Atlanta Hawks: Down to the wire for Al Horford extension
Horford trying to become third Class of '07 draft pick to secure extension.
One thing I’ve noticed about Al Horford when talking to him about his contract extension is he really doesn’t seem to get caught up in the particulars of agent Arn Tellem’s negotiations with the Hawks. That hasn’t changed now that there’s just one week left for an agreement to be reached.
Horford said the Hawks told Tellem they want to wait until the end of the week to meet about the extension. If no deal is reached by the end of business next Monday, then Horford would become a restricted free agent next summer once the Hawks extended him a qualifying offer by June 30.
“I kind of have thought this all along, but I think it really is going to come down to the last day,” Horford said.
Only two 2007 draftees have secured extensions so far: No. 2 overall pick Kevin Durant received a five-year, $85 million deal from Oklahoma City and Horford’s former Florida teammate and friend Joakim Noah, the No. 9 pick, got five years and $60 million plus incentives from the Bulls.
The actual value of extensions could change once the next CBA sets the new rules for contracts. Under the current labor deal, the Hawks can offer Horford an extension of up to five years and $82 million.
Meanwhile Horford, the No. 3 pick in the 2007 draft, said he’s not nervous or anxious about the approaching deadline.
“All I can focus on is playing,” he said. “Obviously, I hope we get it done. I can’t control that. They [the Hawks] want to wait until then, so that’s what we are going to wait until.
“I have always been that way when it is something outside of my reach, and I can’t do anything about it. All I can do is just keep going. I have always been like that with all aspects of my life. I just kind of leave it up to my agent and hopefully they can handle it. It is my business, but it’s not like I can make something happen.”
The advantage for Horford in securing an extension is that he wouldn’t be a free agent during what could be a lockout summer. Though the new CBA likely would affect the terms of his extension, at least he’d have a deal in hand once the season resumed. Otherwise, his options would be to play for Atlanta’s one year qualifying offer, sign an offer sheet with another team or negotiate an extension with the Hawks.
Horford said his representatives discussed the potential ramifications of the new CBA in regards to his situation. But that’s another thing he said he doesn’t worry about.
“I hope we can get it done,” he said. “I think that is the feel. I hope we can come to an agreement and when it comes to that point, it comes. I can’t get caught up in that. I really can’t. I think that is a natural thing for players to look ahead and freak out. But I can’t control it.”
Injury report
Pape Sy worked out on the court following practice. It’s the first time he’s been able to do so successfully since the start of training camp. He said he aborted an earlier attempt because his back was too sore.
Sy looked to be moving pretty well while shooting jump shots and playing some defense.
“It is starting to get better,” he said. “I can’t wait [to play]. It is a little bit [sore] but I try to play with it and come back as fast as possible.”
L.D. said Bibby (back) is not yet up to speed. He also thinks Teague’s sore ankle has prevented him from being aggressive since his return.
Jamal’s back tightened up so he didn’t participate fully in practice today.
“I’m trying to get my timing back,” he said. “I just need to get my health right.”
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206 comments Add your comment
lewis
October 26th, 2010
8:16 am
*mental inconsistency that is, only showing up for big games
Ramon
October 26th, 2010
8:30 am
?
JoBjo
October 26th, 2010
8:46 am
Big Al is gonna hafta figure out how to play Howard or it is going to be a long disappointing career for him. Unless the Hawks can bring in a big to do it for him or develop a team scheme that will contain D Howard. or we can hope Howard wants to come home and play in Atl one day!
vava74
October 26th, 2010
9:10 am
Blocks is just one defensive stat.
Brook Lopez can’t guard his own shadow and Bogut is a snail moving laterally.
All GMs and Coaches in the league consider Al a very good defensive player.
The only C against whom Al fares badly are Howard and Shaq and most of the time is because they receive a pass to foul at will.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:10 am
Al’s career ave is 12pts and last year Woodson increased Al number of total shots- season taken by 44 pct yet his percentage of completion only increase .026 pct for an average of 1 addition basket a game.
