Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 80, Magic 74
Orlando–Ugly? Yes. Worthless? Depends on your perspective, I guess.
–”It was a bad basketball game and we played worse than they did,” Magic coach Stan Van Gundy said.
– You would think this kind of game would favor the Magic, who are the grinders to Atlanta’s runners. “It’s encouraging to see see guys stick with it and keep defending and keep rebounding,” Al said. “It was ugly but we’ll take it.”
– No use in the Hawks pretending was a normal December W.
– “I ain’t even going to lie to you,” Smoove said. “After losing in the playoffs by like an average of 30 points and playing good enough to win last time but coming up short, we was just determined to get a win here.”
– “Mentally this was a big boost for our guys,” L.D. said. “We’ve come up empty-handed here for a very long time. Last time we were close and we again came up empty-handed.”
– “It’s really big for us,” Bibby said.
– “It’s a good feeling,” Al said. “We’ve struggled against them in the past. We really fully committed to coach’s game plan.”
– A big part of that plan includes not scrambling the entire defense in an effort to slow down Dwight. Twin held his own and even had Dwight doing some of his whining to the refs.
- “Awesome,” L.D. said. “I thought [Collins] did a great job. We know what he’s about. He can play Dwight straight up. Dwight is going to score, we know that, but we wanted to make him earn it. It took us out of the double teams.”
– Zaza also did a respectable job. Etan, not so much. Josh Powell even got a turn on Dwight and actually did OK.
– With Dwight pretty much in check without the need for doubles, the Hawks didn’t allow as much space “We did a good job of running them off the 3-point line and made the inside shots for Dwight harder,” Bibby said.
– You can say the Magic missed some open shots, which they did. But the same thing happened the last time they played Atlanta, too, so perhaps the Hawks at least figured out a blueprint they can believe in.
– No doubt the Hawks benefited from Jameer’s (ill) absence (and maybe the sickly Magic players, too). Keep this up and soon there are going to be more questions about whether they benefit from J.J.’s absence, too (or at least the version of J.J. we’d seen this season).
– They are 3-1 without him, the one loss a close one at Miami. “We try to distribute to the hot hand,” L.D. said. “We look for any matchup in our favor. We try to get more people included. We become a little less predictable.”
– Really, the iso late show has just shifted to Jamal. For the second straight game that was a mixed bag down the stretch. The Hawks led by five and were ready to pull away when he tried to force a runner in the lane that led to a turnover and Redick’s and-1.
– That’s when the Hawks turned to a better option: Josh jacking up jumpers. Seriously, what were the odds that the Hawks would win with Josh busting out a crossover, fadeway J in crunch time?
– Or that Powell, hardly explosive around the rim, would miss a point blank shot, somehow collect the rebound while surrounding by three Magic defenders including Dwight, and then draw a foul?
– The next big play of that stretch was much more probable: Bibby burying a 3-pointer. He made another one after VC blew by Josh for a couple layups. “Everybody hung in there,” he said. “Sometimes we get discouraged [when they don't make shots] but tonight we didn’t get discouraged.
– Bibby is quietly having a very good season which, considering his usual distaste for interviews, is probably the way he likes it. “He’s really played at a very, very high level,” L.D. said.
– Bibby played 21 minutes after halftime. “I asked him how he was feeling and he said he was fine,” Drew said. “In most situations I wouldn’t play him that much but I saw this as an opportunity to get the win. I decided to keep him out there and he came through.”
– Marvin started 0 for 5 from the field and all of those misses were ugly. He never did attack the basket. Marvin limped off just before halftime but started the second half.
– But wasn’t the only guy who couldn’t find his shot and wouldn’t go to the basket. Josh and Al were 16 of 31, everyone else 17 of 54. And you know the Hawks aren’t being aggressive when Bibby leads them with three free-throw attempts.
– Al sometimes seemed to eager to go at Rashard Lewis. Three of his four turnovers came as a result of trying to set up Lewis, who swiped at the ball.
– DNP-CD for Teague.
– The Magic weren’t exactly giving the Hawks much credit. “Even at 80 to 74, it wasn’t even a real hard-fought game,” Van Gundy said. “It was just a bad game and we were worse than they were.”
