Atlanta Hawks: With start of new season near, end to ‘10 still burns
Hawks say they remember what this felt like.
For the first part of this summer, everywhere Marvin went he got different variations of the same question.
What the heck happened to the Hawks in that series against the Magic?
“Early in the summer [he heard it] but, after a while, people started to get ready for football season, thankfully,” Marvin said today after informal workouts at Philips. “But, God, the first month, month-and-a-half, it was: ‘Yo, what happened?’ Dude, you were watching the games. You tell me what happened?”
The Magic beat down the Hawks in historical fashion, everybody saw it, and Hawks players know their reps took a major hit. After finishing third in the East and openly talking about a championship run, the Hawks folded in the face of adversity and eventually earned the wrath of their own fans.
True competitors with any sense of pride are not going to go out like that. Each time I’ve talked to L.D. he’s made it a point to say he believes the way last season ended will have a bearing on how players approach this season.
“We pretty much got embarrassed in the second round,” J.J. said the other day. “I am sure it won’t happen again.”
There are Hawks with lots to prove individually this season. Can Marvin be consistent? Can J.J. share the ball, deliver a strong postseason and live up to his contract? Will Smoove continue to mature? Can Teague take over the point? Can L.D. bring it all together?
But after what happened against the Magic, the Hawks have a lot to prove as a group, too. Critics, some of them internal, accused the Hawks of quitting. The lasting memory for the Hawks in 2009-10 wasn’t 53 Ws, 34-7 at home or No. 3 in the East, but how those significant accomplishments nearly faded into irrelevance after they meekly succumbed to the Magic.
“Honestly, me personally, it definitely doesn’t sit well with me,” J.J. said. “Coming into the season, I still think about that. I’m going to do whatever it takes to get over that hump. It did leave a bad taste in my mouth. I think it’s something we can bounce back from. We just have to be confident.”
With no major personnel additions this summer the Hawks are largely counting on improvement from the same group. There is plenty of external skepticism about whether that will be enough to put them over the top, and surely a lot of that is due to how last season ended.
“To lose the way you lose, it kind of sits in my stomach,” Marvin said. “To come out and play the way we played against Orlando—we lost by 20, 25 a night! We are better than that, man. I think the world knows we are better than that.
“Take nothing from Orlando, they are a great team. But the Atlanta Hawks are better than [losing by] 20 or 25 a night. That just kind of sits in your stomach all summer. I think guys look back at those last two [losing] playoff series, and we want to get better. So we’ve got to try to build. ”
Quick hits
– I don’t think the Hawks are hot to add a fifth center (and a 15th guaranteed contract) after re-signing Twin and getting Etan Thomas. So while the Hawks have talked to Erick Dampier’s rep it doesn’t look like he’s going to end up in Atlanta.
– Word is Jamal Crawford opted not to come to town early for his pre-camp physicals. All indications are that Crawford will report Monday as required. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about his contract situation on media day.
– I’m told Jordan Crawford has stood out during the informal runs at Philips. I caught the tail end of today’s session, where JC2 showed why he’s considered a natural scorer. Guys like that flourish in games like that. He’s not shy about pulling up for long jumpers, though I’m sure that instinct will be tempered once things get serious.
– In addition to Marvin and JC2, Bibby, Teague and Josh Powell also were at today’s run. So were free agent vets Stackhouse and Anthony Johnson.
Follow me on Twitter @ajchawks.
MC
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509 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
September 21st, 2010
5:43 pm
Hawkz ,
It’s definitely a good thing that he has been polishing his skills mand making sure his conditioning is right. Can’t argue with that AT ALL. There is a difference between looking bigger and actually being stronger. Losing weight doesn’t necessarily mean losing strength. Josh was never going to be a big rough neck from the beginning. It’s not the best way to optimize what he is, and what he does.
Look at guys like Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin, even Theo Ratliff and Tyrus Thomas. Length and athleticism has defined them. With the exception of Tyrus Thomas, toughness has defined them, too. Camby looked like a skinny joke when he came into the league. What about Joakim Noah? He’s taller, but skinnier. Leading rebounder, though.
