Atlanta Hawks: Al Horford welcomes long stay in Atlanta as extension negotiations begin
Hawks, Horford begin negotiations on contract extension.
Over the next few weeks the Hawks and Al Horford’s agent, Arn Tellem, will work on the terms of a contract extension beyond 2010-11 for Atlanta’s All-Star center.
That’s the money side of the equation, and Horford said negotiations are in the early stages. After considering the other factors that play into his decision, Horford said he would like to stay in Atlanta for the long term.
“How do you see yourself with the team?” Horford said about his thought process. “Do you think the team is going the right way? Obviously, you have to factor in do you like the city you are in, [do you] get along with the guys [teammates]?
“All those things favor me because I feel like we are in a good position. We’ve been playing together. This is my fourth year with the team, and I love the city of Atlanta. So I am just waiting to see what happens with this whole thing.”
Horford is set to make $5.4 million in 2010-11, the final year of his rookie-scale contract. The Hawks have until Nov. 1 to come to terms with Horford on an extension that starts in 2011-12 and can be for up to five years and about $82 million under current CBA rules.
If the sides don’t reach an agreement by then, Horford would become a restricted free agent next summer if the Hawks extend a one-year, $7.1 million qualifying offer by June 30. The Hawks would then retain the right to match any offer sheets signed by Horford.
Hawks GM Rick Sund, citing his policy of not speaking publicly about players’ contracts, declined to comment on negotiations with Horford.
Horford, 24, was the No. 3 overall selection as an early-entrant prospect out of Florida in the 2007 draft. Eastern Conference coaches voted him to his first All-Star team last season and new Hawks coach Larry Drew recently named Horford as a tri-captain along with Joe Johnson and Josh Smith.
This summer Horford, who is undersized by NBA center standards at 6-10 and 245 pounds, said the Hawks needed to add an “impact” center to be a contender in the East. The Hawks ended up signing free agent centers Jason Collins and Etan Thomas to veteran’s minimum contracts.
But Horford said he’s looking forward to Drew’s plan of playing him at power forward alongside Zaza Pachulia, Collins or Thomas.
“I think with Coach Drew’s new mindset, he plans to play me more at the four, which is encouraging to me,” Horford said. “I am happy about that. Obviously I still would like to play center, but if I can spend more time at the four, that would be great.”
MC
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175 comments Add your comment
Jae Evolution
October 3rd, 2010
3:50 pm
Sign Al, then work on signing Jamal or trading him.
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
4:05 pm
Man, if Al would give us a hometown discount, it would be great. Maybe a 11.5m, 12.5m the next year etc. Hope we don’t have to max him, but he’s very close to being worth it by today’s NBA standards. As of now – his max is 13.3m to start and 10.5% increases per year. Rudy Gay money basically.
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
4:06 pm
I love Jamal, but I am of the opinion, the guy has a 10.8m dollar contract, play hard, and good things will happen. But unless he takes a big paycut, he probably won’t be in ATL.
dstdeelite
October 3rd, 2010
4:18 pm
It seems like the AJC is being a little messy. lol…On Saturday there’s a story written about how they won’t offer an extension to JC. The next day they write about them trying to get one done with Al. SMH…lol!!
O'Brien
October 3rd, 2010
4:19 pm
Steve W,
I’m thinking 5 years, $65 – $70 mil is the minimum starting point it would take to sign Al. And why should Al take a hometown discount when JJ did not?
As a Hawks fan, I would love to see Al take a discount, but I wont be surprised if his agent is looking for the max 5 years, $82 mil.
Sara
October 3rd, 2010
4:29 pm
Good to hear the extension talk has begun. Goodwin Sports still has not taken Al off their client list –> http://www.goodwinsports.com/bio_horford.html.
Michael Cunningham
October 3rd, 2010
4:40 pm
@dstdeelite: “It seems like the AJC is being a little messy. lol…On Saturday there’s a story written about how they won’t offer an extension to JC. The next day they write about them trying to get one done with Al. SMH…lol!!”
ha . . . the AJC is not in charge of Hawks contract extensions. if they were, i would publicly demand to be first in line for one and ask to be traded if they did not comply. but with that would be kind of pointless since i don’t have a contract to begin with, haha.
i_am_soulstar
October 3rd, 2010
4:43 pm
5 years, 65 million is fair, but that’s not how Arn “Soulja Boy” Tellum will sell it.
Still, with fear of the unknown (CBA), the Hawks should have the upper hand in negotiations.
Glad to know they’re working on it.
I Heart Atlanta
October 3rd, 2010
4:53 pm
Ran into AL at the CNN center today on my way to the Falcons game.
ant banks
October 3rd, 2010
5:01 pm
MC,
what does the hawks financial situation look like? can we sign AL and crawford without going over the cap?
drmaryb (*_*)
October 3rd, 2010
5:07 pm
Ding!
truthspitter
October 3rd, 2010
5:09 pm
David Lee got 6 years $80 million. Al Horford is worth 5 year 65 million atleast. I am thinking he will get more like 5 year $70 million. Either way he is going to make 11 or $12 million atleast next year. That’s gonna put us at 61 or $62 million with just 8 players signed meaning we will need atleast 5 more players to meet minimum needed and have about $8.5 million to sign them. If we draft a good 1st rounder that will be 9 players. So, we will be looking at signing 4 players with a $7 million to spend. Meaning there is no way to re-sign Jamal unless someone is traded and I just don’t see that. So, Jamal has to be traded and hopefully they can push Marvin or Zaza off on someone else with Jamal because Bibby’s contract comes off next year so it’s not so bad. Look for Jamal to be traded.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 3rd, 2010
5:12 pm
Bust a Cap in It!
At some point this team needs to go over the cap.
All legitimate contenders and winners do.
So, Get Over It!
ant banks
October 3rd, 2010
5:13 pm
TRUTHSPITTER,
thanks. great info. i jus’ hope that jamal is professional enough to bust his arse for us like he did last year. i hope that we trade him sooner than later.
ant banks
October 3rd, 2010
5:15 pm
DRMARYB,
i agree wit’chu. i have heard that teams make money by goin’ DEEP into the playoffs. maybe if we go over the cap, asg can make up the difference
Michael Cunningham
October 3rd, 2010
5:15 pm
@ ant banks: “MC, what does the hawks financial situation look like? can we sign AL and crawford without going over the cap?”
they have about $50 million committed to salaries in 2011-12. when you say “cap” do you mean the tax threshold? because they are over the cap now and figure to be next year, too, like most NBA teams. can’t say right now if a deal for Crawford would put them over the tax because a) can’t know how much a Crawford extension would cost and b) no way to tell what the tax threshold will be next season or even what the basic structure of the CBA will look like.
The Truth
October 3rd, 2010
5:15 pm
HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
Al (a captain) is seeking a long term deal with apparent dreams of being a permanent PF with occasional spot duty at the 5. But guess what? Josh Smith (a captain) plays the PF position and would be miss-fitted at the 3. This problem seems unsolvable as both players are essential parts of the core. I’m sure this will be a talking point for Al’s agent during negotiations. Since Al has publicly become more vocal about playing more PF, maybe dancing with Etan during practice has changed Al’s attitude about permanent duties at the center position. It is one thing to ask Al to play the center position temporarily until the Hawks acquire a bona-fide center; but to ask Al to play the center position permanently for the next 5 or 6 years and beyond when he isn’t enthused about it is quite another and could be a potential deal breaker. We shall see
vava74
October 3rd, 2010
5:18 pm
5 years 70 million.
More than fair.
Since the new CBA will probably mean that teams will have less money, I don’t think Al will be able to get that type of deal elsewhere.
ILL-Logical
October 3rd, 2010
5:24 pm
History appears to be repeating itself here in Atlanta agasin with yet another media/managrment annointed hero being designated in direct contravention of the salient facts.
Need I remind anyone of the immortal “Frenchie Francouer”, the next Chipper Jones or (inspite of today’s win courtesy of Roddie White’s unbelievable hustle which erased Matty Ice’s bonehead throw) the anti-Vick.
All Star Al is being treated as if he is the messiah made flesh and even if his extension doesn’t come at the expense of losing Jamal; his “demand” to play the 4 is being trested as a divine command. And Josh Smith, who is selling more merchendise, has to move again ,for the 4th time in his career to placate the caprice of management’s draft decisions.
What happens to the teaam when ASA doesn’t pan out as the saviour at the 4?
Publix
October 3rd, 2010
5:28 pm
Can’t wait for the season to start. HOW ABOUT THEM FALCONS???? ALL THE WAY BABY!!! (hopefully)
The Hawks do not need to wait to trade JC, just do it now and get whomever you’ll get to be part of camp and get used to the offense.
