Atlanta Hawks: Pape Sy in the fold (Update: Sy and Sund comments)
It’s finally official: Pape Sy, Atlanta’s second-round draft pick in June, has signed with the Hawks after securing a buyout from French club Le Havre. Sy’s three-year contract is fully guaranteed for 2010-11 at the rookie minimum of $473,604.
It should be noted that for all the heat ASG takes for the perception that they clutch their wallets too tightly, it is believed the Hawks contributed about $125,000 on top of the salary to buy out the contract of a long-term prospect. You can tell L.D. is really high on Sy, so the Hawks spent some cash to get him over here now so they can start developing him.
“We sat down with [the owners] and told them we saw [Sy] in Summer League and we liked him and we wanted to get him in here as a developmental guy for the future,” Rick Sund said today at Philips. “We talked about the buyout, and they had no problem with that.”
It’s a good personal story for Sy, 22, who paid his own way to work out for the Hawks and was virtually unknown in scouting circles when Atlanta drafted him. He said he never lost faith that he’d end up with the Hawks this season even as negotiations with Le Havre dragged on for weeks.
“I am very proud,” Sy said. “It means a lot for me. I really want to play with them and win with them.”
Sy, 6-7, projects as a point guard for the Hawks. Unless injuries hit the Hawks, Sy most likely won’t earn minutes this season. But the Hawks believe he can better develop by practicing with the team and perhaps spending some time in the D-League rather than play another year for Le Havre, where he averaged 14 minutes per game last season.
Sund said the Hawks most likely will stick with 14 players for training camp since the roster is set and they want to get in as much work as possible for young players Teague, Jordan Crawford and Sy. Camp opens Sept. 28.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
347 comments Add your comment
JSS
September 16th, 2010
10:39 pm
Sorry for the omissions, too busy watching that frantic last 30 seconds!
Ken Strickland
September 16th, 2010
10:40 pm
NAJEH-surely you don’t think RSund makes all personnel decisions without the approval of HC LDrew and the ASG. It was LDrew who decided he wanted to draft Pape Sy, buy out his contact and have him on the roster this yr. RSund’s responsibility was to facilitate his wishes, which he did successfully.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 16th, 2010
10:51 pm
Grand-Daddy
You can’t hold out for money – You will ruin team chemistry!
Now, tell your Agent to work this out.
Grandad
September 16th, 2010
11:05 pm
Mary Ellen
Chemistry no problem.
I’d just call out ET on day one just to show everybody…
who’s the real bad ass.
After that they would all fall in line.
“Chemistry 101″ – [Professor G-dad]
richbrave
September 16th, 2010
11:10 pm
Grandad
September 16th, 2010
10:39 pm
richbrave
How well does Washington like Yi?
Any chance they would consider trading him?
Really, I don’t really know how the org. fewels. They did pick him up, but I think the fans will think less of JIANLIAN as time goes on. Off what he’s done in a N. J. uni against les boules, you can have him for a – bag of chips, or b – KWAME BROWN. Just filling out the roster IMHO of course.
I’m convinced the new owner doesn’t want to improve this season so the WIZ can go back into the draft next June for another top three pick. We seem to be building from the back-court in rather than the ASG’s method of construction from the front-court out.
richbrave
September 16th, 2010
11:11 pm
Grandad
September 16th, 2010
10:39 pm
richbrave
How well does Washington like Yi?
Any chance they would consider trading him?
P.S.
Seriously flawed philosophy in my opinion.
Grandad
September 16th, 2010
11:12 pm
Mary Ellen
I forgot to mention one thing.
When I said – “I’d call out ET on day one”
I meant, call him out -&- challenge him to a spelling bee!
Grandad
September 16th, 2010
11:17 pm
richbrave
Thanks! Been wonderin’ about him.
He seems as if he would be a fit in LD’s offensive system.
(a Big that can face up and stretch the floor)
Plus add some length to our front ct.
richbrave
September 16th, 2010
11:31 pm
grandad:
Trade? We could seriously us some solid front-court help especially as BLATCHE is already hurt. I fould YI to be soft ala AJ. Again just my opinion. McGEE is still learning the dimensions of a b-ball court. Man, he’s gonna’ get his education this year. Wait ’till BIG AL takes it to the rack on him.
