Atlanta Hawks: Their Crawford conundrum

The more I think about Crawford’s play, the more I really would love to see him stay on the Hawks. To watch him do his thing on the offensive side, and then watch Powell and Thomas do their thing on the defensive side would be huge. I think Crawford’s present will make the role of JC2 and Sy that much easier, because he requires so much attention. As I’ve said the only person I would consider trading him for would’ve been Camby. But now that we have four centers on the roster, that wouldn’t be wise.

If Teague can take a step up, I really believe this will be a complete team! I feel more confident in Powell and Thomas than in Morris and Joe Smith on the defensive end. I think all of the pieces that Drew added was mainly for effort and intensity. And I love those attributes.

By the way, everyone still talks about drafting Marvin Williams. But I would much rather be the franchise that drafted Marvin over Chris Paul, instead of being Portland and watching Durant prove that he’s better than Lebron or Wade.

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Keep Crawford until a better deal comes along. It’s that simple. If he produces this season with a champions attitude, then the Hawks will look to resign him. The ball is in his court!

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If this is Crawford’s stance, then he needs new agents. Assuming he’s still looking for a Gordon, or Manu-esque deal, he’s going to get a rude awakening when next summer arrives and he finds out that he’s not going to get that kind of money from the Hawks or anyone else. He’s going to go into next summer as a 31 year old who can’t (or won’t) play defense and whose only marketable skill is being an explosive-yet-streaky scorer. Does he actually think that the Hawks are the only team that will be reluctant to pay Jamal with the CBA about to expire?

This doesn’t seem like Jamal. He just doesn’t seem like a holdout type of guy. This reeks of a player getting bad advice from his agents. Jamal is not going get paid. The question he needs to ask himself is whether he’d rather not get paid here, or not get paid somewhere else.

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Seventh!

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In my opinion, JC1 is not part of the “core”. He was a acquired as a bridge in an opportune trade by Sund without giving up any valuable assets and only acquiring his longer salary commitments. It should not be an issue, the team’s priority is signing Al. Once that happens then you can address JC1.

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i agree with the hand. i much rather watch jc than jj we need jc,he plays great & the fans love to watch him play,a must

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JC has the Hawks over a barrel. He was at least worth 10 games last year and is a bonafide big time scorer. They better pay him or this franchise will start fading fast. Folks are gonna find out this year what Woody meant to this team.

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C’mon MC. What stands between the ASG/Hawks and a successful championship run is not the ‘team chemistry’ as may be affected by the handling (or not) of the circumstances surrounding Jamal. Wish it were, but this (in my opinion) is small potatoes compared to other resounding impediments. Apart from moving other contracts that are singly – or in combination – as large as Jamal’s, we can forget him being re-signed here at anything close to his perceived market value; even if there isn’t a lockout next year.

But so what? Isn’t this conundrum tantamount to swatting at knats while being trampled by elephants? Do you really suspect that Jamal’s presence, combined with past ‘activity’ and ‘inactivity’ of ASG/Sund, will put Hawks in better (worse) position to compete with Heat/Celtics/Magic/Bulls for realistic shot at coming out of the east? More likely, it’s newsprint, but not much more. Unless (you fill in the blank) walks through the door of the Hawks locker room and suits up, we’d better get comfortable with the idea of a marginal continuation of very modest ‘organic growth’, while key competitors have gone the way of GM (i.e., genetic modification). For those hoping against hope that LD walks on water with his ‘new’ approach to offense and defense, well…

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1. Crawford does deserve an extension based on what he’s done.

2. It is not in the Hawks’ best interest to give him an extension, since they are deepest at his position and painfully shallow at SF and C.

The only logical option in this situation seems to be trading him for quality depth at SF and/or C. It’s just too bad Sund van Winkle has been sleeping all summer while the rest of the NBA has been making moves.

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What is a conondrum? Is that anything like a conundrum? The Hawks cannot spend what they do not have.

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I would have much rather seen the Hawks take care of Crawford and let Joe Johnson walk.Two years from now they will be trying like crazy to dump Joe’s contract and there will be no takers..One of the worst contracts from a teams perspective in the history of pro sports and it’s already biting them..Truth is Jamal is a better for the team than Joe..

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And Props to the ATL Dream, making the WNBA finals in their 3rd year, and playing really well (losing by 2 on the road in game 1).

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Lets go Dream!!!!!!

I wonder if they will have a parade if they win they championship.

Roll Tide!!!!!

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This isn’t the NFL- contracts in the NBA are guaranteed. Joe Johnson played in his final year of a contract even though he was a FA at the end of the year. I know – at least the Hawks offered him an extension. Why would Crawford be willing to go to another team and play out his final year? Why can’t he do that in Atlanta? I am a teacher- I work on a year to year contract every year and damn sure don’t do it with the financial security these guys do. If this was the NFL, with their non-guaranteed contract, then i would understand. The Hawks gave him an opportunity to do last year what he has never done before- play in the post-season. If he does well this year he will get his money next year and if he doesn’t play well , then he did not deserve his extension any way. He needs to show up- work his butt off- that is what professionals do

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Action speaks louder than words. If the Hawks don’t extend Jamal a contract, (or at least make him an offer) they are telling the fans “We Don’t Believe We Can Win a Championship with this Team. We Are Transitioning To a Cheaper Roster So Please Be Patient”. The Hawks will always come up short with this attitude since their main priority is staying under the salary cap. Yes they resigned JJ’s historic contract, but with little follow-through, it will be perceived as a stunt. We will not be fooled; we all know Jamal was a big part of their success story last season. They just can’t always plug-and-play players as easily as machine parts and expect continuity.

The Celtics is a good model for the Hawks as they extended a 35 yr-old Ray Allen a 2-yr 10M contract when they had every reason to pass. Especially after his Game 7 playoff performance, when he went 3-14 from the field while the Celtics faded in the fourth quarter and eventually lost. In addition to Allen’s streaky performance, he’s a poor defender who averages 16 ppg in 35 MP compared to a poor defender Crawford who averages 18 ppg in 31 MP. But the Celtics are committed to winning a championship, so they believe their best chances include resigning Allen. If they were so worried about the salary cap, they would have pursued a cheaper alternative.

Again, it is the Hawk fans responsibility to adjust their championship aspiration downward in accordance to the roster markup of the team. I would consider not re-signing a disgruntled Jamal Crawford more then a tweak downward. If that is their plans, then they have thrown in the towel for improving the team this year.

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Hawks just need to wait and see how Jordan Crawford works out. And that’s the smart move. Do an assessment of the first half of the season, and if the rookie can fill the backup SG role, trade Crawford to address any holes that need patching.

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Let’s see… the franchise just spent over $100M and a 1st round draft pick on the same position that you play and you’re at the end of your contract. That doesn’t sound like a position of leverage to me. If he becomes a “chemistry issue” then he blows the goodwill that he earned last season and turns into Ricky Davis.

By the way, given the past accomplishments (and rational forecast) of the Hawks, should they even have a “Sacred Core” of more than 2-3 players?

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Excuse me for some of the spelling errors.

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Astro, Josh, Al and Joe should be the ‘core’ ANYBODY else can be found on a craigslist with their price or OBO posted beside their name.

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I guess I’m still a “Jamal hater” by posting that. But it is what it is folks. Just like with the 36% FG he shot in the playoffs. Spin that how you want, but it is what it is.

I think it is so interesting how Jamal’s median shooting vs those 15 playoff teams, is closer to what he’s shot his entire career ( around 40% ), and shot 5% points less than what he shot throughout the entire season.

This is why the writer of that “Ball Don’t Lie” article on Jamal even questioned if this was just a “fluke” shooting season for Jamal. Only a few people have given Woody credit ( or his ISO offense credit ) for Jamal’s career best season last year. Most of you canmt bring yourself to do it though, even though the exact same thing happened with Flip.

But of course, the writer of that article is a “hater” too, even if he told the truth. ( sidenote: his articles on Melo, Iggy, and especially Monta Ellis are on point as well. The Monta article is especially good ).

Having cited all of this about Jamal, I still wouldn’t mind him back. But as I said on Hawksquawk at the time of the transaction last year, the coach MUST get Jamal out of the game when he’s cold. Like with JR Smith, you can ride Crawford when he’s hot. But when they’re cold, they’re usually ice cold, and can shoot you right out of a game.

That’s why it is so imperative that Marvin and Bibby or Teague must play well, in order to prevent Drew from playing a cold Crawford, like Woody did last season.

