Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 99, Wizards 95
Iso-Joe was OK tonight. (Hyosub Shin/ hshin@ajc.com)
– The Hawks are 3-0. Whatever their flaws, they can can take comfort in the fact that they have J.J. and Jamal to make something happen when all else fails.
– J.J. wasn’t hitting early, even when he went to the basket. Then he went off for 14 points in the fourth quarter. “He’s our guy,” L.D. said. “We rely on him a lot down the stretch. I told him I don’t want him to get discouraged. We put the ball in his hands at the end of games.”
– Joe made two iso jumpers that gave the Hawks the final spark they needed. “Joe Johnson hit some tough shots tonight,” Wiz rookie John Wall said. “That’s why he got paid this summer.”
– The Hawks called it a sellout at Philips but the seats weren’t full. Still, it was a pretty good crowd that stayed into it even when the Hawks were dragging. Said J.J.: “It was great to see everybody come out and show their support. We appreciate that.”
– The Hawks wouldn’t have been in position to win if Jamal hadn’t kept them above water in the first half. He had eight points as Atlanta’s bench scored 18 of 26 points in the second quarter and helped limit the Wizards to 13. Jamal will always attack with that floater.
– “‘Instant offense’ Jamal,” Al said. “We have to come up with a nickname for him. That might be a Twitter thing I do. Every time he comes in, he changes the game. We’re lucky to have him.”
– There was a Twin sighting, too. He had a pass go through his hands for a turnover soon after he checked in but quickly made amends. He blocked Andray Blatche’s shot to start a fast break that ended with a layup by Jamal, then harassed Blatche into a miss and followed with a jump shot to tie it at 40-40.
– “We’ve got to provide a lift,” Jamal said of the bench. “We want to push the tempo and get some easy baskets. If our starters are in a funk, we’ve got to get them back on track.”
– After facing two opponents with little post presence (thanks to injuries to Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph), the Hawks were bothered by Washington’s length. Early on all that size packed into a zone had Atlanta taking a lot of jump shots.
– The Wizards bring in waves of athletic bigs. They had 13 blocked shots with JaVale McGee’s eight leading the way. One time Joe missed a layup because McGee was standing nearby.
– “It’s tough,” Al said. “They got to a couple shots I didn’t think they could get and McGee went up and go it. That’s impressive. Those are the teams where you have to go strong to the basket. We did a better job of that in the second half.”
– McGee also threw down a ferocious dunk on Smoove (Al got the heck out of the way). He is a big, athletic dude.
– Another double-double for Al. He made a baseline jumper and then threw down an alley-oop from Smoove to give the Hawks breathing room late.
– L.D. kept urging Teague to use picks and go at the hole. He obliged, though he had trouble finishing among all those big bodies. His jump shot remains a liability.
– At one point in the fourth, L.D. played Bibby and Crawford together with Joe at small forward and Powell and Zaza in the frontcourt.
– Wall brought the Wizards back at the end of the third by scoring 11 points in a row. The Hawks gave him jumpers in the fourth, which is the book on him, and he made 4 of 5. “He’s a blur out there,” Smoove said. “When he’s finishing at the rim and making shots, he’s real tough.”
MC
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122 comments Add your comment
John
October 30th, 2010
11:24 pm
What is Lester Connor’s role? He was fired up towards the end, barking out orders. Joe barked back once. Seemed odd. What’s up?
truthspitter
October 30th, 2010
11:34 pm
This team is suspect but I will take 3-0. They really should be 7-0 before they get beatdown by Orlando.
Hmmm
October 30th, 2010
11:43 pm
3rd!
Hmmm
October 30th, 2010
11:55 pm
Yeah, I wasnt impressed with this game. It’s time to trade marvin. Etiher that or he needs to be banned from the 3pt line like smoove. He’s a midrange guy, and now he’s playing scared AGAIN smh. Hopefully Mo & Pape get well soon cuz we need some kind of production from that spot. I’ve seen enough of Marv in Drews offense to tell by now. I guess a Leopard truly cant change it’s spots. Marvin has reached his ceiling, and it’s not very high. Time to cut our losses and move on. Hi defence (when he’s focused) is really good and will be tough to replace. He does a good job on Lebron and Carmelo.
Bibby & Jamal should be ashamed of themselves (28 pts by the rook) that was some ugly D. At least RECOVER after you go underneath the screen SMH.
Is anyone else tired of Al Thorton going off whenver he plays us? Dude gets punked by all the other 29 teams in the league but because he’s from Perry, GA he gets hype for us. I’m sick of it. SOMEBODY LAY THAT DUDE OUT.
Lastly, the D needs work, Specifically Bibby and JC1 need work. More JT0 & JC2 in this game and wall probably would barely have 20, if that.
I’m loving Zaza 2.0 and Josh Powell out there. They’ve been holding it down.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
October 30th, 2010
11:56 pm
truthspitter – Orlando ain’t beating down atl. sorry brah. they may beat them but no blowout.
Hmmm
October 31st, 2010
12:00 am
In other news, JJ had the firt putback Tip-dunk of his NBA career tonigh LOL. He also tied his carrer high for dunks in a game with two. When I tell you I was shocked, I kid you not. I don’t know whats gotten into him lately, but I like it.
Hmmm
October 31st, 2010
12:00 am
*first
Hmmm
October 31st, 2010
12:03 am
The ally-oop against the sixers shocked me as well. If he kkeps this upsombody may have to make a JJ dunk mix ha!
Hmmm
October 31st, 2010
12:08 am
“McGee also threw down a ferocious dunk on Smoove (Al got the heck out of the way). He is a big, athletic dude.”
Yes, Al did…..smh LOL!
Section 303
October 31st, 2010
12:09 am
Wow! Joe appreciates the fans all of a sudden. Gee…nice of him to say.
