Atlanta Hawks at Celtics: Can they do it without J.J. and Jamal?
Boston–Jamal is out with a sore back. J.J. is back in Atlanta.
Is there any chance the Hawks can go back home with a W?
Under the best circumstances, it would be difficult for the Hawks to do it; it will be dang tough while missing an All-Star and Sixth Man Award winner. Then again, somehow win this one and it really would mean redemption for that Nov. 22 surrender at Philips.
On Boston’s side, Rondo says he’s in despite a balky ankle. (Update: Celtics GM Danny Ainge says Rondo to miss “weeks” with injury.) Shaq says he’s out. Even if Shaq plays, L.D. said plans to send out the big lineup with Twin at center.
“I want to play Al at the four,” Drew said. “The rookie [Semih Erden] is real long. I like the matchup better moving Smoove to three and Marvin to two; it gives us an advantage on the offensive end. We will match up Smoove on Pierce [to] put a little length on him to see if that bothers him. We will try to do some thing offensively with Allen having to defend Marvin. See if we can create an advantage size-wise with that.”
Maybe the Celtics will be sapped after that hard-fought W at Madison Square Garden last night. Perhaps the Hawks will chapped by that ugly L at Detroit and motivated to save face against the C’s. Of course Boston beat down the Hawks on a back-to-back last time with energy ball Nate Robinson doing the damage early.
The Celtics did show some vulnerability last night. It was shocking to see the Knicks working the pick-and-roll so easily. Doc noted he couldn’t put KG or Big Baby on Amar’e too often because the power rotation is thin without Shaq, J. O’Neal and Perkins. Can the Hawks take advantage, too? Note that the Knicks only have two Ls since Nov. 16, to the Celtics and Hawks.
Granted, the Hawks don’t have Amar’e pogo sticking as their roll man but Al is deadly on the pick-and-pop and Smoove is a load when he gets the ball going to the rim. Together, they are like a composite Amar’e. Gallinari was a weapon for the Knicks–ESPN talker Jeff Van Gundy noted that the C’s couldn’t “short close” on him at the 3-point line because he’s so big he can shoot over them, and once they closed hard Gallinari went by them to the hole. Dare I say Smoove should try to do the same if he makes the first couple (inevitable) 3-pointers he launches?
The Knicks did enough to get some respect from the Celtics, who aren’t the types to give it easily:
“They test our defense,” Pierce said. “There are few teams in the NBA that test our defense. That’s one of them because they go small ball and they put four shooters on the court. Then when you got a big man who’s an elite scorer in this league, who can shoot from everywhere, they’re a tough guard.”
“I’ll say one thing about the Knicks, they’re confidence is obviously through the roof,” Garnett said. “Definitely a team to reckon with.”
Obviously L.D. watched Knicks-Celtics, too, and he noticed some things. He said the Hawks would run a lot of pick-and-rolls and also try to run with Teague and JC2 getting some burn looking to do both.
“They struggled with [the pick-and-roll],” L.D. said. “New York, they picked up the pace, too. In that fourth quarter a few times Boston scored and New York got the ball out, came right back down and scored. It’s that type of tempo we have had success [with] in the past playing at that pace. At the same time, you have got to be smart coming down and not jacking up that ill-advised shots, especially on the road.”
MC
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782 comments Add your comment
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
4:41 pm
@it was not a bad pick
“marvin was not drafted to be the man…the man is Joe max who currently is nursing an bad elbow…with the 2 quick shot brothers both hurt, Marvin should get some plays called for him tonight..Also Drew is starting a true center….i predict a close win with Marvin hitting one of his famous corner threes or maybe one of his many sportscenter highlight dunks….
Dude what are you smoking?? Put down the pipe please…………….
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
4:46 pm
Rondo out “weeks.”
Is that a good or bad thing given how Nate plays against us?
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
4:47 pm
If marvin gets 10 or more shot attempts tonight he will get 20 or better..just to big, strong and skilled to even be held down by his own team
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
WE NEED TO RUN THE BASKETBALL, TIRE OUT NATE SO THEY HAVE NO BACKUP PG
UPTEMPO BASKETBALL
NONE OF THIS HALFCOURT BS
WE CAN WIN THIS GAME
Jae Evolution
December 16th, 2010
4:51 pm
Can we offer a trade to Houston for Lowry and J. Hill…
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
4:54 pm
Slim jr…
marvin has hit many big shots in the past..I can remember the celtics game, the wizards game, i was there when he calmly drained that three..he will show up tonight..no Joe Max,no jamal…You will see why the bucks had to really think about that #1 pick…oh no pipe just some purple and blue anthrax….
