Hawks 116, Nets 101
Greetings, all-
This is Ken Sugiura filling in and giving Michael Cunningham a rare and well-deserved night off. Hope you all enjoyed the game.
A pretty impressive night, my first time watching Larry Drew’s club in person. Obviously, ball movement and the shooting stuck out, particularly given a) they were playing the back end of a back-t0-back in which they’d shot 38.8 percent in the first game; b) were playing their fourth game in five days; c) I’m not sure about a c. Actually, here’s a c. The Nets a pretty decent defensive bunch. Their defensive field-goal percentage coming in was 44.8 percent.
The lineup of Mike Bibby/Marvin Williams/Josh Smith/Al Horford/Jason Collins, which debuted is now 2-0. I imagine Drew will keep this lineup. He likes the size mismatches it presents at the 2 and the 3 (Williams and Smith), that it makes the opponent match up the Hawks rather than vice versa. He also likes that it frees up Horford to play the 4 and not have to wrestle the likes of Brook Lopez all night.
Drew on Smith at the 3: “Most 3’s will not be able to match up against him especially when he posts them. He’s learned to be a pretty good paleyr in the post when I can get him down there, but it does pose a problem for the opposition because they have to make a decision on whether to match up big against him or like last night (against Orlando), they matched up Quentin Richardson and I went right into the post at him and they had to change the matchup.”
On Horford at 4: “I think he likes the fact that he doesn’t have to get down there, every single night, bang against somebody that’s bigger and stronger. It certainly relieves him of that, puts him in a position where he can be a little fresher at the end of the game.”
- Jamal Crawford on the game: “I think we know that anybody can lead our team in scoring on a given night. We’re O.K. with that.”
- Also: “I feel a lot more comfortable (in the offense) right now.” He was 11 for 17 with six assists.
- Hawks were able to slow Lopez down (somewhat). He had 15 before halftime, nine after. But he had 32 the first game, a 107-101 Nets win Nov. 23. Drew: “I thought our guys did a good job in making some adjustments during the course of the game in defending him and in defending the pick-and-roll with Devin Harris.” (This is probably not that important, but I don’t know that I’ve ever heard a coach give credit to the players for making the adjustments, or if I have, it hasn’t been very often. This is even less important: I was interviewing former New York Giants coach Jim Fassel once and he was talking about something like that, about some schematic or personnel change the Giants had made in their season that had them playing better and he said something like, “After we made that switch,” then he paused, and said, “After I made that switch…” I think I can safely I’ve never heard that before.)
- We’re obviously way off from this becoming reality, but I imagine some of you must be wondering — what happens if the Hawks keep up this unselfish style and start really playing well without Joe Johnson? It’d be challenging for any player, I’d think, and any team to re-adjust to their lead dog coming back, but I might think it could be especially so here. For one thing, players look to Johnson as that lead dog and so it’ll be a change in mindset for everyone when he returns.
- Smith on his jump shot: “I work hard on my jump shot. I’m not surprised if anything goes in. I assume it’s going to go in every time. I’m a confident player.” (Then he laughed a little bit.)
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190 comments Add your comment
L-QUE
December 8th, 2010
6:48 pm
If you are a true Hawks fan then lets not start calling names and showing stupidity, after all these players worked hard to make a NBA roster, some have been degrading JOSH ,TWIN, JOE , BIBBY, JC1, now its MARVINS ,He is still a undevelop YOUNG MAN ,he got game , there is a lot of good basketball in him.But Atlanta cant compete trying to develop players at this stage.Remember I said from the jump, play the seven -Collins- Atlanta is a big team and there are plenty of sevenfooters walking the streets we can get low budget ,to lay on centers in the league. Spend whats left in our budget on a point that can help now and in the future. GEEMACK 8:42am Atlanta wont be blowed out. Marvin is losing his playing time. Terrell 8:49am you change your mind like you change clothes Kill him one day love him the next.
L-QUE
December 8th, 2010
6:54 pm
Tony why do we need Hinrick. We paying enough non producing players, waste of money and time.you cant know a basketball from a biscuit.
tony
December 8th, 2010
7:10 pm
L-QUE, you can say what you want about Kirk Hinrich but we do need him. I’m not one who gets behind my computer to insult my fellowman but I will say this. GROW UP KID!