It’s amazing.

- Crawford shoots about 25% FG in clutch situations last year
- He shot 36% FG in the playoffs
- He played well below how JJ played vs the 15 playoff teams last year

Yet, people not only love that dude, but think he’s better than JJ and is our best offensive player?

It is what it is folks.

Jamal is a nice luxury to have when he has it going. But make no mistake . . . the dude IS EXPENDIBLE . . if we get the right player(s) back.

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Trade him to Houston for Shane Battier, and improve our perimeter defense, which would give us our backup SF ( or possibly starting one ) . . . and a potential veteran team leader.

If Drew’s offense relies more on ball movement and less on ISOs for our best players, then a guy like Battier could be used as a spot up shooter that can knock down 3s.

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Great Posts Northcyde

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If the Hawks trade Crawford they better not screw it up like the Childress deal i like the idea of Battier or Billups .

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NORTHCYDE

Jamal is clearly not a better player than JJ. Those stats do tell a story. And no doubt Woodyson’s offensive scheme was responsible for both his and Flip Murray’s production. What that showed is that Jamal is clearly better than Flip.

On a totally unrelated note, six years and $124 million gets you this in the PLAYOFFS:

2009 playoffs – 38.7 % FG, 22 % 3-point FG, 17.9 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg.
Career playoff numbers – 41 % FG, 36% 3-point FG, 16.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.6 apg.

Where as Jamal:

36% FG, 36% 3-point FG, 16.3 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 2.7 apg.

Arguing that Joe is better than Jamal is a meaningless quibble. The regular season stats are one thing. But compare the playoff stats to tell the whole story. Joe is still better. By 2% on field goals while both players are worse than 40% in the last playoffs. By two or three rebounds and two or three assists per game in the last playoffs. But the career playoff averages of Joe are a pig’s hair better than Jamal’s in his lone year in the playoffs.

Pardon me if I am more upset about giving a mediocre playoff performer the best and nicest contract in the entire league, than I am about a pile of fans thinking Jamal is better than Joe. Priorities, dude. Priorities.

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Just trade Jamal. He won’t be happy without an extension and he knows he will get a job even if he does not play well here as he did last year. Besides, the Hawks front office will not make yet another stupid contract extension mistake we hope. They already paid Williams, Pachulia, Bibby, and Johnson too much money for what they do. Why pay Jamal too. Foolishness, I say. Trade Jamal for a better small forward and not that goofy SOB they have now. If Williams could be a Disney character, he would certainly be GOOFY. Looks just like him.

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I do believe that Jamal will play hard with or without a contract extension. It benefits nothing to slack off and only hurts is future value.

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“Ramon

September 13th, 2010
2:57 pm
Northcyde, if the Hawks could get Battier for Crawford, it would be very hard not to listen to that offer. Then Evans would be allowed to play SG”.

Ramon, you really don’t want that to happen. No way does Mo do anything significant to the contributions of our current SGs. Personally, I thought Mo was brought here for defensive SF purposes. What I have seen is not what I’d thought I’d see, kinda like what I thought it might be like had Matt Barnes come here.

But Mo is a reserve and here just in case we lose Marvin for a couple of weeks. He can’t help us in long stretches though. Like others, I think swapping a JC1 for Battier would make us better overnight as we should balance out our positioning more. Because like we’ve seen in the past, we aren’t getting much out of our SF even if we need more out of him. I know, I know, the coach kept him down and limited.

Hard to be positive about this team without having to point out the obvious.

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Three’s company. Seven’s a crowd. The core is a blasted joke.

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Good point Ramon. But since I’m not a huge fan of Mo Evans, I would hope that a Mo vs Jordan showdown would occur during training camp for that backup SG spot. And if Jordan beats him out, so be it.

I personally think that Jordan’s shot creating abilities trumps what Mo can bring to the table. And if he proves to be better defensively at SG ( which Mo’s defense is overrated ), then Drew should definitely go with the new “Rook”.

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What’s sad is we could probably sign Jamal for what we gave Marvin. Yikes! And I dont know about yall, but if I was starting a team from scratch, I’d have to go with Durant. Over LJ, Wade, Kobe. All of em. This guy is something special. Can play any position on the floor. Damn near 7ft. Just a beast. Looks like Portland did it again. Could it be possible to pass on the best player of all-time TWICE? Bowie over Jordan times two. Ouch! And to think, we coulda had him as our sf if OKC woulda went with Horford. Al’s not a bad consilation prize though, unless your’re comparing him to KD.

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Ramon, Bibby, Crawford, and Zaza, for Billups and Martin? Hell yeah I’d do it. Faster than u can say……..

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It don’t really matter what the hawks do when you have power house teams like the heat,celtics and magics.Also you have a bulls team that improved and also the bucks(took hawks to 7 games without micheal redd and there center).Unless the hawks surprise me and i find that very unlikely,it will be a long time before we can talk championship.

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Grandad, what is Terry’s salary/contract looking like? I am personally believe if you trade Jamal it should be to get a PG or a SF back in the deal. I also think when moving Jamal, if they take Jamal they should also have to take Bibby or Mo!

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Ramon, if we could pull off that trade, I’d buy season tickets. lol! And they can keep Kenyan. No need for another pf. Just give us Chauncey.
Billups/Joe/Josh/Al. Hell yeah. Billups would bring out the best in all 3 of those guys..

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Ken S.

I believe Jet Terry an Iverson have residences in Atlanta.
Either would be nice in Atlanta. Iverson would fill a lot of
empty seats and he will take it to the hole hard!

And, Iverson would play for the MLE or Vet Min.

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I love Jamal Crawford. However, under no circumstances should Rick Sund fold to these contract demands. This is a nice story. It is great to see Atlanta in the fold among teams with potential contract issues on the horizon. I can only hope that Atlanta becomes a trend setter. Jamal Crawford is not a young player. He is not a started. I am against offering him any long term deal until he can consistently show that he can score and shoot at a high percentage.

We have had some really bad contracts within the organization lately. The Speedy Claxton contract was a disgrace. Mike Bibby is stealing money and Marvin Williams is GROSSLY overpaid. We need to focus upon signing Al Horford to join Joe Johnson and Josh Smith with long-term deals. We need to identify ways to unload either Bibby’s or Williams’ contracts to clear space for either a real center or better point guard.

Is Crawford special? Of course he is. However, he has to display consistently and prove that he can start at PG (something that I would highly suggest to Larry Drew).

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@ everyone posting silly trade scenarios: Do you guys really believe that Denver is going to trade Billups? As I sit here in the offfice, I wish I had the cool-aid that you guys are drinking. FYI: under no circumstances can Atlanta trade a 26 year old center (Zaza Pachulia) without having another one in the fold. We have no interior players. I am shocked when I here basketball fans in Atlanta talk about trading Pachulia. The guy is young and big…something we do not have on our roster.

At the end of the day, Crawford has the right to seek a new contract. Atlanta has a right to ask him to complete the fair contract that he signed when he was a free agent. I do not believe that many times outside of Atlanta were beating down his door last summer. He will be at camp, and he will drop 25 points on one night and score 8 the next two, before dropping 28 points on the next night. There is a reason that Atlanta showed Joe Johnson the money!

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Eagles, the Hawks do not need a backup C who can’t play defense. Zaza best attribute is he gets offensive boards. But what is his NEXT best attribute? A healthy Etan Thomas is more of what the Hawks need this season.

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The Mello thing is a dead horse its New York or bust for him Billups or Martin would be a good trade money wise .

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Offer him a $6.5M/year extension. If he is unhappy with the drop in pay (in order to keep the payroll in check) then I’d definitely take that Crawford-Battier trade.

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ken been meaning to get back with you on something you said last week but you havent been around much. you compared us to ok. we are and havent been even close to what they are doing, they bought draft picks for 7 footers this year as we sold em saying ti was for an investment in the near term. sorry, they seem to be a lot more aggressive on their management end. look at their roster lately about 4 guys at 7 foot or more with others close to it. they didnt even look twice at resigning the reject we signed for our back up big in etan thomas and they had a closer look to him than we did.

they have drafted wisely and built some size and length along with develop a young point guard that wasnt heavily pursued out of college, maybe a steal of his draft. it is the type of pick that reminds me of rondo instead of our blunders with acie and maybe teague. they achieved what we wanted in three years where it took us six. they also might have pushed any of our eastern teams right out of the playoffs into the finals themselves if they could have played the east instead of the west. yes, look out for the thunder. they may be very legit and a real bargain until folks line up to say i want mine starting with durant.

