Atlanta Hawks at Celtics: Can they do it without J.J. and Jamal?
Boston–Jamal is out with a sore back. J.J. is back in Atlanta.
Is there any chance the Hawks can go back home with a W?
Under the best circumstances, it would be difficult for the Hawks to do it; it will be dang tough while missing an All-Star and Sixth Man Award winner. Then again, somehow win this one and it really would mean redemption for that Nov. 22 surrender at Philips.
On Boston’s side, Rondo says he’s in despite a balky ankle. (Update: Celtics GM Danny Ainge says Rondo to miss “weeks” with injury.) Shaq says he’s out. Even if Shaq plays, L.D. said plans to send out the big lineup with Twin at center.
“I want to play Al at the four,” Drew said. “The rookie [Semih Erden] is real long. I like the matchup better moving Smoove to three and Marvin to two; it gives us an advantage on the offensive end. We will match up Smoove on Pierce [to] put a little length on him to see if that bothers him. We will try to do some thing offensively with Allen having to defend Marvin. See if we can create an advantage size-wise with that.”
Maybe the Celtics will be sapped after that hard-fought W at Madison Square Garden last night. Perhaps the Hawks will chapped by that ugly L at Detroit and motivated to save face against the C’s. Of course Boston beat down the Hawks on a back-to-back last time with energy ball Nate Robinson doing the damage early.
The Celtics did show some vulnerability last night. It was shocking to see the Knicks working the pick-and-roll so easily. Doc noted he couldn’t put KG or Big Baby on Amar’e too often because the power rotation is thin without Shaq, J. O’Neal and Perkins. Can the Hawks take advantage, too? Note that the Knicks only have two Ls since Nov. 16, to the Celtics and Hawks.
Granted, the Hawks don’t have Amar’e pogo sticking as their roll man but Al is deadly on the pick-and-pop and Smoove is a load when he gets the ball going to the rim. Together, they are like a composite Amar’e. Gallinari was a weapon for the Knicks–ESPN talker Jeff Van Gundy noted that the C’s couldn’t “short close” on him at the 3-point line because he’s so big he can shoot over them, and once they closed hard Gallinari went by them to the hole. Dare I say Smoove should try to do the same if he makes the first couple (inevitable) 3-pointers he launches?
The Knicks did enough to get some respect from the Celtics, who aren’t the types to give it easily:
“They test our defense,” Pierce said. “There are few teams in the NBA that test our defense. That’s one of them because they go small ball and they put four shooters on the court. Then when you got a big man who’s an elite scorer in this league, who can shoot from everywhere, they’re a tough guard.”
“I’ll say one thing about the Knicks, they’re confidence is obviously through the roof,” Garnett said. “Definitely a team to reckon with.”
Obviously L.D. watched Knicks-Celtics, too, and he noticed some things. He said the Hawks would run a lot of pick-and-rolls and also try to run with Teague and JC2 getting some burn looking to do both.
“They struggled with [the pick-and-roll],” L.D. said. “New York, they picked up the pace, too. In that fourth quarter a few times Boston scored and New York got the ball out, came right back down and scored. It’s that type of tempo we have had success [with] in the past playing at that pace. At the same time, you have got to be smart coming down and not jacking up that ill-advised shots, especially on the road.”
MC
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782 comments Add your comment
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:56 pm
“Marvin is easily a top 5 sf in the NBA….”
LBJ
Carmelo
Durant
C.Butler
G. Wallace
and that’s leaving out like 20 others
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2010
10:56 pm
Je-Je, Marvin broke a sweat tonight, maybe one of our remaining captains who took the night off should be expected to play well tomorrow.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
10:56 pm
Najeh, I have to disagree. Josh was pretty much awful the entire night. There were at least two instances where he let himself get lost on screens and Ray Allen knocked down 3’s because of it. Josh just played lazy and spent most of the time whinning to the refs.
