Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 102, Pacers 92

My 2nd 1st.

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Teague 2 of 3 from deep? Wow!

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Nice win. Hope they respond well to the time off. You never know…sometimes it has a negative effect. They need the rest, though.

Already looking forward to the Dallas game on Saturday.

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So, apparently Horford was “frustrated” by having to sit out yet another second quarter with just 2 fouls. That’s understandable, I would be frustrated too. I wonder though, if he was frustrated at himself for picking up the fouls, frustrated at L.D. for not letting him play with 2 fouls, or both?

At any rate, a lot of people seem to be getting tired of this 2 foul benching nonsense. At least the Hawks got the win. On a positive note, the offense looked pretty good tonight, and that was against a very aggressive defensive effort by the Pacers. Nice team win.

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MsDee,

In regards to benching Al when he picks up two fouls, I think the main issue that a lot of people are having is that they feel that Al would be fine playing with two fouls. He’s not a heavily foul prone player, and in the past he has shown that he can play through foul trouble. It’s understandable to want to sit your key players when they pick up early fouls to preserve them for later in the game, but in some instances it hurts the team more than helping them. A key example of that is the Orlando Magic game earlier this year. L.D. elected to bench Horford at a key turning point in the game when the Hawks actually had the edge, and when he saw the momentum shifting, he thought it would be more effective to save Horford for later and it ended up hurting the team in the long run.

I could understand if Horford was notorious for picking up early fouls and getting into foul trouble throughout games, sort of like Greg Oden was, but that’s just not Al Horford. Horford has done pretty well in the past staying out of foul trouble once he picks up early fouls, and if you need evidence, look at tonight’s game. Horford was taken out with 2 fouls and he ended up finishing up the game with a total of 2 fouls. Part of player development is letting your players learn to play through foul trouble, instead of taking them out all of the time.

Also, you mention that most teams do take out their star big men when they get into foul trouble. That’s true to some extent, but most coaches I’ve watched aren’t as cautious as L.D. Two fouls in the first half isn’t something to panic over. You have 6 for a game, and opposing players aren’t going to be going after you to try and foul you out until you hit around the 4 foul mark. Even if L.D. gambled and let Al stay in in the first half and he picked up a third foul, it would jeopardize the team or his usage. At that point, L.D. could take him out and he’d be fine to start the third quarter. Most likely, Al wouldn’t pick up that third foul anyway.

Also, if you want an example of a similar instance on another team, take the Orlando Magic for instance. Dwight Howard, for one, is far, far more foul prone than Al Horford and Stan Van Gundy is probably the most worrisome coach in the league, yet even Van Gundy will allow Dwight to stay in the second quarter (usually to some extent when he picks up a second foul). Van Gundy knows that the team will start to slide if he takes Dwight out, so he weighs out the risks and does what is best. That’s basically what he did in our game against them earlier in the season. Dwight picked up two fouls in the first half also, but Van Gundy let him continue playing. L.D. should do the same thing. If Al starts really getting into heavy foul trouble, or starts fouling out of games (which is highly unlikely), then L.D. could maybe resort to doing what he has been doing now, but until that happens, there’s no legitimate argument for benching one of your best players in a close game when he only has 2 fouls. If he picked up two fouls in the first quarter, I would sit him for the rest of the quarter and probably half of the second, but I know Al isn’t a foul prone player anyway.

One other thing that bothers me is that L.D. doesn’t seem to treat all of his players this way, in terms of sitting them due to early foul trouble. First off, it’s understandable to be more cautious with your big men, since they are typically more foul prone due to all the physicality down low. However, I’ve noticed that L.D. has never benched Josh for an entire quarter due to foul trouble, and I’ve seen Josh pick up 2 fouls in the first half before. Also, when you look at guards, L.D. would never bench Joe for a quarter due to foul trouble unless it was an extreme situation. There needs to be a set of ground rules if you use a system like this, and no player should be exempt without proving otherwise.

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@Alan

A lot of the “experts” on NBA TV are just bandwagon guys who will say what the media thinks people want to hear. Weber, Barkeley, McHale, etc. never give very good predictions. Barkeley and those guys were pretty much sold last year that the Cavaliers were going to win it all and completely counted Boston out. Then, they were all on the Miami Heat bandwagon before the season started, and once they season got going and the heat started losing, they jumped onto the Celtic bandwagon in the east. I really don’t take much of what they say seriously.

Weber says something different in his predictions almost every week. First, he had said that the Hawks weren’t going to to be good and claimed that they wouldn’t make the playoffs. After they got off to that 6-0 start, he apologized and said that he was wrong and claimed that they would be good this year and said he wanted to retract his previous statements. Now, after they went on a losing streak, he thinks they’re bad again and won’t make the playoffs. LOL. The guy is more Jekyll and Hyde than the Hawks team was last year. If the Hawks end up going on another big winning streak, look for him to say that they’ll be a top 4 seed in a couple of weeks.

