Atlanta Hawks: Celtics 102, Hawks 90
Boston–Here’s the thing: The results don’t show context. They don’t note injuries or bad luck or nice efforts or anything like that. They only show Ws and Ls and for the Hawks they show that they can’t beat the better teams on their schedule.
- You know the list: Phoenix, Orlando, Utah, Dallas, Miami, San Antonio and now Boston. “We have got to have these games,” Marvin said. “It’s not really early in the season anymore. We’ve got to do a better job closing these games out.”
- The truth is the Hawks went to Boston and had a chance to win without J.J. and Jamal. They’ve never been completely healthy for any of their games against the best teams.
- “What you have got to understand is we don’t have all our weapons,” Smoove said. I don’t think you can really measure where we are at as a team like those teams that you are naming unless we have all our horses running.”
- I know that sounds like too much excuse making for fans, and I get that. But you know what? Smoove makes a fair point.
- Yet it’s also true is that the Celtics turned them back without Rondo and three centers: Shaq, J. O’Neal and Perkins. Guard Delonte West was out, too, and Von Wafer lasted two minutes before leaving the game.
- The Celtics are deeper and better, which might be expected given their payroll and pedigree but, again, the standings don’t care about stuff like that.
- “They are an experienced team,” Al said. “They just know how to play.”
- “They made plays and they tried to exploit our mismatches all night,” Marvin said. “They were tough.”
- As long as Rick Sund sticks with the “core” philosophy, the Hawks are going to have to figure it out. Their challenge is to see if through experience, and despite their shortcomings, they can reach that level. Then maybe they win tight games against good opponents and others will be talking about how they know how to play and how they exploit mismatches.
- “I am going to maintain my patience,” L.D. said. “The encouraging thing is we can look at a game against Miami on the road, San Antonio on the road, even Orlando the first time on the road, and now here we are against Boston on the road we are right there in the fourth quarter. We just can’t get over the hump. I am glad that we are right there but we’ve got to mentally learn how to get over the hump.”
- Once again, you can point to a few missed chances cost the Hawks at winning time.
- The Hawks trailed 77-75. Ray Allen steals the ball from Josh Powell, but Marvin hustles back to block Allen’s shot and start a Hawks fastbreak. But then Teague throws the ball away and, on Boston’s next possession, no one blocks out Glen Davis and he puts back a miss.
- On Atlanta’s next possession, Nate Robinson ties up Teague and forces a jump ball. The Celtics controlled the tip, and then Robinson set up Pierce for a 3. After Marvin misses, Erden somehow finds himself free for a baby hook in the lane that made it 84-75.
- Teague had three of Atlanta’s six fourth-quarter turnovers, marring what was otherwise a standout effort. Maybe it will mean his return to the rotation, as long as L.D. is willing to live with his mistakes.
- “He came out that first half, really really aggressive on the floor,” Drew said. “That’s what he has to do every time he steps on the floor. That’s what I am looking for. I need that. He’s the only guy that has that speed and has that type quickness that can change the flow and tempo of the game. He did a great job again.”
- Teague’s teammates were going wild as he was getting steals and dunks.
- “Coaches told us to go out there and push the ball and be aggressive and play. Turnovers are going to happen but you just have to keep playing,” he said. “I just wanted to make an impact on the game. Me and Jordan at the beginning of the game, we had to make an impact, and hopefully get some stops on the defensive end and make some plays out there.”
- Josh was out of sorts offensively. He didn’t have any touch around the rim. “I was in it on the defensive end, I just couldn’t help out offensively,” he said. “Good thing about it I have a chance to redeem myself tomorrow against Charlotte. I just can’t stop believing in myself. I think I got down on myself too early in the game because things weren’t falling.”
- Josh had just two points in the first game against the C’s. This time he couldn’t finish in the post against Pierce.
- “He didn’t have that explosiveness like he normally has around the basket,” Drew said. “That was very noticeable early in the game. I didn’t think we would totally dominate the matchup with Pierce, but I thought we would have a much larger advantage against Pierce with him using his size and strength and experience. He missed some easy shots. He rushed a few shots. He didn’t seem like he had that energy.
