Atlanta Hawks at Celtics: Can they do it without J.J. and Jamal?
Boston–Jamal is out with a sore back. J.J. is back in Atlanta.
Is there any chance the Hawks can go back home with a W?
Under the best circumstances, it would be difficult for the Hawks to do it; it will be dang tough while missing an All-Star and Sixth Man Award winner. Then again, somehow win this one and it really would mean redemption for that Nov. 22 surrender at Philips.
On Boston’s side, Rondo says he’s in despite a balky ankle. (Update: Celtics GM Danny Ainge says Rondo to miss “weeks” with injury.) Shaq says he’s out. Even if Shaq plays, L.D. said plans to send out the big lineup with Twin at center.
“I want to play Al at the four,” Drew said. “The rookie [Semih Erden] is real long. I like the matchup better moving Smoove to three and Marvin to two; it gives us an advantage on the offensive end. We will match up Smoove on Pierce [to] put a little length on him to see if that bothers him. We will try to do some thing offensively with Allen having to defend Marvin. See if we can create an advantage size-wise with that.”
Maybe the Celtics will be sapped after that hard-fought W at Madison Square Garden last night. Perhaps the Hawks will chapped by that ugly L at Detroit and motivated to save face against the C’s. Of course Boston beat down the Hawks on a back-to-back last time with energy ball Nate Robinson doing the damage early.
The Celtics did show some vulnerability last night. It was shocking to see the Knicks working the pick-and-roll so easily. Doc noted he couldn’t put KG or Big Baby on Amar’e too often because the power rotation is thin without Shaq, J. O’Neal and Perkins. Can the Hawks take advantage, too? Note that the Knicks only have two Ls since Nov. 16, to the Celtics and Hawks.
Granted, the Hawks don’t have Amar’e pogo sticking as their roll man but Al is deadly on the pick-and-pop and Smoove is a load when he gets the ball going to the rim. Together, they are like a composite Amar’e. Gallinari was a weapon for the Knicks–ESPN talker Jeff Van Gundy noted that the C’s couldn’t “short close” on him at the 3-point line because he’s so big he can shoot over them, and once they closed hard Gallinari went by them to the hole. Dare I say Smoove should try to do the same if he makes the first couple (inevitable) 3-pointers he launches?
The Knicks did enough to get some respect from the Celtics, who aren’t the types to give it easily:
“They test our defense,” Pierce said. “There are few teams in the NBA that test our defense. That’s one of them because they go small ball and they put four shooters on the court. Then when you got a big man who’s an elite scorer in this league, who can shoot from everywhere, they’re a tough guard.”
“I’ll say one thing about the Knicks, they’re confidence is obviously through the roof,” Garnett said. “Definitely a team to reckon with.”
Obviously L.D. watched Knicks-Celtics, too, and he noticed some things. He said the Hawks would run a lot of pick-and-rolls and also try to run with Teague and JC2 getting some burn looking to do both.
“They struggled with [the pick-and-roll],” L.D. said. “New York, they picked up the pace, too. In that fourth quarter a few times Boston scored and New York got the ball out, came right back down and scored. It’s that type of tempo we have had success [with] in the past playing at that pace. At the same time, you have got to be smart coming down and not jacking up that ill-advised shots, especially on the road.”
MC
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782 comments Add your comment
Sautee
December 16th, 2010
10:30 pm
Say Goodnight Gracie.
cp
December 16th, 2010
10:30 pm
Well they played hard but only one starter showed up and LD had some questionable lineups out there
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
10:31 pm
Ok now it’s over
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:31 pm
Davis always hits these uncontested shots + against us
STOP LEAVING PLAYERS OPEN
LionHearted
December 16th, 2010
10:31 pm
LD gets an F for this game.
Josh gets an F for this game
Hawks vs Celtics
December 16th, 2010
10:31 pm
so Josh and Al getting out played by … Marvin???? I mean really? Even Zaza has better numbers!
N.D.T.K.A.
December 16th, 2010
10:31 pm
Surprise,Marvin putting in work tonight. KG got in Al Horford’s head in the third quarter. Josh had a bad night.
It is amazing how the TNT commentators notice Rondo and Shaq are out for Boston, but don’t hardly mention that our #1 guy in Joe and SMOY for us J. Crawford aren’t playing. Amazing!
LionHearted
December 16th, 2010
10:31 pm
How is Marvin gonna outshine all the otha starters?
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
10:31 pm
cp – Has to do with his inflexible rotations regarding fouls.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:32 pm
1) How the hell did Boston make all those shots in the 3rd?