J from the A
December 16th, 2010
5:12 pm
Might the Hawks have a chance? The Celtics, who are normally a very deep team, are looking pretty thin down low and now Rondo is out. hmmm … but of course the not-so-deep Hawks are missing their biggest scoring threat (JJ) and their biggest scoring threat off the bench (JC1). If Josh and Al play as solid as they have been AND if Marvin can really step it up AND if one of our bench players (JC2, Teague, or MO) is able to have a stand out game, then MAYBE the Hawks pull out a win. That is a lot of IFs, but I guess it is possible.
(Out of those three IFs, which one is least likely to happen?)
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
5:21 pm
@ It was not a bad pick
“f marvin gets 10 or more shot attempts tonight he will get 20 or better..just to big, strong and skilled to even be held down by his own team”
“marvin has hit many big shots in the past..I can remember the celtics game, the wizards game, i was there when he calmly drained that three..he will show up tonight..no Joe Max,no jamal…You will see why the bucks had to really think about that #1 pick…oh no pipe just some purple and blue anthrax….”
JJ has hit many big shot too…But since you are Marvin’s only fan on these blogs I will give you credit for being that one lone voice kissing his huge kaboose..Marvin hits one “big” shot about once every three months!! Unacceptable in the big boys league playing the super critical “3″…. Marvin would look good in the WNBA league….MVP Candidate! Watch how Paul P operates from the “3″ tonight.A thing of beauty!.Marvin can only dream of playing like that night in and night out…..LD needs to bench this bust…
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
5:24 pm
“News Flash” Hawks down by 20 pts with 6 minutes left on the clock in the second quarter!
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
5:27 pm
The ONLY way we win tonight is by PUSHING THE TEMPO. Teague needs 2nd qtr minutes
RUN THE BASKETBALL.
We do not have the personnel offensively to win, but we need to PUSH the ball and CERTAIN GUYS NEED TO STEP UP
Gator
December 16th, 2010
5:37 pm
It was not a bad pick – Billy Knight
terrell
December 16th, 2010
5:46 pm
I’ll be shocked if Boston still has it’s starters on the floor at the beginning of the 4th qtr.
YoDaddy
December 16th, 2010
5:47 pm
HELICOPTER NO we can’t do it without JJ and Jamal
Celtics have too much heart for that. KG, Pierce & Allen will get it done.
I love the Hawks but we gotta be realistic here
terrell
December 16th, 2010
5:47 pm
But you never know with the Hawks.
YoDaddy
December 16th, 2010
5:49 pm
Nate Robinson is the perennial Hawks killer. Playing against us for him is like Jordan at MSG. Nate bout to drop 25
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
5:50 pm
@Gator
“It was not a bad pick – Billy Knight”
LOL!
terrell
December 16th, 2010
6:02 pm
Marvin bout to drop 40. lol!
Michael Cunningham
December 16th, 2010
6:10 pm
@JeJe: “Shaq says he’s out. Even if Shaq plays, L.D. said plans to send out the big lineup with Twin at center. MC, what does this mean? Does this mean we are playing a big lineup regardless? I still don’t get why we didn’t use the big lineup in Atlanta.”
yes, that’s what it means.
Michael Cunningham
December 16th, 2010
6:11 pm
Blog updates with Rondo out for “weeks,” according to Danny Ainge.
Michael Cunningham
December 16th, 2010
6:11 pm
Blog updates with Rondo out for “weeks,” according to Danny Ainge.
Michael Cunningham
December 16th, 2010
6:13 pm
@Daniel: “MC, Why doesn’t LD give Teague more consistent burn, especially against teams with quick PGs? Bibby can’t guard quick PGs to save his life. Plus putting Jamal at the point makes no sense whatsoever. All he does is look for his own shot. Do you think LD is feeling the same pressure Woody did and is only looking to win today with no regard for the future?”
i plan to blog on this soon. basically, in L.D.’s view, Teague hasn’t developed enough offensively to trust him with more minutes.