Toughness is what we need more than body weight and strength. Toughness begins in the mind. He can use his incredible athleticism, 7′1″ wingspan, his desire….and add mental toughness, which translates into physical toughness. Yeah, there is no direct substitute for sheer weight, size, strength. But sheer weight and size is why we have Etan and Jason Collins (even Zaza).
Toughness can wear on strength and weight. It’s why the much older Kurt Thomas gave the younger Al Horford fits in the bulk of the series against Milwaukee last season.
It’s why Horford beats the dog snausage out of 7′2″ 285 pound Roy Hibbert every time we play Indiana. Well, that and Horford is a superior athlete to Hibbert.
Josh will be fine if he stays on the weights for strength and stamina. But he needs to be tough more than anything else. His athletcisim at a weight of say 225-230 pounds is just fine. Kenyon Martin was never bigger than that. Neither was Marcus Camby (until age added a few pounds). Both have been a pain to deal with in the post.
Big Ray
September 21st, 2010
5:45 pm
Al Horford has to be tougher, as well, though. A LOT tougher. Just sayin’…
northcyde
September 21st, 2010
5:50 pm
Like I’ve been saying on Jordan C . . . if the kid proves that he’s better than Mo Evans, I want him playing instead of Mo. Play him in front of Teague too, for that matter, if he’s the better player.
Drew has to play his best bench players if they can ball. And for those that can’t ball, keep them off the floor.
Chach Drew needs 8 players he can count on every night. Woody only had 6. And even that was reduced to 4 and 2 possibles, on those nights Bibby and Marvn struggled.
Drew needs a solid 8.
terrell
September 21st, 2010
5:53 pm
Shoulda been asking Marvin what in the heck happened to him all year long.
SteveW
September 21st, 2010
6:02 pm
Statistically, Joe Smith was better than Josh Powell last year. But since Joe is 35 and Powell 28, I would assume that Powell will be better this year than Joe would have been, all things being considered. But I’m not sure he would have been better last year – kinda doubt it. And I guess I don’t understand the meaning of rotational player – I thought Joe played almost every game he was healthy, especially in the 1st half of the games. He was at least semi-rotational I guess.
I do think, if he’s healthy, Etan will be a vast upgrade over RandMo. Even with Etan at 32 and RandMo at 24.
On Smoove, I hope he can take the pounding with less weight room time. But if he continued to bulk up, the high flying Josh was history in a couple of years. No way to add that much weight to the frame, and continue the circus act.
SteveW
September 21st, 2010
6:06 pm
Big Ray – Cosign your last post on Smoove and Al.
terrell
September 21st, 2010
6:09 pm
Joe Smith is not better than Powell. Statistics lie. And plus, Powell played behind Odom, Gasol, and Bynum. I can see why he didn’t get much burn. Joe Smith on the other hand, couldn’t get time behind Smoove and Zaza freakin Pachulia.(Some of that was Woody’s fault though.) I’d still take Powell regardless. Maybe he learned a thing or two from the Zen? At least give him a chance before you bash..
Big Ray
September 21st, 2010
6:10 pm
Steve W ,
Thanks.
On Joe Smith, I don’t know what his health was like throughout the season, but I do know he played twice as much in Cleveland as he did here. He looked out of joint and out of rhythm every time he stepped on the court for us, except for a few games. He’d look good, then all of the sudden his butt was back on the bench. Puzzling…
Josh Powell had a very small role with the Lakers, and it’s understandable as to why, what with Lamar Odom being a super sixth man when Bynum was healthy enough to play. I hope he’s a bit more of a contributor for us.
Northcyde ,
True, you have been saying that all along. Gotta agree with it, too.
northcyde
September 21st, 2010
6:11 pm
No doubt on the Horforf being tougher comment. Smoove and JJ too, for that matter. But if Horford wants to be the REAL leader of this team, he’s going to have to start being the toughest S.O.B. on the court, regardless of who we play.
