Atlanta Hawks: Magic 102, Hawks 73
Magic's D suffocated J.J. and company. (Curtis Compton / AJC)
– The Magic have the kind of program the Hawks are trying to build. Yes, they have a top five player and the Hawks don’t. Orlando is deeper than Atlanta. But the Magic might be underachievers, too, if Stan Van Gundy hadn’t molded them into a team where every guy is expected to bust their tail defensively all the time.
– “They are one of the best teams in the league because they can defend,” Marvin said. “They can flat-out guard. A lot of people say it’s because of their offense but it’s because they guard. They have a lot of energy on the defensive end, and that’s why they’re one of the top two or three teams.”
– It’s just a preseason game but beforehand L.D. talked about a “new attitude” for the Hawks against Orlando. There was no sign of that. “I don’t seem them fearing us at all,” Josh said. “That means we have to go back to the lab.”
– The Hawks had pretty good defensive energy for a couple quarters but couldn’t score. Then they couldn’t do either in the third quarter as the Magic put them away with 35 points.
– Not sure if this is irony but it was weird to see: Some of Atlanta’s best shooters passed on open shots and instead kept passing the ball around until someone was forced to shoot late in the clock. Marvin was a major offender. From Iso-Joe to meaningless motion?
– “Very, very surprised,” L.D. said. “We have got some guys that can make shots and under no circumstances do I want guys hesitating on their shots.”
– J.J. was having a very good preseason and suddenly he’s clanking open shots off the front of the rim. Al had played smart offense but now he was forcing it while also picking up bad fouls. Jamal missed several runners in the lane.
– You see stuff like that and start to wonder if the Hawks have a mental block when it comes to Orlando. Then you see that third quarter and you are reminded the Magic are just a lot better than the Hawks one through 10.
– You could hear some echoes of May 2009 in much of what L.D. said after. On the third quarter: “We collapsed defensively.” On the lack of offense: “We missed a lot of shots but we had some good looks.” On the team’s psyche: “We got upset when shots weren’t going down and then we started forcing things. I said, ‘Look, guys, it’s a long season. The true test for us is how we weather those type storms.’”
– At least it’s still the preseason and not the East semifinals. “That team is on a mission and we’ve got to get like that,” L.D. said. “They are certainly a measuring stick. They are playing at a high level, they are playing with a lot of intensity. They getting the job done now. They are now waiting until the start of the regular season. That’s where we have to get to.”
– Al, Zaza, Twin and Etan all took their turns on Dwight. Even Smoove checked on a couple possessions. Howard got his but the Hawks weren’t helped by quick whistles on some touch fouls against him.
– Twin showed a little something against Dwight and Gortat. He’s moving better now and Dwight doesn’t like it when big bodies stay in front of him. You know he’s bothered when he starts griping to the refs each time he doesn’t score.
– Atlanta trailed just 44-34 at the half despite missing 29 of 41 shots. “I told them at halftime if you continue the consistency defensively and make some shots, you will be right there,” L.D. said.
– But the Hawks missed 14 of 21 shots in the third while Orlando was 11 of 18. The Magic closed the period with a 25-10 run, and Howard was on the bench for all but five of those points. The Magic had Atlanta scrambling with crisp passes until they got open shots.
– The thing about the Magic is even if you guard them well for most of a possession they can still score. Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis and J.J. Redick all made some tough shots late in the clock. The problem for the Hawks is their spirits sag when that happens, they miss bad shots and suddenly the Magic are off on a run.
– Orlando has won 20 straight preseason games, which might not mean much if they didn’t have a Finals and East finals to their credit in the last two years. “What’s been getting us through right now is our intensity and our defense,” Van Gundy said. “I think we’re defending hard, and we’re defending the ball. Our guys are really getting after it and that’s why we’re playing well right now.”
– Teague sat out again and is shooting to return Thursday against the Heat. Pape Sy still doesn’t know when he will be cleared to practice.
– I’m out, Hawks fans.
MC
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168 comments Add your comment
Hmmm
October 18th, 2010
11:10 pm
FIRST!
Hmmm
October 18th, 2010
11:11 pm
Do I get a free Hawks Bobblehead or sumthin’, MC?
I Heart Atlanta
October 18th, 2010
11:22 pm
I hope we do better on NATIONAL TV thursday
Go Hawks
Jae Evolution
October 18th, 2010
11:23 pm
The Hawks will continue to be a sub-par team, for the simple fact that they don’t defend for 48 MINUTES. Their defense come in spurts, and until they buy in on the ‘total-effort’ they will not become elite.
Sara
October 18th, 2010
11:34 pm
This happens every time the Hawks play Orlando. I just don’t get it at all. Why can’t we play DEFENSE against the Magic?
Biff Pocoroba
October 18th, 2010
11:35 pm
I bet Mike Woodson is glad that he doesn’t have to try and coach these guys again this year. This is going to be like a Paul Hewitt team with a lot of talent but no leadership or any kind of offense.
welikebaseball2
October 18th, 2010
11:50 pm
Actually Al is the best low post defender on the team. Idiotic management has just refused to add a legit center, so he’s forced to play out of position. Not his fault…and there’s no way we’re a better team without him. Are we a better team with him at power forward & a bigger body at center? Absolutely.
Im done with the Hawks
October 19th, 2010
12:16 am
Enter your comments here
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
12:20 am
The only good thing about losses like these, is that maybe only 2 or 3 teams in the league can be as efficient as Orlando is on both offense and defense. They were a top 3 offensive AND defensive team last year. Every team can’t do to us what the Magic do to us. But we’re not beating the top teams in a series, unless our “core” guys dramatically improve ( talking about JJ, Josh, and Horford ).
Still . . . it’s like the movie Groundhog Day when you watch the Hawks vs Magic. That game was almost a mirror image of how the games in the playoffs went. Couldn’t make open shots . . can’t berathe on Dwight . . can’t guard their shooters . . Orlando makes a good share of open shots . . Dwight goes at anybody pretty much at will.
Ownership had a golden chance to upgrade the personnel, but they chose to go with the status quo + promoting Drew and bringing in scrubs.
This team so desperately needs an inside presence who can either score down on the low block, or draw fouls to get to the FT line. Then they desperately need a great perimeter defender, preferably a guy who can defend the point.
Big Ray
October 19th, 2010
12:23 am
Not sure if this is irony but it was weird to see: Some of Atlanta’s best shooters passed on open shots and instead kept passing the ball around until someone was forced to shoot late in the clock. Marvin was a major offender. From Iso-Joe to meaningless motion?
Ok, so Marvin is still the Marvin we came to know. Or, is this the mental issue we have with Orlando?
– “They are one of the best teams in the league because they can defend,” Marvin said. “They can flat-out guard. A lot of people say it’s because of their offense but it’s because they guard. They have a lot of energy on the defensive end, and that’s why they’re one of the top two or three teams.”
WTF…who was the defensive dynamo guarding Marvin’s 6′9″ 245 lb butt? 6′5″ Quentin Richardson? Rashard Lewis? Ryan Anderson? Who? Stuff like this makes me want to scoff at every “he’ll be better under Larry Drew” comment. But I’ll wait. This entire team struggles against Orlando, so I’ll wait. For the next game.
Twin showed a little something against Dwight and Gortat. He’s moving better now and Dwight doesn’t like it when big bodies stay in front of him. You know he’s bothered when he starts griping to the refs each time he doesn’t score.
Translation: Zaza, your minutes are going down. Especially against teams with bigger centers.
Big Ray
October 19th, 2010
12:26 am
I bet Mike Woodson is glad that he doesn’t have to try and coach these guys again this year. This is going to be like a Paul Hewitt team with a lot of talent but no leadership or any kind of offense.
Considering Paul Hewitt is a college coach and therefore recruits who plays for him, this analogy doesn’t make much sense to me…
Big Ray
October 19th, 2010
12:27 am
Ownership had a golden chance to upgrade the personnel, but they chose to go with the status quo + promoting Drew and bringing in scrubs.
Sums it up, right there.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
12:29 am
I guess we all better be careful of drinking the Kool-Aid. It may have been made in Guyana by Jim Jones ( the fake evangelical mass murderer, not the lame rapper ).
Google “Jim Jones Guyana” . . if you have no idea what I’m talking about.
mykhalc
October 19th, 2010
12:52 am
sad…
Ken Strickland
October 19th, 2010
1:24 am
Yet another beat down by the Magic, but hey, there’s a silver lining. The Bulls, who many say have improved enough to surpass the Hawks, got a far, far worse beat down by the Magic than we got. I really liked what I saw of JPowell, and Twin didn’t do too bad himself. The Magic really exposed the extremely poor DEF efforts of Bibby and Jamal.
But, at least Jamal will give you scoring, which at least helps neutralize the opposing player he’s suppose to be defending. It looks like all of the crying and whinning DHoward did last yr during and after the 1st rd series against the Bobcats has paid off. Even though it was only a preseason gm, the refs didn’t allow the Hawks to touch him, and he was the only one to receive that type of special treatment.
Another good that seems to be manifesting itself, as a result of our new OFF approach, is the increased number of fouls we’ve been drawing and free throws we’ve been receiving, especially JJ. All we have to do now is to start making our FT’s.
Clyde Jr.
October 19th, 2010
2:02 am
What does awaiting moderation mean?
Clyde
October 19th, 2010
2:04 am
SHAKING MY GOT DAM HEAD
THE ATLANTA SPIRIT TOLD THE AJC TO TAKE MY POSTS DOWN. I THOUGHT THIS WAS A FAN BLOG.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 19th, 2010
3:09 am
“I guess we all better be careful of drinking the Kool-Aid. It may have been made in Guyana by Jim Jones ( the fake evangelical mass murderer, not the lame rapper ).”
So I guess what you’re trying to say is that the Hawks are not BALLINNNNNNNN?
doc
October 19th, 2010
3:12 am
clyde how do you know or are you being paranoid?