I was worried about Wall coming into this one. It seemed like Wall did not get aggressive until the 2nd half. Wonder where that was the first half?
Good win. 3 and 0. Not surprised this one was tough. I thought Marvin was the only real no show tonight. He was a total nonfactor.
Hmmm
October 31st, 2010
12:10 am
Al Horford (21 points and 10 rebounds) and Josh Smith (12 points, 10 rebounds) LOVE IT!
DHunt
October 31st, 2010
12:44 am
Surprised me that LD didn’t go to Teague to try to slow down Wall, but give it up to the young man, cause he is going to do that to a lot of teams before it’s all said and done. It amazes me that people act like these NBA teams should be pushovers. Every team in this league plays hard and any team can beat any other on a good night.
Marvin did not bring his work ethic today. Maybe a little tired, everyone seemed to be. But if he gives us two good games out of three for the rest of the year, I’ll take it, and it will lead to home court advantage.
Orlando did not beat us in the playoffs because we couldn’t handle Howard. They beat us because we couldn’t generate any offense. We beat them 3 times in the regular season last year. Lack of offense will not be the case this year. Howard will get his, but we should be better as a team than Orlando this year.
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
1:16 am
“– L.D. kept urging Teague to use picks and go at the hole. He obliged, though he had trouble finishing among all those big bodies. His jump shot remains a liability.”
From the previous blog
The problem with Teague is his inability to create plays for himself. That’s why he looked even worst in Woody’s ISO offense. I’ve notice when he’s in the game on offense, he basically stands mostly stationary and either waits for an opening from a defensive breakdown or he defers to others. Yes, some of that was because of the Wizard’s zone defense which greatly altered what the Hawks wanted to do in their motion offense. In Drew press conference, he said their “zone defense” forced them into playing a “zone offense”. So, perhaps this hindered Teague’s aggressiveness somewhat. But I don’t believe he is meeting LD’s expectation yet of attacking and dictating the offense the way he envision. Teague is still deferring too much to others. He doesn’t have to have a bully style game like John Walls. He could still force the issue playing a playmaker style of game similar to Rondo. If I had to define Teague style of game at this point, I would base it on the biblical book of Job. Teague just waits and waits until he is blessed with an opening to the rim otherwise he defers. Maybe we are asking too much out of him. He really doesn’t have any wicked crossover or shake and bake moves. Even his jump shot is still a work in progress. Those attributes are not yet in his repertoire necessary to create is own shots. He just relies on his quickness which is fine in the open court but in the half court set, he needs more tricks which he hasn’t shown yet. But to fully understand Teague we have to first understand his background:
“Played two seasons at Wake Forest before declaring early for the 2009 NBA Draft; Speedy and versatile athlete who can played both the point and off-guard position … Saw the bulk of his playing time at shooting guard as a freshman but moved into the starting point guard spot as a sophomore after Ishmael Smith was injured in the preseason … Held on to the starting spot even after Smith’s return … Was one of the top scoring point guards in the nation in 2008-09 … Lightning quick first step allowed him to blow by defenders”
http://wakeforestsports.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/teague_jeff00.html
So playing only one year at the PG position at Wake qualifies Teague to be still somewhat “green” at the NBA level since his last year PT was extremely light. Unless Teague evolve and expand his game beyond his brief college days, he may not have the impact some are expecting of him. He may not be that kind of player. It doesn’t necessarily mean he will not have a successful NBA career, it may mean he’s just a good role player. We shall see
Jedi Falcon
October 31st, 2010
1:42 am
The Hawks suck. All they have beaten are scrub teams (and barely). They will be lucky to finish 3rd in their own division.
Jedi Falcon
October 31st, 2010
1:44 am
Wait til the Hawks play Boston or Orlando or Miami or the Lakers or a GOOD team. Then that will shut fans of this crap team up.
Rev in Tampa
October 31st, 2010
1:54 am
Truth, good, thoughtful post. I saw it on the previous blog and was going to post it here for you if you did not repost it.
Jedi Falcon
October 31st, 2010
2:09 am
Joe Johnson – Most Overrated & Overpaid Player in the NBA.
Big Ray
October 31st, 2010
2:12 am
Truth ,
No doubt. Teague’s aggression issues are more to blame than anything else. We already have that problem with Marvin, we do NOT need it in a pg, of all things. Well, he is getting his feet good and wet here in his rookie season 2.0, as I like to call it. He is going to have to accelerate that learning curve, however. I’ll give it about 20 games and then re-gauge where he’s at, but there should definitely be some discernable evidence that he’s improved by then.
hawks_4_life
October 31st, 2010
2:15 am
Just looked at the schedule and by time we play Orlando it will be our third back to back. Wow the schedule gods seem against us on that one.
hawks_4_life
October 31st, 2010
2:16 am
Jedi thanks for being a fan and supporting the team
Big Ray
October 31st, 2010
2:43 am
LOL. Some people are just like that, Hawks 4 life .
As for Orlando, I’m just tired of the blowouts. Sure, I want to win games against them, but I’m really sick of us showing up and laying right down.
i_am_soulstar
October 31st, 2010
2:50 am
3-0… I’m with it.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
October 31st, 2010
3:11 am
@ hawks_4_life, the scheduling gods don’t exist – the nab just wants another blow victory for the Magic. We gott get at it – no excuses, no fear.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
October 31st, 2010
3:59 am
NBA – my bad
Clyde
October 31st, 2010
4:40 am
*yawn*
Jedi Falcon
October 31st, 2010
5:08 am
When we get beat by Orlando 120-85 this Hawks hype will be laid to rest.
