Atlanta Hawks: Larry Drew ditching switches

ditch the switch

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I read on the Boston Globe that Jamal isn’t demanding a trade anymore.

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Who cares, still not good enough to compete…..please sell the team…………..

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im telling u we might be winnig more than 60 games under LD’s unpredictable offense/deffense

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Drew opens his mouth again and, as usual, there is more to like. TEAM BASKETBALL!

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Correction: Al is too small

This LD hype is getting really annoying. This team simply does not have the personnel to be good. Bibby nor Teague nor Jamal care to guard anyone and Al is too small for the C position. Those are the two most important defensive positions and we fail out front and on the backline.

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And Sund

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I dont watch basketball much, but when I do I prefer the hawks, stay thirsty my friends

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why you guys always say what a person does bad. when will you look at what a person does goodhell you guys are so quick to say smoove doesn’t have a jumpshot. thats like me saying chris bosh can’t shoot threees or has a killer cross over.hell d howard can’t shoot thres, dribble, have a go to move, shoot free throws, or make good passes, but i bet orlando isn’t tripping off what the best center in the gamer can’t do. hell rondo doesn’t have a good j ray allen isn’t a good defender, paulpierce can’t elevate to block a shot to save his life but the c fans don’t complain about what they don’t have.we have four players ranked in the top 30 inthe league and yall tripping about other stuff that s irrelevant.GO HAWKS

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How bout ditching Bibby

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How bout ditching our “superstar leader” who doesn’t care if the fans spend their hard earned money to show up for the games.

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truthspitter

Please could you tell me what team has the personal to achieve with the offense that LD is trying to use. We have a team that has won 100 wins in the last two years so I would be please to know your answer.

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jamillion, what is your problem? did you grow up with a mother that loved you?

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New HC, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme, and same 1st 8-9; quick study, no problem.

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MC, if the hawks were to trade jamal, do u think anyone would be a interested in giving up a productive point guard or “impact center” for him, and if so, any names u had in mind?

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Enter your comments here

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Jamal Crawford for Rudy Fernandez and Andre Miller, make it happen.

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I like the way he’s talking.. Drew seems to be wanting the Hawks to play the kind of basketball I’m watching Coach K’s US team playing. Tough-nosed defense and motion offense… I literally cannot wait if this is what they come out playing. We need to stop worry about getting exploited and start doing our own exploiting.

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Its seams to me that you talk loud but its no truth to what you say. I ask for an explanation as why you feel that why and then you say we always have a lopsided exit. I think that these other teams are good on paper but they are going to show us what they have under the hood, because we are a good team on the court not just paper

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truthspitter,

Dave Cowens – 6′ 9″ – 230

Wes Unseld – 6′ 7″ – 245

Both in the Hall of Fame and both named among the 50 greatest players in the NBA. Size doesn’t matter as much as heart, desire, and basketball savvy.

Horford has all three.

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I still don’t believe that we have the depth of Boston, Miami, Orlando, and maybe even Chicago go compete for anything serious.

We are still in need of a true C and a better SF who can score 15-20 points and average 5-8 rebounds.

Why can’t we trade Marvin, Evans and next year’s draft pick to Philly for Hawes. He is still very young and a great prospect. Philly would definitely go for it, because they have Brand.

PG- Teague/Bibby
SG- Crawford/ Crawford
SF- JJ/ Pape Sy
PF- Smith/ Powel/ Thomas
C- Horford/ Hawes/ Zaza

Now, this team looks pretty deep to me.

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Drew speaks about defense, and candidly so (without giving up any insider plans). Of course, it’s more fun to be smartass about it, so why bother saying anything positive?

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I’ve been waiting to hear more about drew’s defensive, but my basketball IQ is not high enough to start an intelligent discussion focused on the defense. Help me out.

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Sleepy,

Co-sign all the way. Great post.

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Defense;
sorry Rev, you may have already turned in for the eve.

Rev, I’ll not get into X’s & O’s because NBA rules affect
defense much more than offense.
For example; HS or collegiate teams play man to man with
zone principles. (help side defense) NBA defensive 3 second
rules severely limit this strategy.
Therefore what LD is doing is demanding a mind-set [attitude]
or hard nosed mentality as opposed to trickeration or finesse.
Bob Knight always said there are two types of [defensive]coaches:
(1) surprise & change = Dean Smith
(2) do one thing, but do it “well” = Bob Knight fit this category.
*or even Jim Boeheim fit category #(2) as a zone coach.

One thing LD needs to do is ensure that Joe is on board.
He cannot let Joe slide. Joe must become the toughest SOB
on the team. Joe may not be verbal but he must be the best
and toughest defender/stopper on the team.
Why?
Simple, he makes the most money.
Joe has never been asked to do the dirty work.
I’ll ask anyone on this board…..have you ever seen Joe
dive for a loose ball?
Now – he must, he has to, there’s no other way.
Josh works his tail off on defense every night.
You wonder why Josh gets his ass up on his shoulders sometimes.
Figure it out.
There is -no- star system on defense.

I’ll close with this;
I don’t particularly care for Kobe, but I *respect him.
*[basketball]
He has figured out how to lead.
With the exception of Artest – Kobe’s their best defender.
Nuff said I’m out.

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Grandad . . . so when JJ is asked to guard 3 positions within a course of a game, that isn’t doing the dirty work? Wasn’t JJ the one that had to eventually cool off Brandon Jennings and John Salmons in the Milwaukee series?

And NO . . I don’t want JJ diving for loose balls ( or Smoove for that matter ), and risking injury . . . unless we’re talking about a game coming down the stretch. Diving for loose balls look great for TV, but that’s not what defense is all about.

To be honest Grandad, the guy who should be doing all of that, is Marvin Williams. He’s the guy that has the tools to become the “defensive specialist” on this team.

Jordan wasn’t diving all over the place for loose balls, it was Dennis Rodman. Magic wasn’t either, it was Kurt Rambis. Kobe doesn’t do it, Ron Artest does. The least talented offensive player amongst the starters ( or a “energy guy” off the bench ), usually does those hard-nosed defensive plays.

As I said in the last blog ( before I knew this one was up ), JJ and Smoove ( at times ) are very lackadasical defensive players, even if those two are our better defensive players.

Smoove, instead of playing his man and preventing him from driving, will give him a cushion to either take a shot or drive . . . so that he can get a block. And his closeouts on shooters are horrid. That’s not good defense.

JJ only seems to really lock in on his man, if he’s another big time player. Lesser 2 guards tend to have big games vs JJ, because he doesn’t lock in on them until it’s “money time”. And while he’s our best perimeter defender, his closeouts are weak as hell sometimes.

Drew not only have to challenge guys to be more accountable for their own defense, he has to figure out if this team is better off playing our best defensive guys down the stretch, or our best offensive guys.

We DO know a few things about this team regarding defense:

- The team defense become non-existant, the minute Josh Smith leaves a game

- Crawford and Bibby struggle against quick guards

- This team, in general, doesn’t box out well, even when they were in position.

- The entire team closes out on shooters poorly ( Smoove and JJ mainly )

- Outside of Smoove, we have guys who don’t challenge shots at the rim.

- Smoove, Marvin, and Horford tend to play weak vs more physical teams.

- The bench last year didn’t stop ANBODY.

If Drew can somewhat bottle up the defense this team played in Game 6 vs Milwaukee in that 3rd quarter, and apply that mindset in the last 5 minutes of games, the Hawks may have a chance to be a serious threat in the East. If not, we’re still going to get a good, but schizophrenic defensive team that can lose to anybody on the road.

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interesting … I made my last comment before reading
G-Daddy
NorthCyde

Who both touched on loose balls!
We are definitely on the same page guys.

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beyond the call of duty

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You people are on crack if you can’t see the Hawks are going to be a sorry team this year. They will finish 6th in the East at best. The Bucks and the Bulls have passed the Hawks with quality depth.That “DumbSundofaGM” killed this team with resigning Marvin mainly, but Bibby and Zaza on a smaller level. We are too small on the inside and none of our guards care to play D. I explained that before, quit being stupid and asking people to explain the same thing over and over. We are too small, don’t care to play D, and have absolutely zero heart as a team and that too no quality depth. 1st round sweep coming. Then you will finally see. Watch 82 regular season games to get to the big anti-climax. They will bend over and take it as usual. Sweep, sweep, sweep.

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Sorry, you’ve got to dive on the floor… Shoot, even Larry Bird would dive on the floor and sale out and do it! Gosh, I’ve even seen Kobe do it!

Best quote of the year,,,
“A fanatical devotion to shutting down opponents is a trait of all true contenders. Atlanta’s lack of that quality has to rank at least alongside strategy and personnel as a major reason the Hawks have been a middling defensive team.”

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LOL @ Najeh’s 4.41AM post!

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truthspitter,

Even if the Bulls and Bucks have better depth than the Hawks, that does not automatically mean that they will finish ahead of the Hawks.

If the Hawks stay fairly injury free, I think they will end up with a better record than the Bulls and Bucks.

I agree that the Hawks have to change their mindset, because they are soft, and have not bought in to playing defense. I agree that Marvin really needs to step it up too.

However, a first round sweep? I don’t think so.

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@ Hmmm…
FIBA requires international transfer of players to be done by legal paper (hard copies).

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@JSS thanks, I should’ve read your comment b4 posting lol.

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“Damn, I am so tired of all the rehashing and speculation. I literally tried to think of something to say, but I can’t.”

- Najeh Davenpoop

Maybe just get back on Shaq’s jock, where you have been swanging for the last month?!

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I don’t know Rod and I never said I hated the team, but I do hate Marvin as a basketball player. He is garbage, urine, and the stuff that comes from your backhole all together. I wish he would just quit stealing money, he also a thief. I hate him as a basketball player. So sorry that it makes me sick of hating him.

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We should all go to the 1st game and chant “your a bust” every time Marvin touches the ball. I hate him as a basketball player.

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Truthspitter, I’m available for anger-management counseling. lol.

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Your’re wrong for that spitter.

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@ Hmmm….
You’re welcome…

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Does this mean even JJ and Bibby will have to guard ?

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Marvin is a disappointment, however, he is far from being a major problem in our roster.

He was not called to be part of the offense, which consisted in a series of ISO plays, something which he is not capable or confident to do.

It’s true that he should have been more active, crashing the boards and banging since he has the physical tools to do it, however, he was supposed to be waiting in the corners spreading the D potentially to receive the kick out pass in order for him to shoot.

Sekou reported that when he was in a huge shooting funk he practiced his shot even harder.

IMO it was clearly a mind block since although his shooting mechanics was good his release was always too late (when he was already coming down).

I am not saying – by all means – that I have confidence that he will be a player which will justify the #2 spot in the draft, however, he is not a bust in the same league as Kwame, Darko, etc.

He is a very serviceable player who plays disciplined D – although he should be a bit more earnest at times – and I am confident that he will be more active under Drew: not necessarily a lot more productive in numbers but more effective in the little things we need him to do: get more loose balls, more steals, more put backs, more rebounds and in general play with more energy.

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Nothing new to say really until the season begins. Except uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Good luck Atlanta Dream and Team USA.

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Clyde’s tampon,

That was funny lmao!! It just boggles the mind how some of these people saw Shaq as the important piece that this team needed smh. Only thing Shaq could lead any team in these days is most trips to Magic City.

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It will be interesting to watch Drew develop as a head coach. I suspect that most first time coaches have “their way” but then they are forced to make adjustments. I could see how the constant switching would allow players (likely the backcourt) to become lazy with their defensive assignments. But I think that speaks more to the players and less to the scheme. Fans are more apt to acknowledge a physical liability if it is size related (e.g. folk excuse Horford if he is abused in the post by Yao) but are less forgiving with agility limits. Bibby can try harder but he will ultimately fail against quick PGs. Jamal is not likely going to become an effective defender against other SGs just because he thinks of himself as a defensive stopper. The reason why Thibs and other recognized defensive gurus land promotions is because they install team defensive schemes that “hide” weaknesses of certain players. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are not making anyone’s all defensive squad. But using Rondo, KG and Perkins to help them out results in an outstanding TEAM defense.