I personally don’t want to see anymore comments made by him about what position he prefers to play. We all know he’s a PF and prefers to play that position. But in ATL, he’s a CENTER, so he needs to start taking on that mentality. His mind needs to be in a warror mindset, when going up against the bigger and stronger guys.
If he has to download some old Pastor Troy songs into his iPod to get him “ready for war”, then dangit, that’s what he needs to do.
Big Ray
September 21st, 2010
6:11 pm
I wouldn’t say statistics lie. They are, after all, just factual numbers.
It’s all in what you’re trying to use them to either prove or understand.
Big Ray
September 21st, 2010
6:12 pm
Co-sign again, Northcyde .
Actually, gotta give you the credit on the toughness speeches. You were saying that about Josh and Al during the playoffs last season. I remember!
Big Ray
September 21st, 2010
6:13 pm
I personally don’t want to see anymore comments made by him about what position he prefers to play. We all know he’s a PF and prefers to play that position. But in ATL, he’s a CENTER, so he needs to start taking on that mentality. His mind needs to be in a warror mindset, when going up against the bigger and stronger guys.
If he has to download some old Pastor Troy songs into his iPod to get him “ready for war”, then dangit, that’s what he needs to do.
Ha haaa, yes, I like it!
Grandad
September 21st, 2010
6:14 pm
HawkZ
*Skill Polishing -or- [skill learning] is “more” important!
Who cares if he looks purty?
It’s about production, correct?
I’m certain he did not completely eschew wgt. training.
Most likely his off-season was about emphasis.
I’m guessin’?
JeJe
September 21st, 2010
6:22 pm
I can’t believe we didn’t sign Stackhouse last year. The guy costs nothing and can score very well. He WANTED to come here
Rod from College Park
September 21st, 2010
6:24 pm
Marvin Williams speaking about this team in the Orlando series and what we as a team needed to do is a joke. He needs to stop focusing on team, and focus on him. I have to agree with a previous poster, Joe and Marvin are not guys we need to hear from. Joe is Joe, and he will do what he does. Marvin is a non-factor on this team. Let us hear from Josh and Al. Actually, people on here bash him, but I never heard Mo Evans not tell the truth when the cameras and mic’s were out in his face. Let’s hear from him.
Marvin’s numbers in the Orlando Series:
32mpg, 30%FG, O%FG, 4.5RPG, 0.3APG, 6.3ppg
I have heard a lot from him from the Sekou interview, and this article, and he seems like a guy with a good head on his shoulders, but I am an Atlanta Hawks fan, and I want to know if he is going to be a liability on the floor for another year. Stop working on a degree, and take a ballet class to help your balance. Stop being a nice guy and be aggressive. Train with a UFC guy, and grow some balls. Stop working out at North Carolina in the summers with friends, and go learn how to finish at the rim with smaller guys checking you. Get in the weight room and get stronger so guys like Brandon Jennings and Jameer Nelson in the playoffs can’t stop you from finishing at the rim.
northcyde
September 21st, 2010
6:25 pm
Josh Powell is better than Joe Smith based on what? Some youtube clips of him knocking down jumpers? Cause Kobe said that he practices hard?
Let’s just keep expectations on Powell EXTREMELY LOW, as to not be mad at him when he doesn’t crack the rotation.
The only thing I remember of Josh Powell last year, was Ty Lawson dunking on him and DJ Mbenga . . at the same time.
Youtube “Ty Lawson dunk”, and see Mr. Powell and his defense in action.
truly1
September 21st, 2010
6:26 pm
I am glad MC you started a new blog because people or one person is filling it up with mess I hope you can catch who it is who is doing it. It makes you not want to blog
The Truth
September 21st, 2010
6:37 pm
Even though Etan was the 13th signing, I think he is more what the Hawks need as an additional player if healthy. If he can regain his form, he could better compliment Al Horford then even Zaza. He is the only big man we have, from a defensive prospective that is athletic and stout with a mean streak. Al has the athletics but lacks the meanness and is not stout. Zaza is stout but lacks the athletics with a euro-meanness only. Collins is just stout.
jason
September 21st, 2010
6:53 pm
has anybody noticed but in 2k11 trailer in “jordan moments” he looked alot heftier than he did 4 months ago
jason
September 21st, 2010
6:57 pm
Cavs trading mo williams?