2) Why is every player uncontested on every shot?
DAMNIT
Jae Evolution
December 16th, 2010
10:32 pm
A positive from this game is that Marvin and Teague played absolutely GREAT, who would’ve thought Marvin would show up but Al and Josh wouldn’t.
It almost makes me want to laugh how these three can never play great on the same night.
J from the A
December 16th, 2010
10:32 pm
Well, Marvin showed up. Good for him. Teague had a decent showing. Too bad Smoove was having an off night (to put it lightly) on the offensive end.
YoDaddy
December 16th, 2010
10:32 pm
The defense in the 4th was unacceptable but that’s been the story the past 3 games.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:34 pm
Does it take 2 top players on your team being out for Marvin to play like this?
Wabe
December 16th, 2010
10:35 pm
Man, Marvin Williams, if you could ever get consistent and play with the stones you played with tonight every night…
You’d be decent.
But you can’t play that “now you see it…now you don’t…” bullstuff…
J from the A
December 16th, 2010
10:35 pm
I wouldn’t go so far as to give Josh an ‘F’ though. When matched up w/ Pierce, he did a pretty solid job shutting him down. (Almost all of Pierce’s FG occurred when someone other Josh was guarding him.)
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:35 pm
BOX OUT
GOD DAMN
EmirS.
December 16th, 2010
10:36 pm
Well,
Good night guys. Really disappointed and frustrated. You guys can claim after this game, that folks are stepping up. But we all know its a fluke. Marvin wont play this well for weeks to come. Teague will be bashed for having 5 turnovers and he wont have this good of a game for a while either. It’s really plain and simple and quite clear now. We are nothing without our “core”. Igniting on all cylinders. We might win another 2 or 3 games against good teams beore JJ comes back, but we are trash without him. He knows that, Sund knows that, Hawks know that, and we know that. Time to look at this situation realistically. And stop trying to avoid it with side stats.
Also, dont dare any of you throw that “negative” and “glass half empty BS” at me. Open up your eyes.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:36 pm
We lose by 12 without Joe and Jamal and a bottom 5 game of Smoove’s career. Damnit.
Must win tomorrow
Melvin
December 16th, 2010
10:37 pm
Loadup the plane and get the hell out of Boston…
Samuel
December 16th, 2010
10:37 pm
Has Teague made a shot beyond 10 feet all year? He had a good little run there in the 2nd. We should have ridden him while it lasted. I still think J Crawford can help. He had some tough “in and out” misses tonight. Celtics look good.
Wabe
December 16th, 2010
10:37 pm
I think some of yall need to remember…
You’re playing the best team in the East.
Sautee
December 16th, 2010
10:38 pm
Haven’t seen both Josh and Al play this badly since the Orlando debacle.
Dang, that stunk. Props to the bench for keeping us in the game.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:39 pm
We need CONSISTENT efforts from Marvin, Teague, and ZaZa.
Eastern Conference sucks. We can get that #4 seed and maybe #3 if ORL keeps playing like garbage.
We gotta get healthy and start playing defense and BOXING out though
IDK wtf LD talks about in practice
HOLD A PLAYERS-ONLY MEETING TOMORROW OR RIGHT NOW
tom
December 16th, 2010
10:39 pm
man what a wasted effort by marvin and teague……this team is maddening
cp
December 16th, 2010
10:41 pm
I have been critical of Marvin but dude showed up tonight when we needed him.. Teague also came to play.. The whole bench played well besides Mo. The starters were terrible and LD had some bad subs. He came back with Bibby to early at one point and he brought Mo in although Damien had outplayed him. Josh Powell might have the worst hands I have ever seen. Zaza was better than he has been recently but his defense is still terrible. They played hard they just got beat by a better team. Nice to see them not quit when they got down. Josh Smith was brutal this game smh, Collins gave us nothing, Al didn’t do much and Bibby was ehhh
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2010
10:43 pm
That’s 3 out of 4 games lost… so much for not needing a 4-time All-Star.
Samuel
December 16th, 2010
10:45 pm
I think we make the playoffs by “default” this year. Thank God there are some “BAD” teams in the NBA.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
10:45 pm
Astro Joe, you really think that 4-time All Star would have made a difference in any of these games? Maybe they lose by 10 tonight instead of 12? With him or without him they still would have lost 3 of the last 4.
Joe Johnson = complete nonfactor.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:45 pm
This is another example of the TWO FOUL RULE NOT working.