I also wonder what can be done to improve our transition defense, because there will surely be more turnovers with the new offensive scheme and therefore the Hawks will be forced to defend more lay-up opportunities than previously. Our backcourt (and Marvin) need to be prepared to hustle back at all times, something we didn’t always see last season. It would have been nice to have another high-flying forward with elite shot-blocking skills to sprint down the floor and help with the transition defense. Someone like, oh, I don’t know, Jarvis Varnado. Josh Smith can’t play 48 minutes a game.

Again, it will be interesting to watch Drew learn and grow in the position. The good news is that in Atlanta, a high scoring 45 win team is likely to deliver more revenue than a 50 win team that defends very well and has an average offense. And this franchise needs revenue.

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MC,

When does camp start and any knowledge who will be at the start of camp?

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MC: With Pape being the 14th player, do you anticipate a 2 for 1 trade (with Jamal being the key player) so that the Hawks end up with only 13 players? Or do you think that they will simply add Pape? I find it hard to believe that they would have went so hard after Pape just to add a 14th player. I feel that they have additional moves in mind.

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Once again, give Marvin this one last year. Unlike the rest of you, I’m one of those who believes that Marvin will step up his game this season. Im on the band wagon of Teague becoming our starting point guard and Marvin improving his averages noticeably.

Will he live up to the expectations of being a #2 pick? Like a Kevin Durant? Ofcourse not. Thats not what I’m saying at all. I just believe he will improve to the point where hes helping the team alot.

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woodys switching defense gave all of them an out,no one was held accountable how good could they have been in that mess. drew in order to be successful has to hold each player accountable which means sitting them down if they dont perform. i think bibby is incapable ,al need to get way more aggresive joe has to move quicker & show more heart. i think that joe needs to move up to sf as he dont have the quickness to guard sg. zaza,jc and js would benefit from some help from a defensive specalist. js has great atheltic talent but it seems he lacks something. he doesnt even seem to know how to use his body to block out for rebounds. i also think that he tends to play soft at times offensively. he should be jamming more than taking finesse shots when he is close to the basket. no one would stop him without fouling him & he would shoot a way higher % of his shots

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Oh, by the way, since I mentioned Granger, here are his 09-2010 clutch stats (less than 5 points difference between teams during final 5 minutes of regulation and or overtime – some stats are per 48 minutes of clutch):

IND Granger G24 Minutes 69 (+-) -37 (+-)-26 FGA per 48 min 22.4 FG% .250 3ptA per 48min 8.4 3pt%.167 FTA per 48 min 14.0 FT% 85% PP48min 24.5 Assisted points 37% RP48min 4.2 AP48min 2.1 TOp48min 3.5 Blocksper48min 0.7 STLS per 48min 0.0

Not particularly impressive I must say…

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vava74-”You should look into the stats before you pass judgment: Marvin (in particular during the 08-09 season) got to the FT line at an excellent pace, in particular if we take into consideration the number of touches.”

I see the stats like everyone else here; my FT issue is with Joe and really, Smoove. Just because I mention Marvin doesn’t mean I don’t know his FT%. He hit 81%. For this team, Joe doesn’t have enough attempts because he is not as agressive as other team leaders (which is what is expected of Joe) and Smoove left a lot of points at the line. And no one on this team IMO did less than what Marvin did given the minutes he was handed.
Marvin has yet to be threatened for playing time. Wonder why that is? It simply looks bad to have the #2 pick in a draft chosen over franchise PGs to have to earn his playing time.

Give me another servicable forward and the numbers are similar: See Matt Barnes.

Marvin is average; he gives us what he gives us, 12/7? Those numbers, while not embarrassing, should be better based on the expectations levied upon him. He should be the #2 option on this team. From what I can tell, he is between the 4th and 5th option.

Will that change? Who knows, but LD has to say something to differentiate between him and Woody. And if LD is that much different, what has he been doing on the bench all these years?
You gotta wonder who was giving management the information to get Woody to his recliner? It doesn’t sound like it was the players.

And Vava, I take Granger over Marvin any day. I don’t see anyone considering Marvin for Team USA participation.

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vava74,

“The fact that he can average double figures, 5 rebounds and defend his position better than average makes him a serviceable SF. His stats are not too different from, for instance, Tayshaun’s.”

I could care less about him being seviceable. It really should not be that hard to average double figures as a pro when you are left wide open, or unguarded most of the time. There is no comparison to him with Tayshaun defensively. Tayshaun is a 2 or 3 time all second team defender in the NBA, who was asked to lock down the other teams best player at the 1,2 or 3 and did it well in playoff situations. Marvin can’t say that.

“7 million for Marvin may be overpaying him, however, it’s not by much given they way the market works.”

It is when you could have gotten another servicable player that could do as well or better than him for 5 to six million dollars less per. You could have locked up Chills for 2 to 3 mill less per year.

“Should we have waited to see if anyone made an offer leaving the market to set the bar?”

No one else made an offer, and no other team would have been dumb enough to offer that kind of money. We bid against ourselves.

“Up until now it seems that this has failed to produce a positive result on Marvin, however, I am willing to wait a year more.”

Yo can continue to wait until the cows come home. You are entitled to your opinion. I just choose to make mine based on what I see and my knowledge of the game. In my personal opinion, for the Atlanta Hawks team as constructed, Marvin is a huge bust. All of are other draft picks who are still on the team, have improved except him, and he was expected to be the best player of all of them. That’s a bust to me. Danny Granger should not even be mentioned in the same sentence basketball wise as Marvin period. No team would leave Danny Granger open like they do Marvin. Danny Granger can finish at the rim, in traffic, Marvin can’t. Danny Granger commands double teams Marvin doesn’t. Danny Granger often is asked to guard the best players on other teams defensively, Marvin can’t. Around the league Granger is considered a much better player than Marvin in almost all facets of the game.

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Truth-Spitter, you are starting to sound like another person on this blog with the same initials. Just replace Horford’s name for Marvin.

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I love Horford as a basketball player. What’s wrong with him. He has basically averaged a double double his whole career.

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Enter your comments here

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If you’re okay with:

1) A 6′9″ 240 pound guy who is a starter on your team.

2) 10 points and 5 rebounds a game

3) Average hustle and defense

4) For $7.5 million a year

Then….you don’t have much in the way of aspirations.

For the longest time, pundits said that the Hawks strengths lay in the length and athleticism of it’s young frontcourt. It’s true. But if one of your starting frontcourt members isn’t carrying his weight, then that length and athleticism is often wasted. Marvin need not average 20 ppg. If he became a lock-down, nasty defender who also dove for balls and tried to make plays the way Childress always did, we’d be better off already. It would even help us against bigger teams, because who has what it takes to try and track down and keep a body on three athletic 6′9″ forwards?

Why you think Josh and Al are hollering for help right now?

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I hoped for Marvin to be our answer against LeBron in the ‘08 playoffs. After I saw him and Joe Johnson look really bad against LeBron, I quit having high hopes.
I have heard exhaustion from too many regular season minutes, no offensive scheme, every excuse in the book to protect these guys.
I am still waiting since ‘04 for the #2 pick in the draft to be a leader on this team despite us having enough forwards at the time.
Be realistic; if Marvin left today, would we really miss him? The only highlight I remember Marvin having was a game against the ‘06 Heat where he went to dunk on a drive and Shaq rejected him and the ball. Marvin ended up on his back in a hard fall, and I am not sure he has recovered from that drive to the basket yet.
Marvin

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AstroJoe, you are so right…i must have been thinking about the regular season with Cleveland. Since he was injured and not able to be a factor in the playoffs, he gets a couple of more runs at it.

I just see him as ‘having’ to be the defensive presence for this team for them to go further.

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Thought for Today:

Since there are Goats on every NBA team who falls short in pursuit of the Larry O’Brien Trophy, why are the Hawks any different?

Thought for Tomorrow:

Let not your heart be troubled, if you believe in “The Truth”, then believe also that the “The Truth” will always comes to light regardless of your opinions and predictions.

Thought for Next Week:

In the seasons of a basketball player, it doesn’t matter whether he yin or yang, they are both inseparable.

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Grandad

September 7th, 2010
2:54 pm

Enthusiastic Co-Sign!
Nuff’ Said.

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KevinM, no doubt. The only way the Hawks improve is if their Sacred Core gets better, because unlike other franchises, improving externally isn’t a viable option. So we are forced into a position where every player needs to optimize their talent. And Marvin is at (or near) the top of that list. I fully expect him to meet his contract value next season (which is different than meeting his original draft selection value).

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Yeah, some thoughts over time never change….the more I read and find out about Marvin, the more I continue to hope he has a breakout year. It will take a big change of heart from this core to see a difference. They have to develop an attack personna and demand other teams’ respect.
First up, Washington. You can’t get out of the gate slow IMO. This fan base will chew up and spit out this team if they don’t show the changes that LD wants to incorporate.

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Hate to do this to you vava74 but these are your thoughts.

“vava74

June 18th, 2009
8:04 pm
Ariose,

Thank you for the link to Marvin’s highlight reel.

Obviously if you look only at selected footage you don’t get a clear picture BUT you can conclude by seeing this one that Marvin has the complete package, a very unique inside-outside game, since he can slash and can drain the 3, as well as play both positional defence (one on one) and poach the passing lanes.

People have to realise that Marvin should be the 2nd option in the Hawks offence and that J-Smoove should be a role player, blocking, rebounding and running the fast break to dunk which is all that is talented to do (he has developed a few moves around the basket and he should be rewarded with a few touches).

I love J-Smoove, but I can only accept him to stay if he accepts the fact that his talents are limited and mostly derived from his spectacular physical hability which should still allow him to produce 15ppg 12rbg 3bpg 3 apg.

Marvin is much more complete offensively since he can finish both strong or smooth to the rim and he can stop and pop hitting both the mid-range jumper or the 3.

He reminds me a bit of James Worthy but with legitimate 3 point range.”

Second scoring option huh. J-Smooth a role player? Ok. Marvin is a complete offensive player? You guys wonder why I attack you everytime you post such nonsense. This is why. Your post show that you have know idea how to grade players or determine ability. You simply want to post stats or shooting percentage and think that that will suffice. Hunger, desire, will and determination to be great are not reflected in stats. Marvin shows none of those qualities.

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@ Clyde…
Hey AJC, where in the heck is a Dream Blog? Shoot, in less than 3 years they are doing something that Hawks, Falcons, and Thrashers have only pretended to do, be clutch in the Playoffs!
Dream big ladies, Dream big!!!

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Scrolling & Rolling!

Najeh Davenpoop said it best in the wee hours of the morning!
There is nothing else to say except:

Press Rewind & Replay the Tape.
So, I have been Scrolling & Rolling until something worth mentioning happens!

I for one am NOT – The Orator of the Obvious.
It gives me migraines.

Falcons play Pittsburgh this Sunday – Yeah!
The Atlanta Dream – Is a Dream come True! Go Dream Go!
Ben Rothlisberger 4 Game suspension has been reduced? WHY?
(aren’t 2 rape accusations worse than Pac-Man “Makin’ it Rain?”
and Lying about dog-fighting?

Go – Figure!

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* and Mike Vick lying about dog fighting.

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Atlanta Hawks are boring Ha HA the Dream may make it to to the finals quicker they have only been in existence for 3 years just pathetic by the Hawks.

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Michael (free booty) con & H a m

September 7th, 2010
4:14 pm

“Horford and Hawks hoping they have enough guys who can do this…” – get dominated by Howard? Go a whole year with out shutting down an opposing center? Have a career 12pt average? Finish 25th among centers for block shots?

