Atlanta Hawks: Mavericks 98, Hawks 93
J.J.'s last play was only the beginning of Atlanta's problems. (AP Photo)
– The Hawks lost seven home games last season. They’ve lost four times at Philips Arena in the first four weeks this season. Can’t knock their 5-1 road record but also can’t ignore their inability to beat good teams at home.
– Losing by close margins isn’t much of a mitigating factor, either, since the best teams tend to win those kind of games more often than they lose them. The Hawks were healthy and rested this time, too, while Dallas came in after taking a tough L against Chicago last night.
– That didn’t keep the Mavs from looking sharper in the first half. L.D. said the Hawks haven’t played with the same energy at Philips Arena. It’s also true they haven’t played the same level of competition. “We have put ourselves in positions that we shouldn’t put ourselves in,” L.D. said. “A lot of that is a failure to follow details.”
– “I thought we had a good plan coming in,” Al said. “It’s a tough loss. We still have work to do as a team.”
– Down three with 13.2 seconds left, the Hawks ended up getting an awkward 3-point try from J.J., who looked to be trying to draw a foul on Tyson Chandler. Clearly that’s not what the Hawks were looking for.
– “Get a handoff, turn the corner and get fouled,” Drew said. “We drew up a play to go to the basket and get fouled. We wanted to put the onus on the official. If we make the free throws when we foul them and there’s plenty of time left. We did not get a clean exchange between [Joe] and Al on the handoff.”
– J.J. played with a glove on his left hand. He got it banged during the preseason and he favors it at times. I’ve never seen him miss so many open shots as the last month–the Mavs appeared to be letting him shoot long jumpers at times–but you never get far asking him if injuries are affecting his play.
– “I’m good, man,” he said yesterday. “Just nursing these little ‘nick knacks’ I’ve got. Other than that, everything else is cool. I will be all right.”
– The Hawks reacted as if they had never seen a zone defense before. They passed it aimlessly around the perimeter until someone decided to jack up a 3-pointer. The Hawks missed 18 of 25.
– L.D. said the Hawks expected to see zone and the plan was to reverse the ball and attack the creases. “We settled,” L.D. said. “That’s way, way too many 3-point shots for us. They zoned us and we lost discipline. We settled for perimeter shots. Our movement was slow. We looked unsure. We started holding the ball. We fell prey to exactly what they wanted us to do.”
– Al had 20 rebounds. His teammates had 17. The Hawks had a 20-18 edge on the boards in the second half but Dallas led 26-17 in the first with eight offensive rebounds. There were a few possessions where the Hawks watched the ball fall to the floor before Dallas collected it. “We did a poor job of boxing out,” Drew said.
– Atlanta’s bench was awful in the first half. The reserves played a combined 37 minutes and combined for two points and two rebounds. The goal is for those guys to provide energy but instead they let the game get away in the second quarter.
– The Mavs are the latest Hawks opponent to show the difference in depth between the teams Atlanta has beaten and the teams they can’t beat. It’s too difficult for the Hawks to beat good teams when the bench drags them down.
– This was the fourth straight game Zaza was just kind of out there. It’s perplexing because he had been productive and energetic.
– Jamal still isn’t shooting well and his turnovers are up. He had seven assists so it’s not like he’s stagnant but the instant offense has been up-and-down. He had a key steal, craftily poking the ball away from Chandler on a trap with Smoove and dunking at the other end.
– Another strong line from Josh: 21 points, six assists, five steals, 10 of 19 shooting. Just five boards, and it looked like he grew frustrated because he and Al were the only guys working to get them.
– The Hawks couldn’t take advantage of an off night for Nowitzki, who was 8 of 22. He was just 2 of 9 in the fourth period and missed at least four wide open looks that he almost always makes in clutch situations.
– With Bibby in foul trouble and L.D. apparently having seen enough of Teague in the first half, in came Jordan Crawford to play with a small lineup. He gave the Hawks spark by making his first four shots, including a fadeaway over Nowitzki.
– “It felt good to get out there and play,” Jordan Crawford said. “I’m just excited that I got the opportunity and I just tried to take advantage of it.”
– “Jordan gave us some really good minutes,” L.D. said.
