Atlanta Hawks: Larry Drew ditching switches
L.D. probably wouldn't consider this a 'switchable switch.'
(Checking in from a Miami holiday weekend filled with beaches, BBQ and . . . beverages)
We’ve heard about L.D.’s offensive philosophies but what about D? The short answer to what I know is the No. 1 question: Atlanta’s base defense under Drew will not feature switching on all (or most) screens.
But what he hopes to accomplish goes beyond Xs and Os and lineups. L.D. said he wants to develop a true defensive disposition for a team known more for finesse.
“Playing defense, it can be ugly sometimes,” Drew said. “Sometimes guys don’t like to do the ugly stuff, the dirty work stuff. Good defensive teams, their mindset is to go into games and outwork you. They don’t care how they do it. They do whatever it takes to shut you down. They have that aggressive mentality, where each game they go into it thinking ‘I am going lock in on my guy.’ and that works its way to the rest of the guys. You have to have that team concept and that aggressive mentality.”
A fanatical devotion to shutting down opponents is a trait of all true contenders. Atlanta’s lack of that quality has to rank at least alongside strategy and personnel as a major reason the Hawks have been a middling defensive team.
The Hawks ranked 13th in defensive efficiency last season, 11th in 2008-09 and 13th in ‘07-08. They were 24th in defensive rebounding rate in ‘09-10, 24th in ‘08-09 and 26th in ‘07-08. Atlanta’s rank in opponent true shooting percentage was 19th last season, eighth in ‘08-09 and 18th in ‘07-08. You can keep going down the list of ways to measure defensive performance and lately the Hawks rarely ranked in the top 10, never mind the top 5.
Defense is another area where L.D. is going to have to find a way to get more out of the guys he’s got. Changing their mentality is the obvious place to start. Drew has to galvanize a group that wilted so badly against the Magic. He has to help his players reach the “uncomfortable” effort levels that Al said they didn’t reach last spring.
There are familiar questions about Drew’s roster, too. It’s the same group of defenders (with an asterisk next to Jamal’s name) that couldn’t contain the perimeter. It’s still a power rotation that lacks a menacing 7-footer in the middle. It’s the same group that too often looked to Al and Smoove to go to work on the boards.
Does L.D. think he has the horses to play good, tough, straight-up D?
“I think we have the personnel to do it,” he said. “That’s why I use the term ‘accountability.’”
One way to annoy NBA players is to talk to them about defensive “stoppers.” So many times I’ve heard guys, especially guards and wings, scoff at the notion. There is no such thing, they say, because there are too many good offensive players and the hand-check rules make it nearly impossible to stop those kind of guys straight up.
Point taken, and L.D. said it’s one he recognizes. That’s why he said he there will be times when switching and other help-type schemes will be necessary.
“I think you have to make a decision on how you want to guard certain people,” he said. “Certainly game-by-game, adjustments will be made defensively. But you go into the game with the mindset of guarding your own people. I think we are deep enough we can get that kind of defense out of our guys.”
Drew said he doesn’t want that to go so far with tricking up the D that players use it as a crutch. You could see that happen with the Hawks last season. Players became so reliant on the switches that they tended to relax in anticipation of screens. Why fight through picks to stay with your man when he can be always be passed off to a teammate?
“I know exactly what you mean,” L.D. said. “You are not the first person I’ve heard say that. Different coaches have different philosophies on how they do things.”
The switching defense has its advantages. It can be effective against pick-and-rolls. It helped the Hawks cover up some of their limitations (even if it also could create other problems). But I think there is no question that using switches so liberally blunted Atlanta’s defensive aggressiveness.
Getting away from the switches is a matter of strategy for Drew, whose goal is for the Hawks to make only what he calls the “switchable switches” that don’t leave them in clearly bad matchups But ditching switches also is a matter of mindset.
“We need guys locking in and focusing on what the defense calls for,” Drew said. “We have the tools for it. We have some areas where got to get better at, but I think overall we have the tools to be a good defensive team. That is the challenge I am going to put to the guys.”
– Nothing new on the Jamal front. He still wants either a satisfactory contract extension or a trade but the Hawks still haven’t indicated if he will get either.
– French club Le Havre announced on its Web site that it has completed a buyout of Pape Sy’s contract. The Hawks haven’t received the paperwork and so don’t consider the deal to be official but they are optimistic there will be no snags.