Michael (free booty) con & H a m

September 7th, 2010
4:18 pm

Yeah management is stupid and thats why the hawks cant be champions. The offense was on par with the lakers while the defense was… well you never going to win a championship with your center rated as # 25 among centers for shot block and 60% of the people who attempted shots over horford in the low post scored… those who did not often got to the free throw stripe seeing he commits 3 fouls for every 1 block shot. Defensively he reminds me of a live fish on the beach just flopping around….

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“if you’re okay with:

1) A 6′9″ 240 pound guy who is a starter on your team.

2) 10 points and 5 rebounds a game

3) Average hustle and defense”

WHERE AS A. HO. MAY BE AVERAGE HE IS AT 12 PTS CAREER AND 8.7 RBS. YET FREE BOOTY CON & HAM POSTS A PICTURE OF HIM DAILY!

4) For $7.5 million a year

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If you cant stop it then STFU!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocaatPvI90k

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This is for all the josh haters like Mike free booty Cunningham

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wkn01olV9I&feature=fvst

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Like those mixes of j smoove mike

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Vava u need to shut up. First off who was doin alll our defense last year. Who was the only guy with 2 bpg and 1 spg? J smooove!!!!!!!!!!!

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and vava j smoooove!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! averaged more points than marvin the “dead weight” williams by about 5 points. He sellls more tickets. and i think sorry know that he is our dominique wilkins

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vava74

Are you saying Granger couldn’t guard a locked door?

roflmao

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“L.D. probably wouldn’t consider this a ’switchable switch’.” – MC

smh -_-

Thank Goodness it’s over.

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Good post Grandad.

But I hate to break this to you . . . but the entire team is soft. But of you want to focus on JJ, that’s cool.

Ever since he broke his face in Phoenix during the playoffs, JJ has been a passive-aggressive player that would rather use finesse to beat you, than by being physical and throwing his body at you.

And although he shoots the floater in the lane as well as any player in the league, when that shot isn’t falling, or when this team needs points to stop a run, that’s when JJ needs to go hard to the hole and draw a foul to get to the FT line.

But have JJ do more of the “dirty work” on defense? OK cool.

But you better hope that Drew’s offensive system makes it significantly easier for JJ to score on offense. Because if it doesn’t, the only thing you’re going to have come playoff time, is an even more tired JJ, and possibly more nagging injuries.

So JJ will have to:

- guard SGs
- guard PGs and SFs when our other guys can’t
- guard athletic/shooter PFs when Smoove is in foul trouble
- create his own shot 60% of the time
- be one of the top 2 primary three point threats
- hit wide open jumpshots
- be the primary facilitator in the motion offense
- get to the FT line more
- give up his body more on defense ( dive for balls, take charges, etc )
- play more physical overall
- be more of a vocal leader
- be the primary lockdown perimeter defender at the end of games
- be the primary go-to-guy on offense at the end of games

Cool.

Just understand Grandad, that these are SUPERSTAR RESPONSIBILITIES that will be ( or already have been ) bestowed upon JJ.

And superstars in this league don’t get treated like the 8th man on the team. You sure in the heck don’t get on JJ the same way you’d get on Mo Evans, just so Mo’s feelings won’t get hurt.

Nah Grandad. If you want Drew to “crack the whip” on our star players, just to make the bench players feel equal to them, then that’s not even reality.

Cause the facts are that the Hawks starting unit was a top 5 efficiency unit for most of the year, while our bench was a bottom 10 efficiency unit for most of the year.

The effort from JJ, Smoove, and Al doesn’t concern me. It’s the effort from the non-core guys that I’m worried about. They’re the ones who played like crap last year, while . .

- JJ was 3rd team All-NBA
- Smoove was 2nd in Defensive Player of the Year voting
- Horford made the All-Star team
- and Crawford was the 6th Man of the Year.

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That’s why I used to laugh at the whole “Woody’s Doghouse” comments back in the day. What were the players on Woody’s Doghouse? The players who played poorly and/or inconsistent. Poor Zaza . . Poor Shelden . . Poor Salim . . Poor Acie . . Poor Jason Collins . . they were all in the “doghouse”

Nah . . what the Hawks need, is for someone outside of JJ, Smoove, Horford, and Crawford to step up and fill a SPECIFIC NEED.

That’s what I want Drew to do, SPECIFICALLY define roles for our role players. A “caste system”? Definitely. Shooters should shoot. Slashers should slash. Bangers should bang.

If you don’t do your job, and you’re a role player, then you sit the bench. That’s why they call them “role players”. They play supporting roles to supplement the team.

Yeah, implement that “Caste System” . . or better yet . . . a “Cast System”, and put all non-productive players in a cast and let them ride the pine.

If Etan outplays Zaza, then I want Etan playing. If Jordan outplays Mo, then I want Jordan playing. And if Teague isn’t ready, well he just isn’t ready.

Non-productive role players shouldn’t expect equal treatment to star or productive players.

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LOL @ Mo crybaby poopypants Evans

Exactly.

I mean, how dare him expect more playing time, with the way he played last year.

I will never forget that brick lay-up on a fast break that he shot in ( I think Game 1 ) in Orlando, when we were getting the hell beat out of us.

That lay-up went . . . . (( CLUNK ))

I was mad that we were losing, but I burst out laughing when I saw that.

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No mention of the Hawks bench…

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17266

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Rod

If I am a clown I hoped your watched your boy Josh QUIT in the Bucks series and the Magic series…

The Bucks series he opened his MOUTH but didn’t have the BALLS to back it up..

The Magic series he was getting his lunch handed to his by Lewis and Quit again when somebody slapped him in his LITTLE EYE.

If Marvin is overpaid making 7.5mil, the Josh the Quitter is overpaid making 12mil.

7.5mil Softy or a 12mil Quitter…..You choose!!!

I AM SORRY THE WHOLE TEAM IS SOFT, SO THAT WOULD MAKE JOSH A SOFT QUITTER….

PS blocking shots doesn’t make you tough, neither does spectacular DUNKS.

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*itemizing*…..not…..itemiz[e]ing
I should have dropped the ‘e’.
I’m gonna blame Mrs. Grandad.

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MC

How tall is Pape Sy for real?

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The Dream advance to the Eastern Conference Finals and what’s on the front page of the sports section on ajc.com. BRAVES SLIP INTO SECOND PLACE.

Where is the respect?

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She was a beast tonight. New WNBA post-season record with 42pts = beastmode. Pondexter wasn’t far behined though. I thought the Mercury trading her this past off-season was a bad idea. especially after coming off of a WNBA title.

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I hope Joe Johnson was watching tonight WNBA game in which Angel McCoughtry scored 42 to lead her team to the Finals. Naw he was probably at Magic City trickin’ off his new contract money.

Real Leaders Step Up To Lead Their Team To Victory In The Playoffs Joe.

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“Naw he was probably at Magic City trickin’ off his new contract money.”

^This is more than likely true…

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Isn’t Joe’s career high 42? lol Step ur game up Joe. Hahahaha!

Angel > Joe

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We seem to have a lot of FAKE FANS who have all of these personal agendas against the HC, owners, GM, and certain Hawk players. They spend the entire yr whining and crying about shear stupidity in most cases. They question the OFF/DEF of Hawk players they dislike, while ignoring the almost total lack of OFF/DEF of ones they like. They question the aggressiveness and toughness of the team and certain players, as if the 2 time consecutive NBA champion Lakers are known for being some kind of physical team with so much doggone physical toughness.

All of these narrow minded, one dimensional approaches, seeming to have the total inability to see more than one approach to playing, coaching and managing basketball. They can have so many questions about the ability of JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Teague, Jordan Crawford, JCollins, but seldom Bibby for some strange reason.

Yet, they have no doubt or questions whatsoever about any potential adjustment, chemistry issues or ability of new players acquired by the Celtics, Bucks, Bulls, Heat and Magic, to fit right in and perform at or above their previous levels from day one. We have those who are still making an issue of LDrew saying all of the right things, like it’s somehow much more reassuring to have a HC say something wrong, stupid, and totally inappropriate like, “I DON’T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE OFF.”

These same individuals question LDrews potential effectiveness, and/or his ability to motivate the players into to buying into his OFF/DEF philosophy and systems. Yet, not one of these negative minded individuals has made an issue of the Bulls new first time HC, or his ability to motivate his players, and/or get them to buy into his new OFF/DEF systems and philosophy. Before training camp has even started, these individuals have already indicated they think the Bulls have already made up the 12 gms they finished behind the Hawks last season, and will suffer no injuries, nor have any adjustment or chemistry problems whatsoever.

ACCORDING TO THESE NEGATIVE MINDED, GLASS HALF EMPTY INDIVIDUALS, THE ATLANTA HAWKS ARE THE ONLY EASTERN CONFERENCE TEAM THAT WILL HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE OF ITS PLAYERS, POTENTIAL CHEMISTRY AND ADJUSTMENT PROBLEMS, INJURIES, PLAYER AND HEAD COACHING ISSUES, AS WELL AS OFF/DEF ISSUES. WITH FANS LIKE THESE, WHO NEEDS ADVERSARIES?

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The Dream are in the WNBA Finals and they still don’t have a fan blog on ajc.com. SMGDH. Maybe “LiL Ray” needs to change his blog from a Hawks blog to a Dream blog.

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Ken Strickland,

That was hands down the best post I’ve seen all year!!!! I cannot for the life of me understand why some of these “supposedly” Hawks fans waste so much time out of there precious little lives to come on here and spew such GARBAGE. I MEAN IF THE HAWKS ARE SO BAD AND THEY ARE ALREADY DESTINED TO FINISH WORST THAN THEY DID LAST YEAR…THEN WHY ARE YOU EVEN WASTING YOUR TIME ON THE BLOG, ON THIS TEAM???…GO JOIN THE HEAT BANDWAGON!!!!

ITS ABOUT TIME SOMEONE CALLED THESE “FAKE” FANS OUT!!!!!!

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Clyde,

Not really speaking for Ken S, but I want to believe he is saying that give the Hawks another year with LD and his GREAT idea of an OFF/DEF system. Ken also have told everyone here time and time again that the ASG/Sund still have up til the trade deadline to make changes if ness. So Clyde, yes, you should be at least a little excited that we no longer have Woodson to mess things up with all but 1 OFF play in ISO JOE and with his constant switching DEF. The “little excitement” should be there cause we still have an opportunity to get some really great players mid season b4 trade deadline. Now does that make ya happy??

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MsDee do you know how many times I’ve heard give it another year?

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Grandad, I see what you’re saying. I just disagree with it somewhat

Drew is going to have very little problem getting JJ, Smoove, and Horford to buy into whatever philosophy he imposes on the team. Those are probably the 3 main guys wanting Drew to coach them anyway.

JJ has always been “all in” with the Hawks, contrary to popular belief. The only thing he needs to prove next season, is that he can consistently play at a high level in the playoffs. In the regular season, that guy was on point, especially out on the road. He had 7 or 8 MONSTER games out on the road, in which we still lost the game. I guess leading by example didn’t matter in those games.

JJ is not the one to worry about. He’ll buy ( or has already bought into ) Drew’s systems and lead by the example that Drew wants him to lead by. So will Smoove and Horford.

*******

The REAL problem is the rest of the team. And most of the people on this blog knows it. That’s why people have been pizzed by the underwhelming moves the front office made all summer. They will determine if we’re simply a good playoff level team, or a potential championship contender.

I hope he does, but I don’t expect Drew to come in here and perform miracles, especially not with the bench. Some of these players simply can’t ball ( anymore ), or have always been inconsistent ballplayers, ot may be just too young to contribute on a playoff level team. So it’s going to be up to OUR Big 3 + Crawford ( if he’s here ) to get it done on most nights.

