Atlanta Hawks: Drew faces ‘dilemma’ with Marvin and Mo out
Marvin Williams thinks he could return Sunday vs. the Suns. (Hyosub Shin / hshin@ajc.com)
Marvin is to get an MRI on his right knee today. He’s not making the trip to Minnesota. Neither is Mo (knee).
“It puts us in a little bit of a dilemma because both of our threes are out,” L.D. said.
Jamal (toe) will be on the team flight today but he’s questionable. Even if he plays, L.D. said he’s leaning against putting him in the starting lineup.
“Him off the bench just gives us such a weapon,” he said. ” If I don’t have to disrupt that, I don’t want to.”
So what are his options with the starting lineup?
“I am looking at different things. I am looking at Minnesota and because they have such a big lineup with Beasley, Milicic and Love, I may have to go bigger at the three. If Jamal is at the two, and Joe is at the three, then Joe has to guard Beasley, and I don’t want that.”
Translation: The likely starting lineup will be Bibby, Joe, Smoove, Al and Zaza. That’s how the Hawks finished last night against Detroit, and it worked. Josh will have to hound Beasley the same way he did Tayshaun because Beasley also is a crafty, natural scorer.
Marvin limped into the locker room today but sounded as if he didn’t expect the final prognosis would keep him out for a long time.
“I’m doing OK,” he said. “Still the same as last night. It’s really sore. I’m getting treatment the next couple days and hopefully shoot for Sunday. I’m young. I always heal fast.”
Jamal also said his injury felt the same today as yesterday. He’s not sure if he will play.
“It’s day-to-day,” he said. “It depends on how it feels when I wake up tomorrow.”
MC
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133 comments Add your comment
Leon
November 4th, 2010
2:23 pm
First
Leon
November 4th, 2010
2:24 pm
I have never been first before. Get well team, it’s a long season. GO HAWKS!!!!
allan in texas
November 4th, 2010
2:28 pm
Second?
allan in texas
November 4th, 2010
2:29 pm
Keep it going Hawks!!!!!!!!!!!
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 4th, 2010
2:31 pm
Good to Marvin will be ok. Get some rest kid, we’ll need you on Monday!
I’m really interested in seeing how Zaza will look starting alongside Al and Josh. Should be good!
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 4th, 2010
2:31 pm
*Good to hear*
GMCK
November 4th, 2010
2:36 pm
jamal crawford is the key to this season… having a player like that to come off the bench is awesome.
Swatguy
November 4th, 2010
2:45 pm
MC, what is the status of Pape Sy? Has he been released to work? If so, is he a consideration for minutes at the 3 or at least suit up?
Marcus
November 4th, 2010
2:50 pm
This will be an interesting lineup experiment. The bigger question is for the makeup of the 2nd team when the starters get rest. Might there be a J-Collins or Etan Thomas siting?
I think JJ or J-Smoove might have to be the iron men, with one or both playing extended minutes on the 2nd team to provide guidance and scoring. We can’t leave all the 2nd team point production load on J. Teague and Jo. Crawford.
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
2:57 pm
Hawks were the healthiest team in the NBA last year. And now, the injury bug is here. I hope we can find a way to overcome.
Its ironic that we’ve been clamoring for a legit backup SF for the last 2 years, and now both Marvin and Mo are out.
I hope their injuries will not keep them out past Sunday, because we will need them for Orlando, which is also a back to back.
I still dont know why we didnt sign a guy like Rodney Carney (who signed with the Warriors for the minimum).
Would ‘Nique suggest the signing of Damien Wilkins (is a 10 day contract possible), who is available right now.
Michael Cunningham
November 4th, 2010
2:59 pm
@Swatguy: “MC, what is the status of Pape Sy? Has he been released to work? If so, is he a consideration for minutes at the 3 or at least suit up?”
he has not been cleared. he did some light shooting after practice today. LD says he’s not suited for the 3.
yodaddy
November 4th, 2010
3:05 pm
Injuries are good (in a sense) because it gives the other players a chance to step up and gives the coach a chance to better know his personnel. Especially when these are (relatively) minor injuries. Let Etan and Jason Collins get in there with Joe Johnson and see what happens. Experiment with Josh at the 3 and Al at the 4. Win-win situation.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
3:06 pm
Good to hear on Marvin. I’m actually excited to hear about the test starting line-up going big. Use Etan and Collins alot the remainder of the week and see if Marvin and Crawford can come back Monday.
It’s not a big deal. Smoove & Beasely matched up all the time vs MIA. It’ll be a good time to prep Etan and Collins for Monday’s action. They’ll actually be ready this time instead of rusty like last year.
GeeMack
November 4th, 2010
3:08 pm
Al, Josh, JJ, Zaza, and Bibby should be the starting line up anyway.
tyger
November 4th, 2010
3:09 pm
Marvin’s the one on the block, they always get hurt to avoid trades.
Guido
November 4th, 2010
3:09 pm
MC Beasley is hurt he may not play. Hip contusion from the Miami game
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
3:11 pm
MC we don’t want this good news that we will get to see Al at PF and that we will get to see an encore from Josh at SF. We want to hear that Sund might trade Josh or underpay Al or overpay Joe. We want something we can complain about. Give us some red meat!
(Sarcasm, for any who might be confused)
Guido
November 4th, 2010
3:12 pm
I like Gee Mack’s lineup. You have 3 hustle players on the floor in Zaza Smith and Horford. Joe can focus on scoring and keeping his guy out of the paint.
Guido
November 4th, 2010
3:13 pm
I really want to see Jordan Crawford get more minutes
Ramon
November 4th, 2010
3:15 pm
I think Beasley will be out for the game tomorrow. I could see Powell getting a few minutes at sf also. I don’t think a line up of Teague, Bibby, Joe would be so bad going against the Timberwolves. My beliefs are if the Hawks come out and get out to a big early lead (similar to how they used to do Toronto), the game in the second half will be an up and down game.
