Atlanta Hawks: Hawks 99, Wizards 95
Iso-Joe was OK tonight. (Hyosub Shin/ hshin@ajc.com)
– The Hawks are 3-0. Whatever their flaws, they can can take comfort in the fact that they have J.J. and Jamal to make something happen when all else fails.
– J.J. wasn’t hitting early, even when he went to the basket. Then he went off for 14 points in the fourth quarter. “He’s our guy,” L.D. said. “We rely on him a lot down the stretch. I told him I don’t want him to get discouraged. We put the ball in his hands at the end of games.”
– Joe made two iso jumpers that gave the Hawks the final spark they needed. “Joe Johnson hit some tough shots tonight,” Wiz rookie John Wall said. “That’s why he got paid this summer.”
– The Hawks called it a sellout at Philips but the seats weren’t full. Still, it was a pretty good crowd that stayed into it even when the Hawks were dragging. Said J.J.: “It was great to see everybody come out and show their support. We appreciate that.”
– The Hawks wouldn’t have been in position to win if Jamal hadn’t kept them above water in the first half. He had eight points as Atlanta’s bench scored 18 of 26 points in the second quarter and helped limit the Wizards to 13. Jamal will always attack with that floater.
– “‘Instant offense’ Jamal,” Al said. “We have to come up with a nickname for him. That might be a Twitter thing I do. Every time he comes in, he changes the game. We’re lucky to have him.”
– There was a Twin sighting, too. He had a pass go through his hands for a turnover soon after he checked in but quickly made amends. He blocked Andray Blatche’s shot to start a fast break that ended with a layup by Jamal, then harassed Blatche into a miss and followed with a jump shot to tie it at 40-40.
– “We’ve got to provide a lift,” Jamal said of the bench. “We want to push the tempo and get some easy baskets. If our starters are in a funk, we’ve got to get them back on track.”
– After facing two opponents with little post presence (thanks to injuries to Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph), the Hawks were bothered by Washington’s length. Early on all that size packed into a zone had Atlanta taking a lot of jump shots.
– The Wizards bring in waves of athletic bigs. They had 13 blocked shots with JaVale McGee’s eight leading the way. One time Joe missed a layup because McGee was standing nearby.
– “It’s tough,” Al said. “They got to a couple shots I didn’t think they could get and McGee went up and go it. That’s impressive. Those are the teams where you have to go strong to the basket. We did a better job of that in the second half.”
– McGee also threw down a ferocious dunk on Smoove (Al got the heck out of the way). He is a big, athletic dude.
– Another double-double for Al. He made a baseline jumper and then threw down an alley-oop from Smoove to give the Hawks breathing room late.
– L.D. kept urging Teague to use picks and go at the hole. He obliged, though he had trouble finishing among all those big bodies. His jump shot remains a liability.
– At one point in the fourth, L.D. played Bibby and Crawford together with Joe at small forward and Powell and Zaza in the frontcourt.
– Wall brought the Wizards back at the end of the third by scoring 11 points in a row. The Hawks gave him jumpers in the fourth, which is the book on him, and he made 4 of 5. “He’s a blur out there,” Smoove said. “When he’s finishing at the rim and making shots, he’s real tough.”
MC
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122 comments Add your comment
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
11:33 am
Ree Roe
October 31st, 2010
11:02 am
@ truthspitter, those 3 trade suggestions are terrible. Bobcats wouldn’t trade Wallace for Marvin & Captain Jack needs the ball to much to be effective. I’m all for improving the team, but if we trade Marvin it needs to be for a bonafide defensive stopper/3 pt specialist
-REEview it Roe!!!
Your opinions mean nothing and show how ignorant you are. You could always throw in a pick or the trade exception to make it sound better and people are always talking about what another team would not do until someone trades Pau Gasol for his brother and a bunch of nobodies and some picks. Or someone refresh me on what Orlando gave up to get Vince Carter again? Courtney Lee and some other things that noone remembers. Seriously I hope Sund has more creative spirit than you dudes.