Outside of a couple of nice passes early, he was a waste. Happens too often to that guy. He needs to get his head on straight. Too much talent. He’s better than that.
darrell starks
December 16th, 2010
10:57 pm
MARVIN, JAMAL, TEAGUE AND 1ST FOR BIEDRINS, ELLIS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
cp
December 16th, 2010
10:57 pm
The Celts were not toying with the Hawks.
JSS
December 16th, 2010
10:57 pm
@ Astro Joe…
Wasn’t Dr. Andrews saying this (the Johnson elbow) has been a long term thing?
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
10:57 pm
Astro, make all the excuses for him you want. Joe Johnson would not have won any of these games for the Hawks. That’s why he is a nonfactor. Lose with him. Lose without him.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:58 pm
We let Erden go 5-6
Pathetic
Oldatl
December 16th, 2010
10:58 pm
We need better players. How long will the Hawks go on without a solid center and have over 4 or more players who play the same position. Every other team are upgrading except us.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
10:59 pm
“The only thing holding Marvin back is the hawks…if you gave Marvin Joe’s shot attempts, he would be a lot more productive than joe..we drafted him #2 but decided Joe was the man….Marvin is easily a top 5 sf in the NBA….”
Is there a Dept. of Unintentional Comedy?
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:59 pm
Section 303
“Astro, make all the excuses for him you want. Joe Johnson would not have won any of these games for the Hawks. That’s why he is a nonfactor. Lose with him. Lose without him.”
Are you crazy?? You’d rather see JC2/Mo out there than Joe?
Quit hating on the guy. So he is not as good as Kobe or Wade. He’s still a top 3-4 SG when healthy. Maybe in a system like LD’s where the offense is more facilitated he can actually show up in the playoffs
Wabe
December 16th, 2010
11:00 pm
Section303,
Not moral victories. But, realistically, do you expect the Hawks to win a game @ Boston – whose currently playing some of the best basketball in the league – minus your top 2 scorers?
I’m not happy they loss, but I’m not as distraught as some of the others here seem to be.
Mainly because, I never expected them to win tonight.
I don’t care if Boston is minus Rondo and they’re coming off a back to back.
They’re capable of winning minus Rondo because unlike the Hawks, they’ve got real depth. They still had the Big 3 healthy and good to go.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
11:01 pm
JeJe, my point is this: name me the game we would have won had Joe played. I’ll wait for your answer.
darrell starks
December 16th, 2010
11:01 pm
STARTE MONTA, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, BIEDRINS
BENCH BIBBY, MOE, DAMIEN, POWELL, ZAZA
RESERVE JC2, COLLINS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
11:02 pm
In fairness, Marvin did play a very good game tonight. Props to him.
But like I said the last time he played a good game, I’m over him. I’m done getting suckered in by his so-called potential. Let’s see him play like this for five games in a row, and maybe I’ll pay attention. Until then no.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
11:03 pm
Wabe, I didn’t think they would win, either. I just don’t want to hear them patting themselves on the back for keeping the game kind of close. They always do that after games like tonight and then go onto the next game and get killed. I’m predicting a loss tomorrow.
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
11:05 pm
JeJe
I told you, If the Hawks would go to Marvin and run plays for marvin this is what you would get every night..His shot is sweet, he has handles,just the total package….LBJ,Mello,Durant are all better but if Marvin was given an oppurtunity to score , he would produce and probaly be the 4th best sf..i would take Marvin over butler because he is bigger and his shot is better..and unlike Joe, it does not take Marvin 25 shots to get 26 points..Nice stroke, big athletic, plays tough d…..etc..etc..