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To me, the issue isn’t Drew taking Horford out after 2 fouls, it’s the amount of time he’s leaving him out. And even when he doesn’t have 2 fouls, he’ll sit for 10 minute stretches at times in the middle of the 1st half.

In the beginning, Drew was trying to develp Powell a little too much, which took away from Horford’s floor time. Now he’s doing what the former coach used to do with starters when they got 2 fouls in the 1st half.

Now granted, this tactic does give bench players a chance to play and prove their worth ( supposedly what the fans want, so our key players won’t be worn out by playoff time ).

But when the bench is sorry ( especially the bigs ), no amount of extra playing time is going to turn them “un-sorry”. So every attempt should be made to get Horford his 32 – 35 minutes a night . . unless we just don’t absolutely need him.

As for the game, it’s always good to see Smith in “beast mode” as some call it. When he’s playing like that, he’s an elite level player. And as long as he’s making 40% of his long 2 point shots, there’s nothing that can really be said about him taking the shot. I just want him to know when that shot isn’t falling, and always look to go to the hole first.

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I believe Josh is trying to acheive his goals from last season…

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@Leon, you said, “in regards to benching Al when he picks up two fouls, I think the main issue that a lot of people are having is that they feel that Al would be fine playing with two fouls. He’s not a heavily foul prone player, and in the past he has shown that he can play through foul trouble. It’s understandable to want to sit your key players when they pick up early fouls to preserve them for later in the game, but in some instances it hurts the team more than helping them.”

I want to believe that LD is trying to also TRY and teach AL a lesson by NOT PICKING UP UNNECESSARY fouls TOO early in the game when you are very much needed on the floor. This IS early in the season so if Coach Drew wants to teach any of his players a lesson, I’m all for him doing it early than later in the season.

You also said, “if you want an example of a similar instance on another team, take the Orlando Magic for instance. Dwight Howard, for one, is far, far more foul prone than Al Horford and Stan Van Gundy is probably the most worrisome coach in the league, yet even Van Gundy will allow Dwight to stay in the second quarter (usually to some extent when he picks up a second foul). Van Gundy knows that the team will start to slide if he takes Dwight out, so he weighs out the risks and does what is best.”

Now the difference between LD and Van Gundy is that Van Gundy is a VERY EXPERIENCED COACH, whereas, LD is a ROOKIE COACH! Van Gundy already has a comfort zone where he can take chances like that with Dwight..LD has to create HIS OWN comfort zone when it comes to making the RIGHT decision for him and his team. If his constance is telling him to take AL out with 2 QUICK FOULS,( I might add) than so be it..Im not mad at him for that. You cant compare a Rookie coach to a veteran coach..that’s just not fair..now if you were to compare him to New Orleans coach, than you might have a case, but even still, I’m not mad at LD decision on AL cause this will help both guys out in the long run as the season continues. LD may end up developing a peace of mind leaving him out there.

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Another reason why I’m not all BENT OUT OF SHAPE like these fans on here about LD sitting AL with 2 QUICK FOULS, is because AL is a Warrior, a LEADER, with extremely HIGH B-BALL IQ who knows how to handle any situation he is faced. Yeah, LD sits him longer than you guys THINK he should sit him, yet and still, AL comes back into the game producing like he never left!! Its NOTHING WRONG with LD TRYING to help develop his bench (once again early on into the season) so that these guys wont be burnt out by the time playoffs arrives. This is a new experience for LD, allow him to make his mistakes EARLY ON IN THE SEASON..WE ARE 8-4 FOR GOODNESS SAKE, NOT 6-6!!

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I’d rather LD get the experimentation and tinkering out of the way early so that he can settle on a rotation come playoff time, instead of letting the bench players rot all year and suddenly scramble to use them against Orlando in the playoffs like Woody. I still don’t think most of the Hawks’ bench players, particularly the big men, are worth their weight in sh-t, but I don’t have too much of a problem with LD trying different combinations now to figure out who he can rely on. Yes, it is frustrating to see Horford limited to 10 minutes in the first half if he picks up two fouls early, but it would be a lot more frustrating to see Zaza and Collins on the floor in crunch time.

I didn’t get a chance to see this game until the last five minutes, but I see the Hawks only turned it over 9 times today. I am too lazy to look up all the box scores for this season, but I believe that is a season low, and hopefully it means they are progressing in their understanding of the new offense.

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Correction on my last post:

I meant to say “throw an example”, not “through an example”.

