Atlanta Hawks: How Rick Sund sees them
Sund changed his coach but not the core. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
When he was evaluating the Hawks at the end of last season, GM Rick Sund took a look at the other seven teams to play in the conference semifinals and did his own round-robin calculation.
The way Sund sees it–and he said most GMs look at it the same way–the elite teams are those that earn homecourt advantage in the first round and advance to the second round.
“When you get through that first round, that validates that you are an elite team,” Sund said. “Now what I do is I take the record of all the final four in one conference and the others and see how you do against each other. It’s a great barometer because you play 20 games against [common] opponents.”
So how did each team fare against the others?
The Cavaliers were 13-7.
“That’s an incredible record,” Sund said.
The Magic were 12-8, no surprise since they steamrolled through last two months of the regular season. The Lakers were 10-10. And the Hawks? They were 11-9 against Cleveland, Orlando, Boston, Utah, Phoenix, San Antonio and the Lakers.
So scored by Sund’s 20-game litmus test, the Hawks were third in the East behind Cleveland and Orlando, each of whim beat the Hawks three out of four during the regular season.
“We weren’t ready to advance in that second round against those teams, particularly one of those teams we went 1-3 against,” he said. “But that all goes into your [evaluation] of your club.”
The problem for the Hawks, of course, wasn’t that they couldn’t beat Orlando. It’s that they couldn’t compete with them. Clearly that’s the reason Woody is no longer the coach.
Sund could have gone further and sent away some players, too. But the 53 wins and the 11-9 record last season against the other teams Sund considered elite–while no reason to throw a parade–also helped convince him that dismantling the team would be premature.
He said he learned from Jerry West and Wayne Embry not to blow up a good core too soon.
“Fans may not understand and media certainly wouldn’t understand because they like the hype of all the moves in the summer,” he said. “But when you look at our club, we’ve got a pretty damn good club and a good nucleus given that we [operate] under the luxury tax.”
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
232 comments Add your comment
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
7:27 pm
Does sund factor in the intangibles to those wins and loses?
doc
October 20th, 2010
7:29 pm
ob
And for the record, Rick, I know its a business, but fans would prefer to be over the luxury tax, with better talent, and/or better depth.
succinctly put and i agree. does anyone know of a team that won the championship and was under cap since its inception? how many of the total if you found any?
rick is trying to blow smoke my way and cloud the real issues that werent addressed during the off season. only time will tell how important this oversight was on his and the askg. as a season ticket holder, i hope they knew what they were doing.
hoosier hawk
October 20th, 2010
7:35 pm
Yeah we beat elite teams in the regular season. We swept boston but look how they fared last year.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
7:41 pm
On the Cheap!
Boston don’t give a damn about the regular season!
Billy Knight said in his David Aldrige article I posted, that the ASKG, namely Belkin, was trying to run this team on the CHEAP!
Of all people, Billy would know!
ryan
October 20th, 2010
7:43 pm
Even if the Hawks are in lottery they screw that as well there has got to be something were we can throw ASG out .
bigdave
October 20th, 2010
7:45 pm
man.. im by NO MEANS a fan of the queen (hey, i hated Jordan as a child).. but some of his back lash is just plain uncalled for.
he “re-tweeted” if thats what you kids call it…( hehe.. talking to yall like im not half some of your ages)
“a big nosed big lipped bug eyed (racial slur). Ur greedy, u try to hide ur ghettoness.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5707475
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
7:45 pm
* correction: Billy said, Belkin was trying to operate on the Cheap, by suing to block that Joe for Boris + 1st Round trade … Sorry, don’t want Sautee to get me!
I’ll never win that fight! He He He … (see Ramon)
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
7:48 pm
Afro Power!
I wish we had Billy Knight still as GM.
That man made block-buster moves in his sleep!
One thing he could do was ship out bad contracts like nobody’s business.
He was no – Yes Man! That’s why they ran him outa’ here!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
7:52 pm
Ryan
We have too much talent to see the lottery.
Forget about it! Who wants to go back to winning 13 games!
yeah im not gonna lie
October 20th, 2010
7:54 pm
i post on this board all the time and i’ve not been to a game since the night of the ice storm in like 2000
darrell starks
October 20th, 2010
8:02 pm
EVERY THING IS OK, THE HAWKS NUMBER 1 DRAFT PICK NEXT YEAR IS MJ, o my bad that’s 1984.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
8:03 pm
“When you get through that first round, that validates that you are an elite team,” Sund said.
Wow. Is that arsenic you just slipped into the koolaid, or was it Sulfuric acid?