Melvin
September 16th, 2010
11:42 pm
Not sure if any one posted this link yet but Josh got a little camera time… LOL
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-A-bunch-of-young-guns-talk-about-Michael-?urn=nba-270190
JSS
September 16th, 2010
11:43 pm
@ Richbrave…
Has anyone walked up to Randolph Morris sucka line yet?
Big Ump
September 16th, 2010
11:51 pm
Ken S.
How everything going with you? Your treatments going okay? I don’t always agree with you, but I keep you in my prayers. Keep fighting tough dude.
SWAT Native
September 16th, 2010
11:57 pm
Props to the Dream for a great season, even if they didn’t win it all. The Seattle Storm were by far the best team in the WNBA all year long and a team that many thought couldn’t be beaten. Although the Dream got swept, they lost all three games by a total of 7 or 8 points. I’m proud of them. Let’s see what happens next year.
Najeh, you’re right about the level of play being much better than people realize. I was there when the Dream closed out the Liberty and I was amazed at the battle between Angel McCoughtry and Cappy Poindexter. It reminded me of Dominique going against Jordan in the old Omni.
BTW, it seemed like half the Hawks team was there: Al, Marvin, Teague, JC2. Even Billy Knight was there. Also Dan Reeves and John Abraham. And, the Storm had a nice group of fans that traveled to be at the game, just like the Liberty did.
Only posting this here because there’s no dream blog, which is a real shame. Even GA State has a blog, and they’ve played 2 games in their history.
SteveW
September 17th, 2010
12:35 am
O’Brien – Trust me, I know Smoove right now is better at 4 than 3 – but i have been hammered on this blog for stating that opinion – that’s the reason i said by signing Damp it would please some of you (some of the other bloggers), not me, by making more time for Smoove at 3. Not going to get into that discussion again, been rehashed a ton.
KenS – I think MC reported that LD wanted Shaq – and he’s bigger and slower than Damp. So I wouldn’t read to much into what we might think LD wants. If Damp has the correct skill set for LD and the right attitude/locker room presence, I wouldn’t be surprised if LD wanted him also. If we’re just going to make teams play to our strengths, why did we sign Etan rather than Josh Boone, Amundson, of even that other big from California – 7-0 240 Elson? Why didn’t we make more of a run for Tolliver? We brought in Etan for interior Defense. We brought in Collins for interior Defense. Why wouldn’t we bring in Damp for interior defense – he’s better than either Collins or Etan.
Ken Strickland
September 17th, 2010
12:44 am
BIG UMP-thanks for asking. I got another hormone injection, but this time I’m having the side effects they warned me about. Man, those hot flashes won’t let me get a good nights sleep. I’m constantly kicking the covers off and then pulling them back on. I’ll probably have to decide what final treatment I’ll use when I go back on DEC 1.
While I’ve maintained a positive attitude as a way of life, this latest battle has caused me to take it to another level. I have no doubt it’s had an influence on the way I view LDrew and the Hawks. My excitement about this yrs Hawk team is due to the fact we are going to:
1-play the way this team was originally designed to play,
2-have a structured OFF/DEF, and approach,
3-give mins and opportunities to our best players, not the HC’s favorites,
4-consider changes and/or adjustments when called for,
5-adopt the philosophy of making other teams adjust to us, instead of the other way around,
6-utilize more than a 6-7 man rotation,
7-play 1st and 2nd yr players, rather than make excuses for not doing so,
8-make players accountable, rather than making excuses,
9-finish the season playing the same uptempo style of OFF/DEF we played when we started the season.
SteveW
September 17th, 2010
12:54 am
I have just been convince that we need the Heat to sign Dampier. Why? Because they already have 14 players under guranteed contracts. Damp would be 15, the maximum. The Heat would have to waive DeSean Butler, a projected lottery pick before he tore his ACL in the NCAA tournament. He is a 2nd round pick (12th). The Hawks could sign him, let him play D-League for a year, help his knee rehab, and we have a great replacement for Mo’ next year on the cheap – only about $600,000.00 per year. Good risk. If he’s as good as many think, he would take Marvin’s job in a couple of years.