Bibby has lost the trust of the fan base. Marvin is very close to losing that trust as well. But they’ll be forgiven somewhat, if they start making shots again.

All I know, is that if Jordan Crawford, Pape Sy ( if he comes over ), and Jeff Teague prove to be solid options off the bench, Drew better not hesitate to play those young guys. Because the older guys that we have rounding out the bench are HIGHLY suspect as players, and have proven that for years.

Everybody isn’t going to play ( or flat out can’t play ), so Drew will need to find at least 4 people off that bench that he can trust.

Jamal is one . . who will be the other 3?

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In all 6 years he was here, I can ONLY recall 1 OFF and 1 DEF.

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northcyde

We’re in accordance.
I was never knocking Joe.
I’m really pullin’ for LD.
I know, for him to succeed,
Joe must do everything which he expects of the others.
Just sayin’, they all gotta pull the same direction;
and one doesn’t get to sit on the wagon.
If it were me, [and it's not] I would have no role for Bibby.
I also fear that he will become a distraction.
Once again, LD “MUST” impose his will on the team.

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The Truth,
Saw that Snipes/Denero movie. Great post. Very interesting movie.

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KevinM,

Look at Marvin’s FTA in 2008/09 when he played more minutes and got more touches.

It’s one thing he did ok. Get to the line and convert.

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Good defensive teams not only play well straight up but are not hesitant to help out their mates when the situation calls for it. I kind of wonder if it may have been a case in the past for the Hawks where guys were saying, “If nobody’s going to give me help then I ain’t giving nobody help on their guy either.” I actually do recall seeing games where that definitely appeared to be the case. Thus, the obligatory switching defense was put into effect. Just a theory, mind you because surely other factors were involved not the least of which being that it was Woody’s strategic proclivity to switch.

The other part of the defensive equation is mindset. You can’t have 5 Ilya Kovalchuks out there on the floor at any given time and expect to get the stops you need on defense. I love Ilya (I do realize he’s gone to those Devils) and I love offense but you have to be willing to play the tight D even if you are a scorer, if your team is to have the best chance of winning the most games.

I know this is nothing earth shattering to anyone reading this but just a harmless observation about the D, which I hope that Coach L.D. can improve on. You never know.

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Dang truthspitter,

Did Marvin not share his ‘goodies’ with you?? cause u are riding his joc!!

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Drew sounds good. At least he’s thinking about the right things.

One thing that is under control is how much energy and thought each and every player can put into their own training into becoming the best athlete and ballplayer available. I have to think of Rajon Rondo as someone who decided to step up his game. Tim Duncan. Any Hawk who wants to step up to the next level can work and work to perfect their game. The impact will be seen and felt immediately when hey step on the floor.

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WOW!! the atlanta dream is about to bring the first championship of any kind to atlanta. DREAM MAKE THE WNBA FINALS. lol.

go dream!!

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Go Dream !!! Hats off to Dream coach Marynell Meadors. How many coaches would make a major lineup change prior to the first playoff game? Meadors benched starting Center (DeSouza) and Point Guard (Lehning) and went with a small lineup (4 guards and a power forward). The results – 4 wins and a trip to the finals. Good thing Woody wasn’t coaching this team……….

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CLYDE-Yes, the Hawks got swept in the 2nd round in last yrs playoffs and are returning 10 of players from last yrs roster. Tell me CLYDE, wasn’t the Celtic team we swept all 4gms last yr the same team that came within an unfortunate injury to KPerkins from winning the NBA title?

When your team finishes 3rd in the Eastern Conference, wins 53gms, and actually makes it to the 2nd rd for the 2nd consecutive yr, WHY IN HELL WOULDN’T YOU WANT TO BRING THAT CORE OF PLAYERS BACK? I’m shocked that you, of all people, can’t grasp the tremendous overall improvement of having MWoodson and his limitations out, and LDrew and his innovations in.

DOS HAWKQUIS-That’s exactly why LDrew was hired to replace Woodson. They wanted to rid themselves of all the negatives that were in place under Woodson, without sacrificing any of the positives. They also wanted to minimize any potential adjustment and/or chemistry issues that might have occurred if an outsider had been hired.

Unlike Woodson, LDrew seems to be excited about taking on the total responsibilities and requirements of being a HC.

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More fuel to the Hawks-optimist after standing pat during a playoff disaster:

NBA.com grades the Hawk’s offseason: C+

They are being generous.

MC, any word on how the season ticket sales are going for the LD Extreme Makeover?

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KevinM,

5 year season ticket holder, and I am not renewing this year. I know a number of other season ticket holders who are not renewing this year either. Some because of finances and other issues, and some feel like me, and don’t see the product on the floor being worth spending that kind of money. I would be willing to bet that sales are down, based on the number of calls I have recv’d about renewing.

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Najeh, I had not heard that. great move. They need a former player with credibility to help the players. I had hoped Drew would add someone with those credentials to his staff (I was thinking someone like Darrell Armstrong or Lindsey Hunter). Too bad Salim isn’t around, because he had some Nick@Night type skills.

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Jeff Teague will have a tremendous mentor in Van Exel. Nick was a “lead guard” before that term was created for guys like Teague. If Teague just listens, he will learn a lot about playing the game and mastering his considerable talents. This was a great move by Drew… Van Exel likely gets day-to-day ownership of Teague’s development while Drew stays focused on 13-14 players. Teague needed his own coach and Van Exel should have the credibility to reach the youngster. No more excuses are left for Teague, he should show considerable improvement by the All Star game (or something is wrong with the player).

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Ramon, your logic is as sound as it is intriquing. I agree!

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cp, I often suggested that Salim could be the “next Nick Van Exel”… just to show how wrong I was with predicting player development. But I really like this hire, especially since Van Exel is different than most of the choir boys on our team. He will bring a different perspective and can be the “keeping it real” voice of reason that this still youthful core needs (and has needed for 4-5 years). Thie group has needed a “big brother” with credibility from day one and he has finally arrived. And I really do think that he can do wonders for Teague.

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LD continues to make one sound decision after another.
His statements [quotes] to the media are on point as well.
Logic suggests that he will continue same during the season.

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Clear Path

LD is laying out a clear plan….”Got to love it”

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Nick Van Exel, being a former point guard, is not being brought in to develop Bibby. He is coming to Atl to give Teague every opportunity to grow as fast as possible.

I love this move. Rather than second-guessing whether Teague will be the point guard of the future by bringing in a “back-up plan” point guard, Coach Drew is doubling-down on his confidence in Teague. He is saying, “You are my man and I am investing in your development.”

Teague’s greatest need for growth is in his self-confidence & assertiveness. Van Exel is overflowing with healthy floor leadership attitude.

I wonder if Drew will be happy if Van Exel teaches Teague to make some of his behind the back passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a77Bh0vUPeY

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Nick Van Exel is a good hire, but he still can’t give the Lil Tin Man (Teague) heart.

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Rev

That really was a “Sick shot by Nick Van Exel”. I also notice that Van Excel was drafted round 2 pick # 37. Maybe he can also reassure Pape Sy that success in the NBA doesn’t (necessarily) equate to his draft selection.

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Actually the first thing I thought when I heard about the Van Exel hire was that maybe he would teach Josh Smith to shoot free throws from the top of the key. But yeah, I can’t see how this wouldn’t help Teague, having two accomplished point guards (along with Drew) on the staff.

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doc, grandad’s post was reposted by *A True Hawkes Fan* today. Grandad has interacted with several bloggers since this post was first posted. He is not saying that he “think(s) it all needs to be put in his lap or on his shoulders.” He is talking about leadership & responsibility. The most important step the Hawks need to take on defense is developing mental toughness. JJ must lead from the front so that it will be a SHARED responsibility to play tenacious D.

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I’m on a roll. Who else needs to be set straight?

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I would also like to congratulate the Atlanta Dream on winning the Easter Conference last night. It was a great game if you missed it.

One thing I noticed is that Larry Drew and all his assistants were in attendance, as well as Josh Smith.

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Someone probably brought this up. But, I’d trade Marvin and Crawford for Chris Paul in a heart beat.

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I like the Nick the Quick hire. I’m sure Bibby will help teague out too, but they will be in competition for starting. So bringing in Nick is a good move.

I wonder if Nick can still play?

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Reb. in Tampa – I guess that one flew over my head. My bad.

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Great dialogue between Northcyde and Grandad .

Makes the blog worth reading, even though we have rehashed the hell out of everything.

Word, Najeh ?

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How was it determined that Teague has no heart? smh. I would love to see an explanation on this one.

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Nick Van Exel was a good hire. And for those who don’t remember, dude flourished despite a career FG percentage of 40%.

He did have a career 3-to-1 assist/turnover ratio…..

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KEVINM-your comment is a perfect example of someone who looks for the slightest chance to single out anything they feel can be used to take a negative stance, or make a negative and/or sarcastic comment. Man, I’d really hate to have some of you as teammates, because you’d poison the entire team with your negativity, lack of confidence and/or trust.

The season hasn’t even started yet, and new Hawk HC LDrew is already trying to do everything he can to help his young PG succeed. He certainly didn’t hire SCassell to help Bibby. He’s already hired an assistant to concentrate on building up the DEF.

That’s a far cry from Woodson’s approach to helping his beloved vet PG MBibby and starting SF MWilliams. When they started hurting the team with their lack of consistent production, when questioned about their problems, he simply said, as you already know, I DON’T GAVE A DAMN ABOUT THE OFF. It seems to me LDrew is doing a whole lot more than just SAYING ALL OF THE RIGHT THINGS.

DRMARYB-What’s up lovely lady? I went in for my checkup last week, and everything was just fine. In fact, they gave me another hormone injection, but this time I had some side effects. Man, those hot flashes are rough. I spent several nights either burning up and kicking off the covers, or scrambling to cover up from being cold.

I have no doubt that my attitude has had an affect on my rapid improvement, because it’s served me well throughout my adult life. I jammed my R knee and developed traumatic arthritis about 2yrs after graduating from high school in 1964. In 1968 I entered the Air Force and tore my rotator cuff, which they didn’t know much about, especially overseas. My shoulder got so bad it would pop out frequently, and I’d just pop it back in.

I had to wait about 14-15mos, until I returned to the states, the have it repaired. Because it was so damaged, the socket in my shoulder had to be partially rebuilt, using a procedure called a PUTTI PLATT. A few yrs back, a doctor was talking to an intern about my shoulder, and he said what they did to me was the equivalent of jamming a red hot poker into my shoulder to fused everything together and hold it together. That’s how bad it was.

I was told by one doctor that I’d never play ball again because of my knee, and another doctor told me I wouldn’t be able to do much more than feed and dress myself with my R shoulder, because of its condition. I refused to accept their assessment of what I could or couldn’t do. They only saw me and my conditions from a medical or physical perspective.

I managed to finish the final 2yrs of service, while making both my base and college basketball team. I quit my college team after 5gms because it would have been just a matter of time before I injured it seriously, and I had already proven my point.

I also served 6yrs in the reserves as an Air Cargo specialist at Dobbins Air Force base. I just want you to know that staying positive and not being influenced by the limitations of others is how I roll. I just can’t give into those who in some cases are cowards, insecure, one dimensional, or just limited.

BOTH THE ATLANTA HAWKS AND YOURS TRULY ARE GOING TO OVERCOME AND HAVE A VERY GOOD YR!!!

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@ Rev’s 5:22 post . . . . I would think that’s an accurate description of what Grandad meant . . . which is why I disagreed with him.

JJ has been leading on defense like that ever since he became a Hawk. Anytime you see him guarding a PG quicker than he is, he’s being a defensive leader. He’s guarded ( or tried to guard ) everyone from Nate Robinson to Dirk Nowitzki. Smoove, Horford, and even Marvin don’t shy away from their defensive responsibilities on most nights either. That’s why they play well on most nights as a unit.