So, getting past the first round of the playoffs makes you an elite team. Can the BS get any deeper? Oh wait, it does…
“Now what I do is I take the record of all the final four in one conference and the others and see how you do against each other. It’s a great barometer because you play 20 games against [common] opponents.”
It’s a great barometer for what? What does this litmus test do? Does it project whether or not you’ll get swept in the 2nd round for the second consecutive year, and by a record number of points? What does this barometric reading have to say about the Boston Celtics? How does it explain them winning 3 fewer regular season games than we did, AND losing all 4 regular season matchups with us? How did they end up in the Finals?
I don’t think I can stand the stench of this filth any longer. But I’ll bet the ASG is sniffing it up like a heroin addict on a glass table.
darrell starks
October 20th, 2010
8:03 pm
My hawks prediction 37 wins 45 loss.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
8:05 pm
Good thing we got rid of Steve Belkin. He was trying to run this team on the cheap. Wait a minute….
Melvin
October 20th, 2010
8:10 pm
Look like the Hawks got rid of the three stiffs at the end of bench…
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Transactions_102010.html
Fundamentals
October 20th, 2010
8:10 pm
Proof that ASG and Sund are satisfied that we’re meeting their expectations. We’re “elite” to Sund getting blown out. Definite signs that Al might get an offer, but Crawford is on his way for nothing. We won’t enter the luxury tax for any reason and we’ll always have 20-30 million reasons why we can’t take the next step.
All achievement will come from organic growth, not from Sund or ASG.
lewis
October 20th, 2010
8:14 pm
Dallas is playing Orlando fine, tied at 45 at the half. Tyson Chandler hasn’t had any probs with Dwight and he can finish on him
rusty
October 20th, 2010
8:15 pm
everybody knows sund is imcompetent,always has been
Mystikal
October 20th, 2010
8:23 pm
It sucks that other teams got better and we just stood pat, but reaistically there wasn’t much we could do. There are only so many “great” players in the NBA and we don’t have one. But Joe Johnson is in the next tier (even though being paid like top 5) and Josh Smith has the talent to be in that second tier. A good coach with a solid game plan and a leader at the point guard spot could do wonders for this team. We’ll see what happens…
newkid
October 20th, 2010
8:24 pm
What a windbag. The nerve of this chump to invoke the logo’s name. Your trouble is that you Mr. Sund (along with your partners in mediocrity), unlike Jerry West, are perfectly comfortable settling for 5th or 6th fiddle, or worse. West won championships and built champions. You’re no Jerry West by any stretch of the imagination, and you clearly didn’t learn anything approaching enough from Mr. West. In fact, just what have you done of note?
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
8:24 pm
A White Christmas!
Like Cedric the Entertainer said:
“Well folks, looks like it’s gonna’ be another White Christmas.”
That’s where the poor kids dream of ginger bread and sugar plums, only to receive last years toys re-wrapped & cookies and milk. Mamma and Daddy, both got laid off again for the 10th time this year.
Oh well … It sux being me. (LOL!)
Who does Slick-Rick think he’s dealing with?
We are not the gullible fans, who can’t read or write.
cdog
October 20th, 2010
8:27 pm
HA, HA HA HA, RICK SUND A GM? WHAT A WASTE AND A JOKE.HA, HA, HA. AND HE HAS AN OPINION? HA, HA, HA
lewis
October 20th, 2010
8:31 pm
listening to the orlando commentators once again on NBA tv makes me wanna die
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
8:36 pm
Kobe said:
Aye Jerry … Get me some help or I’m walking!
Then, he got help! Gasol, et.al.
Al said:
Aye Rick …. Get Josh and Me some Help!
Then, he got a fart-rock! Etan, Powell, et.al.
Like The Electric Company: Jingle …
Which one of these things is not like the other?
Which one of these things is just not the same?
- sing-a-long -
Truth-Se rum
October 20th, 2010
8:46 pm
Rick Sund has left a trail of bad judgment and flaws strategies in his previous tenures as GM and has never won a championship. Google worst NBA GMs of all time and his name is a main stay.
The demise of this team which was headed in the right direction is directly attributed to SUND!
Fire Sund now!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
8:47 pm
Calling Rodman!
Calling Barkley!
Calling A.C. Green!
Who wants to be the next specialist?
That role player who starts no longer exist!
Kevin Love is doing it in Minnesota … Anyone? … Anyone?
There should be at least ten of these guys out here.
Rev in Tampa
October 20th, 2010
8:51 pm
I’m watching Orlando play Dallas since I get all the Orlando games in my market. They are making Dallas look worse than the score would indicate (Orlando is up by 11). But what is remarkable is that the Magic have so far sold out all of their PRESEASON games!!!
