Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 94, Pistons 85
Zaza gave the bench a lift with Jamal out. (Hyosub Shin / hshin@ajc.com)
– The Hawks shot 54 percent from the field against the Pistons. “We did?” Al said, incredulous.
– You can see why he’s surprised. Despite pretty much everyone but J.J. making shots, Atlanta had to be nearly perfect in the final six minutes to beat hapless Detroit. The reasons: 17 offensive rebounds for Detroit, leading to 16 second-chance points. “We were a little careless in that area, and it almost cost us the game,” Horford said.
– Yet, and so far there’s always a “yet” with this team, the Hawks overcame all they did wrong by getting themselves right at the end. That’s been the theme early in the season. “We’re not going to go out and blow out a lot of people,” L.D. said. “We have to learn how to win at the end. Sometimes it’s going to be pretty, sometimes it’s going to be ugly but we have to win in those types of situations.”
– This one actually ended up being pretty at the end. During that 18-4 closing run, the Hawks made seven straight baskets and Detroit missed 7 of 8. Atlanta’s energy dragged for most of the game but not at the end. “We were a little sluggish,” Al said. “I think everybody was feeling tired from the night before. I think everybody just had to push through to get this win.”
– The Pistons played last night, too, and their opponent was Boston, not Cleveland. The Hawks were without Jamal (and it especially showed during that second-quarter lull) but the Pistons “are missing half their team,” as Al put it.
– Zaza’s 12 points in 19 minutes were essential. Otherwise, Detroit’s 35-25 advantage in bench points would have been much worse.
– Marvin’s eight rebounds were essential for the Hawks, too, since he was the only guy outside of Smoove and Al putting in work on the boards. Facing the rare opponent that doesn’t enjoy a size advantage inside, the Hawks gave up offensive rebounds due to lack of awareness and energy.
– “Totally unacceptable,” L.D. said. “We didn’t get out bodies on people. It’s not just our big guys, our guards have got to dig out long rebounds.” Bibby, J.J., Teague, and JC2 totaled seven rebounds.
– JC2 got his most meaningful minutes of the season and was OK. Early in the fourth he took an ill-advised 3-pointer and threw away a pass but he also had two assists and generally didn’t hurt the Hawks.
– Teague’s three first-half turnovers marred an otherwise solid game. The Hawks needed the energy he and JC2 provided.
– J.J. missed a lot of wide open spot-ups. He’s 11 for 36 in his last two games. “It’s been a little tough the last two games,” he said. “I just haven’t really been able to get in a rhythm. I know it will come. I’m not really worried about that.”
– Maybe he’s just tired after playing 42 minutes at Cleveland and then logging 42 again tonight. It’s apparent L.D. is going to ride him in situations like this and tell him to keep shooting, but the game changed when Al and Smoove started touching the ball more late.
– To J.J.’s credit, he recognized he wasn’t getting it done and shared the ball for three assists in the fourth quarter. He also converted an and-1 that made it 89-83.
– With Jamal out, L.D. didn’t have a lot of other options to close. When Marvin went down, Zaza came in to play power forward and started the closing run with a reverse layup on a nice feed from Joe.
– Jamal may not make the trip to Minnesota. Marvin is questionable with what the team called a sprained right knee. “I’ve already got a lot of treatment,” he said. “I will just go home and kick my feet up and see how it feels in the morning.”
– Already Atlanta’s decision not to add another wing over the summer could be a problem. No Mo (who is more of a guard) and no Marvin means no small forward other than Joe (who isn’t one).
– Good thing for the Hawks Villanueva likes to jack up bad shots. Josh Powell might have matched him brick for brick if he had played more than 13 minutes.
– Ben Gordon scored on everyone the Hawks put in front of him. J.J., Teague, JC2 and Bibby either couldn’t get to him through screens or lost track of him at the 3-point line.
– While Jamal’s absence was felt by the Hawks, Will Bynum (hamstring) would have made a difference for the Pistons. “Not to have Will has really hurt us,” Tayshaun Prince said. “He helps us play at a faster pace and attack the pick-and-rolls.”