Grandad isn’t wrong in what he said. I just think that even though players like Smoove and JJ try to get it done defensively, it doesn’t mean that their defensive mindset will permeate throughout the rest of the team. Especially regarding our bench, who really need to step it up defensively this year.

. . . . and that brings me to Vava and Mo Evans.

What I don’t get, is why do you think that Mo Evans deserve 20+ minutes a game last season? Because of better balance? Better defense? Really?

So with this breakdown in minutes:

SG: Evans ( 23 ) – Crawford ( 25 )
SF: Johnson ( 35 ) – Marvin ( 13 )
PF: Smith ( 38 ) – Marvin ( 10 )

- you’re refusing to give Horford any minutes at PF, and giving them to Marvin

- which in turn would bury Zaza behind Horford, seeing that Al needs at least 35+ minutes of PT

- you’re limiting JJ to playing SF only, eliminatng the size adv he has over small 2’s

- because of the distribution of time at SG, that forces Bibby to play heavy minutes at PG ( 32+ minutes ) . . or Teague into 20+ minutes of duty at point

Final rotation?

PG: Bibby ( 28 ) – Teague ( 20 )
G: Evans ( 23 ) – Crawford ( 25 )
F: Johnson ( 35 ) – Marvin ( 10 )
PF: Smith ( 38 ) – Marvin ( 13 )
C: Horford ( 36 ) – Zaza ( 12 )

Total Minutes: ( 9-man rotation )

Smith ( 38 )
Horford ( 36 )
Johnson ( 35 )
Bibby ( 28 )
Evans ( 23 )

Crawford ( 25 )
Marvin ( 23 )
Teague ( 20 )
Zaza ( 12 )

A lot of fans would actually like this rotation I bet, seeing that Teague gets to play and Marvin’s minutes get reduced even further.

But I ask again, what did Evans do, to deserve 20+ minutes a game? He’s not a better defender than either JJ nor Marvin ( nor Crawford . .. I’ll get to that in a minute. ) And he definitely isn’t a better offensive player. Even his 3 point shot was merely average last year.

And how does his increased PT help contain all of those PGs that lit us up ( and have been lighting us up ) since Mookie left Atlanta?

The truth is, Mo Evans has been playing like garbage ever since D-Wade torched him in the 08 – 09 playoff series. And that 8 – 28 3FG number in those 08 – 09 playoffs, carried over into 09 – 10, with Mo shooting 34% 3FG.

Mo Evans has never been known for his defense. He got his “claim to fame” for being a spot up 3-point shooter. And there’s a reason he’s been on 6 teams in 8 seasons.

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“If one of the greatest free throw shooters (Mark Price) in nba history can’t teach Josh how to shoot free-throws….Who can?…….. Can he?(Van Exel) Will he learn? …(I doubt it)”

I think my reference to Van Exel’s strange free throw shooting style kinda went over your head.

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@ Big Ray’s 7:07 post . . . AMEN!!

Almost every free agent the ASG have brought in, nobody else really wanted. Then the front office asks Woody to turn water into wine. Woody was like, “well . . . I can only turn him into unsweetened kool-aid”.

So if ( insert anyone’s favorite bench player here ) fails to prosper under Drew, don’t blame Drew for him not ballin’.

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northcyde, i aint drinking the kool aide servered up here this summer and bandied about around here just yet on what we had manifested by my boy rick and the askg. i dont have too much of a problem with the first seven, after that it is a crap shoot. i shudder to think, maybe i cant even include bibby in the seven anymore.

WWSU = who will step up? you know there is plenty of space.

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One more jab at Mo Evans.

Let’s look to see how our SGs stack up to Mr. Kobe Byrant defensively, as far as opponent production per 48 minutes.

KOBE . . eFG%: 46.7% . . pts/48 min: 19.1 . . PER: 13.5
JOE . . . eFG%: 48.8% . . pts/48 min: 19.3 . . PER: 15.3
JAMAL . eFG%: 50.9% . . pts/48 min: 22.7 . . PER: 17.3

That looks accurate, right? Kobe is regarded as a very good defensive SG. Joe is a good defensive SG. Crawford is usually looked at as a bad defensive player, although he did play better defense here, than he has anywhere else.

Now let me post Mo’s defensive numbers at SG last year. And I’ll add that this is too small of a sample size to really judge him on, seeing that he played the vast majority of his minutes at SF. Those defensive numbers are horrible, by the way. But here is Mo vs SGs on defense.

MO: eFG%: 54% . . pts/48 min: 24.2 pts . . PER: 19.6

But like I said, don’t judge him on that. Judge him on what he did 3 years ago, the last time he played SG more than SF, when he was in Orlando in 2007 – 08.

2007/08: eFG%: 53.9% . . pts/48 min: 24.1 . . PER: 17.3

Now look at these numbers, and go back and see what Crawford did, and tell me who is the better defender? And even if people still think Mo is, can you remember a player that Mo slowed down?

In fairness to Mo, he was a brilliant spot up shooter in 2007 – 08:

eFG%: 59.9% . . pts/48 min: 19.9 . . PER: 16.5

That 60% eFG% is a BIG TIME number. That’s JJ in 2004 – 05 like in Phoenix. That means that Mo was raining 3s and making them almost as soon as he stepped onto the court. He was an IMPACT SHOOTER off the bench back then.

He hasn’t come close to shooting like that as a Hawk. If he was shooting like that, then you definitely could afford reduce Marvin’s minutes, and essentially give them to Mo.

Stats may not tell you the whole story, but they do give you clues to what a story is about.

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Way back before nc & myself began our dicussion,
someone said LD would eventually go back to Iso-offense
and switching defense,
Reason being – LD would not be able to get the team to do
as he said. -OR- Do his bidding.
My point & still is;
the best way to gain control over a team as a new coach
is to “see to it” that the:
*highest paid player
*highest profile player
*all-star player
*pseudo leader (in this case)
is on board, not shown favoritism, has shared servitude,
has equal respnsibility and accountability.
No more, no less.

Sorry about:
overstressing my overstaement by embellishing the hyperbole.

I don’t know how to make a smiley face!

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“inexorable” – great word! I will have to incorporate it into this Sunday’s sermon. But most people will not know what it means. I’ll just tell them to ask Grandad

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Cant believe some of you guys are still talking bout Salim. lol!

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Hey Rev, Mike Smith has won exactly TWO more games than little Jimmy Mora did during his 1st 2 years in Atlanta. Mora still gets creamed around here, yet Smith is the greatest thing since slice bread. He’s done a pretty good job, but he might be a tad bit overated.

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Rev

“It was one long, anxious, *inexorable, eternal vigil.”
‘Frank James’…….[brother of Jesse]

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I’m anxious to see what the trigger-happy Jordan Crawford does for us. Drew says he will teach him the difference between good shot and bad shot, and that’s a good thing.

However….don’t rein a stallion in too much…and if he’s getting it done, as Northcyde said…let him get the PT.

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CORRECTION:: “make it happen”

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Ms Dee Joe ain’t gonna make sh** happen. He didn’t show up against Cleveland or the Magic the past 2 years and he ain’t gonna show up next year either. He is not a go to scorer he is just a good role player.

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This Grandad must be an above average poster, with number of saliant points judging from all of your comments.

He could be the second coming of Furman Bisher for allI know, because I can’t stand the choppy herky-jerky sentence routine. I can’t read it, it’s like a perpetually stopping dry hump.

If the Hawks win it won’t even be because of Johnson. If the Hawks were to somehow even make it to anything that ends with the word “Finals” in it, it’s got to be because the 3 power forwards finally blossom and (almost) justify how high they were drafted (except for Smith, who was a STEAL) and the fact that they kept getting drafted, year after year after year.

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Mel,

Shaq also said something along the lines of he could have signed with ATL for more money, but he went to Boston because he wanted to be seen, and he wanted to win.

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Can we make a trade with Atlanta Dream?

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Mel

Shaq also said
this

“I could have gotten $8 million from Atlanta and Detroit, but it wasn’t about that. It was about being somewhere and being seen and winning.”

Whatever he’s been smoking lately, must be some good stuff. That’s a far cry from vet min. Unless the (penny pinching) ASG has been hoodwinking us about their level of interest in him and the dollars they were willing to pay, then he is grossly hallucinating about the Hawks pursuit of him. Maybe father-time is beginning to work on his memory since he seems to have loss count on past contracts and potential offers.

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Maybe Shaq meant he was going to be under contract with both Atlanta and Detroit at the same time to make that 8 million over 2 years. With his memory loss, that would make sense to him.

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drmaryb

I’m really just jabbing at him. He probably just misspoke after getting caught-up in the moment. Who knows with Shaq you can’t really tell.

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For the most part, I can’t wait for the season to start. There are some POSITIVE aspects of the team that I want to see take place, like seeing how:

1-much PG JTeague contributes,
2-LDrew manages the roster,
3-LDrew incorporates and gets production out of rookies Jordan Crawford and Pape Sy,
4-much impact LDrew and his OFF can have on improving MWilliams’ production,
5-much our DEF can improve overall with us having a DEF assistant coach and a different DEF approach and mindset,
6-the effect our additional depth, speed, quickness, versatility, athleticism, new OFF/DEF approach and attitude will have on the opposition,
7-much improvement, especially in our rebounding, inside scoring, perimeter and interior DEF, and ability to compete with the top tier teams, we will see,
8-much contribution we’ll get from JPowell and a revitalized JCollins,
9-the drama that now surrounds Jamal Crawford will play out, and
10-LDrew and his DEF coach can effectively structure a team DEF, and utilize the 4 headed center approach, to control strong and/or dominate inside players like DHoward, or ABogat.

With the ability of last yrs team to be successful, despite the rebellion, negative attitudes, resentment, lack of accountability, OFF/DEF structure, adjustments, changes, imagination, strategy, and effective utilization of our players, especially young players, it’s going to be extremely interesting to see how much progress we’ll see with most of those issues eliminated.

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truth, maybe ld has learned that if he doesnt get them over here early to be developed he will never see them. that seems to be the way the askg operates with some of their draft choices, make them and allow them to fester to never be heard of or developed in the us of a. how long did anderson wait his chance, how many are still over there? i am very puzzled about what to think of this one as the kid has absolutely no credentials. it makes no sense so it had better be good.

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Pape Sy might be a potential NBA player, but I don’t see him taking Marvin or Mo’s minutes. The summer league is such a small sample for what really transpires in the real league. While Sy may be high energy, it doesn’t mean it will translate into him being able to stay on the court for 10 minutes. JC2 gets his learning on the practice floor as well this year if JC1 makes it through the season.
Many questions this year. IMO, there’s not a lot that we don’t already know from the first 9-10 in this rotation.
Do we expect to see Bibby step aside in favor or Teague? I think at best Teague gets equal minutes. But the one who has a better repoire with the core will be the victor. I see Bibby as its his job to lose, and he will have to lose it before Teague gets a real shot at running things.
I also don’t expect to see minutes being given to either JC2 or Sy. With LD’s contract at 2 years, he has to win now, and he has to incorporate his changes before the weight of the schedule comes into play.
Speaking of the schedule, I see 7 games the Hawks play before getting Phoenix at home and Orlando in their new arena on the back of a back-2-back. Someone tell me what they expect to see out of that game heading into the season? Follow that with Milwaukee and Utah, both at home. After the first 11 games, the Hawks need to be at least 7-4 as these are their biggest challengers early on. We know a surprise team will come up and it could be Washington or Charlotte.

They simply have to get off to a quick start to build the confidence in the new off/def systems. No Miami or Charlotte until January either.

How long will it take to get a rotation in place? Will the bench be shortened as the season goes?
Gotta agree on this one; its time to get camp opened and get this season started. I would not expect any roster moves in the near future.

