Atlanta Hawks: With start of new season near, end to ‘10 still burns
Hawks say they remember what this felt like.
For the first part of this summer, everywhere Marvin went he got different variations of the same question.
What the heck happened to the Hawks in that series against the Magic?
“Early in the summer [he heard it] but, after a while, people started to get ready for football season, thankfully,” Marvin said today after informal workouts at Philips. “But, God, the first month, month-and-a-half, it was: ‘Yo, what happened?’ Dude, you were watching the games. You tell me what happened?”
The Magic beat down the Hawks in historical fashion, everybody saw it, and Hawks players know their reps took a major hit. After finishing third in the East and openly talking about a championship run, the Hawks folded in the face of adversity and eventually earned the wrath of their own fans.
True competitors with any sense of pride are not going to go out like that. Each time I’ve talked to L.D. he’s made it a point to say he believes the way last season ended will have a bearing on how players approach this season.
“We pretty much got embarrassed in the second round,” J.J. said the other day. “I am sure it won’t happen again.”
There are Hawks with lots to prove individually this season. Can Marvin be consistent? Can J.J. share the ball, deliver a strong postseason and live up to his contract? Will Smoove continue to mature? Can Teague take over the point? Can L.D. bring it all together?
But after what happened against the Magic, the Hawks have a lot to prove as a group, too. Critics, some of them internal, accused the Hawks of quitting. The lasting memory for the Hawks in 2009-10 wasn’t 53 Ws, 34-7 at home or No. 3 in the East, but how those significant accomplishments nearly faded into irrelevance after they meekly succumbed to the Magic.
“Honestly, me personally, it definitely doesn’t sit well with me,” J.J. said. “Coming into the season, I still think about that. I’m going to do whatever it takes to get over that hump. It did leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think it’s something we can bounce back from. We just have to be confident.”
With no major personnel additions this summer the Hawks are largely counting on improvement from the same group. There is plenty of external skepticism about whether that will be enough to put them over the top, and surely a lot of that is due to how last season ended.
“To lose the way you lose, it kind of sits in my stomach,” Marvin said. “To come out and play the way we played against Orlando—we lost by 20, 25 a night! We are better than that, man. I think the world knows we are better than that.
“Take nothing from Orlando, they are a great team. But the Atlanta Hawks are better than [losing by] 20 or 25 a night. That just kind of sits in your stomach all summer. I think guys look back at those last two [losing] playoff series, and we want to get better. So we’ve got to try to build. ”
Quick hits
– I don’t think the Hawks are hot to add a fifth center (and a 15th guaranteed contract) after re-signing Twin and getting Etan Thomas. So while the Hawks have talked to Erick Dampier’s rep it doesn’t look like he’s going to end up in Atlanta.
– Word is Jamal Crawford opted not to come to town early for his pre-camp physicals. All indications are that Crawford will report Monday as required. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about his contract situation on media day.
– I’m told Jordan Crawford has stood out during the informal runs at Philips. I caught the tail end of today’s session, where JC2 showed why he’s considered a natural scorer. Guys like that flourish in games like that. He’s not shy about pulling up for long jumpers, though I’m sure that instinct will be tempered once things get serious.
– In addition to Marvin and JC2, Bibby, Teague and Josh Powell also were at today’s run. So were free agent vets Stackhouse and Anthony Johnson.
Follow me on Twitter @ajchawks.
MC
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509 comments Add your comment
drmaryb (*_*)
September 23rd, 2010
6:04 pm
Astro Joe
I was thinking we could throw the whole team at Dwight.
Penetrating 1, 2 & 3’s. The 4 & 5. Just come in waves!
Johnny Dingo
September 23rd, 2010
6:56 pm
Truth be known, we have no clue how this team will shake out.
Last year, the 2 biggest glaring weaknesses were:
1. Defensing the PG
2. Interior Scoring
Getting rid of the laziness associated with switching every position, and committing to Bibby coming off the bench should bode well for not allowing EVERY PG to penetrate our lane. Why is Al untouchable? He was the #3 overall pick, and is nothing more than a Brian Grant clone. Now, Brian Grant was one hell of a glue guy, but come on. Al needs to get in the gym and make SOMEONE in the NBA respect his low-post game. His offense is a 12 footer and hustle. Now, I’ll take Al over JSmoove any day, but give me Carmelo, and I’ll be the first to show Al the door.
