Hawks 116, Nets 101

Its funny, if Smoove can guard the opposing SF where they don’t have career nights, this line up just may work. I know people are concerned with Smoove being on the perimeter in the offense. However, with a motion offense, it allows Horford (who’s great in the mid-range) to spot up at the weak side elbow, and for Smoove to post up on the block. This allows Collins to be in rebound position on other block, and the guards to be spotting up for a kick out.

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KW, Damien has taken ANY minutes Crawford could even think about getting.

Am I the only one who’s disappointed anytime they see Evans come in the game besides Wilkens?

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Evans had a chance to really show and prove he is “undervalued” but he has only shown and proved to be a bum. Wilkins has heart and defensive prowess.

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“what happens if the Hawks keep up this unselfish style and start really playing well without Joe Johnson? It’d be challenging for any player, I’d think, and any team to re-adjust to their lead dog coming back, but I might think it could be especially so here. For one thing, players look to Johnson as that lead dog and so it’ll be a change in mindset for everyone when he returns.”

I hope Joe will be the one making the adjustment to the Hawks’ new found unselfish style, and not the other way around. There are times when the Hawks need Joe to take the lead dog role, but for the most part, they are better off sharing the ball and running it through Smoove and Al.

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I wonder why LD isnt starting Jordan Crawford at SG while JJ is out?? If Jordan cant get it done, THEN he should bench him but dont automatically assume it CANT get it done when he is never given the opportunity! The ONLY 1 thing LD could take a page from Woody is to allow the rookie to ONLY START GAMES WHILE JJ IS OUT and allow HIM his set minutes like Woody use to do with Royal Ivey. This would allow Jordan some MUCH NEEDED playing time cause as it stands now, he is just rotting on the bench for NO GOOD REASON AT ALL!!

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I believe The Hawks will be better when Joe returns because LD will be able to sit Marvin and start JJ instead.Marvin really has me scratching my head.One or two games,he is lights out,and then he disappears.I believe they,The Hawks,are going to have to make some hard decisions regarding MW,JT,and ZZ….I am hoping we can package this group and get something in return.Wilkins,Twin,and E.Thomas are giving more and we really could use a more physical and taller pointguard.I like what CLD is doing with this team.I also believe Jordan’s time will come at the expence of Evans,who is hurt or he is not ready for prime time.

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My memo to Rick Sund: First of all, you are stealing money just like Marvin Williams so it is easy to see why you are in love with him. This team will be much better when both of you take a hike and take the ASG with you. On the other hand, if you can read this is what you should be doing now.

Call Memphis: What will it take to get Marc Gasol? If the answer does not include Smoove, Al, or Joe it gets done bottomline. If rebuffed move on to next question.

Next question: What will it take to get OJ Mayo since he is currently on your bench and I am willing to offer Teague and Zaza for Mayo. If they ask for a sweetner such as a pick tell them you will get back to them but keep this idea in your back pocket because Mayo would be a better project at PG than Teague.

Next, if nothing is done there.

Call Washington: What will it take to get Javal McGee? If the answer does not include Joe, Smoove, Al, Jamal, multiple 1st round picks or taking on Gilbert’s contract the deal get’s done bottomline.

Next, if nothing get’s done.

Call Houston: I will offer you Zaza, and a future 2nd rd pick for Brad Miller.

Next, if nothing get’s done.

Call Cleveland: Offer Zaza and Marvin for Varejao and Moon.

Next, if nothing get’s done and noone will entertain your deals.

Call the Kings and do that deal Teague for Thompson and apologize for not doing it earlier.

Lastly,

I would not do what you do which is hope something great falls in your lap then when it doesn’t tell lies about some magical core that we don’t believe in. I have learned that you make things happen not just let them happen but you are obviously not a winner in mindset. Marvin Williams can’t even dominate at the SG position when he is 6″8 to 6″9 the guy is pretty much useless. Zaza is far more useless than Jason Thompson and we can all see that Jamal is better as backup PG than Teague will ever be. You are a disgrace but I hope you live a long life being a GM/Politician you lying scum.

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I’m really happy the Hawks are playing better and seem to have found a working formula … but these recent events raise the question once again: if the ASG was not going to spend money to upgrade the team in other areas, why re-sign JJ in the first place? Was it the quirks and oddities of the salary structure, a wait-a-while-and-see attitude on roster construction, or just laziness?

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When joe come back.
STARTE BIBBBY, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, COLLINS
BENCH JAMAL, DAMIEN, MARVIN, POWELL, ZAZA
RESERVE TEAGUE OR JC2, MOE
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pinoy hawks I DISAGREE collin should starte every game regardless he free horford 2 play his natural position, and josh 2 dominate SF in the post plus the hawks with a bigger line up look much stronger and better on defense, when marvin starte the team always look sluggish and get off 2 a horrible starte, defense when championship and collins give this team and inside present on defense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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The blog monster got me. I had a good post we’ll let me start off by saying great game josh you are the best player on this team when you man up. JJ shouldn’t have problems but he might cause he is not a lead but gets paid like one. Like rashard in seattle only difference is the hawks don’t have to scrap the team to draft a alpha we have two here already. Only trade i’ll do with memphis a be to solve our problems of weakness for now and the future. That a be for conley,gasol, and tony allen 4 duck,za, teague, and jamal. We shed dirt we don’t need and we get our starting point and center. Memphis isn’t sold on conely allen is expendable

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It is time for coach to keep this lineup together. Collins adds a lot of value to this team. All he needs to do is stand there and raise his arms, and that is all the defense majority of big men in this league do. He needs to play against SA and Duncan. But playing him at center, frees Josh and Al to do their thing. Great move by LD

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Hey superior blogman. I think za for brad miller is like a straight up trade. Would be nice but i’ll take okur from utah cause he a open up the floor with his shot plus he has size. Najeh where the josh haters at, keep manning up josh it’s the whining and taking plays off i hate.