Send JC to Bobcats and bring back Diaw. He can play various positions and the Bobcats need someone who can run the point. Another reason why it would be good, both of their contracts are expiring at the end of the year. It also gives Charlotte another scorer which they are in need of. It gives us someone who can either come of the bench for Marvin or maybe even start.
lewis
October 3rd, 2010
5:30 pm
The Lies
I.MUS WRITE
October 3rd, 2010
5:41 pm
Show Al the money!!!
ant banks
October 3rd, 2010
6:00 pm
PUBLIX,
why trade jc1 within’ the division? SEE PHILLY AND THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS. getttin’ diaw for jc1? what will that do after this season?
i_am_soulstar
October 3rd, 2010
6:04 pm
How did Boozer break his hand?
i_am_soulstar
October 3rd, 2010
6:05 pm
Sux for the Bulls
Ramon
October 3rd, 2010
6:06 pm
Horford= 5 Years, $63 million.
Grandad
October 3rd, 2010
6:27 pm
ILL-Logical
Seems to me, not only did Roody White make an unbelievable
hustle play but so did Harvey Dahl to run down and recover
the fumble. *(Two teammates who di not quit on the play)
*Symbolic of a Mike Smith coached team.
As for “Matty Ice” pretty good fortitude to put the interception
behind him and lead the team back down the field again for the win.
I’m sorry I didn’t realize Vick played today?
I thought he was on the Igles as Kincaid calls them.
Bravo Falcons, All = team win!
O'Brien
October 3rd, 2010
6:28 pm
Boozer out 8 weeks is a gift for the Hawks. Hawks were the luckiest team in the NBA last year in terms of injuries, so hopefully we can escape the injury bugs this year.
As for the Jamal situation, he does not have much leverage. However, I hope Rick is open to trade offers (fair trade offers) for him. LD will have enough issues to deal with, and we dont know if Jamal will be a Chemistry problem.
IMO, there is nothing Jamal can do to earn himself an extension with the Hawks unless he is wiling to take a big paycut to stay with a winning team.
Based on JJ’s salary, and Al’s upcoming extension, and the drafting of Jordan Crawford, the Hawks will not give jamal the contract he is looking for.
However, some team out there might pay Jamal more than what the Hawks will, because they could pay Jamal to be a startng SG for a couple years.
Grandad
October 3rd, 2010
6:28 pm
*(di[d] not quit)
Grandad
October 3rd, 2010
6:47 pm
For those who worry about Josh & Al:
Josh is a *[4]!
-&-
Al is a *[4]?
I’ve said this before…please listen;
“both Josh and Al are -basketball players-”!
It don’t matter if they are [3] & [4],
or [4] & [5], or [X] & [Y] for that matter.
Does it really matter if your two best Bigs are playin’ with:
*Zaza @[5] or *Marv @[3].
They’re still your two best options.
Who cares who’s on the floor with them.
Put a trained monkey out there and call him a [5],
they’re still you’re two best Bigs.
I trust LD to figure out the match-ups.
richbrave
October 3rd, 2010
7:59 pm
Enter your comments here
richbrave
October 3rd, 2010
7:59 pm
BOOYAH, the BRAVES squeak into the wild card. GO BRAVES beat the GIANTS
RomeDawg
October 3rd, 2010
8:40 pm
I know that this will not go over well, but what about some package including Josh Smith and Jamal Crawford for some legit size, maybe Al Jefferson or the big man out in Los Angeles. Smith is one heckuva talent but I am not sure he will reach his full potential here. He seems to sulk sometimes. From one of the previous articles on the AJC I viewed, I don’t believe Crawford can put this $ issue behind him. My guess is they both stay and we end up the 5th or 6th seed in the East and make a first round exit. Crawford leaves at years end with nothing else coming back in his place because I don’t believe he fits the Hawks long term plans.
ryan
October 3rd, 2010
8:52 pm
This is going to uglier and uglier if Sund can’t seal the deal on Horford or Jammal Crawford than Sund should be fired .
Publix
October 3rd, 2010
9:32 pm
I am not saying that they HAVE to get Diaw. I just believe that JC1 should go if he is not happy and we can’t offer him the money he will be looking for. In return I would just like to see a good SF coming to us because Marvin is ok for now, but once we play contenders, he is the weakest link.
No, we don’t have a legit center, but neither did Detroit when they won their championship. So whom else on the #3 can we get for JC1????
Some candidates:
Diaw
Prince
Battier
Peja
Salmons
Deng
Out of all of those that we maybe would be able to get (not sure about Salmons), I would take Battier simply because of his defensive skills.
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
9:42 pm
I’ve been sayin’ the best the Hawks could hope for against the Bulls is that Boozer is injury prone – now he proves it. That may be recurring over the rest of his career – various injuries. Hope Boozer doesn’t turn into Elton Brand.
I still like Crawford for Lou Williams of the Sixers – I know some other factors would have to be ameliorated so it would work – but Lou is a hometown keeper…
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
9:45 pm
Many have been saying JJ signed the worst contract over the summer – nope – Boozer and Amare are both injury prone, and I think they’ll turn out to be the worst contracts signed. Drew Gooden is close…
ryan
October 3rd, 2010
9:49 pm
Thats what i have been saying about Amare he has a bad eye and bad knees why does Mello whant to go play in New York so bad when they have one of the worst rosters in the NBA .
Sautee
October 3rd, 2010
10:03 pm
Did Taj go over to Boozer’s house and trip him?
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
10:05 pm
Right now, no way we can sign Al and Jamal, it’s just simple math. But what brilliant strategy by Sund:
Drafting Jordan Crawford. If JJ would have walked, you plug Jamal in at SG, and Jordan/Mo’ Evans off the bench.
JJ stayed, now you have a year to develop Jordan behind Jamal.
Pape Sy – he has a year to develop to back up Marvin (probably). Or if he develops at the PG, you can trade Bibby’s expiring next year and let him back up Teague at PG (or start if he’s good enough).
Sund replaces 10.8m and 2.5m in Jamal and Mo’ with about $500,000.00 and 1.2m with Sy and Crawford next season. And the Hawks get younger, more athletic, and more exciting while saving 11.7m – if Crawford and Sy work out. If not, they’re cheap enough experiments to cut your losses and go forward. Sund is amazing working with ASG’s budget restraints.
And instead of Etan, Collins, and Powell next season, I look for maybe a 1st pick and 2 DLeague type guys, saving even more money.
And don’t be surprised to see a Gladyr or another 2nd round type as the 5th G next year, unless Teague/Jordan aren’t working out, then they may burn a 1st at that position. Money is what it is all about – win the most games with the cheapest payroll as possible.
PS – Trey Thompkins from UGA would be a beast in the motion O. 6-10 250 who can pop 3’s and pass.
And 1 last thing to remember – LD only has 2 years guranteed on his contract. He has 2 years to prove himself, so he’s going to be wanting to win big as quickly as possible, to get that extension. He doesn’t have much of cushion here.
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
10:10 pm
We traded Childress for the Trade exception and a 2nd pick. I don’t think the Hawks necessarily wanted a 1st pick – he we traded down 3 picks to save money this year, and sold our 31st pick. I think we wanted a 2nd to save cash – not saying we could have gotten a 1st for Josh Childress anyway.
And please, nobody suggest trading Al or Smoove anymore. We can get legit bigs without sacrificing them. We let Shaq and probably Damp get away already. They’ll be another Anthony Tolliver type come along from DLeague or somewhere that we can snag.
Hmmm
October 3rd, 2010
10:16 pm
It’s Ironic that There is a Picture of AL with Boozer in the background for this blog because news out of Chicago is that he’s out eight weeks with a broken hand….not that it matters. We still would’ve wiped the floor with chicago anyway and had extera incentive b/c the media are idiots and just put like four teams ahead of us for no reason.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/10/carlos-boozer-fractures-hand/
Hmmm
October 3rd, 2010
10:17 pm
“Boozer suffered the injury on Saturday during the Bulls’ day off. According to team sources, Boozer tripped over a bag in his house and fell.”
LOL
Hmmm
October 3rd, 2010
10:18 pm
His wife probably beat him for cheating or something.
moboman
October 3rd, 2010
10:30 pm
Since Horford will never be enough of what we need at the 5, he needs to prove himself at the 4 before we can afford to drop big $$ on him. Hawks have to decide who their big minute guys are going forward and pull a trade with some excess pieces. Not sure who might go, but we have a logjam at the 4 (and the 2 unless JJ will play the 3). The Hawks are a blockbuster trade from moving to the next level. This problem needs to be reckoned with.
northcyde
October 3rd, 2010
10:56 pm
Grandad . . yes and no @ your 6:47 pm post.