O'Brien
September 23rd, 2010
6:57 pm
It is being reported that if the Bulls include Noah in the deal, they would be the front runner for Carmelo.
If you’re the Bulls, would you include Noah in the trade?
Fundamentals
September 23rd, 2010
7:14 pm
Johnny Dingo? Who’s making up fake names today?
You don’t show your best draft pick that’s been the leader of your team the door for a kids who can’t get his team out of the 1st round with a “legit” center, a great PG, All Star Power forward and better surrounding cast b/c hello they spent like 20 million more a year.
Melo is overated. He would help this team, but I resoundingly say no to giving up Al or Smoove to get him.
Fundamentals
September 23rd, 2010
7:14 pm
Are All Star Centers harder to find than SF?
I’d keep Noah, they’ll reget it if they don’t.
Fundamentals
September 23rd, 2010
7:15 pm
Yes I realize Noah isn’t an All-Star before you chirp, but he was in the mix last Feb. He will be again for years to come.
ryan
September 23rd, 2010
7:34 pm
Mello looks to be staying in Denver at least till the trade deadline Knicks , Nets ,and Bulls look to be staying put .
SteveW
September 23rd, 2010
8:07 pm
Maybe Noah for ‘Melo straight up – but I wouldn’t be “including” Noah in a trade for ‘Melo. Maybe Noah and a couple of second round picks. That’s the limit.
Ramon
September 23rd, 2010
8:07 pm
Fundamentals, if I was the Bulls, and Melo agreed to a deal, I’d trade Noah for him in a heartbeat. If you have Rose, Brewer (who is underrated in my mind), Melo, and Boozer with Gibson and Korver (I think) on the bench, you’ll be able to do a lot for the next 3-4 seasons. Noah is a good player, but he can’t take you to the playoffs by himself. Melo can! If Melo was able to lead the Nuggets to the playoffs in the WEST for 7 years straight. Imagine what he could do in the East. MJ and Pippen had Luc Longley for a starting center. If I was the Bulls, I’d do that deal and then look to trade Gibson to GS for Biedrins (who are looking to trade him). Also if they traded Noah but kept Deng, they could possibly end up with a good center from trading Deng elsewhere.
Astro Joe
September 23rd, 2010
8:09 pm
OB, I wouldn’t give it more than 1 second of consideration. Not only would I NOT trade Noah, but I’m not even sure that trading Deng for Melo makes sense from a team fit stand point. I don’t see how Rose, Melo and Boozer can play effectively together… considering they each are iso type players. And if I’m Thibadeau, I certainly wouldn’t sign off on trading an active defensive center with 1st team all defense potential, for a scorer. When I look at the Bulls roster, I’m not concerned with their ability to score, so I don’t see what need Melo fills. Had they not signed Boozer a few months ago, I may feel differently.
Ramon
September 23rd, 2010
8:09 pm
By the way, now that Nelson is gone, I wonder if GS would want Crawford back, lol. Or how about Marvin and Mo for Biedrins?
SteveW
September 23rd, 2010
8:14 pm
How to beat the Heat if your the Hawks:
Start ZaZa instead of Smoove. Teach him a suplex. Tell him to use it on Bosh at the first opportunity. Now your only dealing with 2 Superfriends.
Tell Marvin he will be fined $1,000.00 each time LeBron is further than 6 inches away from him on Defense. Tell him LeBron’s air becomes his air tonite.
Well that’s about it for now – it’s a start. At least with that scenario we would get to see Magliore and Collins sumo wrestle awhile. And don’t think Pat Riley wouldn’t do this if the shoe was on the other foot. He is not above thugball to win a series.
Ramon
September 23rd, 2010
8:22 pm
SteveW, Bosh is not a better player than Smoove! Bosh can’t take it to Smoove like that.
O'Brien
September 23rd, 2010
8:24 pm
Talent wise, Melo is awesome. But AJ raises a good point. he would not fit. Rose needs the ball, Melo needs the ball, and Boozer needs the ball.