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@Leon,

I do understand where you are coming from concerning AL and how long LD keeps him out, but haven’t you notice, LD uses his rotation based on how the game is flowing. I’m sure that if the game was getting far too away from us in the PF/C position that LD would have IMMEDIATELY put AL back in regardless of AL’s foul situation. I guess that’s why I’m enjoying everything about LD decision making thus far cause he bases everything from players to offensive/defensive plays on the flow of the game. Not the way Woody would do which was everybody would play the EXACTLY amount of min per game, NO MATTER WHO IS ON AND WHO IS OFF, everyone was designated their min per/game and that was STUPID, IMO of course!!

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MsDee,

This was from MC’s blog.

“Al picked up his second foul early in the second quarter and L.D. again gave him the hook. Horford said he was “frustrated” by having to sit .”

But Al is one of the smartest players on the team. Set him free. Oh, and BTW, Al is shooting 64% on the season. Give the man for field goal attempts.

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Great game from Josh. And I’m sure LD will keep working with him, because he still makes a couple bad decisions here and there. But he is a game changer.

Only 9 turnovers was great to see. If we keep our turovers to 10 or less, we should be in every game. One thing that helped us win this game was we were 8-15 from 3. Thats probably the best we’ve shot all year.

One concern, which has been a problem all season. Rebounding . We were outrebounded by 12.

Horford with 6 rebounds in 31 minutes? Thats bad. I dont know whats happened to his rebounding. His last 5 games rebounding? 5, 6, 8, 10, and 6. We need more rebounding from our starting center.

And even 8 for Josh is low. We need at least 10 rebounds each from Josh and Al every game. Hibbert had 15 in 33 minutes. We must improve our rebounding.

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also when you shoot a lot of jumpers rebounds are longer…explaining Bibby & Teague having 3 rebounds each.

But i also see rebounding…particularly defensive rebounding as an area they have to shore up…but teams can improve that slightly by positioning and things like that but can’t improve it dramatically.

Last year the Celtics were pretty average as far as rebounding so it can still work…

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MC, nice commentary on the game…THAT WAS A TREMENDOUS DEFENSIVE EFFORT BY THE HAWKS…great win!

Those were perhaps the most astute post game comments of young Josh career. Dude still has his moments…however I love the efforts, energy, and passion Josh has played with thus far…no reason why he can’t ascend to ALL Star level with the elite players in this league…I’m impress!!
Kudos to LD…for getting his guys refocused…after a spate of adversity…they have some big games coming up…LIKE THE BIRDS…this will be a great time to send a message to the rest of the league…THAT WE ARE FOR REAL FOLK!!! LOL

Doc, still don’t get a chance to post much…I you hope had a great time with yo sweet pea at the game…mine want be home until next week.

GO
HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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My confusion aside (previous comment), the Hawks looked good. The offense was clicking even though Joe was having an off-game, and aside from a horrible defensive stretch in the first half, the defense was solid. I really liked the fact that in crunch time — even when Indiana looked like they were going to make a run in the 4th — the Hawks held their composure and stayed within their gameplan. Very nice to win.

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Doc, That should have read…I hope you had a nice time with yo sweet pea…although I should have said sweet peas…in your case. lol

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ENOUGH! These guys are all human as well, where is the support, where is positivity! everyone (including national media) sounds like we are 0-8 and just drowning! Last night Chris Webber said on NBA TV ” I dont think Hawks will make the Playoff’s” really C Webb? After beating pacers in Indy, the team who dropped 155 on Melo? Why this much hate? Let these guys play some ball!! Is this really fair to Josh or Horford? show me another player working as hard as Josh? and he is 24! No offense but Dominic Wilkins could not shoot the ball till he was 27! And one shout out to Atlanta Spirit : ” Reduce the ticket prices!”

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Co-sign Astro Joe’s 10:34 comment.

If Al continues at this pace, he is definitely deserving of a repeat All Star appearance.

The same for Josh, too. If he continues at this pace, he is definitely deserving his 1st All Star appearance. However, with fan favorites Garnett, Amare, and Bosh in the East, I wonder if he will get snubbed again.

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AJ, Good point about Al’s shooting percentage. Especially in light of that goosegg he put up in the first game of the season.

J from the A, I don’t think Bosh gets All-Star consideration. He is stinking it up right now. If Miami is in third place behind Orlando & Atlanta he will be the scapegoat (after the coach). To solidify Al’s position as an All-Star the Hawks should run replays of Marvin dunking on Bosh in the preseason and Rondo’s dunk last week.

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Ken, I appreciate your pointing out that the Hawks lead the NBA in field goal efficiency becuase in every game I see blogposters complain about all the jumpshots the Hawks are taking as a part of the motion offense.

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Sautee, I’d like to see Al grab another 1-2 boards a game, but his rebounding rate is on par with Josh. He is only averaging 31 minutes a game after playing 35 minutes last season. The Hawks are 8-4 so it’s hard to argue that LD is hurting the team by sitting Al… but it doesn’t quite seem logical. A guy who shoots 63% is sitting on the bench because of 2 early fouls?