MC
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666 comments Add your comment
KevinM
September 7th, 2010
12:17 pm
vava74-”You should look into the stats before you pass judgment: Marvin (in particular during the 08-09 season) got to the FT line at an excellent pace, in particular if we take into consideration the number of touches.”
I see the stats like everyone else here; my FT issue is with Joe and really, Smoove. Just because I mention Marvin doesn’t mean I don’t know his FT%. He hit 81%. For this team, Joe doesn’t have enough attempts because he is not as agressive as other team leaders (which is what is expected of Joe) and Smoove left a lot of points at the line. And no one on this team IMO did less than what Marvin did given the minutes he was handed.
Marvin has yet to be threatened for playing time. Wonder why that is? It simply looks bad to have the #2 pick in a draft chosen over franchise PGs to have to earn his playing time.
Give me another servicable forward and the numbers are similar: See Matt Barnes.
Marvin is average; he gives us what he gives us, 12/7? Those numbers, while not embarrassing, should be better based on the expectations levied upon him. He should be the #2 option on this team. From what I can tell, he is between the 4th and 5th option.
Will that change? Who knows, but LD has to say something to differentiate between him and Woody. And if LD is that much different, what has he been doing on the bench all these years?
You gotta wonder who was giving management the information to get Woody to his recliner? It doesn’t sound like it was the players.
And Vava, I take Granger over Marvin any day. I don’t see anyone considering Marvin for Team USA participation.
O'Brien
September 7th, 2010
12:20 pm
vava,
I wouldnt compare Marvin to Prince. Prince is on the way down, while Marvin is supposed to be on the way up. Plus Prince made multiple All NBA defense teams and has made impact plays on defense.
I am not holding my breath, but I think Marvin deserves 1 year under Drew to see who he really is. Is he the Marvin who averaged 14 and 6 the year before he got his contract, or is he the Marvin from last year who disappeared during games.
As for defense, that is one area Teague needs to really buy in. On offense, he will have his turnovers, he will miss shots, etc. But there will be no excuse for not going after it defensively.
Rod from College Park
September 7th, 2010
12:24 pm
vava74,
“The fact that he can average double figures, 5 rebounds and defend his position better than average makes him a serviceable SF. His stats are not too different from, for instance, Tayshaun’s.”
I could care less about him being seviceable. It really should not be that hard to average double figures as a pro when you are left wide open, or unguarded most of the time. There is no comparison to him with Tayshaun defensively. Tayshaun is a 2 or 3 time all second team defender in the NBA, who was asked to lock down the other teams best player at the 1,2 or 3 and did it well in playoff situations. Marvin can’t say that.
“7 million for Marvin may be overpaying him, however, it’s not by much given they way the market works.”
It is when you could have gotten another servicable player that could do as well or better than him for 5 to six million dollars less per. You could have locked up Chills for 2 to 3 mill less per year.
“Should we have waited to see if anyone made an offer leaving the market to set the bar?”
No one else made an offer, and no other team would have been dumb enough to offer that kind of money. We bid against ourselves.
“Up until now it seems that this has failed to produce a positive result on Marvin, however, I am willing to wait a year more.”
Yo can continue to wait until the cows come home. You are entitled to your opinion. I just choose to make mine based on what I see and my knowledge of the game. In my personal opinion, for the Atlanta Hawks team as constructed, Marvin is a huge bust. All of are other draft picks who are still on the team, have improved except him, and he was expected to be the best player of all of them. That’s a bust to me. Danny Granger should not even be mentioned in the same sentence basketball wise as Marvin period. No team would leave Danny Granger open like they do Marvin. Danny Granger can finish at the rim, in traffic, Marvin can’t. Danny Granger commands double teams Marvin doesn’t. Danny Granger often is asked to guard the best players on other teams defensively, Marvin can’t. Around the league Granger is considered a much better player than Marvin in almost all facets of the game.
Truthspitter
September 7th, 2010
12:24 pm
Marvin Williams is such an ugly basketball player, he looks and plays like a herpes sore that just keeps coming back. Go away you nagging disease that is Marvin Williams. I hate him as a basketball player.
P.S. I don’t hate him as a person
Rev in Tampa
September 7th, 2010
12:28 pm
Truth-Spitter, you are starting to sound like another person on this blog with the same initials. Just replace Horford’s name for Marvin.
Astro Joe
September 7th, 2010
12:33 pm
OB, the issue with Teague and defense will be his ability to play it without commiting fouls. Having him pick up 2 quick ones won’t do the team much good.