SteveW
September 17th, 2010
12:55 am
“convince” should be convinced in the above post
northcyde
September 17th, 2010
1:09 am
Haha . . . another rebuttal ( this time to Big Ray ) is gobbled up by the blog monster. I guess if I mention the word “ownership” or “fans” too many times, that’s a no-go
@ SteveW . . . that’s creative thinking, something this management group got a grade of F in. I would love to make a move like that, if Butler became available. He was a top 20 talent before he got hurt.
Does the “monster” eat this?
SteveW
September 17th, 2010
1:24 am
KenS – Man, really can’t find anything I disagree with on the 12:44am post. I think my enthusiasm is tempered more with how the East has improved rather than the Hawks going backwards. I actually think the Hawks will have a better team this year, but may have a worse record because the East has improved overall. Of course the Cavs have crashed and burned it looks like…
The playoffs are all about matchups. Read the Celtic blogs – they are deathly afraid of playing the Hawks in the playoffs, because they don’t match up well. Weaknesses and tendencies are exploited, utilized and magnified in the post season. Hope:
1) Teague develops enough
2) Marvin shocks us
3) Limited injuries
4) And we play tough enough inside
To make a run at this thing. Why not a championship ATL? Why do we want to play for good and not great?
As a side note – Joe Smith played better stat wise than Josh Powell last year. Hope JP develops. Drew said he liked his shot, meaning he might be well suited for the Motion O.
Acie Laws per last year was 16.1 if I’m reading that right. Wow, that’s really good. I wouldn’t mind having Acie back as Teague’s reserve or Shelden back as a 4th or 5th big for that matter.
Elson’s off the board, the Jazz signed him. I’m joking people…
Najeh Davenpoop
September 17th, 2010
2:16 am
“It was LDrew who decided he wanted to draft Pape Sy, buy out his contact and have him on the roster this yr. RSund’s responsibility was to facilitate his wishes, which he did successfully.”
Where does it say this?
dap01
September 17th, 2010
7:43 am
I have to give it to Sund for having a great offseason. With little or no effort he has been able to fill out a roster. It takes a lot of skill to do the minimum. Also, congrats on the JJ negiotations. How did you ever convince JJ to sign for only $20 million more than the next highest bid?
Ken, your points are exactly what we need but how do we know that LD will actually try all of those obvious points that you speak about?
I love the Hawks but I feel like I am grasping at straws when trying to find something to be excited about coming in to this season. We have ownership and management that does the minimum. There is NO talk of becoming champions.
wordsmithtom
September 17th, 2010
9:16 am
Powell and Etan are improvements over Smith/Morris. Both bring hustle. SY is a project and no factor, but Jordan Crawford could be a real prize. Time will tell. JJ we had no choice, considering the market.
I continue to believe the Hawk players wore down due to ill use of the bench and knowing ISO offense was not getting it done. Worked for the guards; not so much for the big men. Also, Woody seemed to be playing for his job, not for the team. If a big got 2 fouls, he sat. This year, we can afford to foul someone out.
So many people call LD a “cheap” add as coach. I think they’re wrong. He has a lot of experience as a sub, and as a player. If, as he has stated, we run and play motion offence in half court, then this team will be better. I’m in total agreement that the team is better than it showed the end of last year. No need to blow it up.
IF, LD’s plan does not bear fruit by mid year, it will be obvious I’m wrong and a shakeup of the core will be a good idea.
Ken Strickland
September 17th, 2010
9:57 am
STEVEW-LDrew and JTeague were together throughout last season, and he saw him from an entirely different perspective than MWoodson. Woodson saw him based strictly on his bias against rookie PG, and didn’t want him running his team and/or replacing MBibby, no matter what. Woodson looked at what he felt Teague didn’t do well, and used that as his excuse for keeping him in his place, so to speak.