TheAntiMe
October 19th, 2010
3:47 am
The Hawks have used their loss to Orlando in the Eastern Conference semifinals last May as motivation for this season.
If this is how the Hawks play when they are motivated then it’s going to be a very long season.
Big Daddy
October 19th, 2010
5:08 am
This was painful to watch on so many different levels. I have been watching several pre-season games on NBA-TV and even though it is pre-season, there have been crowds in the stands cheering for their home town team. Phillips Arena looked like this was a practice session. There were hardly any fans in the seats when it started and it did not get much better the rest of the game.
The Hawks looked like they were sleep walking the first few possessions and these were the starters. I understand they are getting use to a new system, but these are professionals and you can’t use they are a young team anymore. They are seasoned veterans and they should be able to play together better than they exhibited in last night’s game.
Jordan Crawford has shown that he can score but what is it with him and having the ball in his hands at the end of a quarter/half and acting like he is Michael Jordan. Instead of pushing the ball up toward the end of the first half he walked the ball up with the clock going down instead of passing it upcourt and took a shot just inside the mid-court line. Larry Drew was waiting for him when he came to the bench and he did not look happy.
Even if this is pre-season you want to see the team put forth the effort and the coach make adjustments that help the flow of the game. This was another reminder of how far we have to go. I hope the guys are not looking at this as just a don’t count pre-season game but a chance to hone our offense and defense because Orlando sure didn’t.
Big Ray
October 19th, 2010
5:55 am
But, at least Jamal will give you scoring, which at least helps neutralize the opposing player he’s suppose to be defending.
Ken ,
Did you see the box score last night? This happens more often than you might want to admit to…
Jeff Gibson
October 19th, 2010
6:39 am
Seven foot 2 inch Loren Woods was waived By Cleveland Caveliers on October 15th.
Also The Hawks had some very good rebounding players on Summer team James Augustine, Jamereo Davison Alade Aminu, Trey Gilder , Richard Hendricks as well as Randolph Morris.
The preseason gets you a little worried if you are a Hawks fan.
JustAThought
October 19th, 2010
6:43 am
Big Daddy, you didn”t expect a sell-out crowd did you? I’m loving it! Hey ASG, don’t worry about hiring movers, just make the anouncement and you’ll have plently of help.
JustAThought
October 19th, 2010
6:45 am
Or better yet! Just take your SH!T and LEAVE!
El Bravo
October 19th, 2010
6:52 am
I’m saving judgement for the regular season but, boy, they sure look awful in the pre-season. All the top teams are gearing up for the season playing at a high level (see Miami, Orlando, LA, et all) yet here we are having the same issues as last year. The most troubling aspect is our inability to maintain the defensive intensity for four quarters. I understand the problems adapting to a new offensive philosophy but defense is all about hustle. With the improved Heat, Bulls, Knicks and even Wizards (with Wall) this has the makings of a very long season…
Samuel
October 19th, 2010
7:07 am
Ken,
Is that the best you could come up with. That wasn’t even half full. You’re better than that.I would have thought you would have said that if we had Teague we would have beat them or that we were “tanking” to fool them. Come on Ken. That koolaid taste like my friends mama use to make it before they got they check. No sugar at all. Weak as hel_.
Freshfromatl
October 19th, 2010
7:31 am
Welp!!! If the Hawks don’t care then neither will I. I can find a lot of other things to spend my money on.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
October 19th, 2010
7:36 am
Phillips Arena- *** crickects, crickets *** ………. SMH !!!!!!!!
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
7:51 am
northcyde,
Although we got beat down by the Magic (again), look on the bright side. We didn’t disrupt our Chemistry (or overpay) by bringing in Shaq (SMH at the ASG).
The interesting thing is we know Shaq would have been fired up to play Orlando, and Dwight would not get as many calls against him.
Also, we see how a guy like Matt Barnes would have been helpful. He brings energy on the defensive end, you know he would be fired up to play his former team, and on nights when Marvin goes 1-10, he would have been a great substitute.
But, these are the cards the ASG has dealt Drew, so he has to make the most of it.
Two good things from this beatdown is 1) It’s pre-season and 2) it allows Drew to reinforce how far we have to go as a team, and the things we need to work on before we can be considered ECF contenders.
tremaine
October 19th, 2010
7:54 am
I know its just preseason but doesn’t this team look worse than last year?
Myrak43
October 19th, 2010
7:55 am
It has been 7 years and we still don’t have a Center or a point guard. I would trade this whole team for a starting Center and a point gaurd…… I don’t know if I can take another year of this.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
8:00 am
Big Daddy, about the crowds, “I could careless if you showed up.”
dukester
October 19th, 2010
8:11 am
Ok I have said once or 1000 times not sure. But Defense starts inside out. Look at all of the sports that has a goal and a net. Hockey, Soccer: They have a goalie sitting right on top of the net and his only job is to play defense. Even on football the better defenses have a big 6′5″ 350 lbs nose tackle in the middle of the defense. The reason Orlando can play great defense is because on the perimeter they can play close on the ball because they know if you beat them off the dribble that they have a great shot blocker to back them up at the basket. Remember we had Dikembe Motumbo he extended our defense out. Him and Mookie Blaylock were great as a duo on defense. Mookie and his steals kept guards from even thinking about driving to the basket. So for the 1000th time go find a center. Mmm lets see Tyson Chandler was traded for bag of basketballs, Couple of years ago Marcus Camby was traded for shoe laces. Whiteside was available in the draft(Yes he is a rookie but he has shown to be active around the basket). I mean several times ASG had the chance to cure this disease but they didnt. They chose to resign Bibby, Marvin and Zaza. (15+ million pissed away on 3 bench players).
tremaine
October 19th, 2010
8:11 am
If you go see a movie and it sucked, would you waste your money and go back and see the same movie again? Theses are the same hawks from last year. Why would you expect things to get better against Orlando with a rookie coach? ASG proved during the offseason that they don’t care about contending. They just want to be good enough to sell tickets.
jason
October 19th, 2010
8:13 am
Fire LD. Our flaw last year wasnt offense, it was defense. Yet LD wants to change thaty. 79 points? are u kidding me? last year we averaged about 103 ppg. burt now LD has ruined it. The good side is that we are getting the number 1 pick in the draft.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
8:19 am
I have not seen any of the pre-season games, but looking at some of the shooting numbers is disturbing. FT numbers:
Game 1: 27-44 (61%), Game 2: 18-26 (69%),
Game 3: 6-15 (40%), Game 4: 23-34 (68%),
Game 5: 22-29 (76%),
Thats a 63% average on free throws for the pre-season. Its one thing to struggle learning a new offense, its one thing that guys are playing banged up, but no excuse for being that bad at FTs.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
8:30 am
O’Brien, Free throws are all preperation and concentration. I question if the Hawks have players that even care about FT’s. They have struggled for years. Last night was awful. But, so was every other part of the game, so….why should FT’s be any different?
This team is poised for huge fall this year, guys. Brace yourself!
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
8:32 am
2 for John Drew, “I could careless if you showed up.”
Really, no one can rip the fans for not turning out anymore. The alleged leader, making all the jack, told the fans he doesn’t care if they come or not. Fine. Then, when they don’t come, don’t complain.
Melvin
October 19th, 2010
8:43 am
Maybe the ASG can hire this guy to be the new Harry the Hawk…
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Pepperdine-guard-Keion-Bell-dunks-over-seven-peo;_ylt=AnMmQNwpdtUS4×8tMTE9cVjevbYF?urn=ncaab-277687
Double Zero Eight
October 19th, 2010
8:45 am
The Hawks should have gotten a proven veteran coach. The players do not respect or believe in Larry Drew. They are just going through the motions. We should have made a sincere effort to get “Shaq”. It is going to be “more of the same” from the Hawks this year. We will hear excuse after excuse as to why they will not improve this year, (new system, injuries, etc). If we were not going to upgrade the coach, we would have been better off keeping Mike Woodson. This coaching change
will be another failed experiment by Hawks management.
Fundamentals
October 19th, 2010
8:48 am
We need a solid product to expect fans to show. No effort, no chance of moving forward, no attitude, Yeah, I want to watch that.
Sadly I will, but will the average fan – NO!.
i_am_soulstar
October 19th, 2010
8:55 am
Yes, noticed a lot of open shooter pass up shots. Hawks have to find a happy medium between isolation play and motion offense. It’ll take time. They did play some excellent defense in the 1st half. All downhill from there though.
Every fan, player, and GM knows that this team needs a trade.
yodaddy
October 19th, 2010
8:56 am
I hope they don’t match up with Orlando in the playoffs….
I pray some team knocks the Magic off
Buddy Grizzard
October 19th, 2010
8:58 am
The 50-point demolition by Orlando in the preseason last year set the tone for the whole season. The Hawks are talented enough to be a second-tier team but nowhere near talented enough to be contenders. Remember, if Andrew Bogut didn’t get injured last year the Hawks wouldn’t have made it out of the first round to get embarrassed by Orlando. The Hawks are similar in talent level to Milwaukee, nor Orlando.
Buddy Grizzard
President & Founder, The Rick Sund Glue Factory Committee
$7m a season for Bibby? $120m for a non-superstar?
Thanks for crippling our franchise for the next 6 years Rick!
BBgenie
October 19th, 2010
8:58 am
No excuses for this ASS Kicking! These are the same Magic players who came to your Town, your Home court, and Ripped Your F_____g Hearts Out. And this is your PayBack! WOW! If the Hawks think they can Push a Button and begin the play like an Elite team. It’s going to be a Long Ass Season. Defense Wins games!!!!!!! Period. I guess they can’t Blame Woody Now????? I Don’t think the New Offense will work with this Bunch!!!! Let’s see how we bounce back on Thursday night vs Heat.