I’m disappointed Marvin is hurt because I was really looking forward to Josh matching up with Love, lol.
Sky
November 4th, 2010
3:19 pm
I pray Marvins speedy recovery….and the other players as well. GO HAWKS!! Have an Awesome season!!!
Ramon
November 4th, 2010
3:20 pm
I’m confused, JC1 hurt his toe? But the last time we saw him come off the court he was mad that he was coming out of the game. Now the very next day, his toe is too hurt to play? Did he hurt his toe while the 3 reporters were running to Marvin’s locker to interview Marvin? Did one of them accidentally step on his foot? Did he get a pair of the narrow toe instead of the wide toe Stacy Adams? I think he can play if he wants to. I just think his pride may be a little hurt this week. The core players got extension and crunch playing time, and he only got a stumped toe. lol
Gwinnett Fred
November 4th, 2010
3:22 pm
Just thank goodness that our early season schedule is made up of a LOT of cupcakes.
We sure better be at or near 100% when we go to Orlando next week.
dukester
November 4th, 2010
3:25 pm
@Sky I pray Marvins speedy trade!!!
doc
November 4th, 2010
3:35 pm
MC now tell me why we got this pape sy guy, was it or overfill the one that was the strongest to fill out our weakest roster position? couldnt the money and time been spent better on a more traditional piece to add to the roster? have you asked LD why he was the man and what he is to do if he ever gets healthy? where does he project this guy anyway. if it was to be the two then why not stackhouse or similar ilk?
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
3:41 pm
I am thrilled to see Al at PF and Josh at SF for the Minnesota game. I think it will let us test run a different offensive set that THU, NOV 4, 2010 could use to mix things up.
However I do not want this lineup to become our mainstay for several reasons. First I think Al is not fleet of foot enough to excel at PF all the time. He is quicker and more mobile than most centers which gives him an advantage. Al’s 10 foot jumper is very effective against slow centers. Moving to PF fulltime neutralizes this advantage.
Also Josh is not enough of a consistent scorer to play SF. In certain instances however, like against the Timberwolves, he will thrive. Also moving Josh to SF moves him to the perimeter on defense. Who wants him away from the basket when the pg blows by Bibby?
dukester
November 4th, 2010
3:42 pm
@doc Tracy mcgrady would have perfect for that spot also. Veteran guy with something to prove. But all along i think this franchise has tried to protect the mistake of drafting marvin where they did. So they will never bring insomeone who could possibly challenge him. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and move on. We forgive you for drafting him but why resign him? And then they act like he is wanted and you could n’t trade marvin for a team mascot right now.
Let’s see how bad the clippers want to Baron Davis? I wonder could LD revive hihs career right now.
Let’s trade garbage for garbage with them.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2cghfh6
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
3:44 pm
Agh. Whenever I use the coach’s initials it automatically insert the date on my blackberry.
Fire Rodney Ho
November 4th, 2010
3:46 pm
Fire Rodney Ho please! Thank you!
ATL FAN
November 4th, 2010
3:50 pm
Love Marvin’s enthusiasm to play!! LETS GO HAWKS!!
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
3:58 pm
dukester,
I suggested TMac over the offseason for 2 reasons. First, he could play some SF if needed, and who knows, maybe we catch some lightning in a bottle.
And secondly, from a marketing perspective, the guy was almost voted to the all-star game last year. I think he still has some fans out there, and the Hawks would have been able to sell some TMac Hawks jersey, plus there might be even be more fans coming to the game (even if its the young ones).
Doc,
I think Sy also played some PG, so maybe LD sees him a potential guard combo next year, assuming Jamal leaves.
This off-season, we talked about Rodney Carney, Matt Barnes, Damien Wilkins etc. All guys who could fill the backup SF position, but for whatever reason, they have decided Mo is their backup SF.
BBgenie
November 4th, 2010
4:07 pm
This will be the Hawks best line-up. Just wait and watch. Big Al @ the 4 spot, can’t wait.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
4:11 pm
Still don’t like Mo as a SF, he’s a SG. Pape Sy is a project people. They’re hoping he’ll give us length and D at PG/SG and maybe some day SF. We all discussed that he might make the D-League interesting this year at best. Quit trying to make him an All-Star who’s holding us back. LD wanted him, give the guy what he wants and see what he can do with it. The real question is are we going to actually use Etan and Collins?
Collins has gotten sparse minutes thus far and Etan hasn’t seen any action. If they’re signed to help us go big, why not have them seasoned and ready for ORL on Monday? Why not use them last night when it was obvious we were outmuscled on the boards? What did Etan think of that? Could he have outworked DET for those OFF boards?
We just haven’t seen it. LD had a big hand in choosing our pieces. He wanted Sy, he wanted Collins and Etan. Now we’ll have to see how he uses them. It’s too early to really judge. Give the man some time.
Astro Joe
November 4th, 2010
4:15 pm
Beasley has always out-performed his season average when playing the Hawks, so I hope that he is out of the next game. More than likely, Johnson or Brewer will start at SF for the Wolves.
Pape Sy still hasn’t been cleared? I hope we kept the receipt for that imported purchase… it’s about time to send him back and get our money back. Who has the phone number for Trenton Hassell? Devean George? DerMarr Johnson (okay, that one was a joke).
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
4:25 pm
I thought DerMarr Johnson was going to make a comeback this year with Darius Miles?
VinnyD
November 4th, 2010
4:31 pm
Only if Glenn Robinson was still here…at least we can still turn to Boris Diaw.
Boris is gone? Fine then, Josh Childress time!!
Jesse Evans
November 4th, 2010
4:39 pm
37th!!!!!
truthspitter
November 4th, 2010
4:41 pm
I don’t like Josh, Al, and Zaza as our front court because Zaza does not play any type of defense at all, he offers absolutely no resistance at the rim. He got in KG’s face and people gave him a rep as a tough guy which he is not. He is really soft. We need to make a move. We still need to upgrade 3 positions. The PG, SF, and a bigger C.