Look at the situation out in Golden St with Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry. Both are guards who are 6-3 and smaller. ( I think Monta is 6-3 and Curry is 6-1 ). Both are guards who are weak defensively but good offensively. But one of the main issues that happened right away, was Monta Ellis complaining that he couldn’t play the 2 alongside Curry.
The issue?
Since Monta is bigger, he’s forced to guard the 2. And with Monta’s body type, the vast majority of 2’s are not only taller, but much bigger and stronger than Monta. This means Monta gets DESTROYED defensively, although he plays passing lanes well enough to rack up steals. But it’s a fool’s gold type defense, much like how Iverson used to be a steals leader, but was a horrible man defender.
This is why Monta, right off the bat, complained during the preseason last year that he and Curry couldn’t play with each other. That backcourt gets destroyed defensively, but Nellie with his system, wasn’t worried about position or matchup. He was simply trying to put his best players on the floor.
Monta was right, and now they have a major issue in Golden St. Do you keep Monta or do you keep Curry? Because while both are good players, you can’t play them on the court at the same time much and expect to win games. Even in the great comeback that the Warriors had against us, it came with Curry leading the way, and Monta on the bench.
The main problem with the Horford issue, is that he keeps talking about WANTING to play the 4, even if he doesn’t mind playing the 5. He doesn’t look at the situation as you look at it, in the sense that it doesn’t matter where he plays. If it didn’t matter to him, he wouldn’t keep talking about playing PF.
Like Big Ray said in some of the previous blogs, if Al is gonna be “BOSS”, he needs to play tougher . . . no matter what position he plays.
People want Jamal to “shut up and play”. Well Mr. Horford may have to do the same. Because when it comes to Dwight Howard, HE’S the one that needs to get the job done. Not rely on Zaza, Etan, and Collins to hack him to death playing center, while Al takes it easy playing PF, and Smoove tries to play SF, just so Al can play PF.
Swatguy
October 3rd, 2010
11:11 pm
Solution: Move Joe to the 3 and trade Marvin for a first (late) . If he does not bring a 1, trade him for a 2 and a cratew of mushrooms. Sign Al and Jamal.
northcyde
October 3rd, 2010
11:21 pm
And don’t get me wrong. I’m not against Al playing PF at all. I just want him to quit talking about playing it, knowing the situation we have with our big men. He knows that those scrub centers may not help us. So he needs to get into a mindset that he’s going to try to dominate the game on the frontline, regardless of what position he plays.
One thing about it. If our “centers” aren’t effective, we can’t afford to play Al extended minutes at PF. So he might as well get mentally prepared for that possibility.
northcyde
October 3rd, 2010
11:28 pm
Swat . . . now who is going to take Marvin and his 4 years on his contract, with the new CBA coming up? And give us a pick?
Only a high payroll team who sees Marvin as the missing piece, would do that.
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
11:28 pm
Northcyde – In my high school days I played all 5 positions on the court at one time or other. I was around 6ft. with long arms and could sky all those years ago. Used to jump center some because I was athletic. I said all that to say this, have you ever just had somebody that no matter how technically proficient you were, you just couldn’t guard them? I have. I ran cross country, was smart, a defensive stopper. Did the dirty work, loose balls, put me on thier best player guy. But a couple of guys I just didn’t have the answer for. And I think that is Horford with Dwight, and he knows it. And now Dwight is in his head so to speak. I don’t know the answer, but I know that Horford just can’t handle Dwight right now – end of story.
I think if Al got with a personal trainer and said I need to gain 30lbs of solid muscle this off season regardless of what we have to do – maybe. And I know they’re both listed at 6-10, with Dwight listed as 20lbs heavier. He just looks so much bigger. I’m just trying to be practical and a realist. There are some guys other guys just don’t match up well with, regardless of how hard you play etc. And that is the case with Al and Dwight.
And I also know what Al means about the pounding by bigger guys. It is a grind. I loved when coach allowed me to play C though. I kneed those big guys to death, was quicker than them, would steal entry passes etc. But if you got a real banger, just their natural force, elbows etc. just wore you down. Bruised bad the next day. I can’t imagine at Al’s level.
BTW – usually played 3/2 – worst position was PG. Great shooter, very good passer, not a good ball handler full court, only driving.
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
11:33 pm
Northcyde – and I do agree with you – it must matter to Al about playing 4, or he wouldn’t keep bringing it up. I could see Al being a dominant 4 in this League. I read somewhere (hoopinion? I think) our best lineup was ZaZa and Horford on the court together – had a +5.3 when this happened. Sure wish we would have signed Damp instead of Collins, especially with Josh losing weight and shooting the midrange. But I still say Josh is a natural 4 also.
I agree with most everybody else on this blog – we really have 2 PF’s starting. But I don’t buy Marvin as a 4. His body type is not suited to the 4. I hope he’s suited to be a 3!
Melvin
October 3rd, 2010
11:38 pm
Noah agree to an extension…
The news about Noah comes on a day when the Bulls learned that Carlos Boozer, their top acquisition this summer, broke a bone in his right hand in a fall at home and could be out about two months.
The Chicago Tribune reported the deal is worth about $11 million annually with incentives that could take it higher
SteveW
October 3rd, 2010
11:44 pm
Melvin – Al is probably worth a little more than that – I guess we’ll see…
northcyde
October 4th, 2010
12:34 am
SteveW . . . no doubt. In my playing days, the football/basketball player types always gave me problems while playing PG. Here I was trying to guard some other PG who may have bee my height, but was 40 – 50 lbs heavier than me, and built to play football more than basketball.
This is why some folks on here just don’t blow off Al’s comments. It’s almost like when a smoker says to a non-smoker . . “Do you mind if I smoke?” News flash to smokers: AL NON-SMOKERS MIND THAT YOU SMOKE . . but out of cmmon courtesy, we may say “no, go ahead”.
This is Al as a center . . “No, I don’t mind if I play center . . but if you give me a choice, I’m playing PF.”
Al is a non-smoker who tolerates smokers.
truthspitter
October 4th, 2010
1:07 am
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5646081
ESPN is reporting Noah is getting $60 million. As stated above Al should get atleast 5 year $65 but I am starting to think it could be more like $70 million. Either way, get it over we so we can see what Sund is made of how he handles getting something good back for Jamal.
Clyde
October 4th, 2010
1:12 am
Vin Baker > Horford
Najeh Davenpoop
October 4th, 2010
4:55 am
Horford’s agent is not going to accept a dime less than what David Lee got.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 4th, 2010
4:58 am
At least, that’s my guess. Horford is coming off a season where he got picked for an All-Star spot over David Lee, and although Lee scores more points, Horford gets less touches than Lee, is just as efficient, and is widely regarded as being a much better defender. I don’t see why Soulja Boy Tellem would ask for anything less than the 6 years/$80 million Lee got.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 4th, 2010
4:59 am
I’m not saying that Horford necessarily does or does not deserve that money; just saying that his agent could make a pretty solid case for him deserving that kind of money.
Rev in Tampa
October 4th, 2010
7:17 am
truthspitter, I’ve appreciated all your posts from last night. Very insightful.
vava74
October 4th, 2010
7:38 am
Yes, Clyde, specially in that essential characteristic which an NBA player must truly excel: binge-drinking.
Vin Baker was a pretty decent player with a more polished offensive game that Al but he could not guard his own shadow and was a lazy underachiever.
O'Brien
October 4th, 2010
7:46 am
Najeh,
The max Horford can get is 5 years, $82.5 mil. But you’re right. I think his agent will be looking for the max.
And I dont blame him. JJ got a max 6 year deal, no hometown discount, so I can see Al pushing for the max too. Especially since he feels like he is playing out of position.
I hope 5 years, $70 mil will be enough to get the deal done though.
dap01
October 4th, 2010
8:00 am
Al would not be a top level PF.
MsDee
October 4th, 2010
8:14 am
Ok blog family, who all will be attending the ‘Meet the GM and Head coach LD’ tomorrow? I will be there..
i_am_soulstar
October 4th, 2010
8:50 am
Ms. Dee,
I’ll definitely be in attendance. I wonder if Rick Sund will answer my submitted question.
I asked if they’d hire me to piss Jeff Teague off in between quarters and during timeouts, seeing as how he plays more aggressive when he’s angry. I cited my experience pissing people off, so *fingers crossed*
O’Brien,
Arn will look for a near-max deal, but I think both the Hawks and Horford know that he isn’t a max player. Plus, it’s all about the market. JJ might have been able to get away with a max deal because of the market during the summer, but Horford isn’t dropping 16 million a year numbers, will be a RFA, and probably doesn’t want his income to be a victim of the CBA.
