Atlanta Hawks: With start of new season near, end to ‘10 still burns
Hawks say they remember what this felt like.
For the first part of this summer, everywhere Marvin went he got different variations of the same question.
What the heck happened to the Hawks in that series against the Magic?
“Early in the summer [he heard it] but, after a while, people started to get ready for football season, thankfully,” Marvin said today after informal workouts at Philips. “But, God, the first month, month-and-a-half, it was: ‘Yo, what happened?’ Dude, you were watching the games. You tell me what happened?”
The Magic beat down the Hawks in historical fashion, everybody saw it, and Hawks players know their reps took a major hit. After finishing third in the East and openly talking about a championship run, the Hawks folded in the face of adversity and eventually earned the wrath of their own fans.
True competitors with any sense of pride are not going to go out like that. Each time I’ve talked to L.D. he’s made it a point to say he believes the way last season ended will have a bearing on how players approach this season.
“We pretty much got embarrassed in the second round,” J.J. said the other day. “I am sure it won’t happen again.”
There are Hawks with lots to prove individually this season. Can Marvin be consistent? Can J.J. share the ball, deliver a strong postseason and live up to his contract? Will Smoove continue to mature? Can Teague take over the point? Can L.D. bring it all together?
But after what happened against the Magic, the Hawks have a lot to prove as a group, too. Critics, some of them internal, accused the Hawks of quitting. The lasting memory for the Hawks in 2009-10 wasn’t 53 Ws, 34-7 at home or No. 3 in the East, but how those significant accomplishments nearly faded into irrelevance after they meekly succumbed to the Magic.
“Honestly, me personally, it definitely doesn’t sit well with me,” J.J. said. “Coming into the season, I still think about that. I’m going to do whatever it takes to get over that hump. It did leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think it’s something we can bounce back from. We just have to be confident.”
With no major personnel additions this summer the Hawks are largely counting on improvement from the same group. There is plenty of external skepticism about whether that will be enough to put them over the top, and surely a lot of that is due to how last season ended.
“To lose the way you lose, it kind of sits in my stomach,” Marvin said. “To come out and play the way we played against Orlando—we lost by 20, 25 a night! We are better than that, man. I think the world knows we are better than that.
“Take nothing from Orlando, they are a great team. But the Atlanta Hawks are better than [losing by] 20 or 25 a night. That just kind of sits in your stomach all summer. I think guys look back at those last two [losing] playoff series, and we want to get better. So we’ve got to try to build. ”
Quick hits
– I don’t think the Hawks are hot to add a fifth center (and a 15th guaranteed contract) after re-signing Twin and getting Etan Thomas. So while the Hawks have talked to Erick Dampier’s rep it doesn’t look like he’s going to end up in Atlanta.
– Word is Jamal Crawford opted not to come to town early for his pre-camp physicals. All indications are that Crawford will report Monday as required. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about his contract situation on media day.
– I’m told Jordan Crawford has stood out during the informal runs at Philips. I caught the tail end of today’s session, where JC2 showed why he’s considered a natural scorer. Guys like that flourish in games like that. He’s not shy about pulling up for long jumpers, though I’m sure that instinct will be tempered once things get serious.
– In addition to Marvin and JC2, Bibby, Teague and Josh Powell also were at today’s run. So were free agent vets Stackhouse and Anthony Johnson.
Follow me on Twitter @ajchawks.
MC
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509 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
September 22nd, 2010
1:16 pm
Grandad, I find it utterly amazing that any fan who watched Pape Sy play 2 summer league games can make any kind of projection about his NBA potential. I’ve been known to make some fearless predictions, but predicting anything other than “Mario West minutes” for the 53rd pick from a lesser European League is FARRRRR out there. I’d go so far as to say that the reason he is “projected” as a PG is because it makes more sense to show his as the 3rd PG than as the 5th SG.
cp
September 22nd, 2010
1:56 pm
Grandad there is a video on Hawks.com where they ask Marvin about his plans for the summer and not once did he mention anything basketball related. Now I’m not saying he didn’t work on his game nor did i say that in my original post. I said he probably didn’t do much. Marvin probably worked out with Sean May again which he does every summer. I’m sorry but working out with Sean May is not going to cut it..