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Sorry doc, but no way OKC beats Boston last year.

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Just Trade Jamal Crawford and 2 draft picks to the Charlotte bobcats for Erick dampier and Boris Diaw

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I still if we trade jamal which i hope we dont we trade him for chauncey billups.

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You know it use to be understood that just with a handshake on an agreement that both sides would honor their commitments. Now with pro sports salaries completely out of control I have no sympathy for the players or the owners. It is true the owners own the franchise and the players are employees, but the owners greed has pushed payroll through the roof. I can not see paying the lucrative salaries that these players are asking for these days. To me if a player can not honor his contract then he needs to be barred from the league. Likewise for the owners!!!

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G-Daddy

What about sending Jamal to Charlotte for Daimpeer-SP.
A small player for a big center would be a major coup!

How can that work and who can we package up on the
Trade Machine? IDK how to use that thing.

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DOC-you seem to have forgotten the big X factor that hurt the Hawks, and that was HC MWoodson. First, he obviously lied to GM BKnight, and pretended to be on the same page as Knight, as far as wanting to play uptempo basketball, drafting and developing young players, as well as building through the draft.

Contrary to what WOODY LOVERS want to believe, it was MWoodson, not GM BKnight, who made public his doubts about the ability of both DWilliams and CPaul to be successful at the pro level. He clearly didn’t want either of these two PG’s, or any other rookie PG for that matter.

No matter how talented a player is, if his HC has a particular bias against him, and refuses to give him consistent opportunities, mins and support, it’s very hard for that player to succeed. I believe you’ve mentioned it before, but we saw the same type of situation take place with PG CBillups and C BWallace earlier in their careers.

I believe LDrew has selected his roster based on what he feels best fits the style of play he intends to promote, as well as what he intends to accomplish. I believe he’s dead serious about forcing other teams to match up to the Hawks and what they’ll be doing. While, on the other hand, most Hawk fans are rooted in the belief of there being only one way to skin a cat, and therefore are fixated on constructing the roster to match up with everyone else, especially the Magic.

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Bottom line the Hawks shouldn’t have resigned Joe Johnson. He has not proven himself to be a big time player,and Jamal Crawford was the difference in many of our games last year. I’ve always been a Hawks fan and can’t tell you how frustrating it is to sit back year after year and watch management make bad decisions. Here is some of our history.

Dominique Wilkins deal brought us Danny Manning. Wow?
We take Sheldon Williams in the draft. Severely overrated player.
We decide to pay John Koncak so Detroit couldn’t get him?

At what point will we get someone who can make the decisions needed to place us in contention for a championship?
I’m beginning to wonder if they even want to win.

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ndtka, nice follow up points. i was terribly disappointed in the ASKG in comparison to the thunder. they seem to want a title, not hold onto 4th place. where did that attitude get the wiz? i hate to be the fly in the ointment but too much hinges on an untested rookie head coach. he quickly becomes the fall guy to hide management mistakes and buy time for those upstairs. personally i dont see “it” yet in teague and never saw “it” in acie either. my guy was stuckey, certainly not all star material but serviceable and would not have cost us the 40 mill bibby has. that has really crippled us and meant chills or something similar could not end up here. he cost big bucks his first year and a half here. i dont think that was woody’s fault any more than shels was. it was money management issues that got us that sh!t. i hope it was because if everyone signed off on that for talent then we are really sunk. i would rather be considered cheap than stupid if i were the then BASG now the ASKG.

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I will put money on this…they let Jamal go, sign Horford to an extension, and Jordan Crawford becomes the new Crawford. Horford is more important than Crawford.

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We should have never signed JJ and used that money to sing JC1 and a legit center. I know that it’s too late now, but we are still in need of a C.

I say at this point instead of keeping an unhappy player, trade him now while he is on top for something of value. Maybe a young prospect big man. I would be ok with Spencer Hawes, Roy Hibbert, Greg Oden. I know Oden has not proven anything, but who knows whats left inside that body of his.

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Not bad enought we gave Chills away for some Gatorade, now you want to give Crawford away for as little as we had to give for him. Congrats!

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Worst ownership/GM in sports.

This guy Crawford is the BEST offensive player on this team. He scores WITH ease against the BEST in the game. He doesn’t dribble the ball for 20 seconds and take contested 20 footers. He puts the BALL IN THE BASKET.

He is our BEST OFFENSIVE player.

Yet ASG and Sund will alienate him and every other FA that comes up. Paying 13.5+ Million a year for freaking Duck and Minime? These guys SUCK. They are USELESS basketball players, one of whom is a career underachiever, and the other who is severely overweight and is the WORST starting point guard in this league (there are BACKUPS better than Bibby by a LONGSHOT).

RESIGN CRAWFORD

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hoosier hawk

agree with you with trading for a defensive SF, maybe someone like Matt Barnes, but nope, we let him sign somewhere else while we fought for a mediocre SG who is afraid of taking blame and ownership

It would be nice if Orlando would take JC1 and Zaza for Gordat, and maybe Pietrus.

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Ken S.

I see, I did think JC2 was drafted as insurance if JJ or Jamal left.
I actually forgot about him, I can’t waite to see him ball.
He plays like he has a really BIG chip on his shoulders and
I like that aggressiveness. JC2 reminds me of DWade and he may
be our hidden gem/dark horse in this draft. I sure hope so.

doc, great points! I feel dumb but, what does BASG stand for?

Grand-Daddy, ha ha … Re: (*_*) – that guy gets none.
He blew it … Trying to be “The Orator of the Obvious?”
But, I LOVE to re-signing of Joe! I don’t care how much these
cats make … No skin off my wallet! At some point, we need
to go into the Luxury Tax IF we really want to make some noise.

No one knew, Melo would be available either. If we didn’t sign Joe,
I guess we could have made a hard run at Melo, with that money!
Or, Shaq too, or, Billups too. Who knows? That is water under the bridge now.

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Publix said:

“It would be nice if Orlando would take JC1 and Zaza for Gordat, and maybe Pietrus.”

Ah … You must have been at work the day ZsaZsa started for his
National Team: The Republic of Georgia this Summer and
dropped 27 pts 11 rebs on top of Gortat’s bald head.

That was after he ate Gortat’s Lunch. I think Gortat scored like
5 pts 2 rebs. (Somebody correct my numbers if I’m wrong)
I’m too lazy to research stats. But, you get the point.

Publix, don’t let the females keep schooling you baby!
Check your facts, if you can’t hang with the BIG Dogs?
Stay on the porch.

-smiles-
I just gave you another wedgie!

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Talk to The Hand!

DOC … Thanks, I always wondered what that neumonic stood
for….ha ha ha.

I will NEVER forget the photo on the front page of the AJC:

The ASKG in Fulton County Superior Court
Belkin looking like a Caricature extending “The outstretched Hand!”
and a devilish smirk to The Afro King – Billy Knight!

Billy, seated and nostrils flared so wide?
I could see his thoughts!

…. refusing to shake that nasty thing!
I laughed so hard, I damn near cried!

I may need to reorder that archived paper and frame that thing!
All that drama, because Belkin wanted to block the:
Joe for Boris and 1st Rd Pick!
Those were the Good Ole’ Daze of the ASKG!
I’m surprised Joe came here after that Huzzy-Fit!
þhats partly why I feel Joe is Home & This is where he belongs!
Joe loves this Team, this City and YES – These Fans!
The real Fans! Not, the band wagon haters – let them hate!
We don’t Care! Just bring us a Super-Star or Develop on thru the draft!
I don’t care HOW we do it – Just Do It!

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It’s kind of a turn on the way you love JJ, lol. Fellas, who knows what this young lady looks like?

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Dr Mary,

PLEASE DONT DO IT!!!(LOL)

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Stuck on Stupid! LOL!

cp

Spot on re: Stuckey in The Motor City. I saw a great play-off series his first season.
But, you’re right, I haven’t heard his name or game since? I don’t like his skill set
at all. IDK where his game went?

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During his one year in Atlanta, we’ve seen two sides of Jamal Crawford. During training camp, we saw an older and shorter but more talented version of Boris Diaw. Great passing skills combined with the ability to score and the willingness to “fit in” to the team. Remember how the Hawk players talked about by Crawford’s ability to PASS the ball during the early days of last year’s training camp?