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Well here is my daily rant. Find a way to trade Marvin Williams and Zaza for anybody I care less who it is.

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KS what’s up, interesting comments by JC1…I was thinking the same thing. He looked like his old self last night…very decisive with the ball…HE IS VERY DANGEROUS…when he has it got going like that…and he is really stepping it up on defense…he did his thaaang last night.

ANOTHER GRITTY DETERMINE EFFORT BY THE HAWKS…WAY TO SHOW SOME TENACITY AND PERSAVERENCE…KEEP IT UP…now you playing some ball!!!

Doc, can you finally start calling Josh J-Smooooooooove again…or is it too soon???lol

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Marvin
MO
Zaza
Thomas
Pick and/or trade exception for

Butler and Heywood

Or

Crawford
Mo
Zaza
Thomas

for Butler and Heywood.

We all agreed that Mo, Zaza bring nothing to this team. Marvin can go too or at least needs to be brought off the bench. Anyone else playing SF will be an upgrade!
Everyone agrees this big line up is better, think how much better it would be with Heywood at centre. Not dissing Twin who has stepped up on defense, but someone with more of a offensive threat would not hurt.

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After watching Twin play for the past few games, and after watching Smoove play sf, I’ve come to this conclusion:
Hawks new lineup should be
Bibby/JJ/Josh/Al/Twin
Jamal/Marvin/Damien/Powell/Zaza
Teague/Etan/JC1

From here on out! After JJ comes back of course. LOL

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Joey, can we give JJ some time to recuperate…and come back healthy…before we start making presumption about how he is going to perform…unless you got some kind of crystal ball or sumin.lol

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They need to keep Horford at power forward! If that means putting Marvin Williams on the bench or even trading Johnson for a decent center (if that’s possible), do it! Last night’s lineup seems to be the one that works and they need to stick with it.

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5 mins for Teague in 2 games – wow. I must say in the 6 or 7 games I’ve watched Teague hasn’t been very impressive.

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Well its never as good as it seems when its good and never as bad as it seems when its bad. We have to remember that Marvin is hurting. He did put a string of games together where he was effective scoring, so its not like we haven’t seen flashes. I’m not overly concerned with him on offense. He needs to score enough to be a threat, preferably from three to open up the floor. Im worried about his defense and his rebounding. If Marvin showed the level of activity that Wilkins has shown, his role as a starter could be better justified.

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Wilkins is signed for the rest of the season, but his contract doesn’t become fully guaranteed until January 15, per MC.

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Great win by the Hawks, especially after winning a close game in Orlando the night before.

I know it’s cliche, but the Hawks have shown a lot of maturity this season in winning games they wouldn’t have won even last year. Credit to Coach Drew for realizing that perhaps Horford is best when playing at the 4, which may make things easier for him Friday at San Antonio.

JC1 makes a great point when he stated that anyone can lead the team in scoring, and I hope Josh Smith remembers that the next time his shot isn’t going down lol. I’m just glad that they are finally taking advantage of the multiple options they have on offense.

For all of the people commenting on whether or not JJ will have a hard time adjusting upon his return, remember that he was the lead dog for years because he HAD to be, especially as players like Josh, Horford, and Marvin were still getting adjusted to the NBA game.

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i_am_soulstar , thanks…glad to hear that!!

KS, just because Josh plays the SF…doesn’t mean…he has to always guard the SF…he has always been a high energy guy on defense…he will still find a way to get some block shots.

However, I think LD will stick with his starting lineup…unless we are playing a team with size and length…hopefully he will reconsider…this team is still evolving.

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Forgot to welcome Ken in in place of MC….

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The starting line up should be flexible throughout the entire season. Make adjustments based on matchups. Anyone outside of the 3 captains should be open to coming off the bench for the sake of the team.

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Forgot…..Sign my favorite player JC1.

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O’Brien,

From the last blog, where you said this:

“I think Collins should start against the Spurs and TD. Horford has a hard time slowing Timmy down.”

“I would not start Marvin at SG though. I would go Bibby/Evans/Josh/Al/Twin.”

I agree with one exception: I would start Damien instead of Mo to “put a rock in Manu’s jock” (that is, to slow him down greatly).

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Mo said he would be playing in pain for the rest of the season due to his knee.
Worthless imo.

