Atlanta Hawks: Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson on Hawks
Jackson and Van Gundy offered their takes on the Hawks.
Got on a conference call today with ESPN NBA analysts Jeff Van Gundy (who of course is the brother of Magic coach Stan Van Gundy) and Mark Jackson (who of course was a candidate to succeed Woody).
Asked both analysts if it is realistic for L.D. to mold this group into a championship-caliber defensive team. Here are their answers. . .
Van Gundy:
“Somebody has got to tell me what Mike Woodson did so wrong, No. 1. He took over a team that won [13] games, and he kept winning more and more and more. Sometimes you just get beat by better teams. Orlando swept them–and you can say the blowouts [were a problem]–but Orlando is a better team. That’s just how it is. If they fired coaches that got beat by better teams, a lot of guys would be fired.
“I watched the exhibition game last night with Orlando, and it looks like they are trying to install some Princeton-type of movement offense. Defense is really coach-based. It is influenced by personnel, but it’s more [about] what you believe in. Offense is a matter of going to your best strengths. To me, it remains to be seen if they can play well on the move. A lot of people said they isolated too much and it put pressure on Joe Johnson. It will be interesting to see when Teague gets back what he can give them offensively and if Jamal Crawford can repeat what he did.
“There will be limits to their team defense. They are a small, small, team. They are small at the point, small at center and small at power forward. I think they have overachieved dramatically.”
Jackson:
“They should be a playoffs basketball team, anything short of that disappointing when you look at what they’ve done the past few years. . . . As for getting better on defense, you certainly can do that if you have the mindset and across the board there is accountability and you are preaching and teaching it all the time. It certainly can be better. The schemes take away what the other team does effectively and you have the principles you go by as a team and you execute those principles. It will be interesting to see if they have the mindset and are willing to do that.”
MC
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192 comments Add your comment
Melvin
October 19th, 2010
2:59 pm
MC, they are saying the samething that many here and other b-ball analysis has said. You have to upgrade the personnel on this team to become a championship caliber team…
Melvin
October 19th, 2010
3:00 pm
Oh yeah, i will forgo my right to first so the next blogger can have it….
truthspitter
October 19th, 2010
3:12 pm
Yeah its good to see people speaking the truth about this team. I will not purchase a single ticket this year. I will enjoy them on TV the nights they are playing well but when it goes bad I will turn my head and find something else to do. No sense in getting depressed by having too much love for this garbage franchise. Much respect for Van Gundy in stating the truth this is not Woody’s fault Woody played to his strengths.
True Hawks Fan
October 19th, 2010
3:15 pm
Jeff Van Gundy always exagerates. He also said that the Heat are going to break the 72 win record and win the NBA Championship.
truthspitter
October 19th, 2010
3:17 pm
Josh Smith is basically Lamar Odom with far worse ball handling and better athleticism. Josh Smith either needs to be traded or moved to the bench as the 3rd big. Marvin Williams needs to be traded and someone needs to step up at PG. We really have 2 legit starters on this team. Joe Johnson at the SG or SF position and Al Horford at the PF position. We need a starting PG,C, and either SG or SF.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
3:17 pm
Great…two of the worst announcers in NBA history giving their take on a team they’ve seen play once or twice. National guys never know much about any team not named The Lakers, The Celtics, or (for this year) The Heat.
No surprise Van Gundy goes to bat for Woodson. Coaches always are apologists for other coaches. Coach Woodson is a great man, but anyone who watched that Orlando series knows he needed to go.
Starting to agree with Bill Simmons more and more….NBA coaches are not that important. Should bring back the player/coach.
True Hawks Fan
October 19th, 2010
3:23 pm
I co-sign with section 303. I liked Woodson as a person, but he got out coached against Stan Van Gundy. It’s preseason!!!
Melvin
October 19th, 2010
3:26 pm
I was hoping ZaZa would be allow to wear a pair of these sneakers this season b/c his vertical is terrible…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/NBA-bans-its-first-pair-of-shoes-due-to-unfair-?urn=nba-278191
tyger
October 19th, 2010
3:31 pm
A few questions:
1. Hawks did not upgrade personnel, why would outcomes be different?
2. Will Drew be given time to implement new system, if immediate results aren’t good?
3. Will players “buy in” to Drew’s system?
4. How much rope does Drew have? If they don’t defend, what can he do about it?
5. Chemistry matters. Bibby, Evans, Crawford all unhappy – are they onboard?
dap01
October 19th, 2010
3:33 pm
I love the Hawks and I have followed then EVERY day for the past 10 years. But after being a fixture in the lottery for years, can you believe how horribly constructed this team is? According to Jeff Van Gundy, we are small at pf, small at pg, small at c. Wow!
BBgenie
October 19th, 2010
3:36 pm
Damm Truthspitter, Keep your head UP!!!! It’s not that Bad! But if our Hawks don’t DEFEND we are not going anywhere. See that’s is what this Team will miss the most. Is Coach Woodson constant talk, focus & accountabilitly from the players on the Defensive end of the floor. Why do you think the players were SO! SO! SO! SO! Happy to hear LD being named HC??? He will not push them on the Defensive end of the court. We must have a HC who will ride/push Smooth & JJ. Remember these words “Defense Win’s you Homecourt advantgage” in the Playoffs.
BBgenie
October 19th, 2010
3:39 pm
Hire Woody Back! Quick!!!!!
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
3:43 pm
“They are a small, small, team. They are small at the point, small at center and small at power forward.” JVG .
Tell us something we don’t know Jeff?
Somebody said it on the other blog, and I tend to agree. After 5 years of Woody-ball (ISOs and switches), the players have been conditioned to play and react a same way.
Imagine if you were married to a certain type of woman for 5 years, but then you got a divorce. When you start dating again, wouldn’t it take some time and nurturing for you to change your bad habits, especially when its a girl you already know very well?
One thing that would have helped, is if ASG and Rick had brought in some new blood. LD will have to break them down before he can build them back up.
BigTimeTECHFan
October 19th, 2010
3:51 pm
Wonder what he (JVG) thinks of the Bucks taken the Hawks 7 games missing two of their best players, were the Haks out coached in that series? look at the talant that was on the floor.
BigTimeTECHFan
October 19th, 2010
3:52 pm
Oh, I say yes
Rufus1
October 19th, 2010
3:53 pm
Small…..Wtf
We are small at center any payroll, that is it.
Observer
October 19th, 2010
3:54 pm
You can’t bypass “FIRST”, if you’re first you’re first!
True Hawks Fan
October 19th, 2010
4:00 pm
Weren’t the Pistons small at the center, point, and the 2 guard positions?
Big D
October 19th, 2010
4:02 pm
Tell me why Atlanta can match up so well with the defending Eastern Conference Champs (Celtics) but not Orlando.
Here is why. Strengths and Weaknesses.
Dwight Howard is bothered by inside length and/or rugged players. The C’s have that element on defense, Atlanta doesnt.
Jameer Nelson is a PG who creates for himself and more so for teammates on offense. The C’s can pressure the ball at the point with their guards. Atlanta minus Teague, can not. That is not to mention that Jameer does not over assert himself on defense because he’s had to guard the stationary Mike Bibby v guarding a Rando.
The Hawks can matchup with anyone else in the East this year, but unless they make a trade for more length inside, they should hope not to see Orlando in a 7-game series. It does not matter the scheme. You can’t teach size at center and you can’t teach athletecism at PG.
wxwax
October 19th, 2010
4:02 pm
Drew was ostensibly hired to improve the offense and to find the team’s heart so that it doesn’t give up.
Whether or not the offense improves will be interesting.
But I get the feeling the defense will be a disaster. It’s obviously not Drew’s area of expertise or attention. And the team has demonstrated over the last couple of years that it’s reluctant to give the effort necessary on the defensive end.
As for the team’s heart, I really don’t think it has one. Joe Johnson’s a lovely player at times, but he’s not a leader. Al Horford could be, but it’s not his team. And Jamal Crawford, in addition to coming off the bench, isn’t a defensive guy.
I think the Hawks will backslide this year for the first time since the experiment began. And it wouldn’t surprise me if Larry Drew were one-and-done as a head coach.
The Rick Sund era officially begins with Woodson’s firing and Drew’s hiring. It’s on you now, Rick.
ILL-Logical
October 19th, 2010
4:02 pm
MC:Thanks for the info; another set of perspectives to add to the ongoing discussions concerning the Hawks and the upcoming season.
I am not comfortable being in accord with Jeff Van Gundy, however his point about the relative size disadvantage the current roster suffers from represents my primary bone of contention with the ASG.
The condition has proven to be detrimental to the team’s playoff success but more importantly, IT IS NOT A CHALLENGE THAT CAN’T BE SOLVED QUICKLY.
For the past 6 years, management’s emphasis has been focused on aquiring a serise of guards-Joe Johnson- small forwards-Josh,Josh, and Marvin- and undersized bigs-Sheldon and Al. Only the rumored attempt by Sund to aquire Chris Kamen 2 years ago which was shot down by the owners, stands out as an attempt to address the issue.