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
11:08 pm
Rick Sund, your team wheels are falling off. This is 85% the “Genius” Billy Knighs’s team! You better shop Marvin,Bibby and Josh if you got backbone…The Hawks really do miss Joe Johnson but he is not Kobe, he is not going to save this team as it slides backwards to mediocrity fast! 8th seed? Maybe? You can’t continue to put undersized Al, Josh”I am the next Magic Johnson, but don’t know how to shoot a jumpshot and the “invisible man” Williams who just shot his entire load for the next 12 to 15 games on the floor tonight and expect wins against the elites.These three are now going to be called the 3 stooges…Your front line looks like “D” league material out there…..WOW……Rick your new name will be Billy knight JR real soon.. Keep up the lousy work. Your name is changing on the blogs real soon….
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2010
11:10 pm
JSS, Joe said that he has had problems with his elbow “on and off” since last year. It is the kind of injury (reportedly) that guys can “deal with” until the pain is too severe and it must be addressed. I’ve not read any reports about the severity of the injury from the doctor (that would actually be against federal law to share Joe’s medical info). But if it was anything like what pitchers endure, he probably was hurting for a while.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
11:10 pm
It was not a bad pick, I’m just going to assume that you are going out of your way to raze the people who read/post on here. There is no way you belive anything you just wrote.
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
11:10 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
If the hawks run plays for Marvin, tonights game is an example of what his numbers would look like…Just face it this Joe Johnson’s team..not Marvin…
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
11:11 pm
Astro, good. I hope it hurt him badly.
Rev in Tampa
December 16th, 2010
11:11 pm
I like Coach Drew. He is doing a fine job as a rookie head coach, but I would like him to take a crash coarse on coaching the last five minutes of a game.
I also felt like he needed to have an explosion toward the refs tonight. If he’s not going to let Josh, etc. mouth off to refs then he has to do it. If he is not going to call out the refs, then Josh, Bibby, etc. will feel like they need to.
cp
December 16th, 2010
11:11 pm
Wabe I agree with you about Mo. I have been complaining about him for a while now.I said blogs back that Damien and JC2 should play ahead of him. Put Mo in a suit. The guys on the bench looked better without Jamal especially Teague.
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
11:14 pm
Ref’s cant help Josh considerable lack of offensive skills!! He never learned them and it is to late for him.He’s already wired the way he is. Just a dunker tha’ts it…
Elliot
December 16th, 2010
11:14 pm
Larry Drew is an absolute disgrace as a coach and is in no position to coach a professional basketball team. I have played in and watched basketball for many, many year, and watched many, many different teams, and I can tell you that L.D. looks lost. He is doing some of the worst coaching I have ever seen at the pro level. So many things are wrong with what he does that I could write a novel on it. The Hawks are not going to improve and reach their true potential with him as the head coach. This team desperately needs a change, and the main change that is needed is in the coaching staff. Drew needs to go. He clearly wasn’t ready for this job. For the personnel that the team has on the floor, this team is definitely underachieving, and although the players are not without fault, the majority of the blame goes on the coach in this case, without a doubt.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
11:14 pm
Rev, I think there is truth to what you’re saying. Refs were sticking it to the Hawks most of the night. I thought Josh drew a charge on Pierce that wasn’t called. Plus, the time he attacked the hoop, got fouled twice, and still no call. Hawks get nothing from officials. That will never change.
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
11:15 pm
Section 303
Wow…Im talking about a guy who was considered for the # 1 pick..im as serious as i can be….but i have never seen a guy drafted this high and never really given a chance to shine..He has a nice stroke and he is athletic..the hawks did Acie Law the same way but he went 12th….Whats the point of being the #2 pick in the draft and standing in a corner wacthing joe Max dribble for 19 seconds in one spot…it seems like people on this blog would rather blame marvin instead of blaming Joe Max…
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
11:15 pm
Section 303, seriously, it’s time to get over it dude. It’s been seven months since he made that comment. At this point, for you to be p-ssed at Joe over that — especially when nearly every other pro athlete feels the exact same way and are just smart enough not to say it — is kind of pathetic. Whether you like him or not, in all likelihood he’s going to be here for the next six years. I have a hard time seeing how you can continue to be a fan of this team and hate its franchise player that much at the same time. You’re going to drive yourself insane. For your own sanity’s sake, learn to forgive him or find a new team.
