Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 111, Timberwolves 105

Najeh Davenpoop

November 14th, 2010
8:12 pm

Another lackluster, uninspiring win by the Hawks. I guess if there are enough bad teams on the schedule, they can pad their win total, but they still haven’t played one game at a level that will get it done in the playoffs.

Big Ray

November 14th, 2010
8:24 pm

Co-sign Najeh .

Seen a couple of games where the effort and execution was there, but failure to execute on a couple of plays was the difference. Orlando and Phoenix games are such examples.

Hawks deserve to be 7-4 based on schedule. What they should be is a different story.

superiorblogman

November 14th, 2010
8:27 pm

Who gives a p/huck about one sorry team beating another sorry team? Upgrade the defense of this sorry shi+fest.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2eh3u65

Marvin, Zaza, and Mike Bibby
for
Lou Williams and Andre Iguodala

PG Lou Williams/Teague
SG Joe/ Jamal/Jordan
SF Iggy/Mo
PF Josh Smith/Powell
C Horford/Collins/

Sautee

November 14th, 2010
8:29 pm

Didn’t see the game, but I was glad to see Horford and Smith in double digits in rebounding. Regardless of the result, we HAD to improve on the boards.

Fan

November 14th, 2010
8:30 pm

This team is lazy and gets undisciplined with a lead. They should establish a goal of winning by 10 points minimum, and see how many games they can win by 20+, 30+, etc. during the season. That would give them something to focus on together and might keep them from giving up so many big leads, if they start playing a different game called “win BIG” rather than simply outscoring the opponent by one or more points.

Sautee

November 14th, 2010
8:31 pm

s-blogman,

You really think Lou Williams would improve our perimeter defense?

Really?

ignition

November 14th, 2010
8:38 pm

After watching this game I’ve come to the conclusion that LD has to start putting butts on the bench if they don’t give effort play defense or rebound..
Josh Powell and Za Za did NOTHING on the court..
Teague needs more minutes cause Jamal’s defense is no existent… Bibby’s not much better..
If you wanna be a defensive team then put the players on the floor that play defense..
Josh Jamal and Joe have to make better decisions in the 4th Quarter, more importantly RUN the offense too many turnovers and poor execution.. Ball Movement is a Must and Joe should not have the ball PERIOD,.. KILL iso Joe permanently !!!!!

Najeh Davenpoop

November 14th, 2010
8:52 pm

“After watching this game I’ve come to the conclusion that LD has to start putting butts on the bench if they don’t give effort play defense or rebound..
Josh Powell and Za Za did NOTHING on the court..”

Easier said than done. Josh Powell should be in the D-League and Zaza isn’t too far behind, but thanks to Rick Sund, LD doesn’t really have a choice but to play them.

O'Brien

November 14th, 2010
9:10 pm

Hawks are 7-0 against potential lottery teams, and 0-4 against possible playoff teams. And the Hawks gave up 33 fourth quarter points to the Timberwolves, at home.

If we want to be an elite team, our defense has to improve.

That being said, we needed this win, so I will gladly take it.

And Teague needs to be a sponge and soak up everything LD and the coaching staff, and Bibby etc., are telling him. This is no time for sensitivity.

With only 2 games in 7 days, I hope the hawks will regroup, and play hungry.

I still think Rick will have to make a trade to change the dynamic on this team.

JeJe.

November 14th, 2010
9:48 pm

This team just does not play defense. It can lose to any team in the league the way it plays.

PLAY SOME DEFENSE, GUYS

Mz. Hawkdafied

November 14th, 2010
10:11 pm

7-4 instead of 6-5 back on the winning track. Go Hawks!

richbrave

November 14th, 2010
10:19 pm

Anybody here that’s unhappy with the team and wants a trade. Well there are six players on the WIZARDS right now that might be available if you want to ship out HAWKS players. By name:

HAMDAN N’DIAYE
NICK YOUNG
JIANLIAN YI
HILTON ARMSTRONG
JOSH HOWARD
LESTER HUDSON

I’d include GILBERT ARENAS, but I don’t think you want his contract.

vava74

November 14th, 2010
10:23 pm

don’t over react.

we are precisely where we all predicted we would be: still assimilating a new philosophy, struggling at the PG spot and struggling to incorporate on the new offensive and defensive schemes a guy who is a streaky shooter and a liability on D.

we need that Jamal is traded asap – anything in return is enough for me – and for Teague to be the first man off the bench to provide some D at the PG position and to bring some drive and dish game.

Telfair was having a field day against Bibby – whose shot is off again. He looked better off the gate but now has again faded dramatically.

This was yet another game where we stopped executing the offense with Jamal on the floor.

30 minutes of Jamal = poor team play.

Josh was again excellent in some things and horrible on others, the latter specially down stretch.

kwooden1

November 14th, 2010
10:37 pm

I’ll take the win. Didn’t see the game, tried to follow it on the internet. Looks like we’re still learning to finish off games.

GO HAWKS!!!

Ra'mon

November 14th, 2010
10:44 pm

I still can’t think of a better trade for the Hawks that is realistic than the one I put forth including the Sacramento Kings. And although we wouldn’t know if Sund attempted a trade like that or not. I wouldn’t be able to understand why he wouldn’t try it. The trade would make the Hawks better defensively. Which in terms may make them better offensively, because the 2nd unit would have more fast break opportunities.

If anyone missed it, The trade was:

Hawks get:
Samuel Dalembert
Jason Thompson
F. Garcia

Sacramento Kings get:
Jamal Crawford
Zaza Pachula
Mo Evans
and 1st round pick.

Section 303

November 14th, 2010
10:45 pm

vava74, I hear what you’re saying, but the Hawks should have two more wins. They just blew the games with Utah and Orlando. Especially, the Utah game…still not sure how they p#ssed that one away.

I have to say I called it. After watching Josh Smith shoot at the open practice, I told you he had better mechanics with his jumper and looked more fluid. But, he is starting to settle too much for that shot.

He is not smart enough to handle this “you have the green light to shoot” thing. He takes that as he HAS to shoot whenever open, instead of driving to the hoop when he has the chance. The shots went in today, but they won’t go in all the time. At somepoint, Josh has to grow up. He has all the tools. Limited by his 10-cent head.

lewis

November 14th, 2010
11:08 pm

blogs were more active during the off-season

how telling

Ra'mon

November 14th, 2010
11:16 pm

Lewis, the blogs are inactive because the Hawks won. When they lose it only takes 30 minutes for there to be 20 pages up.

lewis

November 14th, 2010
11:18 pm

lol too true

Grandad

November 14th, 2010
11:30 pm

Ra’mon

No disrespect intended, but that’s a goofy trade idea.
As a matter if fact it’s so incomprehensible
that I won’t even critique the uneveness.

I do apologize ahead of time for my rudeness.

Najeh Davenpoop

November 14th, 2010
11:57 pm

Ramon, that’s not a bad trade in terms of talent (although I would hang on to the pick) but it doesn’t do much to help the Hawks with their mentality and toughness, which are their weaknesses right now. Dalembert is a nice help defender, but he’s not the kind of gritty man defender the Hawks need at the center position. I do like Garcia and Thompson though.

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
12:40 am

Grandad, you say that’s an uneven trade? How? Dalembert is an expiring contract who plays the same position the Kings lottery pick (Cousin plays). And they’re looking for more playing time of Cousin and Landry together. Jason Thompson is in the doghouse in Sacramento, and has seen his playing time dip in this season. And Garcia, while talented, he has had problems of injuries in the past. Zaza could be used to back up Cousin, and he would be able to produce more (my opinion) in the West than in the east. Also Evans and Zaza are half the price that Dalembert and Garcia are, with not a huge drop off in production. Jamal Crawford offers the Kings the only potential player on their roster who could drop 40 plus once a month effortlessly. So he would be very entertaining for the fans there. Also they get a first round pick to add depth next season at any position to go along with their lottery pick.

As far as the Hawk go, this is a trade instantly makes your second unit better in every aspect. Garcia can guard 3 positions, and it would allow Teague to have the ball in his hands a lot more. Thompson (who can play PF and C, only makes $2 mil a season) and Dalembert would provide more than a substantial front court for the second unit. And the rebounding would improve instantly. The second unit would potentially be a better defensive unit than the first unit. Also Dalembert played D12 as tough as I’ve seen anyone play him 2 seasons ago in the playoffs. Trading the draft pick is a good thing for the Hawks, because they save $1.5-$2.5 million that would be guaranteed. And they can use that on minimum contracts next season when the salary cap will be lowered due to the new CBA.

Starters
Bibby
Joe
Marvin
Josh
Horford

Bench
Teague
JC2
Garcia
Thompson
Dalembert

with Collins, Powell as reserves (release Etan, or have him on inactive).

Najeh, I think the Hawks are strong mentally. I think the Hawks biggest problem is TRUST, and its very understandable. The first unit don’t trust the bench to hold leagues or build on leads when they enter the game. I haven’t seen a team yet that blew by the Hawks while the starters were in the game. The Hawks losses (even last season) normally came when either the starters played too many minutes and wore down before the end of the 4th quarter. Or the bench would give up substantial leads the starters built up. And by then, the opposition has a nice rhythm to their offense that lasts the rest of the game. That deal would instantly strengthen the bench with only $2-3 million more invested. Also Najeh, I think next season the picks will be overrated because of the pending lockout.

MsDee

November 15th, 2010
1:15 am

@Ramon, I aint gonna lie, I was with Grandad on that trade but after you broke it down how both teams would benefit, I say Sund, GO FOR IT!! It actually makes sense!!

Reggie

November 15th, 2010
1:17 am

This is from Espn.com

Thompson is averaging just 15.4 minutes per game off the bench and has been shopped by the Kings, who according to one source with knowledge of the talks offered the 6-11, 250-pounder to Atlanta in a deal featuring young point guard Jeff Teague. The Hawks declined.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:23 am

Ramon that’s a stupid trade and does not make the Hawks better. The Hawks need another all-star quality player. I am starting to agree that adding some piece just to add a piece will not get the Hawks to the next level. The Hawks need to throw Al Horford or Josh Smith along with others at Denver even if Carmelo will not resign because they are not going anywhere with this current roster anyway.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=269va6p

Denver gets

Josh Smith, Jamal Crawford, Zaza and a 1st round pick

Atlanta gets

Carmelo and Nene

Don’t even worry about resigning Carmelo if we can’t then its fine. We keep Nene regardless and get better.

Bibby/Teague
Joe/Jordan/Mo
Carmelo/Marvin
Horford/Powell
Nene/Collins

The year after Carmelo is gone we still have

Bibby/Teague
Joe/Jordan
Marvin/upgrade the backup
Horford/upgrade the backup
Nene/upgrade the backup

My point is you are going to have to choose between Al and Josh because salaries are just going to continue to grow for both and you don’t want to continue to pay guys huge money then pay them out of position.