Jedi Falcon
October 31st, 2010
5:10 am
The Hawks are the only NBA team that continues to try to play with No True Center. You have to have a BIG MAN in the Middle that plays DEFENSE.
vava74
October 31st, 2010
5:22 am
Teague is playing as if his ankle is still bothering him.
My guess is that due to this is speed and vertical are diminished and he lost his confidence.
Anyhow, I don’t think he compromised. On the contrary, he was on the floor when we made a run in the first half.
Marvin had a bad game after two reasonable ones. Get off his back. In his first two games he played good D and contributed.
Yesterday he didn’t. We got the win, period.
In relation to defending Wall, we actually did a good job (including Bibby who played smart D) for most of the game with the exception of a stretch during the third quarter in which we played zone D with Marvin at the top.
In the 4th, leaving Wall to shoot from 3 was theoretically the best option.
Another factor which HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION:
Wall benefited from 3 consecutive STAR CALLS in the third which would have been 3 consecutive turnovers instead of 3 trips to the FT line.
We are talking about the same team of refs that called a PALMING OFFENSE on JJ in the waning minutes, CLEARLY LOOKING FOR JJ COMPLAINING SO THEY COULD CALL A TECHNICAL FOUL.
How many times have you seen the refs calling a palming offense to Wade, Lebron, Durant, Rose, … during the last couple of minutes of a tight match? And at a HOME GAME?
Jamillion
October 31st, 2010
5:43 am
Well first off good win tonight. Second to everyone who says wait til the hawks play a good team. Boston we swept them and three of the games by double digits.La blow them out here. And squandered the lead there. Portland swept them. Same for utah.Suppose to swept dallas also. And cleveland we went 1 n 3 against only because of the queen james rule and remember the game they stopped the shot clock. We struggle with orl cause we play to their strengths( let their shooters bury us by doubling dw) and had no coaching or scheme then.
hawks_4_life
October 31st, 2010
5:51 am
I know im wrong but I think its too ironic our home game comes on the second half of a back to back while the wizards (Wall) comes in with a days rest. Maybe the NBA is trying to get the Wizards over the hump. Either way good win especially on a back to back, we have to factor that when judging last nights game.
Jamillion
October 31st, 2010
6:14 am
Men lie women lie numbers don’t. We were 5-1 against the two teams in the finals last year. But all we can look at is how bad woody and our o looked against the team that didn’t make it. Hell since we talking about elite we were 8-4 against the teams that were in the quarter finals last year. The problem with you guys you watch too many commercials.If the hawks had a superstar we’ll get that media luv, that sc highlight luv. Hell use your brain, look at the game.We won 53 games last year with no coach, no adjustments, no scheme, just talent. Ps this ain’t the 80s the allstar 7ft is dead would u really want kaman or candyman over al. Those teams a do that trade asap bet u can get tyrus or hawe too. We don’t have a super star but we have 4 allstars.I’ll take that any day and most gms would to. Plus where all there true all star centers at i see a bunch of tall guys al (baby td) is out scoring n rebounding. So your true centers ain’t jack. Yea there a a few i’ll take before al but as i see it al is gonna be goo
Geemack
October 31st, 2010
6:21 am
Jedi Falcon
Joe Johnson – Most Overrated & Overpaid Player in the NBA.
No…That would be Chris Bosh.
Jamillion
October 31st, 2010
6:35 am
And for all you guys talking about milwaukee aren’t they defeated? Like o and four.I told you i ain’t scared of corey maggette and they have been getting blown out. And chicago just barely got their first win.All i know is we were we pose to be. Don’t let these crystal ball columnists trick you opinions are like azzholes. Everybody got one. Told me dallas was going to the super bowl for the last ten years, and i been beating against them for the last ten years. Told me lebron n kobe for the last three years and i been beating against lebron for the last three years. Once we cut down on turn overs and find some production from the 3 and point we can really take off. Man give denver marvin and three ones for melo, and call it a day. Hell they gone all be scrub picks anyway. Now that a be a dynasty. Go hawks
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
6:54 am
“No…That would be Chris Bosh.”
In fairness to Bosh, although without a doubt he is most overrated, Rashard Lewis is by far the most overpaid.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
6:57 am
“Wait til the Hawks play Boston or Orlando or Miami or the Lakers or a GOOD team. Then that will shut fans of this crap team up.”
Wait till the Falcons play the Jets or the Ravens or the Giants (or the Eagles or the Steelers) or a GOOD team…
See how that works?
Rev in Tampa
October 31st, 2010
7:18 am
Najeh, I’ll wait til the Falcons play a good team, but I am going to enjoy it today. Even the little old ladies in church hate on me when the Falcons play the Bucs. Although all these Gator fans are going to be razzing me before church, after church, and several of them will even be wearing Gator ties.
nes
October 31st, 2010
7:34 am
I am glad the hawks have started off winning! nothing replaces winning and hopefully the team is buying into the motion offense completely. Of note: Marvin should have been traded before the season when he still had value! Now other teams see Marvin isn’t a top player in any offense and his trade value has now plummeted to where hawks can’t get a good sixth player for him! Pape Sy never will be healed, he only played a handfull of games over there and to come over to the USA and the NBA is a hugh difference. He doesn’t have the endurance or experience to play a full NBA schedule, thus why waste the 2nd round pick on him when could have signed him as a free agent! Should have drafted Center Whiteside and developed a bone-fide center. About Teague, he will be a back-up this year with real playing time minutes under L.D., last year was a wash out. Teague will develop but is going to need another year of experience and playing time to develop, i agree with the above blogs that one true year in college as a PG wasn’t enough for the NBA. My summary is this: JJ still iso-joe in closing minutes again and is the most over-paid to be just a good player i have ever watched play. The hawks still should have signed one of the true centers via free agency this year and didn’t, it will bite them against the stronger teams and also if they make the playoffs-disaster waiting to happen again in the center dominate playoffs!