–”Atlanta is a pretty good team and guys were trying to get back into game shape playing,” Dwight said. “And the rest of guys were playing two tough games on the road and short-handed. I think a lot of guys are exhausted. It was a tough game to lose. It gave Atlanta a little confidence. But we’ll be sure to erase that next time.”
MC
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339 comments Add your comment
Banks
December 7th, 2010
9:47 am
Just Like I predicted no one has anything to say about running Josh and LD out of th ATL. Talk about the obvious weak link Marvin 2 pts 1 rebound. Can one of you Marivn supporters tell me how is contributing? Please I will be waiting to hear your answer. Let Damien start and sit Marvin
ATL is a Baseball town
December 7th, 2010
10:21 am
yodaddy,
you are an IDIOT!! Stop living in a fantasy world. Yeah lets bring Andre Iguodala when we have Joe Johnson locked up for years.
dukester
December 7th, 2010
10:30 am
@ATL is a Baseball town
What would be wrong with bringing in Andre Iguodala? What does Joe Johnson contract have to do with him? I understand what you mean as far as the 50 million contract he has. Yes in terms of money that is bad.
But here is how you equate it. Between Marvin and Zaza contract over the same amount of years it totals to be about 45 million. So are you telling me that over the next 4 years you rather have Marvin averaging 8 pts and Zaza averaging 3 pts. Or would you rather have a 15-17 pt tough perimeter defender 26 year old who could play SG or SF. 50 million is 50 million.
darrell starks
December 7th, 2010
11:17 am
IGG 2 the hawks would take this team 2 the next level and get the city excited for and nba championship, the highlight factory would sell out more games and ASG will benefit in revenue it’s would be a smart business move.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
December 7th, 2010
11:21 am
MARVIN, TEAGUE, JAMAL AND 1ST FOR LOU, IGG
STARTER LOU, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, COLLINS
BENCH BIBBY, IGG, DAMIEN, POWEL, ZAZA
RESERVE MOE, JC2
IGG WOULD BE THE NEXT 6TH MAN OF THE YEAR AND WOULD DOMINATE THE SECOND UNIT.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
yodaddy
December 7th, 2010
11:25 am
thanks @dukester I was about to get @ATLisaBaseballTown
My job blocks ‘games’ pages so I can’t do the ESPN trade machine
but things I know
- Marvin & Iggy both locked up through 2014
- Marvin & Zaza’s contracts equal about 12 mill and with the trade exception would equal about 15
- IDK how long Zaza’s contract is but it’s too long
- Iggy has a 14.5 mill/year contract
- Josh Smith will be here for a few more years and Al & Joe are locked up as well
- Iguodala is not a disappearing act; he can score well and defend elite players, he does not get tired and fits the athletic multi-dimensional type of player that the Hawks roster is made of. Former All Star, US Olympic Gold…a high energy competitor and defensive minded player that doesn’t need the rock to be effective but is effective with the rock
- As much as i like JC2 (or Teague), I would even throw him in there and future draft picks. It would leave us with vet minimums and D-Leaguers to fill out the roster but it hasn’t worked out too bad for the Heat. At least we would have 5 legitimate starters.
I understand it would handcuff the team but either we go for it or we don’t. I also understand that there’s no way Philly would go for that trade because it doesn’t help them one bit unless we threaten some families in the process.
I’m just stating that with a lineup looking like that..the Hawks would be awfully tough for anybody. Defense dramatically improves and we would get consistency from the SF position. Iguodala would never have 2 points and 1 rebound in 25 minutes of play…just not happening..and D Wade will not post up on AI every chance he gets and Jamal can take his weak defense out on Carlos Arroyo (even though JC1 is competing admirably on defense).
JeJe
December 7th, 2010
11:29 am
Enter your comments here
JeJe
December 7th, 2010
11:29 am
“I ain’t even going to lie to you,” Smoove said. “After losing in the playoffs by like an average of 30 points and playing good enough to win last time but coming up short, we was just determined to get a win here.”
Are we sure this guy graduated from high school?
yodaddy
December 7th, 2010
11:43 am
@ JeJe
He graduated to the bank
i_am_soulstar
December 7th, 2010
11:44 am
Anyone who follows the Hawks knows they have a knack for posting W’s in pretty games. I’ll take an ugly win from this team any day of the week. Go Hawks!
i_am_soulstar
December 7th, 2010
12:04 pm
I hope the Hawks remember Dwight’s postgame comments for our next home game VS the Magic. Make him a believer.
