Atlanta Hawks: Unsolved mystery
I went down to Philips today but, due to unforeseen circumstances out of my control, I couldn’t get access to the team. (I did, however, get lots of time to hang out with the French-speaking Habs beat guys). This unfortunate turn of events (the lack of access, not the time with French Canadian hacks), combined with tight deadlines last night, means I did not get to query L.D. about the Teague situation.
So I’m not sure if Teague’s sporadic minutes lately are due to matchups (which had been L.D.’s previous explanation), some other special circumstance or are related to his performance.
Teague played early against Dallas but didn’t return after blowing a couple defensive assignments, while JC2 played 18 energetic minutes. Teague played just two minutes after halftime vs. Boston–and had a spirited exchange with coaches after L.D. called him out for missing another assignment–while Jordan played 18 minutes.
That could have just been a matter of getting Jordan some minutes in a blowout, though, and that’s how it seemed when when Teague played 16 minutes at Jersey and JC2 got a DNP-CD. But then Teague didn’t get in until garbage time vs. the Wizards while Jordan played 15 minutes.
If these are not special circumstances and JC2 is indeed taking Teague’s minutes going forward it creates some dilemmas for the Hawks.
It would make an unbalanced rotation even more lopsided if Atlanta’s only backup point guard isn’t getting playing time. It would mean less playing time for the guy whom L.D. (who still declares D matters above all else, mind you) has said is the only guard on the team who can consistently keep opponents in front of him. And it would mean more time on the floor together for Bibby and Jamal, which requires no explanation, and more minutes for JC2, who tries hard but (understandably) gets lost himself at times.
Alas, the answers to these questions will have to wait until I catch up with the team tomorrow afternoon in Manhattan. Sadly, I can’t update you on the Habs, either, because my French is rusty, and by that I mean I speak none at all.
Hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving, blog people.
MC
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77 comments Add your comment
westurd
November 26th, 2010
3:36 pm
gobble gobble….first turds
ATL FAN
November 26th, 2010
3:49 pm
Good game last night, but still proved nothing about these Hawks.
O'Brien
November 26th, 2010
4:19 pm
Thanks for the blog MC. I’m sure you picked up another 55″ flat screen this morning.
As for LD, I think he has some Woody in him.
But Woody would say one thing, and the players would do another, and Woody would nothing about it, except talk about it some more.
Jamal struggled against Dallas and Boston, and turned the ball over, but still he got his 30 minutes. Where is the accountability?
LD said if the slow starts continue, he is going to have to think about changing the lineup. Shouldnt he have thought about it already?
And if defense is what matters above all else, then how does Jamal keep getting his PT, while Teague isnt?
If LD comes out and says that Teague is not playing well, thats fine. But dont preach defense, when Marvin doesnt get more minutes, or Teague doesnt get more minutes, but Jamal and Jordan does.
ag
November 26th, 2010
4:23 pm
i am losing a lot of respect of ld. How is he blaming Teague but not holding Marvin accountable. Have some basketballs, make some changes! A win over the Wiz means nothing!. I enjoy watching JCII but we need to see changes and I have a heap of blame on Marvin!!!
Clyde
November 26th, 2010
4:31 pm
JEJE FOR BLOGGER OF THE YEAR
Terrance Williams is way better than Teague and he got sent to the Developmental League. I think the Hawks need to think about sending Teague down.
I.MUS WRITE
November 26th, 2010
4:40 pm
Teague = Acie Law…………No Jumper,No confidence, No Dogg.
Grandad
November 26th, 2010
4:41 pm
* reprinted from last blog *
G-dad’s [Joe Johnson] Trade Suggestion O’ the Day:
Houston gets:
Joe, Jeff Teague, & Marv
Hawks get:
Battier, Aaron Brooks, Kevin Martin, & Jared Jeffries (exp cont)
K.Martin and Marv can be removed from the trade;
the numbers still work.
You gotta’ love this one!
* Melvin didn’t like it.
tbhawksfan
November 26th, 2010
4:59 pm
Teague for Jason Thompson
Jamal for Hinrich
…and the roster is balanced, deep and improved.
northcyde
November 26th, 2010
5:27 pm
No need to be confused. Drew just isn’t a defensive coach.