O’Brien I’m sure that Marvin did say that. Rod from CP gives Marvin a lot of flack but his post was spot on. Its good that Marvin is trying to get his degree and giving back to the community but the Hawks need him to put that kind of effort into improving his game. Guys like Josh and Horford work hard every summer and come back better in some area yet Marvin seems like the same player he has always been. He just does not have the passion or drive to want to be a better player. He is cool with being what he is and that’s the problem with him. He has all the tools necessary to be a better player yet lacks the desire to to accomplish it. Although I’m not a big fan of Mo Evans I love how he gives it his all I cant say the same for Marvin.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
2:01 pm
SQUASH THAT ISH!
Astro Joe is The ISH Squasher MVP on this Blog Today!
Here is the ISH he squashed:
“heck they cant even beat the okay ones thats just at .500 Wanna challenge me…lets put up the season stats.”
Moehawk, you mean like going 4-0 against the Eastern Conference Champion Celtics? There record against winning teams was at least among the best 25-30% in the league last season.
http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/type/expanded/sort/gamesBehind”
I linked those stats and The Hawks were in the Top THREE of teams that WON against teams with records of .500 or better.
The Hawks won
25 – 20
The Lakers won
27 – 20
‘Nuff Said!
Get ‘Em Astro Joe! Get ‘Em!
Grandad
September 22nd, 2010
2:04 pm
Astro Joe
I’m just goin’ on Cunningham’s quote from LD
as it pertains to ‘Paps’ being projected as a [1].
I personally think ‘Paps’ will have more impact
as a [3], but more importantly as a versatle defender
of four positions.
Your right PS only played 2 games.
*[three less than JC2]
I don’t think it is any less [(utterly)] amazing
that a person sees potential in P.SY than JC2.
I do agree with the Mario analogy in that he’s Mario
with offensive ability.
I’m not sure what LD sees in ‘Paps’ but I tend to notice
defense & I was very very impressed with his def.
Still though, your comments are well taken.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
2:09 pm
Come Together!
Keeping a 53 win 2nd round playoff team together?
How is that a bad thing? All we need to do is improve the
teams weaknesses. Did we do that well enough?
We shall see.
Astro Joe
September 22nd, 2010
2:10 pm
Why? Why does Marvin need to take away time from obtaining his degree or serving the community to try and become Carmelo Anthony? Seriously, would any of us want someone to tell us what we should do with our free time? If his boss feels like he is inadequately prepared to perform the job he is being paid to do, then his boss will address that. Considering that these guys are a serious injury away from losing their career (see Darius Miles), I don’t fault any player for having a long-term view. I definitely won’t criticize a young man for pursuing a college degree or focusing on the less fortunate in our society… even if it means that he shoots a percentage point less as a result of not taking 1,000 jumpers per day during his off-time.
northcyde
September 22nd, 2010
2:16 pm
Leon, great post. I’m hoping that Jordan is the guy that can crack the top 9 as well, replacing Mo Evans, or in a worst case scenario, Jeff Teague.
As for the “pass first” PG issue, we all hope that Teague can be that guy. Keep in mind though that in the final regular season game in which he posted 15 assists, he had the ball in his hands exclusively in ISO, Pick & Roll, and Transition situatons. In college, Teague was definitely more a “lead guard” than a point guard ( ala Salim Stoudamire at Arizona ).
But of course, Teague’s game is much more suited to play the point than Salim’s was.
Jordan Crawford may be somewhere between a Rodney Stuckey/Randy Foye type of player. Players who are around 6-4 and can play both the point and the 2.
I don’t know if he’ll be as good as even Randy Foye, but Jordan has a similar skillset to him. What will make or break Jordan, is his defensive abilities. If he proves he can defend both 1s and 2s, he’ll have a decent shot at being that 9th or 10th man.
GeeMack
September 22nd, 2010
2:48 pm
drmaryb (*_*) Astro
Does beating the Celtics 4 times in the regular season matter when you quit to a lesser team in the Playoffs.
cp
September 22nd, 2010
3:05 pm
Nobody is saying he shouldn’t pursue his degree. I’m happy he is trying to get it and I even said that in the earlier post but the man is getting paid millions to play basketball. That is his job. My point was he needs to put in more effort to become a better player. Is that wrong to expect a guy you took number 2 in the draft and need a bigger contribution from to work on getting better? Nobody said don’t pursue a degree or help your community but it would be nice to know he did something to improve his game. And considering that his bosses are Sund and the ASG I wouldn’t put too much stock in his bosses addressing his underwhelming play. These are the same bosses that rewarded a guy who was so fat he had to be put on the injured list with a new contact.