I just think that we’re missing the fact that Al is approaching thatrarified air of 20/10… because we’re focused on Josh’s new jump shot and because LD is wrapping Al in protective bubble-wrap too early in games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2011.html

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L.D. said the Hawks wanted to make Hibbert, the league’s top shot blocker, defend a lot of pick-and-rolls. Hibbert had one blocked shot in 33 minutes. “If you play a halfcourt game and allow him to sit there he can affect the game,” L.D. said. “We wanted to get him on the move.”

I understand the strategy, but since when is Hibbert the league’s top shot blocker? That honor belongs to none other than Josh Smith, who leads in both total blocks, blocks per 48 minutes, and blocks per game. There are five guys ahead of Hibbert….

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I can understand LD taking Horford out early with 2 fouls in the 1st half. If Horford is still on the court with 2 fouls. His already average defense, will translate to below average, passive defense. He will not be able to protect the rim physically, as he needs to do. I remember a handful of times last season where Woody would leave him in with 2 fouls, and his defense would turn into a gateway for the lane. Also, every one keeps saying that we haven’t played anyone tough really. So could LD be saving Al’s energy for the play off teams? Was it not Al who MC quoted as speaking about the fatigue early in the season?

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I just don’t want LD to act like Josh Powell deserves 15 – 20 minutes a game, while Al sits unnecessarily. And I’d like to see more of Al at PF, alongside Zaza. Drew is still feeling people out though, so it isn’t a major concern yet. But he can’t be letting Al sit vs these powerful teams, like the 2 we have coming up ( Dallas and Boston ).

And it’s nice to see Mr. Strickland back posting his words of encouragement, after making just a few appearances during the 4 game losing streak.

As of right now, the Hawks are not better than last year’s Hawks as this time. At this time last year, the Hawks were looking like a juggernaut. But in the long run, they may be ( depending on how they handle December and the 7 game road trip before and after the All-Star break ).

I’m happy to see this team handle the bad teams on the road. If they can keep doing that for the rest of the month, we may come away with a 13 – 5 record going into December.

And that’s exactly where we need to be.

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Guys, I think some of you are missing the point on Horford’s minutes. Coach Drew has said since camp that he wants to be careful not to run starters into the ground by over playing them. Yes, Joe Johnson has had to play big minutes some games, but that was due more to injury of other players (Williams & Evans).

I don’t see why resting Al is such a bad thing. It seems like all this debate started when Michael posted a link to the article that suggested Coach Drew was taking Al out too quickly when Al picked up early fouls. Until then, no one ever talked about this.

Resting Al throughout the regular season is not a bad thing. It isn’t. It will, hopefully, serve the team well in the playoffs.

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Horford has been playing less minutes and being pulled in and out. That spoils rhythm and affects rebounding.

The fact is that BEFORE yesterday’s game, both Josh and Al were rebounding MORE PER MINUTE.

The “new Hibbert” is a difficult match up due to his extreme length but Al delivered when it mattered: in the 4th Quarter.

We are 8-4 with just one loss in which we were not in position to win entering the final minute.

And that was with Mo and Marvin out or severely limited (they still are).

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“If you ask me, Josh Smith should be replacing Chris Bosh on the all-star team.”

If you ask me, he should have replaced KG last year.

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Roy Hibbert Missed a layup because he felt Smoove………….Good 1 lol

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Why won’t Twin teach Al his trick of standing outside the paint and drawing his patented offensive fouls? It would certain discourage drive penetration. I’ve seen Josh draw those fouls but I’ve never seen AL draw one. This may be part of the problem when Al is at the center position. He can’t seem to keep penetration out of the paint. Josh is getting so many block shots on help defense from inbound traffic.

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-Josh Smith is improved
-Horford is improved
-PG Defense improved (because Teague is gettin more mins)
-Motion Offense improves the team (less predictable/higher % shots)
-We’re deeper and bigger (simply because L.D. doesnt mind gettin guys like Collins off the bench when needed)

The Hawks look better prepared to handle a playoff series against an elite team this year. Atleast to the point where we should have chances to win each game, instead of gettin blown out every game.

Not to mention you just have to believe JJ will play better and we’ll probably make a significant move to improve the team even more before that time of year

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This team still needs a trade. Don’t forget the big picture which is getting to Eastern Conference Finals atleast. Jamal is okay but we still could use another good size SF, 6″7 and up, a defensive minded Center that deserves minutes, and a upgrade at the PG position. I am not like you inferior bloggers that whine and moan after every lost and think everything is okay after every win. The big picture is that this team is a playoff team that will struggle to get out of round 1 as currently structured.

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superiorblogman

Are you a bigot?

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In other news, Eva Longoria is soon to be a free agent.

From espn.com;

LOS ANGELES — Eva Longoria has filed for divorce from Tony Parker, citing irreconcilable differences..

Maybe she really didnt want to be in San Antonio after all.