Don Nelson used to tell his teams to defend better too. But it’s obvious what his strength as a coach was. The same goes for Drew.
That’s why Drew likes Josh Powell. Athough we could use rebounding and defense from Powell, he does come in and at least make a few shots. So Powell has a spot in the rotation.
Drew may preach defense, but does he teach defense? We know he teaches offense.
Ramon
November 26th, 2010
5:35 pm
Jamal for Hinrich would be a deal that I would be interested in.
ag
November 26th, 2010
5:42 pm
why do people still think our problem is center. If I had a dollar for we will not win a title without a center. The last impact center to win a title is Shaq with Miami, before that was David Robinson. I can go down the list of impact centers who never won a title. I would prefer a point, but the Hawks problem is who is career lows in 3pt%, spg,bpg,rpg ppg and less minutes per game except rookie season? If it walks like a duck, and quaks like a duck, then…..
jo
November 26th, 2010
5:59 pm
and yet, all we need is an impact center to get to the next level. the hawks can beat anyone but orlando (when they play right). however, no center, no elite status and this is NOT based only upon a center, its about a good team corp that need some inside help.
northcyde
November 26th, 2010
6:06 pm
@ ag
- Shaq has 4 titles, and has played in 6 NBA Finals
- Dwight Howard has played in an NBA Finals
- Ben Wallace was the best defensive center in the league when he played when Detroit won their title
- While people don’t call Tim Duncan a center, he’s 7 ft . . 260 lbs ( which is a center basically ) . . he has 4 NBA Titles
- Pau Gasol is listed as a PF, but he plays a lot of center.
*********
So don’t get it twisted man. We either need for Horford to become a complete bad azz who can either dominate the center position offensively, or start defending the position better defensively, or become the best rebounding big man in the league.
Or we need to bring in a center who can at least defend and rebound, so that Horford and/or Smith can do their thing at PF.
1 minute to go in the Auburn vs Alabama game. What a great game this has been. If Bama pulls this out . . lol.
truly1
November 26th, 2010
6:21 pm
Thanks MC Please check because I wonder if Rick sund and Ld are on the same page with teague. We will need him Unless we are keeping Jamal crawford which with the money situation I dont see how.
ag
November 26th, 2010
6:28 pm
Okay Dirk is 7′0″ but is not a center. How can you say Gasol is a impact center? The last impact center to win a championship was Shaq (while he was with the Lakers. He is the only center to win a MVP in the finals and since 1980 only Shaq (3) Olajuwon (2) and Kareem (1) have won a finals MVP. Again, Marvin is our problem!
truly1
November 26th, 2010
6:31 pm
MC, Dont let LD get away with saying it is a matchup problem because bibby, Jordan and Jamal dont match up well with many people as well. Washington played with 3 guards Teague is the only one that can stay with John wall. Jamal Crawford I think needs to let Teague bring the ball up because he is better with the ball in his hand and teague sitting on the perimeter taking a pass from jamal is backwards. It plays to each persons strength if teague brings it up or teague doesnt need to be out there. Thats what point guards Do
Halsey
November 26th, 2010
6:40 pm
You have no cluse about basketball if you don’t think Gasol is an impact front line player.
Whether it’s a center or forward, NBA teams don’t win championships without a high quality front line with at least one player of exceptional length:
Current Lakers:Lakers: Gasol, Odom, Bynum
Celtics from a couple of years ago: Garnett
Heat from a few years ago: Shaq
Pistons from a few years ago: Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur
Spurs: Duncan
The Hawks are never going to win anything trotting out two 6′8 forwards against top NBA teams. Just watch the way guys like Garnett, Shaq, Brooke Lopez, Dwight Howard, etc exploit them.
ag
November 26th, 2010
6:44 pm
Okay more on our problem.. top 5 in scoring, rebs (only Howard is in top 5 both categories), top among centers in assists, fg%, second in ft%, and double doubles. He is 20th in block shots .94 but the leader is Darko at 2.94. He is 11th is steals.
Grandad
November 26th, 2010
6:44 pm
ag
You can call Duncan, Garnett, and Gasol;
power forwards, [4's], centers, Bigs, Tall Guys,
pumpkins, carp, hosers, shorstops, or Templar Knights.
It don’t matter;
’cause they’re the same thing…..”impact centers”…..
—OR—> “impact Bigs”!