Teams like OKC and the Grizzlies have become the newest up and coming franchises by adding size AND athleticism. and they have smaller payrolls and are in much smaller media markets. So , I won’t accept excuses based on finances.
The Hawks are a good team; they have improved a great deal in the last 3 years but when I look at the team I see an organization that is mindlessly squandering opportunity. And I can’t understand why?
This Gets Old!
October 19th, 2010
4:04 pm
FIRST! (Thanks Melvin)
bigdave
October 19th, 2010
4:08 pm
with this “core” still in tact its hard to expect much of an identity change even with new philosophies. ill be hesitant to blame players or staff this season when many of our deficiencies as an organization begin with the front office..
as far as what was needed going forward. i think Hubie Brown dissected us best after the Magic massacre last spring.
http://www.stationcaster.com/player.php?s=87&c=671&f=48270
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
4:12 pm
Van Grumpy spent the whole time tellin’ you/us how good Orl is/was,
-or- in other words PR for “brother” Van Grumpy.
At least M.Jackson addressed your question.
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
4:17 pm
Okay, I’ll try again. [Bloginator got the last one]
Van Grumpy spent the whole time tellin’ us how good Orl is.
PR for Brother Van Grumpy.
At least M.Jackson answered your question.
Reggie
October 19th, 2010
4:17 pm
Anybody with ESPN Insider can you post this….its an NBA Preview on the SouthEast Division & a NBA Scout give his take on the Hawks http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=5685723&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d5685723
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
4:18 pm
O’Brien
That’s funny!
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
4:21 pm
OB, it will be interesting to see the transition period between the Hawks and Warriors, considering that they are in similar positions. But the Warriors also have added a new starter (David Lee) to their mix.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
4:27 pm
@ AJ David Lee will be an all star in the west!
SadDawg
October 19th, 2010
4:35 pm
Jeff Van Gundy is a small, small man . . .
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
4:36 pm
Now that Don Nelson is gone, do you guys think GS would take Crawford for Ellis?
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
4:37 pm
ILL-Logical
You brought up Kaman.
[Jamal for Kaman straight up] (works on trade machine)
LAC would not go for it.
I doubt ASG would either. (CK = 2 yr contract)
What would he do for our team now?
Besides change the whole dynamics!
I doubt Sund is even aware there might be personel deficiencies.
bigdave
October 19th, 2010
4:38 pm
this is encouraging from coach:
“Guys know their role. Shooters know who they are. Non shooters know who they are.”
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17651#ixzz12q5Z07zD
RealSquawk
October 19th, 2010
4:46 pm
The only national television crew I trust to give a fair opinion of the hawks is the TNT crew and that is only because they are based here. Other than that people are speaking from hear say or a one or two game sample.
The Joe Johnson contract finally hit me today and it hit me hard.
The Hawks do not match up well against the magic, but we aren’t small.
DEFENSE. This is where things get hairy. This team has never been tough on defense, which always seemed weird to me because they Mike Woodson appeared to be so tough.
Larry Drew will have to dig into these guys and punish some vets in order to get the message across because we don’t have the luxury of bringing in a Kevin Garnett type attitude to push and pull everyone towards the DEFENSIVE mind frame.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
4:47 pm
Ramon, I don’t think the Warriors are dumping salaries or they would not have picked up Lee to a long-term contract.
The Truth
October 19th, 2010
4:50 pm
Coaching Contrast: Woody vs. LD
Woody played to the team’s emotions. He preached and motivated the team by casting them as underdogs and being disrespected by the media, the analysts and anyone else who would criticize their accomplishment. He used the team’s improvements over the years as evidence that they were moving in the right direction. He was more of a preacher than a teacher as the reason why the team’s problems never got corrected. The players may have disagreed with him but they respected him because he had a ring as an assistant coach which gave him some authority. For these reasons, the team overachieved under Woody.
LD seems to be a better technician as a coach than Woody. Rather than emotionally inspiring them, he tends to appeal to the player’s intellect by showing them game summary, performance data; facts and figures to demonstrate to them analytically the errors of their ways. He’s bringing more offensive structure and continuity than Woody but the defense and roster quality have been and still are areas of concern. Since LD is a rookie coach with limited accomplishments as a coach, a new area of concern with him might be the players’ motivation to play hard for him during the bad times. He has certainly impressed us with his fresh philosophies and at least some of his new hires but the verdict is still out on him. Time will tell whether the players can adjust to his different coaching style since he will be unable to motivate them emotionally, they will have to individually motivate themselves.
Rufus1
October 19th, 2010
4:52 pm
I have waited 5 years
I have waited 5 years for a “Super Quick” PG to be brought to this a team and run the floor with these athletes……. I will not pass judgement for atleast 35 games into the season with Teague as the Leader.
I think we correct our size issue by having Al or Josh come off the bench.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
4:56 pm
Yea, but I think long term, they don’t think Curry and Ellis can co-exist in the same back court. And with Crawford’s deal expiring at the end of the year, they may see it as flexibility to pair Curry with a larger guard. And production wise, Crawford and Ellis aren’t that much different in that offense.
Rufus1
October 19th, 2010
5:00 pm
The Defense wil be fine
We Held the magic to 44 points in the 1st half,the Defense will be Fine….as long as the refs let us touch D12
Jody
October 19th, 2010
5:12 pm
Whether you like him or not, Van Gundy is dead on about the Hawks size issues and at the exact positions. I know folks are going to want to point to Ben Wallace to justify having an undersized center, but the difference was Ben Wallace was surrounded by a 7 ft Rasheed Wallace, 6′11 Okur, 7 ft. Elden Campbell and 7 ft. Darko Milicic. So, the 2004 Piston frontline as a whole was anything but undersized. The Hawks on the other hand are really undersized at both center and power forward and will have to address it sooner rather than later if they really want to contend.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 19th, 2010
5:13 pm
“No surprise Van Gundy goes to bat for Woodson. Coaches always are apologists for other coaches.”
As a broader point, players always are apologists for players and executives are always apologists for executives. We as fans routinely get the shaft from so-called “analysts” in every sport who have played the game before and will never criticize someone to whom they relate based on their own career.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 19th, 2010
5:16 pm
“Sometimes you just get beat by better teams. Orlando swept them–and you can say the blowouts [were a problem]–but Orlando is a better team. That’s just how it is. If they fired coaches that got beat by better teams, a lot of guys would be fired.”
This just shows me that JVG misses the whole point. Woody didn’t get fired because he got beat by a better team. Woody got fired because he got DESTROYED by a better team and completely embarrassed by a better coach. It’s one thing to play hard, play smart, and lose. It’s another thing to look like you don’t even belong in the same league.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
5:16 pm
You Can’t Touch This!
Rufus1
Not only can we not touch D12, we get a Technical if we don’t like it!
And, it just don’t stop!
In that case, if we score enough points I guess we take the referee out of the game.
Let’s Go Defense!
jason
October 19th, 2010
5:21 pm
this was the worst offensive game ever. 73 points. lost by about 30. I expect the hawks to be 20-62 next year.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
5:21 pm
Halfsies!
“We Held the magic to 44 points in the 1st half,”
Problem is, there are two half’s.
scottbravesfan
October 19th, 2010
5:21 pm
The thing about the NBA that I don’t like is its too hard to rebuild. It seems like there are only 3 or 4 legit teams to win the whole thing every year. It’s not like that in football, baseball, or even hockey. The Hawks were terrible for a decade and now it looks like they have maxed out as far as how far they can go in the playoffs to the second round. It just sucks. If you don’t get a Kobe Bryant in the draft forget about actually competing for a NBA title.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
5:34 pm
Anal Retentive!
IF Mr. Sund was Mr. Riley and Mr. Johnson was Mr. Wade?
LeBron and Bosh would have come to Atlanta.
Oh! My Bad … We are owned by the ASKG!
The real hurdle to the Hawks success is the cancerous Owners!
They are reminiscent of the old Stankin’ – Rankins.
Championships is a Culture that starts in the Hallways of the Owner’s Executive Anals! (Pun Intended!).
Like that song says: “No Woman – No Cry!”
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
5:37 pm
Belkin’s Foil!
I’m beginning to wonder if Steve Belkin would have been better for Atlanta as a singular owner.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
5:51 pm
Najeh,
Woody also got fired because he seemed to make no adjustments whatsoever.
Ramon,
I dont think Curry and Ellis can co-exist either, so I think GS will try and trade Ellis.
I’m not sure if I want him and his 4 year, $44 million contract though.
darrell starks
October 19th, 2010
5:53 pm
MC please don’t get me started on woody.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 19th, 2010
5:54 pm
Woody is not a good head coach, but assistant maybe.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 19th, 2010
5:59 pm
The only owner in ATL who want’s a championship and would do anything for 1 is ARTHUR BLANK.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
cp
October 19th, 2010
6:13 pm
Didn’t really say anything groundbreaking. Hopefully they play a lot harder Thursday than they did last night. I didn’t like the effort by a few of the guys. They were just going through the motions.