– “Atlanta has so much firepower, and they they insert a kid who probably hasn’t played in three or four games and he lights it up,” Jason Terry said.
– Later, Jordan showed his inexperience. He messed up a coverage that led to a Barea 3, lost Terry on a pick-and-roll layup and threw the ball away when trying to whip a pass to Mo under the basket. Back came Bibby, who continues to be the only guard making 3-pointers consistently.
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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185 comments Add your comment
rusty
November 21st, 2010
7:45 pm
i dont know what the hell the blog monster is doing
Section 303
November 21st, 2010
7:50 pm
So, about tomorrow night. There is some good news and bad news.
Good news: Rajon Rondo is probably out with a hamstring injury.
Bad news: Nate Robinson, noted Hawk killer, will start in his place.
Hawks will get their heads kicked in tomorrow. I’m calling 30 pts for Nate Robinson. Hawks can’t guard him.
Sautee
November 21st, 2010
7:58 pm
Samuel,
You said: “Teague gives the ball up because he’s not confident in his shot, nor are his team mates. Basically, his upside is a healthy Speedy. Nothing more.”
LOL. A healthy Speedy might have saved Woody’s job, but now you think that’s some kind of insult to compare Teague to him.
Samuel, get real. If Teague can produce like a healthy Speedy when he was the 7th PG drafted, then we’re getting about what one would expect.
Nothing more.
truly1
November 21st, 2010
8:03 pm
If you read this blog you would think Jeff teague and Marvin williams lost this game which is not the case. They didnt get enough opportunities to do that. LD needs to force them to take more shots and take shots away from other guys mainly Joe and Jamal until they heat up.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 21st, 2010
8:15 pm
“The team reflects its host city, Atlanta,, and the nonstop gangsta “blogging” bears this out. No cohesion. No intellect. Flashy emotional blasts leading nowhere.. Give me what I want or I’ll throw a tantrum. Add on 100% inflation and you’ll have Hotlanta soon enough. . ”
Did you smoke some crack before you typed that? What the hell is any of that supposed to mean?
Ray
November 21st, 2010
8:31 pm
@ truly1 that’s the thing about Marvin he’s so invisible he doesn’t really affect the outcome of the game.
I can agree with he needed to take more shots. That game was lost because of JC1 taking too many shots plus LD for not subbing him out, and letting him play so long.
JC was ice cold on that floor even though he hit two shots he was cold.
JeJe.
November 21st, 2010
8:45 pm
The thing is, Marvin is invisible during the game. And he likes being that way. He is that awkward guy at the social who does not want to be noticed. He is just stealing paychecks from this team
Grandad
November 21st, 2010
10:13 pm
nc
When did Sund become “my boy”?
That’s insulting.
I won’t hold it against you.
cdog
November 21st, 2010
11:57 pm
the hawks won’t win until they get a quality general manager and head coach.rick sund will continue to be a loser as long as the hawks keeps him employed
Melvin
November 22nd, 2010
12:34 am
“Ryan McNeill: Colangelo also said that the team would look into a trade or buyout if Peja Stojakovic doesn’t like his role here in Toronto. Twitter”
If the Raps buyout Peja, would you guys like to see him in a Hawks uniform? Could be a cheap signing to play backup SF or bring Marvin off the bench and in defensive situations…
Najeh Davenpoop
November 22nd, 2010
1:28 am
“If the Raps buyout Peja, would you guys like to see him in a Hawks uniform? ”
Peja is a one trick pony who is an even bigger defensive liability than anyone currently on the Hawks’ bench. If the Hawks are going to go after someone, it needs to be someone who will give them toughness and shore up the D, and Peja does neither.
vava74
November 22nd, 2010
3:38 am
Marvin was AWOL during most of the game but he got 2 buckets, 1 assist and several good defensive possessions against Nowitski during the 4th quarter.
He worked well to close his showing.
My take is that even when he is not operating on offense, he brings length and defensive cohesion and should PLAY ALWAYS to close the 4th quarter.
EmirS.
November 22nd, 2010
4:19 am
What are you kidding me?