Pissed Hawks Fan
October 19th, 2010
9:05 am
WTF HAWKS.. I’m tired of you telling what your going to do or what you’re working on, SHOW ME!!!!
J. Smith. “I don’t seem them fearing us at all …That means we have to go back to the lab.”?? Are you serious?? They don’t fear you because in 5 years you haven’t shown you can match them and they are better than you are (PERIOD!). They are better than you because they actually work and improve, and not just keep working on the same stuff over and over, and still can’t get it right.
I hope we suck this year so they can break up this bad core group!!
JeJe
October 19th, 2010
9:08 am
FIRE WOODY
truthspitter
October 19th, 2010
9:16 am
tremaine
October 19th, 2010
8:11 am
If you go see a movie and it sucked, would you waste your money and go back and see the same movie again? Theses are the same hawks from last year. Why would you expect things to get better against Orlando with a rookie coach? ASG proved during the offseason that they don’t care about contending. They just want to be good enough to sell tickets.
Co-sign
Whom ever this Tremaine character is has just giving a great post and analogy. Most of all it was the truth, thanks Tremaine and you are welcome around here anytime. Finally, the Hawks suck GoatBalls.
truthspitter
October 19th, 2010
9:26 am
Hopefully we get a center out of the lottery this year because that is where we are headed
SadDawg
October 19th, 2010
9:26 am
I had a business partner one time, who was discussing an employee with me. I told him that the girl had told me she would do better at getting along with co-workers.
My partner just said, “a leopard can’t change it’s spots.”
I’m afraid that LD won’t be able to change these Hawks’ spots, either. Apparently,neither money, pride, nor even the knowledge that defense is THE key to being successful in the NBA, can make these Hawks commit to playing good defense.
I learned another lesson while in business, and that’s you can’t make a worker care more by paying them more. They either care or they don’t.
You would think after getting the max deal, JJ would be playing like his pants are on fire. He displays no leadership, and one would think he is the least-paid player on the court. All of that money didn’t make him care.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
9:27 am
It’s like I said last night. The only strategic move that I can see LD making against the Magic, is to possibly start one our bigger centers against the Magic, and bring Horford off the bench ( but still play him his regular amount of minutes ).
If it turns out that Collins defends him the best, then start “Twin” against Howard. Horford can’t defend nor score effectively against Dwight, so maybe switching the lineup around to give him a more favorable matchup throughout the game, is the way to go.
That will put an extra burden on JJ, Marvin, Josh, and possibly Teague ( if he’s the starter ), to carry the offensive load for the first 4 – 6 minutes of each half.
We’re better off playing it like that, than to lose Horford for a significant amount of time in the 1st half, because he’s picked up 2 quick fouls.
If Al can’t play a lot bigger against Dwight, then something drastic has to be done . . . period. Just can’t keep doing the same ish over and over, and expect it to work.
And folks, if Horford has to go up against Shaq, be prepared to see something similar.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
9:32 am
I’m concerned that the Hawks haven’t topped 95 points since the first pre-season game. Who cares about being less predictable if you are less effective putting the ball in the basket? The object is to score points and stop the other team from scoring as many… not to run a Harlem Globetrotter weave while putting up 94 points. I wasn’t particularly focused on the won-lost record during the pre-season, but now I’m feeling like we need to win these next 2 games to enter the real season with a proper level of confidence. I’d be very concerned if the trend continues and we enter the season with 1-2 pre-season wins and a lack of scoring.
tune me out
October 19th, 2010
9:36 am
The Hawks are mediocre. They fired Woodson and put his assistant (who probably couldn’t even get an assistant’s job with any other NBA team)in charge. They did nothing to improve their team. I’m guessing this year they win 38 to 40 games tops and miss the play-offs. I’m amazed that anyone would pay good money to go watch this team.
Blue
October 19th, 2010
9:42 am
Oh boy … It’s going to be a long season.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
9:45 am
Here’s a question, if Horford is truly seeking Durant like money on an extension, when he’s clearly not worth that amount, are the chances greater that his days with the Hawks are numbered after the season?
Samuel
October 19th, 2010
9:46 am
Joe,
I agree. It’s not so much that we are losing but it’s that we haven’t looked good in “any” game against any opponent. They look defeated and tired.
Can we please stop calling Al an allstar. Allstars don’t get owned like that.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
9:47 am
northcyde,
Somebody suggested the same thing last year (I can’t remember who it was). Start somebody else at Center for the first four minutes or so, and then bring Horford in.
AJ,
Maybe Teague is the missing link to get that 95 points like you said. We need him healthy these last 2 games, so Drew can have an idea of what to expect from him, because it’s hard to tell after summer league and one preseason game.
I havent seen the games, but from looking at box-scores, and reading the comments, I can’t help but wonder if Jordan is a better option at PG than Bibby (even if Drew sees JC2 as a SG).
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
9:51 am
That win we got against them last March may have been due to the Magic being ice cold from 3 most of the game ( although they heated up at the end ), than anything we did scheme wise.
Sometimes, the game is simply about making shots, and getting timely stops. So at some point, either JJ or Jamal is going to have to have a monster game against the Magic, in order to keep us within striking distance.
And it doesn’t matter if that comes from within a motion offense, quick shooting off of fast breaks, or via the hated isolation offense. Because Howard effectively renders both Horford and Josh useless on the offensive end, our scoring guards are going to have to keep us close.
We don’t have the luxury to throw it into the post, so that WE could actually get Dwight in foul trouble ( which was the major reason to bring in Shaq ), so the guards and Marvin ( hopefully ) will have to keep us close on offense.
It still comes down to defending this team though. Ownership may have to bring in a player . . or two . . to balance this team out defensively.
I find it interesting that after a blowout loss, that Marvin always seems to be the most talkative.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
9:52 am
Ramon,
Rudy Gay also got the Kevin Durant extension (5 years, $80+ mil), and we know he isn’t worth it either, so I don’t blame Al for seeking the max.
But I don’t think his days are numbered as a Hawk, because he is restricted free agent. So whoever offers him a contract, the Hawks can match. And I don’t see Al telling the Hawks NOT to match.
I would like to see him accept something slightly more than Noah though. Maybe 5 years, $65 mil?
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
9:53 am
O’Brien, JC2 at PG would be the equivalent of when Flip ran PG in spurts. And there would not be any ball movement, back door passes, lobs or anything. And when opposing team’s pg decided to press the issue back court it lead to a lot of uneven things. I will say going into this season, that is where Chills would’ve played such a nice role, because his last 2 seasons he was our PG late in the games. Maybe the Hawks should try and see if they can make a trade to get AJ back from Orlando.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
9:54 am
OB, your JC2 comment is what I was saying last week and why I was not happy with Drew’s “he’s not competing for PG minutes” comment. And if an untested young PG is the lynch-pin for this offense, then heaven help us. Dude can’t get in foul trouble, can’t get hurt and can’t get the flu. Our team’s hopes ride on a minimum wage coach and an untested PG who has a personal dog whisperer. EGADS!
Wouldn’t it be funny if we were to find out that Drew tried to sell Woody on this offensive scheme and Woody felt like the Hawks didn’t have the personnel to run it properly, and therefore opted for something he thought would work better with the roster? No doubt, wayyyy too early to draw any conclusions… but if nothing else, I really thought this team would put points on the board.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
9:57 am
O’Brien, I could see that being a good deal. But Al isn’t in the $70 million range yet. But the problem is on the free market another team will offer Al the max contract. I could see a team like Minnesota offering him a contract like that, or New York even. When it gets to that point you have no leverage as a team to get anything back in a deal.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
10:01 am
AJ, Woody was part to blame for the roster that he was given. Woody chose Speedy over drafting a PG. Before the Bibby trade, Woody had Law, AJ, and Lue at the PG. And while three seasons ago it wasn’t the case, now Law and AJ may be better than Bibby. Also while LD has been saying JC2 isn’t a PG, he’s still been playing him at the position the last two games after he made the statement. So at least we see he’s not as hard headed as Woody was.
J from the A
October 19th, 2010
10:04 am
IMHO the main problems the Hawks have is depth.
We have 5 QUALITY rotational payers: (1) Joe Johnson (2) Al Horford (3) Josh Smith (4) Jamal Crawford (5) Marvin Williams*
Depending on the progress of Teague, we may be able to add him to this list before the end of the season. Jordan looks promising but it is way too premature to add him to this list. Bibby is all but done. I am still hoping to see good things out of Mo this year, but even with improvement, he would be borderline whether he makes this list.
So, how do we expect to compete with Championship-caliber teams when these Championship-caliber teams are solid 1-10 and we don’t even have a solid 1-6.
*Marvin makes the list because he is a decent role player. Yes, I realize he is a bit of a bust considering where he was picked in the draft, but he is without any doubt, at minimum, a quality rotational/role player.
J from the A
October 19th, 2010
10:07 am
If Teague breaks out this year, we will have one of the best starting 5 in the league. Our starting 5 is not the problem (assuming Teague improves and replaces Bibby); it is our depth (see above).
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
10:10 am
Ramon, 3 seasons ago, Bibby got us in the playoffs. Law was frequently hurt, AJ was out of shape. I understand that Bobby is bad now, but let’s not pretend that he was instrumental in bringing us from a non-playoff team into one that many “assume” will make the playoffs. And I’m still waiting for Acie to prove Woody wrong. Now that he’s with his 4th (or 5th) team. To blame Woody for the past roster is to blame Drew for the current one… including Pape Sy as the projected 3rd PG over someone who is a proven PG in the NBA.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
10:15 am
AJ, I’m not saying Bibby didn’t do what he was brought here for. I’m saying, Woody couldn’t use the excuse he wasn’t given personnel at the PG position.
GeeMack
October 19th, 2010
10:20 am
MEMO to the Atlanta Hawks: You are not the Los Angeles Lakers!
You can not afford to cruise through the preseason.