TigerWoods
October 31st, 2010
11:38 am
why did my comments in the last blog come under review by moderator? I don’t know, i mean i didn’t start anything or use incorrect language or anything
Any way, good start for the Hawks, just a Hawks fan here, but guess I aint welcome when i get censored.
Sautee
October 31st, 2010
12:16 pm
truthspitter,
If we are making ANY trade, then it should be for a starting caliber PG who can play D, which is our most obvious weakness.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
12:17 pm
I am very unhappy with the way Sund is handling personnel issues. He sets the market for Marvin and overpays him because noone else even cared to make a pitch because everyone knows this guy is basically a bust. On the other hand, he is most likely trying his best to lowball Al which will probably result in him hitting the open market where Sund will have to overpay. Give the guy 5 year $65 to $70 million and move on.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
12:21 pm
Sautee
October 31st, 2010
12:16 pm
truthspitter,
If we are making ANY trade, then it should be for a starting caliber PG who can play D, which is our most obvious weakness.
I disagree. Teague will be a quality starter that does something well on the regular before Marvin will be. Why are you so ready to give up on Teague as opposed to Marvin? SF is one of the most productive positions in the league and we have a dud at that position. Bibby contributes just fine on a regular basis. Bibby makes shots the overwhelming majority of the time and Marvin does nothing well the majority of the time.
darrell starks
October 31st, 2010
12:29 pm
MARVIN 0 POINTS
AL THORNTON 24 POINTS
WHAT A BUST.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 31st, 2010
12:39 pm
From what i have seen so far LD coaching have been pheonomal great job LD, coach understand that marvin will never be better he is basically a liability on the team with no fire.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 31st, 2010
12:43 pm
Marvin atleast play defense and get more rebound, i never see marvin playing inside 2 fight for more rebounds, all he do is stand around the three point line waiting for a shot.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
12:59 pm
I stand corrected. Ramon is right. Arenas is the most overpaid. Eddy Curry is probably #2 with Rashard at #3.
Jody
October 31st, 2010
12:59 pm
MC,
Any word on the possible extension for Al Horford?
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
1:01 pm
Rev in Tampa, that post was more about Jedi Falcon’s stupid post than about the Falcons. I could have used any team to make my point, but I picked the Falcons because he mentions them in his screen name.
I.MUS WRITE
October 31st, 2010
1:02 pm
Not again this year……. Do we really expect Marvin to be any better- ABSOLUTELY NOT. 12/5 is what we’ll get this year. This guy is an overpaid role player who will occasionally give you 20 plus points. Cpt Jack/ GWallace …I would be suprised if we could get boris diaw for Marvin-I used to get pissed because we wasted a pick on marvin but im over it-My stomach turns when i see guys like JJ Hickson a 2nd round pick steadily getting better………………Vomit
Joe C.
October 31st, 2010
1:04 pm
Yea that John Wall guy really sucks
I.MUS WRITE
October 31st, 2010
1:04 pm
falcon jedi- I see you’re looking for attention on the Hawks MB now………….dont feed the stray dogs they’ll go away
cp
October 31st, 2010
1:15 pm
I know its early in the season but seriously how much longer will there be excuses for Marvin. Dude just does not have it. I would love to move Marv for Battier. At the end of the day Marvin has to show that fire and it just aint in him. Its time to stop the excuses for this dude and just chalk it up that he is what he is, an average player.
KevinM
October 31st, 2010
1:24 pm
The Hawks are who we think they are….
-We know they have talent
-We know that they have gotten better every year
-We know what to expect from the starting lineup.
-We know Smoove still wants to play face-up a few times/game. Looks like he is forcing it at times.
What we don’t know if how much the bench can help on a regular basis. So far, they have been panning out on the positive side. Collins, Zaza, Powell and JC1 have already had good moments.
I am still waiting on Teague to get his game together…
I still would like to see where JC2 can actually contribute; perhaps less minutes early for Joe?
It does appear that if you are beyond the 10 man roster, you won’t see much time, because there just arent enough minutes to give out when you are trying to sustain or recover a lead.
A good start for LD and the troops; I can see the season going like this all year heading to the playoffs. That’s where anything we have battled over will be played out.