Grandad
December 8th, 2010
7:33 pm
We could make a run @ Tiago Splitter from San Antone.
It would take *Joe to get *Marc Gasol.
*(I would strongly consider that move)
I’m with Ramon – I’ve wanted Battier since 2001.
Marv for Battier straight up!
I must give Bibby a great deal of credit:
Comeback Player of the Year!
Trade Teague if we must.
Same with JC2.
To fill immediate needs.
J-Collins makes us better.
“It’s not your five best players,
it’s your five players who play the best together”
-John Wooden-
Repeat, Jason Collins makes us a better team.
Not so sure about Joe?
Does his greatest value = trade bait?
And last:
Yes,
Josh -CAN- play the [3] !
I’m sorry, but as long and hard as I argued that point,
there is satisfaction in seeing his success.
I wish for his continued progress.
terrell
December 8th, 2010
7:43 pm
L-QUE,what did I change my mind about. Just because you might be willing to deal a player to make the TEAM better doesnt mean that you despise the player you’re willing to deal.
L-QUE
December 8th, 2010
7:46 pm
I was grown when you were born tony ,Hinrich impress you, what will he bring to the hawks? if he was who you thought he was ,he would still be in chicago. they looked at their team to compete now he had to go , he cant break the lineup on a 4 win team , he is no DEFENSE POINT BLANK. what do he bring ? HE IMPRESS YOU ! WHY?
L-QUE
December 8th, 2010
7:54 pm
terrell i have seen some of your posts over the months you have been bashing some players that seem to be okay with you now. if i offended you i am sorry.
Grandad
December 8th, 2010
8:02 pm
Dang Sautee;
“Oh boy, It’s NBA 2K10Live. I love it when the blog devolves into useless trade ideas. It’s not Fantasy guys”
That’s my hobby…..useless trade ideas.
terrell
December 8th, 2010
8:05 pm
Name one player I bashed before that I dont bash now. I bashed Marvin before, and I still bash him. lol! Bashed Josh’ atittude, bad shot taking, dribbling like hes a pg, etc…, and will continue to, unless it changes. Never bashed his heart or skills though. But it’s all good. And where is this coming from, All I said was I like the new lineup. Only I want Damien at the 2 instead of Marvin. lol!
Grandad
December 8th, 2010
8:06 pm
MC is to our blog
-AS-
Andrew Bynum is to the Lakers.
He serves a purpose when he shows up.
terrell
December 8th, 2010
8:17 pm
Hinrich? No thanks. We need a center and a pg. Hinrich is neither.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 8th, 2010
8:26 pm
‘Nimbers’ Don’t Lie!
Lewis said:
“when Bibby/Jamal/Joe are in the lineup Al never gets shots.”
Very astute observation on lewis behalf, IDK what the PER is on those three guys, but if what lewis said is true? I imagine the PER is negative values.
I’m to lazy to look that up, but if Coach demands that all offense runs through Al on the block, and Al makes a quik post move to the basket, then he should convert and get an AND-1, if fouled. Otherwise, Al should roll to his shot-spot with player and ball movement and be open for his 12 foot jumper.
But, when those three guys are on the floor Al should be the 1st and 2nd option,
then Bibby and Jamal. Inside-Outside ALWAYS! High Percentage + Fouls called Inside – right?
Bottom Line! Gotta’ run the offense through Al! Always!
SUPER-STAR!
Josh is becoming a Super-Star!
J from the A
December 8th, 2010
8:28 pm
Hinrich brings some grit and decent D. He also has a very solid spot up jump shot (including from beyond the arc). He is a solid PG, but has been playing SG the last few seasons.
The main complaint about Hinrich is that he cannot create his own shot, but in the motion offense, the sets create the shot for the player. (Think Bibby vs. JC1 in the current offense …)
Jamillion
December 8th, 2010
8:28 pm
Tony y do u have this man crush on kirk hinrich. Dude never will be an allstar, u have to be a wizards fan cause that trade a make washington who is in our division better than us. Look trade rule one u don’t trade a great player for a good one a good for a nice and a nice for average. JJ is verygood kirk is average
O'Brien
December 8th, 2010
8:33 pm
terrell,
Hinrich can play PG, and he can play some SG. Plus if we traded for him, he would be our second best defensive guard behind JJ.