You do not have the most decorated head coach in the history of the NBA.
You do not the have an on court leader who is obsessed with being the greatest player ever.
You do not have the best defensive player in the league the last decade.
You do not have a player that can match the skill level of the 7ft Spinard.
You do not have an owner that’s more obsessed with winning than the best player in the league.
Atlanta Hawks with the way you exited the playoff, you should approach the preseason like it was the NBA finals.
doc
October 19th, 2010
10:20 am
AJ that said, is bibby worth the 45 million it has cost us? or did we shoot our wad too quickly in getting him instead of being patient and finding something else for the long run? remember because of his 15 mil contract the following year after getting into the playoffs,we couldnt really negotiate with chills, i still propose. was it worth it and was he really the difference that year as he came in out of shape because he had been sidelined with an injury to his thumb and promptly got hurt injuring an ankle and hobbled around a whole lot during our “run” to the playoffs. by attrition we got in as a sub-500 team over the equally inept pacers.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
10:21 am
AJ, Woody had no interest in being a farmer type chef. He seemed to want to be more of a grocery store type chef. He doesn’t want to develop the talent. He mainly wants to go and get the players who are already ready to cook. However most championship organizations are great at developing players, especially as role players. San Antonio, LAL, Boston, and Orlando.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
10:21 am
Yeah O’Brien . . . I think someone on here did mention something like that. I mean, Woody had to do that with Royal Ivey, when he would start games for defensive purposes, to allow Tyronn Lue to do his thing as a scorer.
Even if Drew has to start Jamal, he has to change the mix up.
As you know, we have personnel issues that scheme just won’t solve. So against THAT team, we have to do something drastically different and find the right personnel mix to keep games within striking range.
This ownership refused to bring in quality players, thinking the sole problem was Woody, so Drew will just have to get creative.
GeeMack
October 19th, 2010
10:23 am
J from the A
How in the world did the Heat go and get 3 of the top 15 players in the league and still put together a better bench that the Hawks? SMH
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
10:24 am
Ramon, I don’t think anyone suggested that (did they)? And the result was a playoff berth, a thrilling series against the Celtics, and subsequently, two home-court playoff berths. I’m of the opinion that this “sacred core” was fully optimized (at least in the regular season). And that our playoff ceiling has always been the 2nd round. Hiring the lead assistant isn’t likely going to alter that ceiling, at least that’s my opinion. A summer of small incremental moves isn’t going to lead to a break-through against the conference’s elite, at best, we’ll lose better.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
10:26 am
J from the A,
Good point about depth. Fans have been saying the same thing for years (its possible Woody was saying it too).
Our backup SF is a SG, our 2 PGs are one over the hill vet and one untested second year player, and we still need quality size in the frontcourt.
Ramon,
With the new CBA looming, another team will not be able to offer Al the kind of money the Hawks can offer. And I dont think Minny or NY will have the cap space anyway.
And the bottomline is, the Hawks can go over the cap to re-sign their players, so they can match any offer to Al.
Chicken Little
October 19th, 2010
10:28 am
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
GeeMack
October 19th, 2010
10:28 am
northcyde
What must happen for the owners to see that core group has reached it’s celing?
The Hawks don’t have the personnel make up of a champioship team, but some how the front office and ownership sees different.
Sautee
October 19th, 2010
10:30 am
Ramon,
Once again, which definition of “States” or Stated” would you prefer?
Let’s get to the bottom of this before the season starts.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
10:32 am
doc, I think history shows us that many teams reach the threshoild of making the playoffs but never quite cross the line. Was Bibby worth around 15 home playoff games int he last 3 years? I think the ASG would give an emphatic “YES”. The Warriors had one magical season and then fell off. Memphis has steadily improved but they are a team that could desparately use someone like the Mike Bibby of 3 years ago to get them in the playoffs. Portland needed an older Andre Miller (and they haven’t made the 2nd round yet). I have no regrets about bringing Bibby in 3 years ago. None whatsoever.
Hawks73
October 19th, 2010
10:39 am
Can’t say that I am surprised by the result. I don’t have anything against Larry Drew, but it’s obvious that the Spirit hired him because he was “the cheapest” available coach to them (and familiarity). The focus has been on Drew’s “motion offense” which will take several months (if ever) for these Hawks to grasp, but where’s the D? I believe the Hawks were fairly decent offensively last year, but it was the lack of tenacity on D that was their ultimate downfall. To try and disingenuously create hype for an offense that wasn’t needed is to neglect the real problem, defense.
I guess we will have to see how this plays out, but it will be extremely difficult for Drew to change this teams identity (which has always been a one-on-one O). The way I look at is like this, they will either take to it immediately or struggle and changes will have to be made (to the overall core of this team).
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
10:43 am
AJ, I think Bibby was exactly what we needed at the time. When Bibby came, a few plays were added to the playbook as well (the backdoor screen lob to Josh for one). I’m simply saying if 2 GMs want to fire you, and you outlast one, but not the 2nd. Then chances are your excuses (Woody’s) won’t add up to much value. The fact that he rarely got any consideration for COY shows that majority of the league thinks he never reached the maximum potential with the roster.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
10:52 am
Ramon, Woody needed to go, that is undeniable. But just because Woody’s time was up, it doesn’t mean that every thing he did was wrong. It doesn’t mean that Acie was CP3, Solo was Chris Bosh or Salim was Nick Van Exel. It is possible that Woody needed to go AND those guys were not top 10 rotation players for a 50 win team.
And ask the most recent COYs about the value of that award.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
11:06 am
You’re right, they weren’t. The depth sucked. But the difference between a 47 win team and a 42 win team can be more health in the post season.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
11:12 am
The COY award helps even out the coffee table, lol.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
11:13 am
Ramon . . . every team you named went out and brought in high caliber players.
The Spurs don’t waste time developing people who don’t show signs of being ballers from Day 1. Guys like Dejuan Blair, George Hill, even Manu Ginobli showed early signs of being very nice players.
Boston traded their entire core except Pierce, to bring KG and Allen to Beantown. With no PG whatsoever, they had no choice but to develop Rondo
And the Lakers? Who have the Lakers developed?
The fact is that Woody played guys that proved to be productive.
Josh Smith was never expected to be a borderline All-Star. Jay Bilas called that dude “the most likely player to be a bust” on draft night in 2004. But I guess he wasn’t developed here.
And God knows that Marvin has been in a 5 year developmental program now.
But I guess because scrub players like Shelden, Acie, Salim, and Zaza never amounted to much, they weren’t developed?
Please man. The lies of this organization are about to be exposed, because the “Blame Woody” excuse CANNOT be used by anybody anymore.
Woody was not the GM of this team. Billy Knight and then Sund was. A guy that was on the proverbial hot seat since the 13 win season, couldn’t have had as much power as some of you think he had. And if he did, it proves that our GM’s are simply puppets, and can’t think for themselves.
Bottom line is that the ASG could’ve gotten this team some help, and they didn’t do it. Instead, they duped 70% of you fans in thinking that Mike Woodson was the sole problem with the Hawks.
It shouldn’t have taken ANOTHER blowout loss to the Magic to prove that Woody wasn’t the main problem around here.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
11:23 am
Section 303
Apparently you can’t read, hear or comprehend. Your so called qoute?
Is just that, your words and NOT what Mr. Johnson said nor meant, at all.
“I could careless (should be: care less) if the fans showed up or not.”
Is a DAMNED LIE! If you need to repeat that lie on every post for some personal reasons, then maybe you should keep your money, stay home and get therapy.
No one owes you an apology, a win, a hug, a box of popcorn or anything else in Life or at a stupid Basketball game. So, just Stop it!
I once enjoyed all your fantastic posts, now I just keep scrollin’, which is a. Shame, because you once brought so much intellect to the discussions.
You’ve become almost as annoying as the T.S. – supposedly banned poster who posts whenever he likes. That is your tragedy. So, please stop telling The
Lies! If you want to post that qoute? Do so in context and entirety – for the
Love of Truth!
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
11:26 am
The ASG are codnucting an experiemtn. Something was broken between the caoch and the players. They needed to isolate one variable to determine the problem. They opted to focus this season on the players… by replacing the coach. Some think the ‘10-11 season will be a referendum on Woody… I suspect that it will show that the “sacred core” is (and has been) broken. The crazy notion about this experiment is that we may still not know if Drew is the right coach. But since he only has a 2-year guaranteed contract (at a low wage), I’m not sure that his performance is all that important to the ASG now. Meanwhile, we have to sit back and watch this experiment unfold. I’m predicting that we lose better against a superior opponent in the playoffs. I just think that will happen in the first round and not the second. So then the question becomes does losing in 6 or 7 against a better opponent in the 1st round make folk feel better than being swept away in the 2nd round?
I.MUS WRITE
October 19th, 2010
11:26 am
For the first time in years im not excited about the start of the Basketball season. Mainly because I see our team being worst than last year. After watching the preseason we still have many of the same problems
-No inside presence what so ever
-Marvin is still goofy and looks bad driving the ball
-Bibby is the slowest Pg in the league hands down
-ZaZa is still Zaza
-Teague has no jumper and looks so timid/confused-The dog…You cant teach this u have it or u dont
Its going to be a long season folks
EAST
1.Orlando 2.Miami 3.Boston 4.Chicago 5.Hawks 6.Milwaukee 7.Charolett 8.Wizards
I have the wizards at 8 but i wouldnt be suprised if we finish 3rd or 4th in our division………………………………………………
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
11:28 am
Geez, “conducting an experiment”… I need a spell-checker.
I.MUS WRITE
October 19th, 2010
11:30 am
Northcyde im glad you cleared that up about Jim Jones -I’ll bet most people were like why is Jim jones making Koolaid and not songs LMAO.
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
11:31 am
I hate to break it down into such a simple game when
you folks want to put personalities into into the argument.