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
1:32 am

superblog, You say that’s a stupid trade, but then post that trade? As talented as Josh is (and I don’t believe Melo is as good of a player as Josh is). Denver would have no reason to trade for Josh as long as Kenyon Martin is on the roster.

@ Reggie, I wouldn’t include Teague in the deal either.

@ MsDee, I understand. I just don’t see the Hawks EVER competing without improving the bench totally. If you look at the Celtics’ 2nd unit. Every player they have at those positions with the exception of Jamal and Nate, are better than our second unit. Our 7th man (Zaza) would be their 11-12th man off the bench. Glen Davis, Shaq, J O’Neal, and Daniels, are each better than any player we have on the bench after Jamal. So you have to trade your best pieces that aren’t a part of the ‘proverbial core’, that would be Jamal, Zaza, Mo, and a 1st round pick.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:34 am

Reggie

November 15th, 2010
1:17 am

This is from Espn.com

Thompson is averaging just 15.4 minutes per game off the bench and has been shopped by the Kings, who according to one source with knowledge of the talks offered the 6-11, 250-pounder to Atlanta in a deal featuring young point guard Jeff Teague. The Hawks declined.

Teague for Thompson does not work straight up so it depends on what the other pieces were.

I would like to know what those other pieces were. That is a trade I would do as long as Josh, Al, nor Jordan were involved and I doubt they were involved, but I personally think Sund is a ignorant SOB so he is still in love with Teague’s potential when the potential of a 6″11 guy looks a lot better than the potential of a 6″1 guy to me. The management is horrible.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27gunp6

Hawks get
Jason Thompson and Donte Greene

Kings get
Teague and Mo Evans

I would do it in a minute.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:35 am

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
1:32 am

superblog, You say that’s a stupid trade, but then post that trade? As talented as Josh is (and I don’t believe Melo is as good of a player as Josh is). Denver would have no reason to trade for Josh as long as Kenyon Martin is on the roster.

@ Reggie, I wouldn’t include Teague in the deal either.

@ MsDee, I understand. I just don’t see the Hawks EVER competing without improving the bench totally. If you look at the Celtics’ 2nd unit. Every player they have at those positions with the exception of Jamal and Nate, are better than our second unit. Our 7th man (Zaza) would be their 11-12th man off the bench. Glen Davis, Shaq, J O’Neal, and Daniels, are each better than any player we have on the bench after Jamal. So you have to trade your best pieces that aren’t a part of the ‘proverbial core’, that would be Jamal, Zaza, Mo, and a 1st round pick.

You sound very uninformed. Kenyon’s contract is expiring. So, why would they resign a guy that has been injured that much?

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
1:47 am

Superior, if they’re trying to clear cap space, which has been documented, how would acquiring Josh, who still has more years left on his contract, accomplish that? Especially when they wouldn’t have a starting center left on their roster?

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
1:52 am

Also Superior, you trade your best defensive player for two players who is known for everything not involving defense, and that makes your team better how? Nene hasn’t performed on the defensive end in the playoffs in the West. Why would we expect him to do it in a tougher east (at his position)? Carmelo is a high volume scorer. So how does that really help the Hawks in the playoffs? The Hawks still would be unable to get stops for a extended period of time. The Hawks need to improve their defense, not the offense first.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
2:04 am

Ramon you sound very lost. First you say you would not put the 6″1 Jeff Teague who is living off of potential in a trade for the 6″11 Jason Thompson who has already been productive in the NBA and still has loads of potential; check his career numbers, then you claim that Josh Smith is a better player than Carmelo. You are very ignorant of basketball if you think that Josh Smith is anywhere close to Carmelo in basketball. It is a reason that Josh got cut from the USA team before far less talented players and that is because Josh just can not be trusted to perform at a high level consistently,which is the same reason that Javal McGee got cut. On the other hand, Carmelo can get 25 pts and 8 reb on anyone, case closed. You sound crazy saying Josh is better than Carmelo, you have to do it consistently you do know that correct? Finally, please don’t mention Rondo is a case proven that the people picking the USA team could be wrong because Rondo’s inability to shoot causes serious problems in the International game.

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
2:26 am

Superior, you contradicted your own self in your post. The same exact reason Rondo wasn’t chose was the same reason Josh Smith wasn’t chosen 2-3 years ago! His lack of a consistent jumper didn’t translate good in international play. Also please do not inflate the stats. Carmelo is averaging 25 and 8 now, this season. But his career average is only 6.2 a game. That means your hero, savior for the franchise is only averaging less than one rebound than Marvin Williams. Also even at the power forward position Josh Smith has averaged more assists and steals per game than your hero. The only three categories that Carmelo is better in than Josh is ppg, ft%, and 3pt%. That’s it. So Josh gives you more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, more steals, better defense, better field goal percentage, and he does all of this for half of the price that it will cost to sign Melo. And remember, with Josh having a better percentage its not impossible to believe given the amount of attempts Melo get a game, that Josh would average comparable in points. Last season, Carmelo averaged over 9 shots per game more than Josh. Nine shots per game more is a lot. And I guarantee you, that Carmelo had the ball in his hands on offense longer than Josh did. Yet Josh still out performed him in ever category except for points. By the way, Melo’s 3pt shooting is overrated also. Because as much criticism Josh catches for shooting the 3. Melo is only shooting 5% better than Josh. That doesn’t sound like the next Mark Price to me. And on the defensive side of the ball, Melo doesn’t come even close to being as much of an impact as Josh is. Josh Smith is a better basketball player than Carmelo Anthony. While Carmelo gets the points, he is overrated.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
2:37 am

Josh Smith has the ball in his hands too much now, he tries to run the show instead of finishing and turns it over too much and he does not know how to play basketball that’s why he plays erratic. You don’t have that problem with players like Carmelo because they are just more solid players that understand winning and how to play intelligently at a far greater rate than Josh. A team with Josh Smith on it will never ever win a championship. I will put it to you like this, swap Paul Pierce and Carmelo and the Celtics are a better team. Swap Lamar Odom with Josh Smith and the Lakers would not have won any of those recent titles. Josh is a very ignorant basketball player and his teams will be losers if he plays a significant role.

Shyne G

November 15th, 2010
3:38 am

Man we need to hurry up and make trades!!!

EmirS.

November 15th, 2010
4:54 am

Ramon = My new internet idol.

I don’t follow the numbers myself that much, but breaking it down really does make you question why are alot of us after Carmelo now? I was on the band wagon of having ‘Melo in here, but after seeing that one post, Im starting to question myself now.

EmirS.

November 15th, 2010
5:00 am

However, one thing that I will gree with superiorblogman, is that Josh is getting somewhat ignorant. I dont mind seeing him move the ball up the court once or twice, but I’m seeiing it as a frequent thing at times now. And I do NOT want to see Smoove taking a roll of a PG.

Geemack

November 15th, 2010
5:10 am

ok so the Hawks beat 1 of the worst teams in the league by 6, at home after droping 4 straight, with 3 of the last 4 at home.

They still played horrible defense.

They still got out hustled, and had poor offensive execution.

We in for a long season.

vava74

November 15th, 2010
5:47 am

Section 303 and all the rest of the guys who have been blogging recently the doom and gloom around here:

We are 11 games into the season and we had 4 losses in row when did not have Marvin and Mo.

Without our 3 possible SF rotational players (Marvin, Mo and Pape) we had to make too many adaptations to our line up and our rotations.

Also, the game against Utah was a indeed a heart breaker BUT:

- Mo and Marvin were not yet able to contribute at normal levels, so were not at full force.

- We were damn close from winning the game (if Al had not choked at the FT lie we would have been in a good situation to pull out the win).

- Utah won 5 come from behind matches in a row: they are tearing it.

vava74

November 15th, 2010
5:53 am

The biggest issue about the Hawks right now is that we need to DUMP JAMAL ASAP.

We have a problem at the PG spot with Bibby being Bibby and with Jamal being the first guy off the bench.

Bibby has trouble defending most PGs but even so, when he is on the floor, we are usually playing well and within the new offense.

The minute Jamal gets in, the offense stalls and the whole game play gets wacky, including on D.

Yesterday Jamal came in hotter than during the past few games, but as the game went on, he went cold (as it is usual in him) and his contribution on both ends of the floor were almost null.

Teague must come in to relieve Bibby and not Jamal since he brings good defensive effort (if not yet consistent D production) AND is much more of a creator keeping teammates involved.

Until he is traded, Jamal should be used exclusively to spell JJ for 15 minutes – at the best – with orders to do his thing against the opposing reserves. AND NOT MORE THAN THAT.

vava74

November 15th, 2010
5:55 am

And by the way:

MO and Teague were +11 on the (+-) stat.

Not that you can rely on it blindly, but the fact is that Telfair and Gaines had trouble scoring and getting teammates involved with Teague hounding them on D.

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
7:30 am

blogman,

Why would Denver want Jamal when they already have JR Smith (who is rumored to be on the trade block)?

And the issue with trading for Carmelo is the Hawks might only get him for one year, because he does not want to play for the Hawks long term.

And even if Carmelo did want to play for the Hawks long term, he would require $20 mil a year. ASG cannot afford to give JJ $18 mil, Al $12 mil, and Carmelo $20 mil.

vava74

November 15th, 2010
8:23 am

Also,

The media darlings OKC with their superstar durantula and their PG for the future are 5-5.

So, it’s early to give up on these Hawks.

TheAntiMe

November 15th, 2010
8:25 am

Love said. “I got my shot blocked a couple times. They’re an extremely athletic team at every position.”

That’s for sure, there aren’t any fat guys out there playing for the Hawks just because they happen to be tall.

TheAntiMe

November 15th, 2010
8:29 am

Last!!! (Sorry, I couldn’t resist.)

terrell

November 15th, 2010
8:43 am

Obrien, they could afford him if they got ridof Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza. lol!

ILL-Logical

November 15th, 2010
8:55 am

MC. I have a question:
Why is it that ASA’s picture captions the story of the win last evening and Josh was voted outstanding player of the game by the Sports South broadcasting team but when ASA blew the Utah game by blowing 4 consecutive free throw opportunities,including the 2 that would have tied the game, Josh’s picture captioned the story ?

dukester

November 15th, 2010
9:05 am

I thought the trade for Teague with Sacremento sending Thompson was a good trade. It would have left a void at point guard but we need to do something.

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
9:14 am

Good win Hawks and thanks for admitting it’s about effort and fundamentals like rebounding! I do gripe alot, but at least I’m consistent in what I expect.

I still don’t see how a lazy, no D Carmelo is going to make us better? It just doesn’t make sense. We already have griping about not having enough balls to go around (literal and figurative) why add more to that problem? He’s not the answer. A professional work ethic is the real answer.