Hawkfan2000
October 19th, 2010
6:23 pm
First of all guys it’s Preseason. Second Lester Conner is known league wide as a fantastic defensive coach. The Head Coach doesn’t have to personally teach every concept of the game. But he has to have a very capable coaching staff and i think LD has done a great job of selecting his staff. Just like 96 or 97 when they overacted to us losing to the Knicks. They did it again…No matter what some of you guys think WOODY did not deserve to get fired. Management needs to learn to take the fall for their mistakes..Who knows if the problems with ownership were resolved then who knows what players we would have been able to acquire.
ILL-Logical
October 19th, 2010
6:28 pm
The ASG’s new mantra is: the beatings will continue until morale improves!
Hawk n the Ham
October 19th, 2010
6:38 pm
Can anyone get the practice live stream to work?
niremetal
October 19th, 2010
6:44 pm
Jeff Van Gundy told Shane Battier to focus more on offense and Mark Jackson said that winning in the playoffs is “not about getting stops. It’s about doing your job.” Wake me up when you get a comment from Hubie, Fratello, or Snow…
truthspitter
October 19th, 2010
6:45 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3×2n82j
Bibby
Williams
Zaza
Possibly a 1st round pick and 2nd rd pick
for
Gilbert Arenas
Javal McGee
Why they do this to get rid of Arenas contract which is longterm. Unfortunately that’s the same reason why the Hawks would not do it.
New lineup
Teague/Crawford/Jordan
Arenas/Crawford/Jordan
Joe/Smoove/Evans
Horford/Smoove/Powell
McGee/Horford/Collins/Thomas
Good news we are a better team. Bad news we go into 2011-12 offseason with like $66 million in payroll after resigning Al with only 7 players under contract. We will need to sign 6 players with $4 million or so to stay under luxury.
Hawk n the Ham
October 19th, 2010
6:45 pm
Oh wait……nevermind. I was cONFuSEd!!
Mike10
October 19th, 2010
6:48 pm
I agree with Van Gundy 100% I don’t care what people thought about Woody he definitely improved this team and now you start over with a new coach your not going to start where you left off I think the Hawks are going to struggle big time but make the playoff as the 6-8 seed.Orlando was the best team and it showed you can’t Blame Woody the Hawks need better personnel to me you blame ownership.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 19th, 2010
6:49 pm
Extend, trade, or cut?
http://allball.blogs.nba.com/2010/10/18/extend-trade-or-cut-young-centers-edition/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
6:56 pm
I would do that Gilbert Arenas trade in a heartbeat!
He is a googy guy, he is not a Thug! Just made some silly choices.
He would fit perfect in Atlanta.
Why not try to get Melo in here?
Nobody on this team should be untouchable.
Twin was impressive to me last night. Why not start him at
Center with Zsa as his Back up. Let Josh and Al rotate the PF and battle for who starts or base it on match ups. Start playing a Bigger team out there.
Sund should be working feverishly to help this team look like a solid and normal line up!
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 19th, 2010
7:03 pm
Cause For Concern???!!!
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/10/19/cause-for-concern/
:-/
Orlando sure does know how to make a Hawks fan cry.
Total domination and annihilation. I respect their game but I’m starting to hate them more than I hate the Boston Celtics.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 19th, 2010
7:24 pm
“Woody also got fired because he seemed to make no adjustments whatsoever.”
Yeah, I was just tired of running down the laundry list of reasons that we have all talked about all year.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 19th, 2010
7:26 pm
“The thing about the NBA that I don’t like is its too hard to rebuild. It seems like there are only 3 or 4 legit teams to win the whole thing every year. It’s not like that in football, baseball, or even hockey. The Hawks were terrible for a decade and now it looks like they have maxed out as far as how far they can go in the playoffs to the second round. It just sucks. If you don’t get a Kobe Bryant in the draft forget about actually competing for a NBA title.”
This is very true. Baseball gets criticized for not having parity, but it is possible to build a team of many good but not great players in baseball and win a title. In basketball, if you don’t have a superstar, it is damn near impossible, and if you don’t luck out into a lottery pick in a year when a franchise player is available, the chances of landing one is slim to none.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
7:30 pm
Some of you still don’t get it.
Van Gundy and Jackson were right on the money. And keep in mind, they’re talking about the Hawks in the form of a championship caliber team. They both know that we should definitely be a playoff team. But we don’t have the elements that other championship contending teams have.
Not only are Smoove and Horford an undersized PF and C, they don’t play strong AND big all the time. And when you’re a 6-9 PF and a 6-10 C, you better play bigger than your size. If you can’t, the talented bigs in this league will eat you alive.
LOL @ someone saying Detroit was small when they won the title.
- Billups ( 6-3 ) . . and one of the strongest PGs in the league, could defend both the point and the 2
- Hamilton ( 6-7 ) . . best conditioned player in league, would tire his opponent out by constantly running.
- Prince ( 6-9 ) . . great man defender and better help defender, could guard 3 positions if need be
- R. Wallace ( 6-11 ) . . great man defender and decent shot blocker
- B. Wallace ( 6-9 ) . . 2nd strongest player in league, great man defender, help defender, dominant defensive rebounder and shot blocker
Then you had McDyess ( 6-11 ) and a very good defensive backup PG in Lindsey Hunter ( 6-1 ) who wouldn’t cause the Detroit defense to lose a beat.
People should NEVER compare the Hawks to that Pistons team, just because they didn’t have a bonafide offensive superstar.
No . . . what they had, were 4 DEFENSIVE superstars, with 3 or 4 other guys who could play good defense as well.
The Hawks have nothing close to that here, nor do we have enough offensive superstars.
NorcalHawk
October 19th, 2010
7:39 pm
This has the makings for a very dull NBA season: Heat, Magic, and Lakers vying for the title while everyone else fights for the crumbs. LD is a nice guy who faces an impossible task: matching last year’s successes with an older and less inspired bunch.
Hmmm
October 19th, 2010
7:55 pm
McDyess, Did not win a title with Detriot. He came the year after.
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
7:55 pm
Woodson is gone and Van Gundy was out of line to answer MC’s
question with that response. It had nothing to do with the
question and it was very self serving.
Now can we all agree, it’s LD’s team until it’s not.
We need to upgrade [size].
I both agree and disagree at the same time with ol’ Van Gundy.
We -are- small up front. But, Orl has Jameer Nelson + Duhon
and nothing was mentioned about the size of the magic pg’s.
In the meanwhile LD’s workin’ hard and workin’ smart.
What more can we ask.
Now Sund needs to roll up his sleeves and go to work.
Vacation times over.
dstdeelite
October 19th, 2010
7:59 pm
Hubie called a spade a spade.
Quote of the night: “He blew by him like he wasn’t standing there. Damn near got pneumonia.”
LMAO!!
Sautee
October 19th, 2010
8:17 pm
Ramon,
Ok, I went back and found your “approved” definitions of “stated”.
Here’s what you posted:
“Sautee, state also means – to say-. Don’t just post one definition when a word has over 15 definitions.”
Then you posted this:
“Or what about 19. definition for state (as defined by dictionary.reference.com) 19. to articulate in words; utter …”
Ramon, here again is your original post that I disagreed with:
September 28th, 2010
5:27 pm
“Section 303, is Al whining when he states (over and over) that he can’t win without playing the PF position, when he knows he’s not the best PF on the team? Is that doing what’s best for the team?”
OK, Ramon, according to your post AND your definitions of “state” Al either SAID (your first definition) “that he can’t win without playing the PF position”
or he “articulated in words” or “uttered” “that he can’t win without playing the PF position”.
This is BS because Al NEVER SAID, ARTICULATED IN WORDS, OR UTTERED that phrase.
The link you provided was to a blog of MC’s from the off season and NOWHERE in that blog does Al say what you claim.
Ramon, it’s as easy as saying “yeah, that’s my take on what he meant”. I have NO problem with you THINKING that about Horford, only with you claiming that he “stated” those things, when he clearly did not.
So how about a mea culpa?
Will
October 19th, 2010
8:17 pm
The hawks have looked really bad this preseason, they need a good point guard that is very vocal out on the court.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
8:20 pm
Hmmmm . . you’re right. It was 6-11 Elden Campbell and 7ft Meme Okur who were on that team.
6 years later, Okur is still one of the best defensive centers in the league, mainly because he plays great position defense.
Like drmaryb says . . . size matters.
And not only that, the size has to be of quality. Just can’t throw a useless big man out there, and say you have size.
Hmmm
October 19th, 2010
8:24 pm
northcye, I agree and i’m tierd of this. We have to find a way to get our hands on a decent center immedately.
Hmmm
October 19th, 2010
8:24 pm
northcye, I agree and i’m tierd of this. We have to find a way to get our hands on a decent center immedately.