Jamillion
October 31st, 2010
7:56 am
Naj that was tbs very funny. Oh tell jedi mind trick, he can get eddie curry for a happy meal and kwame brown for a double stack. Bet the people in new york loving their true center. Hold up he the same height as al. Look good players are good players and the hawks have good players, just not that sexy glamorized star who makes your team a contender cause he gonna get the calls.Jedi i wanna see matt ryan air it out lyke a real qb.Oh my bad he doesn’t have any arm strength,now that dudes overrated.
Jamillion
October 31st, 2010
8:17 am
And to nes and all the people with low player rating iq. I would lyke to be informed on, WHO DA HELL IS THIS MYSTERIOUS TRUE CENTER, WE DIDN’T SIGN. I WANNA KNOW HIS NAME, PLEASE TELL ME SO I WILL NOT FEEL IGNORANT ANY LONGER. Who is he? Where he come from cause to my recollection there is only one one bonafide center and he in orlando, no one else is close and he even has flaws. And the second best center stays hurt far too much in houston they already look like a lottery team again. So who kwame brown ,dampier, miller, oh shaq yeah he played wit phoenix and they got sweep out the play offs as a 8th dumped him and went back to a 3 seed, he sure came up big against dh in the play offs cough cough. Stop the hate congratulate it a kill ya.
Ramon
October 31st, 2010
9:09 am
Sorry but Arenas is the most overpaid, lol. And Lopez is the most overrated.
nunna!!
October 31st, 2010
9:38 am
last year in a game like last night against the wiz,we would have found a way to lose..
period..
with LD and the coaching staff giving the bench more pt and being able to rest our bigs and playing 10-11 players on any given night,I LOVE IT!!
WE WILL HAVE NO TIRED LEGS(WITHOUT ANY MAJOR INJURIES THIS SEASON)COME PLAYOFF TIME..
AND JOE WON’T BE TIRED AND BEAT UP COME ALL STAR BREAK!!
I believe in you LD,and i unlike others didn’t think it was a mistake to hire u and felt as though the ASG was going on the cheap when they hired you..
I liked what u were saying when questioned about the direction,scheme and personal play u expect from this team..But,with each game(even tho its 3) we seem to get better..
I like what i see..
Im glad we hired you and i think in the end,everyone will see that you are the right person to lead this team..
God Bless and Good Luck,
Nunna!!
ILL-Logical
October 31st, 2010
9:46 am
Was at the game last night and observed :
1. Joe is playing above the rim fro the first time in his Hawk career.
2. The Hawks front line will compete successfuly against 85% of the NBA because of the lack of strong ,long athletic players. However, the other 15%,Boston.Orlando, LA and possibly Memphis at full strength, will continue to cause problems.
3.Defensively, Bibby and Jamal are not good-I know I get the sherlock Holmes award for that observation- but at some point that issue-a stronger defensive guard -has to be addressed. Perhaps that is Coach Drew’s hope for Pape?
4.All in all, a good win on a less than spectaclar opening night. Oh, and the former cheeseburger now tofu Collins played well in limited minutes.
steve brown
October 31st, 2010
10:18 am
The missing Crawford for Teague-what have we got to lose-Crawford earned it in the pre-season-Teague is being given it on a wing and a prayer (can’t shoot-can’t finish).
J from the A
October 31st, 2010
10:27 am
@Ill-Logical: I like the new nickname for Collins. Out with ‘Cheeseburger’ and in with Tofu Collins! Maybe it will stick.
#J.J.lovesthefans Said J.J.: “It was great to see everybody come out and show their support. We appreciate that.” I don’t think J.J. has ever said otherwise.
Oh, that. That was simply a statement about how J.J. and the Hawks have to get their stuff together independent of any fan support.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
10:27 am
Can we please trade Marvin Williams for Captain Jack.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25xt6bg
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
10:28 am
Or, Can we please trade Marvin Williams for Gerald Wallace
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yadqlpm
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
10:28 am
Or, Can we please trade Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, and Zaza for Iggy, Hawes, and Lou Williams
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27xbw3e
Of course I would be willing to trade a 1st round pick or maybe 2 first round picks for the right deal
Can we please?
JustAThought
October 31st, 2010
10:35 am
To all you hawk fans………..congradulations! Too bad they don’t play for nba championships in October!
doc
October 31st, 2010
10:51 am
hmm, even better is the totals from the combination pf and c position 31 rebounds and 40 points. pretty significant numbers from those two positions over 48 minutes. they had similar numbers against the sixers. want to see this continue against some of the bigger well balanced teams of course, just the same they have done well as a collective in the first three games.
Ree Roe
October 31st, 2010
11:02 am
@ truthspitter, those 3 trade suggestions are terrible. Bobcats wouldn’t trade Wallace for Marvin & Captain Jack needs the ball to much to be effective. I’m all for improving the team, but if we trade Marvin it needs to be for a bonafide defensive stopper/3 pt specialist
-REEview it Roe!!!
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
11:33 am
Ree Roe
October 31st, 2010
11:02 am
@ truthspitter, those 3 trade suggestions are terrible. Bobcats wouldn’t trade Wallace for Marvin & Captain Jack needs the ball to much to be effective. I’m all for improving the team, but if we trade Marvin it needs to be for a bonafide defensive stopper/3 pt specialist
-REEview it Roe!!!
Your opinions mean nothing and show how ignorant you are. You could always throw in a pick or the trade exception to make it sound better and people are always talking about what another team would not do until someone trades Pau Gasol for his brother and a bunch of nobodies and some picks. Or someone refresh me on what Orlando gave up to get Vince Carter again? Courtney Lee and some other things that noone remembers. Seriously I hope Sund has more creative spirit than you dudes.
