Atlanta Hawks: With start of new season near, end to ‘10 still burns
Hawks say they remember what this felt like.
For the first part of this summer, everywhere Marvin went he got different variations of the same question.
What the heck happened to the Hawks in that series against the Magic?
“Early in the summer [he heard it] but, after a while, people started to get ready for football season, thankfully,” Marvin said today after informal workouts at Philips. “But, God, the first month, month-and-a-half, it was: ‘Yo, what happened?’ Dude, you were watching the games. You tell me what happened?”
The Magic beat down the Hawks in historical fashion, everybody saw it, and Hawks players know their reps took a major hit. After finishing third in the East and openly talking about a championship run, the Hawks folded in the face of adversity and eventually earned the wrath of their own fans.
True competitors with any sense of pride are not going to go out like that. Each time I’ve talked to L.D. he’s made it a point to say he believes the way last season ended will have a bearing on how players approach this season.
“We pretty much got embarrassed in the second round,” J.J. said the other day. “I am sure it won’t happen again.”
There are Hawks with lots to prove individually this season. Can Marvin be consistent? Can J.J. share the ball, deliver a strong postseason and live up to his contract? Will Smoove continue to mature? Can Teague take over the point? Can L.D. bring it all together?
But after what happened against the Magic, the Hawks have a lot to prove as a group, too. Critics, some of them internal, accused the Hawks of quitting. The lasting memory for the Hawks in 2009-10 wasn’t 53 Ws, 34-7 at home or No. 3 in the East, but how those significant accomplishments nearly faded into irrelevance after they meekly succumbed to the Magic.
“Honestly, me personally, it definitely doesn’t sit well with me,” J.J. said. “Coming into the season, I still think about that. I’m going to do whatever it takes to get over that hump. It did leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think it’s something we can bounce back from. We just have to be confident.”
With no major personnel additions this summer the Hawks are largely counting on improvement from the same group. There is plenty of external skepticism about whether that will be enough to put them over the top, and surely a lot of that is due to how last season ended.
“To lose the way you lose, it kind of sits in my stomach,” Marvin said. “To come out and play the way we played against Orlando—we lost by 20, 25 a night! We are better than that, man. I think the world knows we are better than that.
“Take nothing from Orlando, they are a great team. But the Atlanta Hawks are better than [losing by] 20 or 25 a night. That just kind of sits in your stomach all summer. I think guys look back at those last two [losing] playoff series, and we want to get better. So we’ve got to try to build. ”
Quick hits
– I don’t think the Hawks are hot to add a fifth center (and a 15th guaranteed contract) after re-signing Twin and getting Etan Thomas. So while the Hawks have talked to Erick Dampier’s rep it doesn’t look like he’s going to end up in Atlanta.
– Word is Jamal Crawford opted not to come to town early for his pre-camp physicals. All indications are that Crawford will report Monday as required. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about his contract situation on media day.
– I’m told Jordan Crawford has stood out during the informal runs at Philips. I caught the tail end of today’s session, where JC2 showed why he’s considered a natural scorer. Guys like that flourish in games like that. He’s not shy about pulling up for long jumpers, though I’m sure that instinct will be tempered once things get serious.
– In addition to Marvin and JC2, Bibby, Teague and Josh Powell also were at today’s run. So were free agent vets Stackhouse and Anthony Johnson.
Follow me on Twitter @ajchawks.
MC
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509 comments Add your comment
vava74
September 24th, 2010
9:59 am
BTW,
Great post Wally Walker!
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
10:00 am
I do agree with what Northcyde and Grandad had to say about the Heat, and what Northcyde had to say about the Hawks, except I don’t see a way that 2 superfriends will be in the game together 3/4 of the time. I think they’ll only average playing 3/4’s of the time (36 mpg), so it’ll probably be a little less than that.