Hmmm
October 19th, 2010
8:24 pm
Oops lol
Hmmm
October 19th, 2010
8:26 pm
LMBO @ Sautee
KevinM
October 19th, 2010
8:28 pm
You know the offense will be a work in progress all year. We could easily drop to under 15 in the league in offense.
If that happens, the defense has to be smothering and so imposing on the interior, no one would want to drive to the basket.
- Problem is, no fear of Al and Josh
- Problem is, no perimeter defense…..Joe could not stop Carter last night, and picks and screens will have Jordan Crawford scrambling around late every time.
Its about Lester Conner and his defensive schemes as much as it is about the new passing offense.
Losses from last year according to NBA TV: Joe Smith, Josh Childress, Coach Woodson……really?
We lost nothing off this roster, and that is the real problem here, because Sund thinks we have enough to compete.
Those empty seats last night? Get used to it with that effort they put together last night.
What I saw was so much chummy chummy with Dwight and the rest of the Magic. The Hawks look like little brother in this division.
Will they show up against Miami? They will have to run to have a chance because this 1/2 court stuff looks like a bunch of long jumpers to me.
The most boring GM in the game: Rick Sund……keep the core, move the malcontents.
Sautee
October 19th, 2010
8:32 pm
KevinM,
No fear of Josh? Which games were you watching?
Dude changes shots every time he steps on the court. Ask Boston.
KevinM
October 19th, 2010
8:32 pm
“Will
October 19th, 2010
8:17 pm
The hawks have looked really bad this preseason, they need a good point guard that is very vocal out on the court.”
Based on what has happened so far, Teague is going to have to be the savior for this team to compete. He has to be our Rondo on both ends.
ryan
October 19th, 2010
8:39 pm
ASG is finished Rick Sund should be fired we need to find some way to fire everyone in this crap origination can’t there be some type of petition to throw the bums out .
newkid
October 19th, 2010
8:40 pm
If Van Gundy is correct, and Sund/ASG don’t (or can’t) make a series of moves, could it be Sund/ASG headed for deep lottery (like 3-7) in ‘11? Chumps of the first order.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
8:42 pm
@ Grandad . . . it’s because Nelson and Duhon don’t play down to their size. They both play like bigger PGs, especially defensively.
If Bibby didn’t play so weak, he wouldn’t be viewed as “small”. And Teague, while 6-2, is a slight 6-2 . . . not rock solid like a Derek Fisher.
When a team plays small, they’ll be viewed as small.
Even JJ at 6-7 plays small at times.
When this teams decides to not hold their mouths and cry, everytime they get hit in it, they won’t be viewed as “small” anymore.
tidog
October 19th, 2010
8:47 pm
Hawks always get props for their length and being athletic. The may be light in the arse but they aren’t small. I’ll sell VanGundy analysis.
kwooden1
October 19th, 2010
9:00 pm
Did anyone see the open practice tonight?
MsDee
October 19th, 2010
9:23 pm
kwooden1,
The way the Hawks have played thus far, I dont think the players thought it was an OPEN PRACTICE today cause it may have turned out that the only ones in the gym were them and the coaches.
They really have to get it together with the defense or they will continue to be embarrass by the NBA world and their fans…all I ask for is show that u care to win by not letting your opponent walk/drive all over yall, ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
October 19th, 2010
9:26 pm
Thanks northcyde for bringing the facts through the tale of the tape. We don’t and never have measured up to the 04 Pistons-period
Until Rund man’s up and the ASKG pony up the funds, The Hawks will never rise up to elite status-period
Until Drew starts benching starters and holding them accountable for playing “small” and being soft punks, our defense will be weak as one ply toilet paper.
i_am_soulstar
October 19th, 2010
9:28 pm
Van Gundy basically says “The Hawks need more adequate players at their positions.”
Although Josh doesn’t seem to have a problem with too many power forwards in the league IMO.
The Truth
October 19th, 2010
9:32 pm
Another observation I notice while I watch at Phillips, was the lack of free throw attempts by the Hawks. This team has no attack dog mentality when trying to get the line to overcome struggling perimeter shooting. Listening to LD press conference, he overly stated the team inability to make open jumpers something they routinely do. Josh Smith seems also surprise they weren’t able to hit the open shots but no mentioning from either about the lack of free throw attempts. Again this validates the Hawks is just a jumping team. The best way to counter and slow down an extremely aggressive Orlando defense is to attack the rim and draw fouls. It was though they were ultra-worried about D Howard shot blocking ability, they were afraid to challenge him. As usual the Hawks settled for jumpers and when struggling on the perimeter also explains the loss. Hopefully Teague can add this new wrinkle.
The Truth
October 19th, 2010
9:33 pm
* a jump shooting team
Hmmm
October 19th, 2010
9:42 pm
Apparently Hubie Brown had an interview with 680 the fan about the hawks recently? Does anyone have link to this?
Hmmm
October 19th, 2010
9:47 pm
I couldnt find it on their site
True hawk fan
October 19th, 2010
9:54 pm
I love the hawks but the truth is going to hurt us! By getting rid of Woody was a big mistake. It’s already showing in the preseason! WE BE LUCKY IF MADE THE PLAYOFF!!!! There is to much competition in the conference!!! Our record will show…. just wait and see! (40-42 *2010-2011)
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
10:07 pm
Hmmm,
The interview was right after the magic blowout series in the playoffs, so it was a while back. He had some good insights though, about how coaching can affect t playoff performances.
And although his playoff resuis not so good, I thought he made some interesting points.
Sautee,
You are not going to get the admission from Ramon. Although all he has is al saying for the hawks to be any kind of contender, they need more size, and him and Josh need help.
I don’t recall al saying “for the hawks to win, he has to play PF”. The closest thing might be al saying they need more size, and he wants to play more minutes at PF.
I have yet to see Ramon post a link that quotes al saying exactly what ramon said.
Joe's place Joe speaking
October 19th, 2010
10:13 pm
MC or anyone who can answer,
I know this is kind of random and off subject but… Does anybody know what colleges were recruiting Josh Smith out of high school? Or what college he would have gone to?
Melvin
October 19th, 2010
10:21 pm
For those who are worried about preseason play, Smoove said not too. Smoove posted this on his blog today.
“What’s going on? I know alot of you have been checking out the pre-season games getting a little nervous but trust me its no need to worry. We will be fine. For the most part we haven’t had the whole team play together yet and the times that we did the rotation is not what it would be in the regular season so don’t read alot into it. It seems that everybody had these little nagging injuries thats getting worked out. This Thursday we will be playing on TNT against another division opponent, the Miami Heat. I know everybody is waiting to see what they look like up close. Also, if anybody is free today we have an open practice at 6pm at Milton High School. I’m about to get into the gym early and work with my trainer. I’ll talk to you’ll later…….SMOOVE “
Dejay
October 19th, 2010
10:32 pm
As I stated before, if folks thought that Woodson was the singular problem with this team, they’re going to be in for a rude awakening. Not that I don’t have faith in Drew but the problem within this organization runs wayyyyyyyyyyy deeper than that…
“The thing about the NBA that I don’t like is its too hard to rebuild. It seems like there are only 3 or 4 legit teams to win the whole thing every year. It’s not like that in football, baseball, or even hockey. The Hawks were terrible for a decade and now it looks like they have maxed out as far as how far they can go in the playoffs to the second round. It just sucks. If you don’t get a Kobe Bryant in the draft forget about actually competing for a NBA title.”
That quote pretty much tells the story, folks. In order to win big in this league, you have to have a superstar player, a competent front office who can surround said superstar with talent, and ownership willing to spend $$$ to acquire/keep that talent and add to the mix when necessary. The Hawks fit neither requiem, which explains the empties in the stands unless a premier player or team is in town or there’s a helluva giveaway taking place that evening. Folks in this town are many things but lemmings they are not.
Even when they had the chance to draft players who could’ve made all the difference in the world, incompetence in the front office cost them dearly (see Paul, Christopher). If guys like Roy, Paul, Deng, et al had been here instead of waiting on Speedy Claxton to one day show up to courtside in something other than an Armani suit, would we even be having this conversation right now?
This franchise is on a downward slope and I really don’t see much in the way to stop it. You have a GM who is trying to drive a car with both hands tied behind his back by an ownership group who spends less $$$ than Charles Barkley does after a weekend bender at Harrah’s.
45-37, 6th seed in the East. God help them if they draw Orlando in the first round.
Hope I’m wrong…
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
10:49 pm
Sautee
“I’m sorry” and I haven’t ever pissed you off,
that I know of,
yet,
and after seeing your inner Dawg,
I hope I don’t ever piss you off.
Your like a dadgum pit-bull,
latch on and you ain’t gonna let go.
So,
like I said,
I’m gonna go ahead and tell you I’m sorry,
just in case.