If Horford gets anything above 5 years, 65 million, the Hawks are either financially irresponsible, or Tellum has a mouthpiece comparable to the late, great Johnny Cochran and/or A Pimp Named Slickback.
Considering that Horford would only become a RFA and the current state of the market (CBA and all), The Hawks shouldn’t have to
Big Ray
October 4th, 2010
8:57 am
I only hope Al does whatever it takes to become the warrior we need him to be. Because that starting center type we keep yapping about? It’s him. It ain’t anybody else on this roster. Sorry.
And we ain’t getting somebody else’s starting center with some stupid trade suggestion (Marvin, Jamal, Bibby, and whatever). Ain’t gonna happen. Al says he’s going to war with what he has. Then become a warrior, for only warriors go to war.
By the way, Al is 6′9.75″ in shoes and weighs about 245. Dwight Howard is 6′10.5″ or so in shoes, and weighs about 270, every ounce of it is muscle, starting with those massive shoulders.
Big Ray
October 4th, 2010
9:02 am
The one quibble I have with all of this is the idea that Al is “demanding” things. Since when? Yes, we’ve heard plenty about him “talking” about playing PF, and that does bother me when it comes to Josh being on the floor at the 3 spot, to an extent. But I’m not seeing where Al is asking that somebody be brought in to replace him at the 5, so he can play at the 4. He originally asked for somebody to “help me and Josh out”, so I don’t think he’s looking to kick Josh around the curb. But what the hey…it’s more fun to speculate and make up ish than it is to address the real issue.
Horford’s gotta get up for this, even on the nights he faces Dwight. Period.
And whoever suggested that Josh has had to move positions 3 or 4 times to accomodate others has lost their mind. Josh has been at the 4 since he came into this league. Never changed.
Big Ray
October 4th, 2010
9:03 am
This is Al as a center . . “No, I don’t mind if I play center . . but if you give me a choice, I’m playing PF.”
Al is a non-smoker who tolerates smokers.
LOL. I gotta say, that’s as good of an analogy as there is for the situation…
i_am_soulstar
October 4th, 2010
9:08 am
Also, I think that with Noah getting inked for about 5 years, 55 million plus incentives, this shapes the market as well. I give Al the edge in terms of who’s better, but these are still very comparable players.
And with a 20-10 guy like David Lee getting 6 years, 80 million (about 13.3 mil a year), I just don’t see anything above 13 million/yr happening for Big Al.
vava74
October 4th, 2010
9:23 am
i_am-soulstar,
great posts. I am rooting for you to get the job.
great pick up on the fact that Lee’s contract is 80 million for SIX years and not for 5.
if we look at Noah, 5 at 11 per (average) and Lee, 6 at 13.3 per, I think Al should get a maximum of 5 at 12 and call it a day (the 70 million I mentioned above).
Anything above that is a foolish demand and would be a foolish decision by the management.
Next summer there will not be a lot of cash around and Horford must realize that any offers will be for him to play CENTER and not PF.
i_am_soulstar
October 4th, 2010
9:24 am
Big Ray
October 4th, 2010
8:57 am
“I only hope Al does whatever it takes to become the warrior we need him to be. Because that starting center type we keep yapping about? It’s him.”
Indeed. He plays the position well against everyone except Dwight, but folks are too narrow-minded to see that this can be said about at least 26 of the other 28 starting centers in the league.
And Al could step it up in the weight room, but Dwight is still an athletic freak of nature.
I think the importance of point guard play truly goes unnoticed. When you have a driving, slashing point guard who can distribute and stop the opposing team’s PG from facilitating, it will make all the difference in the world, especially against teams like the Magic.
Astro Joe
October 4th, 2010
9:25 am
OB, the comparison between Al and Joe is unfair. This is Al’s first contract after his rookie deal, Joe just signed his 2nd. Al is a 1X Al-Star, Joe 4X. Al has never averaged more than 15 points in a season, Joe has been a 20 point scorer for what, 4-5 years? Al’s peers in terms of contracts are guys like Noah, David Lee, Lamarcus Aldridge and Al Jefferson. Not Joe Johnson.
I believe that Horford fired his previous agent late last season and hired Tellum (Joe’s agent). We can assume that Horford hired Tellum with this contract in mind… so he likely won’t accept anything less than the full value for an All-Star big with strong leadership skills and a pristine public image.
i_am_soulstar
October 4th, 2010
9:29 am
vava74,
Thanks man. I agree, the Hawks hold all the leverage here.
Teezo
October 4th, 2010
9:38 am
Looking at what Noah and Lee got…Its only fair that Al got the numbers between them both only b/c Lee has earned it and Al is getting there and Noah is not as good as Al in my eyes…5 years/70-75 mil is more than enough…I don’t see Al being as greedy as JJ, but hey, who knows…Peace…
ILL-Logical
October 4th, 2010
10:17 am
*And whoever suggested that Josh has had to move positions 3 or 4 times to accomodate others has lost their mind. Josh has been at the 4 since he came into this league. Never changed.*
No, I have my mind right..wait,it was here a minute ago.
Josh was drafted as a small forward(3); played some shooting guard (2) as well the first yuear. When Marvin was drafted ,he was shifted to power forward(4). Two years ago, the previous head coach played him at the center postion when the team played small ball.
My point, instead of developing the young-he was 17 draft day-athletic but raw talent, the coach just kept on the floor because of his superior athletic ability. And the team continued to draft players at his postion in the first round: Marvin; Sheldon and Al in successive years.
Now, after being named runner up for defensive player of the year; the youngest and shortest player to reach 1,000 blocks in his career, the team decides that they must accomadate the wishes of ASA and move Josh around again. And remember, he gained 20 ilbs and traained with Hakeem the dream on his own when the switched him to the 4 in anticipation of the great things that Marvin was going to bring.
So while I may be mentally challenged,you can check the record.
OJ SIMPSON
October 4th, 2010
10:26 am
Big Ray,
Al Hortford is not a center, he is a PF..The Hawks have the smallest front line in the NBA…Twin and Pachulia should play alot..
Is Morris still on the team?
KevinM
October 4th, 2010
10:37 am
This team will be limited as long as we have a frontline of Al/Smoove/Marvin. Facts are facts. Until the ASG decides to go get some rebounders and backline defenders, the best you can hope for is the last 2 year’s scenario.
Al and Smoove are power forwards, fact.
Marvin is a lower tier SF, fact.
We are counting on Zaza, Collins, Thomas for defensive purposes, fact.
LD has his hands full getting this roster to win on the road when its critical.
And OJ, Morris is in China. http://www.allkyhoops.com/2010/08/former-kentucky-big-man-randolph-morris.html
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 4th, 2010
10:38 am
Al Horford is a pf/c or c/pf. My point is he plays both positions for the ATL Hawks. Just good to know the ATL Hawks are on the path to keeping Triple Threat together (The Core).
Keep the Boss in the A. Go Hawks!
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 4th, 2010
10:42 am
Fact, Al Horford plays the center position for the Atlanta Hawks.
Opinion, “LD has his hands full getting this roster to win on the road when its critical.”
The 2010-11 Hawks squad have yet to play a game.
KevinM
October 4th, 2010
10:59 am
Playing center doesn’t mean he is a center. If you want to stay in the same position you are today, Al is a center. He isn’t stopping Dwight, and he isn’t going to be big enough for us on defense against Boston or Miami.
Keep thinking that we can go further with this lineup, but this lineup isn’t better than Denver, and you know Denver isn’t going to the Finals of anything.
I remember people coming here saying we are going to make people match up against us. Well, isn’t that what Nelson did at Golden State with Ellis and Curry? What they have is 2 guys who can’t defend many.
niremetal
October 4th, 2010
11:12 am
Ray,
Fixed:
Because that starting center type we keep yapping about? It’s him. It ain’t anybody else
on this rosterin this league.Jody
October 4th, 2010
11:17 am
KevinM,
Great posts.
Mz. Hawkdafied
October 4th, 2010
11:22 am
Mz. Hawkdafied great posts. (LOL)
JoJo the Godfather
October 4th, 2010
11:48 am
KevinM…I have a hard time understanding why having 2 of top 10 PF’s in the league is a bad thing (IMO)…Especially when one has the ability to play the 5 better than the majority of the centers in the league, and both are 24 and getting better every year…This team is not likely to go from second round lunch meat to the finals in one year, but replacing the coach, extending our core players, and developing our young draft picks is a step in the right direction…Your view that this roster is seriously flawed is not shared by me…Would I love a legit 7 footer and an all-star PG?…Sure I would…But last time I checked, neither was available, at least not for the assets we have to offer.
