Atlanta Hawks: Suns 118, Hawks 114
Nash got the Hawks this time. (AP Photo)
– The Hawks are no longer undefeated but it shouldn’t be overlooked that they got down big but didn’t stay down against a team that causes them all kinds of matchup problems. “We didn’t give up,” J.J. said “We just can’t go out and start like that, especially in our house.”
– Marvin and Mo were in street clothes. Zaza and Twin might have as well have been in a game like this. If the playoffs are about matchups, then the Hawks saw the kind of team they don’t want to see in the postseason.
– The Suns have skilled wings all over the place and the Hawks, as presently constructed, don’t have any to spare. So L.D. felt like he had to use switches on defense to have a chance.
– “The thing that hurt us as far as the switches, we couldn’t match up the way we wanted to match up if you don’t have perimeters when they go small,” he said. “You have to go small along with them, especially when you play big and playing big is not effective. Tonight was a clear case how bad we needed a Marvin or a Mo so we could look at going a lot smaller and trying some other things defensively.”
– Drew abandoned the Twin lineup once it became clear the Suns were too fast. Josh Powell opened the second half at power forward but the game was too fast for him, too. Teague is fast enough for a game like this and was effective but he only played 17 minutes.
– Funny how Atlanta’s depth doesn’t look so great against a quality opponent like Phoenix. The Suns had a 46-19 edge in bench scoring and had 10 guys score at least six.
– Al has done a pretty good job when switched on Nash in the past. This time, though, Nash attacked the basket instead of settling for long, contested jumpers. Once he got Al thinking about that, he burned him with step-backs.
– “We have had some success with switching with Nash,” L.D. said. “Tonight he made some shots, which we knew chances are he was going to make some. We got a little complacent on a few of the Childress drives where that didn’t call for any help. We got sucked in and he kicked out to shooters. That’s failure to execute the gameplan.”
– Offensively, Al is suited for a game like this. Amazing line: 30 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks, 13 /16 FG, 4/5 FT, one turnover. “I don’t think anyone in the league works harder than Horford does on either end of the floor,” Suns coach Alvin Gentry said. “Whatever they signed him for, it’s a bargain. He’s a stud.”
– Facing a high-powered offense for the first time, the Hawks appeared slow-footed on their rotations and unsure about their assignments in transition. Marvin and Mo would have helped check all those perimeter guys, but J.J. said: “It’s tough but no excuses. We are a better defensive team than that. Give them credit. They exploited what they thought were mismatches. They made a lot of tough shots down the stretch.”
– J.J. finally found his shooting stroke and used it often while scoring 34 points. He took eight of his 27 shots in the fourth quarter. But he again shared the wealth with six assists.
– J.J. on the missed drive with the Hawks down 114-112: “I think I had more guys guarding me than I expected. When I went up, three other guys went up with me and I really couldn’t see the rim. It was unfortunate, man. If i had to do it all over again, I’d probably do that play a little differently.”
– On the play before that, the Hawks were the victim of a switch when Bibby ended up on Channing Frye. His teammates sure were slow to help.
– The Hawks never got stops consistently but erupted for 38 points in the third quarter with Bibby and Jamal bombing away on 3-pointers. The Hawks don’t want outscoring opponents to be their identity but at least they know they are capable of doing it.
– Then again, the boxscore shows what’s become a common theme this season: The Hawks shot 54 percent yet found themselves in a tight game because something else went wrong. This time it was turnovers (14 for 23 Suns points). Other times it’s been rebounding. Usually it’s defense.
– Jamal was just 3 for 11 from the field but his seven points in the third quarter, including his second 4-point play in as many games, keyed Atlanta’s comeback. The Hawks needed more than 11 points from him, though.
– The fans booed Chills pretty good. I wasn’t around for that entire saga but people who were say they were surprised by the reception.
– L.D. rode the starters hard and now they have to turn around and play the Magic. It’s just one of 82 but not really.
– “We’ve just got to get a win,” Smoove said. “They have definitely had our number the last few times we have played them. Even the game we won we had to have a tip-in dunk. We just have to go out there and match their intensity. They play with a certain type of toughness, especially on the defensive end. I want to see where we are as a team with toughness.”
