Atlanta Hawks: Hawks vs. Magic
L.D. picks Dwight over shooters. (Stephen M. Dowell/Orlando Sentinel)
The Hawks remember the sting from getting demolished by the Magic last may. Did they learn anything about how to play the Magic, though?
“Last year is over with,” L.D. said before the game. “This is a new year. We have to bring a new attitude and the way we approach the game. We will do some things a little differently than we did last year playing against Orlando. Will they work? I don’t know. But I do know we are going to try to take out some of the predictability of the things we have done in the past.”
L.D. mentioned the “pick your poison” aspect of playing the Magic. Dwight is the “1″ and the shooters the “4″ in their famed 4-out, 1-in offense. It sounds like L.D. picks playing Dwight more straight up rather than leaving those shooters.
But like with L.D.’s desire to make the Hawks an overall gritty defensive team, it’s not clear he has the personnel to match his desires. Hawks brass seemed to know it, too, thus the summer pursuit of Shaq and Brad Miller instead of plugging other glaring holes on the roster.
If the goal was to match up with the Magic, the Hawks don’t t appear much better suited to do that then they did in May.
Al is a smart, quick, defender in the post but he’s giving up significant size to Dwight. Zaza, Twin and Etan will give it a try. And of course even if those four can control Dwight the Hawks still have to guard the perimeter, where they have more personnel issues.
But that’s the group L.D. has to work with so he will try some new tricks to avoid having to pick a poison.
“The head of the snake is that 3-point line,” he said. “What we want to do is try to avoid as many open looks for them. Dwight is still a priority, but going into a game playing Orlando you have to be concerned about the 3-point line because they led the league in 3-point shooting. We know what the priorities are. It really comes down to us.”
Stretching the four
One of the “4″ in Orlando’s 4-out is Rashard Lewis, one of those stretch fours all teams with good centers covet. The Magic also have Ryan Anderson in reserve.
L.D. on the challenge Josh faces defending stretch fours Lewis:
“Some fours that are going to be primarily around the basket, some will be midrange, but this guy is out to three. In transiton, it is instinctive for fours to run out to the paint and then fan out and get their guys. But when you play a guy like Rashard that can stretch a defense in transition you have to find him immediately.
“That is a big test for Smoove because he is just not used to it. He has to be focused on every trip down the floor and where to find him if he doesn’t he is going to be lacing it up.”
L.D. said the Hawks can post up Josh against Rashard but . . .
“When we have done that in the past, Dwight is always lurking somewhere around so we have to be good with our decision-making,” he said. “Just because we post you, which we think is an advantage, you still have to make the smart play. It’s not forcing the shot, it is not doing anything out of your character. If the double team does come you accept the double team and you pass out.”
Injury report
Teague is out. He is aiming to return Thursday vs. the Heat.
Pape Sy (back) said he still doesn’t know when he will be able to practice for the first time.
“It’s sore,” he said. “It’s getting better.”
L.D. said he’s not sure how many minutes Josh Powell (groin) can go.
MC
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322 comments Add your comment
Samuel
October 18th, 2010
9:44 pm
Go Rangers
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
9:45 pm
Samuel ,
You know the answer to that already, LOL.
In the case of Larry Drew, I want to see what he can do. I think he will be a good coach, but that’s not proven one way or the other yet. I was happy with Mike Woodson for the better part of 4 years, so it’s only fair that I give Drew time to do his thing before going after him.
At the same time, Drew is in a worse position than Woody was. Woody took over a team that had been blown up, and was being built brick by brick. Drew is taking over a team that won the most games it has in a decade, and needs to do better (particularly in the postseason). The problem is, he is left with 95% or more of the same team that was here last year, and had a less than pleasant playoff experience.
Nobody complained about Woody winning 13, 26, 31 games. They knew why. But let Drew win anything less than 53. Let the Hawks slide back to around the .500 mark, or just above it. People will label him a failure after just one year.
We know what the issue is. And we know exactly where it starts.
That “Drew will remedy this” is a joke. He may get this team to play a more exciting and formidable offense. He may get them to play better team defense from night to night. He may even get them to be more competitive in the playoffs.