Mike is back
September 22nd, 2010
3:14 pm
Astro Joe, excellent point on Marvin.
On your 12:52 post about Bibby:
I’d put money on Bibby earning 24 minutes/game before I would put that same amount on Teague earning 24 minutes/game in the 2010-11 season. And that assumes we’re a 50-win team.
That’s a bold statement…Heck, if Bibby ends up logging that many minutes a game… his often-injured physically limited body will be, broke up…before the All Star break. lol
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
3:24 pm
Gee Mack
You missed the entire point!
Re-read the post and look at the link.
Stay on the topic. It was a direct response to a flat out lie!
2 FOR JOHN DREW
September 22nd, 2010
3:30 pm
Aaaaahhhhhhhh ….. it’s all better now !
I’ve got my Dr’s. shot for 2day …. Thanks Doc !
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
3:32 pm
Do You See – What I See?
VaVa74
Do you see that twinkle in Jordan’s eye and that gargantuan Chip on his shoulder?
I saw the background story on Jordan, his convoluted journey to the NBA is
riveting and his Mother is a CEO of Public Relations for the Motor City – Detroit.
Here’s my point: I mentioned the twinkle and chip numerous times before,
since Jordan was drafted. His game, really reminds me of DWade’s game.
IMHO, we may have the steal of this draft. Jordan may be better than Evan Turner
in Philly!
I’m just sayin’ and prayin’! Watch Out!
Ken Strickland
September 22nd, 2010
3:44 pm
KEVINM-you’re correct, we did win last yr featuring the one on one ISO OFF, but only during the regular season. We struggled mightily to win the last 2 1st rd playoffs series, and were “B” SLAPPED during the 2nd round of those playoffs. LDrew’s motion OFF, or any structured OFF, gives us structure and drastically reduces our predictability, which was a MAJOR PROBLEM UNDER WOODSON.
Down the stretch of close gms, a structured motion OFF will allow all 5 Hawks to be scoring options and treats. Over the last 2-3yrs, that hasn’t been an option. With LDrew’s approach and motion OFF system, when going down the stretch of close gms and/or during the playoffs, we’ll have something other than the predictable ISO to pressure DEF’s and score. No more reliance of a one man attack, while his teammate clear out and become little more than spectators.
No more blaming the players for allegedly not playing hard enough, or fans blaming the player(s) they love to hate and/or criticize the most.
It’s quite obvious that everyone associated with the Hawks organization felt Woodson was not getting maximum effort and production from individual players or the team. Why else would management bring back basically the same squad? Their thinking had to be THAT IF THE HAWKS WERE TALENTED ENOUGH TO OVERCOME ALL OF THE INTERNAL OBSTACLES THAT WERE PRESENT AND SUCCESSFULLY DEFY EVERYONE’S PRESEASON PREDICTIONS FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE YRS, THIS SAME TEAM COULD BE EVEN BETTER AND ACCOMPLISH EVEN MORE IF THOSE INTERNAL OBSTACLES WERE ELIMINATED. Therefore, Woodson out, LDrew in.
The Hawks might not end up being as good as some are predicting, but there’s certainly no logical reason to believe they’ll be as bad as some are predicting. With an Allstar C(AHorford), a 4 time consecutive All Star(JJ), a potential All star(Smoove), and 3 young potential contributors(JoCrawford, JTeague, JPowell), we have a lot of talent.
And exactly what info or proof does any of you have that gives you the right to classify a young player like JPowell as a scrub? While I haven’t seen enough of him to say he’ll be an instant success and major contributor, I’ve seen enough to know he’s very athletic and aggressive, which is the type of player that fits LDrew’s OFF/DEF philosophy and style perfectly.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
3:46 pm
Gee Mack
When you’re done bashing the Hawks?