Ken Strickland
September 21st, 2010
6:59 pm
KEVINM-From the previous blog. It doesn’t matter what OFF you run, in order for it to work successfully you must have the proper players, with the proper attitude and skills to make it work. We’ve seen the jealousy, selfishness, lack of discipline and maturity on full display with the Wizard players over the last couple of yrs.
I’m not certain anything will work there until they get rid of the cancer(s) on that team and change the atmosphere and their approach. They traded away AJamison, the only key player on their roster that can even come close to matching the talent, maturity and focus of Hawk players like JJ, Horford, JaCrawford, Zaza etc.
Some of our fans complain about us not having enough leadership on our team. But if you think we’re lacking in leadership, what would you say about the Wizards?
DRMARYB-It was stated by HC LDrew, and confirmed by JJ, Teague and JaCrawford, that they learned and often ran the MOTION OFF during practice, and they liked it. I’m certain what they ran was only a portion of what the full OFF entails.
If a defender lags behind, or is lazy in fighting over a pick, we’ll have an open player and scoring opportunity. On the other hand, if the defender is aggressive and overplays, or anticipates, like a lot of teams successfully did against Bibby, he now has the option of back cutting to the basket. JSmoove appeared to be the only player with the option of back cutting to the basket when he was being overplayed. He was certainly the only Hawk player I saw do it more than once or twice.
ryan
September 21st, 2010
7:00 pm
Mello is Jersey bound hook up with Jay Z so his wife can start her career i just don’t why you would give up Favors when you can just sign Mello as free agent after the season. As for the Hawks adding Stackhouse would good as leadership roll this might be decent team . GO HAWKS .
I Heart Atlanta
September 21st, 2010
7:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaDIjukIaWc
Season Preview in HD
Can’t Wait for the Season it’s Almost Here!!!
R.I.P. Kenny McKinley
JSS
September 21st, 2010
7:14 pm
@ Big Ray…
Thank you so much for addressing the Marvin quote at 5:20PM. My jaw hit the floor when I came across it. I just can not believe that even the most optimistic person can not overlook not performing better on that kind of a stage. Shocking disconnect, what can pull these to their true reality?
Fundamentals
September 21st, 2010
7:22 pm
Marvin seemed content with his progress, happy to be enjoying school and happy to give back. He seems to have his long term future in perspective and that community and personal growth come before basketball. Granted that’s all IMHO. He’s a good kid. I just wonder if basketball truly is his passion, or just a means to an end.
As for his comments about being more aggressive I like that. When he’s been healthy and aggressive he’s shown glimpses of greatness. Like him or not he’ll flourish if inspired in the right system. Maybe that’s somewhere in the NW, but I honestly hope to see the kid break out here this season.
Fundamentals
September 21st, 2010
7:25 pm
We’re here at this stage and we’ve been here all summer because we absolutely love this team. We might disagree, we might have our own agendas, but it’s time to unite as a fanbase and move forward with what we have.
Our roster is set people. Unless Crawford speaks out when camp opens you can get on board or get off. The wagon’s pullin out. Are you on it 100% or only when the good times roll.
I’ll be here for the good, the bad and even the ugly…cause I love this team! Take us to the promised land Hawks. It’s time you realized the gifts God has given you!
Senator Blutarski
September 21st, 2010
7:35 pm
I love the Hawks–sure, I didn’t like the way the Orlando series went down. I think L.D. is going to make a positive difference. Looking forward to seeing players like Horford, Josh, Marvin, Teague develop further. Looking for Joe Johnson to get “the eye of the tiger.” Hopefully, Jamal will not regress with the contract stuff up in the air. Jordan Crawford sounds like he has the potential to be “instant offense.” Josh Powell isn’t an all-star but I understand he’s a pretty tough-nosed player and knows what it’s like to be on a Phil Jackson championship team. It would be nice to see Etan add some toughness off the bench. Bibby can’t defend or drive, but still can contribute a veteran point guard presence and get hot with the 3 point shot. It would be nice to see Zaza bring his game up another notch–he’s still pretty young, hope he hasn’t peaked.