Al is not an offensive threat. No, not like Josh is. Josh’s athleticism gives him an incredible number of moves to the hole.
Al? just a mediocre face up jumper worth 12pts a game if you keep feeding him or he picks up some garbage baskets.
Al not only cant Play Howard (I agree JoBjo) but there is NO center in the league that horford shuts down defensively. I repeat there is NO center in the league that horford shuts down defensively.
Horfords best season in college was 13 pts per game. His woodson induced best season as a pro is 14 pts. His over all average and what you can expect in the normal flow is 12pts per game. Comparing his pro numbers and his college numbers I see Al is about as good as he gets. Hell never be an 17pts pergame shot blocking , lane controlling center. He is what he is . A blue collar worker, a power forward force by sunds cheapness to play out off position.
The fluke of his allstar addition is over this year and horford will join the long list of 1 time allstar additions that had mediocre numbers.
Sign and trade Al while some think he has value.
An no, his not in josh’s league.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:12 am
* hes not in josh’s league talent wise
never be a 17 pts per game center
dukester
October 26th, 2010
9:17 am
This seems to be a battle between Josh and Al. I mean who votes to sign and trade Al Horford? Let the votes begin then!!!!
My vote I say we sign and keep both of them.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:20 am
To say a center doesnt need to block shots or physically control the lane is like say steering doesnt need an axle.
The IQ of a blogger who thinks that you will win a championship with a center who is # 25 out of 30 teams with a block shot rating is very very low.
“All GMs and Coaches in the league consider Al a very good defensive player.”
Why dont you create you own facts LOL!
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.
Of the 30 NBA coaches 0 voted for him as a 1st or 2nd stinger All defensive player. In fact After all the voting was in Al received only 1 mention of consideration. NOBODY thought Al was a defensive impact.
Sadly he never will be.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:21 am
dukester Popularity doesnt win ball games!
vava74
October 26th, 2010
9:22 am
Ramon,
Last year Al hit consistently long distance shot. He had a bad night against Miami from the floor.
It’s a no contest since Josh misses that shot consistently, so when he takes them, its a mistake.
In relation to what you say about Josh and Al’s defense, you are wrong: Josh leaves his man too much and gets caught out of position many times. During next games look at the back door plays the opposing teams get and you’ll see that at least half of those plays the guy scoring is Josh’s.
Josh had a good game defensively against Bosh but collected only 2 or 3 rebounds. He is not a very strong man to man defender. He is improving but has a lot to learn, in particular, boxing out which is something he rarely does and stop trusting his athleticism so much.
Al is much more balanced defensively and you will see his blocks go up now that he does not have to switch in the perimeter every single play.
Al’s major problem is that he is a bit too nice down low.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:25 am
BTW
Among centers Al had one of the highest percentages for points allowed under the basket. Thats why so many coaches isolate AL under the basket.
Like MC said about the summer game. “other than Josh, nobody was protecting the rim”.
Its not als game to play defensive stopper in the paint and thats the kind of center the hawks will need .
Sorry if your hero is exposed .
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:28 am
Al is consistently a 12 pt career average with a 52 pct of scoring. thats about it. not much….else
Al can carry josh’s shoes offensively or defensively. Period.
Ry
October 26th, 2010
9:32 am
If Teague can’t beat out Bibby for the starting job, not sure he will ever be a really good pg. Maybe there was a reason that Woodson didn’t play him much….maybe he just isn’t that good. Sure he has speed and energy, but that doesn’t mean he can be a great player. On top of that, the season hasn’t even started and he is already injured.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:34 am
What the coaches did say was….
#1 defensive power forward in the NBA…Josh Smith.
#2 defensive PLAYEROVERALL in the NBA… Josh Smith
What the facts are
# 25 shot blocking center nba ….Al horford
No votes for 1st or 2nd team All NBA defensive team….Al horford.
Like MC said about the summer game. “other than Josh, nobody was protecting the rim”.