I’d give the game ball to Larry Drew if it were possible.
He made a line-up change that worked wonders defensively, and had the best rotations I’ve seen all season.
i_am_soulstar
December 7th, 2010
12:05 pm
@ yodaddy
Co-sign the hell outta that
JeJe
December 7th, 2010
12:10 pm
The Hawks aren’t mentally strong enough to remember comments players have made.
Players over the last decade have called us a cupcake team, have mocked us (the Celtics), but we don’t do anything.
Marvin Williams would probably be glad he came off the bench. The guy does not want to be good in this league. He is useless and a pathetic joke and disgrace. He will not have another good game for at least 3 weeks
bigdave
December 7th, 2010
12:20 pm
from November 8 post game blog:
At least the Hawks now believe they have a plan that can work against Orlando. “No question,” Al said. “I think now more than ever. It’s a new year. We are a different team. We feel confident. It was encouraging.”
– — “Definitely this is something we can build on,.” J.J. said. “We feel like we can honestly play with any team in this league. I think our coaching staff does a great job of preparing us and getting us ready for games.”
i_am_soulstar
December 7th, 2010
12:28 pm
Judging from a few background locker room conversations I’ve heard when a player was being interviewed in the locker room, the players do discuss comments like that. Especially Josh, who was very vocal each time (no surprise there). They’re not too happy with anti-Hawks comments from NBA coaches, players, and/or teams when you hear them talking about it in the background, but they address it professionally in public and in interviews, or they don’t address it all. I wouldn’t have it any other way.
cp
December 7th, 2010
12:33 pm
It was a good win last night regardless if it was ugly… A road win is a road win. It was also against a quality opponent…
I cant believe there are still Marvin “invisible man” Williams supporters on here. This is his what 6th year? What you see with him is what you get at this point. I don’t care how young he is dude just isn’t going to improve that much. If anything he has regressed over the years. I doubt Philly would take that deal if we offered it to them but I wouldn’t be mad if we at least tried. Even coming off the bench Marvin wouldn’t be any better. He just ain’t got it in him to become a better player.
Ted M
December 7th, 2010
12:45 pm
DNP-CD for Teague. Why? especially considering no JJ.
Is Teague out of favor w/LD?
Ted M
December 7th, 2010
12:46 pm
The PTI guys on ESPN hate the Hawks.
Ted M
December 7th, 2010
12:52 pm
“Marvin limped off just before halftime but started the second half.”
Marvin has been limping since his (non-starting) days at NC. He is always leaning over at the waist too like an old man with a bad back. He generally moves with a total lack of grace.
2nd pick in draft…holy crap Billy!
lewis
December 7th, 2010
12:54 pm
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/hawks-fail-to-embrace-undervalued-horford/
Let’s make this simple and direct: Al Horford is the Atlanta Hawks’ best player. Joe Johnson may make more money and Josh Smith may be a SportsCenter staple, but Horford is Atlanta’s most prolific scorer (he leads the team in points per minute), their top rebounder (he also leads in rebounds per minute and rebounding rate), a willing and productive passer, and the team’s most versatile and effective defender.
Sadly, all of Horford’s incredible production and influence come in spite of his inexplicably limited role on the team.
One of the league’s great curiosities is why Horford isn’t a featured component of the Hawks’ offense. Atlanta ranks in the top 10 in offensive efficiency (points scored per 100 possessions), but even that isn’t a valid excuse to neglect such a substantial talent in favor of Horford’s less efficient teammates.
Yesterday’s win against the Magic may seem to counter the idea that Horford is under-utilized, but Saturday night’s game between the Hawks and Heat is a far better example of the team’s odd treatment of their most productive player.
In that game, the Hawks, who were without Johnson due to injury, trailed by 14 points at halftime. The final verdict already seemed to be decided; the Hawks’ offense was miserable in the first half (they made 15 of their 43 field goal attempts, good for a 34.8 field goal percentage) and didn’t show any signs of life or hope in the game’s initial 24 minutes.