- Al picked up his second foul with 4:25 left in the first quarter. He stayed on the bench the rest of the half and finished with eight points, 4 of 7 shooting, seven rebounds, 26 minutes and three fouls.
- “That’s happened to him before and he has come back and bounced back in the second half,” L.D. said. “But he just never got into an Al Horford rhythm. But again, there are going be games where there are nights like this.”
- Al had ice packs on both hands after the game. “I’m not going to make excuses about anything,” he said. “I hurt it against Indiana. My shooting has been like this for a couple games. It is really swollen so I have to make sure I ice it to keep it down. But it’s nothing serious.”
- JC2 passed up an open shot early, the first indication that the rookie was off. He looked rushed while committing three unforced turnovers. “I hadn’t played since the last few minutes against Toronto,” he said. “I just wanted to get back in the flow but my timing was off. It was little mistakes I shouldn’t make regardless if you don’t play or not. That’s all on me. “
- The Hawks didn’t let Robinson get on a roll this time (despite his 41 minutes) but Pierce hurt them as the point forward. “You could see [Robinson] was just out of rhythm with the ball,” Doc Rivers said. He was struggling with the ball and with his passing. So we just made Paul the point guard and it worked out.”
- Powell played 4:19 of the fourth quarter and had all zeros across his stat line except for a turnover. Zaza had the same minutes in the final period and had a rebound and a steal.
- Wilkins showed some life offensively while scoring scoring 10 points. He got four free-throw attempts through some crafty plays. He’s helping the Hawks.
- At one point in the first half, the Celtics dropped off Mo to let him shoot a 3-pointer, and he looked like he didn’t want to do it. He finally halfheartedly chucked up a brick. It looks like his confidence is sagging.
Michael Cunningham
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257 comments Add your comment
i_am_soulstar
December 17th, 2010
9:44 am
Still a good effort considering no Jamal, no Joe
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
9:46 am
When joe come back.
STARTER BIBBY, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, COLLINS
BENCH JAMAL, DAMIEN, MARVIN, POWELL, ZAZA
RESERVE TEAGUE, MOE
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Section 303
December 17th, 2010
9:47 am
It was not a bad pick, I agree that Marvin has all the tools. He does. I just do not think he has the desire to be great. I think he is happy with where he is at, and that’s fine. He is not a killer. I just do not think basketball is that important to him. I really don’t. That’s why you see that guy fold so easily most of the time.
jerrywest
December 17th, 2010
9:51 am
Drew needs to stop fouling out Horford and destroy the rhythm of the team. Smoove plays much better next to Al. Do you think Al would have fouled out in 26 minutes? That’s what Drew imposed on this team. Don’t act like an inflexible Woody.
Mike is back
December 17th, 2010
10:00 am
Rev in Tampa, interesting comments on LD…I would only add that maybe it would be a better idea to do with his coaching staff first.
Those other coaches have a better feel the players on the squad now…and they have seen this team play from afar…they may have notice some tendencies too…either away agree…it wouldn’t hurt to sit down and do an extensive review of strategy for closing out games.
J from the A
December 17th, 2010
10:02 am
Good game, Marvin. Hope to see more good games to come.
Where is Josh’s explosiveness? I don’t mean where was it last night. I mean where has it been all season. Don’t get me wrong. Josh is having a great season. But I’ve seen very little explosiveness around the rim from him this year.
Miles D
December 17th, 2010
10:07 am
AGAIN! JOSH COMPLAINING MAKING EXCUSES WHEN HE’S BEEN IN THE NBA GOING ON SEVEN YEARS WITH NO LEGIT POST GAME!! AND/OR TOUGHNESS DOWN LOW REBOUNDING!! REOCURRING THEME AGAINST THE “BIG TEAMS”! I’M TELLING YOU HAWKS FANS IT’S TIME TO SAY GOODBYE TO JOSH, MARVIN, AND ZAZA! CAN’T KEEP MAKING THE SAME EXCUSES WITH THAT KING OF EXPERIENCE!! OH! SO REALLY THEY GONNA LET A BUNCH OF OLD MEN OUTWORK AND THINK THEM!! C’MON MAN!!!