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I would go Bibby/Joe/Damien/Josh/Al against smaller teams and Bibby/Joe/Josh/Al/Collins against bigger teams. I like what Collins gives the Hawks against other big centers, but Horford plays just fine against the majority of the so-called centers in the league. The Hawks have a major athleticism advantage against most NBA teams, and unless that is being neutralized by a size disadvantage, they should stick with Horford at C.

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Here’s a question for EVERYONE.

If the Hawks didn’t re-sign Joe, would they record be better, the same or worse than it currently is at the end of the first quarter of the season at 15-8?

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Let’s see how the better teams scheme against Horford and Josh before we decide that Joe isn’t needed. We just had a stretch of games when we couldn’t score 95 points and Josh was socring less than 15 a game. Let’s be careful not to assume that kicking a 4-time All-Star to the curb was the right move for a team that hasn’t seen game 5 of the second round of the playoffs. In other words, this team ain’t accomplished jack to be running off significant talent.

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AJ, I am not saying either way. I was all for re-signing Joe, even at the maximum amount, because the uncertainties were too great. I will say I believe this season and next season, Joe may end up being more valuable as a trade piece if it brought a superstar pg (Paul, But Stern won’t allow that to happen now, lol). I personally believe, Crawford is still the player who needs to be traded the most. With the injury to Joe, Crawford is auditioning for the entire league to drive up his price for the off season. I really don’t believe he looks at re-signing with the Hawks as an option, unless the Hawks (IMO foolishly) offers him the highest contract compared to the other teams.

I’m just curious to see what is the common opinion of where life would be without Joe in comparison to now.

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I wonder if Drew will apologize for Teague not making the Rookie-Sophomore All Star game like Woody did last year?

Ramon, the Hawks record may be slightly worse, maybe with another win against a good team and another loss or two against a bad team. But overall, comparable. But our schedule has been relatively easy thus far… the value of having someone like Joe (healthy) on the team is not when you’ve played the 76ers, Nets & T’Wolves 6 times in the first 20-something games, but when you are playing elite teams over the course of maybe 2-3 weeks (like what we’re about to go through). IMO, we could miss any one of our top 3 players and still beat the Nets & 76ers every time and all the time.

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Sautee, Teague has been given many chances, by LD, to shine enough to get playing time. Its hard to see Teague being a starting PG for a playoff caliber team any time soon. And being that there were 5 or 6 pg’s drafted before him, Teague would need to come in averaging 18-10 to be considered anywhere close to the top of the class, lol. Teague is easily the worst shooter on the team. And you can only believe its a mental thing, because he was able to score with such ease in college. Maybe he needs to slow down a little on the offensive end, and exhale. Whatever it is, he’s missing a lot of opportunities to have meaningful playing time. I guess Woody was right, lol. Can’t believe I just said that. So that would mean Woody was right about Teague, Salim, Law, and Solomon. Wow, who knew?

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I know this is the Hawks blog, but Meyer just quit AGAIN!

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Ramon, you mean Salim and Acie who are no longer earning NBA paychecks?

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Coach Drew probably will change starting lineups based on the opposing centers. Reducing the body banging on Horford keeps him fresh for late in the game and allows him to assume more of an offensive role. Against less potent post men, you may want to give Horford more time down low. Hawks are getting disappointing production out of Williams and Evans in the half court offense (they appear to be reduced to being a post on the periphery). Against the zone, they were non-factors. Neither were reliable on open jumpers when the chance came. I am puzzled as to what the coaching staff thinks their strengths are.
There seems to be an encouragement in the offense for shooter who only have a prayer from the 3 pt line, to move closer and hit a higher percentage shot. It has reduced offensive dry spells this year, IMHO.

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Ramon, I readily admit I was wrong on both Salim and Acie. I thought Salim would be Van Exel at best and Eddie House at worse. And I saw Acie play in his first NBA game and was thrilled that we drafted him and figured we were set for the long-term. I think I learned with both of those guys not to be fooled after a few flashes… which made me more cautious in evaluating Teague (as the supposed PG of the future). I still think that Teague is much closer to a back-up combo guard (think Lou Williams or George Hill) than the starting PG for a 50-win team. But with Jamal on board, he won’t ever get the chance to show his innate scoring skills off the bench. If LD paired him with Mo Evans as the second string backcourt and told Teague to go out and score 8-12 points a game, I actually think he could do that tomorrow. But asking him to manage the offense with Jamal expecting to touch the ball on every half-court possession? I don’t think so.

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Ramon and AJ,

I’m already on board (and have been for a couple of weeks) with the idea of trading Jamal for a starting point guard who can play D (Hinrich comes to mind).

But I’ll have to say that if Jamal can play more often like he did last night (that is, shoot over 50% while dealing 6 assists and only 3 to’s), he’ll change my mind.

Odds are, Jamal cannot keep that up. AND he is a defensive liability to the degree that many, many nights he gives more than he gets.

So, back to the trade for me. I see it (a defensive point guard) as our biggest need, now that we have Damien for some minutes at the 3.

And y’all are right that Teague likely can’t be a starter anytime soon. Which is why I say trade Jamal sooner than later.

Jamal, if you read this, nothing personal. You seem like one of the good guys in the league, but we have a glaring need that you aren’t likely to fill.

