Atlanta Hawks: Drew faces ‘dilemma’ with Marvin and Mo out
Marvin Williams thinks he could return Sunday vs. the Suns. (Hyosub Shin / hshin@ajc.com)
Marvin is to get an MRI on his right knee today. He’s not making the trip to Minnesota. Neither is Mo (knee).
“It puts us in a little bit of a dilemma because both of our threes are out,” L.D. said.
Jamal (toe) will be on the team flight today but he’s questionable. Even if he plays, L.D. said he’s leaning against putting him in the starting lineup.
“Him off the bench just gives us such a weapon,” he said. ” If I don’t have to disrupt that, I don’t want to.”
So what are his options with the starting lineup?
“I am looking at different things. I am looking at Minnesota and because they have such a big lineup with Beasley, Milicic and Love, I may have to go bigger at the three. If Jamal is at the two, and Joe is at the three, then Joe has to guard Beasley, and I don’t want that.”
Translation: The likely starting lineup will be Bibby, Joe, Smoove, Al and Zaza. That’s how the Hawks finished last night against Detroit, and it worked. Josh will have to hound Beasley the same way he did Tayshaun because Beasley also is a crafty, natural scorer.
Marvin limped into the locker room today but sounded as if he didn’t expect the final prognosis would keep him out for a long time.
“I’m doing OK,” he said. “Still the same as last night. It’s really sore. I’m getting treatment the next couple days and hopefully shoot for Sunday. I’m young. I always heal fast.”
Jamal also said his injury felt the same today as yesterday. He’s not sure if he will play.
“It’s day-to-day,” he said. “It depends on how it feels when I wake up tomorrow.”
MC
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133 comments Add your comment
Sautee
November 4th, 2010
6:20 pm
northcyde,
You mean you’d rather LOSE the game than play Joe 43 minutes?
Dude, weren’t you the one DEFENDING Woody for playing Joe long minutes when he HAD to because our bench wasn’t producing?
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
6:24 pm
Here is an interesting stat. Josh Smith is 3-5 (60%) from behind the 3 point line.
Marvin Williams is 1-9 (11%) from behind the 3 point line.
So who is the better three point shooter? I thought Marvin worked on his 3 point shot a couple seasons ago?
northcyde
November 4th, 2010
6:30 pm
If Jamal and Marvin are out, I want to see a rotation of minutes that look similar to this:
( PG ): Bibby ( 20 ) – Teague ( 28 )
( G ): JJ ( 13 ) – Jordan ( 25 ) – Bibby ( 10 )
( F ): Smith ( 24 ) – JJ ( 24 )
( PF ): Horford ( 24 ) – Powell ( 11 ) – Smith ( 13 )
( C ): Zaza ( 25 ) – Horford ( 13 ) – Collins/Etan ( 10 )
******
Total minutes:
JJ – 37
Horford – 37
Smith – 37
Bibby – 30
Zaza – 25
Teague – 28
Jordan – 25
Powell – 11
Collins/Etan – 10
AG
November 4th, 2010
6:36 pm
Funny, last year our biggest complaint was the Hawks losing to cupcakes!
tyger
November 4th, 2010
6:54 pm
Black Power Poll
Week 10
1. Bethune
2. SCSU
3. Grambling
4. Albany St.
5. FVSU
6. FAMU
7. St. Augustine
8. Jackson St.
9. Tuskegee
10. Shaw
Full story: http://www.hbcuclassics.com
Fountain City Classic, November 6, 2010 – Undefeated Albany vs. FVSU decides SIAC
red man
November 4th, 2010
6:57 pm
Enter your comments here
red man
November 4th, 2010
6:58 pm
trade Zaza ja crawford bibby and 2 future first rounds for Melo
northcyde
November 4th, 2010
7:17 pm
Sautee . . I wouldn’t rather lose, but this will be JJ’s 4 consecutive 40+ minute game . . against a scrub team. I don’t want to wear JJ out in the process either. That’s been the fans’ complaints over the years right? Wearing JJ down during the season?
JJ doesn’t have the luxury to play at the slow pace we played at last year within the ISO system. And he can’t rest on defense, due to Drew’s demand to play man to man without the switching.
It’s one thing to play 43 minutes vs Boston or Miami. But Minnesota?