But what he won’t do, is get them past their matchup issues with Orlando. I also don’t see him getting us past the 2nd round. For that, we’ve always needed some personnel adjustment. Adjustment to the bench, and even to the core, in my opinion. But hey, this ain’t anything new. We’ve known this. Even those who hated Woody the most knew it wasn’t just about him.
But like I said before, until a player becomes a real problem, any head coach is likely to be the scapegoat. As for Woody, I felt he had hit his limits with this team, and I figured he was gone the day Sund came to town. I had some issues with what Woody did, and I may have issues with what Larry does. But I won’t know until I get to see Larry do his thing.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 18th, 2010
9:46 pm
“Wasn’t Drew supposed to remedy all that. Why else would you change coaches after winning 53 games?”
I know you are the driver of the Woody bandwagon, but at the very least, you have to acknowledge that firing Woody and hiring Drew are two separate events. The majority of us who wanted Woody fired didn’t have Drew at the top of our lists to replace him. I was underwhelmed by the Drew hire, but he did say all the right things over the offseason, so I’m not going to let a few lackluster preseason games define whether or not he is going to work out. But you are being dishonest if you think all of us who wanted Woody gone are staunch supporters of Drew. It is quite possible, believe it or not, to like both or dislike both.
Time will tell whether this move is more like firing Dan Reeves (an average but not great coach) and replacing him with Jim Mora (a historically awful coach), or like firing Rick Carlisle (a coach who could win 50 games) and replacing him with Larry Brown (a coach who could win a title). Or, who knows, maybe it’s somewhere in between. But I don’t think how Drew does has anything to do with how good of a coach Woody was. Woody was what he was — a generally likeable, stand-up guy who could relate to the players but who couldn’t make adjustments or come up with schemes to put his players in the best position to succeed. You can only go so far with a guy who is going to get outschemed by every good coach.
Samuel
October 18th, 2010
9:46 pm
MsDee,
Very half full post.
KevinM
October 18th, 2010
9:50 pm
The core getting some minutes in a blowout.
DHoward hasn’t played to a crowd like this since his high school days.
Seriously, what positives come out of this game? Good thing it’s a long season.
Samuel
October 18th, 2010
9:52 pm
Naj,
As witnessed tonight, schemes don’t mean squatt. Isn’t LD supposed to have a better scheme?
Astro Joe
October 18th, 2010
9:53 pm
I’m glad that it’s only pre-season, because the team hasn’t scored 95 points since the first pre-season game. Let’s hope that Teague can stay on the floor for 35+ minutes without any foul trouble, because he appears to be the lynch-pin to this offense.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 18th, 2010
9:55 pm
“As witnessed tonight, schemes don’t mean squatt.”
Tell that to Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, and Jerry Sloan. All of them have coached their entire careers with a well-defined scheme. In fact, in the case of Jackson, he actually hired a guy (Tex Winter) to essentially be his offensive coordinator and design the scheme for him — something that would have probably saved Woody’s job if he had ever decided to do it.
KevinM
October 18th, 2010
9:55 pm
Brandon Bass….just a high motor player….
We are overmatched at EVERY position!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 18th, 2010
9:57 pm
Najeh!
I just think we missed some wide open looks.
We will knock those down, I’m more interested in what we
do Defensively than on Offense. We will score!
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
9:57 pm
Al most likely signs with us if the team and his super agent (Arn Tellem) can work it out. The reason being? Money. Chances are, Al makes more if he signs before November 1st, I think. The new CBA is undoubtedly going to cut into salaries.
That said, would Al consider going somewhere else? As a businessman, he would have to. But, he would have to like the city, like the organization, like the pay, and like the role he would have with the team. Hey, he would have to like the coaching staff and team, as well. I can’t think of a team that wouldn’t welcome Al Horford (unless they already have all they could ever want at the C and PF spots).
I say he signs. If he doesn’t, look out. Because then we have to play the game next offseason. Which, scarily enough, we might actually do. Why? Well, if the CBA cuts down on the salaries that players can make, then signing him later (or matching another contract offer) might be less expensive than signing him now. Then again, some team could front load the hell out of the contract, and make it more than we could possibly comfortably deal with (remember, Joe’s contract gets more lucrative as it goes along..this year is the cheapest year of that contract).