I guess Drew and Al are still running the switch….LMAO
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:35 am
co-sign Ry
vava74
October 26th, 2010
9:35 am
TS,
And what about Darryl Dawkins?
flyboyyschris
October 26th, 2010
9:37 am
keep the core to gather and hope for the best
Astro Joe
October 26th, 2010
9:38 am
T.S., try an apples-to-apples comparison. Wouldn’t it be far more logical to compare the resumes of Josh during the summer before his RFA year to Al the summer before his RFA year? Also, have you ever noticed that there are very, very few teams with 2 elite shot-blockers playing together? That’s because only one gets to provide weakside help. Al is this team’s version of Rick Mahorn… he plays great interior defense by disrupting the player’s go-to move. One more thing, the contract does not stipulate that Al must stay at center for the duration of the contract. It appears that you are confused about what the contract means. If the NBA adds a shortstop position, Al could be moved there. If they add a punter, Al can be moved there. Or, he could be moved to PF at some point. The contract would allow for a lot of flexibility.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:38 am
I love the chocolate thunder but my opinion of him is not going to make Al play defense!
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:40 am
Apples to Apples OK fair enough.
Ill compare power forwards to power forward and centers to centers.
4s to 4s and 5s to 5s
oranges to oranges
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:41 am
Gotta pay some bills boys Peace.
Go Hawks.
Truth-se rum
October 26th, 2010
9:43 am
Last word, even Al wants out of the center position for his sake and the hawks too.
Reid Adair
October 26th, 2010
9:47 am
I’m not surprised. The Hawks are broke after giving Joe Johnson a max contract; they had no money to get any significant free agents. Why would they have money available to give Al Horford the extension he deserves?
O'Brien
October 26th, 2010
9:55 am
Truth-se rum,
Do me a favor. When the Bulls won their championships with MJ, who was their starting center? Look it up and let me know.
I am looking forward to tonight when we will have basketball games to talk about.
Any predictions on the Heat and wins? I’m guessing 66.
Astro Joe
October 26th, 2010
9:58 am
Reid, Al’s raise would kick in next year (if he signs an extension), when Jamal’s contract expires.
KevinM
October 26th, 2010
10:22 am
LIke college, Al needs a sidekick to achieve. Smoove as a sidekick is not enough to work in the NBA playoffs.
I always said early in their career that Smoove and Marvin didn’t play well together. We are talking about 2 guys who have yet to solidify the term consistency. Smoove has made shot blocking an art but he has weaknesses in his 1/2 court offensive game. Marvin? You get sometimes good, sometimes not much. I think the trend continues because the head coach won’t make that much of a difference in his game.
But for Al and Smoove to stay together keeps this team limited in the playoffs. They need a valid defensive presence beyond these 2. And like Sund did with Smoove, he should wait out Al and let another team present an offer for the ASG to match if they want to keep him or lose him outright.
I always said the Brinks truck thrown at Joe will hamper all future salaries on this team. Should the cap continue to exist after the next CBA, it will be even be more severe depending on how they grandfather in the previous CBA salaries.
If you are a wise team owner, you would wait until the agreement is signed before adding to your salary commitments.
Truthfully, the only salary that made sense was the Smoove offer from Memphis. Aside of that, the rest of the team makes more than they would elsewhere.
I am all for Sund waiting this out on Jamal and Al and let them produce better team results before giving them security. We all know the limitations of this ownership group and chances are the team will be rebuilt many times before this ownership group gets it.
KevinM
October 26th, 2010
10:26 am
O’Brien, I say 60 wins is fair for this first year unit. The key to their success is whether they get the overall #1 seed.
The Hawks? I see a 4 or 5 seed this year if they struggle late in the year when the schedule gets tougher.
truthspitter
October 26th, 2010
10:43 am
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=24vmtsh
Great Trade:
Suns get: Mike Bibby, Zaza, Teague and 3 future 1st rd picks
Hawks get: Steve Nash, Robin Lopez
Nash is already making statements that suggest that he is not with this if it is going to be some type of rebuilding stuff.http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Steve-Nash-would-probably-pick-the-Suns-to-mis;_ylt=AoNgpOZ83Du2zlP7Sw_Ny2K8vLYF?urn=nba-279577
KevinM
October 26th, 2010
11:22 am
Article on where the Hawks stand going into this season:
Its about the defense and their need for major improvement……..