Sautee,
I like your idea better. Start Damien at SG, with Josh and Al at forward.
And I agree with whoever said Marvin should come off the bench when JJ comes back. As a matter of fact, we have had the discussion on this blog before about Marvin being a 6th or 7th man.
He played well in that role at UNC, and with JJ in the game, Marvin defers a lot. His biggest asset is his defense, but if Damien can come close to that, I think we can bring Marvin off the bench.
Here we are discussing Marvin underachieving again, despite the fact that this is his 6th year in the league, and he has been a starter since year 2.
Here is a question. If Damien was getting 29 mpg, would he be able to average what Marvin does? 10 pts, 5 rebounds. i think he could.
J from the A
December 8th, 2010
8:34 pm
Blog monster ate my trade proposal! A sign? I don’t know.
J from the A
December 8th, 2010
8:35 pm
Two-for-one trades today:
THE FIRST
Is playing BIG the answer? Is bringing in a better PG more important that bringing in a better SF? Then this trade is for you.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2b3qoub
M. Camby/J. Collins/E. Thomas
A. Horford/J. Powell
J. Smith/M. Williams
J. Johnson/J. Crawford (2)/J. Teague
M. Bibby/K. Hinrich
Obviously, Al will play a good bit at C, Josh will play a good bit at PF, Joe may play a bit at SF, all the guards coming of the bench can play either guard position, and Marvin can come off the bench to play at SG, SF, or PF.
J from the A
December 8th, 2010
8:36 pm
THE SECOND
Is playing BIG meant to be an option (and not necessarily THE answer)? Is bringing in a better SF more important than bringing in a better PG? Then this trade is for you.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2bbtu9f
A. Horford/M. Camby/J. Collins
J. Smith/J. Powell
M. Williams/A. Nocioni
J. Johnson/R. Fernandez/J. Crawford (2)
M. Bibby/J. Teague
The Hawks can easily go big when needed. Add all the caveats about the players being able to fill in at multiple positions.
BOTH trades give the Hawks a bit more tenacity, more defense. BOTH trades gives the Hawks a bit more flexibility with the lineups.
BOTH trades are semi-realistic as all other teams in this trade are in (re-)building mode. With Pryzbilla (sp?) coming back and M. Camby being a little disgruntled the Trailblazers may be (more than) willing to trade him. I feel the second trade may be a little more realistic, but neither trade is too far out there.
tony
December 8th, 2010
8:47 pm
L-QUE, Kirk Hinrich just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. There was no way Chicago was going to pass on Derrick Rose so they traded him to the Washington. That same year Washinton drafted John Wall and we all know that Washington wasn’t going to pass on him.
I like Kirk Hinrick because he is a team leader. He is often referred to as “Captain Kirk” because he has been voted a team captain for the Bulls for four consecutive years. Hinrich is the Bulls’ all-time leader in three point field goals. He is tough, unselfish, understand the game, and mentally strong. He’s in command when the game is on the line and makes all other players better by his presence.
The Hawks need a true facilitator(pg) and I believe Kirk will fill that void.
Jamillion
December 8th, 2010
8:52 pm
Big men that a make us better, chandler,okur, miller, beindris, darko, gasol, lopez from phoenix. The big men who open up the floor with size are better. Oh i like nocioni he gangsta, but why we still have duck? He the weakest link
O'Brien
December 8th, 2010
9:19 pm
Ramon,
Our schedule has been easy in terms of the teams we have played. The difficult part was the amount of back to backs, with not much time off between some games.
Brook Lopez
December 8th, 2010
10:33 pm
MC is to our blog is what flies are to a turd.
Brook Lopez
December 8th, 2010
10:34 pm
Just some mo sh i t
Rufus1
December 8th, 2010
11:07 pm
Bad Trades….
OUT FO TOWN STUPID….. The belief the another teams trash is better than your trash.