LDrew obviously saw what he could do, and made that his focus, which is why he announced shortly after being hired he was giving Teague a primary role, as well as every opportunity to win the starting PG slot. To me, LDrew made it clear he feels Teague has all of the tools to successfully run his uptempo motion OFF. Also, the fact he hasn’t acquired another vet PG to back him up further proves to me he’s supremely confident in his ability to get it done.
As far as Marvin is concerned, only those with a personal bias against him refuse to believe he’s capable of getting it done. They focus on last yrs low production, and conviently forget he’s posted averages of 14.8PPG, 6.3RPG, 1.9APG, .6BPG & 1SPG. LDrew isn’t going to do the Woody and ignore him as an OFF weapon, or insist on playing him major mins if he’s not producing. Marvin was a victim of EXCLUSION, from an OFF perspective.
As we all know, there’s nothing anyone can do about injuries. As far as us playing tough enough inside DEF, we first have to play tougher DEF on the perimeter. Even with our interior and exterior DEF problems last yr, we managed to match the World Champion Lakers in PPG allowed. I feel we’ll be much improved defensively because of the following:
1-The added quickness, speed, athleticism gained by the additions of PF JPowell, SG JoCrawford, and the committment to playing JTeague,
2-The abandonment of the switching DEF, and holding every player accountable for holding his own defensively against his opponent,
3-having each player stay with his assignment, rather than switching off, will allow our frontline players to remain near the basket and maintain good rebounding and DEF position,
4-Not starting and/or giving major mins to players that are DEF liabilities, especially perimeter players,
5-Expanding our rotation to more than 6-7 players will reduce overall fatigue and allow us to play more aggressive DEF when closing out gms,
6-having a HC who’s willing to hire DEF help, rather than trying to run a dictatorship and be the jack of all trades and master of none,
7-having the willingness and ability to employ multiple approaches and concepts to playing DEF, will definitely help us play better interior and exterior DEF.
As far as Eastern Conference teams over taking the Hawks due to their projected improvements is concerned, haven’t we had these same concerns and heard the same story for the last 3 yrs? And despite all of these concerns about the vast improvement of these teams, on paper, haven’t the Hawks managed improve each of those yrs, and stay, or pull ahead of, all Eastern Conference teams but Cleveland and Orlando?
DAP01-The answer to your question is WHY WOULDN’T HE! Over a 6yr period, especially the last 2-3yrs, he’s certainly witnessed first hand the results of not doing it. After all, didn’t Sund and the ASG hire him to do the things Woodson couldn’t or wouldn’t do? LDrew knows how lucky he is compared to Woodson, in that he gets to take over a very talented and versatile playoff caliber team, rather than a rebuilding project. He knows the individual problems and strengths of the players and team first hand, and has the respect and support of the players.
ALL OF THIS SPELLS SUCCESS TO ME, WE JUST DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH SUCCESS IT SPELLS, BUT WE’LL CERTAINLY FIND OUT SHORTLY.
northcyde
September 17th, 2010
9:57 am
Ill use of the bench? The bench was pathetic last year, which is why people wanted solid upgrades in the offseason.
I’ve always found it strange that people would say that Woody was coaching to “save his job”, and not for the good of the team. You save your job by winning games. Those bench players that people wanted to see, lost a ton of leads all year.
We had 6 players post a positive +/- number on the court last season.
Six.
For a team that won 50+ games, that stat is absolutely incredible. That means that our bench couldn’t even win garbage time battles vs other teams on most nights.
Grandad
September 17th, 2010
9:59 am
wordsmithtom
Well said!
ILL-Logical
September 17th, 2010
10:26 am
Conrats to the Dream-the players , coaches,staff and owner- for a great season! And congratulations to the the fans and supporters who shared this season’s journey with the team. The ATL can and will support a winner.And a special recognition to those Hawks, like Josh, who consistently supported the team and demonstrated their connection to the city of Atlanta. Here’s hoping that all of Atlanta’s teams build on the Dream’s success here in the city of Peaches and Dreams.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 17th, 2010
10:34 am
Ken Strickland
Said it best! When he said:
“3-having each player stay with his assignment, rather than switching off, will allow our frontline players to remain near the basket and maintain good rebounding and DEF position,”
That will be the most significant improvement on defense,
along with Coach Conner designing a man to man scheme.