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If Joe’s elbow was preventing him from hitting open shots (which, i don’t know if yall’ve ever tried to shoot the ball with any pain of any kind arm related, it definitely affects your shot, even the smallest pain), and the surgery / time off allows him to come back legitimately healthy, we might be back up from not making the playoffs to second round out status.

LD’s flexibility with lineups lately seems to have given me a bit more vision and hope for the future

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B4 everyone gets so happy about this lineup and how much better the hawks are going to be with Joe and Marvin coming off the bench, remember when Mo and Marvin were hurt, Drew used this lineup and the losing started.

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I’ve never known a team to go far by altering their starting line-up every few days, but there is a first time for everything I guess.

There is NO requirement that a player stay with a team a full year after being acquired in a trade, Hinrich could be moved tomorrow. We just saw Bayless traded from Portland to New Orleans to Toronto in like 3 weeks.

That said, I doubt that Jamal gets traded given Joe’s injury. Too risky to deal that kind of proven scorer with another proven scorer recovering from surgery. The time to move Jamal was during the summer (when his value was at it’s peak).

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Powell isn’t phenomenal or anything but he’s better than Zaza at everything short of drawing fouls.
He seems to be trying harder on D and his jump shooting typically works within the offense.

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“i’ve never known a team to go far by altering their starting line-up every few days, but there is a first time for everything I guess.”

i agree. which is why marvin should come off the bench from here on out and Collins should start.
Its a question of whether you want to be mismatched at the 5 or at the 3.

Is there a better chance defensively for Smoove on Paul Pierce or Horford on Shaq?
Is there a better chance defensively for Smoove on Rashard Lewis or Horford on Dwight?

Its going to be hard to conclusively set the line up.
we’re unable to determine whether Al is better at guarding bigger 5’s than Smoove is at guarding smaller 3’s. too many factors come into play.

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Trade Marvin for Iggy and Sign Tayshoun Prince (UFA) is the offseason. Then Re-sign JC1.

2012 Champs

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Marvin + Teague for Mo Williams
Marvin + Mo Evans for Mo Williams

Would rather live with Mo’s contract than Marvins, even tho he’s fairly useless

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when Bibby/Jamal/Joe are in the lineup Al never gets shots.
If we are to succeed against good teams with that lineup, Jamal and Joe must learn to play better together within the offense.

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JJ will destroy this team if they let him come back. I don’t know what you people see in this guy. I do not like his game – never have and it would be in everybody best interest to trade him. They should have cut him loose after he insulted the people(fans) who paids his salary.

Sign Jamal Crawford to a long term contract and send JJ along with JT to Washington for Kirk Hinrick and 1st or 2nd rd pick.

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Tony why do we need Hinrick. We paying enough non producing players, waste of money and time.you cant know a basketball from a biscuit.

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We could make a run @ Tiago Splitter from San Antone.

It would take *Joe to get *Marc Gasol.
*(I would strongly consider that move)

I’m with Ramon – I’ve wanted Battier since 2001.
Marv for Battier straight up!

I must give Bibby a great deal of credit:
Comeback Player of the Year!

Trade Teague if we must.
Same with JC2.
To fill immediate needs.

J-Collins makes us better.
“It’s not your five best players,
it’s your five players who play the best together”
-John Wooden-
Repeat, Jason Collins makes us a better team.

Not so sure about Joe?
Does his greatest value = trade bait?

And last:
Yes,
Josh -CAN- play the [3] !

I’m sorry, but as long and hard as I argued that point,
there is satisfaction in seeing his success.
I wish for his continued progress.

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I was grown when you were born tony ,Hinrich impress you, what will he bring to the hawks? if he was who you thought he was ,he would still be in chicago. they looked at their team to compete now he had to go , he cant break the lineup on a 4 win team , he is no DEFENSE POINT BLANK. what do he bring ? HE IMPRESS YOU ! WHY?

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Dang Sautee;

“Oh boy, It’s NBA 2K10Live. I love it when the blog devolves into useless trade ideas. It’s not Fantasy guys”

That’s my hobby…..useless trade ideas.

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MC is to our blog
-AS-
Andrew Bynum is to the Lakers.

He serves a purpose when he shows up.

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‘Nimbers’ Don’t Lie!

Lewis said:
“when Bibby/Jamal/Joe are in the lineup Al never gets shots.”

Very astute observation on lewis behalf, IDK what the PER is on those three guys, but if what lewis said is true? I imagine the PER is negative values.

I’m to lazy to look that up, but if Coach demands that all offense runs through Al on the block, and Al makes a quik post move to the basket, then he should convert and get an AND-1, if fouled. Otherwise, Al should roll to his shot-spot with player and ball movement and be open for his 12 foot jumper.
But, when those three guys are on the floor Al should be the 1st and 2nd option,
then Bibby and Jamal. Inside-Outside ALWAYS! High Percentage + Fouls called Inside – right?

Bottom Line! Gotta’ run the offense through Al! Always!

SUPER-STAR!

Josh is becoming a Super-Star!

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Tony y do u have this man crush on kirk hinrich. Dude never will be an allstar, u have to be a wizards fan cause that trade a make washington who is in our division better than us. Look trade rule one u don’t trade a great player for a good one a good for a nice and a nice for average. JJ is verygood kirk is average

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Blog monster ate my trade proposal! A sign? I don’t know.