TigerWoods
October 31st, 2010
11:38 am
why did my comments in the last blog come under review by moderator? I don’t know, i mean i didn’t start anything or use incorrect language or anything
Any way, good start for the Hawks, just a Hawks fan here, but guess I aint welcome when i get censored.
Sautee
October 31st, 2010
12:16 pm
truthspitter,
If we are making ANY trade, then it should be for a starting caliber PG who can play D, which is our most obvious weakness.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
12:17 pm
I am very unhappy with the way Sund is handling personnel issues. He sets the market for Marvin and overpays him because noone else even cared to make a pitch because everyone knows this guy is basically a bust. On the other hand, he is most likely trying his best to lowball Al which will probably result in him hitting the open market where Sund will have to overpay. Give the guy 5 year $65 to $70 million and move on.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
12:21 pm
Sautee
October 31st, 2010
12:16 pm
truthspitter,
If we are making ANY trade, then it should be for a starting caliber PG who can play D, which is our most obvious weakness.
I disagree. Teague will be a quality starter that does something well on the regular before Marvin will be. Why are you so ready to give up on Teague as opposed to Marvin? SF is one of the most productive positions in the league and we have a dud at that position. Bibby contributes just fine on a regular basis. Bibby makes shots the overwhelming majority of the time and Marvin does nothing well the majority of the time.
darrell starks
October 31st, 2010
12:29 pm
MARVIN 0 POINTS
AL THORNTON 24 POINTS
WHAT A BUST.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 31st, 2010
12:39 pm
From what i have seen so far LD coaching have been pheonomal great job LD, coach understand that marvin will never be better he is basically a liability on the team with no fire.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 31st, 2010
12:43 pm
Marvin atleast play defense and get more rebound, i never see marvin playing inside 2 fight for more rebounds, all he do is stand around the three point line waiting for a shot.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
12:59 pm
I stand corrected. Ramon is right. Arenas is the most overpaid. Eddy Curry is probably #2 with Rashard at #3.
Jody
October 31st, 2010
12:59 pm
MC,
Any word on the possible extension for Al Horford?
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
1:01 pm
Rev in Tampa, that post was more about Jedi Falcon’s stupid post than about the Falcons. I could have used any team to make my point, but I picked the Falcons because he mentions them in his screen name.
I.MUS WRITE
October 31st, 2010
1:02 pm
Not again this year……. Do we really expect Marvin to be any better- ABSOLUTELY NOT. 12/5 is what we’ll get this year. This guy is an overpaid role player who will occasionally give you 20 plus points. Cpt Jack/ GWallace …I would be suprised if we could get boris diaw for Marvin-I used to get pissed because we wasted a pick on marvin but im over it-My stomach turns when i see guys like JJ Hickson a 2nd round pick steadily getting better………………Vomit
Joe C.
October 31st, 2010
1:04 pm
Yea that John Wall guy really sucks
I.MUS WRITE
October 31st, 2010
1:04 pm
falcon jedi- I see you’re looking for attention on the Hawks MB now………….dont feed the stray dogs they’ll go away
cp
October 31st, 2010
1:15 pm
I know its early in the season but seriously how much longer will there be excuses for Marvin. Dude just does not have it. I would love to move Marv for Battier. At the end of the day Marvin has to show that fire and it just aint in him. Its time to stop the excuses for this dude and just chalk it up that he is what he is, an average player.
KevinM
October 31st, 2010
1:24 pm
The Hawks are who we think they are….
-We know they have talent
-We know that they have gotten better every year
-We know what to expect from the starting lineup.
-We know Smoove still wants to play face-up a few times/game. Looks like he is forcing it at times.
What we don’t know if how much the bench can help on a regular basis. So far, they have been panning out on the positive side. Collins, Zaza, Powell and JC1 have already had good moments.
I am still waiting on Teague to get his game together…
I still would like to see where JC2 can actually contribute; perhaps less minutes early for Joe?
It does appear that if you are beyond the 10 man roster, you won’t see much time, because there just arent enough minutes to give out when you are trying to sustain or recover a lead.
A good start for LD and the troops; I can see the season going like this all year heading to the playoffs. That’s where anything we have battled over will be played out.
Perhaps we start competing against Orlando and play the rest like we always have…..that should put LD in a good spot for the postseason.
I still wish Sund could blow us all away with a strategy to take this team a notch higher…….wishing, waiting……oh well, there’s always hope and change. Wouldn’t it be something if we could have 3 represent at all -star weekend?
KevinM
October 31st, 2010
1:28 pm
Where do you guys go to get up-to-the day stats on the Hawks? Looks like nba.com doesn’t have anyone working on the weekend…..
I want to see how the balance of power/distribution is going after Week 1…..much appreciated.
O'Brien
October 31st, 2010
1:50 pm
“Your opinions mean nothing and show how ignorant you are. You could always throw in a pick or the trade exception to make it sound better…” truthspitter .
You are accusing people of being ignorant. But yet you did not know that you cannot add the player exception to another player.
Trade exceptions can’t be added to anything . A team can acquire 125% of the salary they trade away (in a simultaneous trade). So if they have a $10 million player, he can be traded for up to $12.5 million in incoming salary. If they also have an outstanding trade exception for $5 million, they can’t add it to the $12.5 million in order to acquire a player making $17.5 million. The trade exception can only be used to acquire a player or players making the amount of the exception or less (plus a $100,000 fudge factor)..
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=14923
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
2:26 pm
O’Brien
October 31st, 2010
1:50 pm
“Your opinions mean nothing and show how ignorant you are. You could always throw in a pick or the trade exception to make it sound better…” truthspitter .