Rufus1
December 16th, 2010
11:19 pm
@NORTHCYDE
“don’t think it was a coincidence that Teague had a good game with the absence of Crawford. He got to dictate the offense with Jamal gone, and looked more for his offense.”
I agree 100%
We are going nowhere with Bibby as the PG and Jamal dominating the ball…
They need to either make teague the starter or trade Jamal.
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
11:19 pm
Only the Hawks would hire the assistant coach who worked for the Head coach who was let go last season after his team was dismantle in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Rick Sund= Billy Knight Jr..
drmaryb (*_*)
December 16th, 2010
11:19 pm
Toys R Us!
Man, that 1st half, the Celtics was just playing with us. They came out and measured to see how hard they would have to work before putting us away.
That’s what professional teams do. They do only what they have to, to win.
They don’t waste energy in a 82 Game season. There was NEVER a doubt that they would win this game from their perspective.
We got played!
But, I did see some good things and bad things tonight. Our Captains never showed up to play though. Kudos to the bench.
Coach Drew nor Phil Jackson would win with all these scrubs on this team!
See Sund!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
11:21 pm
“i have never seen a guy drafted this high and never really given a chance to shine.”
Marvin has started 312 games in his career. How is that ANYTHING like what the Hawks did to Acie Law and are doing to Jeff Teague? The fact that he has started that many games, played over 30 minutes per game in every season since his rookie year, and STILL can’t find a way to contribute consistently just tells me that he is one dimensional. Either he is scoring or he is a complete liability, and more often than not he is a liability.
Yeah, he had a nice game tonight. But good players, and especially good players who are picked high in the lottery, find a way to impact the game in ways beyond scoring. For crying out loud, Smoove wasn’t even a lottery pick and he finds a way to impact the game positively in multiple ways. So does Joe, and so does Horford. At this point I think most of us are over the fact that he was picked #2. All we ask is that he do the little things — play solid D, knock down open shots when he gets them, don’t turn the ball over, crash the boards (especially the offensive boards), etc. None of that has anything to do with his involvement in the offense.
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
11:23 pm
Chris Paul and Darren Williams are far superior players then Marvin and should have be drafted by the Hawks at the time knowing we needed a legit point guard since Mookie Blaylock retired!! For the next ten years the Hawks could have been contenders instead of pretenders….
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
11:25 pm
And the idea that Marvin is being held back by Iso-Joe doesn’t hold water either. For one thing, Iso-Joe didn’t stop Smoove and Al from developing into All-Star caliber players. And also, the Hawks don’t run an isolation offense anymore. If Iso-Joe was a valid excuse the last few years, it damn sure isn’t this year.
Steve W
December 16th, 2010
11:26 pm
drmaryb,
Please do not ever compare Coach Drew to Phil Jackson or any other Hall-of-Fame level coach. If Mike Woodson, with his very limited philosophy was able to get the Hawks to win 53 games, then it’s almost a guarantee that Phil Jackson would have the Hawks as a top-5 team every year. They’d be almost guaranteed at least 50 wins each season, even with injuries. The players are not perfect, but this team is loaded with talent. Coach Drew is a bad coach, plain and simple. He has no idea how to use his players effectively. It’s amazing how much better players look when they get the right coach and play to their strengths. You’d be surprised.
uga-brave
December 16th, 2010
11:27 pm
najeh, josh is a coach killer.
the guy aint a great defender.
great defenders deny the ball.
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
11:29 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
No way I agree with
“For crying out loud, Smoove wasn’t even a lottery pick and he finds a way to impact the game positively in multiple ways. So does Joe, and so does Horford.”