Atlanta came out of the locker room, however, intent on utilizing Horford in the pick-and-pop against Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Joel Anthony, a plan which worked to perfection. Despite the astoundingly slow pace of the game, Horford scored 14 points in the third quarter on 6-for-6 shooting from the field. It was a virtuoso performance by Horford, who was able to attack the weaknesses of the Heat’s defense like no other Hawk. His teammates continued to shoot poorly from the field (the non-Horford Hawks made 38.4 percent of their shots in the third quarter), but Horford almost single-handedly cut his team’s deficit down to two points.
So Larry Drew did what any sensible coach would do when one of his players was dominating his matchup: he sat Horford for the first five minutes of the fourth quarter. Horford’s teammates then naturally (and unintentionally) worked away from him when he returned to the game. They granted Horford – the team’s best player, the hot hand, the clear matchup problem for Miami – an astounding two field goal attempts in the fourth quarter. Atlanta was outscored by 10 points in the process, and a winnable game against a quality opponent slipped through the Hawks’ fingers.
What’s worse: Joe Johnson (and his 15.5 field goal attempts per game) was not available to take shots away from Horford. The culprits were Mike Bibby, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Jamal Crawford, and Josh Powell. Those were the players eating up Horford’s opportunities in this regrettable game, a fact that’s more depressing the more time you spend with it.
If only this were the first time. Rarely does Horford get both the minutes and shot attempts he deserves, as a perfect storm of questionable substitutions and poor teammate discretion keeps one of the best big players in the league under wraps.
In spite of the limitations with which his team has shackled him, Horford still has the résumé of a most valuable player candidate. He may not have the name recognition of some other high-profile stars, but he is wildly productive for a team that doesn’t provide him many opportunities. His 18.7 points and 10.5 rebounds per 36 minutes are elite numbers, and when combined with a league-leading 59.8 percent mark shooting from the field and one of the N.B.A.’s lowest turnover rates, Horford’s incredible value becomes apparent.
It’s a shame that Horford is only the league’s best-kept secret rather than a renowned marquee player, but we have only the unwitting Hawks to blame. Horford has done his part, and one can only hope that eventually, his coach and teammates realize just how tremendous a player he is.
Rob Mahoney is an obsessive student of professional basketball, dedicated to the minutiae, the overarching themes and everything in between. You can read more of his work at TheTwoManGame.com, HardwoodParoxysm.com and ProBasketballTalk.com.
Geemack
December 7th, 2010
12:57 pm
Ted M
Do you know why they hate the Hawks? Because the Hawks quit, while the nation watched the Magic whip them like dogs and they did nothing to respond.
This is the same team with a different coach. Look at this years Celtics game at home, 1st Magic game, & the game against the Bucks at home, all blowouts.
Double Zero Eight
December 7th, 2010
1:00 pm
Marvin has peaked and is on his downward spiral. Many of us have worked with people that are merely content with collecting a paycheck. Marvin fits that bill. He does just enough to get by.
A previous blogger was correct in saying he is due to have another good game in a couple of weeks.
Ted M
December 7th, 2010
1:07 pm
Yep
jtshoopsblog
December 7th, 2010
1:12 pm
Atlanta should have won by more considering that most of the magic played with the flu. Their close win looked quite pathetic in my eyes. Hope they don’t play that way against the Nets.
ATL LIVING INDY RAISED
December 7th, 2010
1:14 pm
TRADE ISO JOE OR BUY HIM OUT IF POSSIBLE…ISO JOE WILL TURN OUT TO BE ANOTHER MICHAEL REDD, ALAN HOUSTON, STEVE FRANCIS, STEPHON MARBURY, AND TERRELL BRANDON..ALL THESE GUYS ENDED UP GETTING PAID EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONEY in YEARS that they didnt play……NO MORE ISO JOE..NO MORE….GO HAWKS !!
FloydPeppler
December 7th, 2010
1:22 pm
I believe the reason why the Hawks beat the Magic last night was NOT BECAUSE JOE JOHNSON WAS OUT AND THE HAWKS ARE FINDING OUT THEY DONT NEED HIM. The Hawks beat the Magic last night because the Magic has WORSE PERSONNEL THAN THEY DID TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THEY WERE IN THE FINALS AGAINST THE LAKERS. Two years ago the Magic had Rafer Alsten running the point for the injured Jameer Nelson AND they had Heido Turkelu, who in my opinion is one of the fist most skilled and talented players in the NBA. With Turkelu and Alsten the Magic found their way to the NBA finals. Without those two the Magic have not been back to the finals. My point is that when the Magic decided to let Alsten and Turkelu go and acquire Vince Carter, everyone on the Magic management team said acquiring Vince was an upgrade. But I knew it was a downgrade and I knew the Magic would never return to the finals again. Right now anyone can beat the Magic, but that in no way dininishes the Hawks accomplishment last night. It was still an incredible win because under Mike Woodsen the Hawks struggled to beat the Magic. But under Drew beating the Magic is as easy as beating anyone. Its still a good Hawks team without Joe Johnson, but with Joe Johnson they are a championship calibre team as far as I can tell.