Dept. of Unintended Irony
November 4th, 2010
4:43 pm
“Marvin’s the one on the block, they always get hurt to avoid trades.”
Yeah, we ALL saw Marvin asking Monroe to jump on top of him.
dunwoodyhawk
November 4th, 2010
4:52 pm
Any chance to ask the GM about the “Josh will be traded” rumors?
ant banks
November 4th, 2010
5:16 pm
FUNDAMENTALS AND VINNY D,
y’all are lame as hell.
mo’ evans waited until a few weeks before training camp to have his surgury. i never understood why they won’t have surgury as soon as the season ends. i think that favre did the same thing.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
5:18 pm
Monroe’s entire weight landed on that knee. Marvin isn’t doing as good as he’s hoping IMHO. I hope he can bounce back, but won’t be surprised if it takes some time.
Truthsplitter – this is a great opportunity for LD to show us what he can do with what he asked for = Collins & Etan while fullfilling his promise to try Smoove at the 3 and Al at the 4 some. If that trial fails then yes we are needing a definite upgrade in all 3 places, but it’d take the $20-30 million that other teams spend to do it. ASG won’t do that. Speak the truth buddy, bot just hopeless dreams.
ant banks
November 4th, 2010
5:18 pm
i am excited about our hawaii 5-0 start, but i am not impressed. i will see what we do with orlando, boston, and dallas. then i will be impressed. right now we are like boise st., we got a good record, but ain’t played no one.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
5:20 pm
ant banks = Why am I lame? I begged for them to dump Mo cause we have too many SG to get a real SF? How is that lame? I consistently state Mo isn’t a SF, he’s a SG and he won’t have a niche here? What’s the beef?
northcyde
November 4th, 2010
5:22 pm
Drew better be careful.
I personally don’t want JJ logging 40+ minutes for the 4th consecutive game. And especially against these scrub teams. If he’s playing 40 minutes a night against these teams, I guess he’ll have to play 45 minutes a night in these games coming up vs Phoenix, Orlando, Utah, Milwaukee, and Boston.
Don’t burn the dude out unnecessarily in the 2nd week of the dang season. And don’t be playing Jamal if his toe is really hurt. I would much rather lose him for 1 game, instead of 3 weeks.
Coach, you’ve been talking a good game and doing some good things so far this year. So now it’s time to see how you handle adversity.
If the former coach could start scrubs like Cedric Bozeman, Royal Ivey, and semi-scrubs like Salim and Shelden when the injury bug hit us in the past, surely Drew can at least prepare Powell, Teague, and Jordan to play 20+ minutes tonight, to prevent Horford, Smith, and especially JJ from logging 40+ minutes tonight.
If JJ has to play 43 minutes in order to win a game vs the T-Wolves, Ima be pizzed.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
5:23 pm
At least admit last year we would’ve given 2-3 of those 5 away.
AG
November 4th, 2010
5:55 pm
I guess everyone who wanted another center will be happy ZaZa will start. Really, he is having a good season. I believe for the Hawks to go further this season they had to change something.
truthspitter
November 4th, 2010
6:05 pm
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
5:18 pm
Monroe’s entire weight landed on that knee. Marvin isn’t doing as good as he’s hoping IMHO. I hope he can bounce back, but won’t be surprised if it takes some time.
Truthsplitter – this is a great opportunity for LD to show us what he can do with what he asked for = Collins & Etan while fullfilling his promise to try Smoove at the 3 and Al at the 4 some. If that trial fails then yes we are needing a definite upgrade in all 3 places, but it’d take the $20-30 million that other teams spend to do it. ASG won’t do that. Speak the truth buddy, bot just hopeless dreams.
Dude please don’t respond to me being that you are inferior
Dept. of Unintended Irony
November 4th, 2010
6:16 pm
“Dude please don’t respond to me being that you are inferior”
Translation: I’m so superior that I don’t need to make an entire sentence. My grammar is superior, also.
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
6:18 pm
“If JJ has to play 43 minutes in order to win a game vs the T-Wolves, Ima be pizzed.” northcyde .
Don’t be surprised if you are pizzed tomorrow night. The 5 teams the Hawks have beaten have a combined record of 5-17, but the Memphis game is the only game where the Hawks seemed to have it under control in the fourth quarter.
For some reason, so far this year, this team has played down to the level of the competition. So dont be surprised if it happens on Friday, especially now that Marvin and Mo Evans are probably out, and Jamal might be unable to go.
I like Al at center against most teams. But as much as ZaZa tries, we need a better defensive center to backup Al. ZaZa’s best defensive move is to foul you.
Sautee
November 4th, 2010
6:20 pm
northcyde,
You mean you’d rather LOSE the game than play Joe 43 minutes?
Dude, weren’t you the one DEFENDING Woody for playing Joe long minutes when he HAD to because our bench wasn’t producing?
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
6:24 pm
Here is an interesting stat. Josh Smith is 3-5 (60%) from behind the 3 point line.
Marvin Williams is 1-9 (11%) from behind the 3 point line.
So who is the better three point shooter? I thought Marvin worked on his 3 point shot a couple seasons ago?
northcyde
November 4th, 2010
6:30 pm
If Jamal and Marvin are out, I want to see a rotation of minutes that look similar to this:
( PG ): Bibby ( 20 ) – Teague ( 28 )
( G ): JJ ( 13 ) – Jordan ( 25 ) – Bibby ( 10 )
( F ): Smith ( 24 ) – JJ ( 24 )
( PF ): Horford ( 24 ) – Powell ( 11 ) – Smith ( 13 )
( C ): Zaza ( 25 ) – Horford ( 13 ) – Collins/Etan ( 10 )
******
Total minutes:
JJ – 37
Horford – 37
Smith – 37
Bibby – 30
Zaza – 25
Teague – 28
Jordan – 25
Powell – 11
Collins/Etan – 10
AG
November 4th, 2010
6:36 pm
Funny, last year our biggest complaint was the Hawks losing to cupcakes!