If he has to go 40+ minutes, that means that multiple people aren’t even close to stepping up and giving us quality minutes.
If Jamal can’t go, Drew has no choice but to take the reigns off of Jordan, and give him the green light on Friday night. He needs that green light to at least give JJ a chance to rest a little if Jordan is on.
b jones
November 4th, 2010
7:27 pm
Jordan showed some poise in his minutes last night with a pass first mentality. I think that should earn him a longer look.
Big Al
November 4th, 2010
7:36 pm
Is it just me… or does Marvin get himself hurt EVERY TIME he is really starting to come along??
He had that good game and was the leader scorer a few days ago. He has been really aggressive offensively and on the boards. But if he gets hurts every time he really goes hard… damn.
Ramon
November 4th, 2010
7:38 pm
Northcyde, I actually think LD could use Josh Powell at SF for 3-5 minute stretches at a time. A line up of Teague, JC2, Powell, Zaza, and Collins/Thomas may not be terrible. And should have a rebounding advantage.
Ramon
November 4th, 2010
7:39 pm
Big Al, you may be right. But I don’t a player in the NBA who wouldn’t be hurt if Greg Monroe came down on their head/back like Macho Man Randy Savage style. He got hurt on a hustle play, can’t argue with that.
cp
November 4th, 2010
7:54 pm
Yea O’Brien those guys you listed would have made sense but Sund stated that we were fine at the sf position. I have no idea why he thought that considering that Marvin is the only true sf we have. It will be interesting to see what LD does tomorrow. Luckily for us the Wolves are down right awful in every facet of the game.
Michael Cunningham
November 4th, 2010
8:32 pm
@doc: “MC now tell me why we got this pape sy guy, was it or overfill the one that was the strongest to fill out our weakest roster position? couldnt the money and time been spent better on a more traditional piece to add to the roster? have you asked LD why he was the man and what he is to do if he ever gets healthy? where does he project this guy anyway. if it was to be the two then why not stackhouse or similar ilk?”
lots of questions here but let me take a shot: they got Pape as a long-term project. they could have spent the money on a more traditional piece but they also have to develop young guys in case this “core” thing doesn’t work out. each time i ask LD about Pape, he doesn’t have any info. LD projects him to be a point guard but, again, i don’t think they are expecting much out of Pape this year (although i’ve got to think they would expect he can practice at least).
Michael Cunningham
November 4th, 2010
8:33 pm
@dunwoodyhawk: “Any chance to ask the GM about the “Josh will be traded” rumors?”
i’ll have something on this soon
RealSquawk
November 4th, 2010
8:39 pm
Josh Smith has not had success guarding Micheal Beasley. I am a little worried about this match up. I remember too many playoff instances when Beasley would just get him off balance and pull up for a shot or drive right by him.
Josh I worry, but I also know you can do it.
So lets go Hawks 6-0
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
8:53 pm
@-MC – “i’ll have something on this soon”
It better be, “there’s no story here. Only baseless rumors.”
Josh Smith is the core. Josh Smith is the personality of the team. Josh Smith is the Highlight Factory.
I don’t want Melo for Josh Smith. I’ll take Durant for Josh otherwise, no deal.
Sautee
November 4th, 2010
8:53 pm
northcyde,
I’m with you all the way about not overplaying Joe. That was one of my pet peeves with Woodson. I was just surprised at what seemed an about face of your attitude regarding this from last year.
I’ll say this: I AM impressed with LD’s rotations and how he seems to have imbued the bench players with confidence. So maybe against an outmanned T- wolves squad the bench will hold their own and JJ can play the 37 minutes you are looking for. Here’s hoping.
dap01
November 4th, 2010
9:00 pm
If Popyseed was such a long term prospect, why waste a 2nd round prospect on him. Simply sign him after he goes undrafted. Why not draft the 7 footer that was available, develop him and Popyseed.
Bama Brave
November 4th, 2010
9:33 pm
Atlanta has the poorest fan base in the world! Was watching the hawks last night and the place all most empty. then after the game josh smith was begging the fans to come and watch a team that has not LOST A GAME! now thats sad!!!!….