[Yawl want to put a name wth the culprit]
Whereas an analyst needs to see #’s.
I’m neither a critic nor an analyst, just an old retired coach.
Orlando = 52% fg, & 47% from (3 pt)
Hawks = 30% fg, & [*18% from (3 pt) *atrocious]
That’s your ballgame, right there.
Argue psychological this or that.
Argue LD this or that.
Flip those #’s we win.
As a coach, the 1st one I pay attn to is *Orl. fg%.
*both (2 pt% & 3 pt%) then fix it.
[in othr words defense - including closing out]
Really it’s that simple + do-able.
(the offense will be fine…..*patience]
“A man’s wisdom gives him patience;
it is to his glory to overlook an *offense”
Proverbs 19:11
*[I don't think the quote is referring to the princeton]
Defensively Pape Sy will have a bigger impact than yawl’s
beloved JC2. Provided PS is not made out of balsa wood.
he must actually be able to get on the floor.
Jordan Crawford is proving to me that even though he may be
a “baller”, he may also be a raw product, who is a high volumn,
low % shooter, who has yet to learn to play with equal or better
talent. Not to mention defend. *(and he ain’t no pg)
In his defense, he reminds me of a smaller version of George Gervin.
[See there, I'm not slammim' the kid]
I.MUS WRITE
October 19th, 2010
11:35 am
Clyde you’re not that important lol- There is no conspiracy theory when it comes to your posts. Maybe when u post something other that “ROLL TIDE” or “FIRE WOODY” they would go through………..
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
11:41 am
AJ,
Also, just because Woody had to go, does not mean the core was good enough to make the ECF, and it does not mean that Drew was the right hire. But time will tell.
Doc,
It’s hard to quantify what Bibby meant to the team in terms of numbers. But he brought stability to the PG position, he brought a quiet type of confidence from his past experiences, and he was able to provide some leadership.
So I was definitely on board with trading for Bibby. I didnt think he should be resigned last year, but I can understand Rick and Woody wanting the continuity.
However, where Rick messed up was giving him a 3 year deal. If it was a 2 year deal, then Bibby could have been traded, along with Mo Evans, this off-season.
STEEL(Formerly VenomSpitter)
October 19th, 2010
11:46 am
Damn I gotta give it to drmaryb (*_*), we’ve had our problems in the past but she put it down on that last post.
*Whew* Lemme get some water
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
11:48 am
Or, we could let him play out this year, and then we would have Bibby, Mo, and Jamal coming off the books next year.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
11:52 am
Northcyde,, each of those teams still manage to develop players WHILE winning. People talk about Woody developing Josh (both), Marvin (sounds funny), and Al, but he did when the team wasn’t winning. Josh C and Josh S had no one to replace them through their mistakes, so he didn’t have anything to lose. They developed by playing and being able to play through their mistakes. Al was already developed and a man when he came in the league. His numbers now are very similar to his rookie year. So Woody pretty much went 5 years without developing any rookies (because both Joshes have been in the league going on 7 seasons). That is deeper than just Salim, Solomon, and Acie not being talented here or there. Acie came in the league with just as much talent as Jordan Farmar. Salim has just as much scoring ability as Nate Robinson.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
11:58 am
Astro . . . Drew gets a complete pass from me. Unless he just proves to be totally incompetent, this is all on the ASG and Sund.
To have a legit shot to not only add Avery Johnson, but also Shaq, and pass on both . . this is all on them.
This blowout doesn’t sour me on the Hawks. The Magic are destroying everybody. Teams like Chicago and Milwaukee can’t do that to us.
But it does mean that we are no closer to the Magic, than we were 5 months ago. They toy with us like no other team in the league can.
No time to sulk over the Magic though. A pissed off freight train will be in ATL on Thursday night. And he’s playing as hard as ever.
And then we have to immediately fly to Charlotte to play a top defensive team in the Bobcats.
I can’t wait to see this team in Memphis on Wednesday night. Even before last night, I thought that was a game that the Hawks could easily lose, because Memphis is good at home. If they can win on opening night, it would show me that they’re able to regain their focus and get the job done.
Rufus1
October 19th, 2010
12:00 pm
We will be fine…
Our problem is and has always been DEFENSE and Defensive effort. I think Jamal Crawford is a worse defender than Bibby and his minutes should be reduced because of that fact. He nor Bibby should be allowed to play against the Magic, because of the defensive problems they create. I also don’t think Al and Josh need to be on the floor at the sametime against the Magic, neither are big enough to defend D12.
Why we will be fine….
1)We Lost to the Magic(SUPRISE)..They have own the us.
2)We are still learning a new offense.
3)We have team full jump shooters,no one who takes the ball to the rim and breaks the defense down and creates easy baskets(Maybe Teague will be the answer)
4) The Last and most important fact………………………… Their is only ONE ORLANDO MAGIC TEAM IN THE NBA.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
12:10 pm
Ramon, at the heart of your argument seems to be a belief that any player can be developed into a rotational player for a top 4 team in a conference. All it takes is playing time and pretty much any player can become good enough to contribute. I fundamentally disagree with that premise.
Gwinnett Fred
October 19th, 2010
12:13 pm
That picture really tells a story.
It captures about 10% of the arena and I count nineteen people in attendance.
Yep- folks are really impressed with bringing back JJ.
I know it’s pre season, but really!
reality
October 19th, 2010
12:17 pm
same old sad ass hawks. changes made in offseason did not address weaknesses last year…when we got drilled by orlando four straight…congrats joe johnson, max contract going to let you drift into the non factor sunset on a team that is destined to be dominated by the top teams. teague, please…It will be a long season alright. Thanks for showing this early, so i don’t get sucked into watching this exhibition in torture. Best of luck fans, i feel sorry for larry drew.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
12:21 pm
northcyde, I think it is fair to evaluate Drew’s marriage of schemes and personnel. After all, unlike an outsider (Avery or Dwayne Casey), he has first-hand knowledge of what these players can/can’t do. To use a football analogy, if he is asking them to play man defensive coverage when they are clearly better suited to play zone, then that falls on him and not the GM nor the players. I want to see if he has built a round scheme for the round peg. I have little doubt that the round peg is not championship caliber, however.
vava74
October 19th, 2010
12:22 pm
People continue to FOCUS ON THE WRONG PROBLEM:
It all starts with the COMPLETE LACK OF DEFENSE AT THE PG POSITION and with AN IRRATIONAL FEAR FROM ATTACKING HOWARD, not with Howard as an offensive force.
Nelson OWNS us and all stems from that (and Duhon carried on where he left).
The Magic game plan is simple: attack our PGs (Bibby and Jamal who even defended worse than Bibs) and after the whole Hawks defense is scrambling they rotate until they find a free shooter.
Howard was stopped in several one on one plays (a couple of bricks, a couple of missed shots, a couple of TO), the problem is WHEN he received the ball FREE and with the defense already out of place.
The touch fouls on Collins and Zaza when they breathed on Howard certainly did not help.
And on our offense, we are simply scared stiff and afraid to attack Howard. It’s now a psychological issue rather than a technical one.
On this end, I am afraid that the main culprit is Al Horford who, against Howard, turns into an outright patsy.
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
12:23 pm
Rufus1
Excellent post, dead on, intelligent, & insightful.
Thank you for an un-emotional analysis that cuts to the heart,
yet is still uplifting.
Sincerely,
G-dad
cp
October 19th, 2010
12:37 pm
O’Brien, Bibby is pretty much done. He actually looks worse than he did most of last season. Hell even Woodson knew he was done and pretty much said so when the season was over. And as bad as Bibby is on defense, Jamal might actually be worse. I don’t know if the way he played last night was because he wants a new deal or because he just sucks on defense but either way it was ugly watching. They showed the highlights of the game today and pointed out a few times where Jamal was just standing around and not even attempting to guard anyone. It might be time to just go ahead and put him on the block. I don’t care if he is sent to the T Wolves but it looks like he doesn’t even care..Marvin looks like the same player he has always been. The ASG has pretty much put all the blame on Woodson. I wasn’t a fan of his but it wasn’t all his fault. To ignore upgrading the roster again is whats going to hurt this team this year. They had chances and just refused to do it. I hope LD does well because if he does well this team does well but the ASG have put him in a bad position.
The Truth
October 19th, 2010
12:37 pm
“The Hawks had pretty good defensive energy for a couple quarters but couldn’t score. Then they couldn’t do either in the third quarter as the Magic put them away with 35 points”
Not too much else to say. They played as though they weren’t prepared for this team since they couldn’t offensively throw it in the ocean; in general a horrible shooting pct. Maybe they should take one of those captain titles and give it to Josh Powell since he was the only one that showed up. Maybe the Hawks should follow his lead instead of the anointed captains. He was the only one that played with swagger though Twin also showed some promise. If they are going to continue to just talk-talk-talk without walk-walk-walk, they will lose all credibility with the fans. LD should just give it rest with the media and just say they suck; then say “no further comments”
The cliché that offense sells tickets but defense wins games doesn’t apply here because this team did neither especially in the third quarter when the game started to look like last year playoff rout. Not only is Orlando better than the Hawks (up and down the roster) but there is an arrogance about them that belittles the Hawks. As if they have a “Yoda effect” on the Hawks and they can turn the inferiority switch on in their heads at will. Orlando know they were the team that got Woody fired perhaps explains their perceived superior attitude. This may be the downside of hiring the assistant coach of the previously fired coach. Since LD was a part of the team past bad memories, turning the page might be more difficult with him as coach if progress is not made early in the regular season. Because the Orlando routs works against the player’s psyche and conflict their high expectations as laid out by LD. If they regress and don’t improve, LD words will become hollow sooner rather than later. If he is not saying the right things to them in their moment of gloom, then he will start looking more like their past than their future. He could become a bad song entitled “the ghost of Woody” that keeps ringing in their ears. Last year we all complain about the absence of leadership on this team. The so-called leaders always talked about what was broken but never showed us anything in the heat of battle. Well, this year we have the same team, the same leaders with the potential of a hollow-voiced coach. This season could be ugly, even more so with a maxed out payroll and unmovable players.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
12:37 pm
AJ, I’m not saying any player can be developed into a rotational player. However, I don’t believe out of 5 years, that you should only end up with just two players who are rotational players (Al and Marvin). At least half of the time you should come away with something that you can use even marginally. And I know that is more then just on Woody. The entire organization is tainted and seems to be cursed. I’m simply saying Woody didn’t develop a single player after the Hawks became a playoff team.