On the other hand, Al might feel that we’re not committed enough to him, or to winning. So, he wants out anyway, and we work a sign and trade. Here’s the trap we’re in:
Without him, we have NO semblance of a low post big man. Sorry, but as great as Josh Smith is or can be, he can only be a hybrid PF, not a goon or anything resembling a traditional big. And, we won’t lose nearly enough games to have even a frog’s hair chance at winning a top 3 spot in the NBA lottery, which means we aren’t going to be able to draft a very good “ready to play” big man.
Our best bet would then be working out a sign and trade with Al. And how do you suppose that would go? Probably not well at all, if a more traditionally sized starting center who can battle with Dwight is what you’re aiming at. Not well at all.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 18th, 2010
9:58 pm
Regarding tonight’s game, I didn’t see it. I can’t comment on specifics about it that are not apparent in the box score. In fact, I have not actually seen Drew’s offense in action in a game, so I can only judge it based on what Drew, MC, and other people have said about it.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 18th, 2010
9:59 pm
A First!
Atlanta Hawks Team Preview up next. Yeah!
kwooden1 aka half-full
October 18th, 2010
10:00 pm
I watched all of the game, except the stretch where Orlando pulled away in the 3rd. My points from the game:
1) The HAWKS aren’t totally comfortable with their offensive yet.
Orlando was doubling JJ on any catches and doubling Smoove in the post. Along with that they got physical with guys on cuts and didn’t give up any back doors. This took the away the motion and forced contested jump shots. The HAWKS are going to have to work a lot harder to get open and get shots going to the basket.
2) Bibby clearly can’t start against certain teams. The HAWKS played pretty good defensive early but Nelson was just to quick for Mike. The HAWKS are to conditioned to help out Mike and they end up leaving rebounding and passing lanes open.
3) Powell and Collins can make a difference for this team. For a while I thought Powell might be a stiff, but he’s got some offensive game and he likes contact. Collins has the size we need.
4) We’re a jump shooting team! We can make-up for it by running fast-breaks but in the end we have to make shots.
5) Orlando is better! They spent a lot of money to get the players they have and it shows. The only thing that might help the HAWKS in that respect is a hard salary cap!
GO HAWKS
doc
October 18th, 2010
10:03 pm
ken, here is a lobby from the earlier blog “more of the same”, kind of appropriate tonight as well:
ken just calls em like i sees em.
heat, celts improved, magic the same if not better because of their own stability and they all three thrash us this season. last year i said, us third over boston, not this year. not sure we get three wins against these three teams together all year not counting the last game of the year with miami yup suggesting upwards of ten losses just against those teams alone. shoot last year i had the gall to suggest we could take cleveland with fair refs. that is not happening that way against the heat as wade and laqueen have proven they can beat us by themselves with one hand tied behind their backs. i am just not bold enough to suggest the combo wont be better, almost exponentially. plus the vets they got are ballers, not like ours.
i also think the west will be tougher as the jazz look better and the thunder are now maybe at or just below big elite whereas they werent even on the horizon last year. throw in the tx teams; houston, san antoine and dallas; the lakers, thunder, suns and blazers and any trip out west can turn into a death march. some of those teams will sweep us home and home unless these guys wake up. i also think the bulls are better, milwaukee has an id and the bobcats may surprise based on their showing against the magic that showed they have guts or a coach, along with the wiz. so overall, on comparison to others the path will be steeper than last year. throw in an unfortunate injury and you will taste crow ken.
at the risk of piling on, you might want to go back a read the following comments by canniblogging.
,northcyde and others, still thinking this is a 50 win team overall and 32 win team at home based on what you see thus far in the preseason? wonder when we will see bring back woody as sign off? shoot clyde might even come up with a t shirt to say the same. now wouldnt that take the cake?
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:04 pm
Najeh ,
Excellent post at 9:46. Haven’t seen that one said better.
Samuel ,
If schemes don’t mean squat, then there is no way that a Boston Celtics squad who got SWEPT by us in the regular season and won fewer games, beats a Magic squad that blew by us in the playoffs like we weren’t even there.
It was both matchups and schemes. Boston has better personnel for matchups with Orlando at some spots, but they also had way better schemes. Orlando had to guard Boston. They never had to guard us. Boston used different coverages to shut their shooters down. How? Is Boston more athletic than us? Only at one position: pg.