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlSdwnWFzMV5ZD7cwPiwumcQmNIF?slug=nba_com-numbers.game.questions-20101014
dukester
October 26th, 2010
11:31 am
Alex Ajinca he can be had for a bag of basketballs. 7′ 1″ and can play defense.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 26th, 2010
11:52 am
Too Fast – Too Furious!
Captain Smoove
Shoe Commercial
New Wife
That’s a lot of prosperity when you add the big contract Josh has gotten. Question is: Can Josh handle that much success all at once. Oh! Don’t forget a New HC too? Will Josh be out of control and uncontrollable this season?
Does Josh believe this is his team now?
Just sitting here listening to Beau Bock on 790 The Zone radio show and Beau is disgusted that Josh ran to the 3 point line, and shot a fade away 3 pointer with 19 seconds on the shot clock. Of course his shot clanked off the rim and LeBron grabs the rebound and ran down the court to miss a lay-up.
The Hawks rebounded and ran to half-court, when Coach called a T.O. Josh went to high-five Bibby and Bibby pushed Josh’s hand away in disgust!
Beau Bock (the owner of 790 The Zone), says, “The Hawks will never advance as a team with Josh doing his stupid things!”
Beau wonders if Hubie Brown was here, would he have sit Josh’s dumb azz down after such stupidity! Beau Bock asks, “What will it take to get through to this guy?” Anyone … Anyone?
Beau says, “If Al is smart, he is already looking down the road.”
Very interesting stuff there.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 26th, 2010
11:55 am
The Sum of it’s Parts!
This team as constructed will never defeat:
Boston
Magic
Heat?
In any seven game series! IMHO
GeeMack
October 26th, 2010
11:58 am
DON’T DO AL! If you ever wanted to win a championship don’t sign that extention. You will sentenced to mediocrity the rest of your career. You will put up great numbers and a few all star apperances, but never the gold trophy. Ask Dominique.
GeeMack
October 26th, 2010
12:01 pm
drmaryb (*_*)
I have to disagree drmaryb. If 2 of the big 3 from each team’s not healthy, then the Hawks can win a 7 game series against them. Even then it would go 7 games.
Outside of that I agree with you.
JoJo the Godfather
October 26th, 2010
12:18 pm
drmaryb…i agree with the “as constructed” statement, but (in my opinion) not because of Al or Josh…the problem to me lies with our starting PG, backup SF, backup PF, and backup C spots…If we could strengthen the defense provided from those 4 spots, then I believe the Hawks could compete with any team. If you take the $26.1M paid to Bibby, Jamal, Evans, Pachulia, Collins, Powell & Thomas, and pay some guys to play defense with it, then we’re a much improved team. Noone on that list is known for playing above average defense. Mo is the only guy that’s even had defense mentioned in the same breath with his name.
???? / Teague
Johnson / Jo Crawford
Marvin / ????
Smith / ????
Horford / ????
O'Brien
October 26th, 2010
12:22 pm
KevinM,
You raise a good point about how this team has been constructed (with Marvin and Josh maybe not being a good combination).
I made a similar point about our frontcourt on the other blog. I think ZaZa is a good backup center, but on this team, he is not the kind of backup we need. And I dont see how a frontcourt of Al, Josh, and ZaZa will win us a championship.
We dont have size in the front court, and we dont have the perimeter defense (unless Teague improves) to slow down penetration to help the frontcourt out.
O'Brien
October 26th, 2010
12:30 pm
Ramon,
This is from MC’s article (thanks nire);
Against the Heat, Smith launched a jump shot early in the game on a play that called for him to work in the post. He also attempted a 3-pointer late in the game.
Each time Smith takes a bad jumper, Drew is there to let him know about it. Smith doesn’t always appreciate the feedback.
“He snarled at me a little bit early in the game yesterday, but I was fine with it,” Drew said. “I want him to establish himself down low. I don’t want him to rely on making perimeter shots.”.