404atlhoops
October 19th, 2010
12:38 pm
WOW……several games into the preseason and I’ve read a couple of post either questioning Larry Drew’s ability to coach or calling for him to be fired already. It’s going to be very interesting reading the comments on the Hawks Blog throughout the season. For the record, I don’t know how good of a coach Drew is but I’m taking a wait and see approach once the games count.
Sautee
October 19th, 2010
12:41 pm
Ramon,
Once again, which definition of “Stated” do you prefer?
lewis
October 19th, 2010
12:42 pm
Josh Smith is still a diva unfortunately, and it seems he’s fully reverted back to hoisting jumpers out of his range
Rufus1
October 19th, 2010
12:42 pm
Co-sign Vava
Grandad
We lose to the Magic and people already want to abandon ship on LD and this team. This Lose maybe a very good thing for LD, he may realize playing Bibby or Jamal against the Magic is a TERRIBLE decision.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
12:46 pm
@ Grandad . . . you still don’t think we have personnel issues though?
North Carolina last year, even with a future Hall of Fame coach like Roy Williams, couldn’t keep UNC even competitive last year, due to all the Seniors he lost and the underachievement of his freshmen and sophomores. I would imagine that Roy coached no differently than he did a few years ago when UNC won it all.
But he didn’t have the talent to keep UNC playing at a high level.
And don’t be surprised if Calipari goes through the same thing at Kentucky, seeing that he basically lost 5 NBA players off the UK squad last year
The Hawks simply don’t have elite personnel. And when you don’t have the personnel, I don’t care how good your system is or how good of a coach you are, you’re probably not getting over the hump.
You have people on this blog that were staunchly against bring in Shaq, because he was “too old”. Still don’t think we could use an “old Shaq” on this team?
Even with the Carmelo talks, do people still think we couldn’t use a player of his caliber on this team?
People love to diss Joe Johnson, but Horford and Smith are nowhere as good as people think they are, especially offensively. All 3 are good players. They’re just not great players.
Melvin
October 19th, 2010
12:46 pm
Hoopsworld take on the Hawks and LD…
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17651
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
12:47 pm
Sautee, the one that I posted.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
12:47 pm
Lewis, Josh made his jumpers. He missed a few shots at the rim.
lewis
October 19th, 2010
12:49 pm
playing bibby and jamal is a terrible decision regardless of opponent
Not having Teague really makes this team difficult to evaluate
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
12:50 pm
Also it is funny that it was Josh who the Magic chose to double repeatedly.
lewis
October 19th, 2010
12:51 pm
Ball should have gone to josh in the paint so he could pass out everytime
its just frustrating seeing him so far away from the rim
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
12:51 pm
To Samuel,
To continue a mini-debate between you and I from a few days back,
I must mention Orlando as a team which uses motion offense, with;
(1) ball movement
(2) *ball reversal
(3) a 4-1 set
(4) screening
(5) cutting
(6) player movement
-&-
(7) spacing
all of which are fundamental and not a “gimmick”.
Originally you said name five, and I gave only two
thinking those would be just dandy.
However, for your pleasure here are three more:
(3) the aforementioned ‘Van Gundy’ @ Orl.
(4) KC Jones ‘86 Celtics *[greatest team of all-time]
*(more than one man’s opinion)
(5) Jack Ramsey Portland TB ['76-'86](among other teams he coached)
There are others but you said five.
By the way, how do you think Rip Hamilton scores? Iso? [NO].
By moving w/o the ball & cutting off endless screens.
A gimmick, I guess?
Seriously Samuel – I’m only talkin’ to you.
I’m not maliciously attacking any position you take.
The “gimmick” offense remark is the only one that is just wrong.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
12:51 pm
Teague is missing valuable time. And why you can’t fault him for being injured, the timing couldn’t be any worse. Its almost as if you could see that when he comes back, it will take him at least 2-3 weeks (of regular season time) to get used to playing with the first unit.
Ramon
October 19th, 2010
12:52 pm
Grandad, also every thing Hubie Brown ever did was based on motion.
lewis
October 19th, 2010
12:54 pm
I did say a few months back that i’d take less wins for a better playoff performance…we look horrific at the moment but i see potential
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
1:00 pm
OBIEN
I know Maurice and Jamal contracts are up next year. But, I think Bibby has another year guaranteed after next.
I.MUS WRITE
October 19th, 2010
11:35 am
Too funny, I saw that cry for help from Clyde. It’s funny how one man can campaign to silence one man and shriek when the same thing happens to himself! Karma is a Motha – right? I too was pondering, what two worded posts
crimes Clyde could have committed?
Let’s See: one verb and one noun … Couldn’t raise the ire of the ASKG – could it?
Roll Tide? Naah ..
Fire Woody? Naaah …
To Clyde’s defense, BOTH those things did happen.
Besides, Clyde is entitled to his opinion. He expresses himself in two words or less, he spews no vitriol, hate, personal attacks nor disrespect to his peer bloggers. I would say, Clyde is a Class Act and he is appreciated!
doc
October 19th, 2010
1:01 pm
ramon, teague has caught acie disease. it is terminal with any hawks’ young draftee point guard unless nick van excel can resuscitate him.
as far as movement on an nba team, who does it better than boston now? i revere their ability to move the ball quickly and move themselves. how could ray allen get his many looks without careening around pick after pick. man i love to watch them play. actually i thought last year we started out that way, were blowing the doors off teams and then got into the woody hayes style of basketball.
lewis
October 19th, 2010
1:03 pm
Thank you Woody for imparting 0 basketball knowledge unto your players. After 6 years with you, they’re clueless because all they’ve ever done is give Joe the ball on offense and switch on defense.
Larry Drew is trying to teach technical basketball concepts to these guys for the first time, and lets face it, they’re not getting it. It’s as though they need a tutor or something. I sat there watching, and I couldn’t help but think to myself, “is there anyone on this team who gets what they’re doing? why are people standing around in a motion offense? don’t they realize that the more movement there is, the more chance there is of having a defender make a mistake, thus freeing up a shooter?”
The Hawks have relied on fast breaks, dunks, iso Joe and Jamal. They rely pretty much on being flashy instead of playing real, methodical basketball. I don’t know if our shooters are capable of this offense. We’re just not right mentally, not enough bball IQ or leadership to compensate
doc
October 19th, 2010
1:03 pm
dmb, agree on your comments about clyde. he is a classy guy who holds true to his word. i have met clyde and he is very much a gentleman. he is passionate about the hawks and the tide. batting .500 isnt bad.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
1:07 pm
Orlando has Jameer Nelson, but they brought in Chris Duhon. Lakers have Fisher, but they brought in Steve Blake. Nets have Devin Harris, but they also brought in Jordan Farmar. Utah has Deron Williams, but they brought in Earl Watson.
Hawks have Bibby and Teague, so we’re good, especially since our 3 SGs (JJ, Jamal and Jordan) can play the point.
I have heard that the motion offense does not require a traditional PG, but I still think we should have brought one in. Because if Teague gets hurt, or struggles, and Bibby is still Bibby, then what?
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
1:15 pm
northcyde
I’ve never said we didn’t have personel issues.
Haven’t I been loudly, often, and persistent in demanding
that we need a Big.
In any conversation about trading Jamal;
All I’ve said is “get talent for talent”.
Who makes more trade proposals on this board than myself.
Now, when I do, my proposed trades always have a purpose.
I take into consideration:
* team chemistry
* team needs
* fit = (coaches philosophy, schemes, standards, expectations)
As for bringing in Shaq or even Melo:
I refer again to;
* fit = (coaches philosophy, schemes, standards, expectations)
as reasons I may or may not be for such moves.
I was against the hiring of LD at 1st.
Since then, everything he has said has made me a believer.
I suspect the players have had a similar reaction as to
believing in him.
One last comment.
Do I think Teaguer would have helped last eve?
Darn tootin’!
What about Pape Sy?
Absotively!
Do we still need help?
Yep!…..A Big!
Who?
A.Ajinca…available! Go get him!
Sund;
Will he get us more talent?
no.
“Unless it falls in his lap” -Big Ray-
Ken Strickland
October 19th, 2010
1:16 pm
I don’t care what Big we tried to sign to stop DHoward, until we get something other than that MATADOR DEF from Bibby or Jamal, it won’t matter. Bibby lacks the ability to play any DEF at this point, and Jamal seems to lack the desire. It’s a down right shame how Orlando’s PG’s are able to blow past them to easily get inside the lane and feed lobs to Dwight.
With the PG in the lane, our Bigs have to respond, which gives DHoward an opening. If they don’t respond, we get the uncontested layups, like the several we saw last night.
SAMUEL-Teague alone couldn’t have won the gm for us, but he certainly could have made a difference, especially on DEF. But, his ability to stay in front of their PG’s, and keep them from getting into the lane uncontested, would have taken away some of DHoward’s easy baskets and prevented some of our fouls. The way the Hawks are constructed, especially our starting frontline, we can’t be effective defensively unless our perimeter DEF drastically improves, and that won’t happen as long as we continue getting awful DEF efforts from Bibby and Jamal.