tyger
November 4th, 2010
6:54 pm
Black Power Poll
Week 10
1. Bethune
2. SCSU
3. Grambling
4. Albany St.
5. FVSU
6. FAMU
7. St. Augustine
8. Jackson St.
9. Tuskegee
10. Shaw
Full story: http://www.hbcuclassics.com
Fountain City Classic, November 6, 2010 – Undefeated Albany vs. FVSU decides SIAC
red man
November 4th, 2010
6:57 pm
Enter your comments here
red man
November 4th, 2010
6:58 pm
trade Zaza ja crawford bibby and 2 future first rounds for Melo
northcyde
November 4th, 2010
7:17 pm
Sautee . . I wouldn’t rather lose, but this will be JJ’s 4 consecutive 40+ minute game . . against a scrub team. I don’t want to wear JJ out in the process either. That’s been the fans’ complaints over the years right? Wearing JJ down during the season?
JJ doesn’t have the luxury to play at the slow pace we played at last year within the ISO system. And he can’t rest on defense, due to Drew’s demand to play man to man without the switching.
It’s one thing to play 43 minutes vs Boston or Miami. But Minnesota?
If he has to go 40+ minutes, that means that multiple people aren’t even close to stepping up and giving us quality minutes.
If Jamal can’t go, Drew has no choice but to take the reigns off of Jordan, and give him the green light on Friday night. He needs that green light to at least give JJ a chance to rest a little if Jordan is on.
b jones
November 4th, 2010
7:27 pm
Jordan showed some poise in his minutes last night with a pass first mentality. I think that should earn him a longer look.
Big Al
November 4th, 2010
7:36 pm
Is it just me… or does Marvin get himself hurt EVERY TIME he is really starting to come along??
He had that good game and was the leader scorer a few days ago. He has been really aggressive offensively and on the boards. But if he gets hurts every time he really goes hard… damn.
Ramon
November 4th, 2010
7:38 pm
Northcyde, I actually think LD could use Josh Powell at SF for 3-5 minute stretches at a time. A line up of Teague, JC2, Powell, Zaza, and Collins/Thomas may not be terrible. And should have a rebounding advantage.
Ramon
November 4th, 2010
7:39 pm
Big Al, you may be right. But I don’t a player in the NBA who wouldn’t be hurt if Greg Monroe came down on their head/back like Macho Man Randy Savage style. He got hurt on a hustle play, can’t argue with that.
cp
November 4th, 2010
7:54 pm
Yea O’Brien those guys you listed would have made sense but Sund stated that we were fine at the sf position. I have no idea why he thought that considering that Marvin is the only true sf we have. It will be interesting to see what LD does tomorrow. Luckily for us the Wolves are down right awful in every facet of the game.
Michael Cunningham
November 4th, 2010
8:32 pm
@doc: “MC now tell me why we got this pape sy guy, was it or overfill the one that was the strongest to fill out our weakest roster position? couldnt the money and time been spent better on a more traditional piece to add to the roster? have you asked LD why he was the man and what he is to do if he ever gets healthy? where does he project this guy anyway. if it was to be the two then why not stackhouse or similar ilk?”
lots of questions here but let me take a shot: they got Pape as a long-term project. they could have spent the money on a more traditional piece but they also have to develop young guys in case this “core” thing doesn’t work out. each time i ask LD about Pape, he doesn’t have any info. LD projects him to be a point guard but, again, i don’t think they are expecting much out of Pape this year (although i’ve got to think they would expect he can practice at least).
Michael Cunningham
November 4th, 2010
8:33 pm
@dunwoodyhawk: “Any chance to ask the GM about the “Josh will be traded” rumors?”
i’ll have something on this soon
RealSquawk
November 4th, 2010
8:39 pm
Josh Smith has not had success guarding Micheal Beasley. I am a little worried about this match up. I remember too many playoff instances when Beasley would just get him off balance and pull up for a shot or drive right by him.
Josh I worry, but I also know you can do it.
So lets go Hawks 6-0
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
8:53 pm
@-MC – “i’ll have something on this soon”
It better be, “there’s no story here. Only baseless rumors.”
Josh Smith is the core. Josh Smith is the personality of the team. Josh Smith is the Highlight Factory.
I don’t want Melo for Josh Smith. I’ll take Durant for Josh otherwise, no deal.
Sautee
November 4th, 2010
8:53 pm
northcyde,
I’m with you all the way about not overplaying Joe. That was one of my pet peeves with Woodson. I was just surprised at what seemed an about face of your attitude regarding this from last year.
I’ll say this: I AM impressed with LD’s rotations and how he seems to have imbued the bench players with confidence. So maybe against an outmanned T- wolves squad the bench will hold their own and JJ can play the 37 minutes you are looking for. Here’s hoping.
dap01
November 4th, 2010
9:00 pm
If Popyseed was such a long term prospect, why waste a 2nd round prospect on him. Simply sign him after he goes undrafted. Why not draft the 7 footer that was available, develop him and Popyseed.
Bama Brave
November 4th, 2010
9:33 pm
Atlanta has the poorest fan base in the world! Was watching the hawks last night and the place all most empty. then after the game josh smith was begging the fans to come and watch a team that has not LOST A GAME! now thats sad!!!!….
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
9:42 pm
Idiot Sund signed 20 bigs this offseason and DID NOT ADDRESS OUR NEED FOR A WING. EVEN MC SAID WE NEEDED A WING, BUT WE DID NOT GET ONE
RICK SUND IS A POMPOUS ARROGANT FAILURE
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
9:49 pm
Ok so…
Those Bulls that are supposed to leapfrog ATL in the East and be closer to the “elite” teams in the East…
Yeah, those Bulls are down 20 at home to the Knicks.
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
9:51 pm
I understand they’re without Boozer…
But, I find it hard to believe that the addition of Boozer will catapolt them to the top tier of the East.