– Strangely, Pistons guard Rodney Stuckey only played 14 minutes, apparently because coach John Kuester didn’t want to put him back in.
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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106 comments Add your comment
brigadierjerry
November 4th, 2010
10:20 am
Good win. My question is do hawk fans really enjoy this type of style of offense or do they prefer the type of teams that are more defense type oriented hawks teams such as the Steve Smith Mookie Blaylok Mutumbo teams?Which type of team do you think you can go further with this type of team or the Mutumbo Blaylock type of teams
dukester
November 4th, 2010
10:21 am
Well Kevin Strickland I havent gone anywhere. Bring your ears close. TRADE MARVIN WILLIAMS FOR ANYBODY!!! Yep there i said it. Take his 22 pts the other night somewhere else. I hope he is not hurt so we can trade. I rather see harry the hawk play SF for the hawks. But I cant be mad at ole Marvin because fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on you.
ASG resigned this clown instead of trading his expiring contract for a darn center when they had a chance.
The hornets gave Tyson Chandler away for a bag of basketballs that year.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
10:21 am
Ugly game, but wonderful to see the resolve to win return when it counted. That’s something we rarely did in the past. A healthy sign. The fatigue is a sign that guys didn’t come into camp in shape, so are the nagging injuries.
MC – we need a real update on Marvin when it’s available.
Did anyone else see Smoove light up when he moved to the 3, Al dominate at the 4 and the Hawks roll when that line-up was in the game? Might be a good test to go big on Minny and the Suns to prepare for the real test on Monday.
Let’s see what the new/improved bigs can do w/ Al at PF and Josh at the 3 for the next 3 games. Can’t hurt. Wanted that all last year myself. If it fails miserably, then we’ll know for sure we should’ve signed a PG and a SF instead of bigs.
tim
November 4th, 2010
10:23 am
Glad to see the Hawks are 5-0 but HEY LARRY DREW…..You spent ALL of training camp “installing” a motion offense but for the last 3 games everyone stands around watching 1 guy with the ball…..
Same as last year……what’s up with that????????
J from the A
November 4th, 2010
10:29 am
Ummm Tim, you must not be watching the same games as everyone else.
While it is true that the Hawks are not exclusively using a motion offense and are, often enough, reverting to iso-plays, it should be clear to anyone who has been watching the games that their is a good bit of novelty (for the Hawks) in the offensive scheme. This novelty includes a good bit of motion sets/plays … though obviously the motion sets are not being ran exclusively.
A good mix of new and old is quite healthy, IMHO.
J from the A
November 4th, 2010
10:30 am
*there is a good bit [not their]
dukester
November 4th, 2010
10:30 am
And by the way where are all the folks last year that said Josh couldnt play SF????
You must be kidding me I am waiting to see LD call some isolation plays with Josh on the block against some smaller Small Forwards. That wuol be easy money for Josh.
J from the A
November 4th, 2010
10:36 am
Dukester said: “And by the way where are all the folks last year that said Josh couldnt play SF????”
[raised my hand] Well, I didn’t quite say Josh couldn’t play SF. I just though he was better at the PF slot, and that some of Josh’s weaknesses may be more fully exposed when he plays SF, especially when he is matched up against better SFs.
One of those “weaknesses” I was worried about was man-on-man defense around the perimeter. But I’ll be the first to admit that his man-on-man defense against Prince looked pretty solid last night.
J from the A
November 4th, 2010
10:37 am
man, I making alot of typos this morning. lol
*raise, not raised
* I just thought, not ‘I just though’
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 4th, 2010
11:13 am
JEJE STOP TRYING TO COP PLEA’S!!! YOU POST ON THIS BLOG JUST AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE WITH 90% OF YOUR POSTINGS BEING COMPLETE NONSENSE! So now, all of a sudden when the Hawks are winning, you develop a “life” and is too busy to post?!? Lol. Some of you dudes are funny as hell!
jdewayneatl
November 4th, 2010
11:19 am
I am glad to see more positivity around these parts. For a while I honestly couldn’t bare reading the blogs and comments because of all the negativity of a season that hadn’t even started. I think people are finally warming up to the Hawks and their tangible improvements. These are things that I see different in the Hawks this year.