NCBravesFan
December 17th, 2010
10:11 am
Excellent breakdown, MC. Key sentences IMHO:
“As long as Rick Sund sticks with the “core” philosophy, the Hawks are going to have to figure it out. Their challenge is to see if through experience, and despite their shortcomings, they can reach that level.”
Given their bench, the lack of a center and “Marvin Williams, Mindfreak” … I’m guessing the answer is they can’t and they already know it.
bigdave
December 17th, 2010
10:15 am
“I hadn’t played since the last few minutes against Toronto,” he said. “I just wanted to get back in the flow but my timing was off. It was little mistakes I shouldn’t make regardless if you don’t play or not. That’s all on me. “
this kid is going to be alright..
bigdave
December 17th, 2010
10:15 am
he gets it.
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 17th, 2010
10:16 am
KUDOS TO JEFF TEAGUE FOR PLAYING CLOSE TO HIS POTENTIAL…HOPEFULLY HE ISFINALLY OVER HIS HUMP AND CAN PLAY UP TO HIS POTENTIAL..THAT WOULD BE HUGE FOR THE HAWKS…I HONESTLY THINK IT IS TIME TO BREAK UP THE HAWKS AND SHAKE THINGS UP..JOE JOHNSON SHOULD BE TRADED, BUT THAT JUST ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN…HERE ARE SOME TRADES THAT IM THINKING ABOUT..HAVENT REALLY RESEARCHED IF THESE TRADES ARE POSSIBLE OR NOT, SO FORGIVE ME IF THEY SEEM A BIT OFF OR IMPOSSIBLE…
TRADE#1: JOSH SMITH AND ZAZA TO MEMPHIS FOR RUDY GAY AND HASHEEM THABEET
TRADE#2: MIKE BIBBY AND MO EVANS TO WASHINGTON FOR KIRK HINRICH AND NICK YOUNG
TRADE #3: ETAN THOMAS TO PHOENIX FOR EARL CLARK
TRAD #4: MARVIN WILLIAMS AND JC1 TO PHILLY FOR SPENCER HAWES AND THADDEUS YOUNG
POTENTIAL LINEUP:
STARTING FIVE-
C-SPENCER HAWES
PF-AL HORFORD
SF-RUDY GAY
SG-JOE JOHNSON
PG-KIRK HINRICH
BENCH
C-HASHEEM THABEET
C-TWIN
PG – JEFF TEAGUE
SG – NICK YOUNG
SG – JORDAN CRAWFORD
SF – THADDEUS YOUNG
SF- JOSH POWELL
SF – DAMIEN WILKINS
PF/SF – EARL CLARK
PG/SG – PAPE SY
Miles D
December 17th, 2010
10:18 am
Darrell Starks,
No! Teague needs to get the start over Bibby and let Bibby come in for spot duty! Damien at the two, Josh at the three, Al at the four, and THOMAS at the five! And yes I said ETAN THOMAS AT THE FIVE!!! HE bring more toughness and rebounding! We need to change our thought process from finess to toughness! And sacrifice offense for defense because defensive toughness brings more offensive opportunities (i.e.Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Majic, Heat)! Plus, it would make our rotation deeper and more robust! LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
10:21 am
You people still bashing Marvin should be ashamed of yourselves. Josh Smith flat out didn’t show up last night, and Marvin played like Danny Grainger when he has it going.
But the focus is STILL on Marvin, because he doesn’t play like that all the time?
Please.
Tell the co-captain to keep being a factor in the game, even when his shot is off.
People on this board absolutely destroyed Joe Johnson when he had that 3 – 15 FG game @ New York, despite us comfortably winning the game . . and despite JJ performing in other areas ( 10 rebounds and 7 assists ).
Horford gets destroyed when he doesn’t show up.
But when Smith doesn’t show up, I guess it’s “well . . we’ll excuse him because he normally does show up”.
LOL . . the NBA is played on a game by game basis. And a team expects its star players to show up on a nightly basis. Even if he doesn’t play great basketball, at least make your presence known in the game.
Marvin is NOT a star. So I don’t expect him to consistently play at a high level I DO expect it from JJ, Josh, and Al.
If they don’t shoot well, at least affect the game in other ways. All 3 of those guys have done that in the past.
Unfortunately Josh, you excelling vs Charlotte will be a good thing, but it proves what people say about you and the rest of the squad . . that you and the boys are just too “soft” to take your games to that next level vs the top teams.