Grandad
November 26th, 2010
6:46 pm
* —ADD—> Rasheed Wallace!
ag
November 26th, 2010
6:52 pm
Hortford is 6′10″ Josh is 6′9″. They are a little undersized I will admit, but size does not matter (in basketball!) It is how they produce. These guys are not our archilles heal! Again, outside of a old Garnett, the front line for Boston is???? Hey sit Pierce, Rondo and Allen and replace them with Bibby, Joe and Marvin and see how far Boston would go. Hey do the trades with ANY team and tell me which would be better ( Those three with Odom and Gasol or our three with Howard). It is our first three especially Bibby and Marvin!!!
Halsey
November 26th, 2010
6:55 pm
“Size doesn’t matter in Basketball”
bwaaaahahahahaha! Then why is the NBA a league of tall guys? Why don’t teams have more 5′9 guys?
Size matters, bro. The taller a guy is the better chance he has at getting a rebound, shooting over another player, blocking a shot, etc.
ag
November 26th, 2010
6:55 pm
There is ONLY one center in this league that gives Hortford problems. (Okay I id notice Lopez went off, but that was a first!) Howard dominates everyone….Okay for the sake of this arguement, lets say I see it your way, this is not playstation and we cannot make a center! Look at the 7′0″ in the league, most cannot help us. Name five who could (that actually play center). Noah, Howard
ag
November 26th, 2010
7:03 pm
Marvin is 33 in scoring (yes I guess Woody was holding him back) 24th in rebounding, 14 fg%, 18th ft% worse than 40th 3pt% (Josh better than him so stop scolding him for taking that shot) as well as steals.. and etc for all other stats. What if we had a quality SF. Imagine how much better Hortford and Smith would be.
Art Vandelay
November 26th, 2010
7:03 pm
The Hawks are frauds who lack character and heart. Beyond Horford, who plays hard and smart every night, and Smith, who plays hard and smart about 85% of the time, there’s not a single player on this team that I’d trust to give his all when it really matters. I don’t care if the Anti-Spirit Group hires Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and the ghost of John Wooden to coach the team — they still won’t play defense, they still won’t back each other up, and they still won’t provide any leadership.
We’re paying Joe Johnson $20 million a year to be a jump shooter who suddenly can’t shoot jumpers and a slasher who can’t get to the basket; he doesn’t have any passion, and never really seems particularly interested in what’s going on when he doesn’t have the ball in his hands.
Teague is looking like a career backup with a questionable attitude; his jump shot doesn’t seem any better than it was last year, and being the quickest guy on the court means nothing if you don’t know your assignments.
Marvin Williams is a victim of what would seem to be a combination of a poor work ethic and questionable coaching through the first several years of his career; he’s not a lost cause, but the light switch ain’t coming on without a change of scenery. Unfortunately, his contract makes him pretty untradeable.
Jamal Crawford was my favorite player on the team last year, mainly because he was just so much fun to watch when he’d create off the dribble. With Drew’s motion offense, Crawford is less effective because he’s not able to use his freakish one-on-one skills; add his contract situation to the mix, and he’s become somewhat toxic to this roster. He’s our best trading chip right now, and it’s probably time to pull the trigger so we don’t lose him for nothing after the season.
Bibby…well, what is there really to say? He’s past his prime, and we knew that last year. He’s still capable of hitting big shots, but he gives up so much on defense that he’s becoming more of a liability with every cheeseburger he eats. I don’t think I’ve seen him move laterally since 2005.
The rest of the guys not named Horford or Smith are either too insignificant to discuss here (like Collins or Powell) or are still works in progress (like Jordan Crawford, who seems to have outstanding offensive potential, but the jury is definitely out on his defensive prowess).
I don’t think the roster needs to be blown up, but some serious changes are the only thing that will turn it around. It starts with a pass-first PG who takes care of himself and at least tries to play defense (meaning bye-bye Bibby), and it ends with a C who thinks of nothing but rebounding, defense and starting fast breaks with smart outlet passes. I’d trade our entire roster minus Horford and Smith if we could get Steve Nash in here for the last 2-3 years of his career and get Joakim Noah to patrol the paint and open up the floor for the rest of the team.