Props to Mo Evans for a great game. I bash you alot Mo, but you showed me exactly what this team needs more of yesterday: energy, heart and tenacity. Keep up the good work.

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
9:20 am

THIS TEAM PLAYED YESTERDAY LIKE IT PLAYED IN THE 4 GAME WINNING STREAK, BUT IT WAS AGAINST A FAR INFERIOR TEAM.

PLAY LIKE THIS EVERY GAME AND THIS TEAM WILL FINISH WITH AROUND 40 WINS, LOL!!!!!

WE NOW KNOW WE CAN’T BEAT ANY TEAM BETTER THAN MILWAUKEE AND WE CAN BEAT THE SCRUB TEAMS.

THIS COULD BE A ROUGH WEEK IF THIS TEAM DOES NOT START DEFENDING THE DAMN BASKETBALL

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
9:26 am

*4 game losing STREAK, MY BAD

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
9:31 am

THIS TEAM IS NOT BUILT TO COMPETE

IT HAS NOT BLOWN OUT ONE TEAM YET THIS SEASON. EVERY GAME COMES DOWN TO THE LAST FEW MINUTES BECAUSE OF THE COMPLACENY AND PAUCITY OF DEFENSE

FIRE SUND

Geemack

November 15th, 2010
9:36 am

Vava74

I don’t think people are wrong with their assessment of the Hawks.

The effort we are seeing night in and night out, is the same effort that got us sweep by Orlando and Cleveland.

It’s that same effort that allowed us to go 7 games in the first rd with the Bucks and Heat, 2 years in a row. These are teams that were clearly undermanned.

As fan we want to see the team improve over the last 3 years, but that has not happened.

The Hawks still don’t defend, hustle, grab rebounds, and execute the offense with any consistency.

MC said before Woody and L.D. preached great principles in practice, but the game execution is not consistent.

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
9:40 am

BOX OUT THE OPPOSING PLAYER

DAMNIT

FIRE SUND
FIRE DREW
FIRE ASG
FIRE WOODY

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
10:00 am

vava,

I’m not concerned about the fact that we are 7-4. What I dont like, is the way we have played.

But like you said, the season is still young. Miami is 6-4, OKC is 5-5, and Orlando is 6-3.

I think what the Hawks need is a player who enjoys playing defense. We dont have one. Josh is the closest one, but his thing is getting blocks, not necessarily playing great man defense.

Most of our players are all about offense, and with Jamal and Bibby, we will always have a problem.

I think Jamal should have been traded this past offseason, but I can understand Rick wanting to evaluate them for half a season.

However, at the trade deadline, we will have Jamal and Mo’s expiring contract, plus the $3.6 TPE we got from the Chills deal. If Rick is serious about us getting to the ECF at least, then I think he has to make a move.

J from the A

November 15th, 2010
10:06 am

This Hawks team is not built to compete? Compete with whom and for what?

Do you mean this Hawks team is not built to compete with 90% of the teams in the league?

That cannot be the case because the Hawks can compete with everyone in the league (and compete evenly or better against at least 80% of the teams).

Oh, you must mean this Hawks team is not built to compete for an NBA championship. Perhaps, you are right. It seems like they are close to being able to compete at this level but just can’t quite get there.

But instead of constantly complaining that the Hawks “cannot compete,” why can’t Hawk “fans” appreciate that the Hawks are an exciting team that will better (not just compete with!) 80% of the teams in the league?

I understand that some are of the mind that we shouldn’t settle for anything less than a championship-caliber team, but can’t we at least appreciate the very good team that we have?

I guess not. Either the Hawks compete for an NBA championship or they suck. There is no happy place in between with the NBA’s worst fans. smh

These Hawks are really good and deserve our praise. (Yes, they also deserve a bit of chiding, as even the great have room to improve, but they deserve much more praise than hate.)

GO HAWKS!

JM

November 15th, 2010
10:22 am

7-4 after the first 11 games and people are jumping off the wagon. Let’s be real people – with this ownership group the roster is most likely set. No need to fantasize about some other teams great player, who has actually one anything yet. LD needs to work on the defensive end, that’s where the team is weak.

Go Hawks!

JM

November 15th, 2010
10:24 am

* not won

Jim

November 15th, 2010
10:50 am

The Hawks as currently constructed are a good team that will never be an elite team. You either need 1 or 2 superstars plus a couple of good players or 4-5 really good players (like the Pistons of years past), JJ is NOT a superstar and the point guard position is not adequate at this point. Add to this Marvin Williams playing like he is asleep half the time and I just don”t see Hawks going any farther this year. However, since Atl. was dumb enough to give JJ max money they don’t have a lot of options. Therefore, stick with what you have and play Teague enough to find out if he can run the team. Maybe they can trade Crawford down the road for an asset of some sort. Horford was a good move.

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
11:03 am

Jeff Teague for Jason Thompson??? I wouldn’t either.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Hawks-say-no-to-Kings-Thompson?urn=nba-285602

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
11:18 am

Anyone that thinks Jeff the bust Teague is a more valuable NBA piece than Jason Thompson is a fool.

Geemack

November 15th, 2010
11:33 am

J from the A

I don’t think Atlanta have the worst fans ,because they expect their team to get better.

How exciting is to watch your team lose by 40 point at home to the Magic?

Oh I guess great fans would have cheered regardless of the efforts of the team?

The fans of the Hawks are not disappointed in the Hawks being a good team. We are disappointed because they don’t show any consistent effort.

When Boston came to town in 08, and we knew we had no chance of winning that series.

The fans cheered like crazy because, when the Hawks left the floor, you knew they gave
everything they had, but got beat by the better team.

I can’t say that Cleveland or Orlando was the better team the last 2 seasons in the playoffs, because the Hawks didn’t compete enough to come to that conclusion.

We’re not asking for a championship tomorrow, but we are asking the Hawks to give an all out effort every night, and get to the Eastern Conference Finals.

That’s further than they’ve ever been.

dap01

November 15th, 2010
11:37 am

Pape should not be mentioned as a 3 string anything. He was 3 string on a french team.

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
11:43 am

superiorblogman,

So let’s see. That’s me, the Kings GM, and the Hawks GM. We’re all fools.

I’m sure Jason Thompson is more valuable than Teague, I just think that Teague has a lot of upside at PG, and that makes him more valuable to a team w/ a solid frontcourt and question marks at the PG position (see Hawks & Kings (Tyreke Evans is more of a 2 than a 1)).

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
11:47 am

Geemack said it best 11:33 AM. Great Post!

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
11:47 am

Someone needs to write an article on how well Al Horford is playing.

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
11:49 am

“But instead of constantly complaining that the Hawks “cannot compete,” why can’t Hawk “fans” appreciate that the Hawks are an exciting team that will better (not just compete with!) 80% of the teams in the league?”

Fans like you are the reason Atlanta teams never win !@#$

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
11:50 am

Where the hell would Jason Thompson fit in here? We have like 8 6″10 average bigs

Wow did Sund actually do something smart?

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
11:51 am

11 games in, Horford has the highest PER in the Eastern Conference at 27.13. He’s second only to Chris Paul in the entire NBA.

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
11:52 am

Amen JeJe: BOX OUT THE OPPOSING PLAYER! How hard is that to remember?

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
11:55 am

Geemack, great post at 11:33 except for this: “can’t say that Cleveland or Orlando was the better team the last 2 seasons in the playoffs, because the Hawks didn’t compete enough to come to that conclusion.”

Orlando was a far deeper and better coached team than us. Effort is a major factor in the equation of how good a team is.

What if the Lakers show no effort at and lose the next 60 games despite having the best roster in the league? Are they still the best team?

No.

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
11:57 am

JeJe – With Etan and Twin basically being set out to pasture we might could use another PF/C to keep them company in their suits on the end of the bench.

Seems like we need a boost in PG play to me. Not to bash Teague, but he’s going to take some time. Wouldn’t be harmful to have 2 younger options available after Bibby’s contract ends. Thus far Bibby has been a valuable assett. When he leaves the game you can tell a difference in the flow of the offense. Is that Teague’s fault or more JC1 dominating the ball?

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
12:02 pm

Jamal doesn’t really look to score anymore. Mo played well yesterday, but he is still a bit hurt and we all know he does nothing 90 % of the time statistically.

HOW IS THIS TEAM GOING TO COMPETE WHEN 2 OF ITS 3 MAIN GUARDS ARE ATROCIOUS, HORRENDOUS, AND AWFUL DEFENDERS (BIBBY AND JAMAL)?

SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION AND HUMOUR ME

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
12:03 pm

JAMAL DOES TEND TO POST UP AT HALF COURT LOL. HE JUST NEEDS TO LOOK TO SCORE EVERY TIME. DON’T DEFER TO FREAKING MO EVANS OR JOSH POWELL.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
12:05 pm

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
11:43 am

superiorblogman,

So let’s see. That’s me, the Kings GM, and the Hawks GM. We’re all fools.

I’m sure Jason Thompson is more valuable than Teague, I just think that Teague has a lot of upside at PG, and that makes him more valuable to a team w/ a solid frontcourt and question marks at the PG position (see Hawks & Kings (Tyreke Evans is more of a 2 than a 1)).

Who are these solid frontcourt members? We have 2 solid bigs that’s Al and Josh. There are no other solid bigs worthy of playing time on a playoff team on this roster. On the other hand, We have atleast 3 backcourt players who are worthy of some sort of playing time on a playoff team. I don’t get how ignorant you guys are to basketball. Rick Sund is one of the worst GM’s for a reason. I bet the Jerry West of the world are laughing after reading that Sund would turn down such. Sund, the ASG, and the ignorant fans of Atlanta deserve each other. I have met some ignorant people since being on this blog.

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
12:07 pm

THIS TEAM HAS PLAYED AT THE SAME LEVEL ALL YEAR. WE JUST HAPPENED TO HAVE PLAYED MORE CRAPPY TEAMS THAN GOOD TEAMS – THAT’S WHY WE HAVE A WINNING RECORD.

THIS IS THE SAME TEAM AS LAST YEAR WITH A SLIGHTLY BETTER BENCH. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS OUR DEFENSE IS WORSE, OFFENSE IS SLIGHTLY BETTER, AND DREW RUNS SEXIER ROTATIONS – NO HOMO.

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
12:12 pm

Jeje,

They won’t. This team is a decent defensive-point-guard-who-can-run-the-offense away from having a realistic shot at the Eastern Conference Finals. That’s why they won’t trade Teague for Jason Thompson. It’s not yet clear if he is, or is not that dude.