Michael Cunningham
December 16th, 2010
6:15 pm
@J from the A: “Does the pick and pop only work well against the C’s when the player doing the popping also can legitimately go hard to the rack on a pick and roll? If that is the case, that may be the difference between Al and the Hawks being successful at pick and roll/pick and popping and Amar’e and the Knicks being successful at it.”
good point.
The Truth
December 16th, 2010
6:33 pm
Thoughts for Today:
Reflecting back on drafting JC2 with both JJ and Jamal out with injuries illustrates that a team can never have too many shooters
Speaking of injuries, was Jamal injury physically-inflicted or ego-inflicted due to his recent shooting slump?
Since Marvin underperformance and disappointments are all but unanimous in Hawksville; it begs the question why hasn’t the team called him out in a team meeting. If they haven’t already, the team should hold a special meeting specifically to call Marvin out. I can’t believe his inconsistency has gone under the radar for so long without at least a whisper amongst the team members. Marvin is a starter playing as if he’s still searching for a role on this team after 5 seasons. Marvin seems to be loafing on way too many occasions. If he shows up against Boston which I hope he will, his inconsistencies will remain a question.
Finally, don’t you get the sense that the Hawks is getting ready to turn the corner for the worse? With an unfavorable schedule forthcoming and some eastern teams surging, the absence of JJ (and others) could finally show. Even when JJ returns, he will need time to return to form. Consequently, LD obvious misstep has been not to engage JC2 in previous games. Now, out of the blue, he may call on JC2 to play big against the 2nd best team in the league. Is this mission impossible after being frozen on the bench? We shall see
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
6:37 pm
slimjr
yeah PP is a good SF..Marvin could easily put up those numbers if the offense ran thru him…Like i said to big,strong and skilled to be held down any more..just ask the Gm for the Bucks who almost took him over Bogut….if Marvin took as many shots as Josh he would easily average 20 ppg….I hate that Marvin came to this weak a#$ franchise…hell, most of you really think Al is a center..i want the hawks to trade him just so he could blossom and you would understand what im saying about JJ…that he is the problem…
gator
If knight would have hired the right coach we would all be looking at banners at Philips..Woodson was terrible..drew is better offensily but he still refuses to play a center…
J.J.M.
December 16th, 2010
6:37 pm
no point in watching this
lewis
December 16th, 2010
6:37 pm
hawks fans want jordan crawford to be the second coming of d-wade
The Truth
December 16th, 2010
6:38 pm
*a team can never have too many scorers
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 16th, 2010
6:45 pm
IS IT ME OR DOES IT SEEM LIKE EVERYTIME THE HAWKS PLAY, SOMEBODY ON THE OPPOSING TEAM HAS A CAREER NIGHT…LETS SEE..GLEN DAVIS WILL SUPRISING SCORE ABOUT 25 PTS AND GRAB 8 REBOUNDS AS THE CELTICS WILL BEAT THE HAWKS…HOPEFULLY IM WRONG, BUT I PREDICTED THEIR LOSS IN DETROIT AS WELL…ANYWAYS, GO HAWKS !!! PROVE ME WRONG FOR CRYING OUT LOUD !!!
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 16th, 2010
6:47 pm
OH YEAH WHY IS KEVIN LOVE PUTTING UP BETTER STATS THAN HORFORD ?? AL HORFORD ISNT BEING UTILIZED THE RIGHT WAY…..I WANTED TO AVOID SAYING THIS BUT I GIVE UP….FIRE LD FIRE LD FIRE LD FIRE LD !!!!
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 16th, 2010
6:48 pm
ONE MORE TIME TO MAKE MYSELF CLEAR….FIRE LARRY DREW !!!
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 16th, 2010
6:51 pm
FORGIVE ME FOR TAKING UP SPACE..I’M TOO PASSIONATE…PREDICTION OF THE NIGHT…MARVIN WILLIAMS WILL DUNK ON SOMEONE AND THEN FALL AND SPRAIN HIS ANKLE IN THE PROCESS…THE DUCK WILL GO QUACK
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
6:55 pm
Joe and Jamal are out for the Hawks; Rondo and Shaq are out for the Celtics. The difference is that the Celtics actually have depth on their roster, whereas the Hawks try to make do with mostly scrubs off the bench.