Hey, a guy can dream, right? It’s the holidays!
ag
November 26th, 2010
7:08 pm
Since size matters, let’s trot out our only seven footer Jason Collins. If I think about it I never played in the NBA but if they let me play one game and I managed to score two baskets, and pull away three rebounds and block 1 shot and one steal and one assist, then retire, then I would have BETTER career numbers than him!
ag
November 26th, 2010
7:10 pm
Okay, only type of center to bring in here is a high energy center like Noah. The kid on Washington is getting better also.
northcyde
November 26th, 2010
7:16 pm
ag . . you’re looking real silly man. Horford and Smith are very good basketball players. But in this league, you need someone who can bang on the inside.
We’re not saying that Horford or Smith are the main problem. It’s just that we need a banger on the inside, not another finesse player.
You can add any number of big men who also play inside, and it would not only help the Hawks, it may make Horford and Smith even better.
Shaq would’ve helped this team tremendously, with his size, ability to rebound, and ability to finish around the rim.
Pau Gasol averaged 19.6 ppg and 11.1 rebs in the NBA Finals, while also averaging more than 2 blks and shooting over 50% FG. Meanwhile, the center Bynum averaged 8 pts and 6 rebs . . but he did take up space in the middle.
During crunch time though, Gasol ALWAYS played center for the Lakers. And the Lakers winning percentage with Gasol on the team is above 75%.
Size matters ( as drmaryb would say ).
ag
November 26th, 2010
7:22 pm
Although he is a bit off his rocker, when the Heat were having their yard sale, it would have been nice to pick of Beasley.
northcyde
November 26th, 2010
7:22 pm
And we’re talking about dudes with size who can play . . . not scrub big men, which are plentiful in this league.
northcyde
November 26th, 2010
7:26 pm
Those were Bynum’s and Gasol’s playoff averages . . . not NBA Finals averages.
ag
November 26th, 2010
7:28 pm
Again, I said no more than 5 guys could help…and I mean real 7′0″ The obvious is Dirk, who would help anyone, but looking around 3/4 of the league, they are trotting out pure garbage at C. Okay give me another quality scoring or high energy big 6′10″ + to REPLACE MARVIN!!! I don’t want just a Etan Thomas just to say we have another big out there.
ag
November 26th, 2010
7:28 pm
Again, Beasly is 6′10″ and would really helped us.
ag
November 26th, 2010
7:32 pm
Shaq would have been a bad fit. He is injured a lot and he would have slowed us up. Plus he is a temporary solution. I would rather gamble on a guy like Oden or Thabeet in the off season. (Okay, I am at work passing time. Never post this much!)
Michael Cunningham
November 26th, 2010
7:47 pm
@O’Brien: “Thanks for the blog MC. I’m sure you picked up another 55″ flat screen this morning.”
my 50″ is still going strong.
Michael Cunningham
November 26th, 2010
7:52 pm
@truly1: “MC, Dont let LD get away with saying it is a matchup problem because bibby, Jordan and Jamal dont match up well with many people as well.”
well, he can say what he wants. and then i can point out what you say and let him explain. that’s what happened last time i asked why he likes the Jamal-Bibby-Joe alignment. he said he likes having two shotmakers out there and he thinks he can get enough D because Joe is a good defender at the 3 and Jamal can be a good rebounder. when it doesn’t work, everyone can see it, i write it, and so it is what it is.
terrell
November 26th, 2010
7:55 pm
Oden? That’s one helluva gamble.
Atlgent
November 26th, 2010
8:07 pm
It has been pleasurable to read the back and forth between northcyde and ag. I actually happen to agree with you both! I often read the blogs and become totally disgusted and often bewildered by some of the comments made. The trade proposals made from thin air without regard for the other teams desire to win as well. WOW is often all I can say after reading!
Actually, Horford is an undersized center and it would be just a blessing to obtain a 7 footer around these parts. And there are plenty around here, I believe I saw one earlier in McDonalds while I was eating lunch! But the true question is and dilemma is “The Hawks need a 7 footer that can play “basketball” and the last time I looked, there were only @ 10 in the NBA and they were established stars on other teams.
So, since the other teams are not willing to just “hand” a 7 footer to the Hawks, how about Horford just man up and BEAST himself into a center. As a 6′10 and undersized center, e is doing a magnificent job. He is top 7 in ALL measurable stats amongst centers, regardless of height. He physically has trouble with only 1, maybe 2 centers in the NBA. WOW, to me, that is just outstanding.