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
12:14 pm

superiorblogman,

I think you missed the point, figuratively and literally. But it’s ok, I’m not one to go back and forth all day.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
12:15 pm

Anyone bragging on Horford is missing something. The guy is only taking 11 shots a game. How can you have a guy scoring the ball with such ease and getting so few shots? That just shows how ineffective this offense is. Shooting damn near 65% and only taking 11 shots a game. That shows some major flaws and incompetence within the coaching of this team. No way I could rest until I see if he can shoot 65% with 15 shots a game then 20 shots a game and so on. I can remember growing up and watching how basketball is suppose to be played. The #1 rule of offense is feed the hot hand. None of that other BS motion everyone touch it. Larry Drew is a career backup and needs to go back to being one. What an incompetent little ugly MF’er, but you all deserve each other. Sund, the ASG, Drew, and the ignorant bloggers on this site

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
12:16 pm

CAN WE JUST DUMP SMOOVE AND BIBBY FOR A DEVIN HARRIS AND SOME OTHER PLAYERS? CAN WE PLEASE GET A REAL POINT GUARD? WE SHOULD’VE GONE AFTER DARREN COLLISON.

!@#$. JARRETT JACK IS BETTER THAN OUR GARBAGE POINT GUARDS.

STILL HAVE NOT SEEN TEAGUE MAKE A JUMPSHOT THIS SEASON

LOL. DUDE LOOKS LIKE HE’S PUSHING A 40LB BACKPACK OFF HIS CHEST WHEN HE SHOOTS

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
12:21 pm

Now I agree that picking up say Jarret Jack would be a big upgrade over Teague and if we could get Devin Harris without giving up Joe, Josh, Jordan, or Al I would do it without a thought.

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
12:22 pm

We’re ignorant b/c we don’t want yet another 6′10″ PF/C? Think about it?

Whether you like Teague or not we don’t need another “transition” center. We need a dominating Big or a PG for the future. I’d also be interested in SG help, but a PF/C again? Really, superiorblogman, really?

JoJo the Godfather

November 15th, 2010
12:34 pm

When asked about Mo Evans, LD said “I need more guys like that”. Is that a hint to Rick Sund that we need to shuffle the roster a bit?

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
12:36 pm

JoJo – he’s referencing Mo’s comments about the Hawks never moving forward because of a lack in consistent effort and dirty work. We need a shuffle in professionalism and mentality more than roster.

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
12:40 pm

I blame Rick Sund for this team’s maekup. This offseason, he had the chance to make some moves while still keeping the starting unit intact.

He could have signed another PG, he could have signed a legit backup SF and he couldve traded Jamal.

Instead, all he did was resign JJ and Collins, signed Josh Powell, and drafted Jordan.

I wonder if the Hawks would trade Josh Powell for Jason Thompson? Probably not, because they like Powell’s great locker room presence.

As for Teague vs Thompson, I would pass as well. At PF, Josh and Al both get minutes, so there is not much left over for Jason Thompson, and we’re already stuck with Powell.

At center, we’re already playing Collins, Al, and ZaZa, so once again, there isnt much room for Jason Thompson.

If Teague is traded, who becomes our backup PG? Does anybody really want Jamal playing more minutes at PG?

If Teague is to be traded, it needs to as part of a package for another PG.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
12:43 pm

Yes you are ignorant Fundamentals. Jason Thompson has more upside than Zaza, is already better than Zaza and cost less than Zaza. He is totally better than Powell, Collins, Thomas, and everything you have off the bench with maybe the exception of Jamal. The guy was the #12 pick in the draft, a lottery pick. Seriously, this just shows how ignorant you people are to even try to argue that this would be a bad trade. He is a upgrade over everyone of the Atlanta Hawks bench except maybe Jamal. He would be the 3rd best big on the team, with 3 lottery type talents as your bigs. Sund once again proves how totally stupid he is if this offer was made and he declined it. Teague is a bust, I would rather have Eric Maynor. Teague is the worse PG taking in 1st round last year.

JeJe

November 15th, 2010
1:01 pm

“He is a upgrade over everyone of the Atlanta Hawks bench except maybe Jamal. He would be the 3rd best big on the team, with 3 lottery type talents as your bigs. Sund once again proves how totally stupid he is if this offer was made and he declined it. Teague is a bust, I would rather have Eric Maynor. Teague is the worse PG taking in 1st round last year.

WE HAVE NO BACKUP PG IF WE TRADE TEAGUE.

DO U REALLY WANT BIBBY AND JAMAL PLAYING MORE MINUTES? THEY ARE GHASTLY DEFENDERS. LIKE O’BRIEN SAID, TRADE TEAGUE IN A PACKAGE FOR A BETTER PG

JARRETT JACK JARRETT JACK JARRETT JACK JARRETT JACK JARRETT JACK JARRETT JACK

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
1:11 pm

blogman,

There is no need for name-calling or classifications. This is a blog, where everyone is entitled to an opinion. There is not always a right or wrong answer.

If you trade Teague, who would be your backup PG?

Because although Teague has not taken advantage of the opportunities LD has given him, he is still our second best defensive guard behind JJ.

Do you really want to see Jamal (and his no-defense/free lancing self) playing more minutes at PG, where he has to guard opposing PGs, and help run the offense? No thank you.

And if my numbers are correct, Teague ($1.47 mil) for Jason Thompson ($2.2 mil) would not work financially under league rules. Hawks would have to throw in another piece. And I dont think our minimum wage veterans can be traded as yet.

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
1:11 pm

I guess so, but your master plan of excellnce leaves us with no one to run the point outside of Bibby and an abundance of PF/C on the bench who play lousy with limited roles.

What is your plan to move ZaZa, Collins, Powell and Etan since you think they’re worthless? I’m all ears, but your plan loads us up with more of the same and limits us somewhere else.

I’m a realist, not an expert blogger. Never claimed I was genius, but spell it out brother. Like you said…we’re all kinda slow here?

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
1:13 pm

O’Brien adds some real content to my frustrations with your plan. To you blogman? What say you?

JoJo the Godfather

November 15th, 2010
1:15 pm

If Jason Thompson is so good, then why does Sacramento want to trade him? Landry & Dalembert are both free agents at the end of the year. And why would they want Teague if he sucks so bad? They have 3 PG’s on the roster now, not including Evans. If Thompson is as good as you say, why would Sac. not build around Thompson at PF?

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:20 pm

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28goqkd

Mike Bibby, Zaza, and future pick

for

Devin Harris

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
1:24 pm

If you secured Harris for ZaZa and Bibby the Thompson deal might make sense, but none of that has come to fruition. Even if we got Harris there’d be alot of time needed to integrate the new players into the system and Harris would still be a defensive liability like Bibby is already. We’d still need PG, C and SF help. How does this fix anything?

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:25 pm

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27gunp6

Teague and Mo

for

Jason Thompson and Donte Greene

New roster

Devin Harris/Jamal
Joe/Jamal/Jordan
Marvin/Greene
Smith/Thompson/Powell
Horford/Thompson/Collins

L-QUE

November 15th, 2010
1:28 pm

TRADE JAMAL CRAWFORD -BIBBY-ZAZA for a facilitating point guard play COLLINS- THOMAS dont let the bench blow the lead before the starters come back in put a big man on the coaching staff to DEVELOP our big men DO NOT TRADE JOSH-AL or MARVIN this is the core for years to come ATLANTA is ready to compete now with a threating pointguard

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:29 pm

Fundamentals: How does anything you post fix anything? Devin Harris, Joe, Josh, and Al are all all-star caliber. 3 of the 4 have played in all-star games. Greene is a legit sized SF at 6″9 or maybe even taller so now you don’t have to worry about a 6″5 SG Mo Evans playing the position. Thompson is better than any backup big currently on the team. You have made the starting lineup more potent and added quality young depth. If that’s not making things better I don’t know what better is.

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
1:31 pm

Alot of your plan hinges on Greene being an effective defender/rebounder at SF b/c he can’t shoot. Also uses Jamal heavily. We’d still need PG help in your new roster?

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
1:34 pm

I like the younger, faster talent, yes…but if they’re so good why do #1 the Nets stink and #2 Thompson is falling out of favor in Sac town?

The biggest problem is how are you going to convince ASG to get any of these deals done?

The real deal is how do we get ASG to actually enter the tax threshold to really get us solutions, not bandaids.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:36 pm

Fundamentals: You must ride the short bus? Donte Greene shot 37% from 3pt range last year. As for your whining about PG help Jamal and Jordan can handle that better than Teague because Teague is a pure bust. He is the worst PG selected in the 1st round last year to date and that is fact

Section 303

November 15th, 2010
1:37 pm

Does anyone ever tire of posting about trades that will likely never happen? Dispite what the Trade Machine says, willing to bet not one of these deals gets done.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:40 pm

None of my suggestions put the ASG into luxury range.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
1:41 pm

I’m less tired of posting trades than I am of watching a team that is going nowhere.

L-QUE

November 15th, 2010
1:47 pm

There are no quality big men other than HOWARD that will dominate agame with scoring pointguards they are contenders ATLANTA have shown no knowleged of how to draft a point JORDAN CRAWFORD needs to play he brings energy SY awaste for ateam looking to handle the HEAT BOSTON BUCKS we need a facilitater

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
1:48 pm

303 is another realist, none of this will ever happen.

Superiorblogman: proving yet again you’re not the nicest, b/c I actually do drive a short bus as part of my job, so yes I do ride in one. Does that really matter? Do you want a picture of it? What’s with the abuse? Just b/c I question your opinion you go that route?

If Greene, Thompson and Devin are just waiting the revolutionize the NBA why aren’t they doing it on their teams right now? If Teague is such a bust, why is SAC going to give up a lottery pick for him? How are you planning to get Sund & ASG to do even one deal?

I’ll admit I’d like to see more of Jordan. I think Teague still needs to improve. I still think we need improvement at C, SF and PG, but it won’t come without serious cash and a journey into the luxury tax.

If you haven’t noticed, that’s not going to happen.

Draft a fantasy league team. You’ll have more power there.

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
1:51 pm

SBM is slow – all my posts refer to the point that without biting the bullett and going in to the Tax we’ll never improve this team. Bigger budget = better options = better team = more wins = the teams we can’t seem to beat. It’s very simple. We’re not competing on a level playing field.

Either be a Hawks fan or deal with it buddy. We are what we are – a team with great potential on a serious budget.

vava74

November 15th, 2010
1:56 pm

We simply need to trade Jamal.

He is the sand in the mechanism.

He is like a drug, tantalizing and exciting but ultimately prejudicial.

You love the highs but much more often than not, you then wake up half naked in the street.

Jamal was horrible in all 3 our our first 3 defeats and against Utah he was a huge defensive liability and a non factor offensively towards the end of the game.

i_am_soulstar

November 15th, 2010
2:28 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Crawford gone before the trade deadline. The rookie’s got game.