BOX SCORE BAFOONS…..The belief that the box score tells the whols story.
The HATRED for Marvin is so Great that want to trade him for players that don’t make us a better team or trades the other team would never do. He still is the best wing defender on the team. He is still 6′9 and 240lbs who can defend 3 positions, that will be very im portant during the playoffs.
GET OVER MARVIN WILLIAMS
northcyde
December 9th, 2010
12:15 am
Congrats again to Smith, and that excellent game he had last night. It’s almost like a dream for him to actually be making outside shots at this high of a level.
The absence of JJ may make LD a better coach, because it will enable him to see just what type of offensive talents that Smith and Horford can bring to his system. And he’s forced to use and experiment with different lineups.
The big lineup was a different look. And while everybody is dogging Marvin, I believe he was something like +21 on the floor last night. So at the very least, he was on the floor when the Hawks were playing great.
Here’s the problem with Collins being a permanent starter. While he is a good position rebounder, he doesn’t do anything else. So if we’re facing a team in which the opposing center doesn’t do much, or against centers who are more perimeter oriented, those would be the games I don’t start ( or even play ) him in.
We’re not going to win many games with Smith getting 3 rebounds, so we still have to play him at the 4 more than at the 3. But because he’s shooting the ball well, he does give LD the option to occasionally play him at the 3.
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2010
12:55 am
northcyde, call me irrational, but I don’t want to hear any positive news about Marvin right now. I saw with my own eyes that he stood around on the floor while everyone else was working. And when he had the ball in the paint last night he shot these hard brick shots. Luckly one banked in. I don’t have a category in my mind for someone playing that badly as a professional basketball player.
MsDee
December 9th, 2010
1:07 am
@lou hudson at your 5:33pm post
I LOVE THE PHOENIX TRADE IDEA!! The starting line-up would look like this..NASH/JJ/JSMITH/HORFORD/COLLINS..backups are JAMAL/CHILLS/DAMIEN/POWELL/ETAN. WOW, also with the new additions, we will then have not 1,not 2, but 3 Joshes on the team!!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 9th, 2010
1:48 am
Rev in Tampa
How about: “Bust” or “Bush – League”?
drmaryb (*_*)
December 9th, 2010
2:04 am
Michael Beasley found his game in Minny, once he was rid of ISO-Wade.
Maybe, Marvin can find his game in some other city too.
Didn’t someone leave their HEART in San Francisco?
Maybe, Marvin can hire someone to start looking there, because:
He has NO heart in Atlanta!
LOL! Too Funny!
drmaryb (*_*)
December 9th, 2010
2:33 am
Silly Rabbit! Trix are for Kids!
Rufus1 said this:
“The HATRED for Marvin is so Great that want to trade him for players that don’t make us a better team or trades the other team would never do. He still is the best wing defender on the team. He is still 6′9 and 240lbs who can defend 3 positions, that will be very im portant during the playoffs. ”
The HATRED? I never read where anyone said, they HATE Marvin – Person? Maybe Hate his GAME! Which is fair as a fan’s opinion. Everyone on here is entitled to that! It’s a Blog – Rufus1. That’s what Blogs do.
In the MJ era, the Player said: “Don’t Player Hate!” Don’t Hate the Player – Hate the Game! Well, many on here: Hate Marvin’s Game.
If Marvin could just aspire to be Lamar Odom, and play like him?
We would all be estatic! Personally, I wish Marvin well, playing in a change of scenery may be just what the doctor ordered: see Michael Beasely in Minny.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 9th, 2010
2:40 am
When Bibby was asked on Hawks 360, what he thought of Marvin?
He said this:
“He is really tall and shoots free throws well.”
Nuff – Said! Is that all you get these days for 35M?
northcyde
December 9th, 2010
2:46 am
OK Rev . . . you’re irrational.
The fact is that Marvin has had 3 straight bad games. Before that, he had 4 straight good games. The Hawks are also 15 – 4 when Marvin is in the lineup. And when he was out, people were missing his defense and saying that we needed him.
Marvin is who he is . . . a guy that may or may not show up on any given night. He probably won’t be the star people want him to be. And because he’s not guaranteed 10+ shots a game, he may or may not produce.