Could the Hawks use a 7 footer? Yes, they sure could. And if they were to , say, mysteriously obtain a “decent***” 7 footer, how would that affect Horford? Would his stats improve? Would the team be significantly better? I say “no” to better team ( coaching?) and “slightly” to better stats. By the way, if a “decent***” center is brought in, a knowledgeable coach can still defensively put a “good” center on Horford, correct?
Hey, that leads me to COACHING. I believe that if you coach J Smoove and Horford up, they would be in the top 3 as a tandem frontcourt, regardless of size. At this time, I can only think of Bynum and Gasol as significantly better. Even though I think Odom and Gasol is better as a tandem than those two. Plays need to be designed specifically for J Smoove and Horford to dominate the plundering centers of other teams with their quickness, relative to the center and power forward position. Is that being done? I don’t see it ,
I’ll save the Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby vent for another day. I’d start by expeditiously removing those 2 from the squad for a couple of those Big Macs I had at Mickey D’s earlier!
ag
November 26th, 2010
8:22 pm
I watch Smove and he has improved his game every year. He actually has a great game with his back to the basket, but he just does not do it enough. I watched the other day when the Hawks posted him about three straight times over Posey and he scored. Then they decided to involve the other players. Again, like Atlgent said, there is only a handful of impact 7′0″ and nobody is going to give them up. Go get a quality SF and watch how our undersized players will do.
Halsey
November 26th, 2010
8:44 pm
You’re completely right that quality ‘7 footers’ don’t grow on trees. The point, however, is that is what’s separating the Hawks from elite teams. Not bad coaching or Marvin Williams. The Hawks can change coaches until they’re blue in the face, but no team wins anything in the NBA without someone like Garnett, Gasol, Duncan, etc. Horford and Smith are good players, but they are simply at a height/length advantage vs those sorts of guys.
truly1
November 26th, 2010
9:27 pm
Thanks MC you are a good host
Najeh Davenpoop
November 26th, 2010
9:42 pm
“You can call Duncan, Garnett, and Gasol;
power forwards, [4's], centers, Bigs, Tall Guys,
pumpkins, carp, hosers, shorstops, or Templar Knights.
It don’t matter;
’cause they’re the same thing…..”impact centers”…..
—OR—> “impact Bigs”!”
This is true. Terms like “center” don’t have as much meaning in the modern NBA. In today’s NBA, there are three kinds of players — bigs, guards, and wings. You can call them SGs, SFs, PFs, whatever you want, but those are the three basic kinds of players. Is there a huge difference between Gerald Wallace (SF) and Josh Smith (PF)? Or Tim Duncan (PF) and Al Horford (C)? Or Derrick Rose (PG) and Dwyane Wade (SG)? Not really.
You don’t have to have 25-10 big guys to win, but you DO need to have toughness and defense at that position. Look at what Kendrick Perkins does for Boston — his numbers are pretty pedestrian, but his defensive presence, toughness, and presence on the glass has been invaluable to Boston. Horford isn’t that kind of dominating defensive presence. He plays fundamentally solid D more often than not, and Smoove is a fantastic help defender, but neither one of them is going to prevent people from coming down the lane consistently.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 26th, 2010
9:45 pm
And before someone twists around the above post and calls me an idiot for comparing Tim Duncan to Al Horford, I’m talking about their roles on the floor, not how good they are at it.
cp
November 26th, 2010
10:24 pm
Teague is starting to look like the pg version of Duck Williams. Talented guys who just don’t have it in them.. Teague just wasn’t doing much with the minutes he was getting. All he did was pass the ball and stand in a corner. It was a few games where you could hear LD screaming at him to get the ball from Jamal and he wouldn’t. I was thinking the other day they just might need to send him to the D League and let him work out his problems…. Duck on the other hand just needs to be traded. He doesn’t rebound well for a guy his size, cant finish in traffic, weak handles, cant take advantage of his size when he is posted on smaller players, cant seem to hit open jumpers, and is just clumsy. He needs a change of scenery because its clear that a new coach and offense is not working.