Also, I fully expect to see a lot of this lineup against Orlando & Boston: Teague, Joe, Josh, Al & Za Za, with Crawford, Crawford & Evans backing up the guards, Marvin off the bench at the 3, and Thomas & Collins backing up Za Za…The firepower from the guards to either get penetration or hit from 3, and Josh & Al’s ability to knock down the 15-20 footer will be the key.
Mike is back
October 4th, 2010
11:51 am
MC, I think it’s a great move by the ASG…to go a head and get AL…locked down. The thing about AL is…YOU KNOW WHAT YOU’RE GOING TO GET…he’s going to give you maximum effort night and night out…PLUS he has the talent, the skills and the intangibles to be a Super Star in this league.
This guy is a winner…dude goes out and battles the BIG BEHEMOTHS of the league…on a nightly basis. We can argue whether he is a true center or not…all day long…however, as his game continue to evolve…he will have the ability to play the PF and C positions very effectively…for years to come…AL will be looking for MAX dollars…you can count on it.
I think the fact that AL will be better matched against his opponents this season…bodes well for his overall game…especially his defense…I pay the man…and lock him down.
i_am_soulstar, excellent point on your 9:24 am post
i_am_soulstar
October 4th, 2010
12:03 pm
The memory of the fan is short by nature, often crowded by images of a player’s most recent performance.
Marvin was ranked #27 among NBA Small Forwards last year in terms of PER. And we loathe him and include him in every possible trade scenario for it.
But the year before that, he was ranked #11.
I bet Sund’s mindset is to wait and see if Drew’s system allows Marvin to get back to his 08-09 form, and then decide whether to ship him out or not. If he gets back to 08-09 form, I think we will indeed have a formidable frontline.
Astro Joe
October 4th, 2010
12:06 pm
I wonder if the fans of players like Dave Cowans and Bob Lanier argued for the better part of their 12+ year career if they were “true enters”? And then they looked up and those guys were being inducted in the HOF. I’d rather have Horford playing center for us tham Dalembert or Nenad Krstic, and there are more guys like Dalembert/Krstic out there than there are D-12 and… uh, well, like I said, there are more Dalembert/Krstics out there than the one and only D-12.
O'Brien
October 4th, 2010
12:14 pm
Horford and Josh are our best options right now, because its not like there is another all star center available. So Al needs to be ready to hold it down every night.
And when we meet up with Orlando, it might require tag teams, but thats ok. At the very least, we have enough bigs to play Dwight one on one (foul him everytime if you have to), and our other guys can stay on the shooters.
After reading some of the posts and thinking about it some more, I think 5 years, $65 mil is a good number for Al.
i_am_soulstar
October 4th, 2010
12:16 pm
Thanks Mike.
GT Alum
October 4th, 2010
12:30 pm
Wonder how Crawford feels about the Hawks working on Horford’s deal apparently ahead of his. At least, it would seem to indicate who they think is more important to the team.
KevinM
October 4th, 2010
12:35 pm
Jojo, I am not knocking the talent on this team, but I am knocking the talent that isn’t on this team. Seriously, when you start considering Zaza, Collins and Thomas as the best available, then there is nothing to discuss further.
When you need someone to back up Marvin because there is no depth there, you don’t come out and say watch out for the 53rd pick in the draft. That comment about bringing Marvin off the bench? It isn’t realistic. I thought Mo might light a fire under him when he came here, but have wised up since.
There are flaws in this roster and flaws that could have been covered over better than they have. Since we have 2 of the top 10 PFs in the league, then shouldn’t we have ammuntion to balance out this roster with Jamal not being considered a long term asset here?
OBrien, I agree with you….Al and Smoove are by FAR our best options. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be trying to go to the next level, which we aren’t it appears, because of the cap excuses and the undying love of the core. If we had Brandon Roy here with JJ, I would be asking for a more balanced lineup instead of 2 potential all-stars playing the same position.
Its about balance at every position, something we don’t have at the 1, 2, or 5. We have 2 2’s, 2 4’s and the rest is complementary. That is how I see this roster.
LD has his hands tied, and if you are satisfied with ok teams that make the playoffs and win a round or 2, then all is good. But if LD doesn’t further this team by going another round with a team who has been there enough times now, then it is an unsuccessful season.
Finishing 3rd in your own division isn’t considered a huge accomplishment.
The Truth
October 4th, 2010
12:54 pm
From Al own words:
“I’ve been adjusting to it (playing center) since I got here, so obviously I would like to play a little more at the power forward position, which is my natural position. But I’m OK with still playing some at center,” explained Horford to HOOPSWORLD.
We have probably beat this horse to death about Al playing center over the last 2 yrs. during his rookie contract and perhaps if we paid a dollar for every argument that was created we would all be broke by now. But as Al’s agent opens contract negotiation talks with the Hawks about an extension for the next 5 or so years worth perhaps 70M plus dollars, then much of these debates will be cleared up. Why, because the job title he will be re-applying for calls for a full time center position, not a PF. The PF job position is already filled. In this scenario, if he accepts the job as a center, he can’t claim to be a victim of circumstances anymore if expectations are not met. No matter how much he tries to publicly alter the job title, the center job description is quite clear. In the NBA, you, me and everyone’s mother knows what that means. We need him to be a center, not a PF. Josh Smith, Josh Power, Zaza and Etan all can play PF. I wonder would Sund pay 70M for another starting PF when we already have one or even a backup with as many as we have. If Al isn’t trying to stir the pot with his rhetoric, then exactly what are his intentions making these constant suggestions? If LD plays Al more at PF and less as center, he would be under-utilizing his other players while over-utilizing Al. This will only be a good idea until Al gets injured (God forbid) after he signs his 70M plus extension. Then it’s a terrible idea because our deep PF depth wasn’t exploited.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
1:01 pm
Where’s My Grammy?
KevinM Said:
“Its about balance at every position, something we don’t have at the 1, 2, or 5. We have 2 2’s, 2 4’s and the rest is complementary. That is how I see this roster. ”
Aye …. I’ve been saying that for years and ain’t nobody gave
me no Grammy!
-Little Richard-
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
1:18 pm
MRI don’t Lie!
ESPN reports Michael Vick had a MRI this morning and he has no
fractured rib bones, but there is a crack in the sternum cartilage
and ligament damage.
Now, you guys have all heard the expression,
” A sprain is worse than a fracture – right?”
He would have been better off with a fracture, the blood flowing in
the bone marrow speeds the healing to 6 weeks standard recovery
time. When you damage the white “shiny’ meat (cartilage and ligaments),
that is far worse. Because, there is no blood supply filled with nutrients
to facilitate the speed of healing. It may take 6-12 months or longer
For the body to repair the white meat. He may only heal with complete
inactivity and rest. Then some ultra-sound therapy and chondroitin
supplements or steroids. Talk about a severe and painful injury.
Vick will have pain upon breathing and all upper torso/body movements.
Simply rolling over in bed will be excruciating. He may be out for the
year and think real hard before taking off running out of the pocket
or even being tackled in jest.
2nd and 3rd ribs ain’t no joke!
Best Wishes and a Speedy Recovery – Michael!
wordsmithtom
October 4th, 2010
1:19 pm
drmary,
If you’re anything like Little Richard, you sho is pretty.
Seriously, why the focus on whether JS is a 3 or a 4; Al a 4 or a 5. Was Barkley a 3 a 4 or a5? Was Jordan a 2 or a 3? Was Magic a 1, a 2 or a 3? No, they were BASKETBALL PLAYERS.
I suggest that, if JS plays like a captain instead of a pampered kid, his minutes at 3 will be as good as his minutes at 4…and I have already seen Al play that way. Situational lineups this year instead of one size fits all. Against Orlando, JS, Al, and Zaza start, running as many backups into the frey as foul allow. Leave nothing on the bench. Run Superman till he sweats Kryptonite…..foul him till he bleeds.
And all this talk about Miami being ordained. I’m with Kobe. They’re soft, especially that finger biter they have at small forward. He can score, but he has shown no heart. I can say the same for Bosh. They’ve proved nothing. Neither have the young Hawks….for that matter. But, I believe LD has a better plan than Woody.
Hawks working out extension with Al Horford. Jamal Crawford will be ticked. – ProBasketballTalk | Basketball Video Zone
October 4th, 2010
1:19 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
1:23 pm
GT Alum said:
“Wonder how Crawford feels about the Hawks working on Horford’s deal apparently ahead of his. At least, it would seem to indicate who they think is more important to the team.”