It is what it is.
It’s funny though. People love Josh Smith all of a sudden again, but he had 4 lackluster games before these last 2 great games he had.
It simply is what it is around here. If someone plays well, people act like they’re an all-world player. If someone plays bad, he’s complete garbage.
To me, it just doesn’t make sense to be stressing out about Marvin. He’s a secondary player. If he plays well, that’s great. If he doesn’t, just reduce his minutes.
MsDee
December 9th, 2010
4:43 am
@northcyde,
Great point on Marvin but all we truly are asking for out of Marvin is at least SOME CONSISTENCY with WIDE OPEN JUMP SHOTS!!! Not asking him to make the tough ones or the contested ones…JUST THE WIDE OPEN ones!! Heck, if Josh can make his jumpers now, why in the world cant Marvin, the pure shooter, make his????????
SUPERIORBLOGMAN
December 9th, 2010
5:24 am
22 PTS,14REB, 2 BLOCKED SHOTS, 38 minutes of play and his team won. No I am not writing about Al Horford nor Josh Smith. I am writing of Jason Thompson’s statline. You know the guy that was supposedly offered for Jeff Teague. Maybe that was just a rumor but it is a nasty one showing once again that Rick Sund has no clue, but the few insightful ones that post here were upset and new that that would have been a golden move from the time it was leaked. We are doomed to mediocrity by Rick Sund and the ASG not by Joe Johnson’s contract or the fact that he is not Kobe or Wade, not by Smoove’s erratic play that pisses us all off at times, not by Al being inadequate in size. We are doomed by Sund and the ASG and there unwillingness to care enough to make the moves that present themselves and that would make us better.
MsDee
December 9th, 2010
6:11 am
WOW..Nash with 8 TO’S and only 11 pts..truly LOOKS like he wants OUT OF PHOENIX!! His mind isnt there with that team anymore..he has no help there..J Richardson w/ 4pts, G. Hill w/ 10, C. Frye w/11, and J Chills w/ 7..WE COULD USE YA NASH, COME ON TO DA ATL!!
MsDee
December 9th, 2010
6:12 am
Come on to da ATL, Nash..make Horford your new AMARE!!
dukester
December 9th, 2010
7:26 am
Well I am just waking up time to make my morning Marvin Williams bash. Did Marvin get traded over night while I slept like a angel?? Darn o well by looking at the previous post we have some fans that wish not to join the bandwagon on not getting Marvin traded.
Ok here is why I want Marvin traded so bad. He has no heart!! Yes he is 6′ 9″ 240lbs. So what the lion on the wizard of oz was mean and grizzly too!! are you joking. LOL
All the Marvin trade wishers let’s say it all at one time “waterboy!!” yep that guy was the smallest slowest weakest person on the field but that guy had determination and heart that Marvin cant pay for with the 50 or so million dollars and about 30 more to steal from the hawks.
Look man Josh has a bad attitude, Jamal can be streaky, Teague cant shoot the outside shot, Zaza cant jump. We all have problems but whe you have no heart, no will power, no desire there is nothing I can do with you.
Hey guess who else is 6′9″ 240 lbs? Lebron James can someone tell me the difference between Lebron and Marvin? Heart!!!!! Marvin has a tremendous skill set man no denying that but what good isit if you cant assert it on your opponent. Quit taking up for this guy lets all join together in one voice and demand ASG make a move on this guy so we can at least have shot aat competing.
drmaryb (*_*)
December 9th, 2010
7:49 am
Jason Thompson?
His uncle is my X-Ray Supplier and Technician for the practice. Jason is his Sister’s son. Listen, Jason has Family in Atlanta and no doubt he is a great guy and all. But, he has never had a stat-line like that before. A fluke? Probably, and BTW, who was the opponent?
Here’s my point: The Hawks do NOT need another PF, we got like 5 of those alteady. You don’t trade Teague a dire need at PG, for a sixth PF! That makes no sense and makes this team more lop-sided than it already is.