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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100 comments Add your comment
i_am_soulstar
November 8th, 2010
11:16 am
Hawks win this game if Marvin and Mo are healthy.
Sautee
November 8th, 2010
11:30 am
O’Brien,
Your “nimbers” on defense were very insightful. We MUST play better on D. Particularly the guards.
But we are NOT as bad defensively as truthspitter and Jeje would have you believe. Currently we are 11th in points allowed per game.
Of course that will likely change tonight.
dukester
November 8th, 2010
11:30 am
Check out these moves:
Signing of Marvin, ZaZa,Bibby
Signing of Pape SY
Signing of Jason Collins
Not signing Chills and trading him for cap relief and not using it.
This is why we will be a mid 50’s win team and out the door in the playoffs.
fan
November 8th, 2010
11:32 am
What is ISO?
JeJe
November 8th, 2010
11:57 am
“Jordan Crawford is a baller”
LOL vava. Wow you are clueless. Dude has done nothing at all to impress any of us the last 2 games besides banking in some wild jumpshot.
KevinM
November 8th, 2010
12:12 pm
Now, its on to a tough game after a game they should not have lost. To me, Phoenix is not a very good team.
What we have seen in switching defenses is what we will continue to see.
Does anyone see and differences on defense from what we have seen in recent years?
I just couldn’t believe Horford was on Nash time after time. If there are flaws with this team, it is their results on defense.
An excellent test tonight to see if the Hawks can ‘compete’ with the Magic’s 1-4 offense. If Howard hits his foul shots, it may get ugly early.
O'Brien
November 8th, 2010
12:18 pm
Sautee,
We are not that bad defensively. But keep in mind the teams we have played. Memphis, Philly, Minny, Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, and Phoenix. Except for Phoenix, the other teams are terrible. We’ll see how they look tonight against Orlando.
Najeh,
If the Hawks could have figured out a way to keep Marvin AND Chills, that would have done wonders for our team. SF would have actually been a position of strength.
JeJe
November 8th, 2010
12:43 pm
The only defense this team plays is Josh Smith’s shotblocking.
Other than that, we might as well just let the other team score every time. Oh wait, that’s what we already do
JeJe
November 8th, 2010
12:43 pm
We’ve given up 100+ points in 4 out of the first 7 games. Great coaching, LD!
clay
November 8th, 2010
1:04 pm
we were bound to loose at some point. Who even thought we would go 7 games before our 1st loss anyway. Its a great start. Now if we can find someway to get out of orlando with a “W” then people will start taking atlanta a little bit more legit, and so will the fans.
yodaddy
November 8th, 2010
1:23 pm
It’s not the defense on the ball it’s the rebounding.
Rebounding is the last part of defense and we are simply not doing that well enough. Teams are grabbing too many offensive boards so we may need the guards to help out on that. That means less outlets and more crashing the boards. Limiting second chance helps the defensive efficiency.
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2010
1:46 pm
It’s all about the trade-offs. The previous coach opted to crash the offensive boards, which led to better offensive efficiency but very poor transition defense because his players were at the rim and only 1 guy was left to defend a fast break. The current coach is preaching to get out and run, which means that when the opposition puts up a shot, some begin to leak out which allows the opposing team to grab more rebounds. It’s all a trade-off. It’s hard to say “we should run more, we’re built for speed” and then turn-around and groan about poor defensive rebounding. We have a smallish frontcourt, that is quick, agile and athletic. But we don’t want to switch-off too often (which allows for optimizing their quickness) but can they truly play man-to-man against guys who may have a few inches and a dozen pounds of muscle on our C/PF? That’s a trade-off. Bibby and Jamal can provide game-changing offense AND game-ruining defense. It’s yet another trade-off (because Marvin and/or Mo are inconsistent offensive threats). IMO, this roster requires the head coach to make too many trade-offs to be a true contender. The personnel is good enough to win up to a point, but then, there aren’t enough trade-offs that actually work toward a victory. But the regular season should still be plenty of fun.
Clyde
November 8th, 2010
1:48 pm
Stat of the day
Mike Bibby is 33rd in assists. He only has 27 assists the whole year. Rondo has 103. Smooth has 28.