Was that ever even a question?
doc
October 4th, 2010
1:32 pm
dmb i had that injury from a skiing accident when i was run over literally by another skier. i could hardly lean over and get a golf ball out of a cup about 6 weeks later and putt was all i could do. i continued to ski that vacation but i didnt put myself at risk for further injury beyond that. any further blows until healed will only delay the healing and continue to rip apart the tissues. that sucker hurts right now. he wont be out for a year but 8 weeks will be testing it. i wonder if he will handle this injury like the did his ankle injury where he seemed to take longer than most to get over it?
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
1:34 pm
Words are just Empty Feelings!
Wordsmithtom:
Hey Baby, I’m going to the beauty shop today.
When you have that natural beauty, like Little Richard?
It doesn’t require as much therapy to keep your game face up!
I got to keep my Game-Tite like Kobe on Game-Nite!
You never know who you might run into, on these mean streets.
rof – ktc!
(rolling on floor – kicking the couch!)
BTW – “ktc” is a MaryB original!
(you like?)
Mike is back
October 4th, 2010
1:42 pm
KevinM, I agree with drmaryb…Good Stuff.
However, on your…Finishing 3rd in your own division isn’t considered a huge accomplishment.
If the two other teams ahead of you have the best two records in the EC…which is possible? In that case…you could be third in your division and third in the EC…so under does circumstances that would be a major accomplishment for a team most prognosticators’ have finishing somewhere between 6 and 8th in the EC.
Now I think that would be a difficult feat for these Hawks to accomplish …however, its possible…hope springs eternal as the beginning of the season fast approaches…I might as well finish enjoying my dreams…its almost time to wake up. lol
U DA MAN DAWG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rufus1
October 4th, 2010
1:55 pm
Boozer Injury prone….Check Lol
He will miss 16-20 games that means the Bulls will be around 10 and 10 or worse, because the EAST HAS GOTTEN BETTER. Without Boozer they are still the same .500 team….
How could a writer think a player like Boozer could elevate a .500 team to top 5 in the NBA….Besides the fact he doesn’t play defense, but HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN INJURY PRONE!!!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
2:16 pm
You take my Breath Away!
Hey Doc, yeah I’m pretty sure Vick will need 8 – 10 weeks myself.
Due mainly to the crack in the cartilage and ligamentous sprain.
Had, it been a weight bearing joint, that thing would have prolly
ripped away from the joint.
Can, you believe his supposed best friend (Me-Angelo) hit him
hard like that. And the phantom holding penalty to make it all
nullified? smh …
Here’s My Point: I would rather have Matt Ryan playing smart
and with that 6′5″ prototypical body frame (too see over the line,
and read defenses), than to have a “wild-cat” Vick playing reckless at
the most stable QB position on my Falcons team!
Matty-Ice like, (Drew Brees taken at #10 in the Falcons/Charger Trade)
or, Matt Schaub will take you to the Big-Game by playing that
traditional QB style of play. See Donnovan McNabb.
A QB has to rely on his running backs to run the ball.
Anything else – is uncivilized!
Live Fast – Die Young!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
2:23 pm
Doc
Also, Vick has never learned how to get down and slide.
He takes way too many chances.
A very, very poor decision maker IMHO. A Reckless young man.
I saw a presser today, where his team mate said, “You just
can’t got out and take those type of hits in the NFL.”
Smart advice.
A Tale of Two Hawks « The Kobe Beef
October 4th, 2010
2:34 pm
[...] to what will certainly be the chagrin of Crawford, Atlanta has entered extension negotiations with Al Horford. Horford is entering his fourth year in the league and the final year of his rookie [...]
wordsmithtom
October 4th, 2010
2:35 pm
DrMary,
Hope Vick gets well and comes back. We all need redemption: I take him at his word. That said, he needs let his fingers do the walking….passing the ball instead of running it. He much too small to be taking those kinds of hits.
Matty Ice looked bad throwing interceptions, but he was in that scrum trying to tackle that DB when Roddy ran him down. A lesser QB might have been rattled. At his own 10 yard line; less than 2 minutes and having just F***ed up. No, he threw his best pass of the game. No way Matty can run like Vick. No way he changes a game like Vick. But, if he leads like he did after that huge mistake, he can lead this team to the promised land.
That’s redemption.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
2:37 pm
Gotta’ talk about that Vick injury on the Hawks blog.
I had to. That Falcons Blog is intolerable, those fans are
“Off The Chain!”.
Not one intellectual amongst the whole Band Wagon!
Besides, we have broken this Hawks Team down like fractions
to the millionth decimal point! What, really, else is there to
say? But, to repeat the same words.
My Roget’s Thesaurus is hiding from me … When, I reach for it?
The pages – turn!
Let’s play Ball! And, see how we measure up!
Mike is back
October 4th, 2010
2:43 pm
Drmaryb, try DLed’s blog…he tries to keep it civil.
Grandad
October 4th, 2010
2:51 pm
What if Al plays [4] on offense & [5] on defense,
and Josh plays [5] on offense & [4] on defense?
Would that make everybody happy?
JoJo the Godfather
October 4th, 2010
3:10 pm
If you offered Horford $11 million next year with 10% raises for the next 4 years, that’s a total of $67.2 million…Sounds fair…Lock him up…Also keeps his salary under Josh’s on an annual basis, so no hard feelings there.
Grandad
October 4th, 2010
3:14 pm
Another concept:
Were playing a team, such as the LAL, Totonto, NJN or Dallas;
with a stretch [4,5] or (two bigs LAL).
We would be better served to have Marv guard Gasol, Bargnani,
T.Murphy or Dirk better utilizing his defensive abilities.
Al takes the other Big, while Josh guards the [3].
In those cases, neither team would have a [3] that Josh
could not handle. *(still allowing him to play help def)
My point:
When a Coach [LD] (not Wdsn) [obviously] uses versatility
and imagination in designing his match-ups, he gets maximum
use out of his personel. …..^…see above post…^…..!
The same thing goes for offense. (simple & easy with motion)
Exploit the other team’s weakness!
wordsmithtom
October 4th, 2010
3:18 pm
Grandad,
Other players weren’t concerned about whether Charles Barkley was a center, a forward or whatever. They were too busy trying to find a tire arm cause that was the only way they could stop him.
Let the coach figure out the matchups and let the players play. If they’re basketball players, they don’t need labels.
The Truth
October 4th, 2010
3:31 pm
“If they’re basketball players, they don’t need labels.”
Tell that to Al. He’s the one with the eagerness to be PF.
northcyde
October 4th, 2010
3:35 pm
Grandad, you still don’t understand. This is about what Horford likes and dislikes, not us. I would bet that it’s tougher for Horford to defend centers, than to go up against them offensively.
What is tougher on Horford physically? Scoring on Dwight Howard or Shaq . . or defending Dwight Howard or Shaq?
STEEL(Formerly VenomSpitter)
October 4th, 2010
3:47 pm
Hey everybody here are highlights from the scrimmage with a nice J-Smoove dunk at the end.
http://www.nba.com/hawks/video/2010/10/04/JoshSmithdunk-1431337/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2
wordsmithtom
October 4th, 2010
3:50 pm
The Truth,
My suspects are that media and fans are more concerned about this than Al. He didn’t bring it up, he answered truthfully to questions from the media. What are your druthers? Fair question. We have so little else to kibbitz about.
Northcyde,
Al can score on Dwight if he keeps hitting those midrange jumpers, forcing him out of the low post. Even better if he develops a jump hook. He probably can’t defend Howard, but not many men can, alone. That’s why we have bench bigs to give fouls. Al and JS at the forwards and center by committee against Howard. Run him till he sweats Kryptonite; foul him till he bleeds.
The Truth
October 4th, 2010
4:17 pm
Wordsmithtom
“What are your druthers? Fair question”
This is really not about my druthers, this is about Al’s. Hypothetically speaking, I would drathers Al plays where he’s the most comfortable. His public statements on the heels of an extension is no coincidence in this regard IMO.
GT Alum
October 4th, 2010
4:19 pm
drmaryb (*_*)
If you mean it’s never been a question who the Hawks consider the more essential piece, it’s never been a question to fans. Players seem to be too personally involved to pick up on those things a lot of times, though. Kinda like how Derek Lowe couldn’t understand why the Braves were trying to trade him lay winter, even though it was obvious to most fans.
Astro Joe
October 4th, 2010
4:50 pm
GT Alum, good point. I thought it was laughable that Lowe was confused by the trade talk… I guess dude didn’t look at his game log from the 2009 season.
Jo Jo, Josh signed an offer sheet with Memphis… if Al signs a bigger deal with the Hawks, he shouldn’t be upset, since he accepted the Memphis terms. Not to mention that Al is signing his contract after an All-Star appearance… bottom line, Al’s resume is far better than Smith’s was at the time of his deal.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
5:01 pm
5 on 5!