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THE SECOND

Is playing BIG meant to be an option (and not necessarily THE answer)? Is bringing in a better SF more important than bringing in a better PG? Then this trade is for you.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2bbtu9f

A. Horford/M. Camby/J. Collins
J. Smith/J. Powell
M. Williams/A. Nocioni
J. Johnson/R. Fernandez/J. Crawford (2)
M. Bibby/J. Teague

The Hawks can easily go big when needed. Add all the caveats about the players being able to fill in at multiple positions.

BOTH trades give the Hawks a bit more tenacity, more defense. BOTH trades gives the Hawks a bit more flexibility with the lineups.

BOTH trades are semi-realistic as all other teams in this trade are in (re-)building mode. With Pryzbilla (sp?) coming back and M. Camby being a little disgruntled the Trailblazers may be (more than) willing to trade him. I feel the second trade may be a little more realistic, but neither trade is too far out there.

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Big men that a make us better, chandler,okur, miller, beindris, darko, gasol, lopez from phoenix. The big men who open up the floor with size are better. Oh i like nocioni he gangsta, but why we still have duck? He the weakest link

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MC is to our blog is what flies are to a turd.

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Bad Trades….

OUT FO TOWN STUPID….. The belief the another teams trash is better than your trash.

BOX SCORE BAFOONS…..The belief that the box score tells the whols story.

The HATRED for Marvin is so Great that want to trade him for players that don’t make us a better team or trades the other team would never do. He still is the best wing defender on the team. He is still 6′9 and 240lbs who can defend 3 positions, that will be very im portant during the playoffs.

GET OVER MARVIN WILLIAMS

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northcyde, call me irrational, but I don’t want to hear any positive news about Marvin right now. I saw with my own eyes that he stood around on the floor while everyone else was working. And when he had the ball in the paint last night he shot these hard brick shots. Luckly one banked in. I don’t have a category in my mind for someone playing that badly as a professional basketball player.

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Rev in Tampa

How about: “Bust” or “Bush – League”?

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Silly Rabbit! Trix are for Kids!

Rufus1 said this:

“The HATRED for Marvin is so Great that want to trade him for players that don’t make us a better team or trades the other team would never do. He still is the best wing defender on the team. He is still 6′9 and 240lbs who can defend 3 positions, that will be very im portant during the playoffs. ”

The HATRED? I never read where anyone said, they HATE Marvin – Person? Maybe Hate his GAME! Which is fair as a fan’s opinion. Everyone on here is entitled to that! It’s a Blog – Rufus1. That’s what Blogs do.

In the MJ era, the Player said: “Don’t Player Hate!” Don’t Hate the Player – Hate the Game! Well, many on here: Hate Marvin’s Game.

If Marvin could just aspire to be Lamar Odom, and play like him?
We would all be estatic! Personally, I wish Marvin well, playing in a change of scenery may be just what the doctor ordered: see Michael Beasely in Minny.

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OK Rev . . . you’re irrational.

The fact is that Marvin has had 3 straight bad games. Before that, he had 4 straight good games. The Hawks are also 15 – 4 when Marvin is in the lineup. And when he was out, people were missing his defense and saying that we needed him.

Marvin is who he is . . . a guy that may or may not show up on any given night. He probably won’t be the star people want him to be. And because he’s not guaranteed 10+ shots a game, he may or may not produce.

It is what it is.

It’s funny though. People love Josh Smith all of a sudden again, but he had 4 lackluster games before these last 2 great games he had.

It simply is what it is around here. If someone plays well, people act like they’re an all-world player. If someone plays bad, he’s complete garbage.

To me, it just doesn’t make sense to be stressing out about Marvin. He’s a secondary player. If he plays well, that’s great. If he doesn’t, just reduce his minutes.

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22 PTS,14REB, 2 BLOCKED SHOTS, 38 minutes of play and his team won. No I am not writing about Al Horford nor Josh Smith. I am writing of Jason Thompson’s statline. You know the guy that was supposedly offered for Jeff Teague. Maybe that was just a rumor but it is a nasty one showing once again that Rick Sund has no clue, but the few insightful ones that post here were upset and new that that would have been a golden move from the time it was leaked. We are doomed to mediocrity by Rick Sund and the ASG not by Joe Johnson’s contract or the fact that he is not Kobe or Wade, not by Smoove’s erratic play that pisses us all off at times, not by Al being inadequate in size. We are doomed by Sund and the ASG and there unwillingness to care enough to make the moves that present themselves and that would make us better.

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Come on to da ATL, Nash..make Horford your new AMARE!!

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Jason Thompson?

His uncle is my X-Ray Supplier and Technician for the practice. Jason is his Sister’s son. Listen, Jason has Family in Atlanta and no doubt he is a great guy and all. But, he has never had a stat-line like that before. A fluke? Probably, and BTW, who was the opponent?

Here’s my point: The Hawks do NOT need another PF, we got like 5 of those alteady. You don’t trade Teague a dire need at PG, for a sixth PF! That makes no sense and makes this team more lop-sided than it already is.

