can’t guard Pierce on the perimeter, and go box out Glen Davis at the same time from the offensive board. Horford wanted to play PF. And last night he went up against his first true test at PF, and got handled. Garnett and Davis both had 3 offensive rebounds a piece.

In the end, Pierce (Josh’s man) went to playing point forward. And Josh was right there the entire time. Pierce didn’t get his assists from driving and kicking. Pierce got his assists from standing at the top of the perimeter, and waiting for KG, Allen, and Davis to flare off of a screen. There’s nothing Josh can do about that. Josh can not provide help defense off of Pierce at the top of the perimeter (Pierce’s favorite spot beyond the arc). That’s LD responsibility to made adjustments in that situation.

As I said, Josh played terrible on offense. But his defense was great. And I’d rather have a night were someone plays terrible on offense and great on defense, than someone who plays great on offense and terrible on defense (Bibby, JC, and even Horford sometimes). Please remember though, Josh did show maturity on offense by refraining himself. Josh went 0-8. The last 8 games, Josh has been averaging 15 shot attempts or so, while shooting 50%. He could’ve easily had the mindset, I may make my next 7 shots. Instead, Josh played in the offense, and didn’t force it in the second half. Josh was only 0-2 in the second half. So was the biggest mistake that he didn’t take more shot attempts in the second half?

ReddJonn68

December 17th, 2010
2:18 pm

Why is everyone bashing J-Smoove?????? If he had any leadership around him during his tenure or a coach like Rivers or Sloan this guy would be headed to the HOF with his defensive prowess. If someone could lead & teach Josh, he could be an offensive Dennis Rodman, like it or not ” The Worm ” is a HOFer.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:19 pm

Ramon – Good work dude. I’ll grant you all that. I guess my overall dissappointment in how the game went down leaves me bashing the 2 – C’s on this team that played. True – LD should’ve made an adjustment. Maybe, just maybe Doc and Pierce made the decision to pull Josh further and further from the action to negate his help on D.

O'Brien

December 17th, 2010
2:28 pm

It was not a bad pick,

Nothing against Marvin. But JJ is consistently double teamed, and coaches game plan against JJ. but he still averages 20, 5 and 5 (although he is struggling this year).

Marvin is usually open, and usually has mismatches, being guarded by Kirk Heinrich and smaller players. If Marvin was consistently double teamed,no way he averages 20.

As For the draft, We needed a PG. we already had Josh Smith (drafted as a SF), and al Harrington. At PG, WE needed help. That’s my biggest reason for drafting CP3 or Seton. Plus PF is usually a more important position than SF.

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
2:35 pm

Fundementals, I can understand that. One thing I have noticed is that when Al plays PF, he doesn’t post up any more than he does at the Center position. And that really is alarming. I thought Al wanted to play PF because it would be a mismatch allowing him to post up on the block. However, I haven’t seen Al try to use the size advantage against PFs. I’ve seen Josh post up Garnett for the last 3 seasons, and have good success. But Horford still seems more interested in being at the top of the elbow waiting for a kick out. That is ok for a guard. But Horford has to put pressure on the defense to force more fouls and get to the line. For a big (in my opinion), if you have 20 points in a game, and only take 4 free throw attempts, you didn’t have a great game. When you score, you help yourself only. But when you draw fouls you help the entire team, because now when any of your teammates get fouled, they’re shooting if in the penalty.

Sautee

December 17th, 2010
2:38 pm

“not a bad pick”,

Despite Rod’s excellent advice, I’ll take this one up with you. It’s yet another unsupported statement (among many that you have made)

From the last blog where you said this: “If Al is not hitting jumpers he does not help you really at all, not really a great rebounder”

Al is 6th in the league among centers in rebounding and all of the other 5 are bigger and longer than he is.

As far as “other” things besides hitting his jumper, here’s some of what Al does:

Assists: 2nd among centers
FT%: 3rd among centers
Efficiency: 2nd among centers

This doesn’t mention his position defense, for which Pacers Coach Jim O’Brien lauded him for after Horford held 7′ 2″ 278 lb. Roy Hibbert to 3-14. Nor does it speak to a lot of little things like deflections, and tipped rebounds to a teammate.

Funny that you can notice all of the little things Marvin does and NONE of his teammates.

No doubt Horford was AWFUL last night, but to say that unless he’s hitting his jumper that he’s no help is a grossly negligent statement. And speaks to your growing lack of credibility here.

And it makes many of us wonder if you watch the Hawks or just watch Marvin. Because if you watched the Hawks then you would KNOW that Al has the most intangibles on the team. And the coaches around the league realize it which is why he made the All-Star team last year. There were many centers with better stats, but Al was the one chosen. Ever wonder why?

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:39 pm

Keep it rolling Ramon – good stuff. Horford tried a few inside, but got snuffed by Garnett.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:46 pm

it was not a bad pick = marvin’s grandma

Rod from College Park

December 17th, 2010
2:47 pm

Ramon,

First time we agree. Josh played very good on the defensive end last night. The guy that did not is the guy that everyone is praising, Marvin. He let Ray Allen take 3 uncontested 3 point shots at the beginning of the 3rd quarter, which helped spread the lead for the C’s. I will give him a pass though because LD should not have had Marvin checking Ray, he is not quick enough or agile enough to get around those screens. When I played it was called KYP(Know your personnel). He made up for it on the offensive end last night.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:47 pm

it was not a bad pick = rose colored glasses for viewing Marvin & binoculars for the remainder of the team

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:48 pm

Doesn’t every parent/grandparent think their kid is the best in town, no matter what = it was not a bad pick.

Fundamentals

December 17th, 2010
2:49 pm

I just got new sneakers for Christmas. Can I show up twice a month for 7.5 million?

Najeh Davenpoop

December 17th, 2010
2:52 pm

“DWill has never won a ring, come on man..It isnt like Bowie over Jordan.Utah is Dwill team..Marvin should be the 2nd option afterJoe Max only due to contract reasons…I dont know why it seem stupid or crazy that i believe in a guy coming off a national title game in which he made the key tip in as a freshman against Dwill’s fighting Ilini,almost drafted number 1 in the whole draft”

Well by this logic, the Charlotte Bobcats were perfectly justified in taking Adam Morrison (2 rings, amazing college career) over Rudy Gay (0 rings, good but not great college career).

Ramon

December 17th, 2010
2:53 pm

Rod, I agree, Teague should’ve been on Allen.

What I don’t understand is, why did they use the ‘big’ lineup against the Celtics? If the Hawks SWEPT the Celtics last season with their small line up. Why are they going to come into this game (without Shaq or Perkins playing) and attempt to change what they do. If they wanted to get out in run (as they said), wouldn’t it be easier with a small lineup (an extra guard) compared to having Collins in the game? You don’t adjust to a team that you’ve beaten 4 out of the last 5 times you’ve played.

Sautee

December 17th, 2010
2:53 pm

Ramon,

Good stuff. I haven’t been critical of LD, but I thought it was a mistake to start Twin last night. As you said, Josh has matched up well with KG in the past. And LD said he was doing it because Erden was “long” and would bother Al.

LOL, is he “longer” than Hibbert?

I posted yesterday that Al needs to be WAY more aggressive on offense, both driving to the rim AND getting post position and taking advantage. I’m delighted in his improvement in his face up game, but like you I’m wondering where the inside game went.

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