1) Through five games I see a Hawks team that is gonna fight and won’t layover when times get hard during games.
2) I see a Hawks team that is deep and with players looking to step up each and every night.
3) A definite offensive scheme that gets the everyone on the court involved and doesn’t rely on 1 or 2 guys to create their own offense.
4) A coach that will ride the hot hand, play his bench, and has GREAT plays coming out of time outs. (i.e. the Bibby to Josh lob last night the Josh to Al lob versus the Wizards)
5) The best Center and Power forward duo in the Eastern conference.
6) A team that can win even when its best offensive threat doesn’t have it going.
7) And most importantly I see a team that is poised, confident, and trusts in one another.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
11:29 am
Amen jdewayneatl
I’m loving the confidence LD is instilling into every player. Even JC2 looked confident and didn’t seem too worried to make mistakes. Teague has already expressed that LD trusts him and allows him to play ball. This will only build trust in all members of the team where it seems to me anyone can be in the game without worry. Everyone trusts that each player can fill their niche. With the new offense, there are so many weapons that teams can’t shut 1-2 guys down to stop us. We’re allowing everyone to utilize their talents.
Smoove looked good at SF. He’s showing the confidence to shoot the midrange…and yes the 3 at times. I’ll admit I still cringe with every shot, but give the guy props, when he shoots in the flow of the offense, a healthy percentage are going in.
I still keep feeling at the confidence and freedom that LD is instilling is more helpful than anything else he could do. Players are developing, their beginning to maximize their talents? No longer are they worried about Woodson barking or yanking them back to the bench.
As we continue to develop, only good things are on the horizon.
Marvin, Mo and JC1 out only give opportunities for LD to show how he’s going to react. It gives other players minutes. It should help us down the road, assuming we can ditch the injury bug after Feb.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
11:31 am
JeJe wanted wholesale change and our team to fail. It didn’t happen and isn’t happening. He’ll chime in when there’s something he doesn’t like. Enjoy the positivity.
nes
November 4th, 2010
11:36 am
Pape Sy is going to be out for the year is my guess, he got his money and can’t play. I agree with above posts, even if he gets well enough to play, he has missed way too much practice and playing time to be effective this year. I can’t believe the Hawks wasted a 2nd round pick on this unknown, he would have been there for free agent signing and wouldn’t have to give him 2nd round contract money. He would have been cut by now if he was signed as a free agent anyway. Must play the bench players JC2, Etan and Collins for a few minutes a game or they will gather rust sitting on the bench. Also, Powell shoots the ball too much for the time he is getting in games. Orlando will be a very good indicator where the Hawks stack up against the more elite teams in the league.
All and all, i am greatly impressed with LD’s coaching and Conner his assistant on teaching defense!
yodaddy
November 4th, 2010
11:36 am
what @jdewayneatl said
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
11:44 am
nes – I argue every year to use all our pieces, but usually get beat down for doing so. I agree we need to keep JC2, Etan and Collins honed and ready. It’s hard for LD to go 12 deep, much less 15 deep.
LD wanted Pape, and he deserves that. Give him a chance to prove why. We all know it’s not going to be an overnight thing. We all know no coach uses all 15 folks. With the 3 players we’ve got out it’ll be time to see Etan, JC2 and Collins. Give LD time to develop Pape, it’s to early to make your judgement.
Ken Strickland
November 4th, 2010
11:51 am
DUKESTER-I’m sorry you feel that way about MWilliams. In fact, I feel sorry for all of those who want MWilliams, JJohnson, AHorford, JTeague and/or JSmith traded, because IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. So, as long as you continue being affected by PERSONAL ISSUE WITH CERTAIN PLAYERS, you’ll all have to suffer through a series of long miserable seasons.
TERRELL-Thanks for the reminder. His name should have been at the tip of the list. You know, there might be another reason for their disappearances. It’s highly likely that both SAMUEL and ROD FROM CP have seen enough of an improvement from our current Hawks to realize HC LDrew is actually a much better HC than their BELOVE WOODY, and are in mourning. It’s always hard on a person when they lose a loved one.
i_am_soulstar
November 4th, 2010
11:59 am
Perhaps Larry Drew’s conditioning has something to do with these Hawks closing out 4th quarters well. If anyone remmebers, 4th quarters were our weakness last year. But these guys seem to turn it up at the 6 minute mark.