And if they trade Noah, the only good defensive player left is Brewer.
Ramon
September 23rd, 2010
8:25 pm
The problem is James. With their addition of Miller, they have the outside shooting that makes you pay if you double team when James and Wade drives. And then also Jones is good from the outside. But Bosh is not the problem.
Ramon
September 23rd, 2010
8:27 pm
O’Brien, after playing with Billups, Melo is accustomed to not playing with the ball in his hand. In fact Karl was the coach who instilled in Melo the importance of making a move soon as you get the ball, instead of dribble dribble dribble.
Melvin
September 23rd, 2010
9:35 pm
An old Hawks player popping back up on the NBA radar…
Jerry Zgoda: #Timberwolves bringing DeMarr Johnson, Maurice Ager, former Gopher John Thomas and former Wolf Jason Hart to camp to fill out roster
Grandad
September 23rd, 2010
9:48 pm
KevinM: Sorry, he slipped my mind, re-calculated below.
Super Fiends front line:
Big ‘Z’ = 35
*Dampier? = 35
Haslem = 30
Magloire = 32
(((total))) = 132 years old!
* ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ *
+ Bosh = 26
(((((total))))) = 158 years old!
Wally Walker
September 23rd, 2010
10:02 pm
Speaking of the Hawk’s John Drew, my brother was his bookkeeper/friend back in the mid eighties. NBA and the players’ Union screwed him big time. Here’s the story, John Drew had a big drug problem and was at the end of his career. When the NBA started the new League’s and Union approved drug policy. Mainly, a player would be banned for life if the failed two drug test. The big screw for John Drew was he failed a drug test before the new rule went into effect in 1984. Drew failed another drug test after the new rule in 1985, but the NBA wanted an example and the Union allowed Drew to be the sacrifical lamb to protect the new star players. Drew was unfairly banned from the league and the Union did not attempt to offer him any help. Two years later the tale gets worse for Drew, he had left Garner-Webb after two years in college without the ability to read and now with no means of financial support he falls into a abyss. While with the Hawks, my brother had successfully convinced the Hawks to defer 400k in salary to the years of 1992,93,94, & 95 100k per year in order to hopefully provide John with financial security. Unfortunately by 1988, John is completely destitute and a Crack Head. Also that year, the Hawks agreed to John’s wishes by cashing in his salary deferments for 40k or 10k a year. The Hawks should been a shame of theirselves, but business is business. The Hawks allowed the salary deferments to mature and cashed them. Fast forward to 2002 when John reaches the age of 45 which makes him eligible to receive his NBA pension of 85k a year for life. Unfortunately, my brother attempts numeral times to contact John, but to no avail. John is completely lost. The story ends well in 2008, John is found living under a bridge in Houston. My brother makes contact with him by miracle while getting taxicab in Houston; he somehow sees John. My brother tells him the Union has been looking him for years to save face. Drew gets his back pension and drug counseling. After completing a drug program, John begins driving a taxicab and telling people about his life story. At last account, he is doing well! Look for a movie about his life soon!!
Grandad
September 23rd, 2010
10:19 pm
Mary Ellen
After John Drew was traded to *Utah
(in the Nique trade) if I remember correctly?
He was still productive for another couple of years.
@ some point it was discovered he had a cocaine addiction.
He battled that ’til the end of his career;
at which time he received the 1st ever lifetime ban from the NBA.
He has been in & out of re-hab, however, it has been reported
that he has overcome his addiction.
[2 for John Drew] is accurate in that @ last report he was
a cab driver in Houston.
11 yrs, 21 pts per, career avg.
It’s a sad story, drugs diminished, derailed, undermined,
debilitated, cheapened, and eventually ended his career.
SteveW
September 23rd, 2010
10:24 pm
Ramon – I was not suggesting that Bosh is better than Smoove. I am a former coach, and have been trying to devise a way the Hawks can beat the Heat. So I developed a parody based on “brawl ball”, otherwise known as “basketbrawl”! And I still feel that if a suplex is in order, ZaZa can deliver it much more effectively than Smoove on Bosh.