It’s easy to step up vs an inferior opponent.
Josh may have very well lost his spot in the All-Star game, with that performance last night. If Doc gets to pick the reserves, he’s NOT picking Josh over his boys Pierce or Garnett, even if Josh has better numbers.
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
10:26 am
Billy Knight made 4 horrible choices that will affect this franchise for years to come
1.picked MMarvin Williams #2 over Darron Williams/CP3/Danny Granger!
2. picked Josh Childress#6 over Andre Iqudollar/ Lou Aldeng!
3. Picked Sheldon (Slum lord) Williams #5 over Brando Roy/Rudy Gay!
4. Hired a rookie coach ( Mike”deer in headlights” Woodson) to teach and coach at the time the youngest team in the NBA!!
5a. Rick Sund=Billy Knight Jr
5b. Larry Drew=Mike Woodson Jr
‘
slimjr
December 17th, 2010
10:29 am
Marvin is done for the next 12-15 games. Thats how he rolls people…He got his check last night..Good for you WNBA MVP Candidate!
Another GM
December 17th, 2010
10:30 am
Drew is a terrible coach. He is a real step back from Mike Woodson. I heard folks around Atlanta say when he was hired how he was really gonna use his bench, well what happened? Finally last night we saw Teague get some minutes and he was rusty but played well. Teague is the future PG of this franchise. The difference in the game last night was the Celtics have chemistry and know how to play as a team, Atlanta does not have a clue. Josh Smith is killing the chemistry of this team. I would keep Horford, Marvin, and Teague and build the team from that core. Horford and Marvin understand how to play team ball. Josh Smith is so overrated is sickening.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:37 am
YOU DON’T WIN RINGS KEEPING THE SAME STARTING LINEUP 4 YEARS IN A ROW.
Can we PLEASE start Teague and reduce Bibby to an Eddie House role?
Damien played damn well last night. He is not one of our best players thought. If he gets 2 fouls, LEAVE him in. HE FINISHED THE GAME with 2 FOULS
If we had gotten Avery, Marvin would be coming off the bench with Jamal, would have a defined role, and would be averaging 15 a game.
Instead, LD LEAVES THE SAME DAMN STARTERS OUT THERE EVERY GAME.
I don’t care if Bibby makes his shots – HIS SHOOTING IS THE ONLY WAY HE IMPACTS THE GAME. START TEAGUE
And I think ASG prefers if at least 1 player is injured – they can just use the injury excuse if we ever lose.
LD YOU TALK ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY. YOU NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TOO. YOUR 2 FOUL RULE IS !@#$!@#$%
northcyde
December 17th, 2010
10:40 am
LOL @ Josh for Rudy Gay. Memphis fans would laugh in your face with a trade like that. Memphis fans wouldn’t even trade Zach Randolph for Josh Smith.
I hate to tell people this, but only Hawk fans think of Josh Smith as a potential superstar. We get to see him do a lot of good things as Hawk fans, but Smith does not move the needle outside ATL.
None of our guys do.
And MilesD . . just because Etan is built like the Hulk, doesn’t mean that he’s some tough guy rebounder. He hasn’t been that for years.
Collins should only start ( or play ) against teams that have a scoring center that needs to be slowed down. Otherwise, he’s not going to be a factor, because he doesn’t consistently rebound, get block shots, or even deter shots.
Without another effective bruiser at PF or C, Josh and Al simply have to play bigger and tougher. That won’t happen when Horford plays PF and Josh plays SF. That gives both guys an “excuse” to play a little more softer.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:43 am
LD says: “I am glad that we are right there but we’ve got to mentally learn how to get over the hump.”
And how exactly are we going to mentally learn that? EVERY SINGLE GAME IT’S THE SAME ISH: PLAY HARD FOR 3 QTRS OR SO THEN COMMIT TURNOVERS. EVERY GAME IS THE SAME THING. YOU DON’T LEARN BY LOSING THE EXACT SAME GAME EVERY SINGLE TIME
CHANGES DAMNIT
O'Brien
December 17th, 2010
10:43 am
it was not a bad pick,
You would still take Marvin (over CP3 and Deron) if you had a do-over of the draft? Wow. I think you are related to Marvin.