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
10:02 am
And when the Heat get up by 20, which I expect them to do alot, I wouldn’t be surprised if the sit all 3, and let say 12 be the firewall. When the other team gets within 12, we put 1-3 of the superfriends back in. Here’s hoping Dampier goes to Denver btw!
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
10:03 am
“The” should be “they” in the last post – sorry
Mz. Hawkdafied
September 24th, 2010
10:04 am
Training Camp and Media Day signify the beginning of the new season. So looking forward to next week. Not looking back at what happened back then.
Moving on, go Hawks!
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
10:15 am
Had no idea the Hawks were still in the running for Dampier. We do have the TPE and any portion of the MLE we want to use. Been reading the latest on google search, and it says its down to the Nuggets, Heat, Rockets, and Hawks. We have 1.423m left before luxury tax. Which means lets say we offered him 2 years at 2.2m per, we would have to pay $777,000.00 in luxury tax this year. Besides what Dampier would bring to the team with inside toughness, I almost think the Hawks willingness to go into luxury tax to keep a division rival from getting better, and helping our team – wow, that would speak volumes for ASG’s commitment to the team and the fans of the city of ATL. Not even Reisendorf in Chitown goes into luxury tax.
Melvin
September 24th, 2010
10:27 am
SteveW,
The only problem I see with your 10:15am post is that you ignore the fact that the Hawks would not receive any luxury tax pay outs for being under the luxury tax. That’s probably around 5-10 mil depending on the final tax monies paid into the pool at the end of the season. Being that the ASG are frugal spenders, i doubt if they would want to miss out on those pay outs.
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
11:20 am
Melvin, you could very well be right. You know however, luxury tax is based on what you have on your roster on the last day of the regular season. I wonder if Jamal wants out, we may trade him for slightly less money on the incoming contract to offset that. I do know that Sund is a shrewd business man – Got Jamal for nothing basically, got 3m on draft day, and still kept a decent 1st pick – only moved down 3 spots, and according to Pendergraft (I believe it was) we still had 3 guys on our board we liked – Dominique Jones (Mavs 25th), Jordan Crawford (Hawks 27th), and Daniel Orton (Magic 29th). I wonder if we would have sold that 31st pick if Orton would have still been available btw?? Will be interesting to see if we sign him. Can’t believe at last report the Heat are only offering Dampier a 1 year vet min. contract. Maybe he wants to win a championship with them, and sign for a little more money the next year with somebody else? No telling, just speculating.
Thanks for the input Melvin!
dap01
September 24th, 2010
11:52 am
We sold a pick for $3,000,000, we have not used that $3M. We traded Childress for sometype of exemption, we have not used it.
Therefore, one of two things is happening. Either the Hawks are still planning other moves or we are being lied to and are being shortchanged by owners who strive to do the minimum.
ryan
September 24th, 2010
12:50 pm
I think teams that after Mello and other top free agents will wait until next summer now maybe the Hawks will make some trades to under the cap only time will tell .
vava74
September 24th, 2010
12:56 pm
I don’t think Orton will be more than a 5ppg 5rpg career bench guy at best which is something we can always get at minimum wage and without too much hassle.
so I am not to unhappy about the 3 million trade.
there are not too many cases of players taken late in the draft who end up being successful and that number is even lower when we talk about bigs.
heck, the success rate when drafting bigs is low even in the lottery picks.
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
1:09 pm
Vava74 – I agree with most of what you said. The Hawks evidently saw something in Orton they liked, as did Orlando. Actually with Howard and Gortat, I thought Orlando may have wasted that pick so we wouldn’t draft him. Orlando’s “mortal fear” in my opinion is ATL getting a quality big, or even an average big who can 1 on 1 defend Dwight and a quality PG. I’m going to go out on a limb, and say ATL has the quality G in Teague. I just hope Teague is more PG than Jason Terry. I still thought we were stupid for trading JT, I really liked him – just as a fan’s perspective. It’s like we finally got a draft pick right, and we trade him because he’s not a true PG like we wanted.