OK Grand-Daddy and wordsmithtom and others have all said:
It’s just Basketball in Motion!
Dudes on the playground just pick the best 5 players and
leave off the scrubs – right?
Terry Cummings
Charles Oakley
Rodman
Barkley
Jerome Kearse
Curry
Adrian Dantley
Craig Hodges
AC Green
James Worthy
Except for the PG’s, I have no idea who played what position?
Bangers and Rebounders! Every one on the floored played
hard and played defense.
O'Brien
October 4th, 2010
5:32 pm
KevinM,
I agree about the imbalance. We have 4 natural SGs on our roster (JJ, JC1, JC2 and Mo Evans). But no backup SF, and ours PGs are a second year PG with little experience and an over the hill vet.
Hopefully LD’s system will help nullify our roster shortcomings.
NBA Rumors: Hawks Looking to Extend Al Horford – Bleacher Report | Basketball Video Zone
October 4th, 2010
5:50 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
JoJo the Godfather
October 4th, 2010
6:54 pm
Anybody see Hollinger’s player ratings for this year’s Hawks players? Complimentary of Josh, Joe & Al, not so much for everyone else. Describes both Bibby & Jamal as “defensive liabilities with a capital L”.
As a reminder, Hollinger also has us at 46-36, and 6th in the east.
jason
October 4th, 2010
6:56 pm
if we do deal jaml at the deadline we should get teyshaun prince who can most definently help on offense and defense.
JoJo the Godfather
October 4th, 2010
6:57 pm
Nevermind the Bibby & Jamal quote…just realized he put Bibby’s analysis down for Jamal as well…Not that he is far off from the truth.
Fundamentals
October 4th, 2010
6:57 pm
Steel,
What’s more exciting in the highlight – Smoove’s dunk or Twin looking like a single running the break, dishing it and smiling the whole time. Dude looks good! Seems LD has inspired at least one player to change.
Proud of the good things I’m seeing from LD’s camp. Looking forward to the season!
Fundamentals
October 4th, 2010
7:08 pm
Looking at the second clip Bibby seemed a bit more light on his feet. Running, cutting, involved in the flow. Maybe it’s just a few selected clips, but I think LD can get the most out of this roster if they’ll unite. We all know the holes in the roster, we all know the contract issues. Real question is will they all buy in and maximize their talents? If they do we win and both in question get paid!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
7:24 pm
Mike is Back!
Yeah … DLed is somewhat tolerable.
Until, someone says the “V” word – then all he’ll breaks loose.
The conversation quickly degrades itself to – Hootin’ & Hollerin’
if you know what I mean – wink! wink!
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
7:40 pm
GT Alum
I mean it’s pretty obvious who the Hawks and Fans Love.
Horford -vs- Jamal.
Horford hands down!
He battles the Big Men night in and night out!
He’s an All – star, with tremendous upside and youth.
The class act and tri-capitan … etc.
MsDee
October 4th, 2010
8:05 pm
Really liked what I saw in Teague and his shooting even though he made one obvious TO but who doesnt make TO’s in this league..also liked the ball movement and Bibby’s movement, he definitely looked lighter on his feet..Oh and #55 looked good as well!!
Mike is back
October 4th, 2010
8:48 pm
Drmaryb, I hear ya on MV…kinda LIKE mentioning Marvin…over hear. lol
Fundamentals
October 4th, 2010
9:18 pm
# 55 is our draft pick Jordan Crawford
Samuel
October 4th, 2010
9:28 pm
drmaryb (*_*)
October 4th, 2010
7:40 pm
GT Alum
I mean it’s pretty obvious who the Hawks and Fans Love.
Horford -vs- Jamal.
Horford hands down!
According to Who? I wouldn’t say that. They are pretty much even as far as production. I’ll take Josh. He is a bigger difference maker than Horford. He can change a game on defense and with his athleticism. Horford basically made the allStar team by defalt. Josh was #3 in blocks and #11 in steals among the entire league while the highest ranking Al earned was #8 in FG% and #10 in rebounding.
Josh puts more people in the stands which is not a bad thing either.
Sautee
October 4th, 2010
9:48 pm
errrr, Samuel,
Mayhap you should read drmaryb’s post just one more time.
Hint: Jamal, not Josh
SteveW
October 4th, 2010
9:50 pm
Teague is a jump shooter – shot over 44% from college three point land. I’m not worried about his offense. I’m concerned about his decision making as a PG. The guy is a gifted, natural scorer. He just didn’t have the opportunity to really show it last year (except that last game).
And if Jamal is out with a bad back, is this any more incentive to sign him? Just wondering…
I just don’t see any realistic way we re-sign Jamal unless a trade opened up some cash (say Bibby’s money going somewhere else or something). The money is just not available according to what ASG is willing to spend.
SteveW
October 4th, 2010
10:04 pm
I know many times pieces on a basketball court are interchangeable. 2/3 spots are often known as just “wings”. Sometimes you have guys, like Jamal, just listed as “G”, because he can play 1 or 2. JJ starts at 2, plays some 3. Same with Josh, starts at 4, can play some 3. But in the NBA, the 5 spot is many times totally different. There are 7-1 320 lb beasts in the 5 spot sometimes. A “smallish” 6-9, 6-10 guy just can’t handle these beasts. Pau Gasol is a legit 7-3 according to reports. Yao 7-5. Even Lopez and Haywood over 7-0 ft. Howard is only 6-10/11 or so, but what a freak of nature! So yes, some parts are interchangeable. And most times in HS ball, and even some in college, you can get away with not having some physicality on a consistent basis in the low post. But not in the best B’ball league on the planet. The NBA will exploit you. Maybe not every night, but on some nights. And yes, Al can rise to the occasion, but it doesn’t come naturally, and it does take a toll. And I would say, it probably increases the injury risk.
It is much easier to ask a smallish 4, say 6-8 240 to take on a large 4, say 6-9 270, than to ask a 6-9/10 245 5 to take on guys 20 – 60 lbs heavier on a near nightly basis. I’m with Al on this one. And whoever said Al wouldn’t be a dominate 4 in the NBA is watching a different game than I am.
And all that being said – we still have 2 of the top 18 rebounders in the NBA on the squad. And yes, I still would rather have 2 top 10 PF’s than not. But interior body on body D is a weakness we have. ZaZa can solve the problem if he will, but his game many times is too European – until the playoffs and he goes beserk!
SteveW
October 4th, 2010
10:05 pm
And 1 last comment for now – If Etan Thomas is fully healed, he may be the wild card this team needs. Yes, he’s smallish 6-9 – but he is a beast.
darrell starks
October 4th, 2010
10:13 pm
You guys are killing me with this etan thomas, and josh powel thing, not in one way did this organzation improve this team, the only positive thing will be among the hawks will be jeaf teague improvement other than that a big disaster in my opinion.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 4th, 2010
10:14 pm
ASG ARE FAILURE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
October 4th, 2010
10:19 pm
1.HEAT
2.MAGIC
3.CELTICS
4.BULLS
5.BUCKS
6.SIXERS
7.HAWKS
8.BOBCATS OR WIZARDS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
truthspitter
October 4th, 2010
10:27 pm
Good to see Teague can make a jumper in practice atleast. That’s the only truly positive I saw from the clips. On the other hand, he makes some dumb decisions because he is not a true PG and did not play that position extensively in college.
Grandad
October 4th, 2010
10:55 pm
wordsmithtom
“Let the coach figure out the matchups and let the players play.
If they’re basketball players, they don’t need labels.”
Thanks – wordsmithtom, If we keep preachin’ maybe it will sink in.
cp
October 4th, 2010
10:56 pm
Looks like Teague has really worked on that jumper. I like his ability to drive and kick the ball to the shooters. I think he will be fine although some on here will continue to bitch and moan about him.
SteveW
October 4th, 2010
10:57 pm
Darrell Starks – With Jrue, Evan, Iggy, and Lou, I might would agree with you on the Sixers. But they don’t have much on the inside do they? I like Speights and Hawes – Brand is probably gone physically/mentally , but just not much else there.
SteveW
October 4th, 2010
10:59 pm
We didn’t have many injuries last year; difficult to get hurt standing around in Iso-Joe/Jamal. The motion O, which I like, may cause a few more nicks, strains and bruises.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
October 4th, 2010
11:09 pm
darrell starks
even with the Boozer injury, do you still think the bulls will finish ahead of the hawks?
Grandad
October 4th, 2010
11:15 pm
northcyde
“Grandad, you still don’t understand.”
“This is about what Horford likes and dislikes, not us.”
What do I not understand?