You are accusing people of being ignorant. But yet you did not know that you cannot add the player exception to another player.
Trade exceptions can’t be added to anything . A team can acquire 125% of the salary they trade away (in a simultaneous trade). So if they have a $10 million player, he can be traded for up to $12.5 million in incoming salary. If they also have an outstanding trade exception for $5 million, they can’t add it to the $12.5 million in order to acquire a player making $17.5 million. The trade exception can only be used to acquire a player or players making the amount of the exception or less (plus a $100,000 fudge factor)..
Dude I know that shows how much of an idiot you are. Marvin makes 3 million less than Gerald Wallace and we have a $3 million trade exception quit trying to sound smart dummy
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
2:54 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Blog Master: what did say that you don’t like?
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
2:55 pm
* what did I say that you don’t like?
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:24 pm
truthspitter
“Dude I know that shows how much of an idiot you are. Marvin makes 3 million less than Gerald Wallace and we have a $3 million trade exception quit trying to sound smart dummy”
Trade machine says Marv for Wallace won’t work!
It appears O’B is correct.
Actually it not only appears O’B is correct,
he is absolutey 100% Right!
Dude, who’s the dummy now?
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:32 pm
* We need to re-sign Jamal * {{{read on}}}
A fundamental truth about the Orlando Magic.
Dwight Howard might need a sidekick who can create his own shot consistently.
“We don’t have the great one-on-one players.”
-[Orlando Sentinel]-
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:39 pm
***above quote…^…Van Gundy…^…***
*[“We don’t have the great one-on-one players.”]
* -Stan Van Gundy-
(reprinted for your convenience)!
O'Brien
October 31st, 2010
3:40 pm
truthspitter,
Why can’t you respond without the name calling? Did you read the entire paragraph, or click on the link?
If they also have an outstanding trade exception for $5 million, they can’t add it to the $12.5 million in order to acquire a player making $17.5 million. .
So with Marvin making $3 mil less than Gerald Wallace, we CANNOT add the exception to Marvin’s salary to make it even.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
3:49 pm
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:24 pm
truthspitter
“Dude I know that shows how much of an idiot you are. Marvin makes 3 million less than Gerald Wallace and we have a $3 million trade exception quit trying to sound smart dummy”
Trade machine says Marv for Wallace won’t work!
It appears O’B is correct.
Actually it not only appears O’B is correct,
he is absolutey 100% Right!
Dude, who’s the dummy now?
Your parents are the dummies
Another GM
October 31st, 2010
4:30 pm
It was all Woody’s fault with Teague, what is the excuse now?
Another GM
October 31st, 2010
4:32 pm
There was NO motion in the offense last night that I could see. This is the same team from last year and there is no difference.
Freshfromatl
October 31st, 2010
4:49 pm
truthspitter,
You’re a idiot. You do know with those trades you proposed, the Hawks wins went down by as many as 10 right?!? So of you dudes love to fantasize. I wish ESPN would disable that damn trade machine!
Freshfromatl
October 31st, 2010
4:49 pm
*some*
J from the A
October 31st, 2010
6:14 pm
The “trade exception” is a colloquial term often used to refer to non-simultaneous trade traded-player exception.
If a team has a $3 million dollar trade exception, they have up to a year to use their trade exception. The trade exception can only be used in single-player deals, although there are ways to configure multiple single-player deals in order to legally trade for multiple players at once.
So, here would be a way to make the G. Wallace for M. Williams trade work:
First let’s just point out that Marvin’s salary is $6.7 million and Gerald Wallace’s is $9.8 million, roughly a $3.1 difference. In a simultaneous trade, a team can trade for 125% of player’s salary. This means that Marvin could be straight-up traded for a player valued $8.375 million. To make a trade for Gerald Wallace, we would need to trade at least (approx.) $7.9 million in salaries.
Now, let’s assume that the Hawks would not be willing to trade one of their $1.2+ million scrubs (e.g., Jason Collins’ salary would match up perfectly) in addition to Marvin for Gerald Wallace. How could the Hawks pull this trade off?
(1) Find a team that has a player making somewhere between $1.2-$3 million dollars that the team would be willing to give up (perhaps the team is about to cut the player or they need a trade exception of their own to complete another deal). Hawks give their trade exception for this player.
(2) The Hawks trade Marvin Williams plus trade-exception acquired scrub for Gerald Wallace.
To any casual observer, it would look like a 3-way deal involving multiple players, but on paper, it would be two separate trades: One would be an exchange of the trade exception for some scrub. The second trade would be Marvin and scrub for Gerald Wallace.
So, if the Hawks (and the Bobcats of course!) really wanted to make a Williams for Wallace trade, they could probably make it happen. (It would simply be dependent on some team being willing to give away a $1.3-3 million scrub, which doesn’t seem too unlikely.) So, the real question becomes not whether the trade is possible, rather: Why would both the Hawks and the Bobcats want to make the trade?
terrell
October 31st, 2010
6:25 pm
Why would Charlotte give up Wallace for Marvin?
Big Ray
October 31st, 2010
7:03 pm
Marvin is part of the core. The core shall not be traded. That is all for now.
Seriously, I figured some trade Marvin stuff would come up if he didn’t sustain some momentum. I wouldn’t be looking for it to happen anytime soon, people…especially not with that contract.
J from the A
October 31st, 2010
7:32 pm
Yeah, just to clarify, I don’t think we should be shopping Marvin either. The scenario I detailed above was simply an illustration meant to show that one does not have to be too creative in order to legally make a Williams-for-Wallace trade work.
I think Marvin is going to have a solid year. (Of course, ’solid’ is probably not good enough for most Marvin-haters …)
Ramon
October 31st, 2010
7:34 pm
Big Ray, it will be hard to move Marvin for a quality player. Marvin could probably be traded for someone like Troy Murphy. But with the play of Powell, would that trade make any sense for the Hawks? Everyone wants to trade Marvin for another team’s first or second best player, that’s not going to happen.