But like Ken said, we shall all see soon enough.
northcyde
September 17th, 2010
10:48 am
The best thing the WNBA ever did, was to change the 30 second shot clock to a 24 second shot clock, and to go to 4 quarters. Up until about 2006, the WNBA resembled the college game in its style of play. But those two changes sped the game up and enabled the more talented women players to really showcase their skills.
Like I said last week, the Dream vs the Storm was the NBA equivalent of the 91 Bulls vs the Lakers or Celtics of the mid-80s. As great as Jordan was when he won his first title, he and that Bulls team would have very little chance of beating those Laker and Celtic teams during the mid-80s.
Rod from College Park
September 17th, 2010
11:00 am
“As far as Marvin is concerned, only those with a personal bias against him refuse to believe he’s capable of getting it done. They focus on last yrs low production, and conviently forget he’s posted averages of 14.8PPG, 6.3RPG, 1.9APG, .6BPG & 1SPG. LDrew isn’t going to do the Woody and ignore him as an OFF weapon, or insist on playing him major mins if he’s not producing. Marvin was a victim of EXCLUSION, from an OFF perspective.”
Some of us who don’t like his game also look at his career playoff averages of 26.7mpg, 39%FG, 25%3P, 4.2rpg, 0.8APG, and 8.4ppg. We realize that a guy who was drafted to be one of the best players on the team, is not even close. We also realize that if you were to plug any NBA or D-league small forward in Marvin’s spot, you would easily get similar or better production. We also are not stupid enough to believe that Mike Woodson was the reason that Marvin has not become an above average NBA player. Mike Woodson actually gave Marvin more opportunity than any other NBA coach would have, and Marvin is part of the reason that Mike Woodson is sitting at home without an NBA job right now. My opinion is that it is very hard to exclude somebody who plays over 30 minutes a game. Have you ever thought that maybe his teammates excluded him, while he was on the floor, because he gave them no reason to believe that he could make a play?
Ken Strickland
September 17th, 2010
11:38 am
ROD FROM CP-You can remain as negative and pessimistic towards Marvin and make an issue of where he was drafted all you want, but he certainly didn’t draft himself. He certainly didn’t make himself a #3, then a #4, than a #5 scoring option in a very unstructured and limited ISO, one on one dominated OFF. That’s simply not his strength.
Obviously MWoodson had no problem with Marvin and his production, and it seems new HC LDrew has no problems with his potential to be productive in his new OFF. So, when all is said and done, your feelings about Marvin and what you feel he can or cannot do MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, SQUAT, NADA.
One other thing about our teams improvement. In LDrew’s motion OFF, DEF’s will have to defend the player as much as the ball. In our previous ISO dominated OFF, there was little player or ball movement, so the DEF could concentrate on both, since the ball was usually dominated by one player attacking the DEF.
Defenders will have to move their feet, concentrate on both the ball and the player they’re defending, while still trying to provide help. Horford is too good a jump shooter, within his range, for a player like DHoward to cheat too far off him. Look for JJ and Smoove to get more inside scoring opportunities. The 3pt shot will be a weapon, but not our primary weapon, like in the past.
These players, as well as RSund and the ASG, want to prove that the issues they’ve had over the last 2yrs, particularly during the playoffs, weren’t their fault. They want to prove that the ASG was wrong for not letting former GM BKnight fire Woodson, and the ASG was wrong, and that Sund and the ASG were right in finally firing Woodson and replacing him with LDrew.
KevinM
September 17th, 2010
11:59 am
I will agree that this season is about no more excuses with this core.
More of the same questions still than answers.
Its almost time for accountability.
Clyde
September 17th, 2010
11:59 am
Good season Dream. We represented Atlanta well.
Clyde
September 17th, 2010
12:01 pm
KevinM we have been saying that for 3 years.