MannyT
November 26th, 2010
11:00 pm
@MC
The next time you find yourself with the worldly Quebecois, try this.
http://translate.google.com
…and I’d bet that most of them have decent English skills if they are coving the NHL.
YoDaddy
November 26th, 2010
11:12 pm
Marvin is just terrible period. 2nd round pick. lol @ NBA2k11 rated him a 65. LMAO but we wholeheartedly agree. A bench player masquerading as a starter. And he has to start because he’s getting paid 8 mill per year.
Teague is looking scared out there. He needs to just blackout every once in a while. It doesn’t seem like he has the dog in him. However in the NBA you usually have until the end of your rookie contract to make your worth. Teague has this year and next year to prove.
Jordan Crawford does though…he’s not afraid of anything. He will shoot the ball if he’s open and he will jack up shots if he’s not…that’s the aggressiveness I need. ON defense he’s no slouch and will chase his man around those picks and try.
MannyT
November 26th, 2010
11:12 pm
Kudos @Najeh
What many folks skim over these days is that your true position is a function of where you defend. The more legitimate your flexibility in defending, the more positions you actually play.
I can have anyone initiate offense if they can handle the ball and make good decisions when passing (Scottie Pippen, Paul Pressey.) My shooters don’t have to be wings (Mehmet Okur, Dirk Nowitzki).
The more you mess with the system, the trickier it is for people to deal with it. If your coach can wrap his mind around it, you get innovation. If he cannot, you get a mess. (Example, Boris Diaw here vs not here–the wing vs post role.)
Melvin
November 26th, 2010
11:28 pm
Watching the 4th qtr of the Lakers/Jazz game. My goodness, Deron Williams is a beast…
doc
November 26th, 2010
11:42 pm
melvin, this guy went 20 and 8 against the lakers. the day after our season ended i suggested we trade josh for him as he is a true center with bulk at 280. he has been steady as she goes this season for utah:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3832
doc
November 26th, 2010
11:49 pm
DRIBBLE TIDE!!!!!!
Melvin
November 26th, 2010
11:51 pm
doc,
I remeber you suggested trading Josh for Jefferson but if Josh played with DWill, he would avg 20/8 as well. You should have seen how many layups/shots from point blank range Al got b/c DWill set him up off the drive and dish. Watching Deron made me wanted to got searching for BK.
Heck, as bad as BK was, I would take him over Sund right now. Sund has done nothing creative to move this team along. He just keep the core intact that BK assemble. I truly believe BK would have made some roster changes by now and maybe LD would have been in his 3rd year coaching instead of year 1…
Awesome One
November 27th, 2010
2:00 am
For all you knuckleheads that say we need a center. Wake up! We don’t. Horford is our center,and he’s doing a good job at it as well. In fact, I’ll put our front court of Josh and Horford up against any other front court in the league. Both are great defenders. Some of you need to wake up and realize this is not our issue. Gasol isn’t a “banger” as you all put it. This league has gotten so cupcake over the past 15 years or so, to where you don’t need a traditional center. Marvin Williams is holding this team back. Getting production out of our SF position would make us alot more competitive. With that said heres what our line-up should be:
pg Bibby
sg Jamal Crawford
sf Johnson
pf Smoove
C Horford
Make a trade/ deal to get Flip Murray back here to replace Jamal’s role as 6th man.
mykhalc
November 27th, 2010
2:41 am
Marvin’s ass to the bench until the Hawks can get him on a plane outta here!!! put your damn stamp on this team LD with a lineup change!!!
Shazam
November 27th, 2010
3:06 am
Teague has shown flashes, but almost no consistency. He plays nervous basketball – I’ve only seen him look confident on the court a few times, and I think it directly impacts his defensive presence as well as his shooting.
His speed is an asset, and he’s shown some impressive ability as a passer. With time I could still see him developing into a solid player, but he seems to be progressing pretty slowly.
At this point, I wouldn’t be that upset if we involved him in a smart trade that would add some balance to our roster – maybe a more experienced PG or a true big.
Shazam
November 27th, 2010
3:10 am
And I agree that Horford is a great player and a very capable center, but I think he could be better as a PF.