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REV IN TAMPA-some so called fans are so desperate to trash LDrew, selected players, and the team overall, they either refuse, or are unable to see the increase in OFF efficiency, in number of open jumpers, FT attempts, as well as OFF and DEF rebounding. It’s like JEJE specifically singling out the 3gm home losing streak to try and point out the teams alledged lack of progress.

His negative minded way of processing things wouldn’t allow him to process or mention the 4gm road winning streak and/or our 5-1 road record, because it wouldn’t support his negative minded paradigm. There are people who still waste time trying to convince anyone stupid enough to listen that All Star center AHorford is the teams weakness and needs to be traded.

There are also those who insist JSmith is immature, shoots too many jumpers and should be traded, or is better suited to play SF, even though he may currently be the NBA’s best PF. I can’t wait to see how we do against the Celtics, who have become older, slower, and less athletic, while we’ve gotten quicker, faster, deeper and more athletic. This yr, that vaunted Celtic DEF will have to stop an entire OFF, rather than one or two players dominating the ball.

Last yr at this time we were 10-2 rather than 8-4, but we had the benefit of playing more home gms during that stretch. The majority of our next group of gms will be played on the road, which means we should have a home friendly schedule during our stretch run to the playoffs. I really like this team, and the fact we can win, especially on the road, without JJ or Jamal having big gms.

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Najeh,

I know this is Hawks blog, but comments on the Braves blog tend to get lost in the shuffle.

I’m surprised you’re not a big a fan of the Uggla trade (especially if we only have him for one season).

I know that his defense and strikeouts are a big issue, but it’s hard to argue with 30HR, 30 doubles, and 90 RBIs, which he has basically averaged for the last 5 seasons.

And having him behind Chipper will force pitchers to give Chipper something to hit.

And if we lose Uggla next year, we will get a draft pick from whoever signs him, and a supplemental pick as well (assuming Uggla lives up to his averages).

Infante will be a free agent after this season, so it’s also possible he might have been with us one more year too. And he was coming off a career year, so I think selling high is the way to go.

Even if Uggla is a one year rental, I like the move a lot.

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its stupid because you know Bosh is going to get all star votes because of this espn game. he’s abusing channing frye’s weak a$$ D

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will they get an outfield bat now though??
and I wonder how Freeman will do at first…..he is going to be the starter next year right???

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Guys,

Watching the Mavs/Hornets game. If you have League Pass, check it out. They played on Monday, I watched, great game. Tonight’s looking like another good finish.

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when complaining about Al not being a true center,
remember this: Greg Oden is officially out for the season. 2nd time in 4 years.

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drmaryb

Bustin loose! That was Rick James all the way.

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That’s true….we could have been suck with Oden lol. Here in Hawks’ country we tend to focus too much on the negative (at times myself included) but we hardly ever talk about the positive.

We talk about Marvin over CP3. Well atleast we got Horford over Oden.
This year the theme is that we havent beaten a playoff team, buy ya know what? We also havent LOST to a non-playoff team or bad team.

Even Boston, Orlando, Chicago, Milwaukee, and Miami cant say that as they have all dropped games to atleast 1 sub-par team.

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One guy I wanted to see interviewed this offseason, was Thibodeau, the defensive guru behind the Celtics.

Thibodeau’s Bulls gave up 37 third quarter points and 29 fourth quarter points to the Spurs (after giving up 37 the entire first half).

I guess coaches can’t do it on their own, no matter the scheme. They need the right players.

With Oden out for the season again, I can’t help but feel bad for Blazers fans. After taking Sam Bowie over MJ (which is understandable, because they already had Clyde Drexler), Bowie never lived up to the hype (partly due to injuries), while MJ went on to become MJ.

And now, they draft Oden (which is understandable, since he was the next star center), and who will have played 82 games in 4 seasons, over KD, who has been a scoring champ, and a gold medal winner on Team USA.

I know BK was horrible in drafting Marvin over CP3 or Deron, but at least Marvin contributes in some way (although he’s still not consistent enough).

And BK was horrible in drafting Shelden over Roy and anybody else. But at least Shelden was part of the deal to get Bibby.

I feel bad for Oden too. Seems like a good guy, but injuries have ruined his career before it even got started.

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uggla is a masterful pick up if it doesnt turn out to be texiera. it already smells better because less was given up and not a desperation move. if grandad is right and he is signed at a reasonable deal then it is real cool unless the all star we traded blossoms even further and stays cost efficient. najeh’s point about his defensive liabilites are huge on a team that has quality pitching as its goal but no over powering guys but guys who depend on defense. dont make a pitcher feel he has to strike everyone out and ground balls are not good. in the end if they improve and he signs then it is great. if he is a borrowed player like so many before and the two guys blossom like we have now seen in st louis with wainright and several in texas then we have been taken.

back to bball. nice work MC.