Najeh Davenpoop
September 17th, 2010
12:07 pm
As much as I otherwise agree with Rod about Marvin, it’s not his fault the Hawks reached for him at #2 and it’s not his fault the Hawks grossly overpaid him. It IS however his fault that he regressed big time after signing that contract.
cp
September 17th, 2010
12:12 pm
Some of you will be thoroughly disappointed when you find out that Drew will not be able to get any production from the scrub bigs we signed. These guys haven’t been productive in at least 4 years but somehow they will be productive here? I like Drew and I think he will be successful but he is going to have the same issues Woody had with these scrubs on the bench. He will play them and find out soon they just don’t bring much to the table to warrant any significant pt……Sund was talking about improving the bench and all he did was add 3 scrub bigs. One who cant stay in shape and averages more fouls than rebounds and one who cant stay healthy and even when he was the past few years he still didn’t do much….I wonder if Drew will get blamed when folks find out these guys just aren’t any good.
Najeh Davenpoop
September 17th, 2010
12:13 pm
“As far as Marvin is concerned, only those with a personal bias against him refuse to believe he’s capable of getting it done. They focus on last yrs low production, and conviently forget he’s posted averages of 14.8PPG, 6.3RPG, 1.9APG, .6BPG & 1SPG. LDrew isn’t going to do the Woody and ignore him as an OFF weapon, or insist on playing him major mins if he’s not producing. Marvin was a victim of EXCLUSION, from an OFF perspective.”
You are missing the point entirely. Marvin didn’t NEED to be an offensive weapon for the Hawks last year, since they had four players who were better scorers than him. What he needed to do was take advantage of his athleticism to be a lock-down man to man defender and build on his previous improvement as a 3-point shooter to stretch the floor. Neither one requires a defined role in the offense or a ton of coaching — they just require working on your shot in the gym all summer and mentally committing yourself to stop the guy in front of you.
The difference between a good offensive system and a bad offensive system will show up primarily in the efficiency numbers of the guys who touch the ball the most on offense. If Drew’s system is as good as you say it will be, the primary beneficiaries will be Joe, Josh, Jamal, and Al, in that order. It does not, however, require a specific offensive system for a guy to be an effective role player.
If Marvin puts up the exact same numbers as last year again, except he shoots 40% from 3 and plays Bruce Bowen-caliber defense, nobody here will be complaining about him.
Najeh Davenpoop
September 17th, 2010
12:16 pm
In other words, I at least am much more disappointed in Marvin’s inability to do the dirty work consistently than I am in his inability to score consistently. Doing the dirty work doesn’t have anything to do with coaching.
Rod from College Park
September 17th, 2010
12:18 pm
“ROD FROM CP-You can remain as negative and pessimistic towards Marvin and make an issue of where he was drafted all you want, but he certainly didn’t draft himself. He certainly didn’t make himself a #3, then a #4, than a #5 scoring option in a very unstructured and limited ISO, one on one dominated OFF. That’s simply not his strength.
Obviously MWoodson had no problem with Marvin and his production, and it seems new HC LDrew has no problems with his potential to be productive in his new OFF. So, when all is said and done, your feelings about Marvin and what you feel he can or cannot do MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, SQUAT, NADA.”
Stop it with the he did not draft himself crap. He was drafted #2 for a reason, and he has not lived up to that. He actually did make himself a # 5 scoring option by not improving on the court. Horford’s rookie year, Marvin was a higher scoring option than him, but guess what, Horford worked on his game in the offseason, came back, and became a better scoring option than Marvin. Flip and Jamal were not even on the team, and they came in and became better scoring options than Marvin. How do you know what his strength is? That same unstructured and limited ISO offense is that one that he posted the great(LOL) numbers you posted. I appreciate you trying tho explain the motion offense to me, but I don’t need your explanation. I played in a motion offense, and I hate to tell you this, but I guy who can’t knock down wide open jumpshots, or run without tripping over his own feet, will not all of a sudden become a great player because he is in a motion offense. I also hate to tell you this, but your fellings about Marvin MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, SQUAT, NADA, also. At least mine are based on facts and not some magical offense.