But we know it’s more than just schemes, as well. I’d say it’s 50% matchup ability, 50% scheme.
O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
10:07 pm
Brandon bass was available 2 years ago. But we waited all summer long for Joe Smith. And then we signed Josh Powell this summer. Great moves there, ASG and Rick.
We gave Bibby 3 years guaranteed. And I’m starting to wonder if he can duplicate last year’s nimbers.
I haven’t seen any games yet, so I can’t comment on specifics. But I can see why teams will try and for e us to make jump shots consistently.
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:08 pm
The problem, which has been stated by 568,419,601 times on these blogs, is that the organization settle for 50% of the solution: schemes. They hardly bothered with personnel.
So, that means that the organization gave a half effort. Ever wonder why they didn’t hire Avery Johnson, or even one of the other outside candidates? I would not be the least bit surprised if he told them in interviews that they needed to make serious personnel changes, not just changes to the 12th, 13th, and 14th roster spots. Either that, or they were afraid he would begin to make such remarks after he had been hired. Oh, Avery has opinions.
Think back to what was reported. I bet Larry Drew started with “I can do better with what we have…” ….and no matter what else he had to say, that was all they heard, and all they wanted to hear. I’d lay a few bucks on that…
doc
October 18th, 2010
10:10 pm
well MC, is it all about them waiting to get their legs back or having the lights turn on or are they that poorly organized and ready to play at the speed you have to play in the NBA?
Samuel
October 18th, 2010
10:10 pm
Naj,
How was Phil’s scheme a few years ago before he was given Pau and Kobe was ready to jump ship. Pops scheme didn’t get the Spurs any farther than we did. They are getting old so all the scheme in the world can’t save them. They need players to compete with the Lakers and the Thunder of the world.
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:11 pm
And all of that has nothing to do with how good or bad of a coach Larry Drew is. I don’t doubt his Xs and Os. Don’t ask me why. Maybe it’s because the players support it so much. I think he’ll be a good coach. But will he get the chance to prove that his system works, and that for it to work better, it will require some personnel upgrades? If the owners/front office don’t buy into the coach, they aren’t going to let go of this core notion.
And in my mind, this is the absolute last year for Marvin Williams. So much blamed on Woody in his case (whether right or wrong). If he doesn’t get it done this year, take his secret “Core” decoder ring away. I’m just sayin’…
doc
October 18th, 2010
10:15 pm
folks to blame LD for his hire is like continuing to blame marvin for being number two his year in the draft. this will all be on my boy rick (where is your support of him now samuel
) and the ASKG if it deosnt work out.
now that marvin’s name has been brought up, he couldnt even make it two straight good games in the preseason much less a whole real season. 1 for 10, it doesnt get any better than that.
kwooden1
October 18th, 2010
10:15 pm
O’Brien, the problem is, when your GOOD players want to come! Bass chose to go to Orlando, the most we could offer was the mid-level exception. I have no proof that the ASG did, but I believe they did. Bass went to an established winner, so did Shaq, Barnes and Jermaine O. That is the same reason they had to over pay JJ to come and stay!
Melvin
October 18th, 2010
10:17 pm
Josh growing up….
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17647
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:19 pm
Doc ,
Heh…it’s about us and Orlando. The rest of the preseason has been mostly scrubs and a rookie playing (rookie looked fairly good), with 6 of the top 9 players out with nagging injuries.
Ready for the season? Nope. But ready or not, those guys start playing real games in about a week. The learning curve might get ugly for a little while. We’ll see.
bigdave
October 18th, 2010
10:20 pm
there is a difference between missing jump shots from good looks by schematic design , vs missing highly contested, extremely difficult looks based on improvisation.
hopefully having single players work less for their offense prove advantageous in the long term. we are who we are.. and thats a finesse team. incapable of playing different styles.
bigdave
October 18th, 2010
10:21 pm
and management is content with that.
doc
October 18th, 2010
10:21 pm
will this be sixer redux? i smell it. seems like these guys are not trying to impress their new coach with their efforts. funny, astro joe was critical of some players not performing better on the mile run especially jamal. seems the whole of the team has taken that approach during the preseason.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 18th, 2010
10:22 pm
“How was Phil’s scheme a few years ago before he was given Pau and Kobe was ready to jump ship. Pops scheme didn’t get the Spurs any farther than we did. They are getting old so all the scheme in the world can’t save them. They need players to compete with the Lakers and the Thunder of the world.”