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northcyde, while it may sound great to put 3 shooters in for offensive purposes, I don’t think you are better with JC1/JC2/Joe for many minutes. I don’t see alot of defense or minutes in that scenario.

I truly don’t see Marvin or Bibby losing many minutes. The ones who might lost minutes could be Smoove and JC1. Putting Al at the 4 pushes Smoove IMO to the bench, because unless he can defend the 3, Smoove doesn’t seem to fit the 3.

To see teams like Sac or Houston come in and take advantage of our limited height might wake up the ASG and show them how much more is needed in the post. 2 teams that are probably not ready for winning a playoff series against a Western contender and they easily handle us from the inside out.

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The Truth,

He also has the potential to be a bust. The Hawks actually give him the best chance to be a good player, because all he really has to do is play better that Marvin Williams, which should not be hard for any NBA level player to do.

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Rod

Absolutely, is why I suggested it could be part of a larger strategy even involving Marvin. If he plays well could be a cheap exit strategy for Marvin.

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Pawns!

The Truth, I knew you meant pawn and not pond?

roflmao.

Great Comments today fellas! Grand-Daddy and NorthCyde set this thing off
and doc too. Yesterday!

You guys are making barbecue ot of mildew – conversationally speaking.

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The Truth,

I hope so. Maybe I would consider getting season tickets again if duck was gone.

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Dan’s Dickau

Excerpts from the Psalms:

“stop and listen”.
“Let those with eyes see and with ears hear”
“pause, and think of that”.

“Selah”

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????? @ KevinM

I never suggested playing Smoove at the 3. But with Thomas here, we may have an opportunity to give minutes to Al at the 4. Drew has already said that he wants to give Al more minutes at the 4, and that can easily be done.

PF: Smoove ( 35 ) – Horford ( 13 )
C: Horford ( 22 ) – Zaza ( 16 ) – Thomas ( 10 )

If Zaza and Etan can play 1/2 the game at center, there is a good chance of Al getting more minutes at the 4.

With all of the guards we have on the team, Marvin does need to play better though. And Bibby’s time on the court will depend on how far Teague has progressed. I agree that Bibby is the starter until Teague unseats him. But with Jamal being able to also play the 1, it’s not a given that Bibby plays more than 24 minutes a game this year.

Both guys need to play better. If other people show the ability to step up, the rotation of minutes at PG, G, and SF could look something like this:

PG: Bibby ( 20 ) – Teague ( 18 ) – Jamal ( 10 )
G: JJ ( 22 ) – Jamal ( 18 ) – Evans/Jordan ( 8 )
F: Marvin ( 26 ) – JJ ( 14 ) – Evans /Sy ( 8 )

A guy like Mo Evans could get 16 minutes in a scenario like that, or be buried on the bench, if the kids step up and can be effective in spot minutes. And that could also affect Marvin’s minutes, if he’s just going through the motions out on the court.

*******

As for a shooter lineup, don’t forget that our best lineup last year was:

* Bibby – Crawford – JJ – Smoove – Horford

But the key to that group was Bibby making shots. He was the guy getting wide open looks, because so much attention had to be paid toward JJ and Jamal. And because Woody would “hide” Bibby, that group wasn’t bad defensively either. But Bibby had to make shots, to keep the defense honest on the other end.

The major problem with our bench last year, was that on most nights, they couldn’t “hold the fort”. The starters would build a 6 point lead. The bench would come in, and 5 minutes later, we’re down 2, and Woody would have to put back in the starters. That’s why people wanted an upgrade in personnel for that bench.

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jase,

Because management likes our “core”, and no player except maybe Lebron James, per Sund, is good enough for us to break our “core” up.

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The funny thing will be that if Melo does go to Chicago, a few people on here will still spin that Chicago hasn’t improved, despite the fact that they’ll throw this lineup at us

PG – Rose
G – ???
F – Melo
PF – Boozer
C – Noah

Because I would assume that Chicago would try to find a way to get Melo without giving up Noah, but definitely give up Deng and anybody else, plus draft picks. Even if they did have to give up Noah, I think the Bulls drafted Kevin Seraphin, a young big who they can insert in the middle if necessary.

Regardless, you’d have a formidible “core” in Chicago consisting of Melo, Rose, and Boozer.

Hopefully we won’t have to deal with that scenario.

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Melo = Marvin Williams on steroids

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How about we try to jump in a 3 way with Denver and Chicago and get Noah since Denver may not want to pay his contract asking price?

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rod on marvin … He is a 3 with no handles, no offensive game, and an ok defender period.

my, i like the kinder and gentler rod. marvin has been upgraded ot ok. man rod, how hard wat that to say? heh heh

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Hold on i was just reading on ESPN Chicago that trade is probably not going to happen it looks like Paxton is not going to give up Noah so just ignore my previous post .

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doc,

Not hard to say that he is an ok defender. Some people want to compare him to guys like Tayshauan Prince, Joe Johnson, and Josh Smith defensively. He is not even in the same class. My parents did not let me bring home C’s. It was B or better. C=ok. He’s very average on the defensive side of the ball. The thing that pisses me off so much about him is that I know he does not have the tools do be dominate offensively, but he probably could become and above average defender, if he really had that killer instinct. He has the height and long arms to be very good, but his heart is still with the Wizard, and he is goofy. I don’t think that he can get over those last two.

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LOL @ Truthspitter! You made my day with ur posts over the last two pages hahaha!

If Melo gets traded, we need to try and get Billups from Denver. Prefrably for only Bibby and Mo.

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doc,

agreed

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Rod ,

If Pape Sy developed into a Pietrus type, I’d be good with that. What more could we expect out of a mid to late second round pick from another country?

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Horford for Melo!

finally an idea that makes since!

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I don’t even want to talk about Marvin. Either he becomes what Trevor Ariza was for the Lakers, or we need to find somebody who will . I’m sick of the physical potential at SF, with the “never gonna get there” factor.

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Rod from College Park

Now Rod don’t get me started.
I’ve said for nearly a year that Marv has been out of pos.
If he’s so horrible @ the [3] offensively, [your words]
then how can he be any worse @ the [4].
Honestly, you are correct when you say he does not have
a traditional skill set for a wing player.
Defensively, you say he’s weak.
However, due to his “big butt”, he has more lower body strength.
Which combined with his outsatanding ‘w-span’ would make him a
much better post defender. [able to hold position]
LD’s offense renders position #’s virtually irrelevant.

I still think Marv would/will flourish @ the high post.

I’m not lookin’ to debate.
You should hope Marv does well so that his trade value will rise.

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“If you really sit down and think about it Melo really isn’t a leader. When Coach Karl was battling his illness Melo couldn’t rally the troops and make a run in the playoffs. The guy has talent, but he is closer to a T-Mac or Iverson than a Kobe or Wade. He can lead your team in scoring, but he can’t lead your team to the title.”

This may be true, but in the absence of an actual title contending team. I’d at least like a stacked team that has enough talent to legitimately pretend to contend for a title, like the early 2000s Kings. Maybe Melo wouldn’t carry the Hawks to a title, but you can’t argue that bringing him here wouldn’t improve this team’s chances of going farther in the playoffs.

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Grandad ,

Doesn’t much matter to me if he is like Pietrus, or like Terrence Williams. Both guys can play, both have a role. That’s all I want. I think the Pietrus reference may have been more along the line of where both guys came from. Otherwise, I have no idea. Sy being a serviceable player and solid part of the rotation is enough for me. Again, he’s a late second round pick, and after thought in the NBA draft. For him to develop into that would give me more confidence in our scouting department (or at least in Larry Drew, who endorsed him big time). Something tells me if the kid hadn’t paid his own way, then impressed Drew…our scouts still wouldn’t know who he was…

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truthspitter ,

Who you spittin’ at?

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If Sy develops into a career backup who can provide a spark for 12-18 mpg, I would be thrilled with that. If he turns out to be a bust, I dont think it will be egg on LD’s face.

The guy was a late second round pick, that they took a chance on. If it doesnt work out, so be it. I’m just glad they actually brought him over.

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NORTHCYDE-I have no doubt your comment about someone still saying the Bulls wouldn’t be improved with the acquisition of CAnthony was directed at me. First, stop twisting the facts to try and make your point. I’ve never said the Bulls won’t be improved with their new acquisitions. I said they won’t be improved enough to overcome our improvement, and the 12gms they finished behind the Hawks last yr and overtake us.

Part of your Bulls Nuggets trade scenario is based on WISHFUL THINKING, and part is based on ONE DIMENSIONAL THINKING.

WISHFUL THINKING:
1-If the Nuggets do trade CAnthony, it will mean they intend to rebuild, and LDeng is a complimentary player, certainly not one a team would want to build around.
2-There’s no way Denver would trade their leading scorer, 3rd leading rebounder, the NBA’s 3rd leading scorer and perennial All Star, for LDeng and filler.
3-With a new collective bargaining agreement surely on the horizon, which will likely favor ownership, no one wants to take on LDeng’s contract at this point.
4-So to think the Nuggets would trade CAnthony without C Noah being involved is pure wishful thinking. In fact, all of the reports are saying Noah is the key to the trade, and the Bulls are seriously considering it.

ONE DIMENSIONAL THINKING:

1-Adding CBoozer, KKorver and CAnthony to their starting lineup would certainly improve their team, but only OFFENSIVELY.
2-Defensively, not one of these 3 players is considered even average, although DRose has room to improve.
3-Who would be the starting center, and shot blocking presence in the middle, KThomas? Both their perimeter and interior DEF would be a joke.
4-The Bulls have only 2 players anyone would want to build a team around, and they are C YNoah and PG DRose. Since Denver already has an All Star PG in CBillups, that leaves Noah.

So, the idea of a team improving can be a relative issue. The Hawks certainly improved in wins each of the last 6 yrs, but it didn’t mean they were able to become a better playoff team, or better compete against Cleveland or Orlando, especially during the last 2 playoffs.

If you take a ONE DIMENSIONAL approach, it’s understandable how you can mistakenly feel the Bulls will be much improved. But if you take an overall approach, and factor in what they’re losing defensively, you have to ask yourself, HOW MUCH CAN YOU SAY ANY TEAM HAS ACTUALLY IMPROVED IF IT ADDS CONSIDERABLY MORE OFF, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME IT BECOMES MUCH WEAKER IN VIRTUALLY EVERY DEFENSIVE CATEGORY?

THE HAWKS WOULD STILL BE A BETTER TEAM THAN THE BULLS, EVEN WITH THE ADDITIONS OF ALL OFF NO DEF CANTHONY, CBOOZER AND KKORVER TO THEIR STARTING LINEUP.

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All us bloggers might as well get used to the cheap route by ASG, we have 5-6 years of Iso Joe making big $$$ and no room to do nothing with current roster except sign minimum salary players to fill in the holes of Hawks roster(Etan Thomas) who isn’t nothing more than a SF and not the big Center we needed. Why do you think no other team even tendered an offer for Iso Joe? All the other teams know he quits in some of the games and when the fans voiced their displeasure in the playoffs, he rubs fans’ faces in it and then gets re-signed to the astronomical salary by ASG, what a sad JOKE! Sorry Larry Drew, you can’t and won’t succeed any better than Woody except the players will like your better personality, that won’t win games. Heck LD, you couldn’t even go and hire your own coaching staff because the ASG wouldn’t payoff the current coaches salary so you could hire and get your own staff. Best of luck LD–as i predict one and done, and the merry-go-round continues until ASG sells the team which the sooner the better.

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NES, you have a lot of common sense in your comments. Odds of what you said with LD and this team happening? 70-30 and you have aces in your hand.

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truthspitter,

LD and Sund are also on the give Marvin another chance train…

KevinM,

I would trade for Carmelo if we could. But IMO, One of the problems the Hawks have is we dont match up well trade wise with the Nuggets.

We can give them JC1, but they already have JR Smith. We can give them Josh, but they have Nene, Birdman, and Kenyon Martin (although they are dealing with injuries).