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2010
2:00 pm
Stat of the Day Retort… Hawks are averaging 106 points and Boston at 99. Hawks are shooting over 50% and the Celtics are shooting less than 49%. The primary usefulness of assists are points and efficient scoring, Hawks win in both categories. Bibby is the starting PG of a better offense than the one that Rondo manages.
Clyde
November 8th, 2010
2:06 pm
Since defense is the subject for the day talk about protecting the paint. Our starting center is one of the worst. Yea he scored 30 points last night but he has only managed 5 blocks this whole year. It seems to me Horford only wants to play offense end. Its unexceptable.
Clyde
November 8th, 2010
2:08 pm
Astro Joe our power forward has more assists than our point guard. What’s wrong with that.
RaJaH
November 8th, 2010
2:30 pm
Clyde, what was Lopez’s stat for the game last night? I don’t think he went off on the offensive end.
Grandad
November 8th, 2010
2:30 pm
The beat writer was not there for the whole game,
yet gives critical analysis of the game.
To quote one of our own bloggers:
“hmmmmmm”
Now it’s time for nc to defend MC.
JeJe
November 8th, 2010
2:33 pm
Jamal + Teague for Prince + Bynum?
Interesting. If Tayshaun can be healthy all year (FA after the year) I do this trade and move DUck to 6th man. We lose scoring but get defense. I also want someone better than Bynum. We need a future franchise PG
sam'l
November 8th, 2010
2:47 pm
Hack a dwight…..that’s what all those unused players are for.
What I want to know is……who always schedules Orlando as the finale in a back to back series?
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2010
2:55 pm
Clyde, Pau Gasol probably has more assists than Derek Fisher. Come on man, you know that some offenses require a single person make all of the passes and other offenses are designed so that multiple players make assists. Plus, if you’re worried about offense, then isn’t points per game the only important stat?
Clyde, would you rather have the QB or RB with the most yards from scrimmage or the offense that scores the most points per game in football? Oh, I forgot, you’d rather have LSU’s defense.
nique
November 8th, 2010
3:00 pm
Defense was horrible last night. Also, where was that motion offense? It seemed like the same old story as last season. Not a lot of ball movement and that last “play” that they called for JJ (before the game was over) was Woody-esque. Horford could have scored 40 against the Suns last night – wouldn’t have minded him involved in that last play.
Section 303
November 8th, 2010
3:11 pm
I’ve been away from the blog a few days.
Wondering..was anyone really that surprised Childress was booed? I wasn’t. I like him. However, he did everything in his power to avoid coming back to the Hawks. He should take some heat when he comes back to Philips. It shouldn’t be a homecoming for him.
Good player. Seems like a great guy. But, being so anxious to not play here does warrent some booing.
Dept. of Unintended irony
November 8th, 2010
3:17 pm
“It seems to me Horford only wants to play offense end. Its unexceptable.”
Except for what?
Grandad
November 8th, 2010
3:19 pm
Observations by G-dad:
*[I watched the whole game on TV]
*(but I don’t get in for free)
(1) Josh did not have his best game,
but if he continues @ his present rate of development,
he will be a top ten player (in the league) by season’s end.
(2) Teaguer – If he keeps up his rate of progression,
we will have a nice young pg by play-off time.
(3) I love LD, but why did he have Bibby in on def that last pos.
Teague or Josh#12 for def purposes only. I’m picking @ nits because
LD will learn by experience just as the players will.
(4) If Joe’s a money player, then he has to take a money shot:
My meaning; he cannot come up with a lame;
“I really couldn’t see the rim. It was unfortunate, man.
If I had to do it all over again, I’d probably do that play a
little differently”
No excuses – you just missed the shot.
(5) Jamal’s a shooter, shooters shoot. Shooters miss sometimes.
If you [MC] are going to call out Jamal, then call out Joe,
the next time Joe goes 5 for whatever & say “we need more from him”.
(6) On that note, Jamal played the best defense Ive seen him play
since he’s been in Atl. Give the coaching staff credit. He seems
to be trying hard on def and in my opinion still wants to be here
and is playing for a contract.