Now would I trade Smoove for Bosh straight up? Yes. I think Bosh may be slightly better all things considered. But Smoove is definitely a great passer and shot blocker. But we could discuss that for a long time – both are great PF’s in my opinion.
Back to the parody – I would put Smoove on LeBron after Marvin gets tired and tell him to trash talk to his hearts content. Maybe he gets in LeBron’s head a little bit.
Anyhow, no easy way to defend Superfriends. Fortunately, the 3 will be on the court together for probably less than half the game. They’ll probably all 3 average 36mpg or so, but will be in and out at different intervals.
Grandad
September 23rd, 2010
10:28 pm
Mary Ellen
I typed my post before I read *Wally Walker’s story..^..above..^..!
SteveW
September 23rd, 2010
10:29 pm
Man I used to enjoy watching Drew go head to head with Dr. J. Always seemed to be a great game, and they both excelled. Was Drew the last player to use the glass effectively from mid-range or what?
George Gervin, Adrian Dantley, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, Rick Barry, Pistol Pete, Lou Hudson, Darryl Dawkins, World B Free etc. Man were those the days! Joe Barry Carroll – the list just goes on….
SteveW
September 23rd, 2010
10:31 pm
Man, talking about having misfortune – DeMarr Johnson was what, a 6th pick before the car wreck. I always thought he had the potential to be pretty good – a 15ppg, 5rb, 4ast kind of guy – long and lean.
SteveW
September 23rd, 2010
10:32 pm
Ramon – also on previous posts I have said if Bosh goes down, you still have a problem – if Wade or LeBron goes down, you have a chance.
Grandad
September 23rd, 2010
10:54 pm
Defending both the super fiends -&- Superman.
“Sometimes good defense starts by making the other guy guard you.”
‘G-dad’
Mull that one over for awhile.
It will help you appreciate the concept.
northcyde
September 23rd, 2010
11:15 pm
Lebron James has a real good shot at averaging close to 10 assists this year. His game has always been more Oscar Robertson than Michael Jordan. Wade will lead them in scoring. Bosh will still be a 20 ppg – 10 rebs guy.
At least one of these guys will be in the game at all times.
At least two of these guys should be in the game 3/4ths of the game.
You win with talent in the NBA. The reason why we won 53 games, is because we were talented. Every one of their veterans have playoff experience . . even Mike Miller ( when he was in Memphis ).
Before the Hawks can worry about the Heat, they need to form an identity of their own. After that, they need to make a full commitment to playing good team defense on a nightly basis.
SteveW
September 23rd, 2010
11:15 pm
Grandad – I do agree
On Smoove – my biggest problem with him is his whining and complaining. He’s such a great player, maybe has more potential than any PF in the League. But his complaining and allowing bad calls to get in his head, his sulking – it hurts the team, and hence his value to the team. If he had a little more of Bosh’s demeanor, not in its entirety but a small part, his value to the team, while already immense, would be magnified yet more. But he has come a looong way.
truthspitter
September 23rd, 2010
11:37 pm
Marvin Williams is the biggest disappointment and weakness with this team when you think about making the step to elite team. Let’s be frank here, if the Hawks are gonna get out of the 2nd round and into the Eastern Conference Finals they will have to become an undeniable Elite team in the NBA. I just don’t see that happening without upgrading Marvin Williams position more than any other position. Even if you have to move Josh Smith to SF and go out and get a stronger and or taller C than Al. I keep saying it because it is true. Moving Josh to SF and going after a C is more feasible than thinking a Pg is going to fall into your laps. People, if you watched Billups this summer you know that he has lost 2 steps and is not good on defense anymore and noone is looking to trade you Paul, Williams, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook or anyone on that level, plus Teague is not a pure PG and will take a lot of time considering he did not even play the position exclusively in college. Next, we don’t need anymore SG’s if we wanted to go small just forget defense and throw Crawford in there which I am not a fan of the idea. Next, we have 2 guys that can play PF at an all-star level in Al and Josh. Next, Josh has played SF before and the zone is now legal in the NBA, which is a defense we seem to refuse to use. Lastly, this summer is going to be huge for Center on the FA market. Javal McGee, Greg Oden, Samuel Dalembert, Marc Gasol, and Kendrick Perkins are all Free Agents of some sort. Add to that the fact that I would have rather had Al Jefferson on this team trying to play C due to his girth than Al Horford we have made too many mistakes when having chances to go after guys. We have a better chance at getting a C and moving Josh to SF than getting a SF.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
12:25 am
A Man’s Worth!