During the regular season, however, we saw a younger and taller but less talented version of Allen Iverson. Crawford showed that he is almost as good as AI at one-on-one offense but, unlike AI, didn’t work nearly as hard at individual or team defense. Remember former Head Coach Woodson’s comments—wanting Crawford to pass less and shoot more? Yes, Crawford won the 6th man of the year award but at what cost to the TEAM?

But that was last year. This is a new year with a new HC who wants his TEAM to share the ball on offense and use quickness and athleticism to overwhelm opponents on defense. A Head Coach who seems to understand that, unlike playground ball or the AND 1 tour, NBA basketball is a TEAM game.

Jamal Crawford-the passer can be very effective in HC Drew’s offense, get a lot of minutes at PG and SG (sorry Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford) and would be worthy of an extension if he plays some D. However, Jamal Crawford-the shooter will be very frustrated in HC Drew’s offense, lose a lot of minutes at PG and SG (congratulations Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford) and will be traded, with Marvin Williams, at the trade deadline to Utah for Andrei Kirilenko—and that’s not necessarily a bad thing for Atlanta even if Crawford the passer does show up.

I know this is off the Crawford topic but think about this for a quick minute—perhaps no Hawk will benefit more from playing in HC Drew’s offensive system than Zaza Pachulia!

There were times (albeit few and far between) when Zaza displayed excellent offensive skills-including some behind the back passes. However, Coach Woodson wanted him to be more of a “banger” and Pachulia was clearly frustrated in that role.

Don’t be surprised when Zaza showcases his skills and becomes a prominent member of the Hawks’ rotation. More effective PT from Pachulia will allow Al Horford to get more rest as well as more time at PF—two moves that work to the Hawks’ benefit.

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KeepnTreal:

That’s “drmaryb” to you.
You want to speak to my grandaughter;
then act like a gentleman, and address her as a lady.

Publixx = 1,000, 001

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Drmaryb gets drunk and starts posting on the Hawks blog. Please excuse her.

As for the Hawks…………

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Mary Ellen:

I’m searchin’ for another Big also.
Like I have anything to do with it?
But, Dampier just doesn’t fit.
You need to think about Bigs that can stretch the floor.
Also Bigs that are exceptional passers, as they will need
to be above avg in that area to fit LD’s offense.
Another quality that LD seems to value is basketball IQ.
Believe it or not Cheeseburger has a very high Bb-IQ.
[Same for J.Powell & Etan]

Players who may fit: [LD's system]
*AA of course – Dallas
*Spencer Hawes – Philly (perfect fit)
*Roy Hibbert – Pacers
*Byron Mullens – OKC
*Bargnani – Toronto (presumed untouchable)
*Chris Kaman – Clippers ???
*Troy Murphy – NJN **
**(could trade straight up for Jamal after 60 days)
*David West [PF] – Hornets (probably unwilling to trade)

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[...] showcase for his next deal while playing for a winning team eventually will trump any hurt feelings. But taking that stance could threaten the team’s chemistry and cohesion before the season even ge…. I don’t need to remind you that both of those things unraveled for the Hawks by the end of last [...]

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Grand-Daddy

He got my back! Yeah! Get ‘Em G-Daddy.
They may not respect my opinions, but, they will not disrespect
me and go unpunished! rof-lol!

Ms. Dee

I guess Publix – Gone Shopping?
He changed his name and tried to take me out to lunch?
I don’t eat lunch – I eat kids!

Clyde

tried to butt – in, but I sent his crusty butt back to night school.

Some people will never learn.

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Najeh

After watching Gladyr play this summer,
I was extremely disappointed.
I suppose he can shoot, but he does not seem
to have a shooter’s mentality.
Very timid.
Not much else either.

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I was down at my local LA Fitness about an hour ago, as I walk in I see one of the taller guys there and I was like wow that looks like Jamal Crawford, I double take real quick and see he had on Hawks shorts. Lol the whole thing took me by surprise I asked him about the extension, and he didn’t really have a lot to say and I was catching him on his way out, but nevertheless I thought I would tell you our guy is still reppin’ ATL.

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Mary Ellen is on a straight tear , LOL

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Dr Mary,,

U are definely killin dem..Im sure glad I’m on your TEAM!!

THX Jae EVOLUTION, for the infor on Jamal Crawford. I truly believe he wants to be here in ATLANTA, his feelings are just a little hurt after contributing here just to be replaced by a ROOKIE (no less) who has his same style, same steelo, same intials (JC) and same last name (CRAWFORD)..go figure!!

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BCU!

Blog Crimes Unit!

Blu-Ray!

That’s right … I killing these knuckle heads tonite.
The streets are cleared and they gone now!

I had to … I just had to do it. They being disrespectful, so
I had to pull out that ole’ razor sharp Cheetah – Thong!
I had to sang that – Thong Song!

-Cisco-

That Girl is Poison … Never trust a big but & a smile!
-Bell, Biv, DeVoe-

They don’t know nothing ’bout that!

rof-lol.
I’m gone jump on they Mamma next!

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Bel, Biv, Devoe….

Ha, ha, ha, ha….

Now ya know….

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* that was Yesterday – in case you didn’t see the game!

Blu-Ray
(1050 P)

I smell a rat on the blog tonite. It’s laying turds all over my
blackberry screen.

rof . LSM (laugh some more)

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Ms. Dee

MC sleeping at the wheel. But, that’s OK – I’m taking out the
Hot-Garbage with my gat til’ MC get back on it. I had to help
my man out – he can do it alone! He needed some back up.

Mary Ellen on Neighbor HOOD Watch.
I’m patrolling the troll and the 17 people he got running around
in his scizofrenic head.

rof lmbao.

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Girl u are SO right…WHY IN THE WORLD he be working out in LA Fitness no doubt. At least Bally’s. He could forever workout at the Hawks facility IF he was here..right?? LOL

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Well this Thursday I’ll be watchin the Dream in what will be the first Finals series played in Phillips Arena(I think?). Our star player had to deal with foul trouble, a concussion scare, and stitches to the noggin and we still lost in close one.

Hopefully the Hawks will be in attendance as a team and take notes on how to play the game with max effort and heart!

Let’s go Dream!

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Ms. Dee

Child Please! … Jamal ain’t got no muscles.
He prolly run for stamina. He definitely ain’t bench pressing
nothing in no gym!

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Co-Sign Najeh

I dont talk much, I read more then anything else. Very seldom do I post. It’s come to the point where im tired of scrolling down and reading things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand and something compeltely different.

But what does it matter, nothing will change.

To maybe try and stay on topic,

That whole Battier for Crawford idea seems intresting. Ofcourse we’d have to add to it but intresting none the less.

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JeJe,

Same for you: check the clutch stats on http://www.82games.com and compare JJ and Crawford when the game was on the line (and is only the offensive part of the game).

Then, repeat after me: “Jamal is a fine and exciting offensive player but JJ is much better and has a much more complete game”

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Renaldo

Great post. Well reasoned and clearly written. I agree completely. Please post more often.

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When Doc Rivers leaves the Celtics at the end of year offer him coach and general manager something they should have done several years ago.

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Well, ASG doesn’t have the money to sign JCrawford to an extension! It is all tied up in JJ (iso joe) so forget that happening. A trade will happen because LD and staff will be told to play rookie Crawford in his place. i loved watching the hawks on TV as unable to attend the games, but i am thru with them this year. I just can’t get over JJ’s contract after rubbing the fans with his true feelings in playoffs. ASG plain out doesn’t have a clue and team needs to be sold, then i will be watching again

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vava, jack never was a legit choice for us in the draft just like rondo from the point we drafted and where they were ultimately taken whereas stuckey was the choice between him and acie. anyway he might have fallen to the same black cloud other rooks did, dont know. stuckey got a lot of time to put it together with being the favored one of dumars. sure, id like jarrett thought he was pretty solid coming out of tech. would have been a lot more pleased if he had been gotten instead of bibby as well.

o’brien the jury is still out on stuckey, the law has spoken about acie who was an old man playing against kids as a 23-24 yr old senior when he came out. he was a late bloomer in college and that doesnt portend success higher up.

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Heck, I’d sweeten with a draft pick to make Battier happen. No contest. He won’t score 30 points in a game like Jamal, but he won’t score 6 the next either. He WOULD contribute greatly to defensive consistency. Marvin would then fill in as big man 6th man role.

Battier’s a stud.

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Trade him for a future conditional second rounder Rick Sund.