HOW MANY TIMES THIS SEASON has a player on the team FOULED out?
I don’t know the number but less than 3 for sure.
THIS MEANS THAT HORF HAS NOT FOULED OUT MUCH IF AT ALL. I understand benching him so he could play the whole 2nd half, but taking out Damien with 2 fouls? Boston dominated the end of that 2nd quarter
STOP TAKING OUT PLAYERS IN FOUL TROUBLE AND LET THEM PLAY.
I’d rather see Damien foul out in 28 mpg rather than play 16 minutes
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
10:45 pm
Josh is not yet an elite player. He is a very good player who whines and cries when he faces elite competition many times – like Boston and the Magic in the playoffs last year. I wish he would be a little bit more like KG in his professionalism. And Al’s not quite there either as a warrior – but I love his game!
Marvin 26 pts. – Wow!
Teague – 18 Pts. on 8-11 shooting and 4boards, 3asst. and 3 steals. Yes, 4-6 TO’s, but I wish he could learn on the court. I like he and Bibby on the floor together sometimes.
The Celt’s professionalism and experience won out in the end. And to think they got Big Baby in the 2nd round. Just like SA got DeJuan Blair at the 46th pick or something. We’ve got to learn to do that.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 16th, 2010
10:45 pm
Anybody notice when the Hawks get hit in the mouth?
They fold up like a Lawn Chair?
Josh 0-8 WOW!
Josh bricked those two threes to start the game and disappeared like Marvin usually does. Then, when he did go inside he put up some wild shots near the rim and screamed for a foul!
INSIDE Peanut Butter – OUTSIDE Jelly – Josh! He lost that confidence and didn’t do the other things he normally do: like block some shots, rebound and assits his mates. I didn’t hear Al’s name a lot either, did he even show up in the paint to push Big-Baby away from the rims?
I was multi-tasking in the 2nd Half – what happened?
Them Celtics went in the locker room, sniffed some ammonia, re-grouped and came back to put my Hawks away.
What did we do in our locker room, because we were only down one point?
Josh was prolly in there pouting and complaining about he wasn’t getting any fouls called. He did NOT bring his “A” Game nor his “D” Game either.
What did my fellow bloggers see?
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:46 pm
When is the last time this team won a game on National TV in the regular season? Seems like almost a year
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
10:46 pm
I said before the game that I would be pleasantly surprised if the Hawks lost by less than 25. They lost by 12, so I am pleasantly surprised.
Let’s face it — Kenny and Chuck are right. Even with Joe and Jamal, the chances the Hawks go into Boston and win are slim to none. The Hawks are just not that caliber of a team, plain and simple.
Thanks for showing up, Marvin and Teague. Keep doing that for the rest of the season, and the Hawks will win 50 games again.
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
10:46 pm
Say what you want about Rondo and Shaq being out – We still got beat by 3 future HOF’s.
Section 303
December 16th, 2010
10:47 pm
I just don’t want to hear/read about any moral f’ing victories. If the team hadn’t already totally quit on three games this year (Boston, Bucks, Pistons), then maybe it would be justified. But, don’t go lose to the Pistons because of a half assed effort and expect to be patted on the back just because you didn’t get killed by the Celtics.
Celtics were toying with the Hawks the entire night anyways. Nothing to hang your hats on here, guys. Just hope they don’t lose tomorrow.
darrell starks
December 16th, 2010
10:48 pm
Marvin look so good maybe warrior’s will give us monta for marvin lol!!!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
SteveW
December 16th, 2010
10:48 pm
DrmaryB and Najeh – Co-sign to both.
And as I said, with Wilkens, I like our bench. JT, Mo’, Powell, Wilkens, ZaZa are all pretty good bench guys. Not to mention Jamal when he’s healthy.
It was not a bad pick
December 16th, 2010
10:49 pm
The only thing holding Marvin back is the hawks…if you gave Marvin Joe’s shot attempts, he would be a lot more productive than joe..we drafted him #2 but decided Joe was the man….Marvin is easily a top 5 sf in the NBA….
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:49 pm
I really think Damien needs more minutes. Mo should not be playing at all at this point.