We can give them draft picks, but chances are it will be in the 20’s. We can give them Marvin, but are they really impressed with Marvin as a starting SF to replace Melo?

Although it would be ironic if Marvin ends up there and plays behind Al Harrington, because thats how his Hawk career started…

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KevinM, if you are being serious in your approval of NES’s comments, then my last post is directed to you as well.

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doc, I agree. I was also thinking just a few minutes ago how happy that I am not a Sacramento Kings fan. I think I would have given up NBA basketball altogether many years ago.

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truthspitter,

LD and Sund are also on the give Marvin another chance train…

@ Obrien: And, does that make it okay to me, no. I don’t care if every preacher in the world is going around preaching that Marvin will have a breakthrough. He is a piece of crap basketball player and you’re posts get no respect from me. Quit addressing me directly. Marvin is just like most of you people average to mediocre in life. Just happy to be here.

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@Truthspitter – “I don’t care if every preacher in the world is going around preaching ”

Should I take this personally? lol

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Seriously though, I think LD’s Motion offense wiLl rejuvinate Marvins lost agresssion by puttiong him in good spots. MARVIN IS NOT A SPOT UP SHOOTER! He is an above average athlete with a nice midrange J. Woody tried to make him something he wasn’t. If his best attribute is Drawing fouls and knocking down FT’s at or above an 80% clip THEN WHY WAS HE JUST STANDING IN THE CORNER MIKE WOODSON!

WHY WAS JOSH SMITH STANDING ON THE PEREMETER DURING THE NUMEROUS ISO-JOE SESSIONS WHILE AL WAS THE ONE TRYING TO GAIN REBOUNDING POSITION DOWN LOW MIKE WOODSON? IF AL IS THE BETTER SHOOTER THEN SMOOOVE SHULD’VE BEEN TRYING TO GAIN REBOUNDING POSITON DOWN LOW WHILE AL WAITS FOR AN ISO-JOE PASS ON THE PERIMITER.

ALL HAIL MIKE WOODSON! THE KING OF IDIOTS!

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Joe Smith is about to sign with the nets and Noah and the Bulls are working on a five year extension. So I guess that takes the Bulls out of the Carmelo chase.

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doc, “if it wern’t for bad luck we’d have no luck at all” – used to have to suffer through He-Haw with my parents when I was young.

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Rev

What was wrong with Hee-Haw?
Junior Samples was on the cutting edge of blue collar humor!

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In all seriousness: (Rev)

For ‘Big Ray’ – We agree on the Hawks *[scouting staff].
*[Pendergraph]
You are so correct;
to me it would be embarrassing – admitting, as an organization
that the kid had to pay his own way.
Had it not been for LD’s dogged persistence, we most likely
would not have even drafted the young man much less bought out
his contract to bring him over.

Rod f C.P.

Acknowledging your statement “the fact that he is clumsy” [Marv].
Seems to me like hangin’ out closer to the rim, accentuates the
positives while minimizing his clumsiness.

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Doc

To me its seems the other 11 teams gotten smarter, if the Hawks and Thunde can win 50 games while staying under the cap…Why can’t we?

The Truth is…
Those teams look foolish last year. Spending 25-40% more for the same product, is stupid.(When will Dallas? They still won’t win the title)

I believe in the “core”, we were Dominated by 1 team last year.(Magic)

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Bargain Shoppers!

doc said, “truth is, it is more the league than what the hawks have done in terms of spending. they have moved form 22nd last year to maybe ten this year without paying anything more.”

That is a very astute observation. ASKG looks pretty smart now, after all
the spending, only one team WINS. So. Beach will soon learn that you can not
buy a Championship Trophy.

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Any numbers being mentioned on that Noah extension? I had heard a week or so back, that 5 yrs $60M was offered. Is Noah worth $12M a year? Will Noah ever be more than 10 & 10 with solid defense?

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L.D.’s offense is the same offense that eddie jordan ran with the Wizards. I know that the hawks have better players than the wizards, but there really isn’t no reason to be hyped up by these changes. Iso-Joe and Iso-Jamal gave the Hawk’s one of the top offenses in the nba so don’t expect Drew to abandon it. What is now great, is the fact, that the Hawks have multiple looks that they can throw at teams. If the team continues to buy in to these changes, expect the Hawks to be a tough out in the playoffs.

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no rufus and dmb, go back and look at the salary structure for teams that win in this league, i mean WIN the trophy, not get close in one year like the thunder did last year or the hornets did recently. it is not the teams that stay under the cap. beach has done something amazing as they have held the line while having three superstars. we dont know if they win or not but are pretty darn close. incidetally there is a very short spread around us so we may be 10th but little separates us from the next six or seven is my guess.

meanwhile, look at the teams that are spending ahead of us; boston, l a and orlando (miami with shaq and wade) among others. are they stupid for wanting a championship? yes, they in a sense buy it but it is what it is. it will be interesting if the nba comes up with a hard cap rather than a soft one as it is with the “tax” after the next cba to even out the marbles so to speak. until then, you either spend to get the trophy or not. yes, you can spend foolishly as isiah did in new york but there are no teams recently that have not spent and gotten to the promised land.

rufus, we were lauded for getting there under cap. portland and the thunder have done better but did it as well because they chose more wisely than we did while trying to accomplish this without spending. again, NO ONE has ever won the championship using this model. the bulls tried it when mj left and failed miserably with the twin towers. the spurs won it in a similar way with robinson and duncan after robinson was out for a year but didnt break it all down to nothing. it got them fortuitously into the championship contender category but it was not on the cheap either as they spent over tax.

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Rondo

I posted u up twice re: buying psuiedo Championships.
But the black-hole ate my posts.

I will try later, gotta’ go pay some bills now.

-smile-

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dmb, riles thrives on it, smartly so. the guy was a thief this summer. sure did shut us down from going after any big dogs. we saw the writing on the wall.

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Let’s tell the truth! If Joe Johnson doesn’t Lead on Both ends of the floor. We (The Hawks are done)!!!!Does everyone Remember what (Charles Barkley & Hubie Brown) Said: During the Playoffs? The Hawks look like they don’t Like EACH Other! ( During Time Outs) In huddles! Why??????? WE HAVE CHEMSITY ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Period! Joe & Smooth can not Co-exisit on the same Team. They don’t like each other! We can’t BLAME Woody for that!! LD Good Luck! PS. Word on the street is: Both Bibby & Joe, Hate the Fact that JC1 had the Green light to shoot the Ball. We Need LEADERSHIP ON THE FLOOR, DURING GAMES. Not a Bunch of Rich Ass Prim-a-Donna’s in the Locker room Crying, Whinning, pointing fingers & HEARTLESS, Guttless Punks!! Give me the Dream, instead of the Chumps!!!

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BTW Ive only had 3 guys take me up on the free a s s e offer…. so in case any one else is interested

FREE BUTT

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JoJo,

I don’t think Noah is worth 5 years $60 mil, especially With a new CBA next season. The Max I would offer him is 5 years $50 mil (or maybe 4 years, $44 mil, given his injury history).

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Marvin Williams is a thief. He is also a liar so is that “Dumb Sund of a GM”. Sund claims he talked to Marvin about stepping up and taking over games before given him that new contract and look at what he did last year. Take a step back, what a coward lying thief. He should do the right thing and give the money back.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/shaun_powell/10/23/marvin.williams/index.html

Clyde: why are you worrying about Joe’s personal life. You probably can’t even buy a piece. STFU.

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No matter how much confidence I have in my projections and predictions abut LDrew, JTeague, the Hawks, and all of the other Eastern Conference teams, it’s still boils down to nothing more than speculation. Virtually all that we offer boils down to opinions and speculations, but some are certainly more informed than others.

I have a lot of faith in this yrs team, as well as HC LDrew and his staff, so I hope I’m right about everything. I strongly feel the Hawks will finish as one of the top 3 Eastern Conference teams, with a good chance of finishing #1. We certainly had enough on the court leadership and talent to have a good season last yr, despite our PG and SF issues.

I think the much improved leadership we’ll have on the bench, especially the expanded role and participation of the coaching staff, will go a long way to elevating the attitudes and commitment of the entire team.

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Why are you chumps so worried about Joe’s personal life? He does just fine on the court. If you want to worry about someone why not try to get Marvin to spend less time playing video games and watching movies, instead he should be playing basketball.

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“Drew recently told FoxSportsSouth.com “When I got the job, one of the first things that I spoke to Rick Sund about was bringing in a big guy”

OH we are supposed to get excited about acquiring a back up center to back up our backup power forward who plays center…..?

Whats wrong with this picture?

every body and his momma (including Al Horford) Has been begging Sundofab!tch to get us a starting center, a game changer so we can compete.

You clueless bloggers single out Howard as if he is the only center to control the paint against Horford. The reality is Horford did not, will not and cannot shut down any playoff caliber centers in the NBA. We will never win a championship or get in the championship round with Al and the backups.

The Hawks need a starting center not name A. Ho. and an assertive intelligent point guard. Other than that you are just pissing in the wind…..

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Ken Strickland: “I strongly feel the Hawks will finish as one of the top 3 Eastern Conference teams, with a good chance of finishing #1″.

They have a better chance of making the lottery than finishing #1 in the East. Come on Ken, I know you been in a wet dream every since we got rid of Woody but even you don’t believe that one. You can stop the “Fire Woody” campaign, he’s gone now. Give me a break.

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This article is truly depressing:

http://www.bothteamsplayedhard.net/2010/09/10/a-walk-around-the-block-jamal-crawford/

“roster still has major holes – no big man depth, a corpse starting at point guard, stuff like that”

etc. etc. smh…

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….Trade M&M

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Ken,

This is an absolutely useless argument. Like I said earlier, I know you’re still on some sort of campaign to convince people that the Hawks made a good move getting rid of Woody for LD and standing pat with our “so-called” core. You can save it for the season. All the fancy talk in the world aint gonna save us from “multiple as_ whoopins this year”. Just make sure you save some of that kool aid for the regular season.

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@Samuel – “This is an absolutely useless argument.”

Come on Samuel. Ken made several provocative points very cogently. This is why we tune in to the blog – to read & participate in the discourse. Don’t just blow off Ken’s logic. Think, respond, battle back. Otherwise Ken wins by default.

What would this blog be without Ken “bringing it” with heart? Agree or disagree, but give us reasons why.

Dismissing Ken’s arguments as “kool aid drinking” amounts to the Ad Hominem fallacy in logic. This fallacy consists in attacking one’s opponent in a personal and abusive way as a means of ignoring or discrediting his or her criticism or argument.

Do you want to be known as an Ad Hominem?

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“What center would you like the Hawks to aquire? Is it WORTH getting rid of Horford all together or just playing him at Power Foward?”

“it doesnt matter. Sund is insistent upon trying to prove that his theory which has every where hes been will work. The theory believes that you can win a title with out a center in the NBA. He believes that one day he will prove that you can with with a power forward who can average 12-14 point and 8-9rbs. Its never worked. Period but he will keep trying foolishly.

Kind of reminds me that yeah, you can drive a car with out tires but why would you want to? You can play basketball with out basketballs shoes but why would you want too? Sure you can play with out a center but why would you want to?

To address your question. There are 6-8 impact centers who can be had in the NBA. Yes, Id trade horford straight up and No, Horford is not the talent Josh is so I have no trouble trading horford…. let me add I have no trouble keeping him either. Id just use him in a different way and strengthen the team

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“Don’t just blow off Ken’s logic” LOL

Now that’s funny Logic? its called fallacy…..

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Shaq says Pistons and Hawks offered him $8 million

By Mark Miller

Shaquille O’NealShaquille O’Neal(notes) may have signed with the Boston Celtics last month for the league minimum annual salary of $1.35 million, but that’s not to say that he couldn’t have signed somewhere else for a lot more dough.