Please, explain your rationale Sir?

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@drmaryb I think the rationale behind trading for Thompson is first off he would play center for us. He would immediately be a upgrade over anyone we have except of course Al. Seeing the way we play when Al plays PF and Josh SF (of course not full time) it would be a upgrade. He is young atheletic and can play defense and can score. Is he a 20 and 10 guy like the night he had stated above? Of course not. But I think he could be a 10 and 12 guy and provide some good interior defense.
Now as far as losing Teague yes we are very thin at point guard. We would have to sign somebody off of the street to come in and play. I mean is Acie Law any worse than Teague. He is on the street as I type. Teague is player that we could move and he can be replaced.

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And I agree with the good Dr. Trade for another PF? Nah. Either get us a competent PG here, or a competent C here.

And Acie is a complete bust folks. If he couldn’t make it in Memphis as a backup PG, it’s not going to happen for him. I would rather bring Flip back than Acie. And God knows what Flip is doing these days. Probably selling insurance or something.

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@northcyde – “To me, it just doesn’t make sense to be stressing out about Marvin. He’s a secondary player. If he plays well, that’s great. If he doesn’t, just reduce his minutes.”

I’d be fine with reducing his minutes. I don’t think I’ve ever called for him to be traded. I like Marvin and have given him kudos when he has played well. But when you are a professional you don’t get to decide when you want to show up or when you want to fight for a rebound.

I am angry at Marvin because he could add more to this team than he does. He is inconsistent in his performance and mindset. It seems to me that Marvin could fight through these mental issues if he had the DESIRE to do so.

I understand that all athletes have off-nights. This is part of what makes sports so entertaining. The unexpected can always happen. But Marvin is very consistent in his inconsistency. We all know that he will disappear for stretches of games at a time.

I would not spend this much mental or emotional energy on Marvin except I see him as an important piece of the team. He is more than one fifth of the whole. He not only provides some of the better man-to-man defense but he is that extra option that many teams don’t have. Teams have to account for JJ & Jamal’s creativity, Horford’s mid-range jumpshot, Josh’s inside (and now outside) game, and Bibby’s 3pt shot. And with Drew’s motion offense this puts incredible pressure on the other team. The Hawks are a nightmare to defend – IF Marvin decides to show up.

I would be disappointed if the Hawks traded Marvin because they would not get quality in return. I see the quality in him IF he would just find it in him to use it.

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Defense Wins Championships!!!!!

Did you any of you see what the Bucks wing players did to the Hawks…..I DID!

Did you see the defense the “DUCK” played against IGGY, GAY and Morrow. I think Morrow scored 1 Basket when Marvins was playing him…..THE DUCK CAN PLAY “D”

I am not saying you shouldn’t be upset about his offense inconsistancy, but to say he is worthless is an overstatement.

Some people have watched Wilkins play 20mins of basketball and are saying he is better than Marvin….REALLY…..I CALL THAT HATE!

PS. When I stated HATRED I was talking about his “GAME”….Not about him as a person.

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I’ll admit that I haven’t seen a lot of Jason Thompson, but from what I have seen, he has Solo’s body type. I don’t deny that he has skills, especially on the offensive end, and depending on what you think of Teague he may be worth that trade. But he is not going to help guard centers any more than Collins and Powell currently do.

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And as for Marvin, we all know he CAN play good D and he CAN score. The problem is that it has been over five years now and he has proven that he doesn’t do this on a consistent basis. At this point it is fair to assume that he never will. The history of the league is littered with talented players like him who never put it together.

Would I mind having him around at a minimum salary? Of course not. But at his contract, he is a net loss that needs to be traded for the best salary cap interest of the team

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@Rod we agree 100% again about Marvin. Nuff said.

@Najeh Go check his stats he is 6′11″ 250lbs. The game he scored 22 pts 14 bds 2 blocks was against Wizards last I checked Jevale Mcghee is a monster at center. They have him listed at 7′0″ 252 lbs. Now hey Collins has been doing pretty good in the paint for us. But to land a 25 yr old that could replace him do the same job or better defensively and can score points all for just a back up point guard. Can we all say Sund dropped the ball on this one. Cmon son!!

@Rev Marvin will always be the odd man out. Cmon man please stop talking about marvin’s defense you guys are grasping at straws to make him seem viable. Let it go man. It takes heart,pride and passion to play defense Marvin has none of the above.

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@ROD

In the NBA sometimes the players scores regardless how good the defense you play…..so the box score doesn’t always tell the story, that is the NBA….WATCH THE GAME.

Perfect example Jamal crawford and Bibby’s defense has improved this year, even if so people don’t think so….They are is still not GOOD.

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Co-Sign the “Marvin as a valuable role player” comments.

I’ve always agreed with this. However, I do have a concern similar to one Najeh expressed in the 11:14 post: He is a bit overpaid given his production. Defensive-minded wing players with OK offensive games are not usually paid $7 million a year. Ron Artest comes to mind as a defensive-minded wing player with OK offensive games that is paid in this ball park, but Marvin Williams is no Ron Artest.