LD needs to stop with this automatic 2 foul rule. Al finished the game with 3 fouls!
I think eventually, Al is going play more timid after picking up his first foul, because he will be afraid of getting a 2nd foul and being taken out the game.
MC,
Can we get an article/update on Pape Sy. Hawks selcted him with the 53rd pick, paid part of his buyout, brought him over, and he has not been seen or heard from.
Compare that to Boston, who selected Semih Erden with the 60th pick, and he is contributing for them (although its partly because Shaq and JO are injured).
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:47 am
People act like it was okay to see JC2 in there making rookie mistakes in the 2nd qtr.
WTH are you people smoking? We aren’t the freaking Timberwolves. We’re TRYING TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. You don’t let an experienced one-dimensional rookie play solid minutes ON THE ROAD against an ELITE team’s STARTERS
Besides the 3rd qtr when BOS was on fire, we pretty much played at their level.
I still wanna know, however, why BOSTON ALWAYS HAD UNCONTESTED SHOTS.
Every time Baby Pierce or Allen shot, you knew it was going in
This team will lose in the 1st round unless:
1)BOX OUT
2) PLAY DAMIEN MORE MINUTES
3) LET TEAGUE START IF HE PLAYS WITH THAT ENERGY
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:55 am
Another reason Boston is so much better than us, in addition to their far superior coaching, is that
THEY HAVE A MUCH HIGHER PAYROLL.
We are spending scraps and bones for Collins and Powell, whereas this team spent the MLE on J’Oneal (who hasn’t even played) and got guys like Delonte and Nate back
WE NEED TO INCREASE OUR PAYROLL IN ORDER TO STAY COMPETITIVE
We could’ve f’ing traded Marvin and Bibby for MONTA ELLIS or Marvin for Shaq
LOL
And those who think Smoove is an All-Star are crazy. He gets triple doubles and other inflated stats vs awful teams then throws temper tantrums if he stops getting calls
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:58 am
SWITCH up the starting lineup tonight.
EXPERIMENT AND START TEAGUE AND PLAY HIM WITH THE 1ST unit.
START DAMIEN WILKINS
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
10:59 am
And stop with the “we showed we can compete, we just need to finish” BS. We would’ve competed in this game 3 years ago. THIS TEAM NEEDS A WINNING MENTALITY WHICH IT DOES NOT HAVE
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
10:59 am
I am sick of some of you pseudo Hawks fans. I will chalk it up to being too emotional!!! Do the Hawks have problems to iron out? Yes!!! Are they very far away from being an elite team? I don’t think so!!! The hawks can beat the best teams.They did it last year and they will do it again this year. The team just has to take time to gel. They have to go thru their growing pains. As a Hawks fan I am just as frustrated in their inability to win close games in the 4th quarter against quality opponents as anyone, but I see great potential!!!
The Hawks are not going to make a trade, so don’t waste your time writing on the subject. Nor do they have to. They just need their roles defined and rotation refined. Drew has done a good job but has to make definitive decisions about his rotation, especially who will play at the end of games. I don”t like his rotations but I will give him a pass right now because I think its part of his learning curve. I just get sick of the negativity by so-called fans and their take on the Hawks. The media already does not show the Hawks respect!!! At least we as fans should. JJ does not deserve his contract, Marvin should be traded, Drew can”t coach, Josh needs to stop complaining. As if any fan on this blog can do better. That’s laughable!!! Who’s getting on the fans for not supporting the Hawks at home games. Has there even been a sellout this year? This is the best Hawks team we have had in decades but no support. Very WEAK FAN SUPPORT!!!
Mark my words, when JJ gets back the Hawks will be much more consistent and win many more close ones. In his absence the players have matured and grown to depend on their abilities and as long as JJ sees his players step up he will respond in kind. JJ was never an iso guy in Phoenix< that was forced on him and for those of you who don"t feel he earned his contract I ask what type of Hawks team did we have before he came? And what type of team do we have now? Its night and day!!! So haters please keep the negativity to yourself. The Hawks will be 3rd or 4th seed and will shock many people this year, just wait and see.