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
9:42 pm
Idiot Sund signed 20 bigs this offseason and DID NOT ADDRESS OUR NEED FOR A WING. EVEN MC SAID WE NEEDED A WING, BUT WE DID NOT GET ONE
RICK SUND IS A POMPOUS ARROGANT FAILURE
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
9:49 pm
Ok so…
Those Bulls that are supposed to leapfrog ATL in the East and be closer to the “elite” teams in the East…
Yeah, those Bulls are down 20 at home to the Knicks.
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
9:51 pm
I understand they’re without Boozer…
But, I find it hard to believe that the addition of Boozer will catapolt them to the top tier of the East.
And, truthfully, the addition of Boozer means what when they matchup with the Hawks?
Smoove and Horford abused Boozer last season.
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
9:52 pm
And, I agree that the Hawks should’ve sought and attempted to sign a wingman to backup Marvin. I know we’re without Mo at the moment as well, but even with Mo, the Hawks could use a better option to backup injury prone/inconsistent Marvin Williams.
MannyT
November 4th, 2010
9:58 pm
@Rev in Tampa
LD is blackberry speak for local date.
http://crackberry.com/blackberry-101-beginners-guide-keyboard-shortcuts
The Hawks chose to go into the season with the backup options at SF as your starting SG, PF, and an athletic backup SG. This is the way they chose to complete the roster. It wasn’t that hard to locate some min salary options to back up the 3. At some point these things can come back to haunt the team. Last season, we were lucky with limited games lost to injuries. I doubt we would be that lucky 2 years in a row.
I hope Marvin heals quickly. Josh might be able to cover 3s on D, but I don’t think we want him hanging out at the 3 pt line during most offensive plays.
@Bama Brave–we welcome you to join us whenever you can make it to the highlight factory.
One of the problems with the attendance visual was this idea of making one side of the arena “luxury” seats. They are proably paid for, but you don’t get the most engaged fans in the corporate “I got a hook up” seats. However, the luxury section isn’t a ring around the arena, but a complete wedge from bottom to top opposite the team benches. Makes it look less engaged than it should be. Then again, that was a Wed night game against a winless team. Probably not a big walk up demand.
Official attendance 13003.
Actual people in the place–much lower.
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
10:01 pm
dap01,
Good point about not drafting Pape Sy, and just signing him as an undrafted FA. But my guess is they didnt see anybody else that they liked at that spot.
“Teague, JC2, Powell, Zaza, and Collins/Thomas may not be terrible. And should have a rebounding advantage.” Ramon .
Sure, they might have a rebounding advantage. But who would score the basketball?
And as for playing Powell at SF, I know desperate times call for desperate measures. But I’m not sure if he is up to the challenge.
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
10:07 pm
Wabe – LOL. I just logged on to make the same comment. Maybe some will think the hawks will finished behind the knicks in the east
doc
November 4th, 2010
10:08 pm
mc, thanks.
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:14 pm
ANYTHING on Marvin???
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:20 pm
Nevermind http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iDbf5lDFP1HONwf4ZRzx-0o3k73A?docId=5035455.
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
10:22 pm
ESPN.com says Marvin has a bone bruise and claim that he’s day to day.
They went on to say they only expect Marvin to miss a game or so.
I think we’ll manage fine without Marvin against the T’Wolves.
Truth be told, it’d be a different story were we playing a more formidable opponent, but, the T’Wolves? Not sure what the panic is about…
I mean, I thought most here labeled Marvin the invisible man anyways. Will the Hawks really struggle that much minus him against one of the worst teams in the league?
I think they’ll manage.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5764351
Wabe
November 4th, 2010
10:24 pm
I think we’ll see a lot more of the Zaza, Horford, Smith frontline…
It was rather successful at the end of the Pistons game, and I’d expect LD to lean more to this minus Marvin.
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:29 pm
You know, the concerns that people are voicing about the bench really baffle me because the bench has been one of the strengths of this team all season. I’m starting to like Teague, he’s showing that he can attack. I’d wondered about that. Za Za has given a lot of energy off the bench. Powell has been a nice pickup. JC1 is, well, JC1. JC2 is just cutting his teeth. When Mo Evans get back he’ll give us some much needed perimeter defense. Collins and Etan may not be playing much, but Collins has shown that when he’s put out there, he can do the job. On the hole, I feel pretty good about Atlanta’s second unit…
RA
November 4th, 2010
10:30 pm
Thanks Wabe.