I can’t believe….13 games into the season and you guys are wanting JJ traded. Seriously, get back to the drawing board. You can TELL he is not healthy, not himself, completely off for the time being. Yet I think he’s averaging just over 18 ppg. Stop worrying about the dude.
And what really frustrates me, is that almost everyone on this blog is jumping on JJ, yet the minute that Smoove or Al fall into a slump, you guys will be yelling for them to get traded or kicked out of Atlanta. Or claiming you we’re right in the offseason about them, while your praising them today.
So to quote northcyde:
“If you can ball . . you can ball.”
We KNOW JJ, Jamal, Smoove, and Al can ball. So with that being said, alot of you need to get the hell off of JJ’s (Enter your comments here)….
diamondd
November 22nd, 2010
6:58 am
its soo typical: since we signed joe for a max contract his game has declined at a frightening pace.. if he does not change his attitude FAST then the hawks have yet another sad future ahead… and the big problem is: no one wants joe hes too heavy (contract) and production is close to nothing…
O'Brien
November 22nd, 2010
7:25 am
vava,
If the Hawks need offense in the fourth, it will be hard to justify leaving Marvin in. But if they have a lead, I would like to see Marvin in there for defense.
But you realize in 20 something minutes of PT, we are complimenting Marvin for 2 buckets (including a wide open 3), 1 assist, and having a a few good defensive sequences.
The bottomline is we need more from him. LD had more confidence in Jamal, who struggled all night (33 mins, 2-9 FG, 5 turnovers) than he did in Marvin.
O'Brien
November 22nd, 2010
7:28 am
As for the game tonight, Hawks might catch a break because Rondo might still be out (he missed the Celtics loss to the Raptors yesterday with hamstring injury).
However, unless like last year, the Celtics have Nate Robinson, and we saw what he did to us as a member of the Knicks.
It will be interesting to see the defensiuve game plan tonight.
Fundamentals
November 22nd, 2010
8:30 am
Same story, different tday. Drew says the Hawks need more energy and focus on details. The Hawks just don’t get it or just don’t care? When will they listen and come w/ a consistent professional effort?
Jordan definitely proved he deserves a “heat check” every night. Give the kid a chance. Especially when Joe and Jamal are definitely having problems. Joe is obviously having physical issues. Jamal just seems distracted & out of sorts.
Marvin proved, well…he’s still Marvin. I’ve pushed so hard to get folks to give him a chance, but even my paitience is thin now.
Along with Marvin the bench was key. Outside of Jordan, who brought anything?
If we don’t start tuning in to LD’s postgame comments this team is done!
JeJe.
November 22nd, 2010
9:00 am
WHY IS THIS TEAM HAVING TROUBLE GOING THROUGH ADVERSITY?
WE WON THESE GAMES LAST YEAR THAT WE ARE LOSING KNOW
AND THAT WAS WITH MIKE WOODSON
ILL-Logical
November 22nd, 2010
9:16 am
Big game tonight because of both the budding rivalry and the Hawk’s losing steak. Jobs may be on the line.
dukester
November 22nd, 2010
9:59 am
Really no need to say this. But I guess I will again. Whoever resigned Bibby, Marvin and Zaza to the contracts they have should be fired. (Bibby) cool as long as he is hitting the open three and bringing veteran leadership but that wasnt worth 5 million. OK so Woodson was one of them he is gone already who does that leave us with?
O'Brien
November 22nd, 2010
10:00 am
From MC’s Hawks use Boston as an example article.
“But Sund, Atlanta’s general manager, thought it was premature to give up on Atlanta’s talented core when it hadn’t been through enough tests.” .
How many tests do we need to go through? I guess he’s giving them one more test with a different coach. And if that doesnt work, then he will make moves.
The problem is, if Rick waits until the end of the season to make a move, his options will be limited. Jamal and Mo will be gone, but we will probably be over the cap, with only Bibby as the expiring and tradeable contract. And with a new CBA, how will that affect the salalries?
Right now, our core should be Josh, Al and JJ. Everybody else is expendable for the right move. But I dont think Rick is looking for the right move. He is just watching to see how things work out..