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
2:42 pm

blogman,

Ramon had suggested a trade with Sacramento, and I will offer a variation of his trade idea.

Jamal and ZaZa for Dalembert, Jason Thomspon and Antoine Wright.

We get Antoine Wright as a backup SF to Marvin, so Mo Evans would be the backup SG behind JJ. This would also allow more minutes for Jordan at backup SG.

We also get Dalembert who is more athletic and a better rebounder than ZaZa, along with Jason Thompson. And we still get to keep Teague.

Sacramento gets rid of Jason Thompson (who is on the trading block), and they get ZaZa for the next 3 years for almost the price of what they are paying Dalembert now.

And Jamal would take some of the scoring pressure off Tyreke Evans in the backcourt.

I would do that deal…if it was available. But its easy for us to play armchair GM

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
2:47 pm

O’Brien
What’s up with Wright this season 1/4 his normal minutes, DUI, no stats?

Niremetal

November 15th, 2010
2:51 pm

I LOVE men! LOL!

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
2:54 pm

Another deal Najeh suggested, was Jamal to Portland for Pryzbilla and Rudy Fernandez. Thats another deal I would consider, but I dont see it happening.

As tempting as these deals are, they are very unlikely to happen until the trade deadline.

Bottomline is Hawks need to try harder, and play better. If they dont, then Rick needs to make a move at the trading deadline (or after December 15).

cp

November 15th, 2010
3:02 pm

Jarret Jack is available according to a rumor…… A guy that many on here wanted but I don’t know what Toronto would want for him.. We need better play from the pg position. Bibby started off hot but seems to be struggling now and Teague plays solid d but doesn’t score…….I understand why they turned down the Thompson deal because they would have no backup pg…I was against letting JC2 play the pg at the beginning of the season but now I just don’t think he would be any worse than what the guys we have give us now. I think he will be alright defensively and we all know he can pass and score.. I know LD is giving Teague a chance but dude really needs to step it up

Grandad

November 15th, 2010
4:08 pm

Ra’mon…..are you the same as Ramon?
If Jason Thompson was indeed offered to us,
and is in the “doghouse” as you say, then there
must be a reason they want to unload him.
You reckon?
-AND- Dalenbert is a longer leaner Rand-Mo who can block a shot.
-OR- a lower basketball IQ-ed Solomon Jones.
-OR- a skinny, higher priced cheeseburger not sold @ Stanford.

-Plus- You were kidding about the 1st round pick…Right?

Grandad

November 15th, 2010
4:11 pm

Jarrett Jack…..yeah…..he’s the answer!
*[please note the sarcasm]

cp – not directed @ you.

Astro Joe

November 15th, 2010
4:18 pm

It’s pretty clear the answer is to maintain the status quo or go out and trade for CP3, Kevin Durant & Dwight Howard. Anything else wouldn’t receive the needed electoral votes.

Miss Horford

November 15th, 2010
4:23 pm

Fundamentals…are you there?

Astro Joe

November 15th, 2010
4:24 pm

Paul Westphal benched his top 5 pick in foavor of Dalembert who has an expiring contract. He also has tried to use Jason Thompson at SF during most of the early season. But I guess because he is someone not name Mike Woodson, we won’t question the wisdom of Westphal as an NBA coach. After all, he has achieved so much success in his SacTown tenure that he is clearly beyond reproach. That’s okay, it will be very easy to trade one of our 7-14 roster players for another team’s 1-3 roster player. We just need Sund to pick-up the phone and we should be able to acquire Noah for Josh Powell.

lewis

November 15th, 2010
4:25 pm

It’s pretty clear the answer is to maintain the status quo or go out and trade for CP3, Kevin Durant & Dwight Howard. Anything else wouldn’t receive the needed electoral votes.

game, set, match.

Miss Horford

November 15th, 2010
4:29 pm

How would getting Dwight Howard do that much more good for us? Collins did really well against him…we have a big guy in him…He is a fan fav too because the fans at the games seemed to like what he did against Howard…

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
4:31 pm

Grandad, first Thompson makes half of what Zaza makes, and produces more then he does in comparable minutes, who is that not an upgrade when he still is on the upside of his career?

Second, all of the things you mentioned about Dalembert are so far from the truth. Did you not see Philadelphia only two seasons ago give Orlando the hardest time in the playoffs? And it was all centered around Dalembert’s play on D12. You say Dalembert is just a small upgrade from Collins and RandMo. That is funny because I never remember either of those two averaging a double double to go along with 1.5-2.0 rebounds per game. You talk about not having a high basketball IQ. Yet you’re the same one who’s mentioned AA, Yi, and other 4-5 players who can’t defend. The Hawks need more players who can defend, not who can score. Dalembert and Thompson would give the Hawks 2nd unit more offensive possessions just on their rebounding along, and presence on the defensive interior.

Why are so many people thinking about offense for the Hawks? Josh and Al could easily split 70% of the shot attempts that JC1 gets now, and their averages would go up. And the 30% that is left over would go to the OFFENSE actually been ran when the second unit is on the court. The offense will be ok. LD wants this team to be a running team. Well the running starts first with the defensive rebound, not with taking the ball out after a made basket. So you do what you can to strengthen your defense.

And for those calling for the trade of Bibby, think about this. While Bibby has his limitations, Bibby has not lost us a game this season. When the starters are on the court (including Bibby not Jamal), the team defense isn’t terrible. And our starters have been routinely outscoring the other teams’ starters all season so far. The biggest problem right now is getting more defensive pressure on the 2nd unit to sustain the leads they are given when the starters sit down. Right now, in my mind, LA is the only team in the NBA who starters can routinely beat our starters. I’m ok with Bibby keeping his job, and surrounding Teague on the second unit with more talent collectively, instead of having all of the eggs in Jamal’s streaky shooting.

Grandad, I wasn’t playing on the 1st round pick. If we’re going into a hard cap season and probably will be seeing part of the season lost to lockout, there will not be as much talent in this draft as years passed. And also with the 1st round pick in the mid 20s come a guaranteed $1 mil dollar price tag on a prospect. Answer this, who is the rookie on Boston? LAL? Orlando? Right now would you rather be spending $1-2 mil on a prospect (long shot prospect that far in the draft) or Matt Barnes?

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
4:43 pm

For those saying Dalembert has a low bball IQ, isnt that the same thing some people have said about Josh Smith?

I like Dalembert because he is athletic, has some potential, and is more of a presence in the paint than ZaZa. I dont know why Dalembert hasnt been able to put it together more consistently. But we know what we are going to get from ZaZa. And its not enough.

And I’m with Ramon. Although we would lose his offensive contributions, I think trading JC1 would be beneficial to the rest of the team, because defense would improve, there would be better shot selection, and the ball would be shared more.

Plus if we can get a legit backup SF somewhere, then Mo Evans and JC2 would handle the backup SG position.

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
4:44 pm

Grandad, also Dalembert averages 9 ppg and 10 rpg in only 30 mpg in the PLAYOFFS for his career, to go along with 2 blocks a game. And you mean to tell me that production coming off the bench wouldn’t help the Hawks in playoff basketball?

Grandad

November 15th, 2010
4:51 pm

I’ve been away for several days and have been unable to keep
up with the blog. I have not seen the last two games and have
only looked over the box scores, plus read MC’s write up.

I have been developing a theory, if you wish, from observation
of our 1st 10 or so games. Maybe a scouting report is less
pretentious than theory.

1st, one sidenote, for *Ken Strickland* for whom I have the utmost respect as a blogger/poster. I, more than most, understand the
concept that this is not fantasy basketball. even if it seems so,
many times with my trade proposals. Team, core, intangibles,
players who are warriors and winners mean more than stats.
Also, growing together, cohesiveness, longevity, maturation,
produces these benefits.

That said; I have just about had it with Joe.
He has been on a downhill slide with me for awhile.
Statements from Josh about what prompts his own anger;
not sharing, teammates not passing. Other statements
from whom (I can’t remember) “we dribble the shot clock
down and do not have enough time to run the play”.
These are Joe to whom they are directed.
One play in particular sticks out, ORL I think, Teague passes
to Joe, then proceeds to set a ball screen. Joe waves him off,
breaking down the play. Teague is now lost, Joe is double teamed,
and ends up with a skip pass across court as the shot clock
runs out. We talk about B-ball IQ on this board alot; seemingly
with Josh the culprit. Perhaps it’s time we examined Joe’s B-ball
accumen.

We know he’s selfish. He left a “TEAM” [PHX] so he could be the man.
He took all ASG’s money, while Al & Josh took discounts, when he could
have taken a little less for the greater good. ???

More to come.
I have the ability to change my mind.
I’ve come to this position, as a process over time,
not a snapfinger judgement. I will continue as a Hawks fan
as I’ve been for 50+ years and will also pull for Joe.
However, Josh and Al are our best players.
Basketball is the greatest game there is.

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
4:52 pm

O’Brien, exactly. Its all about changing a cancer (JC1 is becoming one) into a positive gain. And I also agree Mo Evans and JC2 would be good at the back up SG. Even if the deal I said before was just Jamal and Zaza for Thompson and Dalembert straight up. I’d do that deal in a second.

You have to be realistic about what’s available. The Hawks aren’t going to trade Teague. This is the second reported (Detroit being the first) incident in less than 2 weeks that the Hawks have declined trading Teague. So he’s not going any where. And no other franchise is going to accept Mike Bibby for a young, talented PG. Its not going to happen. So all you can do is turn your position of surplus (SG) in the position that you’re the weakest in play off basketball (the front court back ups). Guys have to remember in the play offs, when we’re bringing in Josh Powell and Zaza, Boston will be bringing Shaq, J O’Neal, and Glen Davis, Orlando will be bringing in Bass, Gortat, and Anderson. Our back up bigs can’t come close to competing with either of those benches as presently constructed. We’re losing the games in bench play!

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
4:54 pm

G’Dad, that’s a fair assessment on Joe’s play. Can’t argue there. But for his miscues on offense so far. He’s still our best perimeter defender.

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
5:04 pm

Here’s a question for you guys. When will ASG hold Sund accountable for the Hawks play? I mean if the Hawks were to get put out of the first round, would Sund return next season? In Gearon’s mind what is an acceptable for Sund? If Sund is putting pressure on LD to have the players perform. And LD is putting pressure on the players to perform. Is Gearon putting pressure on Sund to perform?

Fundamentals

November 15th, 2010
5:17 pm

I’m much more comfortable with Joel and Rudy from POR than the SAC town crowd. Jack would be a good backup, but where are the roster slots, we’ve got 15 folks?