Perhaps we start competing against Orlando and play the rest like we always have…..that should put LD in a good spot for the postseason.
I still wish Sund could blow us all away with a strategy to take this team a notch higher…….wishing, waiting……oh well, there’s always hope and change. Wouldn’t it be something if we could have 3 represent at all -star weekend?
KevinM
October 31st, 2010
1:28 pm
Where do you guys go to get up-to-the day stats on the Hawks? Looks like nba.com doesn’t have anyone working on the weekend…..
I want to see how the balance of power/distribution is going after Week 1…..much appreciated.
O'Brien
October 31st, 2010
1:50 pm
“Your opinions mean nothing and show how ignorant you are. You could always throw in a pick or the trade exception to make it sound better…” truthspitter .
You are accusing people of being ignorant. But yet you did not know that you cannot add the player exception to another player.
Trade exceptions can’t be added to anything . A team can acquire 125% of the salary they trade away (in a simultaneous trade). So if they have a $10 million player, he can be traded for up to $12.5 million in incoming salary. If they also have an outstanding trade exception for $5 million, they can’t add it to the $12.5 million in order to acquire a player making $17.5 million. The trade exception can only be used to acquire a player or players making the amount of the exception or less (plus a $100,000 fudge factor)..
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=14923
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
2:26 pm
O’Brien
October 31st, 2010
1:50 pm
“Your opinions mean nothing and show how ignorant you are. You could always throw in a pick or the trade exception to make it sound better…” truthspitter .
You are accusing people of being ignorant. But yet you did not know that you cannot add the player exception to another player.
Trade exceptions can’t be added to anything . A team can acquire 125% of the salary they trade away (in a simultaneous trade). So if they have a $10 million player, he can be traded for up to $12.5 million in incoming salary. If they also have an outstanding trade exception for $5 million, they can’t add it to the $12.5 million in order to acquire a player making $17.5 million. The trade exception can only be used to acquire a player or players making the amount of the exception or less (plus a $100,000 fudge factor)..
Dude I know that shows how much of an idiot you are. Marvin makes 3 million less than Gerald Wallace and we have a $3 million trade exception quit trying to sound smart dummy
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
2:54 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Blog Master: what did say that you don’t like?
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
2:55 pm
* what did I say that you don’t like?
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:24 pm
truthspitter
“Dude I know that shows how much of an idiot you are. Marvin makes 3 million less than Gerald Wallace and we have a $3 million trade exception quit trying to sound smart dummy”
Trade machine says Marv for Wallace won’t work!
It appears O’B is correct.
Actually it not only appears O’B is correct,
he is absolutey 100% Right!
Dude, who’s the dummy now?
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:32 pm
* We need to re-sign Jamal * {{{read on}}}
A fundamental truth about the Orlando Magic.
Dwight Howard might need a sidekick who can create his own shot consistently.
“We don’t have the great one-on-one players.”
-[Orlando Sentinel]-
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:39 pm
***above quote…^…Van Gundy…^…***
*[“We don’t have the great one-on-one players.”]
* -Stan Van Gundy-
(reprinted for your convenience)!
O'Brien
October 31st, 2010
3:40 pm
truthspitter,
Why can’t you respond without the name calling? Did you read the entire paragraph, or click on the link?
If they also have an outstanding trade exception for $5 million, they can’t add it to the $12.5 million in order to acquire a player making $17.5 million. .
So with Marvin making $3 mil less than Gerald Wallace, we CANNOT add the exception to Marvin’s salary to make it even.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
3:49 pm
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
3:24 pm
truthspitter
“Dude I know that shows how much of an idiot you are. Marvin makes 3 million less than Gerald Wallace and we have a $3 million trade exception quit trying to sound smart dummy”
Trade machine says Marv for Wallace won’t work!
It appears O’B is correct.
Actually it not only appears O’B is correct,
he is absolutey 100% Right!
Dude, who’s the dummy now?
Your parents are the dummies
Another GM
October 31st, 2010
4:30 pm
It was all Woody’s fault with Teague, what is the excuse now?