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dr. mary, don’t you worry ’bout a thing… you werte on fire last night. Like the Ohio Players. Fire! At least he didn’t ask you to pose for a picture like those old Ohio Players album covers (works of art if you ask me).

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Astro Joe

Ha Ha! Thanks for the support. The Ohio Players? Now, you’re talking!

Sometimes, you got to wrestle with the Hogs.

Like Grand-Daddy says: you get all muddy and besides, the Hogs like it.

What’s up home boy?
We are supposed to stay on topic – remember?

Any new comments or ideas about the Hawks Conundrum and should we re-sign
Jamal? Or, give in to his veiled threats of: Trade me Or Else? Or Else What?

1-800 how’s my blogging?

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“Same for you: check the clutch stats on http://www.82games.com and compare JJ and Crawford when the game was on the line (and is only the offensive part of the game). ”

Whatever. Joe hasn’t dropped 50+ on D.Wade. Joe is going to make twice as much as Jamal over the next 5 or 6 years. That is where the joke is.

At least Jamal tries every time he’s out there. Joe takes plays off

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Astro Joe

Agreed! I really don’t want to see Jamal leave, he’s one of my favorite
Hawks. However, if the ASKG don’t want to paly him and go into
The Luxury Tax (which, I think may be necc. to WIN), then I would
rather see him traded for a NEED than for Cap Space.

” I ain’t saying Jamal is a gold digger, ‘cauz he got needs …”

————————————-
~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478) said:

“some of yall actin like that boy JJ is a top notch SUPERSTAR.

September 14th, 2010
7:45 am”

Sir, you have a point in re: to some bloggers.
However, I said yesterday that the Hawks need a Box-Draw Super Star on this team! If, DWade is a Super-Star? And, most believe so …

He needed Shaq and now LeBron + Bosh to compete,
then, why should Mr. Johnson we expected to do it alone?
He is the only All-Star on this team that draws triple teams and is
The Only All-Star this town has attracted outside of the draft picks
and, let’s face it – is the best player on this team for the past 6 years.

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Interesting prospective from Etan Thomas on a variety of points especially this one :

Nothing against him or any other GM, but GMs say a lot of things and sometimes (I won’t say most of the time) the things they say aren’t exactly… Hmmm… How can I say this… The truth. Any player will attest to this. They’ll look you in your eyes and tell you that you are in their plans and a part of their future, then as you are driving home you’ll hear on the radio that they are looking to trade you.

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Meh, they can probably finish out in the second round of the playoffs without him. Really no reason to pay him when he isn’t going to get you anywhere you hadn’t been before.

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The season The Hawks draft a true centre,a white not black,and not Zsa Zsa,that season forward would be The hawks break through. I say draft not trade. Hawks nearly had it and let it go.

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The Truth, I read that too. It makes Etan look very immature (IMO). Imagine if Sund tells Jamal “we’ll take care of you next summer” and sincerely means it… then, the Hawks have a chance to add someone like Tyson Chandler for the exact same asking price of Jamal. Should Sund stick to his commitment to Jamal or should he do his job and try to piece together the best roster for the Hawks? I don’t think the intent is to lie and a player shows tremendous immaturity if they take the position of victim in that situation.

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NorthCyde posted a very interesting stat on Clutch Shooting
Performers earlier this summer.

I believe JJ was in the top 3 ior 5 in that Category.
If I recall correctly Jamal’s name wasn’t even on that list,
or in the top 10?

Regardless, Joe is the best player on THIS team!
So, deal with it or find us another Super All-Star that works on
The Trade Machine. Or, better yet, one that the ASKG will
actually do.

The fan passion on this blog is terrific!
I hope the ASKG is paying attention to us, like we are them.

One can only hope, these great posters are not falling on
deaf ears.

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doc,

Although Stuckey looked good, he played at Eastern Washington University in the Big Sky conference. Acie was playing against Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma etc.

AJ,

I wonder if Sund would ask LD’s opinion about trading Jamal.

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DrmaryB, if Joe is getting triple teams, then where is the talent on this team so many brag about?

I’m not blaming Joe, but I am sure not agreeing that there is a lot of talent on this team if he is being triple teamed. After all, we were 3rd in offense last year. How many teams come in and change the one area they were successful in? Expect to continue to see iso-Joe. I don’t buy the LD theory.

And didn’t you say Joe loved the fans here? Really? Did you miss his true comments last year? Was he quoted out of context?
Joe has shown how much he loves the fans. Its better if he stays mute…then no one can confirm his love for the fans or his disdain.
IMO, Joe came back because he knew he would have trouble selling that mega-mansion he built in a tough economy. This way, he keeps it simple and gets max money for a state that doesn’t gouge your wages. Much better than Chicago or New York or Jersey.

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Jamal brings up two issues in my mind. Do we want to get into the Luxury Tax or keep a tight budget. Some would say that’s a stupid question, but it will always remain a question. Jamal’s services would be nice, but not if we give up the $$ to sign Horford.

If we keep Jamal we’re loaded at SG. To me I would trade Bibby and Mo Evans if we really see such promise in JC2 an Sy and Teague to give them minutes to develop. Players need regular minutes in a real rotation to perform comfortably. If they can’t get them there’s no point hoarding them on our team when we have other needs. If you keep them all, send JC2 and Sy to the D-League to develop.

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JeJe said:

“Isn’t this clown Drmaryb supposed to be banned? Go eat !@#$.”

I haven’t heard any breaking news about me being banned?
You must be talking about your buddy – T.S.
Very Mature language and comments – keep it up.
You are a real Ass-et to the blog.

-smile-

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Worth Repeating!

Fundamentals said:

“Jamal brings up two issues in my mind. Do we want to get into the Luxury Tax or keep a tight budget. Some would say that’s a stupid question, but it will always remain a question. Jamal’s services would be nice, but not if we give up the $$ to sign Horford.

If we keep Jamal we’re loaded at SG. To me I would trade Bibby and Mo Evans if we really see such promise in JC2 an Sy and Teague to give them minutes to develop. Players need regular minutes in a real rotation to perform comfortably. If they can’t get them there’s no point hoarding them on our team when we have other needs. If you keep them all, send JC2 and Sy to the D-League to develop.”

I posted the exact same comments yesterday – Verbatum!

See Najeh! I told you this basketball topic has been beaten
to death! Its all DeJavu now. Then, the bait car keeps rolling up.

-smile- I’m just having fun with the fellas!

Let’s Go Dream! Show your Brothers how we do it!

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Renaldo,

great post. do come back.

however, be prepared for a rabid attack from Rod from College Park one of the regulars over here and from one of his accolits, truthspitter…

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doc,

point taken. I though that you were talking about offers to restricted free agents after their rookie contract and not about the draft.

As OB (?) mentioned, Acie did come out with a rep of being the best PG.

In his defense, he got injuried at a critical point of his rookie season and then again on the following year AND he was being coached by Woody…

Last year Acie had a string of very good games for Chicago when Rose went down showing a lot of potential. I caught a few highlights with him playing with the Bull’s green jersey (St. Patricks Day?) and he looked like an all-star…

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Renaldo

Ditto! Excellent posts this morning – quite refreshing.
Thanks.

Fundamentals

Agreed, I love great debates and varied opinions. Outside of that,
all the personal bashing is just hilarious up to a point.

But, I love seeing things from an opposite perspective, it makes
you think and sometimes change your own mind. I thought that
was the art of blogging to share and exchange ideas and opinions.

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The Truth, Jamal’s early termination option was for the summer of 2009. If the Hawks had traded for Jamal in June and he terminated his contract 2 weeks later, we would have traded the expiring contracts of Acie and Speedy for essentially nothing. Jamal had every opportunity to decline and potentially stay in the toxic environment with Nellie. But instead, he opted for a winning situation in Atlanta. it was a win-win agreement for both parties. If Sund puts Jamal in his doghouse for demanding a trade, then yes, Sund is acting immaturely. I hope that he sits down with Jamal sooner than later and explains his intentions… which is different than making a promise or commitment. I intend to keep you (although if someone offers megood value, I’m trading you in a heart beat) or I intent to trade you (but if someone offers me pennies on the dollar you will stay). But at the end of the day, Sund holds the cards and Jamal is potentially stuck with a $10M contract on a winning team. I should be so stuck.

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Etan is a talker. He is a published poet and has engaged in political commentary in the past. All of that is nice. I hope that he rebounds, sets solid screens and blocks shots. I’d much rather read quotes about how he was able to effectively defend Dwight Howard for 12-15 minutes in a game than hear/read him wax poetic about a social issue. I’d be impressed if he sets a screen without being called for an offensive foul (since no one else on the team knows how to make that happen).