His slightly goofy jumpshot has become a thing of beauty, and he knows how to crash the boards well from any position. If Josh Smith can keep making jumpers (could it happen?) it seems like he has the athleticism and defensive skills to play SF opposite Horford at PF.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2010
3:50 am
Sekou wrote a very prophetic blog a couple of years ago about the lack of a physical presence on the Hawks. At the time, we were all more concerned with whether or not the Hawks would even make the playoffs, but his point about an “Oomgowaye” means more now than it did then, with the Hawks trying to transition from talented pretender to legit threat to win the East.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 27th, 2010
5:26 am
“Houston gets:
Joe, Jeff Teague, & Marv
Hawks get:
Battier, Aaron Brooks, Kevin Martin, & Jared Jeffries (exp cont)”
This is actually a pretty decent trade. Aaron Brooks is a baller, and Kevin Martin can give you 80% of what Joe gives (and actually does some things better, like getting to the free throw line). I don’t know if Battier is as good as he was at his peak, but he will still do the dirty work that Marvin is apparently incapable of doing. And of course, financially this gives the Hawks a lot more flexibility down the road. The one major red flag is that Martin, at his weight, has shown that he cannot stay healthy for extended periods of time.
A lineup of Brooks/Martin/Battier/Smoove/Horford with Bibby/Crawford/Evans/Jeffries coming off the bench still wouldn’t have the physical presence that the Hawks so desperately need, but it would be a much deeper team than the Hawks’ current squad, and depending on how things shook out it would provide the Hawks more options as far as future trades to acquire that physical presence.
As is often the case, though, I have to add that I have a hard time seeing any team trading for Marvin’s contract. Even Joe with his max deal is at least an All-Star who will give you solid production and solidify your SG spot, so as difficult as it is to imagine a scenario where a team would trade for him, it is not impossible since they would at least be getting a good player. Marvin on the other hand is getting paid like the 4th or 5th best guy on a good team despite playing like the 10th best guy on a good team. A team would really have to be taken by his “potential” (which he hasn’t shown consistently in five NBA seasons) in order to swallow the rest of his deal.
doc
November 27th, 2010
5:50 am
yeah melvin one mre knock on the askg. essentially gave bk no support on firing woody and hiring ld when he wanted him essentially undermining him then a year and a half later hiring ld a a darkhorse last minute interviewee. it is the culture. how would you like to work in an environment like that?
Paddy
November 27th, 2010
8:06 am
Teague would have to split minutes in the D League also. Just not a very productive player on a very age. team.
dap01
November 27th, 2010
8:45 am
The only person being held accountable for defense is Teague. He gets pulled for blown assignments. Bibby blows at defense EVERY play. Has Jamal EVER played defense.
Drew’s accountability is CRAP. He is turning into Woody. Play just to keep things average with no eye toward the future.
This team is peaking and it is going to get terrible before we have to again blow up the team and start over.
Jamie
November 27th, 2010
9:54 am
I’m Canadian. I’m just wondering what makes the Habs beat guy a French Canadian hack? That seems a little uncalled for.
truly1
November 27th, 2010
10:25 am
dap01 I am with you on everything you said except for the blow up again and start over. I hope that is not the case. They used to call Teague ROOK you dont think that messed with his confidence. They dont call Jordan ROOK. With a veteran team you cant do that to any player and expect him in limited minutes to be good not even Chris paul would look good because he couldnt shoot as a rookie neither.
Melvin
November 27th, 2010
10:28 am
doc,
I would pull a BK (or Dolly Parton) and tell them to take this job and shove it…
Melvin
November 27th, 2010
10:35 am
Their are rumors that Iguodala will be traded. Now I would really like to have him in the ATL (he could have been if it wasnt for BK). Would the ASG be willing to pay his salary (3yrs over 40 mil left after this season).
Grandad, whip up a trade scenario for Iggy….
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/11/26/andre-iguodala-doesnt-expect-to-be-a-76er-for-long/
Sautee
November 27th, 2010
10:48 am
Jamie,
The term “hack” is used fondly by many writers to describe their profession. Another oft used term, though older, is “ink stained wretch”. Among writers it’s a common term and generally understood as benign.
In other words, MC was not being derogatory, but just using the vernacular of his trade.
northcyde
November 27th, 2010
12:02 pm
An Iggy trade is easy.
Crawford + Evans for Iggy
Philly gets our 2 expiring contracts, while the Hawks would most certaintly be in the luxury tax ( if one exists in the new CBA ).