If Al is not hitting jumpers he does not help you really at all, not really a great rebounder..I never really seen Joe Max shut down a good sg ..I must be wacthing the wrong game, because i clearly see Marvin as our best on the ball defender on the team, and i clearly have seen Marvin standing in the same corner for the first 5 years of his career due to Woodys iso Joe offense…Maybe its time for a trade..i just hate seeing a talented player going to waste like he is in Atl…He averages like 7 shots a game..this is Joe Max team
uga-brave
December 16th, 2010
11:29 pm
josh lets everything come in and tries to block it.
how about off the ball defense?
how about trying to deny the ball into the post?
Rufus1
December 16th, 2010
11:31 pm
PF 24mil 9pts and 11rbs….I would atleast expect a decent defensive effort. I never question the defensive effort Marvin gives. I don’t care about the 26pts, he is a 7mil players and he will have some of these nights. My Allstar center and my 12mil power forward didn’t even give a solid defensive effort…THAT IS WHY WE LOST!!!!!
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
11:32 pm
It was not a bad pick
Is Marvin your boy or somethin? You sure like kissin his kaboose..He gonna hook you up with floor seats?
uga-brave
December 16th, 2010
11:34 pm
najeeh,
smoove could care less about playing off the ball defense.
he wants to block shots.
if you really want to watch someone that denys the ball go back and watch what rodman did.
he fronted players. then he was quick enough.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
11:35 pm
“If Al is not hitting jumpers he does not help you really at all, not really a great rebounder..I never really seen Joe Max shut down a good sg ..I must be wacthing the wrong game”
Wow. Yeah, you are watching the wrong game. Maybe you are talking about Al Harrington and Joe Smith.
O'Brien
December 16th, 2010
11:36 pm
Good game from Marvin tonight. I just wish we could get this from him more often (like in the Detroit game).
Teague played well. But I agree with AJ’s point on the other blog. teague played well because there was no JJ and no Jamal, and Teague got to play lead guard.
Losing by 12 on the road to the C’s w/o JJ and Jamal is not bad. Unfortunately, a loss is a loss, and now we play in Charlotte tomorrow.
Hawks need to regroup.
uga-brave
December 16th, 2010
11:37 pm
our best player has zero right hand. plus he is out of shape.
then again he has zero game with his back to the basket.
Harpie
December 16th, 2010
11:39 pm
Josh Smith is an idiot, and so is Drew!
Rufus1
December 16th, 2010
11:40 pm
@Najeh Davenpoop
Every player can’t thrive in an ISO offense….so players need plays run for them. Ray Allen had opts in the 1st half. they did ask him to go one-on-one, they ran plays for him.
uga-brave
December 16th, 2010
11:41 pm
this entire team should be built around joe, crawford, marvin.
yeah marvin is a player.
josh will never be a player on this team.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
11:41 pm
It was not a bad pick, no way. You do not really think any of this. You’re a fraud. I’m calling it right now.
To humor you a bit…I’ll give you that Marvin was not the worst pick in the Billy Knight era. That honor is for Sheldon Williams (how is that piece of crap still in the league?). But, Marvin has been a starter for years. He has about 4-5 good games a year. No more.
Willing to bet that Marvin scores less than 10-pts tomorrow night.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
11:42 pm
“josh is a coach killer.
the guy aint a great defender.
great defenders deny the ball.”
First of all, “coach killer” is one of the five dumbest phrases in sports. I remember when Jim Moron Sr. called Mike Vick a “coach killer” because Jim Moron Jr. was too stupid to figure out how to use him. It is a meaningless phrase meant to take the blame off an inadequate coach.
Secondly, Smoove does gamble more than he should, but it doesn’t change the fact that he has a huge defensive impact on the game, which is plainly visible in most games when he exits. He’s the guy who creates turnovers and fast break opportunities for this team, and he’s the guy who allows players like Bibby and Jamal to not be complete liabilities since they can funnel players in to him. I’m willing to live with some of his man to man defensive lapses as long as he continues to create the chaos he does in passing lanes and by altering shots (which he did several times in the first half today even as his shots weren’t falling).