Orlando plays Miami in Tampa next week. I’m hoping they are already sold out in Tampa as well because I don’t have the money to go, but am very tempted.
Hawk n the Ham
October 20th, 2010
8:53 pm
This good ‘Core’ that he keeps referring to is Joe, Josh, and Al. That is only 3 players. What about the other 10 guys you give contracts to? Yes, the Hawks have a good core. But you have to add other talented players at the right positions to take advantage of this core he speaks so proud of.
Rick Sund you say that, “Fans may not understand and media certainly wouldn’t understand……”
Yes we do understand! It’s the ASG + YOU that talk through your teeth to the fans, telling us that you are committed to putting a championship caliber team on the court. When in the end, you do the bare minimal to just get by and be what you consider safe about it.
Hey Rick, congrats on that Bibby contract!
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 20th, 2010
8:54 pm
Man I’m sick of all this talk. Everything NBA related is starting to sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher.
Whatever to all this chatter. Let the actual season speak for itself. May the best team win.
Go Hawks!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
8:59 pm
Rev in Tampa!
Hey Rev! I know … We all gotta’ watch the disposable income – right?
Hey, I love that Tampa Bucaneer team down there with Josh Freeman @ QB.
Gruden still down there running that Cover – 2 Defense.
My 2nd favorite team to watch after my Falcons!
Go Bucs!
truthspitter
October 20th, 2010
8:59 pm
someone give me a Hawks ticket so I can whip my arse with it
truthspitter
October 20th, 2010
8:59 pm
I’m going to the Lowlight Factory to take a dump in the middle of the court
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
9:03 pm
To his credit, Horford has the frame to put on shoulder muscles
like Dwight. He should be in the lab.
Melvin
October 20th, 2010
9:07 pm
End of the 3rd qtr and the Magic are beating the Mavs by 19. Oh well, the Magic are killing everybody this preseason…
truthspitter
October 20th, 2010
9:07 pm
I’m convinced that the Hawks are a lottery team and I will say it now Perry Jones is our guy, he is a 6″10.5 SF he is a mixture of TMac, Anthony Randolph, and Durant. Still leaves us with no C, but I would rather have a Durant/TMac in his prime than Oden.
RealSquawk/Questionperson
October 20th, 2010
9:08 pm
I love how all of the espn speculative trades have the hawks winning less games.
I agree with everyone who is waiting for the season to begin.
And I will note that I think Miami does not match up well against any team that has more than two skilled big men. Chris Bosh is a tweener and when you look at Orlando and Boston they will completely eliminate his presence and pound the ball inside. (of course this won’t happen until the playoffs)
It is going to be a wonderful season if only because the Hawks will either be more competitive or back in the lottery. (There is no in between for this team)
And if they do end up in the lottery then all of this staying pat and developing the core will go out the window.
Who will get the blame for such a drop off? The coach?
what happens if players like josh, jeff, marvin, and al all show improvements, but joe falters. Hmmm??
Is that contract too big to trade? Is he too big to fail?
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
9:12 pm
” I would rather have a Durant/TMac in his prime than Oden.”
So would Portland.
O'Brien
October 20th, 2010
9:14 pm
Big Ray, .
So if the Bucks had somehow beaten the Hawks in the first round, I guess they would have been elite.
Doc, .
I wonder how many under the luxury tax teams have made the NBA finals? And from that, how many of them did NOT have a first team all NBA player?
The Pistons maybe? But they were coached by a HOF.
Melvin, .
I think the Magic have won like 20 preseason games in a row. Those guys do not lose in the preseason.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
9:17 pm
If Portland had hired the Tea Party to check Oden’s Birth Certificate?
They woulda known he was from Kenya, is Muslim and was born in 1941.
Their obvious pick woulda been Durant.
“The Curse of the Lottery”, strikes yet again.
PISTOL PETE
October 20th, 2010
9:19 pm
RICK SUND=ASG PUPPET!!!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
9:19 pm
…. And, he “Pals with Terrorists.”
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 20th, 2010
9:25 pm
Yep a lot of unanswered questions that will be answered as soon as the season gets underway, RealSquawk. Until then everyone is talking out the side of their necks.
blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda. yeah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Good to see Rick Sunds perspective on things though but still more talking and no action. So zzzzzzzzzzzz.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 20th, 2010
9:39 pm
“Section 303, LOL true, but by giving up carmelo the Nugetts are essentally waiving the white “we’re going to rebuild now” flag. They also get Jamal, Mo, JR Smith, and Kenyon Martin off the books the following season so they will be under the cap. We can throw in some draft picks as well so their fans won’t cry too loudly.”