For all the real Hawks Fans keep your head up!!! We have a very good product that is getting better and I am very excited about this year and beyond!!!!!!!!!
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:02 am
Same ole story, different night. We’re in our typical 6-8 game sulk after a great winning streak folks. Expect another 1-2 embarassing losses and then they’ll go on a tear. How hard is it to play hard, every night for a full 48 minutes?
Josh proved once again he can’t play on the national stage. He and Horford were intimidated by the national tv audience, by superior players and thus tanked last night.
Props to Jeff Teague for showing he is capable of All Star play. The kid was dominating the competition in stretches. Giving flashes of that is great, but not when you suck 6-8 games in a row after. Hopefully he’s putting it all together. Great game.
Marvin again shows flashes that when he’s expected to be “the man” he comes through big. Why he can’t fit in on other nights, especially when Joe and Jamal are in is beyond me? At least he could hit the open shot, but like ZaZa, when he’s not the “featured” player he slides. Another awesome flash of All Star Talent that just never shows on a nightly basis.
Mo – How do you continue to play? Why won’t LD put in JC2 or Damien and just live with it? Your knee can’t be 100%? You’re just not there right now. You don’t deserve minutes.
rusty
December 17th, 2010
11:05 am
Josh stop making excuses you are getting paid for evey game. Start being a man ,start dunking the ball,stop trying to shoot outside jumpers keep your azz under the basket where it belongs. You are trying to be a finese player,man up for Christ sake & stop whining like a little puss. Woody was a horrible coach & it is starting to look like ld is his equal. He seems to absolutely have no feel for the game, after teague plays great he pulls him out of the game for bib by ,he always does the same thing to jc1 when a man is hot what the he’ll are you taint him out for mb or mo. Why the he’ll are you even playing mo. Some of the combos you put on the floor are just horrible. Mb leading this team just always means that we will play slow half court basketball.play jc2 he is already better than mo.stop playing jc1 at the point. I am starting to actually think that ld is a down grade. As far as jj goes he will score 20 plus points as long as he gets 20 plus shots. He is a ball hog & desroys all ball movement. Wilkins has to go out there & start looking for his shot.
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
11:07 am
“The team just has to take time to gel. They have to go thru their growing pains. As a Hawks fan I am just as frustrated in their inability to win close games in the 4th quarter against quality opponents as anyone, but I see great potential!!!”
LOL @ the team needing time to gel. THE CORE HAS BEEN TOGETHER FOR 4 YEARS
that’s over 300 games
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:10 am
Wilkins will settle in and find his shot. Right now he’s trying his best to mesh with the team and not seem selfish. Let him get into the flow of the team and hope we find a way to keep him. He’s been a very nice role player thus far. Seems to bring it every night.
Props to Powell for playing through the knee injury. The kid brings it every night, hurt or not. He’s a warrior. Maybe some of you don’t like his talent level, but he’s doing what we brought him in for. Playing his best, giving his all and trying to help this team EVERY NIGHT.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:10 am
Fundamentals, you say Josh and Horford were terrified on the big stage. Yet, 3 of the 4 games they played against the Celtics were on national television, and guess what, Josh and Horford played great. Josh missed some attempts he normally make. But please don’t forget that Josh’s defense was EXCELLENT. In the first half, he had three steals, and even more deflected passes. Josh played the best defense out of the entire night. And on many of their attempts Josh and Al were both being fouled under the basket. The referees just have a very slow whistle in Boston, if you’re not wearing white and green (ask Lebron and Kobe about that one). The Hawks are going to be fine.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:14 am
Also, how is what Josh said, any different than what Dwight Howard said 2 weeks ago? Or how is it any different from what Boston said all of last season? How is it any different from what Gasol has been saying the last 3-4 weeks without Bynum? Every team says that, and its the truth. Last night the announcers mentioned Rondo and Shaq’s name as being injured and not available more than they mentioned Joe Johnson’s name. And then they mentioned Crawford’s name more than Joe Johnson. The fact that the Hawks are playing with out their best perimeter player (and defender), along with their sixth man of the year, that is a big thing. And any other team in the league would say so also. Every time ESPN spoke about the Bulls they made sure to mention that Boozer was injured (now Noah).