Don’t forget to save some of that hate for the:
Cavaliers
Magic
They got beat too, granted not in historic fashion, but The Hawks
don’t have any future HOF’s on their team either.
LeBron, pouted and sulked and flat out QUIT on his team!
Yelled at Mike Brown to play Hickson, and didn’t even bother
to get up and join the huddles. Something about … Delonte
banging his Mamma? What does that have to do with
Basketball?
Anyway, don’t forget to spread the love. Oh yeah, and throw
Dallas in there too. They got a HOF’er too, who just reigned
a super-max deal at his age.
I’m just sayin! Spread the Love!
The Truth
September 22nd, 2010
3:50 pm
Dr Maryb:
“we may have the steal of this draft. Jordan may be better than Evan Turner
in Philly!”
I love the way that sound. Looking at him close-up, he actually looks like a young JJ. If this Motown kid can stroke like JJ (or better) with the heart of Vinnie “the microwave Johnson”, then he really will be something special. The problem is PT. Some people come to see; saw people come to be seen. You got to be on the stage to be seen.
The Truth
September 22nd, 2010
3:54 pm
“some people come to be seen.”
Rod from College Park
September 22nd, 2010
3:54 pm
Astro,
Because he is paid 7 to 8 million dollars a year to do a job, and his salary is guaranteed. He is paid to do a job, that he is not doing. His boss, or people who speak for his boss (The Coach) have said as much. This is basketball, not football, he will get his money unless does something that voids that contract. His boss can’t put in him, the desire and drive to make him want to get better in the offseason. He has to do that. He basically has the Hawks by the balls now. In case you didn’t know, I don’t know of many African American History professors or activist who make 8 mil per. He is able to use his name and celebrity to help the youth based on the fact that he is employed by the Atlanta Hawks, not because he is studying to get a degree. No one is criticizing him for working on his degree, we are criticizing him, based on his words, for not realizing that the improvement of his game, should be his #1 priority at the point of his life.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
3:56 pm
2 for John Drew!
Excuse me? Do I know you?
This is a Blog – nothing personal going on here!
Scroll on Bruh!
dukester
September 22nd, 2010
4:01 pm
This whole chemistry talk from the organization is really sad. Now if they consider Marvin a part of this chemistry they are crazy. How could you not think that Carmelo would not be an upgrade over Marvin??? A trade for Carmelo right now would instantly put this franchise to the top of the heap. I really believe Denver and Carmelo would accept a trade of: Marvin, Jamal Crawford and a couple of picks!! If they wouldnt take that deal then fine but at leaast offer it.
The Truth
September 22nd, 2010
4:15 pm
From my 2010-2011 previewed link on Marvin; perhaps explain why Cleveland was interested. One man’s junk is another man’s treasure:
The Unheralded Player: Marvin Williams. It’s very easy to beat up on Williams. Sandwiched In a starting lineup that features, Johnson, Smith, Al Horford and Mike Bibby, he’s clearly the member with the least amount of professional accomplishments. Throw in the fact that he was selected before Chris Paul and Deron Williams in the 2005 draft and ladies and gentlemen you have an easy scapegoat. But lost in the mix is a player that has become a bona fide 10-13 point scoring threat that is only 24 years old. On a squad with so much talent, Williams does the dirty work and doesn’t complain about shot attempts. He also has developed into a pretty solid wing defender. Williams’ total contribution to the team won’t show up on the box score, but if he were to suffer a long term injury his presence would be felt immediately with Maurice Evans the only other small forward option on the roster with experience.
SteveW
September 22nd, 2010
4:27 pm
I’m happy the Hawks signed Etan and Josh as well. My kind of players for what they are, tough, intelligent, know their role 10-13 type guys. Good in the locker room types. Powell with 2 rings, Smoove better listen to him.
On Bibby, I don’t know. 24 mpg average for the whole season? 1st half maybe, but the entire season…well I just don’t know. We do know if Jamal is here, he’s getting 28+ mpg if healthy. And with JJ at 35 mpg, and probably 30 of those coming at SG, and JC2 playing a little there – I say Jamal plays 10-15 mpg at least at PG. I say Teague and Bibby average somewhere around 20 mpg each, with maybe Teague playing more as the season progresses – younger legs and stuff. I could be wrong…..