Peace, brother.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
10:52 pm
Guys, off topic here, but have any of you watched the ESPN 30-for-30 called Once Brothers? It’s about Vlade Divac and Drazen Petrovich, and how their friendship was lost in the Serbia/Croatia war. It was outstanding. Might be the best 30-for-30 yet. Finally got around to watching it tonight, via DVR.
Good hoops memories in there, too. Good footage of when the two played in the league. Including a game I remember watching when I was in high school when the Boston Celtics played against the Yugoslavia National Team and barely one. Yugo team had Vlade, Drazen, Dino Radja, Tony Kukoc…great team.
Melvin
October 19th, 2010
10:53 pm
Joe’s place Joe speaking,
I think Josh committed to play at Indiana out of HS.
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
10:54 pm
Joe’s place Joe speaking
Josh had commited to Indiana.
Fundamentals
October 19th, 2010
11:29 pm
Made it out to Milton today. I definitely appreciate Powell, Pachulia and Thomas for spending alot of time with the fans. Others seemed a bit disinterested.
Hopefully Teague’s ankle was hurting b/c he couldn’t take Bibby or anyone off the dribble. Josh ate almost every shot attempt he tried.
Twin looked great, moved well and seemed happy.
Jordan looked exhausted, but tried to give a good effort tonight.
Other than that pretty quiet. Only real fire/aggression was in the stands, not on the court as two girls decided to fight it out.
Who was the guy in the Pistol Pete jersey getting everyone’s autographs? He was relentless. We need him to give the team a speech about intensity and effort.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
11:30 pm
O’Brien, you have yet to see me say that he said it exactly as I said it either.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
11:34 pm
Sautee, articulate means to interpret or think.
Joe's place Joe speaking
October 19th, 2010
11:37 pm
Melvin, Grandad Thanks! I was curious to see if he was highly recruited and what schools were recruiting him.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
11:39 pm
Fundamentals, you mean Joe Johnson was one of the guys who seemed disinterested in the fans? Stunner….glad I was sitting down when I read your post.
Fundamentals
October 19th, 2010
11:49 pm
I didn’t single Joe out 303 – you did. Man up buddy, make your own comment.
Most who walked through the crowd just seemed to want to keep moving to the bus. There weren’t that many fans there. To me it seemed like if the whole team could’ve hung out 10 minutes after practice the fans would’ve been satisfied. Instead they moved pretty quickly to the locker room and then to the bus. What was the hurry practice ended at 7:10 and they were on the bus by 7:25. They advertised they’d be there till 8:00.
Is a 1 hour practice really that grueling when 30 minutes are spend on stretching?
Hmmm
October 20th, 2010
12:15 am
O’Brien, Thanks. I’ve actually heard that before. I thought there was sometihng new out lol.
Hmmm
October 20th, 2010
12:27 am
I didnt know J-Smoove had a blog.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
October 20th, 2010
12:34 am
About Josh Smith’s blog post:
Hope right you are Smith. Hope right you are.
HawkEye
October 20th, 2010
12:40 am
Im still holding all judgement until the season actually begins. While it is only preseason, i wouldve loved to see the hawks play with more fire and passion against Orlando, but then again there are some teams that are just better than you from the starters to the bench.Funny but i remember a time when it was the other way around and we gave Howard fits. Oh well.
Im not really sure what to make of the hawks because it is still very early. I am still waiting to see our team when we get all of our pieces back. LD will have the hardest time teaching these players defense, not offense. Our starters (especially JJ, Al and Smoove) must set the tone on defense for it to translate to the bench.
Hawks have to play with passion no matter the score. Sometimes the best message you can send to a team is “we are not giving up no matter what.” I still believe this season will be a good one. Not sure about a deep playoff run but who knows. Im catiously optimistic but thats not a crime. You have to believe before you can achieve. GO HAWKS GO.
Hmmm
October 20th, 2010
12:52 am
Danny Green was recently waived by the cavs. I think we should look into it. I’m sure with him and Pape Sy…we can make marvin nervous or at least ATTEMPT to play better. He’s also be good just for some depth at the SF spot.
diet pape sy
October 20th, 2010
1:12 am
articulate
1. uttered clearly in distinct syllables.
2. capable of speech; not speechless.
3. using language easily and fluently; having facility with words: an articulate speaker.
4. expressed, formulated, or presented with clarity and effectiveness: an articulate thought.
5. made clear, distinct, and precise in relation to other parts: an articulate form; an articulate shape; an articulate area.
6. (of ideas, form, etc.) having a meaningful relation to other parts: an articulate image.
7. having parts or distinct areas organized into a coherent or meaningful whole
MsDee
October 20th, 2010
1:31 am
Humm,
How many times now have Danny Green been waived?? I dont think we need to take a chance on him considering the fact that I havent seen him on a basketball court since being with Boston.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
1:44 am
Put Up Your Dukes!
Maybe the two female matadors in the stands could try out for the Hawks.
The team could have used a fighting chance against the Magic, Monday night.
shawn
October 20th, 2010
2:12 am
This team is a joke becasue AS (their owners) are a joke. I watched Them the other day and this team does not excite me at all. Defensively, they are small and not good. Offensively, I have no idea what LD is trying to implement. Anyway, as I said before, I do not see an upgrade when you hire LD as your coach.
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
3:27 am
Jeff Van Gundy showed with that comment precisely why his Adams Family lookin’ a$$ is still in the broadcasting booth. Nobody asked him anything about Mike Woodson. And no wonder he defends Woody vigorously.
Hmmm…I seem to remember the Rockets running a slow-paced, one dimensional offense, and never going anywhere with it in the playoffs. Now who was that wretched balding loser who never could get out of the first round of the playoffs, despite having Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady on his roster? I mean, he didn’t have a “small, small, small” lineup, so what was the issue? And don’t tell me injuries, because although both players experienced them a lot, Van Gundy got to the playoffs with homecourt advantage with BOTH of those guys playing together in the playoffs TWICE.
Hell, he can’t even hold a candle to Woody, who never had two All-NBA players on his squad. You got a superstar wing player and a superstar center, and you can’t get out of the first round? STFU. That’s why you’re still in the booth. And if Mark Jackson ever wants a coaching job, he might want to stop being seen with you…
As to the Hawks…
The issue isn’t pure size as much as it is useable size. Have to agree with Northcyde, we also play small. No one is worse about this than Marvin Williams. Instead of 6′9″ 245, with a 7′3″ wingspan, you would think he was no bigger than Mo Evans (minus the biceps). I watched “small” a$$ Quinton Richardson outplay and outrebound him like it was nothing. What’s Quinton, 6′6″ and about 225?
In the meantime, we have 7′0″ Jason Collins, 6′11″ Zaza Pachulia, and 6′10″ Etan Thomas. Like I said, “useable size.”
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
3:31 am
Now I will agree that Jason Collins has looked better these days. I really do think he’ll take some minutes from Zaza.
Beyond that, we’ve had the chance at getting some guys with size, who have the skills to be in anybody’s 7 or 8 man rotation. We just never pull the trigger and hit the target. Call it whatever you want.
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
3:32 am
Like I said, “useable size.”…..that’s the issue…
Emir S.
October 20th, 2010
4:42 am
I still beleive Rick Sund has a trick up his sleeve. I mean as a GM, you can’t possibly be scared to pull a rabbit out of a hat, knowing all you have is daisies. (Hope you guys get the metaphors)
BTW, I was just on the Hawks website. I was checking out the roster, and I noticed the website roster had pictures of each player now, something new apparently. Anyways, have you guys seen Etan Thomas!? The dude….is R-I-P-P-E-D! Like holy crap……
I have a feeling, if he really tries, he can take huge minutes away from Zaza this season.
Alot of you guys seem to be very negative with the team and towards it. I understand why and I understand that changes should be implemented. However, at the same time, I think assumptions should be held back till atleast 10 games into the season. Preseaon, is just preseason. Wheter we are 1-4 or 0-5 or even 5-0, it dosent determine the outcome of the season. Not at all. If it does, then expect Miami (3-3) to end up as sub .500 team. Expect Chicago (2-4) to finish at 31-51. Oh and while your at it….the Cavs (5-2) have high expectations for them to end up at 52-30. Yea…right. Guess the Lakers (2-4) wont be competing for anything either.
The team is sloppy atm, yes. But once again its preseason. Its why its there. To buff out the dents, test your rotations, see what area the team needs the most improvemnts still, etc, and etc.
We can all agree that we NEED a C. A true legit C, who does’nt have to put up 15ppg. But do atleast 12-15 rebounds and atleast 1-3 blocks a game. Hell, if you can give me 5-8ppg then I’ll be in love with you. I’d even consider to put Josh Smith(MyFavPlayer) up for trade. Maybe trade him for an efficent SF, that can replace Marvin Williams. (even tho, I still think Marvin will fourish in this so called Princeton style offense.) Anyways, Im probally daydreaming atm. (Its 5AM)
But yea, lets give it 10-15 games into the season before we pass judgement and throw out assumptions.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 20th, 2010
8:23 am
This Rangers-Yankees series has me thinking… would a small-market, below the cap team (say the Grizzlies) EVER have a chance to beat the highest paid team in the league in a conference finals in the NBA?