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:17 am
JeJe – I can admit to agreeing to some of the gel comments. We’re getting a real good idea where our problems lie. Hopefully Sund/ASG will find ways to improve this team during the free agent frenzy in Feb.
Right now I see our key trade pieces as Marvin, Mo, Bibby, ZaZa, Etan and Sy. JC1 might also be there, but I wouldn’t give him up for just anyone.
Needs = quick footed defensive/rebounding 7′center, 6′4″-6′8″ PG who can penetrate and defend, SF who can hit the 3 ball, rebound and defend.
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:23 am
O’Brien
yeah i would take marvin over Dwill again if the coach would promise that Marvin gets his touches…I must be the only guy who wacthes the game…when the team is healthy,Marvin is the 5th option on the hawks..How does he get so much of the blame?…What about the 1st option Joe max?..I still think marvin will ne a 25ppg scorer in the NBA..It just might not be with the Hawks..dwill has never won a ring also….
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:25 am
Ramon, I’m not condemning the team or Josh. Dude in my mind wasn’t that great on D last night. Boston scored inside at will on our bigs. No one really kept them from getting the shot they wanted, when they wanted. Josh spent alot of time whining. Horford got the LD treatment for his technical foul. They weren’t in the game, they weren’t in the flow, they got dominated by Big Baby, Erden, Pierce, KG in terms of hustle, and team play.
We’ll be fine, but we’ll never move forward till we can play our game, using our talent and dominate them the way we’ve all seen we can. Did it happen last night? Definitely not, and it wasn’t b/c Joe or JC1 were out, it was because we let down and let them dominate us w/o several of their key players. We lost playing their game. We were out hustled, out played mentally and therefore – blown out again at the end!
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:27 am
It was not a bad pick – you’re definitely Marvin’s mom or something. I love the kid. I do think he could be an All Star talent..on another team. He and ZaZa need to be on a team where they are the feature. That’s when they play their best. Here, they just don’t bring it b/c they can’t find their niche. Add Mo into the trade.
Where do you want your son and his two friends to go? I’d take D Will right now for all 3.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:30 am
Fundamentals, Josh wasn’t guarding the bigs most of the night, he was guarding Pierce. And when Josh was in the game Pierce was pretty quiet, especially in the first half. And in the second half Pierce didn’t score hardly anything.
Also, the only person on the Hawks bench who may be as strong as Glen Davis, Shaq, or Perkins, is Etan Thomas. But he doesn’t have any quickness or lift to be able to play for long stretches of time.
The sad part of all this is knowing that we could’ve had Shaq if Sund wasn’t having a love affair with Marvin’s potential. Now you could have Bibby, Wilkins, Josh, Horford, and Shaq while Joe was out.
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:31 am
last night was a perfect example of how Marvin has been held back in Atl…tonight i gurantee that if he get plays ran for him he will eat Wallace alive..the guy is a beast..that is a complete mismatch..just to big and strong…If i was drew i would run him off screens all night long.Marvin has the face up game, Range on his shot, and he can play with his back to the basket…Its easy to bash a guy who goes 3-7 from the field, but between Max,jamal and Josh thats 55 shots attempted…
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
11:35 am
LOL @ DAMIEN being a victim of the 2 foul rule…Someone WHO DOESN’T EVEN START
JeJe
December 17th, 2010
11:36 am
LOL @ it was not a bad pick.
Let’s say you’re right and Marvin is the 4th best SF in the NBA (LOL!):
he still is not as good as Deron…You know why? Because DERON IS THE BEST POINT GUARD IN THE NBA AND IS A VIABLE MVP CANDIDATE
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:38 am
Fundamentals
lol, yall crazy on here..ZaZa cannot play..A change will not help him..Marvin could start for every team in the NBA except Heat,Thunder,nuggets,celtics, i forgot about pierce….maybe a team like the Clippers .
Jordan,Bledsoe,and 1st rouder for marvin,zaza,Mo..
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:43 am
It was a not a bad pick, if Sund could get Jordan, Bledsoe and a 1st for Marvin, Zaza, and Mo.
I will think he has something over the head of Sterling.
It was not a bad pick
December 17th, 2010
11:43 am
JeJe
Dwill is not better than Rondo..