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
1:14 pm
I think the Hawks signing Etan and Collins show we are still concerned with inside defense. Etan could very well turn out to be a key to this season, if he stays healthy. And I can definitely see him becoming a crowd favorite – long locks, lots of hustle, take no prisoners attitude.
ryan
September 24th, 2010
1:17 pm
I have bad news Devin Harris may be on his way to the Bobcats Denver and New Jersey are discussing a 4 team trade involving Mello to the Nets .
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
1:22 pm
Wally Walker – thanks – what a great ball player.
Vava74 – Great documentary on Dominique! He is a very erudite gentleman. I still remember seeing him play in college against UTChattanooga in the Omni. And how shocked we were we got him on draft day. I liked Lenny Wilkens, and he may have been the best coach we’ve ever had (sorry Hubie and Fratello) but I hated when we traded ‘Nique. And yes, that Boston game 7 should have sealed the fact that ‘Nique was one of the 50 best of all time. People forget he developed a dead on outside J in his career.
Remember how the Hawks wouldn’t add anybody from 2nd round loss playoff teams in the 80’s, and we were supposed to believe that ‘Nique developing his left hand over the summer was supposed to get us over the hump to a championship? Lot’s of similarities between those teams and this. We had a young core – Wilkens, Levingston, Carr, Rivers, Webb, Willis, Wittman etc. and we were just supposed to grow from there.
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
1:23 pm
We should be when in last post
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
1:25 pm
Ryan, that’s not such bad news. But it would be 1 more great player in the East from last season – Boozer, Amare, and now maybe ‘Melo. The East is certainly rising.
Rev in Tampa
September 24th, 2010
1:28 pm
My all time favorite Hawk is Tree Rollins.
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
1:29 pm
Grandad – I didn’t know this, but the Nuggets may waive Billups at the end of the season according to ESPN. The only have to pay 3.7m of his 14.2m contract if he’s waived after this year, which they may do to begin rebuilding. Would you be up to signing Billups for a couple of years, even at the end of his career? i would.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
1:32 pm
ryan
Give the Nets GM a “C” for Creativity.
A four way trade allows them to keep Favors and Lopez in the fold.
I would trade Teague in a four-way to get Melo.
But, not Smoove, Al or JJ. But, who would Denver get back
I wonder? And, who are the other 2 teams involved.
Anyway, if Sund were creative? We could throw our hat in the
ring too.
ryan
September 24th, 2010
2:09 pm
You have to be some what worried about Harris as a Bobcat when he is healthy he one the best point guards out there and he being coached by Larry Brown who knows a thing or to about PGs if this trade goes through .Oh and forget Bobcats are a playoff team .
rusty
September 24th, 2010
2:12 pm
when i came to atlanta in 82 after being a rapid knick fan since 58 i thought i would never love a team like i did the knicks., but i did thanks to nique. i never seen a basketball player who had his overall talent,but what made him so great was his tremendous love for the game. he played with such energy & passion it was unbeliveable . any one who thought he was just a gunner didnt know his game. we were blessed to have him here. he gave a 1000% to the game & his team mates. i love nique.
Grandad
September 24th, 2010
2:15 pm
SteveW
With a resounding ~Yes Sir~!
*[on Chauncey]*
The Truth
September 24th, 2010
2:48 pm
Hopefully a sigh of relief; anybody but the Heat or Magic
“A source close to the process says it now appears that Erick Dampier is moving away from the Heat and toward another suitor. Stay tuned.”
http://twitter.com/IraHeatBeat
truthspitter
September 24th, 2010
3:31 pm
Originally posted by Obrien
We have a good idea of what we will get from Josh, Al, Jamal and JJ, although they can still raise their games. But the biggest impact will be determined by Marvin, PG play, and defense.
If Marvin can knock down the open shots more consistently, play even better defense, and improve his rebounding, this team will be that much better.