Another GM
October 31st, 2010
4:32 pm
There was NO motion in the offense last night that I could see. This is the same team from last year and there is no difference.
Freshfromatl
October 31st, 2010
4:49 pm
truthspitter,
You’re a idiot. You do know with those trades you proposed, the Hawks wins went down by as many as 10 right?!? So of you dudes love to fantasize. I wish ESPN would disable that damn trade machine!
Freshfromatl
October 31st, 2010
4:49 pm
*some*
J from the A
October 31st, 2010
6:14 pm
The “trade exception” is a colloquial term often used to refer to non-simultaneous trade traded-player exception.
If a team has a $3 million dollar trade exception, they have up to a year to use their trade exception. The trade exception can only be used in single-player deals, although there are ways to configure multiple single-player deals in order to legally trade for multiple players at once.
So, here would be a way to make the G. Wallace for M. Williams trade work:
First let’s just point out that Marvin’s salary is $6.7 million and Gerald Wallace’s is $9.8 million, roughly a $3.1 difference. In a simultaneous trade, a team can trade for 125% of player’s salary. This means that Marvin could be straight-up traded for a player valued $8.375 million. To make a trade for Gerald Wallace, we would need to trade at least (approx.) $7.9 million in salaries.
Now, let’s assume that the Hawks would not be willing to trade one of their $1.2+ million scrubs (e.g., Jason Collins’ salary would match up perfectly) in addition to Marvin for Gerald Wallace. How could the Hawks pull this trade off?
(1) Find a team that has a player making somewhere between $1.2-$3 million dollars that the team would be willing to give up (perhaps the team is about to cut the player or they need a trade exception of their own to complete another deal). Hawks give their trade exception for this player.
(2) The Hawks trade Marvin Williams plus trade-exception acquired scrub for Gerald Wallace.
To any casual observer, it would look like a 3-way deal involving multiple players, but on paper, it would be two separate trades: One would be an exchange of the trade exception for some scrub. The second trade would be Marvin and scrub for Gerald Wallace.
So, if the Hawks (and the Bobcats of course!) really wanted to make a Williams for Wallace trade, they could probably make it happen. (It would simply be dependent on some team being willing to give away a $1.3-3 million scrub, which doesn’t seem too unlikely.) So, the real question becomes not whether the trade is possible, rather: Why would both the Hawks and the Bobcats want to make the trade?
terrell
October 31st, 2010
6:25 pm
Why would Charlotte give up Wallace for Marvin?
Big Ray
October 31st, 2010
7:03 pm
Marvin is part of the core. The core shall not be traded. That is all for now.
Seriously, I figured some trade Marvin stuff would come up if he didn’t sustain some momentum. I wouldn’t be looking for it to happen anytime soon, people…especially not with that contract.
J from the A
October 31st, 2010
7:32 pm
Yeah, just to clarify, I don’t think we should be shopping Marvin either. The scenario I detailed above was simply an illustration meant to show that one does not have to be too creative in order to legally make a Williams-for-Wallace trade work.
I think Marvin is going to have a solid year. (Of course, ’solid’ is probably not good enough for most Marvin-haters …)
Ramon
October 31st, 2010
7:34 pm
Big Ray, it will be hard to move Marvin for a quality player. Marvin could probably be traded for someone like Troy Murphy. But with the play of Powell, would that trade make any sense for the Hawks? Everyone wants to trade Marvin for another team’s first or second best player, that’s not going to happen.
Sam
October 31st, 2010
7:54 pm
was at the game. good game. Mr Wall is handful. He will be tough to contain as the season goes on. Hawks played down to the wizards. I see avery few teams which would create problems for atlanta as the season goes on…
Great atmosphere at the game although it was not a sold out..