I’ll be pleasantly surprised if the Hawks lose by less than 25.
I hope JC2 gets meaningful minutes in this one, though. No reason why Mo Evans should play the majority of the vacated minutes at SG, considering his lackluster play recently.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
6:57 pm
“But since you are Marvin’s only fan on these blogs I will give you credit for being that one lone voice kissing his huge kaboose..”
In fairness, the way Marvin walks he may have just slipped and had his lips land on Marvin’s caboose by accident.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
6:59 pm
“hawks fans want jordan crawford to be the second coming of d-wade”
I think we’ll settle for him being the second coming of Jamal Crawford.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
7:02 pm
“OH YEAH WHY IS KEVIN LOVE PUTTING UP BETTER STATS THAN HORFORD ??”
Good players on bad teams regularly put up bigger numbers than they would on good teams, because those teams don’t have other options available. Love is putting up bigger scoring averages than Horford, but he also takes way more shots and converts them at a much less efficient rate.
northcyde
December 16th, 2010
7:07 pm
With both Rondo and Shaq out, this becomes a more even game, even if we don’t have our two top guns JJ and Jamal.
Marvin will be forced to be part of the action tonight, unless Smith or Horford decide that they must take 20 shots apiece ( which I don’t think should happen ).
I see a 5 – 13 FG . . 3 – 4 FT . . 1 – 3 3FG game out of Marvin tonight. So that’s 14 pts.
Remember folks. Marvin was never completely useless, until Flip and then Jamal came in and took shots and minutes away from him.
I doubt very seriously if Drew is going to play Jordan or Teague extended minutes tonight. Teague may play 15+ minutes, but Jordan may not see more than 10 minutes, unless he’s on fire from the get-go.
The man tonight has to be Mike Bibby. He has to be the shotmaker. If he outplays Nate, we’ll have a good shot to win this game, according to hoopsstats.com
When Bibby plays 25+ minutes in a game, he has posted better efficiency numbers than the opposing PG on 9 occasions.
Our record in those 9 games . . . . 8 – 1
Use that same parameter for Marvin, and he has only outplayed the opposing SF 4 times.
But we’ve won all 4 games.
{MAC-Town Georgia 478}
December 16th, 2010
7:12 pm
I am VERY eager to see how our offense looks without Joe and Jamal. That would make it appear that ball movement should be greater tonight, but I dont know. We’ll learn alot about Josh tonight. Without both of our top offensive players, this seems like a perfect chance for Josh to try and “do too much”
We’ll be doomed if that happens.
hawkfan
December 16th, 2010
7:13 pm
hawks just need to put on their track shoes and just run run run until they can’t run anymore and see what happens, at this point we have nothing to lose and just make as many fastbreak points as we can to leave the c’s gasping for air, i think that’s the only shot we have now
Blast
December 16th, 2010
7:19 pm
Hate the fact that this game is on TNT and Hawks so depleted. Just not looking forward to hearing Kenny Smith’s condescending tone when he talks about Hawks. Not looking forward to this game at all.
northcyde
December 16th, 2010
7:30 pm
And don’t be surprised if Zaza gets more burn than Collins in this game. This is the type of matchup I was talking about the other day conerning Collins.
He’s facing a center who is basically a garbageman, not a scorer. Collins’ strength is not grabbing rebounds. So if Boston is killing us early on the boards, Drew can’t stick with Collins. He’s either going to have to get Zaza in the game, or move Horford and Smith back to their regular positions.
And honestly, KG may be a tougher matchup tonight for Al, than that young center. Drew has to recognize quickly which matchup is more favorable for Al.
This is a good game to measure the leadership abilities of Horford and Smith. We need 10+ rebounds out of them, more than we need 20+ points. LOL . . if we can get 20+ pts and 10+ rebs, that’ll be the best outcome. But rebounds are more important than points tonight.
This will be a low scoring game, probably in the mid to high 80s. Instead of just predicting us to win or lose, I’ll say that the first team to 85 . . wins the game.