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“Fundamentals
September 14th, 2010
11:09 am

Joe has roped himself into a bad situation if he really doesn’t like Atlanta. Get real people. He signed, so he must want to play here. He’s got 124 million reasons to perform, so I expect he will.”

Nope, Joe doesn’t have to do anything to earn that money. The ASG has already guaranteed it unless of course the owners file for bankruptcy.
Joe is set and could be our version of Jermaine O’Neal, who earned 150M so far…..anybody remember any big plays he has made?

Not just Joe’s fault though………I get that. But his comments and no-shows in the playoffs sure don’t convince me that he should be the leader.

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Never said Joe should be the leader, but if he plays his game his game will speak. He doesn’t have to be Lebron. We’ve got a few other vocal kids on our team. They’re the one’s screaming for the ball in the post? Al and Josh maybe?

Maybe we can get Malcolm Mackey to come in and teach a clinic on setting a pick by rolling the Bobby Hurley clips from days gone by. I think Etan will bring toughness if he can find his niche here. He seems positive, seems to be a hard worker. Time will tell. If he sucks, he can pen his own eulogy.

Jamal could actually increase his value by seasons end by playing solid D at his position in LD’s new system. To me he’s not worth the money after his contract ends. We can get the same services cheaper…why not his at a decent price.

Is Crawford’s issue the money alone for his personal gain or is it to finally push ASG into Luxury Tax land and potentially making this team better by changing the way free agents percieve the ATL.

I don’t care what you say. Joe is under pressure to perform. He’s proven with his comments his poor performance teamed with some fan chatter sets him off. He cares, he wants to succeed, he wants to lead. Accept him for what he is. The perfect piece in the right system. Is he Kobe, no, but neither are 99.9% of other players. I say that watching Kobe and Shaq getting dismantled by Detroit. Guess they needed a “real” leader instead of time to learn and grow.

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“and they played their hearts out against the best team in the league and took them to six hard fought games in the first round playoff series”.

That part sounds similar to the Hawks-Celtics series. Let’s be honest, OKC is a unique situation… a relatively new franchise and the only professional sports team in the city (actually, in the state). There’s a reason why the atmosphere is comparable to college sports… because that is the only other thing those fans know in Oklahoma. The other comparable markets are Salt Lake City and Portland.

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if basketball is a team sport, i guess that leaves jj out. the only reason he had 3 people on him is because he would dribble & hold on to the ball to long. & they knew he would always do that

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is that the way an allstar thinks that is the way the game should be played

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TRADEHIM! TRADE HIM! TRADE HIM! TRADE THEM ALL!

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Facts Don’t Lie!

If kobe scores 54 points on April 12, 2007 against THE CLIPPERS an lose in his
own arena isn’t accurate enough?

Then maybe Kobe scoring 58 in triple OT against THE BOBCATS is
more accurate?

[www.kobebryantdvd.com/58-points.html]

Here’s my point, Jamal dropping 50 points doesn’t make him
a better player than Joe Johnson. Hard to believe anyone can
even purse their lips to say something that absurd.

But, welcome to Blog World, where anyone can say anything.
No pre-qualifications required.

Just like Kobe learned after MJ and all other scorers before him
eventually learned as well. Basketball is a TEAM game.
When kobe learned this he won Three more rings.

In this season’s Championship, Kobe didn’t score so well,
his teammates stepped up and he dished 11 assists (I believe).
Point is, Kobe did other things to impact the games outcome.

Eat THAT and Weep!

It’s just Basketball people.

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G-dad’s T.O’t.D.

Philly gets:
*Jamal -&- Bibby

Hawks get:
*Spencer Hawes
*Lou Williams
*Jason Kapono [exp contract]

**Most likely Hawks would have to throw in a draft pick [1st]?
due to Philly picking up an X-tra $2 mil + accepting Bibby.
[not to mention Lou Williams] + [Jamal 1 year rental ?]

***We get a Big, sal relief, [kapono exp] & versatle guard.

Heck – I’d even throw in Gladyr!

How can yawl not like this trade?

****Houston would not want Jamal****
*****Kevin Martin*****

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The Houston comment above…..^…..was due to previous posts!

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G-Daddy

I like it … I like it a lot.

We get the traditional BIG.
Lous W. Comes back home to Atlanta to play with Josh.
Kapano could play the 3?

Question is? Would Philly bite?

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Mary Ellen

As with an attractive young lady,
if the gentleman does not ask,
he will never know.

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G-Daddy

You’re right.
You never, never know?

I do like that proposal A Lot!
Louis W. Has really come on of late. He is a smallish kid who should have gone to
College and bulk up a little or at least work on his game. Like Jamal, he will never
be The Incredible Hulk.

Now Etan, speaking of Hulk? Did you see them guns? His triceps are a big as his biceps. We needed some beef cakes in the post – hugh?

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Ken Strickland

September 14th, 2010
4:01 pm

Ray,anybody, I have a nasty habit of sucking penises, I was wondering if either of you guys can tell me how to get the balls out of my face?

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Washington would not mind receiving another scorer and Zaza to get rid of Arenas. Portland would love Arenas to go with Roy. Not to mention they have another 3 centers left.

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G-Daddy

A tiger does not change it’s stripes.
The Truth will always be in the words.
See the last comments and there is your Truth.

This is a Blog and you can’t post about whatever the hell you want – apparently.
So, keep posting your awesome stuff – There are NO rules – only Scroll Keys for those who don’t like.

Capiche’?

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T.S.

Evidently Drmaryb has no life and lives on this blog. Its the only way she can talk to someone and feel good about herself. She can pretend to be something she’ll never be.

Go read some of her stuff and see how proud she gets, lol it’s pretty childish the way she feels as if she is the “GOD OF BLOG”.

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Publix, I know. You are right. Mary can be very nasty. Her and grandad used my name to say stupid stuff to get me blocked then spread rumors that I was block. She posts blogs where she preaches sermons and then steal s your name for malice. Prior to that I did not agree with things mary said always but now ive seen the other side of her. I would not call her friend. Grandad either.

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Publix I havent had a bad experience with miss Dee. Weve disagreed before but without hate or malice. She reaches out to mary when mary is being exposed and offers support. I respect her for that. Mary can be harsh but not deceitful or malicious. At least thats been my experience to date. Perhaps youve had a different experience. let me encourage you to right ms dee and she where she coming from…. cant hurt.

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it would be nice to just come on here and talk basketball without having to deal with some of the idiots on here

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Co-sign that Publix

4:30 pm !

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mary is a devil

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I can’t believe that my Falcons couldn’t beat a thirds string QB.

#7 looked great up in Philly though

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“Isn’t this clown Drmaryb supposed to be banned? Go eat !@#$.”

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She attacks everyone and anyone. Got forbid that someone agrees with her, then she pumps herself all up and tells everyone how she is bashing us, so on and on. It’s pretty amazing that what I would assume is an adult is so far behind and living in her own little world.

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Eric Dampier now a free agent if all Dampier fans want to know .

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Surprise: Bobcats waive Erick Dampier

Erick Dampier (C) – Charlotte Bobcats

(Tue, Sep 14 – 4:09pm ET)

The Bobcats have waived Erick Dampier (and his non-guaranteed $13 million contract) after failing to find a suitable trade offer.
Dampier’s expiring contract was seen as a very desirable trade chip, but the Bobcats are close to the luxury tax and seem content saving money. The veteran center should have no shortage of suitors once he clears waivers.

Warriors agree on two-year deal w/ Amundson

Louis Amundson (F) – Golden State Warriors

(Mon, Sep 13 – 10:49am ET)

The Warriors have reportedly agreed with Louis Amundson on a two-year, $4.7 million contract.
The second year will be a player’s option, and this seems like a fair market-value deal for the blue-collar power forward. Anything can happen with the Warriors (especially while Don Nelson is coaching) but it’s unlikely that Amundson will have reliable fantasy value.
Source: Marc Spears via Twitter

Greg Oden may not be ready for opening night?