Grandad

November 15th, 2010
5:17 pm

Ramon;
[written about SD pertaining his adaptability to the "Princeton"]
Sammy Dalembert can hardly shoot, much less pass, the basketball equivalent of a black hole—once you pass him the ball,
you’ll never get it back. [edited]

His contract is exp. -BUT- $12+ mil. seriously?
Garcia 5+ esc. for 3 yrs.????? really?

However, all in all, your points are well taken.

Are you Ra’mon?

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
5:27 pm

Grandad, Dalembert averages 53% from the field and 70% from the free throw line. That’s pretty decent shooting.

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
5:29 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=991

ATL Fawkers

November 15th, 2010
5:47 pm

HAWKS………

7-0 v/s scab teams
0-4 v/s playoff teams

How is this different than when Woody was here?

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
5:51 pm

Grandad,

Dalembert averages 8 points, 2 blocks and 8 rebounds per game in 26 minutes, for his career.

ZaZa averages 7 points, 5 rebounds and .38 blocks per game, in 20 minutes for his career.

And you dont think Dalembert would be an upgrade over ZaZa? I can understand not wanting to sign Dalembert to an expensive long term contract. But the guy is an expiring contract. If he doesnt work, we cut our losses, and we move on.

Do you think any team out thinks twice about ZaZa in the paint? Dalembert is a better rebounder, and a better shot blocker. And he is more athletic.

Maybe he is a black hole, but so is Jamal. And Dalembert wont handle the ball as much.

What do you think about a Jamal and ZaZa for Dalembert, Jason Thompson, and one of their 3 SFs?

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
5:54 pm

Once again, if the Hawks declined a trade that would send Jason Thompson who would be there 3rd best big man instantly, for Teague; who is currently there 4th best guard at best and not getting any better they once again prove why they are a garbage organization and deserve there garbage fans also, which include any ignorant blogger that thinks this is a good deal. I laugh when the ignorant MF’ers mention things like what would you then do with Zaza or how can we then get another PG. Are you telling Zaza is not good enough to bring back a PG who is just as good or better than Teague? Are you telling me that Jamal is not good enough to bring back a PG that is just as good or better than Teague? I laugh at you ignorant one track minded idiots. This is a trade that should have been done without a doubt by any professional GM looking at the big picture. A 6″11 guy with a rare skill set is much more valuable than a 6″1 guy with a lacking skill set. This is just a joke to me.

KevinM

November 15th, 2010
6:01 pm

Funny how Marvin still looks like Marvin under a new coach…all the talk about a renewed approach and being underutilized by Woody….

Truthfully, do you see a big difference in the bench coach?

What’s funny about all this trade talk is no one is discussing moving any of the starters…its about Teague….and there is no way you can move Teague…Bibby gets injured, you have no one from training camp who has run the offense. Sund is stuck with what he has unless he wants to unload one of our multi-PFs or multi-SGs..that might be the only excess this roster has.

Truly starting to see some of the same habits we have seen since this lineup was together…..I saw vava applaud Mo on a great game, but how many games does Mo step up a year? More or less than 5?

The entire roster has that same inconsistency about them…can you tell I’m tired of the same parts that aren’t as interchangeable as LD would like?

And make no mistake, Joe is our best player. He and Smoove and Al just need some major help. Our big 3 doesn’t equate to others top team’s big 3.

tyger

November 15th, 2010
6:21 pm

Hawks turn down Jason Thompson for Jeff Teague????

That must be a lie! I know the Hawks didn’t turn down a young 6′11 BIG for can’t shoot straight Jeff Teague. I just know that’s a lie. They obviously wanted Smoove or Horford, not Teague. Especially, when we have Bibby, Crawford1, Crawford2 to play backup, backup PG. I just know that’s not true. It cant be. I know its a lie, it has to be.

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
6:21 pm

KevinM: You say our big 3 does not equate to other teams big 3 which I agree but it’s not because of talent it’s because the coaches are allowing guys to play roles in which they are not built for or not getting the most out of guys.

#1 Josh does not need to be running the offense but finishing the offense. He turns the ball over too much to be initiating so much. Even the excitement has left the building with LD allowing Josh to handle the ball too much.

#2 Joe is a rhythm shooter. If you never played basketball a day in your life you will never understand that concept but what I am saying is that some guys rather you are at the park or gym or in a organized game need to do certain things before they shoot, and for Joe its dribble a couple of times. So, this motion of screen stuff does not work to Joe’s advantage.

#3 Al Horford is shooting 64% but getting fewer shots than Josh Smith who is shooting just 50%. It’s crazy that Paul Milsap is shooting over 60% also but Milsap plays for Utah and his coach would not stand for a guy shooting 60% and taking only 11 shots, he is taken 15 shots a game.

I have to say honestly the reason why our big 3 does not measure up to other playoff teams big 3 is because we have guys like Al playing out of position and the offense is not set up to highlight there strengths with the exception of Al who is not getting enough shots.

ant banks

November 15th, 2010
7:11 pm

WHERE ARE ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE CLAMORING FOR GARRET SILER LAST YEAR? JUS’ PROVES THAT MOST OF US DON’T KNOW ISH!! HE PLAYS FOR SUNS

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/garret_siler/

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
8:22 pm

ant banks: These guys will never admit to clamoring for such a piece of crap player because they are all Rick Sund clones. Keep your sanity by ignoring or disrespecting this inferior bloggers.

doc

November 15th, 2010
8:37 pm

dalembert didnt like the motion offense and was one of the players that got jordan fired and spoke out loud about his preferences. why do you think he will accept it more here? delembert eliminated himself from any trades here because of that.

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
9:06 pm

Grandad,

I disagree with your opinion that jj is selfish.

He left Phoenix because he wanted to be the man, be treated like the man, and be paid as the man. If he stayed in Phoenix he would have been third in the pecking order behind Nash and amare.

Plus Atlanta is closer to his Arkansas home.

As for his play here, I think woody is also to blame. And although I agree that jj can pass the ball earlier, and maybe even pass the ball more.

But the Guy still averaged 5 assists per game, and he has bought into LD’s system. Can he play better? Yes. But I don’t think he’s selfish.

Ra'mon

November 15th, 2010
9:07 pm

Doc, this was the statement Dalembert made. And this statement wouldn’t stop me from being interested in him, because its the same thing LD has said. Defense comes first.

“Forget the Princeton offense, we should have been focused on defense,” Dalembert said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5092747

Also, Dalembert would be coming in after the team has already learned the system. Compared to being there doing training camp and having to try to buy in from the beginning. I THINK (may be wrong) he could’ve been saying the reason they lost many games had more to do with defense than offense.

O'Brien

November 15th, 2010
10:16 pm

Doc,

Also, as a backup center, even if dalembert doesn’t buy in to the motion offense, least he is not a guard who handles the ball all the time like Jamal. And Jamal has not bought in.

And I think dalembert would be motivated and rejuvenated.

Ra'mon

November 15th, 2010
10:36 pm

O’Brien, right! Hard to buy into a system when you’re not winning. Besides as I said before Dalembert mainly stated the need to focus on defense more.

Also on Thompson, he is still young enough to have a huge upside on the defensive end. I don’t think its worth trading Teague for, but that’s because we don’t have another PG on the roster.

I just don’t know who else we could REALISTICALLY acquire with Jamal as the main trade asset that would improve us.

Section 303

November 15th, 2010
11:16 pm

Just finished watching Mavs/Hornets game. It was a good one! Former Hawks great, Jason Terry, hit the go ahead jumper for Mavs.

Can’t decide what I think of the Hornets. They are a good team, no doubt. But, would anyone really be that surprised if they got bounced in the first round? I wouldn’t be.

Paul, West, Ariza, Peja make a good group. Willie Green played well for them tonight, too.

Looking forward to Saturday’s game with Mavs already. Mavs remind me of a rec league team. As long as their jumpers are falling, they’re fine. They really do not attack the rim that much. Dirk never misses, so they do not really need to, I guess.

cp

November 15th, 2010
11:25 pm

Not Hawks related but Vick is putting on an absolute show against the Skins. It looks like Madden out there

lewis

November 15th, 2010
11:31 pm

is it just me or is JJ the same size as Al and Josh?

superiorblogman

November 15th, 2010
11:41 pm

Vick is Madden, that’s why he is so exciting to watch. It’s basically unfair, looks like he is skating out there.

Najeh Davenpoop

November 15th, 2010
11:42 pm

Too bad the Falcons never had an Andy Reid when Vick was here.

Or a DeSean Jackson.

Or a Jeremy Maclin.

Or a LeSean McCoy.

Or, for that matter, even a Mike Mularkey, Mike Smith, and Tom Dimitroff.

Najeh Davenpoop

November 16th, 2010
12:20 am

Apparently Tayshaun Prince got into a fight with his coach on the bench.

The asking price just keeps coming down…

Grandad

November 16th, 2010
12:34 am

O’Brien

My analysis of Joe has come over time.
Also, remember, I said I would be willing to change my mind.
My theory is just the way I’ve come to think of Joe; from the beginninig of last season to this point where we are currently.

Another item, remember my thoughts concerning Joe’s contract.

Which brings me to my other observation;
Joe picks and chooses to whom he will pass the ball.
Particularly an assist pass. I ask you; have you ever seen Joe
assist Jamal? I’m curious. I actually watch for this, since it
came to my attn and have not seen it since. Same for Zaza. @ least
Jamal plays like a lead guard and feeds the post.

Back to B-ball IQ, who’s the primary culprit for feeding Josh @ the
end of the shot clock with Josh standing out near the arc.

All these are observations made over time and are not conclusive.
Just one old man with too much time on his hands.

superiorblogman

November 16th, 2010
1:06 am

Scott: Horford is greater than Hibbert, bottomline, but I get your point.

MsDee

November 16th, 2010
1:21 am

Horford is WAYYY betta than Hibbert, but I get his point too!!

superiorblogman

November 16th, 2010
6:12 am

Prince is acting up in Detroit. Rumor is that he was on the phone with his agent after last nights game. Stuckey has had his run in’s also. I am not saying this can happen but I would welcome it.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=22ppcvc

Stuckey and Prince

for

Jamal Crawford and Teague

Don’t worry about resigning Prince and Stuckey right now see how it works out and if it is worth it because Jamal is not having a magic year and Teague is a bust.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
7:29 am

Superior, I would welcome that also. Re-signing Stuckey will be cheaper than Jamal. And he’s still young enough to improve annually. And just maybe Van Exel would do good with Stuckey compared to Teague.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
7:36 am

Come to think of it, Stuckey looks as if he would be a great back court mate to Joe. And I still believe Bibby has some production left.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
7:45 am

By the way, Stuckey is 6′5. That’d be close to the dream BK had years ago.