Please, explain your rationale Sir?
dap01
December 9th, 2010
7:52 am
Best post; Rufus1. Thanks for helping us realize we are playing well. We have a coach. We have a chance against bigger teams. We have a bench. We are hustling. If JJ can try to fit in to this winning formula, we will be very good.
dukester
December 9th, 2010
8:05 am
@drmaryb I think the rationale behind trading for Thompson is first off he would play center for us. He would immediately be a upgrade over anyone we have except of course Al. Seeing the way we play when Al plays PF and Josh SF (of course not full time) it would be a upgrade. He is young atheletic and can play defense and can score. Is he a 20 and 10 guy like the night he had stated above? Of course not. But I think he could be a 10 and 12 guy and provide some good interior defense.
Now as far as losing Teague yes we are very thin at point guard. We would have to sign somebody off of the street to come in and play. I mean is Acie Law any worse than Teague. He is on the street as I type. Teague is player that we could move and he can be replaced.
northcyde
December 9th, 2010
10:13 am
@ MsDee . . . I agree. He shoud at least be making open jumpshots. But he shoud do exactly what I was saying that JJ should do ( before the injury was exposed ). And that is abandon the 3 pointer.
He’s shooting 19% from that range, which means that he’s potentially wasting a possession everytime he takes that shot. So he should completely abandon the shot altogether and either take the 20 footer, or go to the basket.
But he obviously does serve a purpose on this team from a defensive standpoint. If anything, that’s the strength he brings to the team right now.
*******
As for the others who are constantly trying to trade Marvin . . lol. If you were a GM, would you trade for Marvin? Especially with his contract?
The people that refuse to constantly bash Marvin, or give him credit for “something”, are not Marvin lovers. He’s simply a role player that may or may not show up.
One more stat, for those of you who swear by the Win Score statistic.
Al Horford is far and away the leader in Win Score per 48 minutes. Smith is second. Bibby is third.
Who is 4th?
Marvin Williams.
northcyde
December 9th, 2010
10:21 am
And I agree with the good Dr. Trade for another PF? Nah. Either get us a competent PG here, or a competent C here.
And Acie is a complete bust folks. If he couldn’t make it in Memphis as a backup PG, it’s not going to happen for him. I would rather bring Flip back than Acie. And God knows what Flip is doing these days. Probably selling insurance or something.
Astro Joe
December 9th, 2010
10:37 am
northcyde, Damien Wilkins is only one week removed from possibly doing the same thing Flip is doing. And now folk want to make him a starter for the team.
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2010
10:46 am
@northcyde – “To me, it just doesn’t make sense to be stressing out about Marvin. He’s a secondary player. If he plays well, that’s great. If he doesn’t, just reduce his minutes.”
I’d be fine with reducing his minutes. I don’t think I’ve ever called for him to be traded. I like Marvin and have given him kudos when he has played well. But when you are a professional you don’t get to decide when you want to show up or when you want to fight for a rebound.
I am angry at Marvin because he could add more to this team than he does. He is inconsistent in his performance and mindset. It seems to me that Marvin could fight through these mental issues if he had the DESIRE to do so.
I understand that all athletes have off-nights. This is part of what makes sports so entertaining. The unexpected can always happen. But Marvin is very consistent in his inconsistency. We all know that he will disappear for stretches of games at a time.
I would not spend this much mental or emotional energy on Marvin except I see him as an important piece of the team. He is more than one fifth of the whole. He not only provides some of the better man-to-man defense but he is that extra option that many teams don’t have. Teams have to account for JJ & Jamal’s creativity, Horford’s mid-range jumpshot, Josh’s inside (and now outside) game, and Bibby’s 3pt shot. And with Drew’s motion offense this puts incredible pressure on the other team. The Hawks are a nightmare to defend – IF Marvin decides to show up.
I would be disappointed if the Hawks traded Marvin because they would not get quality in return. I see the quality in him IF he would just find it in him to use it.
dukester
December 9th, 2010
10:54 am
@northcyde I believe Thompson is a competent center. I have saw the kid play several times. I mean when you say competent center do you mean a legit 7 footer? I mean he is 6′ 11″ he has a knack for rebounding and interior defense. He is under 25 and he makes less than 3 million dollars. Not sure what you mean by “competent center”. Let’s see competent center Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Shaquille Oneal,Tyson Chandler, all of these guys are 7 foot. None of them can be had for Teague. LOL You actually made my point by choosing Flip Murray I love the guy. My point about Acie was that a player like that can be had off the street to replace Teague if we traded for Thompson and litterally no drop off at our back up point guard spot. Not many times you get to trade a back up point guard for a 6′11″ F/C. And by the way we dont have a back log at Power Forward we only have 2. LOL
Check Thompson out you might be suprised the kid can play.