O'Brien
November 22nd, 2010
10:07 am
And as for Marvin…There was some hope that he would be better playing for LD than he was playing for Woody. I know that its early, and he has been hurt. But so far, he looks like the same player, except this year he can’t make a 3 pointer.
2009 Marvin: 10 pts, 5 rebs, good defense in 30.5 mpg under Woody.
2010 Marvin: 9.4 pts, 5 rebs, good defense in 29 mpg under LD.
Is that what we get for $7.5 mil?
And to make it worse, we see improvements that Josh and Al are making every season, but what improvements have we seen from Marvin?
Melvin
November 22nd, 2010
10:20 am
OB,
You are on a mission this morning. Keep bringing the fire….
Ray
November 22nd, 2010
10:32 am
@ OB
What is the core I’m wondering that too because so far it seems to me the Core is just Al and Josh.
It was suppose to be Joe, Al, and Josh. As we all know Joe is M.I.A right now with his money.
I say we need to keep Bibby around he may not be as quick anymore like he was 6 years ago, but he provides leadership, and you need that to advance in the playoffs.
Ray
November 22nd, 2010
10:46 am
Just to add onto I want to see Teague run with the 1st unit sometimes I think that will boost his confidence I think.
Fundamentals
November 22nd, 2010
11:38 am
Ray, Have we really seen any improvement from Teague over last season? Same kid, just with more minutes. Jordan has the fire, Teague doesn’t seem to have it. Time will tell, but he’s getting his opportunity.
Fundamentals
November 22nd, 2010
11:40 am
Bibby has shown he’s willing to give what he can. He does seem better with 20-25 minutes a night. That’s where Teague has to step in. Teague is playing good D, but you can tell the offense stalls when Teague comes in. Is that a JC1 issue or a Teague issue?
Thus far Bibby is proving his worth. Marvin is the invisible man again. Definite AMEN to others showing what they worked on in the offseason. Marvin worked on books, not basketball.
J from the A
November 22nd, 2010
12:34 pm
The Hawks have (primarily just) one problem: their bench. The Hawks starting 5 are among the best starting 5 in the league. Three of the Hawks starters are potential All Stars. Marvin and Bibby are both solid role players.
But who is behind these starting 5?
(1) Jamal Crawford: When he is on, he is magnificent … offensively. His defense is atrocious. When he is off, he hurts the Hawks way more than he helps. So far this season, he has been off way more than he has been on.
(2) Jeff Teague: There is hope that he will improve through out the year, but as of right now, he is not that good. He lacks a jump shot. The offense stalls under his leadership (in comparison to Bibby at least). And he struggles fundamentally on defense. However, he has talent. If he can improve some of his fundamentals, he will be a good back up.
(4) Mo Evans: As a back-up defensively minded 2, he would be a solid option. But he is the Hawks’ back up 3, and he doesn’t match up well against larger 3s. His offensive skill set is good enough to keep the defense honest, but not any better.
(5) Jordan Crawford: In his limited playing time, he has shown flashes of promise, but c’mon, we all know he is not quite good enough to be rotational player. (Still I say get him some minutes, especially when JC1 is off.)
(6): Zaza Pachulia: He is full of hustle and heart … unfortunately not much else. If he improved his “hands” and quickness a bit, I think he could be a more consistent contributor. He would be a solid 2nd or 3rd big man off the bench, but the fact that he is the 1st big man option off the Hawks’ bench speaks volumes for the Hawks’ lack of depth.
(7) Josh Powell: He is playing better than I expected, but those expectations were very low.
(8) Jason Collins: Looking much improved over last year, but, again this is not saying much considering how bad he was last year.
(9) Etan Thomas: Well, the fans (including most of the bloggers here) asked for a big big man. All of you oohed-and-aahed over his “guns” when the Hawks signed him. Too bad he is worse than Jason Collins.
When Jamal is off, there is little to no offense coming off the bench. The defense-as-a-second-unit is also subpar.
The Hawks could have been a competitor this year if:
(1) They signed a quality back-up SF (there were a small handful of them that went cheap).
(2) Teague blossomed by season’s end
(3) The Hawks monitored JC1’s and the rest of the team’s performance. Trade JC1 for a solid big man or solid PG by trade deadline … which ever one was needed more.