Well, it seems like no team is willing to deal their best player
for Melo. Why is that?
Fundamentals surmised it best, when he said:
“You don’t show your best draft pick that’s been the leader of your team the door for a kid who can’t get his team out of the 1st round with a “legit” center, a great PG, All Star Power forward and better surrounding cast b/c hello they spent like 20 million more a year.”
I believe Fundamentals was describing Melo there. Why are
all these teams backing away from snatching this guy up?
Because, he doesn’t make their team – Better!
Not, if you have to gut the Fish to get him? It puts your team
in a rebuilding mode and you still need the Big Three!
The biggest knock on Melo is his negative disposition, laziness, high volume
scoring, lack of defensive energy (except when he guarded Kobe a few years back), but, not seen since, lack of leadership and now the bossy wife
who also needs to be accommodated? R U Kiddin’ me?
Is she a Diva or what? Trying to get her deal wrapped up in his
deal?
Go Fish!
MsDee
September 24th, 2010
12:39 am
LOL..Too funny Dr Mary and yet so true about Mrs. LaLa!!
Clyde
September 24th, 2010
12:47 am
Chris Crawford > Marvin
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
12:58 am
La La La La La …. La La La – La!
Isn’t that a Christmas Carol?
Ms. Dee
I had to do it! I had to bash that Diva! She needs to get a Life!
She may be running Melo – But, she ain’t running the NBA!
We don’t give a damn what she wants!
She is a Gimmick! If she had some talent?
Your talent is your Gimmick! She apparently ain’t got none.
Didn’t she start out as a DJ for Ludicrous – in Atlanta?
Then she need to spin a damn record on the 1’s and 2’s and
stay out of the NBA! This is a grown man’s business!
I see the two of them as a – Goody’s Powder 2 Pack!
That’s what the GM will need if he signs Melo & La La!
I believe they have over-estimated Melo’s market value.
I’m just sayin’
Shaq made the same mistake and you see what he got paid!
Ha Ha – La La!
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
1:11 am
Patience is a Virtue!
Like Jamal? Melo needs to play out the final year of his
hefty and rich contract.
If Jamal thinks he is stuck with a 10M contract?
I wish somebody – anybody, would stick me like that!
Wah … Wah … Wah! Sorry, I can’t feel sorry for these greedy guys!
Aye … Just wait 82 more games and both these guys will be
UFA’s! Why give up your assets for them now! Make them show
their game next season and see what they got to offer –
when their backs are against the wall! You always get max-effort
when they want something!
Let the CBA nail their thumbs to the wall and then sign them
nubs …. nubby – nubby – nubbed – finger tips to the dotted line.
You will get a much better deal for your franchise!
See Shaq … He wanted 8M per from the Hawks, but he got
TJ – Maxxed! The Max for The Minimum @ TJ – Maxx!
The Vets Minimum with National TV Games as the caveat!
MsDee
September 24th, 2010
1:32 am
Dr Mary,
Totally agree with ya on both comments; Mrs. LaLa and Jamal. I wish someone could hand me a 10mil paycheck..hay, we could split that baby and still be satisfied!! LOL!!
KevinM
September 24th, 2010
1:54 am
Wally, great story about JD, one of the all-time Hawks who was at times their only offense.
Clyde – wow! Talk about putting Marvin in a slot.
That takes some serious thinking……now name your best all time AtlHawks that you remember playing here………here’s mine:
PG – Mookie Blaylock – he and Doc both to make an all-star game as a PG…Rivers a close 2nd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mookie_Blaylock
SG – Pistol Pete – Sweet Lou Hudson was money also
C – Walt ‘Bells’ Bellamy – always undersized but still could deal with Wilt/Kareem…2nd-Moses Malone
SF – Nique – no one comes close
PF – a tossup between Leonard ‘The Truck’ Robinson or Dan Roundfield…both guys brought it every night.