I love it.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
12:02 pm
Question is, how is Marvin’s knee? The fall was bad. I hope he’s alright. He was just starting to find his niche and now this? I hope he can get back in at least a week or so.
Fundamentals
November 4th, 2010
12:04 pm
Turning it up at the end is what elite teams do. A skill we’ve lacked prior to LD. It think it comes from reduced minutes and increased confidence.
I will agree w/ Kenny Smith, the true test will be after we face real adversity. Will we gel and take it up another 2-3 notches, or will we revert to the old days and crumble. That’s the real question. Kenny doesn’t believe in our Hawks, but I do!
Ken Strickland
November 4th, 2010
12:11 pm
This is for the HATERS who insist on claiming the Hawks haven’t played anyone.
CELTICS(4-1)-Miami(W), Cavaliers((L), Knicks(W), Pistons(W), Bucks(W ot).
HEAT—–(4-1)-Celtics(L), 76ers(W), Magic(W), Nets(W), Timbertwolves(W).
MAGIC—(3-1)-Wizards(W), Heat(L), Knicks(W), Timberwolves(W).
Tell me how the schedules of these teams are so much more difficult than the one the Hawks have played. The Celtics have played one elite Eastern Conference team, the Heat, but lost to a Cavaliers team we defeated. The Heat have played 2 elite teams(Boston & Orlando), and lost to Boston. The Magic has played one elite team, the Heat, and got creamed.
If Teague progresses as expected, and is able to take over the starting PG position when Bibby fades, we’ll win the Eastern Conference. If not, we’ll finish in the top 3.
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 4th, 2010
12:39 pm
Fundamentals,
Marvin’s injury doesn’t sound too serious as he stated after the game that it was just a hard fall and he will see how it feels in the morning.
JC1 stated after the game last night that he hopes to play tomorrow @ Minny.
So maybe we dodged a bullet here.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=301103001
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
12:40 pm
LOL.
GTFOH you clowns. I have hardly posted consistently since August.
If you people monitor and scrutinize every one of my posts here, you really need some fresh air, or to go downtown, or to change cities. SMMFH
LOL @ idiots here thinking Marvin is now some stud because he had a 20 pt game. HE WENT SCORELESS AGAINST WASHINGTON. LOL! THE #2 OVERALL PICK GOING SCORELESS AGAINST THAT PATHETIC DEFENSE.
THE GUY HAS TO BE CALLED OUT IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY TRY. THE GUY DOES NOT ENJOY WATCHING BASKETBALL GAMES LOL
HE HAS NEVER ONCE MENTIONED HIS DESIRE TO BE AN ALL-STAR
LOL!!!!!
SMGDH
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 4th, 2010
12:40 pm
Ken Strickland,
Heat will get tested tomorrow night @ undefeated NO Hornets.
Freshfromatl AKA Fresh
November 4th, 2010
12:43 pm
JEJE,
But yet you find time out of your “busy” schedule to respond when your plaid skirt is getting lifted over your head and you panties are being exposed for everyone to see. Sucka!
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
12:43 pm
THESE 5 WINS DO NOT ERASE 6 FORGETTABLE YEARS UNDER POTATOHEAD
FIRE WOODY
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
12:49 pm
“JEJE,
But yet you find time out of your “busy” schedule to respond when your plaid skirt is getting lifted over your head and you panties are being exposed for everyone to see. Sucka!”