(7) Lastly, Nash is an Assassin. Still an elite player.
Say what you want about all their wings, this & that,
Nash makes them go. Were he a Hawk…..a man can dream.
Sautee
November 8th, 2010
3:23 pm
Clyde said:
“Our starting center is one of the worst.”
Suns head coach Alvin Gentry said:
“I don’t think anyone in the league works harder than Horford does on either end of the floor,” Suns coach Alvin Gentry said. “Whatever they signed him for, it’s a bargain. He’s a stud.”
Who do YOU believe, Clyde, or Coach Gentry?
Sautee
November 8th, 2010
3:26 pm
I have been a wholehearted defender of LD so far. But last night, at the end of the game when we needed a steal on the inbounds play, Josh was on the bench. This makes NO sense to me to have a long, quick athlete of his caliber on the bench when you need a steal. It’s my first true criticism of LD. Did anybody else notice this?
And any notions as to why?
O'Brien
November 8th, 2010
3:27 pm
Derek Fisher has 13 assists this season. Carlos Arroyo and Mario Chalmers (the PGs for Miami) have 23 assists combined.
And what Clyde doesnt mention is the Hawks are third in assists per game this season at 24.3 assists per game (Boston is first at 26.9). So it doesnt matter where the assists are coming from.
AJ,
Good point about tradeoffs. But according to Rick Sund, the fact that we made it out of the second round and had a good regular season record against the other teams that made it out of the first round makes us elite.
JeJe,
I wouldnt mind seeing us make a run at Prince at the end of the year. Unfortunately, the Hawks probably wont have the money, and Prince probably wouldnt want to play behind Marvin.
Sautee
November 8th, 2010
3:40 pm
Grandad,
At LEAST Joe was taking responsibility. That seems to be a new development. It seems that he was at least aware that he could / should have moved the ball more. That’s a good thing.
Also, I agree about Jamal’s effort on D. He is truly trying harder than I’ve ever seen him. Too bad the results are about the same, but no doubt the effort is there. I also think he’s trying TOO hard on offense. he had a couple of bad turnovers trying to create for others when it just wasn’t there.
Melvin
November 8th, 2010
3:47 pm
Enter your comments here
Melvin
November 8th, 2010
3:48 pm
No Jameer tonight…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aj5kssFM9yC_xzPTxa7DbiC8vLYF?slug=ap-magic-nelsoninjured
Astro Joe
November 8th, 2010
3:58 pm
Melvin, thanks. We’re about to see the difference in team payroll. Duhon and Jason WIlliams as the 2 PGs replacing Jameer. How nice.
GeeMack
November 8th, 2010
3:58 pm
Thankfully the Hawks have a 3 gm home stand to get off this 2 game losing streak.
I think the Hawks biggest problem is their effort on defense. Offensively they are fine, but defensively they still play like a team full of 2nd and 3rd year players.
niremetal
November 8th, 2010
4:29 pm
Ah, Clyde, to whom Defense = Blocks + Steals.
On-ball defense? What’s that?
doc
November 8th, 2010
4:55 pm
Section 303
November 8th, 2010
3:11 pm
I’ve been away from the blog a few days.
Wondering..was anyone really that surprised Childress was booed? I wasn’t. I like him. However, he did everything in his power to avoid coming back to the Hawks. He should take some heat when he comes back to Philips. It shouldn’t be a homecoming for him.
Good player. Seems like a great guy. But, being so anxious to not play here does warrent some booing.
section 303, do you want to tell me how you came to this conclusion? how did he do everything in his power to not come here outside of playing for free dude? is that what you really think, a rfa needs to do just lay down and accept whatever the man wants to give him? the opposite is the hawks did nothing to sign him and gave him away for nothing. boo the ASKG.
MsDee
November 8th, 2010
5:00 pm
Great news that Nelson will not play but bad news that Carter will cause he usually KILLS us everytime we play him..even when he was with New Jersey.