And, truthfully, the addition of Boozer means what when they matchup with the Hawks?
Smoove and Horford abused Boozer last season.
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
9:52 pm
And, I agree that the Hawks should’ve sought and attempted to sign a wingman to backup Marvin. I know we’re without Mo at the moment as well, but even with Mo, the Hawks could use a better option to backup injury prone/inconsistent Marvin Williams.
MannyT
November 4th, 2010
9:58 pm
@Rev in Tampa
LD is blackberry speak for local date.
http://crackberry.com/blackberry-101-beginners-guide-keyboard-shortcuts
The Hawks chose to go into the season with the backup options at SF as your starting SG, PF, and an athletic backup SG. This is the way they chose to complete the roster. It wasn’t that hard to locate some min salary options to back up the 3. At some point these things can come back to haunt the team. Last season, we were lucky with limited games lost to injuries. I doubt we would be that lucky 2 years in a row.
I hope Marvin heals quickly. Josh might be able to cover 3s on D, but I don’t think we want him hanging out at the 3 pt line during most offensive plays.
@Bama Brave–we welcome you to join us whenever you can make it to the highlight factory.
One of the problems with the attendance visual was this idea of making one side of the arena “luxury” seats. They are proably paid for, but you don’t get the most engaged fans in the corporate “I got a hook up” seats. However, the luxury section isn’t a ring around the arena, but a complete wedge from bottom to top opposite the team benches. Makes it look less engaged than it should be. Then again, that was a Wed night game against a winless team. Probably not a big walk up demand.
Official attendance 13003.
Actual people in the place–much lower.
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
10:01 pm
dap01,
Good point about not drafting Pape Sy, and just signing him as an undrafted FA. But my guess is they didnt see anybody else that they liked at that spot.
“Teague, JC2, Powell, Zaza, and Collins/Thomas may not be terrible. And should have a rebounding advantage.” Ramon .
Sure, they might have a rebounding advantage. But who would score the basketball?
And as for playing Powell at SF, I know desperate times call for desperate measures. But I’m not sure if he is up to the challenge.
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
10:07 pm
Wabe – LOL. I just logged on to make the same comment. Maybe some will think the hawks will finished behind the knicks in the east
doc
November 4th, 2010
10:08 pm
mc, thanks.
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:14 pm
ANYTHING on Marvin???
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:20 pm
Nevermind http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iDbf5lDFP1HONwf4ZRzx-0o3k73A?docId=5035455.
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
10:22 pm
ESPN.com says Marvin has a bone bruise and claim that he’s day to day.
They went on to say they only expect Marvin to miss a game or so.
I think we’ll manage fine without Marvin against the T’Wolves.
Truth be told, it’d be a different story were we playing a more formidable opponent, but, the T’Wolves? Not sure what the panic is about…
I mean, I thought most here labeled Marvin the invisible man anyways. Will the Hawks really struggle that much minus him against one of the worst teams in the league?
I think they’ll manage.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5764351
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
10:24 pm
I think we’ll see a lot more of the Zaza, Horford, Smith frontline…
It was rather successful at the end of the Pistons game, and I’d expect LD to lean more to this minus Marvin.
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:29 pm
You know, the concerns that people are voicing about the bench really baffle me because the bench has been one of the strengths of this team all season. I’m starting to like Teague, he’s showing that he can attack. I’d wondered about that. Za Za has given a lot of energy off the bench. Powell has been a nice pickup. JC1 is, well, JC1. JC2 is just cutting his teeth. When Mo Evans get back he’ll give us some much needed perimeter defense. Collins and Etan may not be playing much, but Collins has shown that when he’s put out there, he can do the job. On the hole, I feel pretty good about Atlanta’s second unit…
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:30 pm
Thanks Wabe.
Ra'mon
November 4th, 2010
10:41 pm
O’Brien, I understand what you’re saying. I just don’t know if we will have any other option. I mean if Joe or Josh picks up two quick fouls in the first quarter, what’s the alternative?
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
10:44 pm
Great news on Marvin. Let him rest till Monday. That’s when we find out the real status of our team mentally. Win or lose we’ve got to put up a solid effort and stick to LD’s system.
The Truth
November 4th, 2010
10:44 pm
Michael Beasley is recovering from a left hip contusion and participated in the entire practice on Thursday
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
10:48 pm
MO IS TOO SHORT TO BE SF. HE’S 6″5
Evelyn
November 4th, 2010
10:59 pm
WaBe the bulls have the right to have a bad game, I’m a bulls fan I don’t worry to much about this team they start off every year since drose came like they’ll be fine I think that you and other hawks need to worry more about going out and supporting your team rather the bulls being part of the east elite teams.
yoursporthouse.com
November 4th, 2010
11:16 pm
Marvin is soooooo inconsistent, he can sit out. Crawford being injured would be a much worse loss.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 4th, 2010
11:35 pm
“Most likely, reserve 6-foot-11 center Zaza Pachulia will move into the starting lineup, with Al Horford moving to power forward and Josh Smith to small forward. Drew said he favors that lineup because Minnesota’s starting frontcourt features Michael Beasley (6-10), Kevin Love (6-10) and Darko Milicic (7-0).”
This is not good news for the Hawks if Smoove is matched on Beasley… he has already proven that he can’t guard Beasley one on one during his days in Miami, and now he’s just going to be floating around the perimeter that much more.
Hopefully the fact that the Timberwolves suck will compensate for this.
northcyde
November 4th, 2010
11:49 pm
That was my pipe dream rotaton. More than likely, this will be the rotation:
PG: Bibby ( 28 ) – Teague ( 20 )
G: JJ ( 32 ) – Jordan ( 10 ) – Bibby ( 6 )
F: Smith ( 36 ) – JJ ( 12 )
PF: Horford ( 24 ) – Powell ( 18 ) – Smith ( 6 )
C: Zaza ( 26 ) – Horford ( 16 ) – Collins/Etan ( 6 )
*******
Total minutes:
JJ – 44
Smith – 42
Horford – 40
Bibby – 34
Zaza – 26
Teague – 20
Powell – 18
Jordan – 10
Collins/Etan – 6
Big Ray
November 5th, 2010
12:06 am
I don’t like the idea of Smoove being on Beasley either, but it is what it is. This is how you win DPOY. This is how you earn a spot on the all-star team. By working hard at your areas of weakness.