dukester
December 7th, 2010
1:26 pm
@ATL Living Indy Raised.
You are 100% right about Joe being a has been by the end of his contract. But thats the business of the NBA. Bottom line is we signed Joe for right now. This team is at it’s prime. we have a 2 or 3 year window to win a championship. If we dont by them they will blow this team up and trade Joe to a team that will be willing to take his monster contract in hopes of winning a title. Which is what we should be doing. We should be finding the weakest link (Marvin Williams) and trading him.
As I said before trading Marvin for just about anybody right now would be ok with me. My list first would be a center but it seems the hawks feel they are ok at that position. So I would start with Carmelo, Iguodala, Rip Hamilton, Baron Davis any number of older savvy play makers that we can pay for a couple years to try and win a ring.
Point Blank we have about 50 million on this roster that we need to convert to real production. Marvin Williams and Zaza contracts total that. We are gonna pay the 50 million any way we might as well add a playmaker to this squad.
lewis
December 7th, 2010
1:30 pm
if we beat the spurs and nets i’ll be happy.
Regarding collins,
start him against any center bigger then Al.
bring him off the bench before Zaza
If we beat New Jersey and San Antonio and get to 16-8, redemption begins.
JeJe
December 7th, 2010
1:40 pm
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/hawks-fail-to-embrace-undervalued-horford/
LD, READ THAT. STOP TAKING THE GUY OUT WITH 2 FOULS AND RUN PLAYS FOR HIM
JESUS
lewis
December 7th, 2010
2:44 pm
The Hawks can’t seem to break their habit of playing from the outside in, rather than inside out. It hurts us primarily at the end of games to rely on high usage high volume scorers because they need to take 20 shots in order to score 20 points.
I like Jamal off the bench to give Bibby rest and to score in quarters 1-3 when there is no pressure, doing what he does best. Dude is good for scoring points quickly when we can’t hit squat, he’s a good player but its clear to see why he doesn’t belong on the court in the 4th quarter. Bibby is a liability on defense too, but he’s more veteran savvy in the way that Collins is, knowing where to be and when to be there, even if his physical limitations prevent that from happening.
But, tell me why Jamal at 42% FG and 34% from 3, and a defensive liability, deserves PT over a defensive stopper? I challenge all of you to give me one good reason as to why he gets the ball at the end of games over Bibby, Al, or Joe, when he so often puts up 6-17 FGM/FGA.
ISO on the Hawks, at the end of games, should be reserved for the teams best offensive players. Why put our fate in the hands of a streaky, high volume shooter, when you have guys much better suited to get the job done. Al Horford and Joe Johnson need to be geting the ball at the end of games.
ISO-JOE is acceptable at the end of close games, more-so than ISO Jamal because he almost always draws the double team, which allows him to kick out to Bibby. He is also the best in the league at posting up smaller defenders, and sinking his turnaround, fadeaway floater in the paint, which looks difficult but is likely his highest % shot.
ISO-AL at the end of games is a necessary idea that will allow us to compete against elite teams, its development accelerated by JJ’s injury. Al has phenomenal stamina for a big man. He’s proved, in limited opportunities that after playing 30 minutes in the first 3 quarters, that fatigue does not affect him as much offensively, like it does Marvin, Bibby and Josh. Al is shooting 60% from the field. He’s shooting the jumper and the jump hook with more confidence than ever. His FG% is not a hoax based on lack of attempts, this dude is the real deal, and he’s shooting a team best 85% at the line.
The end game decision of Jamal vs Bibby vs Marvin should be based on Al, and the opposing team’s big men. In my opinion, Collins (offensive liability) should’ve finished the game yesterday, allowing Al to continue to exploit Rashard, keeping Marvin (offensive and defensive liability) and Jamal (offensive and defensive liability) off the court.