I read people’s comments, and sometimes I respond to those comments.
[on this blog]
Al is quoted in the [print] media, I read the same thing as you.
I was not there for the interview and therefore was not privy to
the context. (Perhaps you were)
Al is entitled to his preferences.
Al is a good teammate and as far as I can tell he and Josh work
and play well together. [they get along]
LD will do what is best for the team. [stategically]
Sund sit on his hands all day & wonders why he can’t twiddle his thumbs? [no true [5] on the team] *(Championship caliber)
Now, tell me again what is it that I don’t understand?
truthspitter
October 4th, 2010
11:22 pm
Sixers will not see the playoffs. They have nothing to challenge anyway on the interior offensively or defensively.
It goes
1 Heat
2 Magic
3 Celtics
4 Bulls
5 Hawks
6 Bucks
7 Knicks
8 Wizards
darrell starks
October 4th, 2010
11:25 pm
ASG FAILURE WITH SUND.
1.TRADE BACK FROM 24 TO 26,31
2.TRADE 31 FOR 3MILL WHERE IS THE MONEY
3.3 FIRST ROUND PICK NOT ONE BIGMAN OVER 6′8 DRAFTED
4.TRADED A STARTER IN CHILL FOR AND SECOND ROUND
5.MADE NO EFFORT 2 SIGN SHAQ
6.COULD HAVE SIGN AVERY BUT WANT 2 GO CHEAP
7.COULD HAVE CALL ME FOR ADVISE BUT MADE NO EFFORT
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Melvin
October 4th, 2010
11:28 pm
This year Celtics team will be a traveling Circus. And this is after they waive Rasheed…
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh576zG2EnjDBP9g2m
darrell starks
October 4th, 2010
11:28 pm
THIS WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN 2010 HAWKS WITH AVERY COACHING.
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, CHILL, JOSH, HORFORD.
BENCH JAMAL, MOE, MARVIN, ZAZA, SHAQ
RESERVE BIBBY, JAMAL 2
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Jamal Crawford hoping for new deal with Hawks – The Associated Press | Basketball Video Zone
October 4th, 2010
11:28 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
bigdave
October 4th, 2010
11:31 pm
“New Hawks add ‘physicality’ ” article went with the fruitiest of photos to showcase our new “tough guy” bigs.. smh.
Melvin
October 4th, 2010
11:42 pm
Hmmm, pretty fair analysis by Hoopsworld..
http://www.hoopsworld.com/teams/Rankings.asp
Hmmm
October 4th, 2010
11:51 pm
YES!
NEW SCRIMMAGE FOORTAGE! PEEP THA VID!
http://www.nba.com/hawks/video/2010/10/04/OCT4SCRIMHIGHLIGHTS-1431333/index.html
Hmmm
October 5th, 2010
12:04 am
CBS INTERVIEW WITH LARRY DREW.
THAT REPORTER IS HOT!
Hmmm
October 5th, 2010
12:05 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_JOEzxiskE&feature=player_embedded#!
EN FUEGO!
Samuel
October 5th, 2010
12:21 am
In order for us to get to the next level, either Josh or Al will have to be traded for a “legitimate” center. Sure we can keep both but that would minimize both their effectiveness. Josh has proven time and time again that he cannot play the 3 position on offense or defense and Al keeps telling us that he want’s to be moved to the four. He doesn’t want to be seen as a guy who rocks the boat so he hasn’t really demanded it, “yet”. Sure, he likes Atlanta but he can see the handwriting on the wall as far as his maximum potential as a pro. He’ll always be the 3rd or 4th Best center in the East behind Howard, Lopez and a healthy Bogat. At PF he’s next in line after KG.
Again, I personally would keep Josh but I would be just content with Al. Otherwise, we will make the playoffs but we will never move past the second round and please don’t give me the Detroit analogy and Big Ben. the steroid era is over.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 5th, 2010
1:21 am
Did I really see Jason Collins leading a fast break and dishing to Josh for a dunk? Is it 2012 already?
cheeseburgerless collins
October 5th, 2010
2:03 am
Pay Al!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our best player
jason
October 5th, 2010
8:14 am
@najeh
lol
O'Brien
October 5th, 2010
8:18 am
Samuel,
The problem is nobody is trading a legitimate center (especially if that center is better than horford, or almost as good as horford). So its very difficult for the hawks to get one.
Howard, bogut, Lopez, Noah, perkins, bynum are not going anywhere, and the hawks pick low in the draft, and we don’t have the money to sign one.
And the fact is horford is one of the best centers in the league, so him and Josh will just have to be tougher, rebound better and defend the post better.
JoJo the Godfather
October 5th, 2010
10:49 am
I don’t see us trading for a legitimate center either…I would however like to see us at least try to develop a young center…Za Za “is what he is” and can only improve through effort…Trading for a young unproven center like Ajinca in Dallas might be a waste of money & picks, but it would probably go a long way with the fans…For a team that needs a 1 & 5, trying to develop Sy & Ajinca through practice & d-league games at least gives the preception that an effort is being made.
Fresh
October 5th, 2010
12:17 pm
Melvin,
Thanks for the link. I think those preseason power rankings are pretty much spot on!
Fresh
October 5th, 2010
12:21 pm
Good article about the Jamal Crawford situation on SI.com.
Crawford:
“I love being here. I LOVE being here. I had a ball every time. I felt like I was at a concert performing every time I played here. It was just a lot of fun.”
Sund:
“The organization the last few years has done an outstanding job to retain players who have become free agents, and a lot of that is because the players have wanted to remain here and we’ve been financially competitive with the other teams,” Sund said.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/basketball/nba/10/04/hawks.crawford.ap/index.html#ixzz11VBfOhYT
Hmmm
October 5th, 2010
1:10 pm
LOL @ Suns fans trying to work us over and steal all of our good players. Rondo, Lopez(Picks), Diaw, Childress, and now Josh smith! Ha. All we’ve ever gotten from them is a 2nd rd. Pick. smh
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2010/7/17/1574392/lets-make-a-dream-err-deal-josh
It’s fun hearing them speculate about our team though. Nice to hear other teams opinions.
Hmmm
October 5th, 2010
1:37 pm
LOL They’re at it again.
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2010/8/25/1649527/josh-smith
They really like J-Smoove hahaha.
dap01
October 5th, 2010
1:39 pm
It is so wonderful to have a coach that can actually pretend to have a clue about professional basketball players. Drew has a plan, it may be difficult to get results but at least his knows more than ISO, Switching and demeaning players.
SteveW
October 5th, 2010
1:50 pm
JoJo – It was reported that in our war room on draft day, we really like Daniel Orton of Kentucky. He went 29th to the Magic. It would have been interesting to see if we would have still sold our 31st pick if he would have still been on the board. We can say we would have all day long, but we still don’t know. He would have been a good kid to develop. Like these 2 young C’s for the Sixers, Javale from the Wizards also – don’t know if we could pry any of them away. Ajinca may be a dud – but you might be correct about the fan base. I know I enjoyed Solomon Jones, just because he was “developing”, young, athletic and exciting. I guess it goes back to hope springs eternal or something.
And RandMo’s stats from last year were ok for the limited minutes, if you factor them out – but his Summer League was awful. Maybe he already thought he had a spot on the team or something, but he looked really bad.
doc
October 5th, 2010
1:57 pm
hmm, that guy is so trade happy you got to wonder if it is grand dad in disguise.
doc
October 5th, 2010
2:00 pm
only legit center moved this year was jefferson. i asked early on, the day after elimination, would anyone give up jsh to get him. there were few if any takers. you dont get without giving up in this league unless you are accepting payroll. as all are aware that is not modis operandi around here. so give up on the bs of getting a center by trade.
drmaryb (*_*)
October 5th, 2010
6:41 pm
Back that Thang Up!
Sautee … He got my back –
Like a Bobby Knight tight red sweater!
Now You Know!
See Samuel ….
-smiles-
drmaryb (*_*)
October 5th, 2010
6:52 pm
……………….. Waiting in Anticipation …………..
What else is there to say?
The Truth
October 6th, 2010
5:54 pm
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/dwight-howard-seeks-to-expand-his-post-game-learns-from-the-best.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
The Truth
October 6th, 2010
7:14 pm
Comparison and Contrast:
While Al Horford was busy filling up his summer with the NBA without Borders, going to Singapore, and also doing his (noteworthy) All-Star Basketball Camp here in Atlanta, his nemesis Dwight Howard was being trained by the HOF Great-Center Hakeem Olajuwon. So, as Al’s maturation continues with the Hawks, so does Howard’s with the Magic.
Sh4d0w5
October 7th, 2010
6:28 am
Nice blog!
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