LOL. I’ve been called out plenty of times when I have not replied. What is there to say? Marvin has had 2 mediocre games so far this year, Smoove will not keep making that jumpshot, Bibby still is one of the worst PGs in the league. Beat Orlando and Boston this month and I will stop talking. Until this team does anything in the playoffs, I am not impressed
i_am_soulstar
November 4th, 2010
12:50 pm
So, now it’s a bit more clear (to me) what happened with Rodney Stuckey only playing 13 minutes.
http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2010/11/4/1793212/rodney-stuckey-and-john-kuester-feuding-weve-seen-this-before
cp
November 4th, 2010
12:51 pm
Injuries to both Marvin and Mo are the main reasons many of us on here wanted to sign a backup sf…Stackhouse was signed to the Heat if I’m correct and I cant think of any free agent sf that is available right now.,, I thought T-Mac was done but last night he showed he can still play. A backup sf would look nice right now instead of signing Etan Thomas…..I see another poster said the same thing I mentioned after last nights game, Josh Powell shoots wayyyyy to much. Its like he is trying to make up for all the non pt he got with the Lakers. He also has terrible hands. Dude has fumbled away so many good passes early on this season that its crazy… He has been decent but at the same time I can see why he didn’t get much pt…. The Wolves have been down right terrible so I think we win that game but the Suns game wont be easy at all. 2-1 over the next three games would be lovely.
ReddJonn68
November 4th, 2010
12:53 pm
WTF happened to Marvin over the summer is he on roids or what, whatever it is don’t change a thing DREW !!! Go Hawks !!!
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
12:54 pm
‘Let’s see what the new/improved bigs can do w/ Al at PF and Josh at the 3 for the next 3 game’
Yea, let cheeseburger start. If nothing else it will keep the blog interesting.
doc
November 4th, 2010
1:03 pm
ROFL at jeje, getting a bit hot there dude. hard to stay away when challenged?
you will get your time, i am sure of it, but hard to stay in the weeds waiting with this bunch aint it. even one of your riding partners clyde is calling you out. heh heh
it is all good.
ken good post at 12:10 or so about wins. no one is going to give any win back no matter the competition in the NBA. most games are decided by about two or three possessions this time of year.
adversity is good, especially when you win. we didnt have enough of it last year. couple of trap games coming up, wolves there and suns here before the magic game there.
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
1:06 pm
Doc,
If you are going to address me on a public forum:
1) Get a better grasp of English typing mechanics. Blatant disregard for capitalization rules implies to me you obviously are just conveying frivolous information and thus I will not waste my time to read this tomfoolery.
2) Get on my level
Thanks.
JeJe
November 4th, 2010
1:07 pm
FIRE RICK SUND. HE USES STUPID RECORD COMPARISONS OF THE TOP 8 TO SAY WE’RE AN ELITE TEAM. HE HAS ALIENATED JAMAL CRAWFORD. HE DOESN’T SPEND THE SURPLUS MONEY WE HAVE
GOOD JOB MORON. NO WONDER YOUR TEAMS IN DALLAS, DETROIT, AND SEATTLE BLEW BALLS
truthspitter
November 4th, 2010
1:29 pm
Sund is really bad at this contract thing he is handicapping the team with the wrong type of contracts. I went to http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm and saw that Sund gave Horford 12 million a year for next 5. Look at how they did Noah’s contract 10,11,12,13,14 that is how it should have been done to give more money in order to add pieces in the first couple of years. There is absolutely no way to trade Jamal now and it’s not because we could not get anything good for him it is because Sund does not know what he is doing and that is sad
Rev in Tampa
November 4th, 2010
1:45 pm
@JeJe – 1:07
Get a better grasp of English typing mechanics. Blatant disregard for capitalization rules implies to me you obviously are just conveying frivolous information and thus I will not waste my time to read this tomfoolery.
This goes for overuse if CAPITATIZATION as well as underuse.
Where is the dept. of unintended irony when you need him?
doc
November 4th, 2010
2:04 pm
jeje, sorry you missed that i was just kidding around and not too serious over this topic. i apologize as you seem to have you taken this so personally and negative. after all, it is just a blog.
jdewayneatl
November 4th, 2010
2:06 pm
@truthspitter,
If you look at it another way, keeping the salary the same is better for the Hawks because of Joe’s salary and Josh’s pending new contract. Joe’s salary didn’t hurt this year (its not much more than what he made last year). Long term its better that the Hawks save a couple million dollars at the end of the contract instead of the beginning BECAUSE Josh will have to be given a new contract in the 4th year of Al’s contract.