Sluggish Hawks lose to Bobcats
That is not what I want from my captain. He probably shoots close to 30% on his perimeter shots, but he insists on taking them.
How is he supposed to get on Marvin if Marvin takes a bad shot early in the shot clock? Just do what the coach says.
Ramon
October 26th, 2010
12:30 pm
DrmaryB, I tell you what. You name 3 players who do the things Josh does, and positively impact the game in as many areas as he does. And I’ll name you ten players who does what Horford does.
Ken Strickland
October 26th, 2010
12:31 pm
TRUTHSPITTER-Your latest trade suggestion demonstrates how little basketball insight you have. You’re so obsessed with trying to get everyone to believe the BS you conjure up about AHorford, you can’t see the total lack of common sense in most of your attempted justifications.
Otherwise, how would anyone with an ounce of common sense, logic and basketball insight suggest the Hawks trade AHorford, an All Star center in only his 3rd yr, who averaged 14.1PPG, 9.9RPG, 1.12BPG, 2.5APG, .73SPG and shot .551FG%, for a center that averaged 8.4PPG, 4.9RPG, 1.04BPG, 0.1APG, .20SPG, and shot .588FG%.
Are you really delusional enough to think acquiring RLopez, and the extra 2″ advantage he offers, would be more beneficial to the Hawks than the accross the board advantage in production Horford has over him? When you take into consideration the Suns were among the NBA leaders in points allowed, it would appear RLopez wasn’t doing all that much protecting, huh.
Come on TRUTHSPITTER, stop making a fool of yourself with these crazy, redundant, and often downright stupid comments and suggestions, particularly with it comes to AHorford.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 26th, 2010
12:33 pm
Gee Mack
If my Aunt were a man, she would be my uncle.
Don’t read between the lines and create scenarios …
I’m just sayin’ – all things equal? No, we don’t win!
Ramon
October 26th, 2010
12:33 pm
Grandad, the hardest part about doing a deal with Dallas is they have so many guards. And we have so many guards. So I don’t know who we’d be able to trade. They wouldn’t take Jamal because they have Terry. And their over the hump PG (Kidd) is way better than our over the hump PG. I couldn’t see them wanting to pay $2.5 mil for Evans. Do you think a 2nd round pick would be enough to pry away AA?
yodaddy
October 26th, 2010
12:34 pm
We are getting carried away here.
Josh Smith is easily a better player than Al Horford. Josh Smith was the biggest snub of the All Star team last year and he will make it this year while Horford is at home.
With that said, Horford is not a bad player either. The problem is that they have a complementary skill set yet play the same position. Josh Smith is defense and a stat sheet filler along with his athleticism. Al Horford can knock down jumpers and rebound well as well as being a floor general.
If Josh plays bad the team will lose every time while we can have Horford disappear and still win. Mainly because his contributions can be “made up for” by a collective of players. Josh Smith has a unique talent that is irreplaceable and highly valuable. He is the only player on the team that can will us to victory with his play. He is very much the spark plug. His defensive contributions make everyone better. If he was a better scorer he’d be LeBron James esque
The problem is that they play the same position. That’s why a center was and still is needed here. It does not even have to be a starter…jsut someone who can come in and provide rebounding and defense for a limited time every game…i.e. Erick Dampier/Tyson Chandler/Joel Pzybilla etc.
So in that case they must extend Al Horford, unless somehow they can bring a starting center in for him that can get a double double. And those aren’t sitting out there waiting to be picked up.
By the way if Detroit is looking to deal Tayshaun wouldn’t that be the perfect fit? Just saying.
Ramon
October 26th, 2010
12:40 pm
O’brien, you forgot to mention, that shot he early in the game he took against the Heat, he made. Also, if you subtract the shot attempts he’s taken with under five seconds on the shot clock, I would bet his percentage would be a lot closer to 37-40% on his perimeter shots. My only point is, who on the Hawks doesn’t take at least one bad shot a game. That’s my only point. And MC has done more than enough to prove that Smoove consistently hits those perimeter jumper in practice and in scrimmage. Sorry, but I wouldn’t mind Smoove take 2-4 perimeter jumpers a game. Because when he gets to the point where he’s making half of them, he’ll move to the top 3 PF’s in the league. Remember Garnett (nor McDyess) could make those jumpers early in their career either.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 26th, 2010
12:42 pm
Jump – Off!