The Detroit News reports that O’Neal is saying that he was offered $8 million deals from the Detroit Pistons and Atlanta Hawks this offseason.

“I’m the luckiest guy in the world,” O’Neal told the New Orleans Times-Picayune. “I’ve had four max contracts in one lifetime. … I could have gotten $8 million from Atlanta and Detroit, but it wasn’t about that. It was about being somewhere and being seen and winning.”

One thing the 7-foot-1 O’Neal, a master self-promoter with his own reality show, doesn’t need to worry about is being seen.

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“Ken,

This is an absolutely useless argument. Like I said earlier, I know you’re still on some sort of campaign to convince people that the Hawks made a good move getting rid of Woody for LD and standing pat with our “so-called” core. You can save it for the season. All the fancy talk in the world aint gonna save us from “multiple as_ whoopins this year”. Just make sure you save some of that kool aid for the regular season.”

Damn, somebody got called out! Now thats logic.

“Woody is the best coach the hawks have had in a while certainly in the top 5 or 6 hawks coaches of all times”

I cant argue with that.

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Only someone that is part of this organization would go on and defend every move made this offseason.

It just isn’t convincing that moving Woody out fixes all problems.

How did the Hawks end up with the 3rd or 4th best offense last year? How is that possible in our iso-world?
What has changed with the defense other than LD saying, “not as much switching”…..does that mean accountability is coming? Really?

You wanna see improvements…tell Smoove to make 100 more free throws this year.
Tell Joe to go to the FT line more often and be more aggressive.
Tell Bibby and Marvin to play some much needed defense.
Tell the guys to quit complaining to the refs while the Magic is running down the other end of the court. Embarrassing. They simply quit on their home court. You don’t ask for your money back unless you totally embarrass your fan base. When Dwight says he likes the team constructed as it is, that ought to tell you something. He isn’t worried about us, and neither is the rest of the elite teams in the league.

Sund and the ASG earned their C+ this offseason.

When someone shows me facts as to where we’ve improved, then maybe the light will come on. I just don’t have a lot of excitement beaming when I hear that Thomas is gonna give Al all he can handle in practice…that Teague is gonna take Bibby’s core slot. I’ll believe it when I see it.

Give them the 4th or 5th slot heading into the playoffs and watch the light come on…..it will be a brand of basketball that no one can match up to because we have so many options with our flexible pieces.

If Boston can do it as a 4 seed, why not the core?

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@KevinM – “Only someone that is part of this organization would go on and defend every move made this offseason.”

Several possiblities why this is a fallacious statement:

Red Herring – This fallacy consists in attempting to hide the weakness of a position by drawing attention away from the real issue to a side issue.

Tu Quoque Fallacy – This fallacy consists in rejecting a criticism of one’s argument or actions by accusing one’s critic or others of thinking or acting in a similar way.

Poisoning the Well – This fallacy consists in rejecting a criticism or argument presented by another person because of that person’s special circumstances or improper motives.

But I think the correct fallacy used here is Assigning Guilt by Association – This fallacy consists in attempting to manipulate others into accepting one’s view by pointing out that the opposing view is held by those with negative esteem, instead of presenting evidence for one’s position.

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how to finish out of the play offs with out really trying ?

PG- Mo Williams/Teague
SG- Joe Johnson/J. Crawford
SF- Prince/Sye
PF- Smith/Hickson/Powell
C – Horford/ Thomas

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Appeal to ignorance when a premise state nothing has been proved one way or the other and then makes a definite assertion.

Argumentum ad populum ( appeal to the people) out of fear or negative emotions “

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hell everything is wishful thinking anyways, it’s not like Sund is going to make much of a difference.

We should have never given JJ the contract he received, I wouldn’t have paid him more then 80mil. We should have never signed Bibby to 3 years. Finally, when are we going to draft or trade for a center. There are very few left and I believe that there are still some prospects that will become good. McGhee and Hibbert are prospects. Aldridge, Lopez, and Marc Gasol are something that we should go for but would have to give up something of value. Maybe a Horford, or Smith would have to go.

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How are we aquairing “LEGIT” centers? We signed Thomas, and Powell. Come on. I would have loved for them to let JJ sign with anyone else, maybe do a sign and trade and just get Hinrich and Dang in return since Chicago just wanted to get rid of Hinrich anyways. Then we should have went after Gay.
Just a few days ago the Celtics signed West. Where were we? The kid can play two positions and is a good defender. He can actually guard some of those fast PGs that Bibby only looks after.

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“Dismissing Ken’s arguments as “kool aid drinking” amounts to the Ad Hominem fallacy in logic. This fallacy consists in attacking one’s opponent in a personal and abusive way as a means of ignoring or discrediting his or her criticism or argument.”

This is true. However…

“While most of our fans seem to have endless questions and doubts about the Hawks, why aren’t their any questions and doubts about these other teams you’re so willing to leap frog ahead of the Hawks?”

This argument, which has been repeated over and over again by Ken all summer, is (if I’m not mistaken) the logical fallacy known as a “red herring”. By continuing to point to the fact that other teams may have weaknesses that have not been discussed on this blog, Ken is distracting from the (very real and very likely) possibility that the criticism the Hawks have taken this summer is in fact valid. And going from “other teams have weaknesses too” to “other teams’ weaknesses are significant enough to where the Hawks will finish ahead of them” takes an extraordinary leap of faith that isn’t supported by facts or the history of the NBA.

I don’t like having to contradict an optimist — I’d love to pretend that the Hawks are a title contender as currently constructed — but none of the evidence supports the idea that they are if looked at logically.

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And again, this is all talk, I’m not Sund or any of the guys. We’d have to walk a mile in their shoes to see what really goes on.

All I would like from Drew is to see passion and heart in this team. ATL is in need of a good basketball team.

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MC

You gonna let this fool have his way on your blog?

Michael(free-used-butt)cunningham

Come on man you know who this fool is.

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Why

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Tired of the Troll … Is the Troll!

Just Stop It! Publix – “Where Shopping is NOT a pleasure!”

Joe’s comments were taken out of context after the Orlando Game Debacle!
Go back to the You Tube link which posted the interview:

“Joe answered a direct question, and said,
“I don’t care if the fans show up or not – we still have to go out
as a team an perform on the court.”

There is nothing to apologize for and That is TRUE!
When joe arrived and there were three fans in the stand –
Joe played as hard as he did when the stands were filled with
15 thousand fans. Their Job is to play hard, regardless of who shows up!

Reporters and Fans who twist words get what they deserve-
NO APOLOGY! GET A LIFE! And stop bytching -

JUST STOP IT!

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LeBron QUIT on his team twice!

1st – against Boston (see Delonte West)
2nd – “I am going to take my talents to So. Beach!”

While you are bashing Joe? Don’t forget to bash LeBron as well!

Only one team won the “Obrien Trophy”
Did Boston quit too?
Or, did Perkins blow out his knee on purpose?

It’s just basketball people!
For Entertainment purposes only. Calm down and enjoy yourself.

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“tired of the Troll … Is the Troll!”

The pot calling the kettle black LMAO!

“Come on man you know who this fool is.”

The legend lives. Some body open a can of hater aid.

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*tight budget

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For all of you interested in Melo:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5550421

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PS:

“Where shopping IS a pleasure”

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You are right about the Kobe thing. My appologies!

Taxes or not, JJ should not even be in the same talk as any of the mentioned three, don’t you think?

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Gasol would be a nice pick-up if we could move Horford to PF and Smoove to SF. We’d finally be big, yet young, fast and mobile. Gasol looked like a bust when Pao got traded, but I think Memphis made out just fine with that trade.

Trading Gasol will depend on Thabeet. Can he develop enough to make Gasol expendable for Memphis?

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“Can you say opinionated, or the guy has a big imagination. Just because he knows how to express himself, some what. Doesn’t mean the guy is right.”

I have never pretended like I don’t get things wrong, but in this case, you would be a lot more convincing if you could point out exactly what I am wrong about.

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It would be a dumb, check that, very dumb move to move smith to the 3.

1) he is a very good power forward ( one to the best in the nba)

2) hes considerably better than Al, (so why would you put the second best in front of the best?DUH)

3) Josh is rated the best defensive power forward in the game on any level.

4) Because of Josh’s agility and “smoove” techniques and athleticism he will always be a triple double threat and average 16-21 pts a game. Hes just that talented.

5) dont fix what aint broken. (Its Al who’s out of place not Josh. ) and you dont remedy that by putting Josh out of place

6) To the AL Horford floridian connection.. This is the Josh Smith ATL connection. This is Josh’s team…

7) If Al is all that lets trade him for Howard and make this a true ATL connection!

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Publix

September 11th, 2010
12:03 pm

Are you calling dr mary b a dude? LOL.

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Fundamentals,

Smoove does not belong at SF full time, only spot minutes.

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Idiot Watch

I guess I did call her a Dude. lol

I agree with you on Smith. I would hate to loose Horford, but in a way I would be more willing to give him up vs Smoove. And as you said, J. Smith has the potential to be phenomenal. He is very athletic and plays great D. My only concern with him is his mentality. Horford has the better attitude but not the athleticism of Smith.

So why not try to get Gasol for Bibby, Williams and first round draft pick.

Then Take Horford and Crawford and trade them for CP3 and Stojakovic.

WOW look at this:

PG- Paul/Teague
SG- Johnson/Crawford
SF- Peja/Evans
PF- Smith/Powell
C – Gasol/Zaza

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The only missing piece to that team would be someone like Stephen Jackson.

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I AM SORRY for calling you a DUDE. I didn’t pay attention to the name. I just don’t agree with you on the JJ comments. I like him as a player, but he is not my definition of a leader. He is not the Manning/Favre or Brady of football.

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Publix

Apology accepted. Neither are you – a leader that is.

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MC

….. Will soon delete the HOT GARBAGE.
Meanwhile, ignore the rubbish and keep scrollin’ – don’t feed the animals.

Yall’ know the drill … don’t feel sorry for it … It will soon die of starvation and soon find peace.

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What’s wrong with my name? lol At least it starts with a capital letter, how about your’s sasha?

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Things are pretty heated here. I agree with you Publix, JJ is way too over paid.

I don’t agree with you on arguing with the ladies. Obviously they have no clue about basketball, so just let them know what aisle the Midol is on. lol

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Talk about Bball again, the states are having it pretty easy beating Lithuania. Hope the serbs are next so we can tear them up too.

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I see Turkey making it in to the final.

Good post up there with Horford and Crawford for CP3. Don’t think that anyone thought of that. I think that the Big Easy would go for it.
It would really be a dream team, but not sure if it would work out with the payroll.

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LeBron is NOT a leader either, he is an immature follower …
But, talent-wise? I would sign him in a heartbeat.

Playing great basketball does not necessarily guarantee that you
will ever win a Championship. The HOF is filled with guys who have
never won a Title.

Josh Powell won a Ring this year and Shelden Williams almost won one too.
Does that make them leaders of a team?

It takes a team, an organization, coaches and role players, great referees and some lucky bounces of the ball to win a Championship.
Joe Johnson is not paid to be a leader, he is paid to play Basketball –
that’s all. He was paid the current market value, You are worth what you are paid!

Like it or leave it – it’s all sour grapes. If your job over paid you?
Would YOU say, “No Thank – You, I am NOT worth all that?”

Or, take you happy azz to the bank. Me, I’m going to the bank – God Speed,
before they issue a stop payment. Most on this Blog would do the same.

Unless, you are an idiot! If the ASKG were not making 10 times what
Joe was paid? They would not have paid Joe 10 times less.

Joe never said he was a leader, nor does he profess to be – those are YOUR
misguided and irrelevant opinions of him & like me, Joe could care
less about all that.

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I know he could care less about everything his fans do. After all, they just pay for his contract, you seem to forget that.

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