SteveW
September 22nd, 2010
4:33 pm
KenS – I think his NBA career to this point, and especially last year, show he is a scrub. And by scrub I mean somebody 9-13 on a roster who will average less that 5 ppg, 5rbg, and 12 mpg, not be great a blocking shots, steals or defense. Now I do agree that LD made a comment that he liked his shot – and he may flourish in the ATL his hometown, and I hope he does. But recently especially, Josh has been a scrub. I do think he has potential however, and can be a solid rotational guy behind Smoove, and even better behind the scenes.
Rod from College Park
September 22nd, 2010
4:53 pm
The Truth,
Sorry to say it, but i don’t buy the Cleveland was interested stuff. It was all talk and speculation. If anything, they were trying to get a seviceable small forward to replace Lebron for nothing. Averaging 10 to 13 points a game with no one checking you, and the quality (uncontested) looks he does get really is nothing special. I don’t think that there is another starting SF in the league who could not do that. Maybe I am biased, but i also don’t see the dirty work he does for this team. That dirty work designation would have to go to Josh or Horford. I rarely ever see Marvin on the ground after loose balls, getting steals or battling for rebounds. When he did get injured, we actually did not miss him. Our record was better with Mo Evans in the lineup.
Rev in Tampa
September 22nd, 2010
4:57 pm
Truth, that article is going to be like poking a stick into a wasps’ nest on this blog.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
5:01 pm
Can You measure a Man’s Heart?
Only God can do that!
The Truth responded to me and he replied this way!
“Dr Maryb:
“we may have the steal of this draft. Jordan may be better than Evan Turner
in Philly!”
I love the way that sound. Looking at him close-up, he actually looks like a young JJ. If this Motown kid can stroke like JJ (or better) with the heart of Vinnie “the microwave Johnson”, then he really will be something special. The problem is PT. Some people come to see; saw people and some people come to be seen. You got to be on the stage to be seen.”
Yes Siiirr.
Didn’t Shaq say in his article that he didn’t consider playing for
The Hawks, because we don’t have enough National TV Games
scheduled? He fits into “The Truth’s” category of:
Some people come to be seen!
Also, The Truth, mentioned the HEART of “Vinnie the Microwave”
If, Jordan plays with that type of Heart and Energy?
(as “The Donkey” little Nate Robinson talked about when he and
Shrek did the presser after Game 6 in the Finals?)
Then, Yes! Jordan may be “The Steal” of this draft.
But, like The Truth said, “That is predicated on getting PT.”
I trust that Mr. Drew will play the young fella, like Skiles played
his rookie Jennings – “Jenny on the Block!”
northcyde
September 22nd, 2010
5:09 pm
LOL . . . Marvin can’t win for losing.
When it comes to Marvin, I’m at the point in which I want to see him make an “A” or a “B+” in at least one area of his game. Just give us something that everyone agrees on that he can do well.
It’s like your child’s report card. Which is the better card?
Card #1:
Math – C
English – C
Biology – C
U.S. History – C
Health – C
Drama – C
GPA: 2.0
*************
Card #2
Math – A
English – C
Science – D
U.S. History – C
Health – D
Drama – C
GPA – 2.0
**************
Both cards are nothing to write home about. And Card #2 has two D’s. But at least the child with Card #2 can claim that he’s a math whiz. The Child with Card #1 is just average across the board, and can’t claim that he’s real good at anything, while not being really bad at anything either.
That’s how I view Marvin. He’s the child with Card #1.
But I would rather him be the child with Card #2. He doesn’t have to be real good at everything. Just be great in one area.
wordsmithtom
September 22nd, 2010
5:12 pm
These are young cats. The’ve improved every year. Woody brought them as far as he could. LD offers a different approach. Will they address the pain from having their pants lowered and pounded by Orlando? I think they will. Better bench helps,(JC2, JP, Sy, Etan all, IMHO better, or at least more physical, and that in my opinion means better) and a HC willing to play this bench. More running and gunning which plays to Hawks advantage. A lot of “if’s”….but I keep referrring to Boston’s game plan down the stretch. Instead of winning games they didn’t need, they played the bench. The bench responded come playoffs. Hawks bench was nonfactor come playoffs and regulars were tired. I don’t see LD letting this happen to us this year, and if starters don’t stand up, you will see changes in the “core” come midseason.