If Marvin was making $3 or $4 million a year, he would be a good investment, but at $7+ million a year, he simply is not a good investment. And with this in mind, plus considering he is not an expiring, trading him for even (or better) talent would be difficult, if not impossible. Besides the Hawks depth-wise are still very weak at the SF position. There is no one on the Hawks bench that could be a legitimate starter at the SF position … even on a bad team.

So, not only is Marvin Williams probably untradeable (at least in a trade that provides the Hawks with even or better talent), but the Hawks probably would not want to trade him given the Hawks’ SF rotation.

For better or for worse, Marvin is probably here to stay. The sooner we all accept this AND accept that Marvin is a decent contributor to this team, the better we will all be. If we are going to worry, let’s worry about filling some other holes, e.g., a starting-quality, defensive-minded center, a stronger PG rotation, a stronger SF rotation.

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Oh, and I am a little confused by a previous post that implicated a Miller as being one of the few centers that could help the Hawks. Was the poster referring to Brad Miller? Yes, I would probably take Brad Miller over the backup centers the Hawks have, but if the Hawks are really in need of an upgraded DEFENSIVE-MINDED center, I don’t think Brad meets this bill by any stretch of the imagination.

As is obvious, I still like Camby. I really think he could help the Hawks, as he would be an upgrade over Collins, Pachulia, and Thomas, plus he is defensive minded. Also, the Trailblazers may be willing to trade him, as he is beginning to be a little disgruntled. (If you haven’t noticed the Trailblazers are having problems winning this year. I think if Camby was moved to a team that was winning more games, he would be much happier. But, of course, I could be wrong.)

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@Superiorblogman: Talent-wise a Teague for Thompson trade makes sense. However, personnel-wise the trade makes no sense, unless the Hawks could combine this trade with another trade or two that addresses some of the personnel issues.

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Rev in Tampa said:

“@northcyde – “To me, it just doesn’t make sense to be stressing out about Marvin. He’s a secondary player. If he plays well, that’s great. If he doesn’t, just reduce his minutes.”

Aye Rev? Can we reduce his salary too? LOL.

When Bibby (who rarely speaks to media) was asked about his thoughts on Marvin? He NEVER mentioned DEFENSE. Matt Barnes, Tony Allen and Ron Artest? Now, your are talking game changing DEFENSE.

I just don’t see the – ‘Love of Marvin’

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Rufus1,

@Rod and anyone that thinks the box score tells the whole story.

Actually that is my point. YOU took one game from this year against Iggy, and said Marvin locked him up. Did you every consider that maybe Iggy might had a bad game? Guys like Battier, Artest, Prince, and Ariza, are proven defenders who coaches and players have voted on all defensive teams, or they have played great defense on a great scorer over a seven game series, not just one game. I have never heard anyone not associated with the Atlanta Hawks or this blog ever give Marvin Williams credit for being a great defender.

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“A” for Effort and Passion!

Rufus1 said:

“Marvin is about 5 years younger and some people want to trade Marvin for Battier….Really. I don’t want to hear the Battier is a leader….Tell one of those 10 to 20mil players to step-up and be a leader.”

I have go give you props for your debating skills and passion for the argument!
However, just because Battier and Ariza are overpaid? Doesn’t give solace to Marvin being over paid by a cash strapped ball club.

I would actually rather pay Battier at 5 years older to paying Marvin’s invisible game. Battier has seasoning, and can hit his threes and mid-range jump shots consistently. He does NOT disappear in games either. That man has a HEART!
And, guarding KOBE is a mute point! Kobe is unstoppable – period. He is a 5 Time Champion who plays with a broken finger on his shooting hand and still makes impossible baskets look easy. Not even a debate there.

Besides, older veteran teams are the recipe of Champions! We could use some old cats like: Ray Allen, KG, Shaq, Kobe and that lists goes into eternity. Young teams have NEVER won it all in Basketball!

Maybe the Marlins or Tampa Bay Devil Rays in Baseball, which is ONE POSITION dominated – PITCHING and NOT hitting wins there!

But, NEVER the case in Basketball! Look up the past 30 Champions of round ball:They are all “Over the Hill”. Talent laden ball clubs with at least 3 HOF’ers!

So, no, Marvin will never help a ball club win a RING – with his game nor so-called defense! Mark My Words! IMHO! Old Vets play URGENTLY! Because, they know it’s time to hang up the Laces! Marvin does NOT spell – U R G E N C Y!

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@Rufus1 Re: $7 million-a-year defensive-minded wing players. I cannot believe I forgot about Battier and Ariza.

In almost all categories, Ariza’s stats are slightly better, including Ariza’s defensive stats. Ariza also averages about 5 more minutes per game.

Shane Battier’s ppg, rebounds and FG% are similar to Marvin’s, but Shane is shooting much better from beyond the arc, Shane also has twice as many assists per game, and Shane has a higher average block per games.

Of course, stat lines never tell the whole story. I think Shane would be a _small_ upgrade over Marvin. In addition to slightly better stats, he brings some of those important intangibles. I am not sure if I would take Ariza over Marvin, though. I don’t think Ariza would really add anything meaningful to the Hawks above and beyond what Marvin already brings.

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Killing ‘Em Softly!

Rod from CP is winning this argument – Hands Down! He is killing Rufus1, “who started it all” with Stats and Facts!