I’ve reached the point where I want to see us trade Jamal and Bibby for whatever we can get. We need a backup PG that’s willing and able to play DEF, with enough quickness and speed to maintain the same uptempo style we play best. I wouldn’t worry about last nights gm. I’ll show concern if we get Teague back, and everyone that’s back gets some gm experience and their feet under them, and we still lose like we did last night.
I think Drew will go into the 1st part of the regular season tinkering, installing and teaching his OFF/DEF systems, and how he wants them run. I can’t wait until we get to the final roster cuts so I can see what he decides with Bibby. It’s bad enough to have one DEF liability at PG, but we can’t afford to play 2, especially when one has also become an OFF liability.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
1:21 pm
True – Lies!
V-Spitter
Thanks for the shout out, re: Fan #303.
I just had to speak up and say something in the name of Truth!
To keep repeating the same lie over and over when faced with the live video feed
of facts? Is beyond rational.
This speaks more to the character and agenda of person who chooses darkness and lies in the face of lightness and truth. The Good Book says seek the Truth and the Truth shall set you free!
If Fan #303 does not seek the Truth, then, one can only assume that man does not seek Freedom. Freedom from lies, Freedom from anger nor the Freedom from needing an apologetic hug! I can only say, I hope that Fan soon find
what he is lacking. But, I assure him he won’t find it on this blog nor in the Hawks locker room.
I only hope, we bloggers can be spared the “True Lies” as told by Section 303.
The only Truth in your posts is the Lies you mis-qoute!
Peace Out!
lewis
October 19th, 2010
1:24 pm
Larry Drew needs to get these guys going somehow.
Someone needs to be benched for their atrocious D, either Bibby or Jamal
That should make a statement to the players.
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
1:25 pm
lewis – Have patience.
Ramon – good one!
O’Brien – “then what?” = Pape Sy?
NorcalHawk
October 19th, 2010
1:30 pm
Hawks talked a good game last year and often backed it up. Haven’t seen anything so far to indicate substantial improvement. Gonna be a long season for Larry Drew.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
1:38 pm
Go Clyde Go!
Doc, yeah … I love me some Clyde. He is a harmless grizzly bear.
This blog would have no compass without Clyde on it.
If he says South? We know its North!
If he says East? We know its West!
If Clyde says it Sunny out? We know its Raining!
Seriously, what I Love about Clyde is he has thick skin and can take a jousting like this one! If Clyde is banned? I will quit posting! No more Fun!
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
1:42 pm
drmaryb, this is all I’m going to say back on this. I saw the same video you did. You’re wrong. Explain to me what “Mr. Johnson” intended to say. I saw the video and heard him say “we could care less if they show up.” What am I missing?
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
1:50 pm
drmaryb, one more thing (guess I lied, again), I asked Rick Sund and Coach Drew a question about Joe’s (I won’t call him “Mr. Johnson, since I not a douche), comments at the Season Preview event last week. I asked if either of them had spoken to Joe and why didn’t Joe just apologize. Several people (fellow season ticket holders, mind you) applauded after my question. So, not just me that still has some bad feelings towards Joe.
And, I won’t even get in to the fact that reporters who were actually there still ask him about the comments. I know, I know, there go those darn facts getting in the way of your nonsense. I’ll stop. Carry on.
D-Ball
October 19th, 2010
1:51 pm
What are you expecting from this Team? Same Team with one grossly overpaid player who will give you what he gave you last year. NOTHING!!! They can’t beat the Heat, Celtics, definitely can’t beat Orlando. So what’s left? Another one & done if they can squeeze in the playoffs. Bottom line, nothing’s changed.
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
1:51 pm
Ramon, Marvin, Al, Josh Smith and Josh Childress (had he stayed). Who else is left? Acie? No one wants to remember how many games he was unavailable because of his bumps and bruises. Shelden? No need to discuss. Teague? The jury is still out. Drew was his “position coach” last year and recognized the need to give him a personal tutor in NVE. And with Teague, we’re talking about the 7th or 8th PG chosen in the draft… not exactly a “can’t miss” draft position. I hope that Drew gets better results out of JC2 and Teague, but only in the context of better team results. If I could acquire a quality veteran PG to run this team for 36 minutes and play both sides of the court, I would do it without giving Teague and his development a nano-second of consideration.
cp
October 19th, 2010
2:02 pm
lewis when they showed the highlights of last nights game and singled out Jamal, it was down right embarrassing looking at him just stand around. Dude did not attempt to guard anyone let alone his man. Bibby is terrible defensively but at least the guy tries. Jamal doesn’t seem to care at all. I’m with you Ken Strick about trading those two but I doubt we find a buyer for Bibby until his contract becomes a expiring one. It was reported that there were deals on the table for Jamal but Sund turned them down. I don’t know if they were good deals or not but watching Jamal play Sund might be forced to move him anyway
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:02 pm
Section 303
With all due respect, Joe answered a direct question in regards to the fans booing.
What you are missing is his ENTIRE response, your just selecting the part you want to hear and are taking it out of context. Joe said, a whole lot more than what you are falsely claiming. Also, look at the tone and demeanor of his
words, while he stood there shirt-less in the agony of defeat.
He looked like a mere human being to me, NOT some monster that you try to make him out to be.
Since, I am not the one who need clarification, and have already posted this answer a dozen times, I recommend you re-listen to the video clip, this time in it’s
entirety. For your benefit and clarity.
I don’t care to paraphrase and re-interpret what Mr. Johnson said for anyone at this time. You need to hear that straight from the Horse’s mouth.
The Truth
October 19th, 2010
2:02 pm
But The Positives I see are:
Josh Power > Joe Smith
Jordon Crawford > Mario West
This Yr Jason Collins > Last Yr Jason Collins
This Yr Teague > Last Yr Teague
Fewer Minutes Bibby This Yr > More Minutes Bibby Last Yr
We shall see whether these improvements show up anywhere of importance
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
2:12 pm
The Truth,
I’m still firmly on the Jason Collins bandwagon. The guy is a good player. I love that he is consistent at knocking down the 15-foot and in jumper. Defenders seem to think he can’t hit that shot and are willing to give it to him (happened in last night’s game).
And, when the officials let him play (they did not last night) he is a solid post defender.
I’m not ready to give Josh Powell the edge over Joe Smith, just yet. Powell shocked me last night. I had no idea he could hit jumpers. And, he hit some tough jumpers, too. Was it a fluke, though? Not sure. Joe Smith had/has a pretty decent shot. Need to see more of Powell.
Agree on Jordan Crawford over West (though, I love Mario West) and Teague/Bibby.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
2:14 pm
drmaryb, I think you’re trying really hard to defend Joe. Too hard, actually. Both Rick Sund and Coach Drew answered my question by saying that Joe messed up and was wrong, by the way. Don’t think it is me having the problem understanding what was said. So, like I said, there are those facts, again.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:15 pm
Section 303
If everyone jumps off a cliff – will You?
There are a myriad of ignorant people in this world who can not read, comprehend nor think for themselves. The prisons are over crowed with those type people.
Personally, I choose freedom from the main-stream and misguided people
in society. I have always been a Maverick when it comes to ideals in society.
With all due respect Sir, You may choose to follow than lead.
Just spare the rest of us from the lies if you can find it in your heart to move on.
If it bothers you so much? Stay home and chill!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:23 pm
If I had the opportunity to talk to Mr. Sund?
I surely wouldn’t have been asking about Mr. Johnson’s irrelevant and trumped up non-comments?
The only APOLOGY I would have been asking for is one from the ASKG for their buying this team, in-fighting and NOT building this damned team into a legitimate CONTENDER!
Again, you had a chance to gleam some TRUTH and you failed miserably.
With all due respect, Sir, You should be apologizing to us for your posts!
Astro Joe
October 19th, 2010
2:29 pm
cp, Drew kind of suggested during the sumer “guard you man or else” and most of us wondered how he would handle Jamal and Bibby. Time will tell. Heaven knows, Sund didn’t do much to help him enforce his mandate.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:33 pm
Section 303
One more thing?
What was Mr. Sund and Coach Drew’s response to your nefarious question?
You left out the punch line to the joke.
You cant just leave us hanging, like you claim Joe did?
The Truth
October 19th, 2010
2:34 pm
Section 303
That’s understandable about Powell because it is early. But I got a good feeling about him because of his good shooting fundamentals. His game in the paint maybe the best we have on the bench but we shall see. He could even sub for Marvin with his shooting range. I have to admit though; I was disappointed with Joe Smith last year. I have watched him over the years and perhaps last year as a Hawk ranked among his worst year as a player. His terrible defense and inconsistent offense became a liability as the reason he didn’t see much PT. If Powell brings us at least better defense with enhanced offense over Joe Smith, then will see more PT.
cp
October 19th, 2010
2:35 pm
Lol yea Astro you’re right. I always knew Jamal was a bad defender but man last night it was uglier than I thought. He mad absolutely no effort. I don’t know how long the “guard your man or else” theme will last because last night I saw a lot of guys getting abused. I do however think a lot of it had to do with effort. Guys looked like they quit just as they did in the playoffs last year.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:37 pm
1- 800 How’s my Driving?
Hey Astro Joe
I learning from you how to drive the Mis-Qouters to the Truth.
However, I don’t have the patience of Job.
My Father’s biggest peeve was:
He had zero tolerance for ignorance!
Evelyn
October 19th, 2010
2:41 pm
What Joe meant,section303 is that it doesn’tmattet if da fans boo and didn’t care if they booed, the team have to go out there and play their game regardless of da booing,I sW the tape on YouTube from Chicago and even I understood what he was saying go figure.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:45 pm
Section 303
Apparently my assessment of your agenda was spot on!
When you can research, copy and paste the ENTIRE qoute on this blog,
then maybe you can at least get the words right. From there? Who knows?
Miracles have been known to happen within people lives.
With all due respect, I’m done with all the non-sensical emotional diatribes.
I’d prefer discussing Hawks Basketball on a blog.