Melvin
November 8th, 2010
5:11 pm
Could their be a Prince coming to Atlanta…
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/11/08/trade-chatter-still-bubbling/
Melvin
November 8th, 2010
5:24 pm
doc,
*Just fell of my couch* laughing at your 4:55 post. I have to co-sign. Reading MC blog, sounds as if JChill is implying that the ASKG didn’t put a valid effort into re-signing him…
J from the A
November 8th, 2010
5:42 pm
Sautee said
“I have been a wholehearted defender of LD so far. But last night, at the end of the game when we needed a steal on the inbounds play, Josh was on the bench. This makes NO sense to me to have a long, quick athlete of his caliber on the bench when you need a steal. It’s my first true criticism of LD. Did anybody else notice this?
And any notions as to why?”
Josh with 5 fouls is why. LD was playing the odds. If Josh was in the game, would there have been a greater chance for Josh to get a steal or for Josh to pick up his 6th foul? If we know anything about the game, we know the latter is more likely … still, though, maybe it would have been worth the chance.
The Truth
November 8th, 2010
5:46 pm
Regarding that Phoenix games:
Switching Defense + No Help Defense = Mismatch = No Defense at all
O'Brien
November 8th, 2010
5:47 pm
Clyde,
How is Sean Williams doing? Was he at the Alabama/LSU game on saturday?
AJ,
Agreed about the payroll. If Bibby goes down, we are forced to play Teague extended minutes, with our SGs playing some PG.
Orlando has Chris Duhon ($3.5 mil), and Jason Williams (vet minimum).
The deck is stacked against the Hawks, so if they can find a way to win this game, they will win the respect of the media. And a victory tonight would do wonders for LD and his system.
And mentally, there would be no stopping the Hawks. If they get blown out…I’m not sure how they will handle it.
doc
November 8th, 2010
6:06 pm
heh heh melvin is sekou stirring the pot or what? remember how he played it straight here on rumors?
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 8th, 2010
6:11 pm
There’s a new trade rumor being reported.
ATL sends Jamal Crawford & Jeff Teague to Detroit
Detroit sends Tayshaun Prince & Will Bynam to ATL
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69992/20101108/hawks_interested_in_prince/
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 8th, 2010
6:12 pm
My bad Melvin lol.
Section 303
November 8th, 2010
6:23 pm
doc, Childress did not leave here happy. And, most reports (Sekou’s pod cast, for one)said he would go back to Greece before coming back to Atlanta.
So, that’s fine. I don’t hate him. But, a Philips Arena crowd should not be falling all over themselves with hugs and kisses when Childress comes to town.
Childress felt slighted and left. I get it. Don’t fault him for it. Just don’t expect to be greeted like the Pope when you come back.
doc
November 8th, 2010
6:37 pm
booing shows little insight either 303, only ignorance.
i have followed it closely and would like the resource there 303 you are using about sekou’s podcast that said he wouldnt come back here. please post it, as i never saw it. it seemed, though he expressed his hurt in being slighted, he never burned any bridges. his interview on coming back suggested just this as well, using the” it’s a business” line and “no hard feelings” in referring to the action the askg took. now how did we let someone so good, go for so little?
O'Brien
November 8th, 2010
6:40 pm
If we trade Jamal for prince, who will be our bench scorer?
I wouldn’t mind will bynum as a third guard, but I’m not sure I would give teague up (so early) for him.
niremetal
November 8th, 2010
6:40 pm
Actually, doc hasn’t been following the whole story closely. Just the portions that fit in with his preconceived notions that Childress leaving was 100% ASG’s fault. It’s really quite impressive how you manage to put on blinders whenever information comes your way that’s inconvenient to your arguments, doc. You must show me where you buy your lenses.
Section 303
November 8th, 2010
6:44 pm
doc, Childress is a classy guy. So, no surprise that he would not rip ASG over contract issues. But, there is no doubt he felt slighted after the ‘08 playoffs.
You can get Sekou’s podcasts on i-tunes. They’re free. They talked about Childress this summer. The podcast where they talked about the possibility of Shaq coming to Atlanta.
By the way, the podcasts are good. I listen to them every week.
Section 303
November 8th, 2010
6:46 pm
And, if that trade rumor for Prince is true, I would love to have Prince here. But, I like Jamal a lot, too. Would hate to see him go. I enjoy watching him play. He might have the best ball handling ability that I have ever seen in person.