The idea that basketball’s salary cap creates an even playing field really is just a myth.
vava74
October 20th, 2010
8:33 am
Najeh,
The fact that the NBA cap is not a hard cap makes it a lot less effective at evening the league since big basketball markets like LA and Boston can sustain over the cap/luxury tax situations for extended periods of time without flinching.
NBA rosters are small and the talent pool is also limited: consequently the absence of a hard cap makes a huge difference since any given roster plus one or minus one quality player can imply 10 wins more or 10 wins less.
Look at the NHL and you’ll see what I mean. Hard cap and it’s the most competitive league.
vava74
October 20th, 2010
8:45 am
JVG is an idiot.
Lack of size at PG position? Is Jameer Nelson 6′5”?
What we lack at the PG position – the jury is still out on Teague – is a minimum defensive presence.
Bibby and Jamal (even worse) were almost non existent on D and when Nelson first and Duhon abused that lack of D the rest of the Hawks were left scrambling.
Even if you put a 4 four men team consisting of excellent defenders playing a 5 man team with good outside shooting team with a strong C like Howard, the 5 man team will always win easily.
With Bibby and Jamal we are playing D 4 on 5.
Hmmm
October 20th, 2010
8:48 am
MsDee, I think you mean Gerald Green. Danny Green was drafted in the 2nd round of the’09 draft. He won a title at UNC with Hansbrough etc. Though after looking at some footage of him, I can see why he was waived. I beleive Danny and Gerald are actually cousins, which explains a lot (LOL)
Doug Hi
October 20th, 2010
8:56 am
I have lived in Atlanta all of my 36 years and I have supported the Hawks for most of those years. I was so disappointed in this organization when the Hawks fired Woody because, while the Orlando series was bad, we lost to a better team. Orlando shot over 55% from the field (including 3-pointers) and we just ran into a buzz saw. You notice that Orlando didn’t shoot as well against the Celtics in the next series and they lost that series.
In any event, if Woody was the problem with the Hawks then why did they go and hire his assistant and make him the lowest paid coach in the NBA. It seems clear to me that this organization is not focused on winning but rather on watching the bottom line. The Hawks got better every year on Woody’s regime. Let’s see what they do under LD’s. I will continue to be a Hawks fan because that is what I am but it doesn’t look like the organization is committed to winning.
GOOD LUCK LD…I hope that I am wrong.
Hmmm
October 20th, 2010
9:02 am
I saw Chris Kaman play last night. I must say, I was salivating. I cannot beleive the CLIPPERS have held on to him for so long. We were rumored to be after him a few years ago. Now with Griffn there and Zach Randolph and Marcus Camby gone, we have no shot at getting Chris Kaman. SMH when will we ever catch a break.
PISTOL PETE
October 20th, 2010
9:19 am
HONEST REPORTING……HOW REFRESHING IS THAT!!!!!! I EXPECT MORE OF THE SAME AS IT EVER WAS,THEREFORE I WON’T BE WASTING MY TIME & DOLLAR’S WATCHING THIS CRAP TEAM!!!!
i_am_soulstar
October 20th, 2010
9:28 am
I can’t believe Jason COllins is looking useful these days. Thank God for small favors.
And Josh Smith says don’t worry.. http://jsmoove.net/blog/?p=128
doc
October 20th, 2010
9:33 am
vava, the nfl is probably a better example of what you are speaking of. it is where they alter schedules as well as a hard cap to benefit the bottom and hurt the top. that is why super bowl teams rarely make it back because of competitive scheduling practices, of good teams playing good and bad teams playing bad, where some really good teams are just too broken up to be competitive because of physical and mental attrition. though ratings are up and it has never been stronger, i see the league as diluted and point out, it is why some pretenders end up in the super bowl more ofter than not. in the nfl the cream does not rise to the top, it gets homogenized.
ICECOLD
October 20th, 2010
9:42 am
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2c6p7bq
this trade works.. its a dream trade.. but i think everybody wins with it… both teams.. especially the hawks though
Jase
October 20th, 2010
9:45 am
Melo melo melo melo please
vava74
October 20th, 2010
9:49 am
doc,
I don’t like the NFL example because the bottom line is that it distorts the competition.
A hard cap and maximum contracts of 4 years would work wonders in the NBA and my guess is that you would have at least 5 different champs every 10 years and 10/12 every 20.
truthspitter
October 20th, 2010
10:08 am
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ylna4mk
Zaza and if push comes to shove a 2nd rd pick or maybe a 1st in 2012 or 2013
for
Hasheem Thabeet
Why we do this because we get a true C who offers a defensive presence and should be able to get some rebounds just by default. Furthermore, I really think he has a chance to be better than Hibbert on defense and slightly worse on offense.
Why they do this because this summer Marc Gasol comes up for Free Agency and someone will max him out if the Grizz have any thoughts of matching I don’t think they wanna be paying Thabeet $5 million a year as a backup. That’s like having Dwight Howard and long nose as centers but Memphis is not Orlando and they are not going into luxury plus they have another foreign big man.
Lastly, if Gasol makes it to the summer as a restricted FA I would offer Smoove in a sign and trade for Gasol.
i_am_soulstar
October 20th, 2010
10:21 am
Icecold,
I’ve never cried from joy before, but if Denver went for that trade (even if we had to give away 2 first round picks), that just might do it.
Probably have to put Josh or Al somewhere up in there to make it work though, and in that case, I’d wouldn’t give away 2 first round picks.
I don’t see us getting Carmelo without giving up Josh or Al.
Samuel
October 20th, 2010
10:35 am
I’m glad to be in sinc with people that actually know basketball. Wake up people.
i_am_soulstar
October 20th, 2010
10:35 am
I think Denver would go for this one, although I’m not sure if some of the fans would.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29gfzq3
Samuel
October 20th, 2010
10:37 am
JVG must be reading this blog.
D-Ball
October 20th, 2010
10:46 am
All this BLOGGING about nothing. Folks, nothing has changed with this team. Expectations should not be any different than last year or the year before.
bigdave
October 20th, 2010
10:46 am
“I watched “small” a$$ Quinton Richardson outplay and outrebound him like it was nothing. What’s Quinton, 6′6″ and about 225?”
i totally agree with you, and its even more evident in his back to the basket game. one would think that Marvin could be a match up nightmare to opposing SF working from the blocks. as far as Richardson. dude is far from slight.. he’s put together and solid up top and base. i wouldnt be surprised if dude was around 240-45. his 3pt shooting prowess would lead you to believe otherwise but he is a handful in the low post as well. still no excuse for Marvin.
doc
October 20th, 2010
10:47 am
vava, i agree about the distortion and why i mentioned it. what is also of interest in the nfl is there are no guaranteed contracts, only bonus money is guaranteed. so there is less of the let down after a big contract you might see in other leagues. that in itself ramps up the nature of the performance. unfortunately, when a team decides to save money instead of remain competitive they might delete a worthy player just to save payroll. nothing perfect.
Sautee
October 20th, 2010
10:55 am
Ramon,
You posted this:
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
11:30 pm
“O’Brien, you have yet to see me say that he said it exactly as I said it either.”
I can’t believe that ol’ Dept. of unintended irony didn’t get to this one first.
Here’s your original post:
September 28th, 2010
5:27 pm
“Section 303, is Al whining when he states (over and over) that he can’t win without playing the PF position, when he knows he’s not the best PF on the team? Is that doing what’s best for the team?”
And now you say THIS?
“O’Brien, you have yet to see me say that he said it exactly as I said it either.”
LOL, Ramon, I’m amazed. This is akin to Bill Clinton’s ever-so-lame “It depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is”. Clinton was trying his best to squirm out of a tight fit and you are doing exactly the same. I have tried to be patient and get you to come around. My patience is wearing thin.
So now I’m accusing you of cowardice.
You can put up all the definitions of “state” or articulate” that you want and it STILL doesn’t excuse you for speciously conflating (look it up!) Al’s words.
You know in your heart that you have accused him of something he didn’t say and have run away from your act. You should be ashamed as a Hawks fan for denigrating a good man. At the very least you should be able to admit that Al never said those words. If you cannot then you sir, are a coward.
doc
October 20th, 2010
11:14 am
AJ you brought up the thrashers recently on a blog. yes, there are parallels. they sucked as the preseason started as they adjusted to new players and a new system. they have shined coming out of the gate. i can hope for that as we approach the season. i have got to pull on that line of thinking as we move forward to find any silver lining right now. to expect teague to be the answer or missing link for this team is just crazy.
here is another line and a parallel to what we might see in a couple of years for marvin:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=ApVrI8AkvbuRp93Auq0shiU5nYcB?slug=nc-lehtonen101810
KERI WAS LONG CRITICIZED FOR BEING THE ANSWER AND A TOP DRAWER DRAFT PICK AND NEVER GOT OFF THE TRAINING TABLE LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE AN IMPACT. sorry for the caps that was not for emphasis just a mistake.
doc
October 20th, 2010
11:25 am
sautee, i will gladly mea cupa for sure if there is anything in my blog karma ahead of time before you grab hold of it.
tony
October 20th, 2010
11:27 am
Move that sorry team out of Atanta so we can get a new owner who is committed to winning championships.
ryan
October 20th, 2010
11:33 am
Magic Johnson said he would like to own NBA team since he sold his shares of the Lakers maybe we can him to buy the Hawks and save us from the ASG .