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FIRE RICK SUND

NOT COMPILING A CHAMPIONSHIP ROSTER WHEN U COULD’VE

DID NOTHING THIS OFFSEASON

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Doc,

This is nothing like the Tex trade, based on who we gave up. Infante is a solid player, with good defense and plays multiple positions, but probably will not develop into a 30HR, 90 RBI guy.

And the reliever (although solid), will probably not develop into an all-star closer.

I am concerned about our team defense though. Hopefully nobody hits the ball to him.

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o’b fair comments on the shels thing. i wasnt uncomfortable with the concept because we needed help at that position and we knew basg in court was not going to go out and buy a worthy big. yes, to have traded down and maybe gotten more for shels was the way to go instead of sending out messages everywhere he was our guy which didnt make sense. it was a poor year for bigs that year though milsaps came that year in the second round. he might have been the best of the bunch. we made up for the bad luck that year in getting good luck to have al h fall in our lap so it kind of worked out. interesting shels doesnt seem to be embarrassing himself in denver at 900 grand a year. a very reasonable investment.

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How Luck makes a man a GENUIS..(ODEN)

OKC was lucky enough to NOT get the 1st pick in the draft, so KDurant fell into their lap. KD becomes a transendant players, while ODEN is a shattered windshield.

OKC has become a model franchise in the NBA and our held as a GOLD STANDARD on how to build a franchise…ALL because their were LUCKY.

People seem to forget that Billy Knight and ASG has drafted 2 potenial Allstars(AL and Josh), trade for a 4 time allstar(JOE) and laid the foundation for a perrenial playoff team…..BUT THE HAWKS GET NO LOVE!

People forget that OKC was one of the worst franchises in the(Seattle Supersonics) NBA before they were LUCKY enough to get the 2 pick(KDurant).

If the Hawks were LUCKY enough to get the 2nd pick and OKC had any other pick, they would still be the Sonics, BK would still be the GM and the Hawks would be the GOLD STANDARD in the league.

FUNNY HOW LUCK CAN CHANGE PERCEPTION….

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Looks like AC Law will have to find yet another team. I watched Memphis rookie PG Greivis Vasquez play the other night and this kid looks promising….

http://blogs.commercialappeal.com/the_memphis_edge/2010/11/acie-laws-days-with-the-grizzlies-be-numbered.html

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“If the Hawks were LUCKY enough to get the 2nd pick and OKC had any other pick, they would still be the Sonics, BK would still be the GM and the Hawks would be the GOLD STANDARD in the league.”

Interesting way of putting it, since the flip side is that the pick used on Horford was top 3 protected, and if the Hawks had ended up with pick 4 or lower it would have gone to Phoenix to complete the Joe Johnson trade, practically ensuring that the Hawks wouldn’t have made the playoffs that year and that BK would have been fired following that season regardless.

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Wonder if the Hawks will try and make a run at Greg Oden at season’s end. He’ll be a UFA since Portland did not offer him an extension. Obviously he’s VERY injury prone, as he’s only played in 82 of 328 possible games, but still. Might be worth a gamble.

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Freshmaker, I hope not. After the organization blew tons of cash on Speedy Claxton (not that Oden is a piece of trash like Speedy), it would be hard to spend dough on another walking injury (though, at least Oden’s injuries are real and not faked).

My question is: When Oden does sign (or re-sign) with a team, how much will he net? With the CBA he might be screwed.

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@Section 303: I dunno, it will be interesting to see how much he’s offered. Someone will surely make a run at him. The SI article I read said that Portland was unlikely to even give Oden a qualifying offer of ~8.5M, so I would assume he’d make less than that. I don’t know what a fair offer would be given his circumstances, but he’s a 7 footer with a world of talent that could be had without trading away anyone. If we end up not resigning JC1 we’d have some funds available, right? Obviously we wouldn’t offer anything near what Jamal’s making.

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FRESHMAKER-my sentiments exactly. While Teague has yet to find himself offensively, he’s been an invaluable contributor defensively. His DEF is the main reason we haven’t been distroyed by opposing PG’s, which occurred routinely last yr. In fact, he and Bibby have formed a pretty productive 1-2 punch, with the combination providing us with quality OFF and DEF.

I took a look at our schedule for the next 3months, and the remainder of this month, and it’s a good thing we’ve learned to win on the road, and here’s why:
NOV-3@-3VS
DEC-9@-8VS with 6 back to backs
JAN–8@-6VS with 5 back to backs
FEB–8@-4VS with 3 back to backs and 5 consecutive rd gms.

How we handle this stretch will determine how much we’ve improved and how competitive we’ll be come playoff time.

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For Ken Strickland: [@ 2:27 pm]

A variance from the conventional KS post.

I would be opposed to a Teaguer fo Thompson trade.
Teaguer = a need.
Thompson = redundancy, (although talented to some degree)
[also not a shot-blocking-rim-defender]
* Question, why is SAC-town, suddenly in a mood to trade Thmpsn?