Stuckey-6′5
Joe-6′7
Marvin- 6′8 (Prince 6′9)
Josh- 6′9
Al – 6′10

Section 303

November 16th, 2010
8:07 am

Scott,

Hibbert = Horford? No. Horford way, way greater than Hibbert.

What’s with all the Pacer love anyways? You’re a fan of Danny Granger and a bunch of white guys on their way to the lottery?

bigdave

November 16th, 2010
9:38 am

lewis..

they’re all about the same height and build..

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
10:14 am

Prince makes about $500k more than Jamal. That may be a deal-breaker for the ASG. If we add a minimum wage earner (e.g. Etan, Powell or Colins), then that may be a deal-breaker for Detroit. But if there were a way to make the pieces work and we acquired Prince for Jamal (with some loose change added to even things out), that would be a huge upgrade for this team.

ILL-Logical

November 16th, 2010
10:23 am

*Playing poorly with the lead has been a problem for the Hawks, who are shooting 35.0 percent when ahead by 15 or more. Their opponents are hitting nearly 49 percent when facing that deficit*

This quote sums up what has been happening and tonight the answer to who and why may become clearer.

JeJe

November 16th, 2010
10:24 am

I’d do Jamal for Prince anyday if we could pry Stuckey in a deal from them. I bet that’d screw them over at PG though unless they really like Teague

JoJo the Godfather

November 16th, 2010
10:26 am

Salaries don’t match up on the Detroit trade above…Hawks would be taking on over $2MM in additional salaries, which means luxury tax…Would you throw Mo Evans in the deal?

O'Brien

November 16th, 2010
10:29 am

Hibbert has played really well this season (16 pts, 10 rebs, and 3 blocks per game), but this is his first really solid season. Lets see if he can sustain it for an entire season.

And lets not forget that Horford outplayed him last year. IMO, Horford > Hibbert any day of the week.

The Detroit trades I would consider: Jamal and Teague for Stuckey and Prince. I would also consider the Jamal and Teague for Prince and Will Bynum.

But I dont see Sund making any moves.

As for the game tonight, I would like to see Marvin (assuming he is healthy) take it upon himself to shut Granger down.

I think Bibby will have his hands full with Collison and TJ Ford, so Teague will need to step up tonight.

JeJe

November 16th, 2010
10:37 am

LOL taking on 500k is a dealbreaker for our 29 owners?

Can these idiots please just sell the team?

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
10:40 am

Jojo the added salary would be $1.7 million. And the team salary would still be under $70 million. That’s not luxury tax for the Hawks. That’s why they were still in pursuit of Dampier, because they had a little wiggle room.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
10:42 am

Ramon

November 15th, 2010
5:04 pm

Here’s a question for you guys. When will ASG hold Sund accountable for the Hawks play? I mean if the Hawks were to get put out of the first round, would Sund return next season? In Gearon’s mind what is an acceptable for Sund? If Sund is putting pressure on LD to have the players perform. And LD is putting pressure on the players to perform. Is Gearon putting pressure on Sund to perform?

drmaryb

November 16th, 2010
10:55 am

sund is not the problem, gearon is. it’s his money and he dont want to spend it!

Rev in Tampa

November 16th, 2010
11:00 am

I been really busy lately and not been able to read the blog posts. I’ve scanned enough, however, to see that some of the early enthusiasm has been shaken. I will not be free to enter into the discussion for the next couple of weeks so I wanted to make a couple of remarks now in order that I won’t seem like a fair-weather fan.

The Hawks are right where I expected them to be this early in the season. Actually a little bit better than where I expected them to be. And I am predicting that the Hawks make it to the Eastern Conference Championship game.

Bibby is playing better than expected on defense. His shot has been off for a couple of games. It will return.

Marvin was playing with intensity **heart** before he was injured.

The bench has performed a better than anybody expected. This is not saying much since few expected anything from them. It continues to be a weakness on this team.

Teague is still progressing. I wish his shot were more consistent, but his defense is a positive.

The Hawks have won on the road. This is an improvement over last year.

Coach Drew is still on a learning curve for finishing out close games. Otherwise he gets an A++ from me. The greatest issue on this team is CHARACTER. They like to coast when they get a big lead. Or they give up when they get behind by double-digits. Coach Drew understands this and has made it his priority. Will he be successful in coaching them out of this habit? I don’t know. But as a fan I am optimistic.

All this to say that I believe that the Hawks will go on a winning streak over the next couple of weeks (including wins over Dallas & Boston). But I am worried that I will make a reappearance on the blog and seem like a bandwagon rider. COUNT ME **ALL IN** FOR THE HAWKS THIS SEASON.

Ken Strickland

November 16th, 2010
11:01 am

The Atlanta Hawks have completed the 1st 11 gms of the season, which has included a 6gm winning streak and a 4gm losing streak. And despite all of the doubt, finger pointing, useless trade suggestions, and name calling from NEGATIVE MINDED GLASS HALF EMPTY DOUBTERS, what seems to be lost on them is the fact our Atlanta Hawks are only a half gm out of 1st place in their division, and are 3rd overall in the Eastern Conference.

Now that’s not bad for a team playing in an Eastern Conference that many feel is very much improved, and in a division with the much improved, much hyped, lock to win the NBA title, power house Miami Heat, and the Orlando Magic, whose dominated us the last 2yrs. And what makes it even more of an accomplishment is the fact we’ve been classified by so call experts, as well as arm chair experts, to be UNBALANCED, TOO SMALL, TOO SOFT, IN NEED OF A TRUE CENTER ETC.

Very few fans seem to see the Hawks getting better with more time and experience, but they have absolutely no problem seeing Miami getting better over time. Most of our fans feel the Celtics are a better team, even though they have yet to prove they’re capable of overcoming the advantages that allowed us to sweep them last yr. Considering the way we played the Magic in our 1st meeting, under circumstances that heavily favored them, I can see us splitting the season series with them. Wouldn’t that be an improvement?

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
11:12 am

Drmaryb, I could understand what you’re saying. But didn’t Gearon spend the money Sund requested to re-sign Bibby, Zaza, and Marvin for those overpriced amounts? Also didn’t Gearon grant Sund permission to trade for Jamal’s contract, that made him the 3rd highest player.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
11:16 am

Ken, I totally agree with you on where the Hawks are. However, I don’t see anyway the Hawks can improve with Jamal on the roster, unless he does a complete make over. Jamal limits so many things from happening that could possibly happen. He’s almost like a reenactment of Harrington and Antoine Walker all over again.

JoJo the Godfather

November 16th, 2010
11:17 am

Ramon, I had some different #’s…I had Teague at $1.5M compared to Stuckey at $2.8M, and Jamal at $10.1M compared to Prince at $11.1M (or somewhere along those lines)…I also thought we were closer to the cap than your #’s suggest, maybe because our veteran minimum deals include some sort of rebates from the league where their actual salaries are roughly $300,000 less than their salaries against the cap…I could very easily be wrong though…I usually just go by what hoopshype has for salaries, and its not always acurate.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
11:28 am

Jojo, you may be right. I only went by what Trade Machine had. But you may be right.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
11:31 am

Also Jojo, with part of the season gone, does it alter what is allow salary wise now for the luxury tax?

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
11:47 am

Strickland’s about-face is hilarious to me. Last season, the Hawks were 11-2. They were in 1st place in the SE division at the All-Star break and Strickland made sure that every post included a message that the coach was horrific at best. Now, any statement that suggests this current squad isn’t destined for greatness is categorized as a pessimistic view of the team. I guess it’s all in your perspective. For some, 7-4 this year apppears better than 11-2 last year.

JoJo the Godfather

November 16th, 2010
11:53 am

Ramon, I’m not sure how the team salaries are calculated. I just don’t see us taking on any more salary unless we’re getting one of the top 5 players in the league (not happening). This is also why I don’t see us using the Childress trade exception until next offseason just before it expires (in which case we’ll probably be in a lockout and get nothing).

Fundamentals

November 16th, 2010
11:59 am

I still keep saying we’ve got a great team and a good coach, but it’s all in giving a professional effort for 48 minutes every night.

Sure we could use pieces to improve the team, but overall it’s all about well, the Fundamentals of Basketball! We’re not good at it, and thus the lengthy heated blogs.

All I want is 100%, win or lose. Is that too much to ask? Based on their (Hawks players & coaches) comments this season, YES!

I’m just afraid a trade won’t fix the problem. Not sure anything can w/o a real serious team meeting where everyone honestly buys in for what’s best for the team.

Will that happen? Hasn’t in the ~ 30 years I’ve watched. You wonder why I’m not surprised.

Rev in Tampa

November 16th, 2010
12:06 pm

AJ, I wasn’t around the blog last year, but from your description it sounds as if Ken is anything BUT inconsistent. It sounds as if Ken stuck to his conviction that Woody was the problem even when the Hawks were 11-2. He was proven right in the playoffs.

And, at the risk of putting words in Ken’s mouth, Ken is not concerned about where the Hawks will be at the All-Star break, but how they will perform in the playoffs.

How can you charaterize this as an ‘about-face’?

JoJo the Godfather

November 16th, 2010
12:09 pm

To me, the best way to change the attitude & effort on the team would be to trade Jamal for a veteran, defensive minded SF that still has some game left…A player looking to make a run in the playoffs, and that will push a guy like Marvin…Guys like Josh Powell, Joe Smith, Ethan Thomas, etc…have the effort, but not the skills to back it up.

Fundamentals

November 16th, 2010
12:18 pm

Rev, folks will do anything to push their point. I don’t agree with Ken all the time, but I agree with your diagnosis.

JoJo – Who is out there to replace Jamal? Prince keeps coming up on the blog alot? Carmello is out with the defensive minded SF.

I’ve like Powell thus far. Can’t say the same for Etan, but he hasn’t really gotten a chance. Collins is what he is. What do you expect for the minimum? This ain’t TJ Max! To have a chance to win it all we’ve got to pay the price. ASG & Sund won’t do that.

JoJo the Godfather

November 16th, 2010
12:24 pm

The best fit for what I’ve described is Shane Battier.

Section 303

November 16th, 2010
12:28 pm

Jo Jo The Godfather, Shane Battier is one of my favorite players. I could create a 12-man team of my favorite players, he would be one of my first picks. The guy is a great defender, teammate, and plays hard all the time (which means the Hawks players would look at him funny).

Kenny Smith once called Battier a “bulldog” on TNT. That word fits him perfectly.

Fundamentals

November 16th, 2010
12:30 pm

What is the availability of Battier? I’d agree he’s that kind of guy.

JeJe

November 16th, 2010
12:58 pm

LOL Ken Strickland. We lost THREE GAMES IN A ROW ON OUR HOME FLOOR. Cleveland lost 2 freaking home games all year 2 seasons ago. We have not beaten one GOOD team yet. Be real.