Instead of relying on the fate of Jamal Crawford, though it won’t look pretty or be as exciting, (when he hits shots that he can’t and won’t hit in the playoffs to win regular season games), we can rely on better defense and higher % shooters/shots to get the job done. Want to elaborate more on this topic but laptop is about to die.
MsDee
December 7th, 2010
3:02 pm
@JeJe
I agree. If I was Horford, I would sit down with LD and truly ask for HIS explanation as to why he isnt getting his hands on the ball at the end of games???? Once I hear what LD says, I would then put the pressure on LD to make the RIGHT DECISION come next close game in the 4th. By Horford talking with LD like that b4 a game, makes LD think about his decision next time the Hawks are in that predicament and also might keep LD from leaving Horford out the game as long. I have NO PROBLEM with LD taking Horford out with 2 fouls, my only problem is leaving him out TOO long.
Grandad
December 7th, 2010
3:08 pm
Happy Holidays ~ G-dads Pre-Christmas Special ~ Trade O’the Day
Houston gets:
Marv & Jeff Teague
Hawks get:
Battier & Kyle Lowry
Dec 15th of course!
Merry Christmas all!
Blast
December 7th, 2010
3:10 pm
Sweet, sweet, super sweet win over Orlando last night. Game was gruelling, disjointed, had no flow, and refs had a lot to do with that. I have never seen a more horribly officiated game than the first half. Hawks were getting whacked left and right, Howard was elbowing people in the guts, pushing down Ethan and no calls. Yet on the other end, Hawks were getting called for phanthom 3 second violations, 3 straight times Hawks turned the ball over because of an imagined violation, but they wheathered on, and got the win. At one point when Hawks were called for a 3 second violation, I read Vince Carter’s lips and even he was stunned. He said ‘wow!’ Luckilly, calls kind of evened out in the 2nd half, with Dwight moaning and whinning to the refs, after camping in the lane for minutes, or finally getting called for an offensive foul.
Hope the win will jumpstart the Hawks. One thing I did not like in the first half, though. There were a couple of times when I thought Hawks could have come up with a lose ball if they had made a little effort. The first was when Jamal thought the ball would go out of bounce, but Duhon made the great save that landed him in the seats. On another play, Zaza could have grabbed a missed shot, but allowed it to go out, assuming it would be Hawks ball. When you are the Hawks playing Orlando in Orlando with how the stupid refs were calling the game, you take nothing for granted. You make no assumptions. You must play every possession like it was your last. Having said that, it was nice to see Josh dive on the floor for a loose ball that resulted in Hawks getting the ball back on the jump.
I would love to see Drew start Twin tonight versus New Jersey. Howard clearly did not know what to make of this guy that was almost as big as him, and Lopez always plays great against Horford.
Don’t care what ESPN boys say, don’t care if Nelson didn’t play, don’t give a rat’s ass if the entire Magic team had a bug, it was a great win. Magic is deep and talented enough to overcome their starting point guard been out.
Go Hawks, go!
Rod from College Park
December 7th, 2010
3:10 pm
I’m glad that many people on this blog are starting to see the light on Marvin “Duck” Williams. I have been making these points about him for 3 or 4 years. The thing that all of you must realize when you list these trades with Marvin Williams involved is that they will not happen. No other organization in the league, besides the Hawks actually thing that Marvin Williams is any good. I contend that he would not even be a above average D-League player. Billy Knight should never get another NBA job for drafting him, and Rick Sund should loose his job today, for actually offering him an absurd contract when he could have signed a Matt Barnes, Damien Wilkins, Jarvis Hayes type of player, who could produce just as much or more than Marvin, for no more that 2 mill per season.