Fundamentals
September 21st, 2010
7:40 pm
ZaZa needs a defined role and defined minutes to engage. In Woody’s dog house he dissappeared. Hopefully LD can harness ZaZa’s energy and get the most out of him. He’s actually a terror on the offensive glass when inspired. Think of the bruises he and Etan could leave if they get in together on a regular basis. No more soft middle for us. Maybe they could play some Bruise Brothers music as they enter the game or something.
MC – Where’s our photo of Twin looking like a Single?
Macaroni Tony
September 21st, 2010
7:40 pm
Jordan Crawford: http://espn.go.com/nba/feature/video/_/id/5544081/
Blast
September 21st, 2010
7:53 pm
Like Stackhouse, but same thing happened last year. Stack played well for Bucks last season. Why didn’t Bucks resign him?
Reid Adair
September 21st, 2010
8:11 pm
How nice that Joe Johnson is sure a second-round blowout won’t happen again. He better step up because he (along with his max contract) is the reason why no other signficant free-agent moves could be made.
Fundamentals
September 21st, 2010
8:19 pm
Everyone is aware that Joe has a 124 million pound cross on his back.
Stack wanted to play for us last year. He’s unsigned now to see where his best fit will be. Guarantee he signs with some sort of contender by Feb.
SteveW
September 21st, 2010
8:36 pm
Terrell – Joe Smith and Josh Powell played almost identical minutes per game, and almost an identical number of games. Joe’s stats were better. I hope Josh comes in and develops great – I think it was a good signing for a number of reasons – 2 rings, good work ethic, good locker room guy – but definitely not even a very good NBA player as of yet. Joe was a legit #1 draft pick back in the day. Joe was a better ball player last year, just a fact. Not bashing on Powell, hope he becomes KG2, but we’ll see. What do you expect for the vet minimum?
SteveW
September 21st, 2010
8:38 pm
Been sayin’ Marvin doesn’t have enough basketball time in. Only played 1 year in college, and that was as a PT player off the bench. I agree, I’m not sure basketball is his first love. Great guy though, and wants to help the community, stays out of trouble, so I’m sure ASG likes that.
SteveW
September 21st, 2010
8:40 pm
Man, one sportswriter is saying ATL doesn’t make the playoffs this year, wow!
2 FOR JOHN DREW
September 21st, 2010
8:52 pm
Oh where, oh where are you ….. DrMaryb ?
Genius
September 21st, 2010
8:59 pm
JC2 will be starting point guard 10 games in.
Fundamentals
September 21st, 2010
9:13 pm
Hopefully some home cookin will do what the NW does for Marvin. I don’t think Powell will be a starter for any team, but he can play a role. He can play his role. Strond D, Strong boardwork and getting points when we need them. We don’t need All-Stars on this team. We need real TEAM oriented ROLE players. Minimum or not, he has value that is vital to our performance in the playoffs.
This goes for all 14 men! ROLES people ROLES THAT HELP THE TEAM WIN! Not roles to become a media darling or All Star.
Big Ray
September 21st, 2010
9:28 pm
JSS ,
Good thing we can still type with dislocated jaws, huh?
I did not want to hear that from Marvin. And I have to agree with Rod from CP on what we need to hear/see from Marvin.
Yeah, I know. I just agreed with Rod. On Marvin. Cue the Apocalypse….
Macaroni Tony
September 21st, 2010
9:28 pm
what’s the link or the sport writer that says the Hawks want make the playoffs?
Fundamentals
September 21st, 2010
9:46 pm
Rod’s getting at what is Marvin’s focus. School, community and being a kid who’s got it made or winning. His lack of weight room focus points to his summer exploits. Sure he worked out at UNC, but I bet it wasn’t like Jordan did. We’ll know what his summer held once the season starts. If he’s not ready LD will have to do what’s best for the team and play someone else.