Sam
October 31st, 2010
7:54 pm
was at the game. good game. Mr Wall is handful. He will be tough to contain as the season goes on. Hawks played down to the wizards. I see avery few teams which would create problems for atlanta as the season goes on…
Great atmosphere at the game although it was not a sold out..
Astro Joe
October 31st, 2010
8:24 pm
A PF who averages 15/10 and shoots 40% from 3 isn’t a quality player? Wow! When you’re team is undefeated, why is there all of this talk about trading one of the core players? Our core is perfect… just like our record.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
8:40 pm
“But with the play of Powell, would that trade make any sense for the Hawks? ”
Are you trying to imply that Powell has played well? That’s not what I saw last night…
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
8:45 pm
As much as I’d love to move Marvin for Gerald Wallace, Troy Murphy, Carmelo Anthony, 1992 Michael Jordan, etc. y’all have to realize 2 things:
1. Thanks to the genius known as Rick Sund, Marvin is the only SF on this team. If the Hawks trade Marvin, they better get a SF in return. So you can effectively rule out any trade for someone like Murphy who wouldn’t play the 3.
2. Marvin has 4 years and $30 million left on his contract. If someone is going to take on that much money for a mediocre player leading into a year when there may possibly be a lockout and/or a new CBA, they are going to want to give up mediocre and overpaid players of their own. If you are proposing a Marvin-related trade and you don’t have the Hawks taking back an equal amount of crap, you’re deluding yourself.
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
8:58 pm
A compelling argument to contradict our biases (including mine) about the Hawks poor playoff performance.
“All of these numbers tell a similar story… Being swept is not a catastrophic blow that causes a team to fall off a cliff, or makes them instantly disappear from the playoffs. In fact, while teams do tend to gradually decline after a sweep, their future conference championship prospects are not all that distinguishable from the future 3-year probabilities for any 53+ win team (20% in year+1, 18% in year+2, 15% in year+3).”
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7990
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
9:15 pm
Several points:
(1) truthspitter – My parents are dead.
O’B is still correct & you still cannot trade;
Marv for Wallace straight up!
(1-b) t-spit: I would exchange retorts with you except
I just realized you’re a little boy.
(2) Freshfromatl – What’s wrong with the trade machine?
I just used it to prove t-spit wrong,
concerning his propasaal!
(3) Troy Murphy could play with Josh & Al due his ability
to space the floor on offense.
(4) Jason Collins cannot be included in any trade;
@ least fo the time being, I do not know how long. [CBA]
Same for Etan and Josh Powell or any FA signed this summer.
[including Joe]
(5) Is Gerald Wallace available?
Ramon
October 31st, 2010
9:24 pm
Astro, I didn’t say Troy isn’t a better player, or that he’s not better than Marvin. My point is right now we have 3 power forwards on the roster (Josh, Al, Josh). Al is supposedly due to get more minutes at PF this season, while LD has also stated that Powell will be seeing minutes each night also. So I don’t know if adding another PF, when we only have one undersized Evans to play the SF position, would be best for this team.
Ramon
October 31st, 2010
9:26 pm
The Jazz are handing it to Okla. City tonight. Utah has 31 assists compared to just 9 of the Thunder.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
9:38 pm
Grandad I apologize for the idiot comments about your parents but I stick to the fact that we need to trade Marvin.
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
9:59 pm
Mo Evans as Rick James
http://plixi.com/p/54256686
Jedi Falcon
November 1st, 2010
2:55 am
Im on the Twitter: @jedifalcon1
hawks_4_life
November 1st, 2010
4:05 am
Jedi give us a good reason to follow you on twitter other than you very pessimistic view of the hawks.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
November 1st, 2010
5:14 am
@ hawks 4 life LOL I know right?
terrell
November 1st, 2010
6:11 am
“Blazers will not extend center Greg Oden making him the 2nd #1 overall pick not to get an extension. Kwame Brown being the other. Can you say Bowie over Jordan times 2? lol! Coulda had Durantula. Fools!
O'Brien
November 1st, 2010
7:18 am
terrell,
Go easy on the Blazers. Oden was supposed to be the next really good center. And who passes on a really good center for a SF/SG, plus they already had Roy.
truthspitter,
Even if the Hawks wanted to trade Marvin, he has 4 years, $30 mil left on his contract. Nobody wants him for that price, unless Hawks take back a bad contract.
I am surprised we havent had a Rod from CP sighting. Marvin’s first game was really good, but his second game was just ok, and his third game was even worse than his second.
With no LeBron to guard tomorrow night, I would like to see a big game from Marvin against Cleveland.
nes
November 1st, 2010
8:09 am
TO JAMILLION: You answered your own question in your blog in regards to my blog on big center, Miller would have been the best choice with his scoring ability mixed in! The point was they needed a one to two year fill-in for now and if they had drafted a project. Hawks didn’t have any money left to spend without going into luxury tax situation from signing iso-joe for 123 million, so the next best answer would have been center Whiteside with 2nd round pick. Yea, it would have been a roll of the dice if Whiteside would have panned out to be a good center, but what the heck, Pape Sy wasn’t on any team’s draft board so why waste a 2nd round pick when Hawks could have signed him as a free agent! anyway, just my opinion anyway, just like yours!
terrell
November 1st, 2010
8:25 am
Obrien, you mean just like Marvin was supposed to be the next Great SF? lol! Just think, they could’ve had Roy and Durant, not just Roy. Miller/Roy/Durant/Aldridge woulda been scary. Oh well, at least it wasnt the Hawks this time. lol! Most people say Marvin over Paul and Williams was the worst pick by BK, but Shellhead over Roy, Gay, and Rondo still gives me nightmares. lol! Heck, at least Marvin can play(a little). And I know, I know, we already had Joe and Marvin, no need for Roy or Gay. lol! And btw, I wonder how Charlotte fans feel about Jordan taking Adam “how in the heck did I get a Ring” Morrison at #3 that year? lol!
terrell
November 1st, 2010
8:37 am
“Who passes on a really good center for a sg/sf”? Let me guess. Answer #1. Billy Knight. Answer #2. Rick Sund.