STEEL(Formerly VenomSpitter)
October 20th, 2010
11:39 am
Marvin needs an ADRENALINE SHOT
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
11:44 am
“Those guys can really guard”
- Marvin Williams
Wrong attitude. Totally wrong. Get off my starting squad, and go sit on the bench Mr. “I won a college championship and nobody can take that away from me.” Yeah, well Al Horford won two of them, but do we hear about that?
“They’re not 25 ppg better than us.”
You’re not doing a good job of convincing the world otherwise.
vava74
October 20th, 2010
11:46 am
Magic sold his stake on the Lakers because he is broke and close.
He is not buying anything.
He said clearly two things:
1. The sale was motivated by bitter economic motivations and for the benefit of his family (ie he needs the cash);
2. He is a Laker for life.
vava74
October 20th, 2010
11:52 am
broke OR close
vava74
October 20th, 2010
11:53 am
Or, the offer was irresistibly high…
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
11:55 am
bigdave ,
True, and I remember what Quentin Richardson and Darius Miles used to do to folks some years back. But Marvin is not slightly built. He still has some strength, and plenty of length (and actually, a fairly good bit of athleticism). Not one clue how to use it, and an absolute lack of mentality to match.
Maybe Larry Drew should start reading Sun Tzu in practices….
“The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy’s will to be imposed on him.”
– Sun Tzu
Lose the game in your mind, and you will surely lose it on the court.
Big Ray
October 20th, 2010
11:57 am
I read Josh Smith’s blog from time to time. I like that he has one, the man does endeavor to connect with the fans. Gotta give him credit for that. Then again, I’m sure some bunghole will find a way to critcize, scoff, or otherwise ridicule this….
O'Brien
October 20th, 2010
12:21 pm
one would think that Marvin could be a match up nightmare to opposing SF working from the blocks
This is why Rod from CP points out how frequently other teams put guards on him, from Kirk Hinrich to Ridnor. And Marvin still can’t excel against them.
I dont know how Marvin averaged 14 and 6 two years ago, but whatever it is, I hope LD has gone over the tape with him.
Bernie Matt
October 20th, 2010
12:22 pm
@ Truthspitter – YOU STUPID!
Ken Strickland
October 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
Everyone keeps barking about the Hawks needing a bigger Big, or more overall size to improve our DEF. While more size and a bigger Big certainly wouldn’t hurt, it’s not the answer to our DEF problems. The Nuggets had the same DEF problems we had, and thought just like most of you. So, they acquired MCamby, a 7′ shot blocking DEF minded center, who ended up leading the NBA in rebounding, shot blocking, and was named DEF player of the yr.
Yet, while his INDIVIDUAL DEF was outstanding, the overall team DEF wasn’t. Once they realized what the real problem was, POOR PERIMETER DEF, especially at PG, they quickly traded what they discovered was the problem, PG AIverson, for the solution, PG CBillups. They also traded their DEF POY, since the ACTUAL DEF problem, POOR PERIMETER DEF, had been resolved. The end result was an immediate defensive improvement.
I told this story to try and get those, who seem obsessed with thinking we absolutely must sign or trade for someone bigger and/or taller, to realize the fallacy in that line of thinking. There’s no player available to us that can compensate for the DEF jokes we call MBibby and Jamal Crawford, who are the primary culprits responsible for our extremely poor perimeter DEF.
While we can make it work with Jamal Crawford, because he’s such an OFF weapon, we just can’t afford to continue carrying Bibby. He has quickly gone from being a DEF LIABILITY to being a TOTAL LIABILITY. And why are some of you saying we must get bigger and/or taller in order to have a chance in the East, WHEN THE MIAMI HEAT’S STATING LINEUP IS SHORTER AND SMALLER THAN OURS? YET, WHILE EVERYONE IS CONCEDINGTHEM THE NBA TITLE, AND IT’S STILL PRESEASON, NO ONE HAS MADE THEIR LACK OF HEIGHT AND SIZE AN ISSUE.
JustAThought
October 20th, 2010
12:43 pm
Does anybody else get the feeling that if the hawks struggle early, the chances of re-signing Al is going to be more difficult, and subsequently he signs a offer sheet next summer and walks……If there is any chance he can get a max contract from another team, will he stay?
Najeh Davenpoop
October 20th, 2010
12:51 pm
“And why are some of you saying we must get bigger and/or taller in order to have a chance in the East, WHEN THE MIAMI HEAT’S STATING LINEUP IS SHORTER AND SMALLER THAN OURS?”
Arroyo/Chalmers are the same size as Teague.
Wade is shorter, but at least as strong, as Joe Johnson.
LeBron is much bigger than Marvin, even if he’s the same height.
Chris Bosh is taller than Josh, although both are skinny.
Joel Anthony is the same size as Horford, and Big Z is much bigger.
I don’t know where you are getting this from. The Heat have major size and strength advantages at SF and C, and they are roughly equal at PG, SG, and PF.
JustAThought
October 20th, 2010
12:52 pm
Ken, good points, but with probably 3 of the best 10 players in the league (which 2 can take the ball from end to end with the best and beat their man one on one) I don’t think size will be Miami’s problem.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 20th, 2010
12:54 pm
“I think Denver would go for this one, although I’m not sure if some of the fans would.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29gfzq3”
I’m thinking the opposite. I think that would be a great trade for the Hawks, assuming they could work out an extension with Melo, but I doubt that Denver will take on 4 years of Marvin.
JustAThought
October 20th, 2010
12:54 pm
We all know D.Wade and LeBron play BIG.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 20th, 2010
12:58 pm
“NBA rosters are small and the talent pool is also limited: consequently the absence of a hard cap makes a huge difference since any given roster plus one or minus one quality player can imply 10 wins more or 10 wins less.”
I think you hit on the main point here. A team like the Rangers can still put out a World Series quality team from time to time if they can pull off a Mark Teixeira trade, giving up a superstar for five legit prospects. In basketball that is impossible, since on the rare occasions superstars get moved, it is for cap space and draft picks. The main reason is that there is just way more quality talent per team in baseball when you take into account the farm systems. And in football, since good schemes can turn unknown players into contributors, essentially the talent pool is way higher as well.
The point I’m trying to get at is that the NBA really, really needs contraction. We’d all be much better off if four teams were eliminated from the league.
Sautee
October 20th, 2010
1:35 pm
Najeh,
Contraction for all Major League sports is an inevitability. The economy is not going to grow enough to sustain what we have.
If you lost your job, how many Hawks games could you attend (even with cutting corners on parking, food, etc.)???
cp
October 20th, 2010
1:40 pm
O’Brien and Big Ray, I would offer up Marvin in a trade right now and not look back. I don’t think LD’s offense will help Marvin with his other issues such as playing smaller than he is, not being aggressive, and deferring so much. Its a lot more to list but its not a need to. Marvin is what he is. I know some folks hold out hope that he will improve but Marvin just doesn’t have the drive to do it. Good kid average ball player. I would take Melo even for one year over Marvin but I doubt Denver wants Marv.
Section 303
October 20th, 2010
1:45 pm
truthspitter, if the Hawks trade a bag of balls to acquire Hasheem Thabeet, we should all stop caring about this team. Thabeet is just another ESPN creation. He played at UCONN, therefore, he must be good, right?
I was at the 2009 Final Four in Detroit. I watched Goran Suton run circles around that stiff. Thabeet could not guard Suton in any way, shape, or form. Goran Suton is not coming to an NBA arena near you anytime soon, by the way. It is no surprise Thabeet has proven to not be able to guard anyone in the NBA, either.
I’m all for finding a true center. But, I would rather find one who could actually contribute to the team. Not a taller version of Sheldon Williams.
Samuel
October 20th, 2010
1:48 pm
It was neither Bibby or Jamahl’s fault that basically our entire front line was destroyed trying to guard D Howard. It don’t get any easier with the big leprechaun either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnzZsEL69U
diet pape sy
October 20th, 2010
2:34 pm
Samuel
“I’m glad to be in sinc with people that actually know basketball”
I didn’t realize we were in sinc; but thanks, anyway.