Nobody is saying a great scheme can turn D-League players into champions. But a scheme can turn a collection of good players into a great team (the 2004 Pistons), a collection of decent players into a good team (last year’s Rockets), a collection of bad players into a decent team (the 2003 Jazz), and vice versa (like the early 2000s Clippers). What you are failing to understand is that you need both. Maybe the Hawks don’t have the players to win a title, but they have the players to not get blown out in the worst playoff series loss in NBA history. Woody didn’t get the most out of this team. Plain and simple.
And as for your argument that Phil Jackson’s scheme didn’t mean anything to the 2005 and 2006 Lakers, how do you know that team — which made the first round of the playoffs — wouldn’t have lost 50 games without that scheme?
drmaryb (*_*)
October 18th, 2010
10:23 pm
Najeh
Enthusiastic Co-Sign!
Me being a die-hard Mr. Woodson lover, the only complaint I ever had,
whatsoever was:
We played And – 1 Basketball!
I never saw anything but helter-skelter on offense.
I banged my drum 6 Years for a Structured Offense – to no avail!
But, I also cried when he left, because he brought us so far from where he started.
I am very excited to see Coach Drew install this new offense!
We need at least 20 something games to see it gel.
doc
October 18th, 2010
10:23 pm
amen to that ray, the learning curve better steepen quickly.
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:23 pm
Doc ,
Now don’t bring up Samuel and his boy Rick, you’ll run him off like that. Marvin has just ONE thing in his favor after this game: everybody else played like crap, too. Doesn’t make me feel any better, though. After all, the difference in a blowout like that could be the production of a single starter, and the effect it has on the rest of the team. Gee, I guess we won’t be seeing Marvin named team captain next…darn it…
Kwooden ,
Unfortunately, I think you are absolutely right on all of that. Makes you wonder why Josh Powell ended up here instead of getting the same salary down in Miami. Maybe he was serious about getting more minutes…
O'Brien
October 18th, 2010
10:24 pm
Kwooden1,
Bass was a RESTRICTED free agent. Orlando offered him 4 years, $16 mil. He accepted, and Dallas chose not to match.
Do u really think if the hawks offered him the mid-level (over $5 mil), he would have turned it down?
And when was the last time the hawks used their mid-level?
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:26 pm
Najeh ,
Good stuff, but you’re wasting your breath, LOL. Something tells me ol’ Sam isn’t trying to discuss much. Maybe he’s just having to come to grips with the fact that his boy rick is…well, one of the boys…
truthspitter
October 18th, 2010
10:30 pm
I bet Larry Drew has some good oral skills
tidog
October 18th, 2010
10:31 pm
The Hawks do have a match up advantage. Coach has to find a way to get Horford/Lewis matched. Lewis is perimeter PF that gets abused by a true PF. KG, bad knee and all abused Lewis in the playoffs. I’d like to see more basket cuts, the screens were an upgrade over last year and Zsa Zsa made the back door pass. It’ll be rough out the gate but they won’t play Orlando everynight. This loss was no worse than Woodson’s reign. Coach did utilize more than 6 players.
Hmmm
October 18th, 2010
10:33 pm
Really liked what I saw from Joe today. He got to the line a bunch of times and aside from a few ISO-Joe mental lapses, he was very quick and decisive with what he what he wanted to do with the basketball.
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:33 pm
O’brien ,
I didn’t know we had an MLE. What IS that?
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:34 pm
Stat for the night:
Mike Bibby – played 15 minutes, 17 seconds.
Etan Thomas – played 3 minutes, 57 seconds.
Don’t be surprised if this becomes their season averages…
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:36 pm
truthspitter
October 18th, 2010
10:30 pm
I bet Larry Drew has some good oral skills
I realize you meant that as an insult, but you do realize it says a LOT more about YOU, right?