Rufus1
December 9th, 2010
10:56 am
Defense Wins Championships!!!!!
Did you any of you see what the Bucks wing players did to the Hawks…..I DID!
Did you see the defense the “DUCK” played against IGGY, GAY and Morrow. I think Morrow scored 1 Basket when Marvins was playing him…..THE DUCK CAN PLAY “D”
I am not saying you shouldn’t be upset about his offense inconsistancy, but to say he is worthless is an overstatement.
Some people have watched Wilkins play 20mins of basketball and are saying he is better than Marvin….REALLY…..I CALL THAT HATE!
PS. When I stated HATRED I was talking about his “GAME”….Not about him as a person.
Rod from College Park
December 9th, 2010
11:07 am
Rufus1,
“The HATRED for Marvin is so Great that want to trade him for players that don’t make us a better team or trades the other team would never do. He still is the best wing defender on the team. He is still 6′9 and 240lbs who can defend 3 positions, that will be very im portant during the playoffs.”
I have probably been the main one that everyone says is a Marvin hater, but I have also said that he seems like a nice young man. No hate for him as a person, hate for his game and his effort. That being said, his game is terrible. Your statement that he is the best wing defender on the team is not true. Joe is the best wing defender, that is why he always ends up having to check Marvin’s man, and now Damien Wilkins and Josh Smith are better wing defenders. I know somebody will say Josh is only a good weakside defender, but that is BS. The guy finished second in the defensive player of the year voting for a reason ot just because he is a weakside defender only. Just the fact that he is checking you makes guys have to change their shots, or think of another way to score. No one is intimidated when they see Marvin checking them. He also can’t defend 3 positions effectively, so I have no idea why you would make that statement. Every player on the floor could be matched up with a guard, center or forward, the question is can you effectively guard the guy in front of you. Marvin is an average defender at best. His only real strength is free throw shooting, as Bibby said.
northcyde,
All of Marvin’s +/- nubers and win score statistics look good because of the fact that he is on the floor for a large amount of minutes on a winning team. They really mean nothing. I think I have seen you post info about Jamal, and they show him in a bad light, but how many games have we won because of him? Please, off the top of your head, in a three year period, tell me how many games have we won because of something that Marvin Williams did. I would say maybe 5 to 10. You say he is a role player, and it is what it is, but I say you don’t pay role players 8 mill per over 5 years, and give them almost 30 minutes per game. He is fair game, and will continue to get blasted as long as his game stays below average, and his effort stays below average. His is not paid like a below average small forward in the league, or a role player. Bibby said, he is tall and can shoot free throws, that should tell you all you need to know.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2010
11:08 am
I’ll admit that I haven’t seen a lot of Jason Thompson, but from what I have seen, he has Solo’s body type. I don’t deny that he has skills, especially on the offensive end, and depending on what you think of Teague he may be worth that trade. But he is not going to help guard centers any more than Collins and Powell currently do.
Rev in Tampa
December 9th, 2010
11:10 am
I have pointed out multiple times that Marvin did not allow the Sixers starting small forward to score any points all game the first time they played. Marvin has it in him, but, being that he is a professional, he must DECIDE to bring it every game.
Until he can decide to bring it he should be considered the odd man out when JJ comes back. Right now is Marvin’s time to shine.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 9th, 2010
11:14 am
And as for Marvin, we all know he CAN play good D and he CAN score. The problem is that it has been over five years now and he has proven that he doesn’t do this on a consistent basis. At this point it is fair to assume that he never will. The history of the league is littered with talented players like him who never put it together.
Would I mind having him around at a minimum salary? Of course not. But at his contract, he is a net loss that needs to be traded for the best salary cap interest of the team