cp
September 17th, 2010
1:10 pm
Yea its time for some to just accept that Marvin is just an average player. He doesn’t have the fire in him to want to be better. He is comfortable with being what he is. I tried to support Marvin but it became painfully clear that he wont ever get much better than what he is. I remember when Ando used to say how his ceiling would be Al Harrington. Well he hasn’t even reached that….. The last game of this past regular season showed me all I needed to see from Marvin…..Dude looked like he was an end of the bench player that game. He didn’t stand out at all despite the fact that he was playing with all guys off the bench who either didn’t play a lot or didn’t play at all. He looked like a guy you could scoop up from the NBDL. It was sad and flat out pathetic. The offense is not the problem, Marvin is the problem. He is one of the reasons I hate those solo work outs during the draft. If he would have had to go against somebody I think his lack of ball handling and inability to create his own shot would have been seen. Its crazy how a guy gets drafted that high with as little tools as he does have. He also has terrible balance. Its time to move on from the Marvin experiment and just admit he was a reach or bust however you want to label it.
Najeh Davenpoop
September 17th, 2010
1:12 pm
Wojnarowski reports that the Hawks may be a “sleeper team” for Erick Dampier.
O'Brien
September 17th, 2010
1:19 pm
cp,
That’s my thinking too. Marvin has talent and potential, but I dont know if he has the mental makeup to be a dominant player.
When he went to UNC, he was perfectly fine coming off the bench. With the Hawks, he seems perfectly fine passing up open shots, perfectly fine being #4 or 5 on offense, perfectly fine being on the bench at the end of games while Woody went with Chills, Flip, or Jamal.
He would have an open shot, and what does he do? Pass to Josh who was 18 feet away from the basket. And when Marvin gets a rebound, its like a hot potato.
But as a Hawks fan, I will root for him, and I hope he will turn it around this year.
O'Brien
September 17th, 2010
1:23 pm
Najeh,
If I’m Dampier, I’m going to Miami or Houston. Not only do they offer the opportunity for more PT, but they might offer him a 2 year deal. And Miami has a chance to be playing in the finals.
O'Brien
September 17th, 2010
1:24 pm
* Actually, scratch the dominant part. I dont know if Marvin has the mental fortitude to be an all star caliber player, or all defense player.
northcyde
September 17th, 2010
2:57 pm
It’s funny how Bibby gets ripped for even breathing, but Marvin will somehow come to life in the new offense. Had either of those guys shot the ball like they did in 08 – 09, JJ would’ve averaged close to 6 assists last year.
JJ constantly passed them the ball when wide open, and they just didn’t knock shots down. And whenever JJ had a high assist game, it almost directly correlated with Bibby and Marvn knocking down shots.
This year, I don’t want to see Marvin do everything average. I want to see him do at least one thing very well. I want him to be known for something.
- Kapono is known for being a sharpshooter
- Barnes is known for being a tough defender
- Corey Maggettee is known for being a slasher that gets to the FT line
I want Marvin to be good enough at something, to be known around the league for it.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 17th, 2010
3:50 pm
Here is an interesting article from Yahoo Sports
Thu Sep 16 12:00pm PDT
The NBA, A-through-Z: Chris Paul
By Kelly Dwyer
For the next few weeks, I’m going to pick an NBA-related subject, A-through-Z, and tell you why it’s worth your time, and why it’s one of the reasons I love covering this league. Because that’s why I wanted to become a scribe who’s paid to cover this league. Sharing the things I know and love with those of my kind. All that stuff.
Because I’m lucky enough to have your ear for however long, I don’t care that this might come off as a bit twee. A little embarrassing. A little too forthright. I’m OK with that. Hopefully you are, as well.
“C” is for “Chris Paul.”
There are so many reasons to be interested in Chris Paul. Mainly because he creates more questions than he does answers.
Is he the best point guard in the NBA?
This seems pretty cut and dry. It seems like the difference between him and Deron Williams is the difference between Kobe Bryant and Brandon Roy, but if so many people still call it a tie, or see Williams as the better player, than what are we missing? Seems like we can’t help but use the word “seems” a lot, and doubt ourselves a smidge.
Is he injury-prone?
It was a pretty silly tag, early on, just because the guy missed four games in his first year and 18 games since. And people would still bring up Paul being injury-prone and frail in the two years that followed, even if he missed only a total of six games between 2007-09. And then, right when the noise quiets down, the guy turns his ankle against Portland a year ago. Played only 45 games in 2009-10, half of them gimped-out.