Marvin won’t get any better because he does not have that “dog” in him. He also is very clumsy and goofy, and by the age of 25, if you have not lost your clumsiness or goofiness, you are probably going to be that way for life. He seems like a well educated, nice young man, but as a professional basketball player, he is one of the worst I have seen. Most of his points for his career have come from wide open jump shots or fast break buckets. He rarely creates his own shots, and has no post game what so ever. I am starting to think that someone in Hawks mangement is related to him, or he has some dirt on someone, because there is no reason why he should continue to be a starter on the Hawks. I very seriously doubt that he would start on any other team in the NBA. Damien Wilkins, if given the same minutes as Marvin, will produce the same or better than Marvin, as has has proved in 2 games, that he is a much better defender. I am hoping that maybe Nique has finally given up on Marvin, and convinced management to give his nephew a shot. Damien Wilkins should be starting for Marvin, because he is simply a better player.
ant banks
December 7th, 2010
3:13 pm
i wonder where this organization would be had we got the sheldon pick correct and acie law. i ain’t goin’ to mention marvin at the #2 since we got josh at #17.
jus’ wonderin’
dukester
December 7th, 2010
3:32 pm
@ant banks if we could anwser those questions we might be in hawk heaven LOL
@Rod from College Park- well you know i have supported you all along with the shipping of Marvin.
But I have to believe some team wants to rebuild and will give us a savvy veteran for a young Marvin. I mean really I would take baron davis right now for Marvin. At least we would have another player in hear that we could go to and has heart. I mean we have to do something in these next 2 or 3 years or its over. Anybody man I mean you have to expect a garbage for garbage trade neither team will be getting a upgrade but at least we would could get a vet that could average freaking 5 pts a night!! LOL
sam'l
December 7th, 2010
3:36 pm
So Magic were sick……we didn’t have Jjohnson……
Sounds like sour manipulative grapes from Van Gundy…like Brown used to do at Indiana when they lost an occasional game to the Hawks.
Congratulations Hawks….
We have been saying the only reason the hawks couldn’t win it iall has been orlando……
well…..
what next?
SteveW
December 7th, 2010
3:36 pm
If Marvin and Mo’ still aren’t fully recovered from their knee injuries, I say put them on IR, sign Jarvis Hayes to a 10 day contract and see what he and Wilkens can do. I think we would like the results. But we can’t do that because we brought Sy over instead of leaving him at Le Havre, and we’re at the 15 player limit. Unless we waived Etan or something.
And I’m beginning to like LD. I thought he hurt us by getting us banged up to start the regular season. Then, he almost lost the team during the 2-7 stretch. But the guy can coach. And yes we signed Collins and Etan just to play Dwight, and it’s working.
And I do think Collins could be a poor mans Ben Wallace, and I don’t mind that. He can body up most any big in the League outside of Shaq. ZaZa is our only body up guy on Shaq.
SteveW
December 7th, 2010
3:38 pm
I think the Magic are weaker this year than last. Richardson for Barnes, i think Barnes brought an edge to the Magic they’re lacking now. And that overpaid PF the Magic have seems to be getting worse. Now that’s a bad contract.
SteveW
December 7th, 2010
3:39 pm
And 10 days after JJ is back, he will be playing his All Star, elite game. We will be better. Props to Bibby for being ready to play this season. Hope he can keep it up for the whole 82.
SteveW
December 7th, 2010
3:41 pm
JC2 was inactive last night, because we knew we would need all of our bigs to play Dwight.
Coach D
December 7th, 2010
3:44 pm
HEY COACH DREW!!! Bulletin Board Material from Dwight (Whiney Hiney) Howard:
“I think a lot of guys are exhausted. It was a tough game to lose. It gave Atlanta a little confidence. But we’ll be sure to erase that next time.”
Circle the next game with the Magic, guys & GATA!!!!!!!!!!
Rod from College Park
December 7th, 2010
3:44 pm
lewis,
“But, tell me why Jamal at 42% FG and 34% from 3, and a defensive liability, deserves PT over a defensive stopper? I challenge all of you to give me one good reason as to why he gets the ball at the end of games over Bibby, Al, or Joe, when he so often puts up 6-17 FGM/FGA.
ISO on the Hawks, at the end of games, should be reserved for the teams best offensive players. Why put our fate in the hands of a streaky, high volume shooter, when you have guys much better suited to get the job done.”