So its better to have a little money leftover at the end of the contract if the Hawks want to resign Josh instead of paying more at that time. You should know now that Sund and the Hawks operate a very tight accounting schedule and budget. Thats why you saw Sund get the deals for Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza to decline this year because they anticipated needing the cap space to give Joe his contract. He did it for a reason and that is for a long term outlook and not and immediate insight.
JoJo the Godfather
November 4th, 2010
2:28 pm
truthspitter…don’t you think al & his agent could have had something to do with the structure of his salary?…whose structure is more valuable to the player, al’s or noah’s?…you know the answer, that’s basic finance…structured like noah’s, maybe al would have demanded another million or two in salary.
dukester
November 4th, 2010
2:28 pm
@Ken Strickland. Now watch what you say! You say Marvin isn’t going anywhere. I bet he is the first guy to leave this team through trade thats in the so called “core” and the core is: (drumroll)
Marvin Joe Josh and Al. If you agree with that lets put up 2 Hawks seats. i bet marvin be the first to go. You can have the rest of the field. See i know i will win because of the core he “is the weakest link” You can continue your love fest of this scrub but I wont.
truthspitter
November 4th, 2010
2:55 pm
I wish we could trade Marvin for a big, especially if Josh has to play significant minutes at the 3 and shows he can do it. Timing is damn near everything in life. Biedrins is not playing great and looking like a bad contract right now for the Warriors.
Marvin and Mo for Biedrins and Reggie Williams I would be okay with that trade and it would not kill anything going forward.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23c2tx5
truthspitter
November 4th, 2010
2:56 pm
Once again I think we can move Marvin and should.
Marvin and Zaza for Hedo and Robin Lopez. I am telling you the Suns are not going to make the playoffs this year guys they may be willing to do something. Plus Hedo and Robin are both coming up with some disappointing games this year so far.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=24ujyn6
ReddJonn68
November 4th, 2010
3:06 pm
Ok @truthspitter Hedo is a complimentary player ( which is all Marvin will ever be ) & a crybaby just ask Toronto. Lopez is ok but he still could barely help New Jersey get 10+ wins, so what is the point in making a trade like that ???
ReddJonn68
November 4th, 2010
3:08 pm
My bag I thinking of the Lopez brother LOL
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
3:08 pm
cp,
I dont know why we didnt sign a guy like Rodney Carney (for the minimum) this off-season. He can play a little SG or SF, and he is 2 or 3 inches bigger than Mo. I think he would be a much better backup than Mo, for about half the price.
The only guy I can think of who is available is Damien Wilkins. ‘Nique might be on the phone with Rick Sund right now, telling him about Damien’s “nimbers” whenever he plays the Hawks.
ReddJonn68
November 4th, 2010
3:10 pm
My point was that Robin can’t hold a candle to his own brother, & you want us to trade for garbage ???
O'Brien
November 4th, 2010
3:12 pm
truthspitter,
I think $12 mil flat per year is a good way to go (instead of the 10,11,12,13,14 you suggested).
As a matter of fact, if anything, Rick should have gone 14,13,12,11,10.
That way, with the new CBA probably lowering salaries, and JJ’s salary increasing, plus probably having to resign Josh in 2 or 3 years, Al’s salary wouldnt be as high.
Plus a decreasing salary would make Al more tradeable later on if they wanted to explore that option.
Jae Evolution
November 4th, 2010
3:50 pm
Golden State has some of the most underrated SF’s ever, I wish we could’ve snagged just ONE of those guys man. D. Wright is a solid defender and apparently a 3-point threat, R. Carney is a vicious slasher with a decent jumpshot, and R. Williams is typical scorer who can play decent defense when he wants to, all three are very solid players.
Nate ArchiBALL
November 4th, 2010
4:02 pm
Josh Childress would be nice in a Hawk uniform right about now….
terrell
November 4th, 2010
4:07 pm
JeJe, you better get back to your busy life. lol! And btw, I’ve bashed Marvin myself a few times, but at least I dont hide when he plays well. And I’d say 3 GOOD games out of the 1st 4 is playing well. Good day.