Too much negativity for this quality collection of players. Yes, they must produce…My money says they will.
The Truth
September 22nd, 2010
5:16 pm
Rod
I can’t disagree that the Cleveland buzz could have been speculation or maybe not, we will never know because apparently the Hawks was not interested enough in Shaq to advance the discussions. It is interesting though to here another prospective on Marvin from outside. Some of these opinions we will agree with, some we will not. Again, one man’s junk is another man’s treasure.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
5:23 pm
College Daze!
Rod from College Park knows a little something about College!
After all, he did stay at a home in College Park last night!
Sorta, like them Holiday Inn Express Hotels – that makes you
smarter! rof – lol!
Rod said:
“Because he is paid 7 to 8 million dollars a year to do a job, and his salary is guaranteed. He is paid to do a job, that he is not doing. His boss, or people who speak for his boss (The Coach) have said as much. This is basketball, not football, he will get his money unless does something that voids that contract. His boss can’t put in him, the desire and drive to make him want to get better in the offseason. He has to do that. He basically has the Hawks by the balls now. In case you didn’t know, I don’t know of many African American History professors or activist who make 8 mil per. He is able to use his name and celebrity to help the youth based on the fact that he is employed by the Atlanta Hawks, not because he is studying to get a degree. No one is criticizing him for working on his degree, we are criticizing him, based on his words, for not realizing that the improvement of his game, should be his #1 priority at the point of his life.”
Rod, Damn Skippy!
I don’t give a rat’s tail about MW getting his degree in the Summer!
If, his degree was so important? He should have stayed his
azz in school for three more years, when it was free and pre-paid for.
Once, he entered the Draft, hired an Agent and signed the NBA contract?
The NBA and The Hawks became his #1 priority!
MW is trying to have his cake and eat it too!
We don’t get to do that, neither should Marvin Williams.
The rest of us have to live in the real world.
Life is not a Buffet! You don’t always get to choose from 10 different
meats to go with the vegetables. MW need to do what MJ did – don’t leave the
gym until you sink 1000 jumpers per day – period!
jason
September 22nd, 2010
5:25 pm
i say we trade mo evans for cash and we sign jerry stackhouse
wordsmithtom
September 22nd, 2010
5:25 pm
Hawks lost several games during second half when starters wore down and Woody didn’t play the bench. You won’t see that with this year’s team.Starters were either tired or gave up on Woody. Chemistry….I’d rather see them lose while running their arses off, than lose by “protecting leads” with starters finishing games in supposed blowouts or against weaker teams. 82 game season is a grind. Even young guys wear down when they don’t feel they’re being treated well. I think the team felt Woody was playing for his ass, instead of playing to his strength. No excuses this year. LD is NOT Woody. It’s play hard or sit. The bench is deep and wants minutes.
Listen up MW….the bench wants your minutes. My gut says he pays attention.
wordsmithtom
September 22nd, 2010
5:26 pm
I’d replace Mo Evans for Stack too…….but I’m cool with the team as constructed.
northcyde
September 22nd, 2010
5:27 pm
No Josh shouldn’t listen to Powell. Why?
That dude has 2 rings by default, because he did nothing to help the Lakers win those rings out on the court.
Someof you completely overvalue the “good locker room guy”. Usually when a player is described as such, his actual NBA game is sub par. Good locker room guys are usually the people either cheerleading from the bench, or is the practical joker on the team that keeps people loose.
LOL . . . that’s almost the “kiss of death” . . . being referred to as a “good locker room guy”, before anybody says anything about your actual skillset.
The Truth
September 22nd, 2010
5:46 pm
northcyde, this statement:
“But I would rather him be the child with Card #2. He doesn’t have to be real good at everything. Just be great in one area.”
You may have touched on the real dilemma Marvin finds himself in. As was suggested, The Hawks are a multi-talented team that needs a utility player to do the dirty work and make hustle plays. Those utility players don’t do any one thing particularly well. They are just average players with a lot of heart (since heart is not a skill). That would be more like your Card #1 Child. At any given instance on offense, only one player can take the shot. We have more then enough of those players. As I noted in a previous blog, the Hawks offensive ranking last season was on par with the Lakers. But, we got smoked on defense. I’m not saying Marvin is the perfect utility player, but that is the kind of player we need on this team.