Rod’s argument is UNDISPUTED and Marvin’s Game?
Backs him up – Every Time!

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@Hawkeye: It’s one of the few semi-realistic trade proposals that let’s the Hawks keep JC1. Depending on your point of view, that may be a good thing. I like adding Hinrich to the line up. With that move, the Hawks PG rotation definitely improves.

However, Marvin is better than Thornton IMHO. Maybe that is the price the Hawks pay to get Hinrich. The move has the Hawks take one step forward at the PG position but one step back at the SF position. I don’t know — maybe the move is worth it.

As far as Thompson vs. ZaZa … is this really an improvement at the *C* position? Stat wise both players put up similar numbers. ZaZa (usually) brings a bit of energy off the bench that the (more causal) fans love. Thompson is smaller than ZaZa is probably better equipped to play PF.

If you could find a way to make a similar trade, but bring in a center who would be an improvement over Collins as-a-defensive-center and who would not hurt the Hawks offensively, I think the trade becomes a good trade for the Hawks. Of course, a trade has to be perceived by all parties involved as a good trade, or else, a trade will never take place.

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@Hawkeye: Follow up: After taking a few more minutes to think about the trade, I actually do like it. I am not sure if it makes the Hawks any closer to the Eastern Conference Championship, but it probably does not make the Hawks any worse, while also putting the Hawks in a bit better salary position going forward.

So, the real question is whether or not the Wizards would go the trade knowing that (1) personnel wise it only helps the Wizards a little bit and (2) it hurts them salary-wise if they plan to make a run at one of the bigger name free agents this year or next.

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Hawkeye

Not a bad trade, but Zsa for Thompson? Mmmmh! Zsa has more BEEF in the pants. Can, Thompson – “Stare Down”- KG? While Zsa may be regressing, he does battle, body-up and collect Offensive Boards. Also, is a pretty decent passer.

Marvin is a weaker link than Zsa, IMHO. Not ready to give up on Teague just yet.
But, your trade does make some sense and would add value.
It’s jusþ a matter of what is needed the most to take the next step!

We got many holes!

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@Dukester, being difficult to trade because of low-production-for-your-salary-point and being a valuable role player are NOT mutually exclusive events. In other words, there is no tension in saying that some player (e.g., Marvin Williams) is both a player that may be difficult to trade because he has low production given his salary and he is a player that is a solid role player.

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J from the A

I love your trade proposal which involves having camby and hinrich it’s definite upgrade in the 5 and 1 spot but i wouldn’t mind having him if he’s 3 years younger. I know thompson will not solve our problem C spot but he can be an asset if we want to make a trade in the future and having him saves us more $. Zaza may be bigger and tougher than him but IMO I think thompson is more talented offensively and he’s a decent rebounder and defender. After watching wilkins defend lebron I don’t think losing marvin will affect the team that much and we have plenty of shooters to make up for his 3pt shooting and we have yet see Pape play and i think thornton is a cheap decent replacement for marvin.

Making this trade will save us more $ and probably makes it possible for us to resign JC1.

Zaza 15M 3yrs v.s Thompson 6M 2yrs
Marvin 24M 3 yrs v.s Thornton 3M 1yr plus (team option)

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Well i thought making that trade will benefit us in a way:

1.) Saves us $ (Marvin+ zaza salary = 40M 3 YEARS, and having them is not a long term solution)

2.) Trade will make us younger (thompson and thornton, zaza’s getting old)

3.) Gives us trade pieces (thompson/thornton)

4.) Gives us a solid Backup PG (hinrich)

5.) Let us keep JC1

Let’s just hope that Wizard’s GM is as Bad as Sac and Goldenstate’s GM to make this trade happen.

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@Superior no one said lets go get Acie Law
I said we should have traded Teague for Thompson. And if need be we could sign Acie Law and he would be a regular ole back up point guard to fill a roster spot. Someone used the excuse that trading Teague would leave us thin at PG and over loaded at PF/C. My thoughts are so what there are 1000’s of point guards on the street looking for a job. Pick one and move on. We are not over loaded at the big spot we really only have a couple that we can trust. I mean we were so despearate we resigned Collins and Thomas. Geeshh cmon guys wake up. It’s like yall fall in love with certain players that are not producing and I dont understand it.

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dukester: I would be fine with picking up Acie if it meant we could do the Thompson Teague trade. I was agreeing with you dude but the truth is for those people saying trading Teague would make us short at backup PG I am saying that Jamal is the backup PG. Jamal usually is the 1st player off the bench and he subs in the for Bibby. That means Jamal is playing backup PG and doing a good job so why are people talking this Teague stuff I don’t know

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When we’re talking about the Hawks making moves, we can’t forget about the luxury tax…We don’t even know if we can afford to keep Wilkins for the rest of the year, much less take on an extra $600k in a Teague for Thompson swap, and we definitely can’t trade Teague for Thompson, cut someone, and then sign a free agent PG to finish the year…As a Hawks fan, for every move we propose, we have to consider this year’s salary impact, and future years as well.

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Orlando Magic! Spreading that bug around the NBA!

Get Well Soon Zsa!

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