Obrien: No disrespect but if you are still counting on Marvin in any sense you are stupid, bottomline. This deep in his career and people admit that you don’t know what you are going to get from him but you still have some hope. How stupid does that sound? Sounds like you are waiting on the messiah or something. That’s just stupid bottomline. Get rid of his bad contract.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
3:50 pm
Man Crush!
Na na na na – nah!
rusty has a man crush!
rof – lol!
rusty, I moved here in ‘86 and Never watched any sports
on TV except Tennis!
“Tennis is my Racket” is what my license plate frame said
since I bought my first car at age 14. I played for the
College of Charleston on a four year scholarship and had
aspirations of being a Pro! But, with severe spinal defects,
I became a Chiropractor instead. My equal passion and dream!
But, when I saw Nique and Jordan play?
I fell in Love with Basketball!
So, yes, I feel your Love and have personally met and have
had dinner with Nique and his first wife in the past.
Well, I actually sat at the table nexþ to theirs in the same
Decatur, GA restaurant one night. We exchanged niceties at
best. Ha Ha!
He was the consumate Nice Guy! A real class act! He and his wife.
I owe my Love for Basketball to Nique!
Thanks for sharing that with us.
I thought you were a teenager on here.
Sorry, for the past blog battles!
But, hey … I fight Dirty! Ha Ha!
Rev in Tampa
September 24th, 2010
3:52 pm
Marvin “The Team-Glue” Williams
Rev in Tampa
September 24th, 2010
3:55 pm
drmaryb, your posts have brightened my day.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
3:55 pm
Sign Me Up!
Grand-Daddy said this to SteveW:
SteveW
“With a resounding ~Yes Sir~!
*[on Chauncey]*”
I got 5ive on it!
Like I said last nite/this morning: patience is a virtue on all
these guys! Wait till the off-season.
Make them “Nubby Little Fingers wait to sign them dotted lines!”
Give them a reason to play harder this next season!
They only show up when they want something anyways!
Never let them see you Sweat! Never That!
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
4:09 pm
Truth – Co-sign
Rev – Hilarious! i loved him to – but not my all time fav
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
4:37 pm
Nuggets to get Kirilenko, Favors and maybe a couple of 1st picks for ‘Melo if this deal goes down between the Jazz, Bobcats, Nuggets, and Nets. No wonder Dampier may want to sign with the Nuggets. That’s a good deal in my opinion for the Nuggets. Bobcats giving up Diaw for Devin Harris? I’m missing something there. I think I like Diaw too much or something, or I’ve missed Devin Harris good games last year – something. Maybe Devin is better than I think.
Ken Strickland
September 24th, 2010
4:37 pm
GEEMACK-With Miami’s numerous additions, especially to their starting lineup, they will definitely be presented with some serious and numerous chemistry and adjustment issues. It won’t be as easy as some of you seem to think trying to merge 3 ego’s, 1 of them massive, into a cohesive unit. Trying to get 2 ball hogging players that have been accustomed to dominating their respective teams throughout their careers on every level to mesh, won’t be easy either.
After the starting team has been selected, especially the starting C, can anyone really say there won’t be any ill feelings among any of those who will be relegated to backup duties @ C? I still find it absolutely amazing how some of our fans can seem to foresee so many potential internal issues that could derail the Hawks, or be a problem for Hawk players to overcome, but can’t envision how the Heat and its players will have any difficulty overcoming any of the many problems they’ll certainly have to deal with. The same goes for the Bulls as well.
Tim
September 24th, 2010
4:37 pm
The Hawks are ranked 10th in preseason rankings. What does it mean?
http://dealingdominiquewilkins.blogspot.com/
Jae Evolution
September 24th, 2010
4:37 pm
When does training camp start?
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
4:49 pm
I mean Devin Harris put up some decent stats – but Shooting % of 40.3, 3 P shooting % of 26.7. That’s some poor #’s right there. It just seems like he’s regressing from early in his career.And Diaw just seems solid – 48.3% shooting, over 5 boards and 4 Asst. per game. Just solid.