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:43 am
JeJe – Marvin has a key opportunity to display his All Star/ MVP talent vs Charolotte. We’ll see what happens.
Ramon, I’ll agree with that. Sad we got Etan who will never play. I just saw the out of touch, whiney 18-year old Josh last night, not the infectious dominating Josh we see some nights. He’s the key when we “take a night off”. Boston & Spurs = total mental breakdown.
We had the talent, we just got outplayed, outcoached, outhustled – especially at crunch time.
Leadership begins with the C’s – Last night Josh & Al didn’t lead us – Marvin and Teague did.
Ramon
December 17th, 2010
11:45 am
I will say this, I don’t think Marvin was the bad pick. Simply because when he was picked 26 other GMs would’ve picked him also. Now I do think Sund was stupid for giving him such a large extension. His extension should’ve been 2 years with a team option for a year three. I actually believe Marvin would average 17-18 ppg if he played in Utah, Phoenix, or Golden State.
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
11:48 am
Enter your comments here
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:54 am
ZaZa has the same impact as Marvin night in and night out. Compare their nimbers if we compare them w/ equal minutes (multiply ZaZa’s stats by 2 since he plays 14.6 minutes compared to 29.6 minutes.)
Marvin 10.3 points, 4.6 boards, .3 blocks, .57 steals, 1.3 assists
ZaZa 8.6 points, 7.2 boards,.84 boards, .54 steals, 1.4 assists
Yeah, Marvin is sooooo much better. We should extend him today.
Fundamentals
December 17th, 2010
11:57 am
I agree Ramon 100% w/ your 11:45 post
IMHO Marvin would benefit from being elsewhere. Both kids don’t have a niche here. It’s so obvious when other guys are out. The question is – do you deal the other guys to feature Marvin or vice versa? I just don’t see the fire in Marvin every night. He’s injury prone, I’d hate to rely on him as our feature.
What could Portland offer to get the kid home?
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
12:03 pm
Boston has 3 proven go to guys. The Hawks had 1 last night and that’s Bibby who is much like Ray Allen who has to come off screens. That was the difference. Josh had an off night because he was pressing. The Hawks have to learn to execute down the stretch and that won”t improve until their regular rotation is back. Bibby, JC1, JJ, Josh and Al. If this group executes down the stretch you have to pick your poison. But they have to run their offense and look for the rhythm shot instead of iso. You could add marvin in that end of the game rotation at time. But execution is the key. With JJ and JC1 in it makes everybody better. Josh and Al are still complimentary players.
Big Baby & Nate can hit the open shot because everyone is worried about Ray, Paul and KG. Look at the elite teams and you will see that they have at 2 or 3 options at the end of games. The Hawks are still figuring out where to go and how to trust each other down the stretch. Because of injuries the process will take longer. 2 years ago it was Bibby & Joe, Last year it was Joe & Jamal. This year with the motion offense it could be either of the 5 but preferably, JJ, JC1 or Bibby. The more options the better. The better the execution the more confident they will become in those situations. The more they buy into the system the harder they practice on it. The better they practice the better results. Its a process and Boston, LA, Miami, Dallas, Orlando and the Spurs have been tested and proven in those areas, not yet in ATL.
darrell starks
December 17th, 2010
12:08 pm
The warrior’s are 9 win 16 loss and need a SF bad, marvin 2 warrior’s would be perfect for both team plus he would be close 2 home.
MARVIN, JAMAL, ZAZA, AND 1ST FOR MONTA, BIEDRINS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris E
December 17th, 2010
12:14 pm
The deep bench of the Hawks will benefit them when their roles are better defined. The 2nd unit should always be Teague, JC1, DWilkins, JPowell & Zaza. Then the Hawks can mix and match depending on the situation. They can legitmately run 11 or 12 deep which never happened under Woody. I believe the Hawks will be stronger if Marvin came off the bench and they started Collins. Collins still wouldn”t play but 15 or 20 minutes a game but that presence in the middle would free up Al and Josh. It might also provide Marvin with more consistency.
Right now, Mo has been usurped by DWilkins. With Collins starting the bench becomes Teague, JC1, Dwilkins, Marvin with ZaZa and Powell playing based up the need. Marvin would still play starters minutes but Al would get the bulk of the game at the 4.