Because no one else on or team besides Joe Johnson, can create their own shot. Jamal is probably the best ball handler on the team, and the best at actually taking his man off the dribble and getting open. He might not hit the shot, but he creates great looks. While Horfor has improved his game, he has no real post moves, and no go to move. He is pretty much a pick and roll or pick an pop guy. Most Hawks fans think that defense has been our main problem in the playoffs, but is you look at our second round blowout losses against Cleveland, and Orlando the last two years, we had problems scoring. In the Cleveland series we averaged 78 ppg, and in the Orlando series we averaged 81 ppg. You can not win in the playoffs if you can’t score, and the only two players on our team that are proven scorers are Jamal and Joe. Horford is becoming a go to guy this year, but he has no history of being one. Our problems are offensive in the playoffs because teams force anyone but Joe to beat them, and Jamal is probably the only guy on our roster who has that capability night in and night out. Hope that answered your question.
Blast
December 7th, 2010
3:45 pm
Can we say Road Warrior Hawks????????
Ramon
December 7th, 2010
3:59 pm
Grandad,
You know, I’ve been lobbying for Battier for the past 3 seasons to be added to this team. I’m loving what I’m seeing in Wilkins. And can only imagine how his intensity paired with Battier’s would bring a personality to this team that would only benefit the Hawks in the playoffs. Mario West always had the right mentality. He just didn’t have any skills to go with the intensity that he had. Also Battier is very familiar with the motion offense, since he’s ran it in Houston, Memphis (with Hubie Brown), and at Duke.
JeJe
December 7th, 2010
4:05 pm
“Marvin won’t get any better because he does not have that “dog” in him. He also is very clumsy and goofy, and by the age of 25, if you have not lost your clumsiness or goofiness, you are probably going to be that way for life. He seems like a well educated, nice young man, but as a professional basketball player, he is one of the worst I have seen. Most of his points for his career have come from wide open jump shots or fast break buckets. He rarely creates his own shots, and has no post game what so ever. I am starting to think that someone in Hawks mangement is related to him, or he has some dirt on someone, because there is no reason why he should continue to be a starter on the Hawks. I very seriously doubt that he would start on any other team in the NBA. Damien Wilkins, if given the same minutes as Marvin, will produce the same or better than Marvin, as has has proved in 2 games, that he is a much better defender. I am hoping that maybe Nique has finally given up on Marvin, and convinced management to give his nephew a shot. Damien Wilkins should be starting for Marvin, because he is simply a better player.”
LOL I can’t tell if Rod wrote this or I did because I say this EXACT same stuff at least 6 times a week.
And I disagree greatly with the idea that Damien would perform equal or better than Marvin given the same minutes. Cmon man. No one in this league would put up numbers that bad in the same number as PT as Marvin. Rod cmon man!!!
Marvin PUT UP 2 POINTS AND 1 REBOUND IN 21 MINUTES LAST NIGHT.
SHELDEN WILLIAMS COULD PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS IN 8 MINUTES AND HE WAS AWFUL
FIRE SUND
JeJe
December 7th, 2010
4:08 pm
*Clarification:
To say anyone would put up “equal” numbers to Marvin in those minutes is a travesty and utter disrespect to player X. What Rod meant to say is that given the same minutes, Marvin would FAR OUTPERFORM, SHOW MORE PASSION, FIRE, HEART, HUNGER, DESIRE, AND WILLINGNESS TO PLAY AT A HIGHER LEVEL THAN MARVIN AND THAT HE’D PUT UP FAR SUPERIOR NUMBERS IN EVERY CATEGORY
FIRE WOODY
Rod from College Park
December 7th, 2010
4:22 pm
JeJe,
You know we are on the same page. I put that part down about his numbers because some of the clowns on this blog want to talk about his numbers in 08-09, or how he shoots a high percentage from the field. All you have to do is watch the Hawks, and you should be able to tell how terrible he really is. He is good for about 10 games a year when he plays well, and the rest of the season he is playing his invisible man role.
Najeh Davenpoop
December 7th, 2010
4:59 pm
I should also note that I’m somewhat of an idiot, so don’t listen to me.
lewis
December 7th, 2010
5:12 pm
against teams with centers that give al trouble,
Bench -Powell/Marvin/Damien/Jamal/Teague
Start- Collins/Al/Josh/Joe/Bibby
use zaza and mo as little as possible. I’ve always liked Mo but i don’t know if he’ll ever be the same with the knee ordeal. Zaza’s only skill is drawing charges, 9/10 times he fumbles the pass or gets his shot blocked.
this shouldn’t be experimental just against Orlando. Let Collins play Shaq, Bynum, Bogut, Dwight,etc Dude has legs left he’s been chillin on the bench for a couple years now.