OK
September 22nd, 2010
5:48 pm
“As the season progresses, Bibby may be the odd man out with playing time….”
Yes, this will happen. Certainly. JC2 WILL become the backup point behiend Teague. If JC1 can do it then so can JC2 (he did it in the summer and looked pretty darn good at it to me). JC1 & JC2 Will be the tag-team guard tandem off the bench like Larry Hughes and Gilbert Arenas were for washington (THEY WERE IN THE SAME OFFENSE THAT WE WILL RUN).
WE ALL KNOW THAT GILBERT ARENAS IS NO PASS-FIRST PG. NEITHER HIM NOR HUGHES ARE “TRUE” PG’S SO TO SAY THAT JC2 CAN’T DO IT IS BLASPHEMY. WHY WOULD HE BE LEARNING TWO POSITIONS? DUDE ALREADY KNOWS HOW TO FILL IT UP FROM THE SG SPOT.
northcyde
September 22nd, 2010
5:56 pm
@ wordsmithtom . . . it wasn’t that Boston wasn’t worried about winning those games. It was that they COULDN’T win those games.
Keep in mind that it was Boston who came out of the starting blocks flying. I think they were something like 19 – 5 at one time last year. But when the injuries started to happen, they became a very mediocre team ( especially without their defensive and emotional lader . . KG ).
They even made a trade for Nate Robinson. A trade that ( at that time ) I thought was specifically aimed at US, if we ever met in the playoffs.
The Boston bench really didn’t play well at all last season. Big Baby especially didn’t play well.
But when the “lights” of the playoffs came on, they had everybody back healthy, and was able to get production out of key people. And Rondo started playing like the leader of the team.
Also, they had no one to challenge them in that division.
So it wasn’t that Boston wasn’t worried about the regular season, injuries and inconsistent bench play prevented them from posting a 55+ win season. But they got multiple people to step up in the playoffs, with the most important one being Rajon Rondo, who played like a superstar at times.
northcyde
September 22nd, 2010
6:05 pm
And that Boston defense took it up about 5 notches as well, during the playoffs. That’s a gear that as a team, we only saw one or two times during the postseason last year ( Games 2 & 6 of the Milwaukee series )
Rod from College Park
September 22nd, 2010
6:20 pm
For those who have pointed out how good our production was last year, and how we were on par the the top teams in the league, please research our offensive production in the playoffs the last two years. Those numbers should help you realize that our offense is not as good as you think it is. I would guess that our production is near the bottom of all of the playoff teams. When we play better teams, in a series, we are not so great offensively. The Cleveland series, and the Orlando series come to mind when we had trouble getting out of the 80’s.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
6:36 pm
Hey Coach! Put me in!
SteveW said:
“I do see us going 11 deep most nights. Maybe even 12 trying to play JC2 some.”
I think you may be very spot on here. You wouldn’t be saying that,
If Mr. Woodson was still coaching the Hawks – hugh?
truthspitter
September 22nd, 2010
6:45 pm
My posting has tailed off because this team looks more depressing than promising. Still no true Center worth playing, still does not have a starting SF worthy of being a part of a perennial playoff team. Still no SF off the bench to push the sorry starting SF. Still no type of defensive presence whatsoever off the bench. This team is built to be SOFT, bottomline
northcyde
September 22nd, 2010
6:45 pm
@ The Truth . . .
Let’s go back to the report card example. But this time, let’s list the possible things that Marvin can bring to the table, and give grades on that:
Card #1:
Perimerter Defense – C
Defensive rebounding – C
Offensive rebounding – C
Midrange jumpshooting – C
3 point jumpshooting – C
Drawing fouls on shots – C
************
Card #2:
Perimeter defense – A
Defensive rebounding – C
Offensive rebounding – D
Midrange jumpshooting – C
3 point jumpshooting – D
Drawing fouls on shots – C
Which Marvin would you rather have? #1 or #2?
O'Brien
September 22nd, 2010
7:09 pm
northcyde,
To add on to your point, I remember Hubie Brown saying your best player should not be the most well liked guy in the locker room.