I have always liked Troy Murphy.
Still do.
He fits perfectly with LD’s offense + he rebounds.
I’ve been working *feverishly on a trade (trade machine),
salaries are tricky unless we just do a Jamal for TM straight up.
*I really have been testing it on trade machine,
and I really do have a slight temp,
so I really have been working on it feverishly. ahem!

Side Note:
[prediction] = Uggie re-signs & retires a Brave.

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Shelden Williams was truly disappointing when he got to the league.

he could do everything in college against quality teams. Rebound, score and convincingly block shots plus he was strong as an ox. I remember him dominating Tyrus Thomas and Big Baby in the tournament (too bad the rest of the team no showed).

When he got to the league it seemed like he lost all talent. Scoring went down which is almost always the case but his staple of defense and rebounding went down as well plus he was getting pushed around on the block. He became a bonafide scrub. I know he was on the Celtics last year but is he still in the league???

As far as Jeff Teague for Jason Thompson….no way. Why do we need another 6-10 power forward??? Especially one as thin as Jason Thompson when we have 6 PFs/Cs on the team and only 2 PGs???? Just makes absolutely no sense. If Teague can channel his college self (which was aggression) then he can be a starting caliber point guard.

Jordan Crawford for Jason Thompson makes a little more sense. We have 3 SGs ahead of Crawford (meaning he’s not playing) and then maybe Powell and Thompson can share minutes.

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Just a quick thought. After watching so many Hawks games last years where analysts would talk about other team’s schooling the Hawks and picking apart our defense with ball movement, it’s really refreshing to know that we are now the ones who are picking apart defenses with our ball movement. I like this trend.

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Send the Hawks to Hollywood. Vote for all 6 players for All-Stars including Marvin William

http://www.nba.com/hawks/vote/2011.html

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Just out of curiosity, does anyone think that the Suns have a legitimate shot at beating the Magic tonight? I would love to see the Suns defeat the Magic tonight to propel Atlanta into first place in the southeast division, however, I, personally, doubt that the Suns will be able to pull out a win against a team that is basically better than them at everything they do, including shooting the 3-ball. With basically no interior presence, and no real interior post defender (unless you think Channing Frye is a good post defender), I think the Suns may struggle big time against Dwight, and be forced to double team him, thereby giving up lots of open looks to Orlando’s shooters. At any rate, it should be fun to watch.

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I wonder what’s the price tag for Aaron Brooks right now.

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he’s been an invaluable contributor defensively. His DEF is the main reason we haven’t been distroyed by opposing PG’s,

How in the hel_ can you make such a stupid statement. Dude plays freekin 15 minutes a game. WOW!! I’ve heard it all.

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drmaryb

If you hit that lottery don’t forget about me. I’m the one who will be totin your luggage and driving you around the world. You right some people can’t handle money. Imngine having that kind of money and in the next 5 to 6 years you broke.

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All Star voting has begun … make sure to vote for your favorite Hawks players!

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According to all the “Woody Haters”, the regular season means nothing. According to the “Woody Haters” he should have disregarded the regular season and played Jeff Teague regardless of the fact that he was lost on the court on defense, turned the ball over constantly and could not shoot.

Fast forward to the slick talking LD and what do you know. JC2 is glued to the bench, Jeff Teague is playing 15 minutes a game. We have the 3rd best record in the conference against teams who likely will be fishing come March and April. So what has changed?

By the way Ken:
Teagues (+/-) numbers against playoff teams
PHX-(-6)
ORL-(-11)
MIL-(-6)
UTA-(0)

Bibby
PHX-(0)
ORL-(+10)
MIL-(-3)
UTA-(+2)

Really, he’s playing too much according to those numbers.

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drmaryb, I hear ya on the Dang…and rise you one. lol

I too have had flashes of what it would look like with Teague pushing the ball, and Josh and Al filling the lane…Dude made some sick passes on the break…in his brief stint last season…I WANT TO SEE SOME MORE OF THAT.

Samuel, what’s up dawg…make yo woody haters…yo motivators. CMON Man…LD is one of Woody’s boys…Surely, you can give Dude some support. lol

Hey, I like Woody too…now that he is no longer coaching the Hawks…I like even better. See…It’s a lot bloggers that loooooooooooove Woody now. heh heh

GO LD, AND GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Samuel, BTW it nice see ole Solo the other night…Woody made a man. I always liked ole Solo. You got a lot to be proud of dawg…yo boy efforts…weren’t in vain.

Aint gon even hit u with a GO LD on this one…I’m ma just say GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

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ken s prado will be at third and uggla at second if and when the time comes. he has never played anything but second and wren and gonzalez have stated as much. if chipper is back, prado goes to where he plays in winter ball, left field. i can only hope the chipper saga ends smoothly so they can sign the guy to a longterm contract.

yo shels is starting on the denver nuggets.