~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478 Westside Macon)
November 1st, 2010
8:48 am
move JJ up to the 3…start Jo. Crawford at SG.
Bench Marvin, Trade Marvin, let him be one of the guys who comes in and mops up sweat off the floor…..anything
terrell
November 1st, 2010
8:48 am
I wish LD would give JC2 a little burn. See how he reacts. He showed some flashes in the preseason. I think he earned at least some spot min here and there. Try him at point if you have to. If it doesnt work, put him back on the bench. Simple. Just because he’s a rook dont mean he cant ball. Come on LD, dont be like your eyebrowless predecessor. lol! Btw, has Teague Earned his min’s? Eveybody used to say it when Woody used to start Marvin, regardless of how he’d been playing, so why arent they saying it now? Just sayin.
terrell
November 1st, 2010
8:53 am
And I’m not bashing Teague. Just making a point.
Grandad
November 1st, 2010
9:08 am
truthspitter
Not a problem.
I know you mean’t no harm.
I’ve looked @ every feasable way of trading Marv.
I cannot see a way to get value for value.
He’s young [a good thing] but has a bad contract.
On the plus side | he’s an above avg defender.
Those contracts are boogers to fool with. [CBA]
If we could trade Marv…..
*we need a Big.
That’s the 9,864th time I’ve posted that last remark.
yessir
November 1st, 2010
9:12 am
Fire LD
JeJe
November 1st, 2010
9:21 am
FIRE SUND
Westurd
November 1st, 2010
10:04 am
Fire JeJe
JJ
November 1st, 2010
10:13 am
Fire Woody!!!
Sorry. I’m a little late to the party!
hawks_4_life
November 1st, 2010
10:16 am
I find it hard to understand some of these posts, it feels like the sky is falling. Woe is me, we are 3-0, we suck, fire L.D.? Are you serious? How can we expect the team to change its culture when we cant change ours? Misery love company I guess thats why the blog is so quiet, everyone is waiting for the first loss to rip the team.
truthspitter
November 1st, 2010
10:26 am
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=22vkfkb
Marvin Williams and Zaza for Hedo Turkoglu and Robin Lopez maybe add a 2nd round or 1st round pick if push comes to shove.
Why Phoenix does this because they save over $4 million over life of deal and they pick up a 1st rd or 2nd rd pick. Plus Hedo is more overpaid than Marvin for what he is currently giving.
Why Atlanta does this because Hedo is no worse than Marvin and Lopez is a legit 7 ft starting level C for years to come his upside and potential with this team is greater than Zaza’s. We pay $4 million more over the life of contract and potentially give up a pick but I think it is worth it considering the Hawks seem incompetent when it comes to drafting there own big man.
Lastly, before guys say oh Phoenix wouldn’t do that you have to look at the fact that Phoenix gains financially and picks wise. Add that Phoenix is probably not even a playoff team this year and this has a chance
hawks_4_life
November 1st, 2010
10:57 am
The Miami Heat have their own tab on the ESPN/NBA called heat index. Are you kidding me? They are just another team like every other yet some how they are already granted greatness, how funny. No wonder everyone hates the heat.
ILL-Logical
November 1st, 2010
12:00 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/31/AR2010103103854.html?hpid=moreheadlines
Intersting.
ILL-Logical
November 1st, 2010
12:01 pm
*Interesting*
O'Brien
November 1st, 2010
12:45 pm
terrell,
At least Portland took the chance to draft a center. The 2 hardest positions to fill are PG and Center. Its hard to blame them for taking a guy who was supposed to be the next good young center.
BK passed on 2 PGs for a SF, despite the fact that SF is one of the easiest positions to fill. And despite the fact that we badly needed a PG. So BK definitely takes the cake.
Speaking of Marvin, this was Al Thornton in the Washington Post link that ILL-Logical posted.
“I just need to show people that I can be one of the top players in this league at my position. That’s my whole thing. I love the game and I just want to be recognized as one of the top players in the game, period.”Al Thornton .
I know talk is cheap, but has Marvin ever expressed a desire or the drive to be the best? Or to even be an all star?
i_am_soulstar
November 1st, 2010
12:50 pm
OB,
I don’t think Marvin even sees himself as much more than a glue guy.
Mike is back
November 1st, 2010
1:05 pm
One reason its so quiet, is because most the blogs are getting eaten up…I gave up trying the last couple of times.
lewis
November 1st, 2010
1:41 pm
yeah this forum is operating terribly
Astro Joe
November 1st, 2010
1:44 pm
Marvin generally talks in terms of team… he being the starter on a squad that has averaged 50 wins the last 2 seasons and is currently undefeated. Thornton talks about himself… can someone give me some stats about the success of his previous teams? I’ll hang-up and listen.
And yes, 2 of Marvin’s 3 games have not been very good this season, but please, let’s not put him in the same sentence with Al Thornton.
Ken Strickland
November 1st, 2010
2:25 pm
OBRIEN-place the blame for us not drafting a top quality PG where it belongs. it was Woodson, not BK, that made public his doubts about both DWilliams and CPaul’s ability to be successful at the NBA level. The man has even spoken out and acted out about PG’s he’s actually drafted.