Ra'mon
November 4th, 2010
10:41 pm
O’Brien, I understand what you’re saying. I just don’t know if we will have any other option. I mean if Joe or Josh picks up two quick fouls in the first quarter, what’s the alternative?
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
10:44 pm
Great news on Marvin. Let him rest till Monday. That’s when we find out the real status of our team mentally. Win or lose we’ve got to put up a solid effort and stick to LD’s system.
The Truth
November 4th, 2010
10:44 pm
Michael Beasley is recovering from a left hip contusion and participated in the entire practice on Thursday
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
10:48 pm
MO IS TOO SHORT TO BE SF. HE’S 6″5
Evelyn
November 4th, 2010
10:59 pm
WaBe the bulls have the right to have a bad game, I’m a bulls fan I don’t worry to much about this team they start off every year since drose came like they’ll be fine I think that you and other hawks need to worry more about going out and supporting your team rather the bulls being part of the east elite teams.
yoursporthouse.com
November 4th, 2010
11:16 pm
Marvin is soooooo inconsistent, he can sit out. Crawford being injured would be a much worse loss.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 4th, 2010
11:35 pm
“Most likely, reserve 6-foot-11 center Zaza Pachulia will move into the starting lineup, with Al Horford moving to power forward and Josh Smith to small forward. Drew said he favors that lineup because Minnesota’s starting frontcourt features Michael Beasley (6-10), Kevin Love (6-10) and Darko Milicic (7-0).”
This is not good news for the Hawks if Smoove is matched on Beasley… he has already proven that he can’t guard Beasley one on one during his days in Miami, and now he’s just going to be floating around the perimeter that much more.
Hopefully the fact that the Timberwolves suck will compensate for this.
northcyde
November 4th, 2010
11:49 pm
That was my pipe dream rotaton. More than likely, this will be the rotation:
PG: Bibby ( 28 ) – Teague ( 20 )
G: JJ ( 32 ) – Jordan ( 10 ) – Bibby ( 6 )
F: Smith ( 36 ) – JJ ( 12 )
PF: Horford ( 24 ) – Powell ( 18 ) – Smith ( 6 )
C: Zaza ( 26 ) – Horford ( 16 ) – Collins/Etan ( 6 )
*******
Total minutes:
JJ – 44
Smith – 42
Horford – 40
Bibby – 34
Zaza – 26
Teague – 20
Powell – 18
Jordan – 10
Collins/Etan – 6
Big Ray
November 5th, 2010
12:06 am
I don’t like the idea of Smoove being on Beasley either, but it is what it is. This is how you win DPOY. This is how you earn a spot on the all-star team. By working hard at your areas of weakness.
Having said that, Smith need only make things hard for Beasley, not stop him altogether. I got on Josh for letting J.J. Hickson take it to him, but Hickson wasn’t going to lead the Cavs to victory. Likewise, neither will Beasley. He’s just not that type of player. If the T-Wolves win this game, it will be because we didn’t contain or stop the other guys.
I actually think Josh can give Beasley fits if he keeps his feet on the ground, keeps a hand in his face when he’s shooting, and doesn’t give Beasley space to take him off the dribble. Or….maybe I’m wrong and it just continues to be a bad matchup. Still, compare the other positions and see where this isn’t as big of an issue as we think:
Center – Milicic vs. Pachulia – man PLEASE…This stiff gets 3 points and 5 rebounds per game. And he is shooting an incredible 14% from the field. Yeah…. 14% . WTF? Zaza does more than that from the bench.
Power Forward – Love vs. Horford – Love’s stats are a tad better than Horford’s right now, but Horford is quicker and Love is no defender. Love is shooting 41% from the field.
Shooting Guard – Jamal vs. Wayne Ellington – Jamal can’t defend, but Ellington isn’t killing anybody and he won’t be stopping Jamal, either.
Point Guard – Bibby vs. Ridnour – Ridnour is quicker, but he won’t stop Bibby, either.
I’m not worried about Josh/Beasley. I may or may not like the results of such a matchup, but that ain’t a killer.