Two of these options were in the ASG’s control. Teague’s improvement is not. However, if the Hawks would have signed a solid SF, the Hawks would have had a lot more viable options that could have improved the team, even if Teague did not improve much. (Signing a solid 3, in many ways, would have potentially made JC1, MO, or Teague expendable. The failure to sign a 3 put the Hawks in position such that if they made a trade to fill one hole, the Hawks probably would still have another hole.)
Samuel
November 22nd, 2010
12:47 pm
“LOL. A healthy Speedy might have saved Woody’s job, but now you think that’s some kind of insult to compare Teague to him.”
Samuel, get real. If Teague can produce like a healthy Speedy when he was the 7th PG drafted, then we’re getting about what one would expect.
Sautee,
You kinda lost me here. Just to clarify my statement. Speedy Sucked and Teague sucks. A guard that can’t shoot is useless on a basketball court. My thing is, why draft a 7th best anything. All the scouting reports I saw on Teague said he had bad mechanics(understatement) on his shot. A couple said he shot a palm/knuckle ball. Ding.Ding.Ding.Ding!!!. The reports also said he was turnover prone which he definitely is. Not good ingredients for a point guard.
As for Speedy saving Woody’s job. I don’t think anything could have done that. You guys would have been content with “Ronald McDonald”. Anybody but Woody. So now you got your wish and we’re basically where we were last year only a step below in my opinion. I expected that. Time will tell if LD can translate that “smooth” rap into victories over playoff caliber teams. So far, he’s not getting it done.
Woody>LD
Samuel
November 22nd, 2010
12:51 pm
OH yea,
Add the fact that Teague is timid and not confident. So what “does” he bring to the table? Quickness and jumping ability. You can find that on any playground in Atlanta
Ray
November 22nd, 2010
12:55 pm
@ Fundamentals
The situation with Teague is kind of sticky if you ask me. You asked me if we’ve seen any improvements on him since last season that’s the thing what do we really have to go on from last season.
To me and this is only my opinion I’m treating Teague like a 2nd year rookie. Because last year I never got to see much of him to make a judgement about him. I think Teague’s confidence is the problem because he shows signs of being a great ball player here and there.
As for Jordan Crawford he’s basically JC1 plus the defense which is what we needed so he’ll be one of the best SG’s we’ve ever drafted I believe.
Still I’m going to give Teague a lot more time in my eyes it takes 3 years to determine who’s a complete bust, and This is only Teague’s 2nd season. Look at Marvin it took some of us 6 years to realize we drafted only a role player with that ………….2005 draft with the 2nd pick(hard for me to say that even to this day).
On a side note looking back at that draft of 2005 there are only about 10-12 players that stood out, and now I’m mad even though we choose Marvin over CP3 we also had a chance to score Monta Ellis and Macin Gortat. Lol
terrell
November 22nd, 2010
2:07 pm
Ray, we didnt need Monte, we already had Joe. On the other hand, we didnt need Marvin because we alreadsy had Chills. lol!
Ray
November 22nd, 2010
2:56 pm
Exactly plus not only that Monta Ellis was actually a PG in the draft that year if you go back and look it up at least from where I got the info it said he was a PG.
Still though quite upset we could have also had Danny Granger who went 17th in that draft as well.
terrell
November 22nd, 2010
4:14 pm
Ray, only if Milwaukee would’ve fell for Marvin. lol!(And they almost did btw) At least we’d have Bogut.
Tancred
November 23rd, 2010
9:01 am
The Hawks are symbolic of this city. Basically, it stinks. Why, if you were on the Hawks, would you care? Nobody shows up to watch. Same with the Braves. Atlanta is going to be another Detroit; a black donut hole surrounded by a white outer ring of sprawling, McMansions, have of which are in busted developments. This city is really isn’t a city at all. If not for the gays in midtown, there would be nothing going on, except maybe some “smash n’ grabs” or murders. Wanna send your kid to Atlanta public schools? Why would you? Dysfunction everywhere. Build a friggin Ferris Wheel and a happy-go-lucky trolley. That is Atlanta’s solution. What a joke of a city. Hope Kasim brought back some great ideas from London. Hope he flew at least business class.