Those 2 Reggie Miller pumpfakes Damien did were damn impressive and his defense was solid
Astro Joe
December 16th, 2010
10:50 pm
Section 303, I guess when a guy gets surgery, I figure that he is hurt. I guess I assume that the injury didn’t happen instantaneously… he wasn;t healthy one day and had a “loose body” the next. And lastly, I don’t think coaches would send him to the All-Star game if he were a non-factor whom they don’t scheme to shut down during every contest against the Hawks. Yeah, I think we’re FAR better with Joe than without him (a healthy Joe that is). Funny how Roy gets a pass for being hurt in Portland while some refuse to link Joe’s inability to hit open jumpers to his recent surgery. Whatever.
darrell starks
December 16th, 2010
10:50 pm
Marvin is still young at 24, i just think he need a fresh starte with a team like the warrior’s who is desperate for a SMALL FORWARD.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
December 16th, 2010
10:51 pm
Smoove was not bad on D. He was nightmarishly bad on O. I actually felt like he was playing a little scared of KG.
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:53 pm
We gave up 14 points to Erden and Harangody. Who the hell are these guys?
18 points for Big Baby?
NO player on this team finished with over 3 personal fouls!!!
No one came CLOSE to fouling out. This means that at the end of the 2nd qtr, we should’ve had DAMIEN and MARVIN in there, not clueless JC2
Wabe
December 16th, 2010
10:53 pm
My only knock on Drew…
Mo Evans and Damien Wilkins are the same damn players. But, Damien Wilkins defense is better than Mo Evans.
I understand we don’t have anybody behind Marvin on the wing, but any minutes Mo Evans clocks are a waste of minutes. He doesn’t give you much offensively, and defensively, he’s overrated. I know people were whining on this blog tonight about JC2’s mistakes, but, without much PT, he’s gonna continue to make those mistakes. But, if you groom the kid and get him touched up before playoff time, you’d have another solid option to fall back on off the bench.
I’d much rather see us groom Teague and JC2 and get them polished so we have more of an arsenal when the games really count as opposed to playing bums like Mo Evans throughout the season. You know what you’ll get from Mo throughout the season and at the end of the season when it counts. There really isn’t much room for improvement with this guy. You plug JC2 in, because his ceiling is much higher.
I know JC2 can’t back up Marvin. But, J.Smith has shown this season (not tonight – but for most of this season) that he can spot Marvin minutes at the 3. Give JC2 more court time. JC2 > > > > > Mo Evans.
And, I hope this game showed Drew that Teague needs minutes to polish his game. I also hope it showed him that some of these guys can contribute if we’re not always defering to JJ and Jamal. Guys like Teague and Marvin defer to JJ and Jamal too damn much, and they don’t go as hard when they’re in the game. Work to get that chemistry better when JJ and Jamal return.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 16th, 2010
10:53 pm
Section 303!
Man, YOU still bashing Joe? Man you need a SHRINK for real, Bruh. Joe didn’t play tonight and you blaming him for a LOSS tonight, Joe is in Atlanta, GA tonight and you gonna’ twist your lips just to say if he did play we would have still lost, after we swept Boston last year?
Are YOU effin’ kidding me? Man, just go away and log off that computer until Joe returns so you at least type in reality. Get over it – man!
Geez!
Rev in Tampa
December 16th, 2010
10:54 pm
It was not a bad pick,
Are you Marvin’s mama?
JeJe
December 16th, 2010
10:54 pm
We have too many damn 6″5 players on this team. Just get rid of Mo already.
Offer Marvin and Bibby for Monta Ellis or Mo Williams + X. We need consistency at PG.
Thankfully, Marvin usually plays well vs the Bobcats although I don’t think any of his buds are on that team anymore
northcyde
December 16th, 2010
10:55 pm
@ SteveW
I said that Marvin would have to take 10+ shots and that he would at least get 14 pts. LOL . . no way did I see him going for 26 pts and 5 rebs.
I said that it was more important for Smith and Horford to get 10+ rebounds, than 20+ points. They got neither for the 2nd time in a row vs Boston.
And I said the first team to 85 will win. Boston was the first team to 85 . . and they won.
And by the way, we’re now 1 – 5 when Smith gets 4 rebounds or less. We can’t have him be a non-factor on the boards.
With Marvin and Teague having games like they had, we almost have to consider this a blown opportunity. Those 2 guys may never play that well again. So when they do, we need to make their performances count.
I don’t think it was a coincidence that Teague had a good game with the absence of Crawford. He got to dictate the offense with Jamal gone, and looked more for his offense.
slimjr
December 16th, 2010
10:56 pm
“The only thing holding Marvin back is the hawks…if you gave Marvin Joe’s shot attempts, he would be a lot more productive than joe..we drafted him #2 but decided Joe was the man….Marvin is easily a top 5 sf in the NBA….”
Yeah, Marvin is top 5 SF in the WNBA!