LOL @ Section 303 wanting Shane Battier. I actually thought you were a smart poster. Shane Battier? Dude brings nothing to the team besides solid defense. He costs the same amount as Marvin and IS ALWAYS HURT

Sautee

November 16th, 2010
1:09 pm

Ramon,

The way the Hawks are is the way Gearon WANTS them to be. Sund is a puppet, yes man, who does the bidding of Mikey, even when he disagrees. I don’t see this changing unless we bottom out. All of this talk about “firing Sund” among bloggers is a joke. Gearon is pulling the strings.

And unfortunately, there’s no way to fire an owner.

Clyde

November 16th, 2010
1:27 pm

I like that Jamal and Teague for Prince and Stucky trade O’brien.

Ramon

November 16th, 2010
1:36 pm

Sautee, you may be right. I’ve been trying to figure out was that the approach. Or was Gearon giving all the trust to Sund with his experience. And Sund just hasn’t been making any moves. Neither of the two really have a great history of building championship programs, so who knows lol.

Clyde, I would do that trade today and never wonder what if with Teague. Even if Teague grows to become an all star, still.

superiorblogman

November 16th, 2010
2:16 pm

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2wmpt4b

Teague, Jamal, and Mo
for
Prince, Stuckey, and Summers

You guys were right the Teague and Crawford for Prince and Stuckey puts us into luxury by a little bit but what was that $3 million cash we sold that pick for? We could use that to pay the luxury which would be less than $2 million. On the other hand, the above trade keeps us out of luxury and I would still do it.

lewis

November 16th, 2010
2:23 pm

i think there’s some stupid rule that doesn’t allow use to use that 3 mill to go over the luxury tax?

Astro Joe

November 16th, 2010
2:40 pm

Rev., each fan has a perspective on this team. And it doesn’t make anyone less of a fan if their view is different than another’s. Was Strickland less of a fan because he didn’t enjoy the regular season? Would anyone be less of a fan if they groaned about the current regular season now? One could view this year’s team and conclude that other than more offensive movement, nothing has changed. Players are still talking about poor effort, players still bump heads with each other and the coach, the coach is still barking at the young PG, Marvin is still lost on offense, Joe still is prone to dribbling exhibitions, Jamal still plays mostly in isolation, Josh still isn’t taking most of his shots from the painted area, our rookie guard can’t get on the court, we can’t handle dribble penetration, we get burned when we switch on defense, the bench can’t be trusted from game to game and our defense is still inconsistent. The biggest difference in the first 2 weeks of the respective seasons is that this year our offense looks better and last year we beat good teams. So if things are very, very comparable and last year it was okay to forecast an unsatisfying outcome, then why must we all drink happy-ade this year? Oh, because the guy on the sideline changed (even if the results haven’t)?

The Truth

November 16th, 2010
3:39 pm

AJ

That prospective explains why “The Truth” has been on auto-plot as of late. When the 80-20 perspective rule becomes apparent, no comment is required. That’s when 80% of the bloggers sings one song while the other 20% sings another. That extreme imbalance is self-explanatory and further explains the current state of affairs of the Hawks. However, having said that, it is still not enough samples to confirm a clear validation for the Hawks season. Perhaps the half-way point of 40-plus games will better size-up where the Hawks are going with this roster.

The only surprise I have observed at this point in the season is the unexpected sub-par performance of the “so-called” better eastern teams compared to the west. It is Déjà vu all over again as the western teams are better than the east. At this point, the hyped acquisitions this off-season have not panned out. If misery loves company, than the Hawks should be having a ball right now. But again, maybe this will all change at the halfway mark. Perhaps the real crème will rise to the top.

O'Brien

November 16th, 2010
3:49 pm

“I still keep saying we’ve got a great team and a good coach…” Fundamentals .

I disagree. IMO, we have a good (not great) team, and it is too early to tell if LD is a good coach or not.

I think he is on his way to being a good coach, but he is still a rookie, and he is still learning. But he is saying all the right things, and making the effort to address all the issues.

Guys,

The ASG spends money (even if it’s not Boston, Orlando and Lakers type money). The problem is, when they do spend it, they don’t necessarily spend it wisely.

Ken,

I haven’t given up on this team, and I think they will get to the second round and win at least 2 games, while being very competitive.

But it is frustrating to keep hearing the same excuses (from the players) that we heard last year and the year before.

Fundamentals

November 16th, 2010
3:57 pm

So O’Brien, what if we do win 2 games in the 2nd round? Will fans see that as improvement? Will it be a success? Where are we setting the bar? Some bloggers say on the title, while Sund and ASG say 50 wins and the 2nd round? Seems our team meets the expectations of Sund & ASG and slacks off IMHO.

I say LD is good b/c he’s trying to do and say the right things. He’s doing his job and he’s doing it well. If the players don’t respond is that on LD or on the players?

Superiorblogman – I like this trade better. Stuckey gives solid PG help, he’s young and has decent size. Prince can motivate and teach Marvin how to play SF at the Championship level. Summers a prospect.

Rev in Tampa

November 16th, 2010
4:05 pm

AJ, I never intended to question your commitment as a fan. In fact, I don’t think that came up in my post at all. I am sure your commitment to this team is actually higher than mine. Maybe that’s why it is easier for me to overlook the weaknesses of this team.

Furthermore, I did not mean to suggest that the regular season is unimportant, irrelevant, or unenjoyable. Neither did I assert that Ken did not enjoy the regular season. I am confused by your point.

However, I really enjoyed thinking through your points about this year’s current Hawks team. Very thought provoking.

So here are my thoughts in response…

Regarding the players still talking about poor effort – This is LD’s chief priority. He has made this his make/break emphasis. It is true that CHARACTER is still a problem with this team. I even commented on it earlier today (@11:00am). I personally believe this is a bad habit that will be broken with consistent discipline, extra running for the guilty parties in practice, and many hurt feelings. I believe that Powell and Thomas, as players, were specifically brought in to build a tougher mindset for this team. I believe Conners and Excel, as coaches, were brought in for this same purpose.

Regarding the players bumping heads with each other and the coach – All teams experience this to some extent. This is not an issue.

Regarding the coach barking at the young PG – LD has encouraged Teague very appropriately, but is also has high expectations for him. Woody’s approach and LD’s approach to coaching young PG’s are not even close to being similar.

Regarding Marvin – Marvin looked good before he was hurt. He is playing with heart. Needs to improve his 3pt pct a few points, but is contributing on offense.

Regarding Joe’s dribbling exhibitions – Point well taken. I believe LD will break this habit with time. Usually takes six weeks to learn a new habit – IF Joe wants to break the habit.

Regarding Jamal – Trade him.

Regarding Josh not taking most of his shots in the paint – I agree that Josh needs to take most of his shots closer to the rim, but he is making more from the outside. Josh needs to listen to LD rather than keep taking those outside shots.

Regarding JC2 not getting on the court – He would if he earns the time. AJ, do you want him on the court if he is not ready?

I could go on… but my point is that I believe this team WILL be different from last year’s team even if the same bad habits are showing up from time to time this season. Eleven games into the season is too early to declare that this will be the same team come playoff time (but in keeping my eye on the goal doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy or the regular season).

Fundamentals

November 16th, 2010
4:15 pm

Amen Rev, give LD till Feb to see how his team will respond. At that trade deadline is when I’d make decisions. He’s trying to change a mentality that was there for 6 years. It won’t happen overnight. He’s got a few new faces, but overall it’s going to be hard to change the “core” overnight. In time he’ll progress. Give him that.

When will the players tire of the same excuses? Possibly never, but yes that hinges on character.

lewis

November 16th, 2010
4:31 pm

Hawks are the only team in league history to win first 6 then lose 4 straight, and they’ve done it twice in the last 3 seasons. What does that say?

Fundamentals

November 16th, 2010
4:45 pm

Lewis – lack of focus and professional effort every night.

Samuel

November 16th, 2010
5:25 pm

Rev,
“Extra running for the guilty parties in practice”. Dude, are you serious. Get a grip man, this is the NBA not high school. You are seriously out of touch with reality.

Ken Strickland

November 16th, 2010
6:05 pm

RAMON-We can win with Jamal. LDrew just has to know when to utililize his OFF skills while minimizing his DEF liabilities. He can’t do like Woodson did last yr and play him regardless of the situation, or if he’s hurting us defensively and producing little offensively. Say we’re playing the Heat, and LDrew decides to play zone like Doc Rivers did. In a zone, or a limited switching DEF that involves the guards only, he can be very effective without being a total DEF liability.

ASTRO JOE-there you go again, trying to fuel the fire by attributing bogus comments to me. I gave Woodson credit whenever I felt he did a good job, and he did an excellent job of using his bench and letting the team run during that streak. I did make my concerns known about whether he would allow the team to continue playing uptempo once we hit a dry spell. As we all now know, the team did hit a dry spell, and he slowed everything down and reverted back to playing WOODY BALL.

I waited 3yrs for Woodson to evolve as a HC in conjunction with his players and team, but he seemed to have bottomed out after taking the Celtics to 7gms in 07. He didn’t have a clue about how to prepare his team or himself for playoff caliber competition, and that’s why he was let go. That why his players became so frustrated and quit on him. I understand the difficulties LDrew has in trying to change the culture,while trying to overcome the biased attititudes, bad habits, sense of entitlement, and/or uneven treatment, that was allowed to take place over the last 6yrs.

I look at both the gm against Orlando, and the way the team has performed so far, in making my judgement about the teams and LDrews future. In Orlando, on the 2nd night of a back to back, he had the Hawks focused and ready, and they took Orlando to the wire. This was the same Orlando Magic team that totally embarrassed us during last yrs preseason, regular season, and finished us off in record fashion during a 4gm playoff sweep. THAT’S CERTAINLY MORE PROGRESS THAN WE EVER GOT FROM THE HAWKS UNDER WOODSON WHEN PLAYING ORLANDO.

All this team needs to get to the next level is CONSISTENCY, which will come when LDrew’s system and expectations become 2nd nature to the players, and that 2nd nature will come with more time and experience.

superiorblogman

November 16th, 2010
6:36 pm

The Braves just made a move maybe the stupid Hawks will look at them and try to understand what it takes to stay consistent or get better

Indawin

November 18th, 2010
1:01 pm

I think yall are missing the point here. Its about winning a championship which starts with getting out of the second round. The Hawks have been swept embarrassingly the last years in the playoffs. And whats on the horizon this year: Shaquille O’neal, Jermaine O’neal, Kendrick Perkins, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, and the list goes on and on. You not going to get pass the elite teams with just Al and Josh at the 5 and 4. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Rick Sund is officially INSANE for passing up on Jason Thompson if this trade rumor is true.

Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 111, Timberwolves 105

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Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 111, Timberwolves 105

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