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OBRIEN-The fact that management wouldn’t allow BK to fire Woodson, and gave him the contract extension rather than BK, proves Woodson had more decision making power than previously thought. BK wanted to play an uptempo style of OFF and wanted an uptempo type of PG to make it happen. Woodson wanted a much slower half court oriented style and wanted a veteran PG to run his OFF no matter what.

That’s why past their prime veteran PG’s like TLue, AJohnson, SClaxton, when he was able, and MBibby, got heavy mins even if they lacked speed, quickness, penetrating and/or shooting ability, or the ability to play DEF. If it was BK’s decision, rather than Woodson’s, not to draft CP3 or DWilliams, then why would Woodson feel the need to publically state his doubts about the abilitity of either player to be successful at the NBA level?

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Ken,

I think Woody deserves some of the blame, but BK and ownership take some of the blame too. I think we give Woody too much blame at times when the blame should be shared with GM and ownership.

We say Woody wanted Bibby, ZaZa and Marvin back. And he did.

But ultimately, it was up to Sund to resign them, at a certain salary, for a certain number of years. Because even if the coach leaves, the GM still has to deal with the players that remain after the coach is long gone.

Just like now, Woody is gone, but we still have Marvin, Bibby and ZaZa on payroll.

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Ken,

My two cents

“The fact that management wouldn’t allow BK to fire Woodson, and gave him the contract extension rather than BK, proves Woodson had more decision making power than previously thought.”

This is true, certainly validated that he had more influence than perhaps most of us thought.

“BK wanted to play an uptempo style of OFF and wanted an uptempo type of PG to make it happen. Woodson wanted a much slower half court oriented style and wanted a veteran PG to run his OFF no matter what.”

I’m not so sure there was a clash of style difference between BK and Woody. Actually they both wanted a veteran PG which naturally created problems since a good one wasn’t easily acquired. During that time, perhaps Speedy was the best available veteran PG on the market with championship credentials. Obviously his injury problems went undetected but during his hay-days with the Spurs, he was known as an effective penetrating PG that loves to break-down defenses by getting in the paint. I wouldn’t necessarily call Speedy a slow half court oriented style PG when he was “on his game.” If you’re just talking about a “fast break” opportunity Speedy would push the ball and initiate opportunities for his teammates. On the other hand, Bibby plays the PG position much like a tweener SG so his tendency is not to breakdown defenses but to spot-up for the long threes. He would be more in the mode of a “slower half court oriented style” you are referring as well as TLue and AJohnson. But BK pursuit of these of these players had more to do with their availability than their style IMO.

If Woody wanted a “slower half court oriented style” PG, he certainly contradicted himself when he drafted Jeff Teague because that was certainly his choose.

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I thought that we were 8-4, running a great offense and destined for unprecedented success? Why do we need to revisit past drafts and roster moves when LD has corrected every previous mistake and healed all wounds?

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I, for one, could care less about the 6th guard who is at best Mario West and at worse Speedy Claxton. I’d rather have an update on Antoine Carr’s whereabouts than wonder about Drew’s personal pet project with the gimpy back. (I’d love to see Carr work with our bigs on post play).

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I’m guessing Carr would look like a bus by now. What is he doing? Is it time for a 20-25 year reunion already?

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Grandad

“Here it is basketball season;
and all the talk is ancient history.
Once again folks wonder why Hawk fans don’t show up for games?
AJC/MC absentia!
In other towns @ least the media is talkin Hoops!
Hawks are off = MC “I’m out”
I guess there is no news on off days.
Now I shall go to a;
Dallas, ORL, Indy, DC, or Sheboygan newspaper
in order to find some Hawks news.”

If the ASG wants to sell tickets they can start by displacing the writer who seemingly has no feelings /passion at all whatsoever toward the team he writes about. I don’t mind MC’s posts, but they are informative at best, something any blogger here could produce. Due to the distanced tone, lack of passion, the posts are incredibly counter-productive to establishing anything positive and lasting about professional basketball in this city. Bret Lagree over at Hoopinion, a blog deemed to run on his pessimistic, truthful view of the Hawks, oozes with passion and knowledge, and win or lose, provides things a basketball fan might actually want to read and think about. Not merely lackluster articles written about lackluster performances. However MC, since this is just “your job,” and not something that requires you to express emotion, I’m sure these comments will not affect you (if you read them at all).
If I were the ASG, I’d offer to buy your position out from the AJC in lieu of someone that might actually spark a positive interest in the Hawks, regardless of how they play, win or lose.

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So true oldtimer, these games are critical to encouraging the fan base. The 4 game streak was enough to kill the fan base, 2 more and who will care. We ned hard play, great games. Wins would go far in helping this team. We need them desperately.

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