ATL FAN
October 19th, 2010
2:47 pm
Opening day starting lineup:
PG- Jeff Teague
SG- Joe Johnson
SF- Marvin Williams
PF- Al Horford
C- Jason Collins
Sub in J smoove when Collins gets tired, same for Bibby with Teague, and Jamal with Marvin.
We need a center for the defensive presence, not offensive, and Collins delivers just that. We make up for the loss of Josh Smith by putting Al at PF, a position hes much more comfortable at.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
2:47 pm
drmaryb, what? Read the response. I told you how they answered the question. Was not a cliff hanger.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:53 pm
And, I am NOT a lawyer. I don’t defend people.
I will defend the Truth!
I can not stand a LIAR under any circumstances. I will cal them out to their face.
However, I will not debate a LIAR to their death, time is too precious.
The Good Book says, “Let the dead bury the dead.”
TW, that’s an example of an accurate quote.
ReddJonn68
October 19th, 2010
2:55 pm
If Sund is not gone by mid-season I refuse to go any further with this team. I said it when the FA frenzy started, not a single FA called out Atlanta’s name. Not just top tier, none of the mid tier FAs came calling. When will we fans here wake up & realize its the front office, no wonder Joe never tried to recruit anyone else to join him here. Now this does not even look like an 8th seeded team in the east this year, Cleveland looks better than us !!! Why do you think Mello or CP3 never listed us on their wish list’s, because they don’t we will ever get over the hump. This team will be broken apart within the next 3 yrs. & we will never dump ISO-Joe’s contract. I do not know where Sund lives, but some Real Estate agent is looking to cop a nice fat bonus on the resell of his property !!!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 19th, 2010
2:57 pm
Problem is, you have no credibility in quoting facts.
You need to solve your problem with quote #1 before you can move to quote #2.
Once you lose credibility? It takes a life time before others will believe again.
Grandad
October 19th, 2010
2:59 pm
The Truth @ 2:02 pm = Spot on!
One amendment we can hope for;
Pape Sy [over] Mario
-with-
JC2 being a pure addition.
Section 303
October 19th, 2010
3:00 pm
Losing credibility with you is hardly something I am going to give even one thought to. I really don’t care. I’m right. You’re wrong. Now, let’s move on…
ReddJonn68
October 19th, 2010
3:11 pm
I know offense comes & goes so this motion offense will take some adjusting to, but where the hell has the defense gone. If anyone locates it tell to return to Philips Arena please ASAP !!!
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
3:54 pm
I wonder how Kentucky fans and coaches are responding to Randall Cobb’s twitter comments to Kentucky fans?
Cobb is the ex-QB turned receiver for the Wildcats. He basically ripped the UK fans for booing the Cats as early as the 1st quarter of the UK vs South Carolina game. But when the Cats came back to beat S. Carolina, they were cheering out of their minds and hi-fiving players after the game.
But Cobb didn’t forget the feeling he had earlier in the game, when the home crowd gave up on the Cats very early in the game. And while he’s happy for the comeback win, he let those UK bandwagon fans have it via twitter, typing a biting message that was full of sarcasm.
I haven’t checked if Cobb had apologized ( or was made to apologize ) to the UK fans for his comments.
It just illustrates JJ’s point even further. When your own fans show displeasure about the play of their favorite team, it’s up to the team to ban together and get the job done. And if they’ve showed a pattern of booing you when things go bad, or not showing up at all. then you can’t rely on the fans to give you that emotional lift.
Let me check to see if Cobb apologized. If he did, I’ll be disappointed. Athletes are supposed to have thicker skin than the fans, but athletes care too . . even if they try to play it off.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
3:55 pm
“That doesn’t bother me, and I hope it doesn’t bother anyone in this locker room,” Johnson said. “It’s about us in this locker room. We could care less if [fans] showed up.”.
While I dont agree with his comments, I also dont think he does a good job of expressing himself, especially speaking out of frustration.
Should he have apologized? Yes. But I dont think his comments are serious enough for me to hold it against him.
And if you read his comments, he said “WE” dont care if fans showed up. Not “I”. So who exactly is he referring to? He said its about the players in the locker room…
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
4:23 pm
@ Grandad . . . Pape Sy? Really? You’re holdng out hope for a guy who wasn’t even good enough to start on a French team, but expecting some contribution from him defensively?
That’s the problem with us. We want to latch onto dang near anybody, because we lack actual quality players that we KNOW can get it done.
Drew didn’t even know what position he played when we first got him. We’ve heard everything from PG to SF. But Pape Sy is a possible defensive weapon for this team?
Sorry . . not buying it.
*****
And Randall Cobb DID apologize today. I guess he had to. I guess only angry fans are the only ones that can speak their minds and tell the truth about something . . . not disgruntled or disappointed athletes.
J from the A
October 19th, 2010
4:26 pm
[from last page] @GeeMack: I never said depth was the only way to win nor did I say that every team that is better than us is also deeper than us. Rather I was making the point that DEPTH is a problem for THIS team [our Hawks]. Going out and adding one more star to this roster at the expense of depth isn’t going to solve the problem.
[Well, I guess this depends on the particular trade. I mean if we could get Durant for a couple of scrubs then of course THAT would go a long way to improving this team. However, with this scenario, we add a star player and would improve our depth. But of course trade scenarios like these are only for those living in la-la land. Given any semi-realistic scenario, I think getting stronger 5-9 guys are much more important than adding a (semi-)star at the expense of the 5-9]
Here is the problem: Assume Teague proves his worth and moves into the starting PG position. Our starting 5 look solid (even if we are a bit undersized down low). What does our bench look like?
(1) Jamal: SMOY. Great!
(2) Mo: I think he will improve this year, but even with improvement, he probably wouldn’t be good enough to be the 2nd or 3rd man off the bench on most championship-caliber teams (exception to this rule might be Miami).
(3) ZaZa: I like ZaZa, but is he good enough to be the 1st big man off the bench on a championship-caliber team?
(4) Jordan: I like this kid, but he is unproven as of right now.
(5) Mike: He is all but done.
(6) Scrub 1
(7) Scrub 2
(8) Scrub 3
I mean come on! Some on this blog are discussing the potential of Jason Collins overtaking minutes from ZaZa AS THE NUMBER 1 BIG MAN OFF THE BENCH.
Re: Miami and Depth: Of course, if you have 3 of the top 15 players in the league, depth becomes less of an issue (as long as there are no injuries to your top players). For the rest of the league, though, depth matters. And for the Hawks, I think depth could be an even bigger difference maker. Besides, if we were honest with ourselves, it would be premature to guess that Miami’s lack of depth won’t hurt Miami. And, furthermore, if we were really honest with ourselves it is not obvious that our bench is that much better than their bench.
O'Brien
October 19th, 2010
5:54 pm
northcyde,
Pape Sy can’t even stay healthy. And sure, he held his own against college talent, but of those college talent, who got drafted where?
I think next year, Sy can become a rotational player. but I have no expectations for him this year.
northcyde
October 19th, 2010
5:58 pm
@ J to the A . . . It’s always better to have star talent but little depth, than quality depth but little talent. Because the latter will never produce a champion. But it’s been proven time and again that star power ( legit star power ) can win you a title.
Just ask the LA Lakers, who basically won a title with 5 1/2 people. ( the 1/2 being the often injured Bynum ). Other than Odom and on rare occasions Jordan Farmar, the Lakers had no quality depth.
Now granted, it’s best to have star talent AND depth ( Boston, Orlando, etc ). But in the NBA, give me 3 LEGIT all-stars ( like in Miami ), than a team that is deep, but with limited star power ( Houston, Milwaukee, etc )
If we could add a guy like Melo to the team, and lose quality players like Marvin and Jamal, you do a deal like that every time.
stars > depth
That’s why people have such high expectations of the Heat, other than people who don’t want to believe that the Unholy Trinity will work . . . even though it worked in Boston.
Matter of fact, the main teams winning titles, also have NBA MVPs on them in that year.
That’s part of the reason why I don’t get too high or too low about the Hawks. Until we acquire, or someone on this team evolves into a LEGIT NBA MVP candidate, a championship is not coming to the Hawks.
So honestly, unless Joe Johnson turns into an offensive killing machine, and becomes a legit 1st team All NBA caliber player . . AND . . . Josh Smith becomes the undisputed best defensive player in the league . . . the words “championship contender” and “Atlanta” should not be mentioned in the same sentence.
Sautee
October 19th, 2010
6:38 pm
Ramon,
Ok, I went back and found your “approved” definitions of “stated”.
Here’s what you posted:
“Sautee, state also means – to say-. Don’t just post one definition when a word has over 15 definitions.”
Then you posted this:
“Or what about 19. definition for state (as defined by dictionary.reference.com) 19. to articulate in words; utter …”
Ramon, here again is your original post that I disagreed with:
September 28th, 2010
5:27 pm
“Section 303, is Al whining when he states (over and over) that he can’t win without playing the PF position, when he knows he’s not the best PF on the team? Is that doing what’s best for the team?”
OK, Ramon, according to your post AND your definitions of “stated” Al either SAID (your first definition) “that he can’t win without playing the PF position”
or he “articulated in words” or “uttered” “that he can’t win without playing the PF position”.
This is BS because Al NEVER SAID, ARTICULATED IN WORDS, OR UTTERED that phrase.
The link you provided was to a blog of MC’s from the off season and NOWHERE in that blog does Al say what you claim.
Ramon, it’s as easy as saying “yeah, that’s my take on what he meant”. I have NO problem with you THINKING that about Horford, only with you claiming that he “stated” those things, when he clearly did not.
HoosierHawk
October 20th, 2010
8:55 am
@MC- off topic, but is Wade sitting out tomorrow’s gameinst the Hawks? Given it is only preseason, if Wade can’t stay healthy (which he often doesn’t), how do you like the Hawks’ chances against the Heat?