Having said that, Smith need only make things hard for Beasley, not stop him altogether. I got on Josh for letting J.J. Hickson take it to him, but Hickson wasn’t going to lead the Cavs to victory. Likewise, neither will Beasley. He’s just not that type of player. If the T-Wolves win this game, it will be because we didn’t contain or stop the other guys.
I actually think Josh can give Beasley fits if he keeps his feet on the ground, keeps a hand in his face when he’s shooting, and doesn’t give Beasley space to take him off the dribble. Or….maybe I’m wrong and it just continues to be a bad matchup. Still, compare the other positions and see where this isn’t as big of an issue as we think:
Center – Milicic vs. Pachulia – man PLEASE…This stiff gets 3 points and 5 rebounds per game. And he is shooting an incredible 14% from the field. Yeah…. 14% . WTF? Zaza does more than that from the bench.
Power Forward – Love vs. Horford – Love’s stats are a tad better than Horford’s right now, but Horford is quicker and Love is no defender. Love is shooting 41% from the field.
Shooting Guard – Jamal vs. Wayne Ellington – Jamal can’t defend, but Ellington isn’t killing anybody and he won’t be stopping Jamal, either.
Point Guard – Bibby vs. Ridnour – Ridnour is quicker, but he won’t stop Bibby, either.
I’m not worried about Josh/Beasley. I may or may not like the results of such a matchup, but that ain’t a killer.
I’m more worried about overplaying starters and injured bench guys (Jamal). I say we win anyway, and let JC2/Teague play plenty of minutes.
Clyde
November 5th, 2010
12:40 am
Ken Norman > Mavin Williams
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
November 5th, 2010
4:14 am
Adversity makes men (Hopefully LD show what type of coach he will be) – prosperity makes monsters (Cavs clownin on the sidelines during the King James years)
Will LD be a ‘master of panic’ (Shaq coined that title last season when describing Magic Coach Van Gundy’s manic style) or a cool, calculated, sick-genius who plays the cards he has been dealt to perfection? The verdict is still out, of course, but we should see a glimpse tonight in Minnesota.
I am in agreement with northcyde that JJ, Horford and Smash should play under 40. Drew has done an decent job with rotations and keeping players fresh – with Marvin and Mo out and JC1 possibly holding out (lol) let’s see him divvy up the minutes and get efficient/effective results.
MsDee
November 5th, 2010
6:00 am
Wow Northcyde, u are being quite contradictory..U never question woody for killing JJ while only playing one position at SG but u want to say that LD needs to be careful not to burn him out?? WOW!! The difference between Woody’s strategy and LD’s is that Woody over worked him with all the ISO’s where he HAD to work hard for his shots whereas LD’s offense allows JJ’s shots to be very easy. Plus LD has NO BACKUP SF therefore JJ HAS to be 2 positions, with Woody, Joe only had 1 position but yet woody still found a way to burn him out!!
wordsmithtom
November 5th, 2010
7:01 am
Marvin out should give LD opportunity to go deeper in bench. Horf wants more time at 4; use him there. Josh wants to play outside; use Zaza at center and put Josh at the 3. Collins, Powell and Etan pick up the slack. No reason to wear JJ out. Maybe give JC2 some burn. Worse case: we lose the game. 82 game schedule, you’ll lose some. I don’t think we lose, however. Plus, we give bench players time to get ready for tough stretch ahead. We’ll need them against Orlando.
dukester
November 5th, 2010
7:26 am
It’s sad that we feel like we need Marvin to compete. What does that say about us?
O'Brien
November 5th, 2010
7:36 am
“I actually think Josh can give Beasley fits if he keeps his feet on the ground, keeps a hand in his face when he’s shooting, and doesn’t give Beasley space to take him off the dribble.” Big Ray .
What I think will happen, is Josh will give Beasley space to take jumpers (hopefully Beasley will be off, because Hickson and Darrell Arthur were not).
And there will be times when Josh lets Beasley go by, and goes for the block instead of making the extra effort needed to keep Beasley in front of him. I look for Josh to have 4 blocks.
One good thing about the injury bug early on is it allows LD to try some different things, which he probably wouldnt have done if everybody was healthy.
This seems like a game we lose last year too, but Hawks should win this game. Minny sucks, and all our guys are rested.
wordsmithtom,
You’re right. The Minny game is just 1 game. But the 1 game that really matters is the Orlando game. The Hawks cannot afford to get blown out by Orlando.
Hopefully, guys wont have to play extended minutes against Phoenix on Sunday, because Orlando is next.
KevinM
November 5th, 2010
9:10 am
Time the play the bench the next couple of games and test the depth that has been brought in here. Friday night could be a night of many diff combinations we will see from LD.
But JC1 has to quit sulking and just go out and play his game. He has to show that this team can’t go forward without him. The types of 4th quarter plays that he is known for………
Fundamentals, I agree on the Mo comments, but Mo isn’t getting any minutes if he isn’t Marvin’s backup.
Northcyde, I say this seriously………why are you here? You should be out there putting together a roster. You break a rotation down like any coach would. I think you should put some thought into it whether at the high school level or AAU circuit.
Finally, say Sund starts thinking, yes, Marvin needs to be moved. Then who are you going to depend on at the 3? Putting Smoove there IMO doesn’t help LD contain Smoove’s perimeter dreams.
Things are going well right now, but I just think the PG situation needs to be improved. But to neutralize ‘any’ team we play going forward, we need that on the court leader who has a motor.
Seriously, what would this team look like with any of one of the Top 10 PGs in the league?