But we signed Pape Sy to atone for trading Boris away – the French will like us again.
HoosierHawk
September 24th, 2010
4:56 pm
I don’t believe the 4 team trade rumor, because why would Carmello go to NJ if they traded Favirs and harris? Theyd still be weak in my opinion. Nonetheless, I have dreamt this up:
NJ gets Carmello
Atlanta gets Devin harris
Denver gets Crawford, Teague, Favors, Quinton Ross
Works on trade machine. Only denver is screwed, but they get high upside and cap relief when crawford expires.
I know we haven’t seen Teagues’s potential, and giving him and crawford might be a little much. But I’d rather see a solid but still not old vet at PG than an unproven sophmore and over the hill bibby.
Plus we have young guards. We have Jo crawford and Saye. Plus Mo can play the 2. I’d do it……
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
4:57 pm
Tim – we’re 14th in those rankings – the Bucks are 10th, the Bulls 5th, Magic 4th, Celts 3rd, and Heat 2nd. Notice we are ranked 6th in the East now – and 3rd in our division. But they don’t play the season on paper, but on the court – so we’ll see.
Also notice we have to play 2 of the top 4 teams 8x this season. We’ll be doing good to go 1-7 in those matchups – but again, who knows? We may sweep them….
KenS – Here’s hoping your correct in your assesment of the the Heat and Bulls. We shall see. I think Boozer getting injured is more of a chance in Chicago.
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
5:00 pm
HoosierHawk – I wouldn’t – as you said, that’s and awful lot to give up for Devin Harris. Now if they would take Bibby, I’d think about it. I’m not sure I would trade Crawford for Devin straight up.
Tim
September 24th, 2010
5:01 pm
Camp starts Monday
Grandad
September 24th, 2010
5:02 pm
truthspitter: @ O’Brien
“*[No disrespect] but if you are still counting on Marvin in any sense
*[you are stupid], bottomline”
truthspitter, you sir are an “oxymoron”.
Tim
September 24th, 2010
5:03 pm
Steve. Thanks. I looked at the wrong number. Change made on the blog.
Ken Strickland
September 24th, 2010
5:07 pm
Enter your comments here
Grandad
September 24th, 2010
5:09 pm
HoosierHawk @ 4:56 pm
You took Utah out of the equation
+
all tghe draft picks!
Grandad
September 24th, 2010
5:13 pm
In the …..^…..above…..^…..scenario:
Diaw would/will flourish in Utah + J.Sloan’s system.
The Truth
September 24th, 2010
5:29 pm
This is called an unintended player’s bait and switch routine:
“Dampier issue with Heat not necessarily what he wants, but also Heat commitment, financially and otherwise, to Anthony, Z, Magloire, Pittman”
http://twitter.com/IraHeatBeat
The Truth
September 24th, 2010
5:36 pm
Does anyone have Sund phone number? Here’s any opportunity to move Bibby in a 5-way deal.
“In terms of nearness to getting done, I’m told by sources Melo to NJ in 4-way is 6.5 on a scale of 1-10. NJ would like to get a PG in deal”
http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard
Ramon
September 24th, 2010
5:37 pm
Truth wouldn’t that mean Atlanta likely wouldn’t be his choice either, because we have 4 centers on the roster as well.
The Truth
September 24th, 2010
5:42 pm
Ramon
Yeah that would seem logical. I’m thinking he is re-visiting the Denver offer or maybe Houston
MsDee
September 24th, 2010
5:54 pm
Grandad,
I dido that on truthspitter!! Based on his STUPID comments on Marvin this WHOLE ENTIRE OFF SEASON, Im truely rootin for Marvin to break out!! Can’t wait to hear what he would to say on Marvin then!!
JoJo the Godfather
September 24th, 2010
5:57 pm
absolutely…jump in there and send bibby and 1st & 2nd round picks to new jersey for kris humphries & damion james.