I’m more worried about overplaying starters and injured bench guys (Jamal). I say we win anyway, and let JC2/Teague play plenty of minutes.
Clyde
November 5th, 2010
12:40 am
Ken Norman > Mavin Williams
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
November 5th, 2010
4:14 am
Adversity makes men (Hopefully LD show what type of coach he will be) – prosperity makes monsters (Cavs clownin on the sidelines during the King James years)
Will LD be a ‘master of panic’ (Shaq coined that title last season when describing Magic Coach Van Gundy’s manic style) or a cool, calculated, sick-genius who plays the cards he has been dealt to perfection? The verdict is still out, of course, but we should see a glimpse tonight in Minnesota.
I am in agreement with northcyde that JJ, Horford and Smash should play under 40. Drew has done an decent job with rotations and keeping players fresh – with Marvin and Mo out and JC1 possibly holding out (lol) let’s see him divvy up the minutes and get efficient/effective results.
MsDee
November 5th, 2010
6:00 am
Wow Northcyde, u are being quite contradictory..U never question woody for killing JJ while only playing one position at SG but u want to say that LD needs to be careful not to burn him out?? WOW!! The difference between Woody’s strategy and LD’s is that Woody over worked him with all the ISO’s where he HAD to work hard for his shots whereas LD’s offense allows JJ’s shots to be very easy. Plus LD has NO BACKUP SF therefore JJ HAS to be 2 positions, with Woody, Joe only had 1 position but yet woody still found a way to burn him out!!
wordsmithtom
November 5th, 2010
7:01 am
Marvin out should give LD opportunity to go deeper in bench. Horf wants more time at 4; use him there. Josh wants to play outside; use Zaza at center and put Josh at the 3. Collins, Powell and Etan pick up the slack. No reason to wear JJ out. Maybe give JC2 some burn. Worse case: we lose the game. 82 game schedule, you’ll lose some. I don’t think we lose, however. Plus, we give bench players time to get ready for tough stretch ahead. We’ll need them against Orlando.
dukester
November 5th, 2010
7:26 am
It’s sad that we feel like we need Marvin to compete. What does that say about us?
O'Brien
November 5th, 2010
7:36 am
“I actually think Josh can give Beasley fits if he keeps his feet on the ground, keeps a hand in his face when he’s shooting, and doesn’t give Beasley space to take him off the dribble.” Big Ray .
What I think will happen, is Josh will give Beasley space to take jumpers (hopefully Beasley will be off, because Hickson and Darrell Arthur were not).
And there will be times when Josh lets Beasley go by, and goes for the block instead of making the extra effort needed to keep Beasley in front of him. I look for Josh to have 4 blocks.
One good thing about the injury bug early on is it allows LD to try some different things, which he probably wouldnt have done if everybody was healthy.
This seems like a game we lose last year too, but Hawks should win this game. Minny sucks, and all our guys are rested.
wordsmithtom,
You’re right. The Minny game is just 1 game. But the 1 game that really matters is the Orlando game. The Hawks cannot afford to get blown out by Orlando.
Hopefully, guys wont have to play extended minutes against Phoenix on Sunday, because Orlando is next.
KevinM
November 5th, 2010
9:10 am
Time the play the bench the next couple of games and test the depth that has been brought in here. Friday night could be a night of many diff combinations we will see from LD.
But JC1 has to quit sulking and just go out and play his game. He has to show that this team can’t go forward without him. The types of 4th quarter plays that he is known for………
Fundamentals, I agree on the Mo comments, but Mo isn’t getting any minutes if he isn’t Marvin’s backup.
Northcyde, I say this seriously………why are you here? You should be out there putting together a roster. You break a rotation down like any coach would. I think you should put some thought into it whether at the high school level or AAU circuit.
Finally, say Sund starts thinking, yes, Marvin needs to be moved. Then who are you going to depend on at the 3? Putting Smoove there IMO doesn’t help LD contain Smoove’s perimeter dreams.
Things are going well right now, but I just think the PG situation needs to be improved. But to neutralize ‘any’ team we play going forward, we need that on the court leader who has a motor.
Seriously, what would this team look like with any of one of the Top 10 PGs in the league?
Perhaps Teague can get more time tonight?