Yeah, but they don’t get Marvin off the books. They are stuck with his underachieving azz for 4 years. That is the real deal breaker in that deal. It would be fantastic for the Hawks, but no way the Nuggets go for it.
Even with the much more plausible trade posted on the previous blog, where Horford + trash went to the Nuggets for Melo and Nene, the inclusion of Marvin would probably break the deal from Denver’s point of view. I honestly don’t think any team would be willing to take on Marvin unless they were going to give up an equally overpaid underachiever or a locker room cancer.
northcyde
October 20th, 2010
9:39 pm
Thanks Mr. Cunningham, for exposing Sund for the clueless idiot that he really is. Anybody who supports this dude after this article, will damn near fall for anything.
@ Big Ray . . . Sund IS Jim Jones from Guyana. He’s really trying to dupe people into believing that we’re some upper echelon team, and that most GMs think like him.
Like who, Rick?
Which GMs around the league are cool with making it to the 2nd round, then getting the hell beat out of them?
Utah? . . Phoenix?
WHICH ONES SUND?
And for those of you who keep saying that Sund will make a move . .
(( talking like Chris Tucker in Rush Hour ))
“Do yoooouuuuuu understaaaaaaand the woooorrrds that are coming out of his mouth?”
- he likes our core
- he thinks we’re elite
- he’s said we’re operatng under the luxury tax
What does that mean?
- no Melo trade
- no Jamal Crawford trade ( because they’ll only trade for another expiring contract, to keep from going over the tax. )
- no acquiring Dampier
- and possibly no Horford extension, seeing that they’re so reluctant to pay even a little of the tax. They’ll simply let the “marketplace” set Al’s contract. If it’s too rich, they’ll lt him go for a cheap player and picks . . or for a trade exception.
Sund’s definition of an “elite” team, is the most laughable thing I’ve seen all year. So I guess the Dallas Cowboys were elite last year too. They win their wild card game, get to the NFC “Final 4″ ( Divisional Playoffs ) . . . but get the score ran up on them by the Vikings.
I guess Jerry Jones was like . . . “Men, I know we got the hell beat out of us today, but we won our wild card game and got to the Divisional round. No matter what they say about us, that proves that we are an elite ballclub.”
Is that what you think Jerry said, Rick?
The “soundbites” from these clowns get worse and worse.
FIRE SUND
tyger
October 20th, 2010
9:41 pm
That’s fine for the casual fine, but for the die-hard, I didn’t re-up my season tickets. Why? Why should I? You didn’t do anything different, therefore, why would the outcomes be any different? You’re still not a contender, didn’t add significant BIGS, Boston did, and you still can’t compete with Orlando. Miami added Lebron, Wizards are back, Bobcats deeper – Hawks still the same… boring.
Jay from Decatur
October 20th, 2010
9:48 pm
Rick Sund needs to lay off the drugs. We won many of those 20 games because the other teams key players were playing hurt or not playing. The Hawks managed to stay healthy the majority of the season. That is going to be pretty hard to duplicate. I’m not trying to jinx the team but let Al or Josh go down for the season and were done. If Sund was a real GM he would have went hard at either Brendan Heyward who came at a decent price. He could have even saved face by giving Shaq the little change he wanted which would have helped AL and Smoove big time. Now every team in the East is going to pound the ball down our throat in the middle.. Way to go Rick and the ATL Spirit.
Steven A.
October 20th, 2010
9:49 pm
ONLY trade for melo if he signs an extension. Give up AL Horford, Jamal crawford, and a #1 for
Melo and Nene. That’s the only way the Nuggets would possibly deal with the Hawks.
Nene can guard any “5″ in the Eastern conference.
Melvin
October 20th, 2010
9:51 pm
They are showing the Hawk training camp on NBATV right now.
RealSquawk/Questionperson
October 20th, 2010
9:52 pm
Question Person or Questionself
northcyde
Who is the consistent factor in all of this? Not Billy, Woody, Sund, or Larry. The consistent factor in all of this is The ASG
Fire Sund?
Fire the ASG, but please keep the team in Atlanta!
Let us not fight the symptoms, but the causes.
Najeh Davenpoop
Get ready to jump on that Marvin bandwagon around All star time
bigdave
October 20th, 2010
9:54 pm
Magic was definitely making moves for something.. like a true get money dude, everything has a ticket if you want it you can have it.. lol, @ folks thinking dude was hurting for money… dont know what kinda debt or needs will have you selling million dollar assets like #2 pencils on test day. clearly he had a goal in mind..
NFL back to LA..