Greg Oden (C) – Portland Trail Blazers

(Mon, Sep 13 – 9:49am ET)

Trail Blazers GM Rich Cho said that Greg Oden (microfracture surgery) is running and healing well, but might not be cleared for basketball activities for a few more weeks.
“We’re going to ease him into it … maybe do some two-on-two or three-on-three,” Cho said. “We’re being cautious. The longer you wait for the bone to heal, the better.” It’s too early to tell, but Oden may miss part of the preseason and he’s not a lock to be available for opening night.
Source: Portland Tribune

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Dampier is now free for anyone to sign. Now watch he got ride Miami’s sack like the rest of the world

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He is under contract for another year. It is not like NFL where an athlete’s contract is not guaranteed. In conclusion, he should shut up and honor his contract.

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Publix, back on topic….
” have been saying for a while that the Hawks should trade JC1 for Hawes.

Hawes is no better than what we have…that is why Philly took Dalembert. We need defense in the post.

Or, we send JC1 and Zaza to Washington, they send Arenas to Portland, and Portland sends us Aldridge.”

Aldridge is a PF and then we would have Smoove, Al, Powell and Aldridge. It would kind of look like our SG position. Aldridge is worth more than Zaza& JC1, and Arenas is an enigma.

Northcyde, paying $$ for the same product really doesn’t enthuse me to take the trek down to Philips. I can see the core just fine from DirecTV. The fans are the ones held hostage here…..being forced to see the same product when the same product is 0 for 8 in Round 2 in the last 2 years. We can’t even win a home game.
The fans don’t have to back this organization’s idea of a team that should be competing for a championship. Personal preference of course.

I am for removing the stagnant GM we have and for realizing that the core may not be enough to finish 3rd in our own division.

Tell me, has Sund really exceeded the expectations of fans? This is the 1st year he has signed a 2nd round pick. The others? wasted.
I could go on and on……but I am going to try and let LD work the magic he will need to work.

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Do people seriously not know what a isolation play is but continue throwing the word around as if they do ?

We did not isolate Crawford we isolated JJ Crawford is basically our dedicated three point shooter and our bench scoring threat .When he comes in th e game we run a ton of pick and roll since when did the pick and roll become an isolation play ? Crawford does not hold the ball we do not clear out the area so he can go to work on his man . Hes a very good one on one player but that is not how we used. People know we isolate JJ and knows Crawford is a one on one player and just assume we isolated him too. He was 6th in the nba in 3pt attempts and 7th in makes.

I find it absolutely mindboggling that people are upset because Jamal wants to stay in ATL and they want to try and use him in some delusional fantasy to erase all the teams problems while apparently still starting Bibby and Marvin .

Im quite confident that we are gonna go out there with the same starting 5 as last year and kill the trade value of everyone on this team. Any move by this team that doesnt start with extracting Bibby or Marvin or both is basically a slow walk to the gas chamber .

So busy trying to stay average that we are basically gonna bumble our way right back to the bottom. .

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sleepy you have a point

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“That part sounds similar to the Hawks-Celtics series. Let’s be honest, OKC is a unique situation… a relatively new franchise and the only professional sports team in the city (actually, in the state). There’s a reason why the atmosphere is comparable to college sports… because that is the only other thing those fans know in Oklahoma. The other comparable markets are Salt Lake City and Portland.”

Fair enough that the Hawks-Celtics series was similar, but it still doesn’t change the fact that Sam Presti and Scott Brooks inspire a lot more confidence than Rick Sund and Mike Woodson (the jury is out on Larry Drew), and Kevin Durant is a much better and much more charismatic star than Joe Johnson.

I don’t buy the “only show in town” argument. The Jacksonville Jaguars are the only show in town in that city and barely anyone shows up to those games because they don’t have a superstar and don’t have really promising hope for being elite in the near future. Same with the Sacramento Kings — they drew well when they were elite, and nobody shows up now that they suck. Same with the Memphis Grizzlies — only show in town, nobody shows up. And on the flip side, the NBA city to which Atlanta best compares is Dallas (sprawling southern city, football is king, all 4 major sports, long commute times, poor public transportation) and yet the Mavericks consistently are in the top ten in the league in attendance. Why is that? Because they have a legit superstar and legit ownership, and whether the experts think so or not, they always put out a talented enough team that the fans think they have a realistic hope of contending for a title.

Swap Joe Johnson, Rick Sund, and Larry Drew for Kevin Durant, Sam Presti and Scott Brooks and the Hawks will instantly be top 5 in attendance while the Thunder will be playing in front of half full arenas.

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“If the fans expect the players to go “all out”, then the fans need to show that same commitment. ”

I’ve called you out on this before, and I’ll do it again:

Nobody expects Waffle House to only make good food and not spit in it if every table is full. Waffle House is expected to serve good food regardless of how many people are there, and if they don’t, people won’t go.

Nobody expects Best Buy to sell you working computers only if the store is packed with customers. Best Buy is expected to sell working computers regardless of how many people are there, and if they don’t, people won’t go.

Nobody expects Comcast to provide quality cable service (not that they do, but that’s another story) only if a lot of people sign up for Comcast cable. Comcast is expected to provide quality cable regardless of how many people sign up for it, and if they don’t, people will choose other TV and Internet options.

This is how a free market works. Why should this be any different for the Hawks? Why should fans be expected to support a franchise whose owners are best known for a five-year-long court battle, who employed a coach for six years who refused to make adjustments and coach to the team’s strengths, who have passed up multiple opportunities to acquire a legitimate superstar in favor of acquiring mediocre talent, whose GM wastes no time giving out massive contract extensions to mediocre players but who tells good players to wait on their deals, and who have finished a six-year-long rebuilding process only to have a team that, while good, has no realistic chance of contending for a title? Why should casual fans be excited about a team that repeatedly claims that they “like their core”, the same core that has shown that it has no realistic chance of improving beyond its current level?

Atlanta fans may be fickle, but they are not stupid. Everyone can see that Oklahoma City took half the time the Hawks did to complete their rebuilding process, are already at the Hawks’ level, and still have a lot of room for growth, while the Hawks’ growth has stagnated. Everyone can see that other teams in the conference have made substantial upgrades to their roster (at least on paper) this summer — including the Bucks, who came into this summer without cap space — while the Hawks were content to trade away draft picks and overpay for D-League talent at the end of the bench. Everyone can see that other teams hired hot coaching prospects while the Hawks hired the cheapest guy available (not that I don’t like Drew, but I’m talking about public perception here). Nobody in this city has forgotten that the Hawks could have had Andre Iguodala or Al Jefferson instead of Josh Childress, Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin, Brandon Roy or Rajon Rondo instead of Shelden. And quite frankly, nobody in this city has forgotten that the Hawks’ signature move of the offseason was Joe Johnson getting rewarded with a max contract after he led this team to the worst second-round playoff defeat in league history.

You can argue the merits of any of the decisions I mentioned above, but you can’t deny that all of them were bad from a public relations standpoint. And ultimately, public perception is what influences ticket sales. If the Hawks want to improve attendance, they need to show that they are committed to winning. Signing Shaq would have helped with that big time. Not selling their draft pick for cash would have helped with that big time. Not re-signing Collins and signing Powell would have helped with that big time. The fact is, when die-hard fans like us are disappointed with them, casual fans — who waaaaaay outnumber us — are going to tune them out. And really, other than Ken Strickland, drmaryb, and Rev in Tampa, are there any other real optimists on this blog regarding the Hawks’ offseason? If even most of us are disappointed, how can we expect casual fans to show up?

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^^That was supposed to say “this CITY will show up to see…” etc.

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In any city, for any franchise, when new ownership and/or a new GM takes over, the sports fan base tries to see how legit they are. The DASG gave the local sports fans a bad first impression and haven’t really made the necessarily splashes to recover from it. Really, there are only four moves they have ever made that were unequivocally positive from a PR standpoint: drafting Smoove, drafting Horford, trading for Bibby, and trading for Crawford. Even Joe has always fought the perception that he wasn’t worth what the Hawks were paying him and/or what the Hawks gave up for him, and the ownership battle definitely fuels that. And even Smoove has always been plagued with the (unfair in my opinion) stigma of being a malcontent. And even Bibby’s honeymoon wore off after a year when he became washed up. And even Crawford’s honeymoon has worn off with some people now that he has demanded a new deal.

Some of you will undoubtedly respond to this series of posts by saying “well they won 53 games”, “well they are in the playoffs”, etc. I’m not arguing the merits of any of their decisions (not that the majority of their decisions have been good ones anyway). I’m solely talking about PR, which is what gets a casual fan to pay for tickets. The DASG has consistently given the local sports fan base a bad impression during their entire tenure as owners of the Hawks.