KevinM
September 21st, 2010
9:49 pm
KenS-on the Wizards not succeeding………doesn’t their success look similar to what we have achieved so far in this current run? We now have promoted from within so apparently management thinks there are things not yet achieved by the current roster. The Wizards just got to a point where they couldn’t go further with their current lineup. They digressed after that, so a lesson is finding your limits.
Now my interest in Eddie Jordan is based on what LD learned as an assistant with him and him implementing this Princeton offense. I gotta think that since we were winning last year with an iso approach, it is still a question as to whether this team will adapt and improve.
My concern was more with the Jordan hire in Philly where the coach had success at his previous stop. The Philly bunch took less than a year to revolt and get that system out of there.
It is all about the players and the accountability they level on each other. Is there something being said where this team has guys who motivate the others regularly? So far, all I’ve heard is small snippets about last year and no one presents a reasoning for the results. I have not heard anything said about what they did wrong and how it was going to be rectified.
Their buyin makes it hopeful that they’ve learned their lesson. All the good vibes that the coach is showing (what else would you expect?) still has to be proven.
Until they do something that shows they are special, they will continue to catch the grief and Marvin can continue to say “Dude, you saw what happened, you tell me”.
I expect more of the same this year from this roster.
Fundamentals
September 21st, 2010
9:54 pm
Kevin M: But if they could truly buy in and maximize talent, what would you say then? I’ve been waiting since the early 80’s. What’s new?
moboman
September 21st, 2010
10:00 pm
LD has decisions to make on who plays where and when and for how many minutes, and who will get PT off the bench and in what positions. How he handles that will decide how successful the season is.
SteveW
September 21st, 2010
10:15 pm
Tony Macaroni – here is the link predicting no playoffs for the Hawks – says we’re not even in the top 10 in the East any longer –
http://www.slamdunkcentral.com/2010/09/17/if-the-nba-playoffs-were-to-start-today/
Fundamentals – again, I’m not hating on Josh Powell, glad the Hawks signed him. This all started when someone said how can we not say that Josh Powell is an upgrade over Joe Smith. Already posted numerous times now and in the past that this was just not the case last year. I’m hoping he is this year. Facts are just facts however.
SteveW
September 21st, 2010
10:26 pm
P.S. – I’m a native Georgian, so I am a Josh Powell fan regardless of where he plays BTW. I was rooting against the Lakers all last year, but still was a fan of Josh Powell. But he still didn’t play as well as Joe Smith did for the Hawks last year. Sorry, wish he did. And I think LD sees something in his jumpshot that the motion offense can use. But he is a terrible rebounder – his rebounding ranked below Marvin in at least 1 statistical category – and that stat based on average Boards per minute and not that Marvin played more minutes or anything.
And don’t give me this stuff that Powell played behind Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Gasol and Bynum were hurt for long stretches last year (both missed 17 games), and the Lakers needed JP to step up – he just didn’t. And remember, I’m rooting for the guy! But calling ugly facts pretty names, or lying to ourselves doesn’t change the facts. I’ll be rooting for him like crazy this year – hope he breaks out big time.
Macaroni Tony
September 21st, 2010
10:34 pm
The Rest: Charlotte and Atlanta, two playoff teams from last season, ready to take dramatic falls. Did they improve? Why not? Forget them. They will be sorry come mid-April.
Macaroni Tony
September 21st, 2010
10:39 pm
this article is not based on facts, its just based on likes and dislikes. I see that this writer doesn’t like the Hawks. I would say that we would be fine, but I don’t see Chicago nor the Bucks being better than us. I’m ready for some basketball.
Hmmm
September 21st, 2010
11:09 pm
Mark Price > Mike Bibby
Give the man a contract. Make him come out of retirement!
Nash
September 21st, 2010
11:10 pm
I think having stackhouse come in means that the Hawks can move a guard they have like ten of them. These means that there will be another scorer on the bench. Bibby, Crawford, and Stack could cover the lose of Crawford. I hope the Hawks keep him and a D leaguer instead of one of the powerfowards they picked up or kept on the roster.