Ramon said:
“DrmaryB, I tell you what. You name 3 players who do the things Josh does, and positively impact the game in as many areas as he does. And I’ll name you ten players who does what Horford does.”
What does that have to do with what I said:
“The Sum of it’s Parts!
This team as constructed will never defeat:
Boston
Magic
Heat?
In any seven game series! IMHO”. -drmaryb-
Ramon
October 26th, 2010
12:42 pm
One trade I wish could happen, would probably be Horford for Bogut. I would do that deal in a split second if Bogut showed he could play healthy for extended period of time. Other than that, you can’t trade Horford or Smoove. I’d trade Joe before trading either one of those two.
Section 303
October 26th, 2010
12:43 pm
yodaddy, what makes you so sure Horford will be home? Josh was snubbed last year, I agree. Horford made it in, though. Who’s to say he won’t again?
niremetal
October 26th, 2010
12:50 pm
KevinM’s right re: Marvin and Josh. Pretty consistently, the Hawks best lineups over the past few years have been with one of them on the floor and one of them off. If you look at 82games, all but two of the one-on-one-off lineups did better than the best of the both-on lineups, with the Josh-no-Marv ones being the best and the both-on being the worst. The year before, the Marv-no-Josh were the best and the poor performance of the both-on lineups was even starker: Our 4 best regular lineups by far were (in descending order, and excluding lineups that were used less than 50 minutes during the season):
Bibby-Murray-Johnson-Williams-Horford (69.2 W%)
Bibby-Johnson-Williams-Horford-Pachulia (68.1 W%)
Murray-Johnson-Evans-Smith-Pachulia (68.0 W%)
Bibby-Murray-Johnson-Smith-Horford (62.5 W%)
By comparison, the two most frequently-used Smoove/Williams lineups were:
Bibby-Johnson-Williams-Smith-Horford (46.8 W%)
Bibby-Johnson-Williams-Smith-Pachulia (47.6 W%)
Take from that what you will.
Ramon
October 26th, 2010
12:50 pm
Drmary, you think the Hawks were able to take Boston to 7 games, when Boston were clearly better than they are now. But a better Hawks team (now) wouldn’t be able to beat a Boston team that is worse now? I don’t understand the logic in that, to be honest. And the point I’m making is Horford is easily replaced in terms of production, compared to Josh. People said Horford wasn’t able to get many blocks last season because he was always switching. But if memory serves me correctly, wasn’t Josh in the same defense and always switching.
I think a lot of fans don’t even realize that the reason they see Josh make mistakes, is because they’re always watching HIM. On offense, you’re watching to see if Josh is going to go backdoor on the weak side for a lob. On defense, you’re looking to see if Josh is going to get in the passing lanes, or if he’s going to contest a shot. Because of his talent, he sticks out more than any other player on the Hawks team. And their have been many games where the entire starting lineup, except Josh, mailed in their efforts in the first half. I know you’ve seen games where Josh would have 8-12 points in the first two quarters, and that would be the only thing keeping the Hawks in the game. Because Joe wasn’t shooting well, and Horford couldn’t beat his man one on one.
That’s another thing. Offensively, Horford lacks quickness. He’s smaller than majority of the centers he face, yet he’s never able to beat them off the dribble. And you rarely see him spend baseline out of the post. Aside from jumpers, and fast break dunks. Many of Horford shots are contested.
Ramon
October 26th, 2010
12:54 pm
Section, if Lopez and Bogut stays healthy, it will be hard for Horford to return. Unless the Hawks have the 3rd best record in the east at the time.
GeeMack
October 26th, 2010
1:03 pm
drmaryb (*_*)
Please excuse my poor attempt to be sarcastic during my last comments, but I was actually agreeing with you.