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Najeh, Nice post

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All these trade proposals for Jamal are really for fantasy basketball only. The reality is that Sund walks a very tight line between what is doable and what is not:

1) Why would a lottery-bound team trade for Jamal now when they can just wait until he’s a FA under a new CBA where his real market value will likely be adjusted downward? Why would these teams be interested in him now if they are planning more for the future rather then this season? Yes, they might want to dump a bad contract via a trade but why would the penny-pinching Sund be interested in acquiring that same bad contract? What’s in it for the Hawks? So, lottery-bound teams are likely not motivated to trade for him now.

2) Why would Sund trade Jamal to an eastern conference division playoff-bound team? Do we really want to play against a highly motivated Jamal in the playoff? Even if that is not the issue, I doubt the Hawks can find a trustworthy trading partner from an eastern rival. So, they are likely off the table as well

Sund only real option would involve trading Jamal to a playoff bound team in the western conference. With this scenario, the pickings are still slim since matching the needs and player contract value for both trading partners would have to perfectly fit to make sense. So, I don’t see many suitors in this group. Furthermore, since we are not going into luxury tax land, the trade would most likely involve a one-for-one expiring contract with draft picks incentives. With these limitations, a trade possibility may not even exist since Jamal is not really classified as an elite star player like Melo to justify giving us a 1st round draft pick just for the sake of a rental. The only realistic option is to extend him an agreeable contract and then trade him for an expiring of equal value plus incentives. If the Hawks could somehow find a motivated suitor under these conditions, then maybe the drama could end favorable but I doubt it.

I think Sund will take the easy road which is must traveled by him and replay his Flip Murray bait-and-switch routine which means Jamal rides out his current contract (in the ATL) and moves on. We shall see

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Haha, sorry Grandad. Didn’t mean to leave you out.

I will say this — I predicted back in 2005 that in 2010 the Hawks would be the Atlanta team that is closest to a title, and considering how awful the Braves and Falcons look right now, I might still be right about that. (No disrespect to the Dream; I’m talking about the four major sports.)

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Fundamentals,

I don’t have time for you idiots anymore. I know my opinions are right and you are not as smart as me about the team.

You lose.

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Najeh

Thanks – I thought I had turned into a pissamist.

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@ Davenpoop…
The way our so-called big sports teams perform (especially under pressure), if I were the Dream, I’d come looking for an apology!
My goodness that Dream bunch are spunky! Down 7 on the road with a minute before the half and they claw and scratch back to within 2 in a :45 second span! Pure never give up in those ladies, they go down fighting!

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I do want to pay homage to other members of the FIBA WC Team USA. That was the most flexible lineup we’ve sent to a major championship since 1992 and 1986. I guess that idiot Colin Cowherd owes Lamar an apology! What a moron!

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Najeh is on fire tonight. And I agree. The hawks have not done a good job marketing wise.

Given the way jj and the hawks fizzled in the playoffs, plus jj’s comments about not caring about the fans, but we gave him a Max contract, they should have had a press conference for jj to announce the signing and to give him a chance to bring some fans back.

Especially after his big mouth agent said he would help recruit players.

The ajc’s page at one time said “come on out to see your favorite team play the hawks”. What? We need better marketing (in addition to better front office decisions ).

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JeJe = Settle down buddy, just giving you crap cause the door was wide open. I just remember you anxious to blow this team up, wanting all these wholesale changes, but this summer I’ve heard nothing from you hardly. Don’t take it personal. I love to counter some of your points, I agree with alot of them. No reason to call folks idiots. We just need some real action to get things back going to argue to the trade deadline in Feb.

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What a heartbreaker! Seattle won’t be getting any homecooking on Thursday! Go Dream!

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It’ll be interesting to see who gets him and for how much. I don’t know if we need him? Depends on Etan and how he can play physically. I guess we can all dream about the McLean Cheeseburger we’re promised. Is Dampier fast enough to be of value against Howard? I still feel we need a young, hungry talent w/ speed and energy, not a washed up old man. No offense…Grandad.

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Fundamentals

None taken.

I also think we need another Big.
It’s that my concept is what I “think” fits LD’s system.
A stretch [4] or [5] / capable on def. / high B-ball IQ
gifted passer / preferable 7 ftr that can defend the rim.

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Hawks will not pursue dampier, because we are already at 13 players (SG makes 14). And we already have Zaza and Collins.

Even if we pursued him, he probably would not sign with us anyway. He probably wants to be with a team that will allow him more PT.

Najeh,

Its tough to play what ifs. What if we had taken cp3 or deron instead of Marvin?

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Grandad, that sounds like Marcus Camby to me.

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best trade senerio

carmelo anthony

marvin
zaza

i dont know if it would work but that trade would be a dream come true

oh.. and erick dampier is a free agent now.. he’s a pretty good center that might take the vet minimium
jamal crawford
and next years 2nd round pick
and that three million dollars

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I haven’t been on here these past 2 months because there’s nothing to talk about. I’ve made my points time and time and time and time again:

Bibby and Marvin suck. Sund has an air of confidence about himself and is only concerned about being a top 4 team – not winning. He said we are veterans after we got killed by Orlando (no mention of the Cleveland series last year). We have money to spend (sold picks, trade exceptions blah blah blah) and owners won’t even go into LT although they said they would for the right player.

This team will be the #6 seed in the East this year.

We could’ve signed Shaq, we could’ve traded Marvin + trash for a Monta Ellis, but we didn’t

FIRE SUND

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ZaZa and Marvin for Carmelo?

LOL! That’s exactly why I don’t post here anymore. Half of you know nothing about basketball

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vava,

I agree that how JJ’s comments sounded was probably not what he meant, and he was probably speaking out of frustration too. His comments don’t bother me much.

However, some fans were turned off by his comments. So my point is the ASG should have had a press conference for him to explain/soften his comments, because some of these fans are turned off by his contract too.

And if the ASG want to increase attendance, I think marketing wise, it would have been a good idea to have him talk to fans.

It was interesting to note that the Timberwolves took out a full page ad in the paper to talk to their fans (and even went as far as saying they would not be competing for a championship this year).

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Going back to some realistic trades for JC1. Assuming that ASG’s priority is to sign AL before anybody else and stay under the luxury tax for the next couple of years, they might not even want to resign JC1 after next year unless it is at a discount (6-7MM per). Having said that, trading him now makes sense.

Lang Greene from Hoopsworld wrote a piece yesterday about 3 “realistic” trade scenarios for JC1.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17321

1. JC1 to 76ers for Lou Williams and Kappono.
2. JC1 to Pacers for TJ Ford and Danthay Jones (or Brandon Rush)
3. JC1 and Mo to Cavs for Antawn Jamison.

I like the 76ers trade proposal, the Pacers is interesting and do not like the third.

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Bertie, I kinda like the 3rd because Jamison can play the 3. And if he’s willing to be the sixth man, he would do well with us. For a motion offense, Jamison has the skill set you would look for. If you remember he had his best years in the motion offense in Washington. And he’s a veteran who you don’t have problems out of.

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Not to discourage the conversation here, but MC has a new, very short blog posting. Pape Sy is finally securely in the Hawks’ nest.

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O’Brien

I’ve been saying it loud the past week that:
We Need a Bow-Draw Super-Star on this team.
The fans may be reluctant to believe we have that hidden
somewhere on this roster’s core. But, this would be the time
for someone to step up to the plate and swing!

vava74

Let that ole’ story die. Why give it new life by keep talking
about it! The fans need to grow a pair and move on.
I believe the Mr. Johnson’s comments are a non-story at this point.

Rev in Tampa

I love your contributions to the basketball topics.
Don’t forget to ask Mr. Jim Price about his take on the:

1. Super-Friends in So. Beach
2. The State of The Union basketball wise, re: player movement
Versus work ethic for the salaries paid comparable to the 70’s
and 80’s.

Terrific comments bloggers,thanks!
Gotta’ go pay some bills now – later.

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Drmaryb, Najeh, & Grandad …. I really enjoyed you guys !!!!!!!!

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NorthClyde does a great job of using facts to make his arguments. Unfortunately, for those of us who followed him last year, he has no credibility left to begin with.

Get it through your head….we have four great players….JJ, JC, AH and JS. All the rest can be traded, for that center who is just waiting to become a starter in Atlanta and who wants off his team much more than Jamal does.

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Trade Crawford for Billups!!! If Denver trades Melo, they will go for this trade so they can get younger and free up some cap space for next year.

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