Not a bad lineup for the Hawks.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
2:02 am
Past is Prelude.
-drmaryb-
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
2:09 am
Dissin’ & Pissin’ on ‘Em!
KevinM said it best, when he said:
“Clyde – wow! Talk about putting Marvin in a slot.
That takes some serious thinking……now name your best all time AtlHawks that you remember playing here………here’s mine:”
That requires a minimum of two brain cells and at least 5ive words,
Good Luck with that!
Clyde
September 24th, 2010
2:15 am
pg – Pistol Pete
sg – Lou Hudson or Steve Smith
sf – Nique
pf – Kevin Willis
c – Mutombo
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
2:16 am
Ms.Dee
I know right?
Talk about Fantasy Island – huh?
vava74
September 24th, 2010
2:23 am
I hope someone gets Smoove to read this.
This is getting completely out of hand with Stern protecting his “marquee products”:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5609817
drmaryb (*_*)
September 24th, 2010
2:47 am
vava74
Well then … Stern needs to also fine the ASKG for filing lawsuits
against each other to block trades within the NBA!
(See the Joe Johnson trade!)
Stern also need to fine the referees for bad calls against:
Non-super Stars
Stern also need to fine Franchises for Not improving their team rosters
when they sux like The Clippers!
If you don’t want to compete? And it’s obvious? You’re fined!
And, I could keep going … But, I’m too sleepy!
wordsmithtom
September 24th, 2010
6:21 am
Maybe Stern has been talking to McMahan of the WWE….sometimes seems that way.
Josh will, no doubt, have a different voice in his ear this season. Mrs. Smith. Perhaps a combination of lost revenue and “honey don’t” will help him go quietly after the ref issues his edicts. Maturity coming with matrimoney….could happen.
Yes, where players perceive they are being mistreated, it’s natural to want to speak out. LD will have to get JS’s attention before the season starts on this ref issue. Ref’s know JS’s past history and will have him in the crosshairs. He’s a marked man. Let’s see if they treat Stern’s “superstars” equally. Pixie dust displays should fit within this edict, IMHO.
O'Brien
September 24th, 2010
7:13 am
Vava,.
No wonder Rasheed Wallace retired. Anyhow, I got tired of seeing Josh complain to the refs and be late back down court, so I definitely hope he will let his game do the talking.
truthspitter, .
We have a good idea of what we will get from Josh, Al, Jamal and JJ, although they can still raise their games. But the biggest impact will be determined by Marvin, PG play, and defense.
If Marvin can knock down the open shots more consistently, play even better defense, and improve his rebounding, this team will be that much better.
O'Brien
September 24th, 2010
7:14 am
*excuse the bold
jason
September 24th, 2010
8:19 am
SteveW,
I disagree with your post on 8:14. why would you start ZaZa if he is only going to foulout in the first quarter. Josh is more of a defensive presense and will make bosh wish he never messed with smoove. I would understand if you said etan thomas but zaza really?
vava74
September 24th, 2010
9:26 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttWb7749kjc&feature=related
I cried then and I cried again now remembering that awful trade.
the hawks franchise should remain haunted forever on account of that.
this link is only part 1, there are 3 more.
Astro Joe
September 24th, 2010
9:32 am
I’m all for the new technical foul rule. i HATE watching players act like 3 YOs when they disgaree with a call… pampered babies. I don’t get to act like a little girl when I put the cheese on the burger in the exact right spot… sometimes, you just have to deal honestly with your mistakes at work.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
September 24th, 2010
9:40 am
Wally Walker
Wow, thanks man for that piece on my favorite (obviously) Hawk of all-time !
He was such a fun guy. Every time he scored he’d pull his trunks up, and when he got hot, I was afraid his onions were going to pop out, those trunks were already daisy-dukes ! (lol)
SteveW
September 24th, 2010
9:56 am
Jason – No not really. It was a parody. A suplex is a wrestling move. I had an entire scenario mapped out in my head, I decided it wasn’t worth writing down since it was a joke anyway. It had Bibby and Smoove’s posses squaring off against LeBron’s and Eddie House”s; Collins and Magliore sumo wresting etc. So no, I wasn’t serious. Already posted an explanation in an earlier post.