Hmmm
October 18th, 2010
10:36 pm
I really like the new offense, 100pts for orlando is normal, but once again it was our inability to score that cost us the game.
Did any of you notice that Dwight played the whole 1st quater? SVG does that on purpose to put us away EARLY. He knows we have no answer for Dwight and if he can get us down early, their 3pt barrage will carry them for the rest of the game.
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:36 pm
You gotta be careful on a blog, man.
Big Ray
October 18th, 2010
10:37 pm
Hmmmmm ,
Good observation. You’re exactly on point.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 18th, 2010
10:38 pm
“Good stuff, but you’re wasting your breath, LOL.”
I figured that’s possible… but I’m just interested to see what he has to say in response. I just think the whole idea of a Woody fan is, well, interesting. To me, being a Woody fan is like being a fan of microwaves or grass. Sure, there’s nothing to passionately hate, but it’s not like there’s anything really great about them either to where one would feel compelled to vouch for them over and over again.
Section 303
October 18th, 2010
10:39 pm
Guys, I just got back from the game. What a disaster. I know I have been telling people to not get too wound up about preseason games. Well, I need to take my own advice. I’m wound up about what I saw tonight.
First off, why did Joe Johnson bother coming back here? There would have been some other team stupid enough to take him on at a max rate. He sucks. And, he continues to be a complete no show when the Hawks really need him. Nothing like watching $19 million a year shoot less than 30% from the floor, miss several free throws, and all 3-point shots. What a leader!
2nd, the refs will just not allow the Hawks to guard Howard. They simply will not allow it! Total horsesh#t calls on Horford, Zaza, Thomas, and Thomas. If the game is going to be called that tight all the time, there is no reason to even play the game. Just give Orlando the win and move along. It really is pointless.
I’m thinking the Hawks have maxed out. This group is done. I see them as the #6 or #7 seed, at best. Bucks, Bulls, Wizards have all past them by. Should have cleaned house this summer.
Can’t wait to hear/read the same bullsh#t quotes about “lack of energy” “need to come out more focused” ….how about this one: “We are no better than last year. A little worse, in fact.” I think that quote is much more fitting.
Here’s to wishing I would not have renewed my season tixs.
cdog
October 18th, 2010
10:41 pm
WHENEVER THE HAWKS PLAY THE MAJIC AND THE HEAT, YOU WILL SEE THE SORRY STATE RICK SUND HAS BROUGHT THE HAWKS TO.I FEEL SORRY FOR THE DIE-HARD HAWKS FANS WHO ARE BLINDED BY RICK SUND.JUST LOOK AT HOW THE HAWKS ARE BLOWN OUT BECAUSE OF SUND’S STUPIDITY AND STUBBORNESS TO GO OUT AND BRING PLAYERS NEEDED TO BEAT THESE TEAMS.ITS SO SAD BUT GOOD LUCK, I NO LONGER FOLLOW THE TEAM UNLESS SUND IS FINALLY GONE FROM THE ORGANIZATION
drmaryb (*_*)
October 18th, 2010
10:41 pm
Plug & Play!
Najeh – super co-sign!
Coach K runs a terrific scheme in Kentucky!
He even made Shelden look good and we bit on it!
The New England Patriot runs a terrific scheme in Boston!
Who Dats come out of nowhere and shine in New England!
Even the falcons and Dimitroff are running a terrific scheme here in the “A”!
The Falcons are beginning to plug ‘em in too! (See injuries)
I like the Hawks direction. Twin was impressive tonight.
Fundamentals
October 18th, 2010
10:44 pm
Sheme or system is not in place. Judge Drew in Feb. Right now they have to buy in.
Fundamentals
October 18th, 2010
10:47 pm
Has the NBA ever not coveted it’s “stars”. Deal with it 303, nothin will ever change. It’s just the NBA.
Powell actually shows promise. Yes, Mr Collins looked very much improved. Etan did hold Dwight, only to watch Crawford and Bibby let down repeatedly on the 3 pt line.
ZaZa needs to go 100% into the restaraunt. He’s done with basketball.
Fundamentals
October 18th, 2010
10:48 pm
Sorry ZaZa, you know I’ve always supported your effort, but this has been painful this year. Worse than your 50% effort from last year. Have you been reading Bibby’s journal for success?