Perhaps Teague can get more time tonight?
KevinM
November 5th, 2010
9:13 am
Just a couple of blips for tonight’s game:
Tuesday, Dec. 22 ‘09 at Minnesota L87-112
Wednesday, Feb. 24 ‘09 at Atlanta L92-98
The Hawks’ 25-point win last year at Target Center was their biggest
ever vs. Minnesota. Atlanta has beaten the Wolves eight straight times.
The streak should continue as Minn comes off their worse loss in franchise history to the Magic.
big sam
November 5th, 2010
9:22 am
MC have you herd anything on the hawks aquiring “C Melo”
vava74
November 5th, 2010
9:34 am
A vast majority of the bloggers around here spent the WHOLE FREAKING SUMMER asking for Sund to SIGN and DRAFT bigs.
Only a FEW pointed out that the roster was thin at the SF and PG spots.
THE SAME GUYS WHO WANTED SUND TO SIGN AND DRAFT BIGS ARE NOW SAYING THAT WE HAVE TOO MANY BIGS AND THAT SUND IS AN IDIOT BECAUSE WE DID NOT SIGN A BACKUP SF…
What a bunch of ….
Freshfromatl
November 5th, 2010
9:35 am
Big Sam,
It ain’t happening.
vava74
November 5th, 2010
9:38 am
KevinM:
“But JC1 has to quit sulking and just go out and play his game. He has to show that this team can’t go forward without him. The types of 4th quarter plays that he is known for………”
For the FREAKIN 1000th TIME: Jamal’s stats in the 4th Quarter last year were horrible.
Check http://www.82games.com//0910/CSORT11.HTM
Look at Jamal’s stats in the clutch: last 5 minutes of regulation and/or overtime.
Last year (and this year again) Jamal broke games open during the first 3 quarters.
The impression that he was a good 4th quarter performer is COMPLETELY OVERRATED due to the dagger against PHO. One shot in one game and there you have it: a complete miss conception.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2010
9:38 am
KevinM,
If I’m not mistaken, Josh had big games against Minny too, didnt he?
But I agree about PG play. If Teague can provide any kind of offense consistently (whether that be the floater or a jumper), and learn to stay with his man and not reach in or jump in, this team will be so much better.
ant banks
November 5th, 2010
9:41 am
man, larry drew played 10 yrs in the league, has been an assistant for 20 yrs…who designs his suits and when was the last time he bought a new one? omg. he has to be the worst dressed coach. lol. i love what he is doin’ with the hawks, though.
Nate ArchiBALL
November 5th, 2010
9:43 am
@ Clyde “Ken Norman > Marvin Williams” That’s a low blow. I’m not a Marvin fan but Ken Norman….Wow.
vava74
November 5th, 2010
9:47 am
a coat hanger > Clyde
doc
November 5th, 2010
10:12 am
vava74, most of us yelling for bigs were yelling for quality bigs to fill the roster. that box was not filled out by powell, collins or etan, thank you. maybe one quality big instead of two to three inferior ones would have left us plenty of room for another swing man.
also these same people like me, were not aware of the injury to mo that was apparent to the organization weeks before camp when the uninformed masses like bloggers became aware of the problem. that should have motivated the higher ups to reevaluate their objectives and what they could afford for an even greater and immediate pressing need. to leave yourself hanging on a guy coming back in two weeks from knee surgery was either stupid of the organization or the docs who said he would be back that soon. knees and surgery are too unpredictable. so umm, get off your high horse, as my dad used to say, please. the issue is greater than how you frame it this morning. the box to cover mo’s possible and potential absence was never filled either.
can i say i wanted chills for three years now and he could have filled that slot easily, along with two or three more slots that mo couldnt fill? talk about capability to play different positions, anywhere from 1 to 4 but still got no respect from rick sund?
Ted M
November 5th, 2010
10:24 am
Injuries aside they better pound Minn.
KevinM
November 5th, 2010
10:25 am
Vava, I don’t live here nor do I plan on reading everything that comes out. What you say about JC1 makes sense, but I still think he plays well in the 4th. If he didn’t, why would Woody or LD have him out there?
Relax, its just a blog, and its misconception….and him not on this roster does not make this team better.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2010
10:56 am
KevinM,
All vava is saying is that Jamal was not as productive in the fourth quarter as the perception may be, especially compared to his production earlier in the game.
However, we needed him on the court down the stretch in the fourth for various reasons including:
1) it makes defenders think twice about double teaming Joe
2) Marvin was a disappearing act
3) Unlike Marvin, Jamal can take guys off the dribble and score in a variety of ways, making him very good for Woody’s ISO offense.
Of course the team is much better with him on the roster. But I would like to see Marvin step up offensively so that he can play down the stretch in the fourth, because his defense is much better than Jamal, and LD wants us to win games with our defense.
ILL-Logical
November 5th, 2010
11:04 am
Have to wonder w/not Jamal playing politics with the BASG is wise or not? These guys have a set of favorites that includes Joe and Al. Period. Anyone else can and will be dealt with at their discretion.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2010
11:07 am
Doc,
Ever since Chills left, the Hawks have not brought in a legit backup SF.
Last year, Woody played Mo as the backup SF, and he struggled against a lot of bigger SFs, plus even his offense was off (I can’t forget his blown layup against Orlando in the playoffs).
But this year, even with a new HC, Sund once again decided not to sign another wing.
I think their reasoning is they figured JJ would play some backup minutes at SF, which would allow Jamal to still get his minutes at SG, so they would still have Jamal and JJ at the court at the same time.
doc
November 5th, 2010
11:11 am
marvin and the bloggers need to look at what fire he needs to bring to become a closer rather than our degrading or deciding if jamal isnt a finisher is my thought on it. what would it have looked like if jamal had not been there statistically and would the team have suffered more losses? isnt that more appropriate to discuss? let us focus on marvin, who seems comfortable in the role of not being the man. sorry, it is what it is. when chills was here marvin started and chills finished. who did we keep as the starter rather than the multi-dimensional cheaper guy who wore many hats? geez, why?
doc
November 5th, 2010
11:12 am
o’b just read your thoughts, once again and echo appears, mine this time.