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
7:31 pm
north clyde
good point about marvin..he was great the year before Jamal came here..just not enough shots to go around..i dont care who is at Sf
Ken Strickland
December 16th, 2010
7:32 pm
I don’t know if I’ve seen as many negative minded fans as I’ve seen on these blogs. The idea that the Hawks don’t have a chance to win tonight because JJ and Jamal are missing says a lot. If we play the type of DEF we’re capable of, we can definitely win this gm.
They’re weak in the middle, in transition DEF, short on their bench, and slow. Horford is good enough to neutralize, or even out perform KG. Smoove is good enough to create some serious problems for PPierce, and possibly neutralize him. I think it’ll be a wash at center, so it appears the key to us winning this gm will be how well our guards measure up to their guards.
The other key to us winning this gm will boil down to the performances of JTeague, JPowell and Zaza off the bench? With the NEGATIVE MINDED, GLASS HALF EMPTY ATTITUDES AND MENTALITIES some of you possess, I wonder why you even bother to post comments, or even watch the gm. I CERTAINLY WOULDN’T WANT SOME OF YOU AS MY TEAMMATE.
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
7:34 pm
With Rondo out, we can win:
Josh = Paul Pierce
Al = KG
Ray will crush Marvin, unless Marvin learned how to post up in the NBA yesterday. He might have, you never know. Stranger things have happened.
Nate will kill Bibby, but Teague and JC2 may help.
I like our bench better. Why? Because I think JT, JC2, Wilkens, Mo’, and Powell bring alot to the table in a game like this. Maybe even ZaZa and Etan. I say we have a shot unless we get down on ourselves.
EmirS.
December 16th, 2010
7:35 pm
Gotta agree with The Truth,
Questioning LD’s take on this game as well. Jordan has rarely seen playing time…and now you want to put him under the pressure of playing against the best team in the leauge (my opinion). Jordan has “somewhat” proven to be a scorer, but without having seen minutes since late November, can we honestly ask him to step up?
drmaryb (*_*)
December 16th, 2010
7:37 pm
Pray!
Prayer Works. I pray the Hawks show up and compete. Leave that defeatist attitude at home. We should see a heavy dose of Jordan and Teague tonight and I hope they come to play and be prepared to win.
David & Goliath
Dragon Slayers
Gnats and Flies
Small Ball
Run the Elephant out of the gym
All the cliche’s we can think of has to be our game plan tonight. Let Teague run straight to the cup and drop it in or pass it to the wings. Tell Josh to run the lanes and not try to play PG tonight. We need him playing INSIDE with Al all night long. We can win this game, but not in a half court set. Swarm to the ball on defense like gnats and flies on an elephant’s azz.
Let’s Go Hawks!
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
7:44 pm
ATL fans, we also need to understand that signing Damien Wilkens was a very significant move. I was not one of the “we need 1 more wing” bloggers over the summer. I am now converted. We def. needed 1 more experience wing who was a very good defensive presence. We got one in Damien.
If we had a better backup C than ZaZa, say Dampier or Shaq, and a quicker PG than Bibby, I would say look out! EC Finals or better a possibly. But we still don’t have those 2 missing pieces.
But if ZaZa or somebody big catches fire off the bench, and Teague develops, again I say “Watch out, the Hawks are coming!”
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
7:46 pm
Excuse all of the misspellings in the last post by me.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
7:57 pm
I am almost ready to start hating on Bibby like I do Marvin
Unfortunately, hitting contested shots does not happen in the Playoffs. Bibby may hit shots at a high percentage, but they are pretty much all contested or close to being so. Even if they were wide open, he will not do this in the playoffs. It’s time he got in shape and actually got into the lane or played some semblance of DEFENSE.
I still have not received an explanation on how exactly he uses his body size to his advantage. He can’t post up players and has no speed at all
drmaryb (*_*)
December 16th, 2010
8:01 pm
Speed Kills!
Speed Ball tonight, limit turnovers. I would like to see Teague play fast like John Wall, Ishmael Smith and Steve Nash. He has the jets and play selfish going to the cup to get us going. JC2 is fast too.
Let’s Run them old legs tired tonight. Run like Golden State did with Captain Jack. We can win this..but, the Hawks have to believe it.
I’m on board tonight for a win!
Blast
December 16th, 2010
8:04 pm
I really want to see how the refs call this game. Watch them burn Hawks with no calls as usual.