Astro Joe
October 31st, 2010
8:24 pm
A PF who averages 15/10 and shoots 40% from 3 isn’t a quality player? Wow! When you’re team is undefeated, why is there all of this talk about trading one of the core players? Our core is perfect… just like our record.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
8:40 pm
“But with the play of Powell, would that trade make any sense for the Hawks? ”
Are you trying to imply that Powell has played well? That’s not what I saw last night…
Najeh Davenpoop
October 31st, 2010
8:45 pm
As much as I’d love to move Marvin for Gerald Wallace, Troy Murphy, Carmelo Anthony, 1992 Michael Jordan, etc. y’all have to realize 2 things:
1. Thanks to the genius known as Rick Sund, Marvin is the only SF on this team. If the Hawks trade Marvin, they better get a SF in return. So you can effectively rule out any trade for someone like Murphy who wouldn’t play the 3.
2. Marvin has 4 years and $30 million left on his contract. If someone is going to take on that much money for a mediocre player leading into a year when there may possibly be a lockout and/or a new CBA, they are going to want to give up mediocre and overpaid players of their own. If you are proposing a Marvin-related trade and you don’t have the Hawks taking back an equal amount of crap, you’re deluding yourself.
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
8:58 pm
A compelling argument to contradict our biases (including mine) about the Hawks poor playoff performance.
“All of these numbers tell a similar story… Being swept is not a catastrophic blow that causes a team to fall off a cliff, or makes them instantly disappear from the playoffs. In fact, while teams do tend to gradually decline after a sweep, their future conference championship prospects are not all that distinguishable from the future 3-year probabilities for any 53+ win team (20% in year+1, 18% in year+2, 15% in year+3).”
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7990
Grandad
October 31st, 2010
9:15 pm
Several points:
(1) truthspitter – My parents are dead.
O’B is still correct & you still cannot trade;
Marv for Wallace straight up!
(1-b) t-spit: I would exchange retorts with you except
I just realized you’re a little boy.
(2) Freshfromatl – What’s wrong with the trade machine?
I just used it to prove t-spit wrong,
concerning his propasaal!
(3) Troy Murphy could play with Josh & Al due his ability
to space the floor on offense.
(4) Jason Collins cannot be included in any trade;
@ least fo the time being, I do not know how long. [CBA]
Same for Etan and Josh Powell or any FA signed this summer.
[including Joe]
(5) Is Gerald Wallace available?
Ramon
October 31st, 2010
9:24 pm
Astro, I didn’t say Troy isn’t a better player, or that he’s not better than Marvin. My point is right now we have 3 power forwards on the roster (Josh, Al, Josh). Al is supposedly due to get more minutes at PF this season, while LD has also stated that Powell will be seeing minutes each night also. So I don’t know if adding another PF, when we only have one undersized Evans to play the SF position, would be best for this team.
Ramon
October 31st, 2010
9:26 pm
The Jazz are handing it to Okla. City tonight. Utah has 31 assists compared to just 9 of the Thunder.
truthspitter
October 31st, 2010
9:38 pm
Grandad I apologize for the idiot comments about your parents but I stick to the fact that we need to trade Marvin.
The Truth
October 31st, 2010
9:59 pm
Mo Evans as Rick James
http://plixi.com/p/54256686
Jedi Falcon
November 1st, 2010
2:55 am
Im on the Twitter: @jedifalcon1
hawks_4_life
November 1st, 2010
4:05 am
Jedi give us a good reason to follow you on twitter other than you very pessimistic view of the hawks.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
November 1st, 2010
5:14 am
@ hawks 4 life LOL I know right?
terrell
November 1st, 2010
6:11 am
“Blazers will not extend center Greg Oden making him the 2nd #1 overall pick not to get an extension. Kwame Brown being the other. Can you say Bowie over Jordan times 2? lol! Coulda had Durantula. Fools!
O'Brien
November 1st, 2010
7:18 am
terrell,
Go easy on the Blazers. Oden was supposed to be the next really good center. And who passes on a really good center for a SF/SG, plus they already had Roy.
truthspitter,
Even if the Hawks wanted to trade Marvin, he has 4 years, $30 mil left on his contract. Nobody wants him for that price, unless Hawks take back a bad contract.
I am surprised we havent had a Rod from CP sighting. Marvin’s first game was really good, but his second game was just ok, and his third game was even worse than his second.
With no LeBron to guard tomorrow night, I would like to see a big game from Marvin against Cleveland.