O'Brien
November 5th, 2010
11:17 am
But I’m with you. Given Mo’s injury, and the fact that he is an expiring contract and better suited as a backup SG, why not sign another wing?
I think Rodney Carney or Chris Douglas Roberts would have been good minimum wage pickups. I would also have liked us to make a run at Matt Barnes.
I guess next year when Mo Evans leaves after his contract expires, they will be forced to bring in a backup SF then.
cp
November 5th, 2010
11:28 am
Did Jamal catch turf toe from walking to the bench in the 4th quarter? smh . I dont know if he is pouting or what but first it was his back now its his toe. Dude was moving around pretty well but as soon as he was removed he started pouting like a little kid. If this contract situation is going to cause him to do this whenever he feels like sitting out then go ahead and move him and get a sf in here.
Astro Joe
November 5th, 2010
11:39 am
I’d like to see Marvin rest that leg until Monday’s Orlando game… even if it means that we struggle against Phoenix Sunday evening. If Jamal is conducting some “leveraged negotioations” with this toe injury, he certainly has the team over the barrel with Marvin and Mo out. Ultimately, the Marvin injury may speak more to the big man depth of Zaza, Collins and Etan than anything else… as LD is forced to play those guys more. Al vs. Love will be fun to watch tonight… can Al defend on the perimeter? How about Sunday against Turkaglu? And potentially Monday against Rashard?
KP
November 5th, 2010
11:40 am
If you are going to try this lineup….tonight is definately the night. Will be interesting to see how Smoove plays at the 3 and Al at the 4. Go Hawks!!
dap01
November 5th, 2010
11:51 am
For those who suggest that Chills is the answer, look at his stats and consider his long term salary.
I look suspect that Jamal C. is being less that the ideal team player right now.
doc
November 5th, 2010
12:12 pm
dap, with bloggers there is no real answer.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 5th, 2010
1:25 pm
“I’d like to see Marvin rest that leg until Monday’s Orlando game… even if it means that we struggle against Phoenix Sunday evening.”
Phoenix is strong at SF between Turkoglu, Grant Hill, and Childress. The Hawks are going to need Marvin to help check those guys, because Joe Johnson will have his hands full with Jason Richardson on the perimeter. Smoove can help out on them to an extent, but Al is going to be occupied with putting a body on 7 foot tall Robin Lopez. I think the Hawks would have a hard time defeating Phoenix without Marvin.
And again, that’s more of an indictment of the way the roster is constructed than it is an endorsement of Marvin’s ability.
truthspitter
November 5th, 2010
1:27 pm
Jamal is doubtful meaning he is most likely out and Marvin is out, Mo is out. Beasley is questionable meaning it is atleast 50-50 that he plays. Seriously, the TWolves are a NBA team. They have to win sometimes and I think tonight will be a win for them. Darko atleast plays defense which I can’t say for Zaza. Love and Horford is a good matchup and Beasley could dominate Josh. Joe will have to carry this team tonight and they bench is garbage. Teague and Jordan are not ready, Powell is decent, Collins is not worth discussing and we have no type of backup SF to speak of. This is bad.
Astro Joe
November 5th, 2010
1:36 pm
Najeh, i agree, that’s why I suggested thatthey would struggle against Phoenix. But this team needs to be “all in” against Orlando much like they have been in the past against Boston. Since it’s a back-to-back situation, I’d rather try to win the 2nd game than risk bringing Marvin back early against the Suns.
One of the guys on the radio described Jamal’s toe injury as “contract toe”.
Gilley
November 5th, 2010
1:39 pm
I thought Josh handled Beasley pretty good for the most part. Beasley is a scorer so he will get his but for the most part Josh Smith didn’t allow Beasley to dominate or even score uncontrollably. I guess I must have amnesia if that is not the case. But we will be just fine.
darrell starks
November 5th, 2010
1:50 pm
With JAMAL, MARVIN, MOE, HURT.
STARTER BIBBY, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, ZAZA.
BENCH TEAGUE, JC2, POWEL, COLLINS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
November 5th, 2010
1:55 pm
WHEN THE HAWKS PLAY MAGIC
STARTER BIBBY, JOE, JOSH, HORFORD, COLLINS
BENCH TEAGUE, JAMAL, MARVIN, POWEL, ZAZA
RESERVE MOE, JC2
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
November 5th, 2010
2:04 pm
We all no that horford can’t handle howard but my opinion you always have match up size against him, COLLINS 7′0 VS HOWARD 6′11
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
darrell starks
November 5th, 2010
2:16 pm
ASTRO JOE I can’t see JC1 faking and injury for a contract the guy has to much pride 2 do so, plus he my second fav. player on the team behind josh, so i can’t see him disappointing the fans over a contract.
GO HAWKS!!!!!
Gilley
November 5th, 2010
2:23 pm
No one in the East can really handle Howard but we just can’t slow him down. Josh Smith checks him great and the best but he is too small and always gets fouled & causes a mismatch for Horford when he is guarding Rashard Lewis
Ken Strickland
November 5th, 2010
5:48 pm
SAUTEE-that statement about Jamal possibly hurting his toe pouting as he walked to the bench was cold, but sooo valid. My belief is as much as he wants a contract extension, he wants to stay in Atlanta just as much. Now that Horford has been extended, he’s probably upset that he still hasn’t been contacted by the ASG about his status, and I’m not certain the Hawks want to resign him.
At some point in the near futue, we’ll either trade him, or let him walk and replace him with JoCrawford. That will avail us of his services this yr, and get us some cap and salary relief if he walks. With JoCrawford already under a rookie contract, losing Jamal’s annual salary will be a 100% net gain. If we trade him at the trade deadline, it will likely be for someone with a short term or expiring contract.