G-dad
Ramon
October 20th, 2010
2:36 pm
Sautee, its funny that you keep pressing this issue, when PeachtreeHoops took away the same thing from his comments that I took away from them. As I said, if I say I live in ‘Atlanta, GA’. I just said that I live in United States of America.
cp
October 20th, 2010
2:38 pm
Lmao@Section 303. You have been on here long enough to know folks on here want size regardless if that guy can play. I never saw the hype with Thabeet other than being tall. During the summer league all Chris Webber kept saying was how robitical and stiff Thabeet was. He might improve one day but I see him being a bust.
cp
October 20th, 2010
2:40 pm
I guess it wasn’t Bibby or Jamal’s fault they were getting absolutely torched on the perimeter either huh. smh
Ramon
October 20th, 2010
2:46 pm
Najeh, I had been thinking about a trade like that for the last few days. However, I think the Nuggets would take the deal. Horford would be the first all-star player the Nuggets have been offered for Melo. And a franchise like Denver probably could buy out Bibby’s final two years with no problem. And its worth mentioning that Nene’s PER isn’t that much lower than Horford’s.
Grandad
October 20th, 2010
2:55 pm
Section 303
With all due respect, I would take Thabeet in a heartbeat.
(continue reading below)
cp
I saw HT play this summer as well.
You can’t expect 7-3 to play with the agility of 6-3.
The worst component of his game is his hands;
but defensively, he matches up perfectly to our needs.
* Samuel *
* There appears to be an impersonator on board.
* [the real G-dad]
Sautee
October 20th, 2010
3:05 pm
Ramon,
So you now admit that what you posted is “what you took” from his comments?
See how easy this is?
And if I were a poster at peachtree hoops, AND if they posted that Al had “stated” those things, I’d be wranging with them as well. But I don’t blog there.
Got a link to the peachtree hoops article / blog that discussed this?
And about this:
“As I said, if I say I live in ‘Atlanta, GA’. I just said that I live in United States of America.”
Actually that is incorrect. If you SAID “I live in Atlanta, GA” then you INFERRED that you live in the US but you did NOT SAY that you did.
Geez, I can’t believe that you don’t know the difference. In fact, I think you know all too well what the difference is, but you think you’ll somehow lose face or something by admitting it. Too bad, because you are a good blogger with much to offer when you are keeping it real. But posting that Al “stated” those things is NOT keeping it real.
Sautee
October 20th, 2010
3:09 pm
I misspelled “wrangling” in my last post. My bad.
Barry
October 20th, 2010
3:09 pm
Hey Y’all:
They should have gotten Shaq!!! Done deal! No more comment!!
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
This is a SECRET from a HAWK FAN. TELL EVERYBODY!!!!!!!
…………………….”SHOCK THE WORLD!!!”………………..
bigdave
October 20th, 2010
3:11 pm
Big Ray..
thats funny, i have some Sun and Lao Tzu quotes in stone on the walls in my bathroom..
he needs something. honestly, i dont see that dog in any of our players.. Josh at times, but he just doesnt have the complete game for it to manifest into rings..
Jerrywest
October 20th, 2010
3:12 pm
If Magic buys the Hawks, he’ll probably trade Al and Smoove to the Lakers for a 2nd round pick.
bigdave
October 20th, 2010
3:20 pm
O’brien..
simply a lack of respect. he did Ridnour though and was our top performer in the game 5 vs. Mil.
bigdave
October 20th, 2010
3:21 pm
to a degree players have to be held accountable for what they want to make of there careers. at this level most have the God given tools to excel but lacking the will, drive, and desire to be the best. i call it the “Complacent Cousins Syndrome”. donned after a pair of super talented underachievers Mac and Carter..
everything from your diet, to time spent in the gym.. it separates the Kobe’s from the rest.
Fresh
October 20th, 2010
3:21 pm
LOL @ this Sautee vs Ramon argument that has been going on for the last week or so.
bigdave
October 20th, 2010
3:21 pm
*their
truthspitter
October 20th, 2010
3:29 pm
The good thing is that real men no when to say they are wrong. 30 games into the NBA season when Thabeet is putting up better numbers than Zaza I want you guys to apologize to me. It’s not like I said trade an all-star for Thabeet. I said Zaza who is really non existent when it comes to defense and a pick preferable a 2nd rd pick at that. How is that a bad deal when they will basically be making the same salary over the next 3 years? You will pay Thabeet $1 million more each year than what you are currently paying Zaza. Be men and apologize to me when you see Thabeet’s improvement
Dept. of Unintended Irony
October 20th, 2010
3:34 pm
“The good thing is that real men no when to say they are wrong.”
Yeah, but do they “know”?
Yes or know?????
Ken Strickland
October 20th, 2010
3:34 pm
NAJEH-JJ is bigger and taller than DWade, and I don’t know how you feel you’re able to measure the comparative strength of the two. And since when did DWade’s speculative equal strength change the fact JJ is taller and bigger than DWade? When did you decide to make Ilgoukas the starting center, especially when JAnthony, who’s 6′9″ and listed as the #1 center on their depth chart, has started every preseason gm so far?
Marvin is 6′9″ with a 7′ wing span, and Lebron is only 6′8″ tall, which makes Marvin taller in inches and reach. Again, trying to use a player’s aledged strength to try and make your case won’t cut it. Suppose I tried to imply JSmith was taller than CBosh by saying he appears to be stronger and jumps higher. All of this proves some of our fans have an entirely different set of rules, assumptions and expectations for the Hawks than they have for other teams, even under the same set of circumstances.
Ramon
October 20th, 2010
3:47 pm
Sautee, when a person is using quotations it is understood they’re saying what the individual said SPECIFICALLY. When a person states that someone said anything without quotation, they’re giving a general translation of what the individual said. So any time you say someone said something you’re already ‘inferring’ if you didn’t use quotations, because you didn’t record what they said directly. Specific = quotations, general = no quotations, that is already understood in the small thing we call the English language.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
3:51 pm
Nutrition is Key!
BigDave said:
“everything from your diet, to time spent in the gym.. it separates the Kobe’s from the rest.”
Hallelulah! Finally somebody get’s it! I am actually tired of saying it.
If you put regular petroleum in a Porsche?
The Porsche will sputter and not show any peak performances.
When, your only job is to perform a sport in an Arena, you owe it to the
Fans to put the best product out there. In Nascar, the Winner’s Car is evaluated after the Win, to measure every aspect of the vehicle:
The Spoiler
The Engine Parts
The Tires
The Fuel
The Catalytic Converter
The wind and turbine effects
The height of the Frame, Chasis and Strutts
Etc.
The Olympian is tested for Performance Enhancements, and disqualified for even blood doping, used to increase oxygen levels.
So, why would a world class NBA Champion eat cheeseburgers, fries and KFC?
But, they do it all the time, daily and after practices. Heck,
BigDave, they even make the Rookies bring the buckets of KFC and Double-Downs to the practices, as part of Rookie Hazings! What message does that send to the new player? Chicken & Biscuits Rule?
This is an area of personal responsibility that the NBA’s didn’t stick around in college long enough to learn. They play on raw talent and when their knees blow out and hamstrings tear? They don’t make those connections.
Well, Dwight Howard does and so does Kobe, Ray Allen, Tony Gonzalez and ‘Nem! Great Job and introspective – Big-D!
Grandad
October 20th, 2010
4:23 pm
Dept. of Unintended Irony
“Yes or know?????”
If I only “new” the answer to that?
Sautee
October 20th, 2010
4:27 pm
Ramon,
Nice try. Really.
About this: “When a person states that someone said anything without quotation, they’re giving a general translation of what the individual said.”
Try to find one of your definitions of “states” that covers “general translation”.
You won’t find it.
If you admit that what you said was a “general translation” of Horford’s words then I’ll let this go.
Dept. of Unintended Irony
October 20th, 2010
4:31 pm
Grandad,
Who gnu?
newkid
October 20th, 2010
5:00 pm
Not only did he sell his stake in the Lakers for a reported $35M+, Magic is also reported to have sold his suite of Starbucks restuarants (85 or so) for north of $100M. He may not – or may – be interested in the Hawks, but for certain he’s up to something big.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 20th, 2010
5:50 pm
Newkid
Wow! It does sound like “The Real Magic” is divesting -sp & going liquid.
My question is: With the unreliable Wall Street and early withdrawal penalties, where does one hide 135M?
Is he putting it in T-Bills, US Bonds, Home Safe or his mattress?
A better question is: Is Magic looking to buy a larger stake of a NBA Franchise?
I know that he is a very shrewd business man with a really good plan as has been reported. Unlike many of his cohorts who ended up destitute from poor money management skills or a lack thereof.
Samuel
October 20th, 2010
8:51 pm
Tell me this. If Bibby is so bad and LD is “anti-Woody” as far as being fair and not playing favorites, what does that say about Teague?
Ramon
October 20th, 2010
9:34 pm
Sautee, of course it was a general translation of it. That’s what a paraphrase is: a restatement of a text or passage giving the meaning in another form, as for clearness; rewording. So as I said, that’s what Horford said.