Is he not only the best point guard of his generation, but well on his way toward being one of the best point guards of all time?
If you look at PER, Paul’s career mark of 25.6 is pretty astounding. Amazing, actually, considering how PER usually tends to hate point guards because it rates rebounding so highly. But can this be possible? The guy that we’re watching down in New Orleans every other night is working on a level unseen since Magic Johnson? Pace isn’t a factor — the Hornets don’t run much, and PER adjusts for pace — but is the set-up? Does Paul run an offense that basically allows him a point or assist just about every time down court?
His defense, is it great? The greatest? Just OK? He gets a ton of steals, he’s led the league twice, but we’ve also seen him lose guys. Then again, everyone loses guys these days. There isn’t a point guard in this league who isn’t made to look silly on defense a couple of times a game. Something about not being able to touch guys while you guard them.
Is he kind of a jerk? He didn’t ask for a trade this summer, but he let all sorts of people unofficially representing him toss out the idea that he’d prefer to be gonzo, nowzo. Save for the steady David West, the we-still-don’t-know Emeka Okafor and the underrated (by me, unfortunately) Marcus Thornton, the Hornets don’t have a lot of help around CP3. But then again, he signed that contract.
(notes)
(notes)
So what do we have? The man who could be the best point guard ever, playing for a team that doesn’t win much (which allows for unfair comparisons to point guards who get to play with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar), a team that he might not want to play for, but a team that we love to watch. Do we love to watch the team because of what Chris Paul is able to do with it? Sure, but we also loved it when Chris missed 37 games last season.
Is he a system guy, in spite of two, and soon-to-be three, career coaches? Or does he create that good fortune? Our eyes tell us he’s dominant, up there with LeBron and D-Wade. The stats say the same thing. So why the disconnect? Why are we left — after years of telling people how sure we were — unsure?
Because that’s what Chris Paul does, and it’s fantastic. Keeps you thinking on your feet, as a fan. Keeps you questioning yourself, your take on the game and your approach to the way you analyze things. We could be watching the greatest point guard ever, or we could be watching a mirage that has duped us all. Clearly, we’re leaning toward the former, but we’re also loving every minute of it.
Ken Strickland
September 17th, 2010
6:37 pm
ROD FROM CP-You said, “STOP THIS WITH THE HE DIDN’T DRAFT HIMSELF CRAP.” Well, are you saying he did draft himself, and everyone that says he didn’t is wrong? What does it matter what any of us think about Marvin as a player? Isn’t he going to be our starting SF, and will anything any of us think, feel, or say about him and his abilities, or lack thereof, MAKE ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE?
Please try and remember people, it’s LDrew and his staff’s the responsibility to determine who starts and which player is allowed to do what, not any of us. Here we are 2wks from the start of training camp, and some of you are still whining and complaining about who we COULDA, WOULDA, SHOULDA signed, and/or who we did sign, like it’s going to matter one damned bit.
Get over it people, THE 13 MAN 2010/2011 ATLANTA HAWKS ROSTER IS SET, LIKE IT OR NOT. LDrew will start the season with 10 of the same players Woodson managed to win 53gms, make the playoffs and get to the 2nd rd with. If you still insist on believing every other Eastern Conference team, EXCEPT THE ATLANTA HAWKS OF COURSE, will realize such drastic improvements they will automatically catapult past us, then indulge away with your fantasies.
Ken Strickland
September 17th, 2010
6:49 pm
NORTHCYDE-Since you’ve made it an issue, exactly what do you want to see from your boy Bibby? How about more scoring, assists and penetrating, creating easy scoring opportunities for others, AND ANYTHING THAT REMOTELY RESEMBLES DEF?
If Bibby actually has received more criticism than Marvin, it’s because he’s deserved it. After all, as the starting PG, isn’t he responsible for controlling the ball and the OFF, breaking down the DEF, playing strong on the ball DEF, and making certain players get the best opportunity to make their shot attempts?
QUESTION: Can you honestly say that MBibby successfully did any of these things, on either side of the ball?