Acquiring Iggy moves Marvin to the bench.
Lineup:
PG: Bibby
G: Iggy
F: Johnson
PF: Smith
C: Horford
Bench
PG: Teague
G: Jordan
F: Marvin
PF: Powell
C: Zaza
That lineup takes 2 three point shooters away, but adds an elite perimeter defender to the squad in Iggy. It also gives you an added playmaker and slasher. The starting unit improves dramatically.
The bench is a different story. Someone would have to step up. Would Marvin play better off the bench? Could Teague and Jordan gel while playing together?
Of course, the reason why that deal won’t get done, is because of the length of Iggy’s contract. Only teams looking to win a title would make a move like that.
terrell
November 27th, 2010
12:21 pm
Philly’s in rebuilding mode(again). Wonder if they’ll go for this?
Marvin/Jamal/Teague/Evans and a 1st rdr for Iggy/Louis Williams/Nocioni/Speights
They get a 1st rd pick, along with Jamal and Mo’s expiring contracts.
We get rid of Marvin and while gaining and allstar caliber sf and a promising young guard in the process.
New lineup:
Williams/JJ/Iggy/Josh/Al
Bibby/JC2/Nocioni/Speights/Collins
Zaza/Etan
terrell
November 27th, 2010
12:22 pm
And oh I forgot about Powell. lol!
Samuel
November 27th, 2010
12:32 pm
It’s pretty obvious to me why Teague isn’t playing. MC, you could have saved that time and gas money.
Samuel
November 27th, 2010
12:39 pm
Teague tu es terrible en francais!
cp
November 27th, 2010
12:58 pm
Yea LD cant talk about accountability and still play Marvin or allow guys to be out there and they aren’t boxing out or playing hard. Jamal has missed plenty of defensive assignments himself. LD is looking like Woody in many ways, letting the vets do as they please but only holding the young guys accountable for their mistakes. MC had a blog after Woody was not retained and guys were saying they hope the next coach doesn’t play favorites and holds everyone accountable just not the youngsters but it seems like its the same thing. Maybe things change but I don’t know at this point.
ignition
November 27th, 2010
1:34 pm
I guess I’m the only one watching the game…
MannyT
November 27th, 2010
1:38 pm
no you’re not, but there is a new blog up.
Big Ray
November 27th, 2010
4:09 pm
There is no mystery. Tried to take up for Teague, and I still believe he’s a “needs time” guy. But one fact still rings true right now:
Teague – no inner dog.
JC2 – mucho inner dog.
Is Atlanta doing anymore than avoiding the 500 club? | Atlanta Hawks: Fan Nest
November 27th, 2010
5:14 pm
[...] going on with guards Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford? Of late, Teague’s playing time has become a subject of discussion, to the point of where some questions have been put to Larry Drew. Personally, I think he’s [...]
JeJe
November 27th, 2010
6:59 pm
FIRE RICK SUND
HOW DOES TEAGUE NOT BEAT BIB FOR STARTER THIS YEAR? DUDE MUST BE AWFUL IN PRACTICE LOL
Wally Walker
November 28th, 2010
12:27 am
Northcyde & Terrell, the only real trades are Jamal & Marvin for the Wizards’ PG Hinrich & SF Thronton. Why: Hinrich has 3 years left at 11 mil per year and Thronton’s contact is under 3 mil. The Wizard would save 6 mil per when Jamal’s deal ends as well as Marvin is at close to 8 mil per. There’s no need for Hinrich with the rookie PG. Major issue solved for the Hawks. A solid starting PG is going to cost at least 10 mil per year. Next, send Bibby and next year’s # 1 pick to Portland for C Pryzbilla. Portland needs help at the PG and they don’t want Pryzbilla because of his injury issues; althought, he’s healthy now! Moreover, throw Mo in if necessary or trade him for 2nd round pick to keep the team out of the luxury tax threshold.
The Hawks must make some trades in order to strenghten the team. Currently, they are not positioned to get past the 2nd round of the playoff, again! Clearly, the team must get better at the PG, C, & SF. These moves bring in a Solid PG, serviceable Center, and simply use JJ & Josh at SF along with Thronton. JC2 becomes your scoring punch off the bench, but more importantly, the team gets bigger, stronger, move versatile!
Go Hawks!