On our team, our guys are too nice. We need somebody who is not afraid to get in somebody’s face if they’re not doing their job.
And I would report card #2. I know their games are different, but Bruce Bowen was good at 2 things. Defense, and the 3 from the corner.
Tayshaun Prince was known mostly for his defense. Ron Artest has bad shot selection, and a bad attitude at times. but the guy can be a lockdown defender at times.
One offseason, marvin worked on his 3 pt shooting, and he was much improved during the season. But something happened to him last year.
I hope Drew can undo/reverse the spell.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
8:07 pm
NorthCyde (The Report Card)
Wordsmithtom
Dukester
Rev in Tampa
SteveW
Rod from CP
Astro Joe
All, terrific posts tonite! Fantastic points! Keep it coming fellas.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 22nd, 2010
8:20 pm
Hey Coach! Put Me In!
SteveW
I got interrupted earlier, had to see the patients.
But, if Coach Drew will use the bench like Doc Rivers did all
season long? They will be primed and ready for the playoff.
Even, after Nate Robinson was acquired from NY Knicks,
after dropping 45 pts on my Hawks? Doc, sàt him for 3 months
straight and told him to be ready. That, he would win a play-off
game for the Celtics.
Nate stayed humble, believed and did win that play-off game with
Shrek. Nate, had to learn and wàtch how to play Celtics Ball!
Team, Together and no ball hogging. If perkins didn’t blow up his knee?
Celtics Win that series!
I hope Drew was watching that series and the series before against Orlando!
The Hawks could learn from how to rotate players.
Doc was brazen to put that ENTIRE bench out there in the 4th Qrtr.
All 5 4tarters sat and told Doc to leave the bench out there to embarrass the Lakers in Game 6. That takes a Big Pair!
The Truth
September 22nd, 2010
9:35 pm
northcyde
Since you cleared yours up, let me clear mines up. I meant to say utility players don’t do any one thing particularly great. They are complimentary players that fill in gaps with what is missing with our other 4 players. They play with a lot of heart doing the dirty work, getting extra rebounds, making the hustle plays, etc. because JJ, Josh, Bibby and Al aren’t getting that done. From your (revised) listing I also would select card #2 only because you rigged it that way. What if the listing was the following?
Card #2:
Perimeter defense – D
Defensive rebounding – C
Offensive rebounding – C
Midrange jumpshooting – C
3 point jumpshooting – D
Free throw shooting – D
Drawing fouls on shots – A
I would not select Card #2 (but I just rigged it that way just to illustrate)
doc
September 22nd, 2010
10:00 pm
no marvin, the world knows that you guys suck when it come to the magic. what film have you been looking at. they have beaten you guys for the last three years like a drum. they ease up on you guys and you havent shown you can keep with the magic for more than one quarter. sorry they have got your number so bad it is down right stupid of a guy saying he is in college at unc to come to a conclusion the world knows you are better than that.
stevew thanks for the reality check on mr powell. still dont have any idea that etan has something left in the tank, looks good in a uni is about all i can say at this point. as far as him being an upgrade? there arent many folks you could put in a uni that wouldnt be an upgrade on randmo.
Prison Mike
September 22nd, 2010
10:47 pm
Once zsa zsa and duck booty are removed from this roster is when this team will take the next step. 12 million a year of pure averageness.
Grandad
September 22nd, 2010
10:57 pm
cp
Thanks for the response to my query earlier today.
SteveW
September 22nd, 2010
11:05 pm
Northcyde – I only meant Smoove should listen to Powell on how Kobe conducts himself in certains situations, here was the Lakers mindset in this spot, this is what Phil said here etc. I do know the good locker room guy is like a kiss of death. Joe Smith is considered one of the best locker room guy in the NBA according to one report.
I remember Smoove I think it was last playoffs, when the Hawks needed a vocal spokesperson to take charge after some rough times. Somebody said isn’t Joe Smith or Jason Collins saying anything? He replied players only listen to players who are playing alot on court. Thought that was an interesting but probably true assesment of a pro locker room. I coached small college ball for 3 years, and I can say that is almost 100% true in my experience. 1 scrub may be able to help a star, but rarely can he speak to the whole team. No cred.