Truthspitter
September 7th, 2010
12:33 pm
I love Horford as a basketball player. What’s wrong with him. He has basically averaged a double double his whole career.
Truthspitter
September 7th, 2010
12:38 pm
He sucks that guy that is Hawks #24
He has sucked from the door
and the ways/galore, and more
He sucks like the lips of a street woman that we call a ?
He sucks
ROBERT
September 7th, 2010
12:52 pm
Enter your comments here
ROBERT
September 7th, 2010
12:55 pm
Marvin has been a bust since day one.The only way he’ll be able to help us is if he can shoot 50% from three range and will need at least 4-5 a game.
Big Ray
September 7th, 2010
1:49 pm
If you’re okay with:
1) A 6′9″ 240 pound guy who is a starter on your team.
2) 10 points and 5 rebounds a game
3) Average hustle and defense
4) For $7.5 million a year
Then….you don’t have much in the way of aspirations.
For the longest time, pundits said that the Hawks strengths lay in the length and athleticism of it’s young frontcourt. It’s true. But if one of your starting frontcourt members isn’t carrying his weight, then that length and athleticism is often wasted. Marvin need not average 20 ppg. If he became a lock-down, nasty defender who also dove for balls and tried to make plays the way Childress always did, we’d be better off already. It would even help us against bigger teams, because who has what it takes to try and track down and keep a body on three athletic 6′9″ forwards?
Why you think Josh and Al are hollering for help right now?
Astro Joe
September 7th, 2010
2:10 pm
Like most other areas of his game last year, Marvin was fair-to-middling as a rebounder. Better than some big names not as good as some small names.
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avgRebounds/position/small-forwards
KevinM
September 7th, 2010
2:11 pm
I hoped for Marvin to be our answer against LeBron in the ‘08 playoffs. After I saw him and Joe Johnson look really bad against LeBron, I quit having high hopes.
I have heard exhaustion from too many regular season minutes, no offensive scheme, every excuse in the book to protect these guys.
I am still waiting since ‘04 for the #2 pick in the draft to be a leader on this team despite us having enough forwards at the time.
Be realistic; if Marvin left today, would we really miss him? The only highlight I remember Marvin having was a game against the ‘06 Heat where he went to dunk on a drive and Shaq rejected him and the ball. Marvin ended up on his back in a hard fall, and I am not sure he has recovered from that drive to the basket yet.
Marvin
Astro Joe
September 7th, 2010
2:20 pm
KevinM, in 2009, Marvin missed most of the playoffs due to injury in 2009.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=2797&year=2009
KevinM
September 7th, 2010
2:28 pm
AstroJoe, you are so right…i must have been thinking about the regular season with Cleveland. Since he was injured and not able to be a factor in the playoffs, he gets a couple of more runs at it.
I just see him as ‘having’ to be the defensive presence for this team for them to go further.
KevinM
September 7th, 2010
2:41 pm
I went back in time to see what people were saying about Marvin when he was a RFA and we were just in front of the 09 NBA draft. Lots of good stuff there and it just shows you how far we are from knowing what is going on re: movement of players in the league.
http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2009/06/17/say-goodbye-to-marvin-williams-hello-to-caron-butler/
Some familiar bloggers there as well…..some opinions remain the same to this day as well when talking about Marvin.
The Truth
September 7th, 2010
2:54 pm
Thought for Today:
Since there are Goats on every NBA team who falls short in pursuit of the Larry O’Brien Trophy, why are the Hawks any different?
Thought for Tomorrow:
Let not your heart be troubled, if you believe in “The Truth”, then believe also that the “The Truth” will always comes to light regardless of your opinions and predictions.
Thought for Next Week:
In the seasons of a basketball player, it doesn’t matter whether he yin or yang, they are both inseparable.
Grandad
September 7th, 2010
2:54 pm
Reasonable postulate to confute northcyde:
nc my good friend – if you think diving on the floor was the singular
point of my post, then you missed my intent altogether. However your
remarks on that topic will be addressed directly.
The scope & focus of my message was what LD -must- do to ensure that
everyone buys in to his leadership [in general] specifically on defense.
1st (and I’ll repeat) Joe makes the most money, takes the most shots,
makes the all-star team yearly, and gets the most recognition.
Therefore he must be involved in the dirty work. Getting on the floor for loose balls was a mere example. But since you brought it up, I must respond.
“Diving for loose balls look great for TV, but that’s not what defense is all about.” [your statement]
That’s an assinine statement.
You’re correct in that it’s not all of what defense is about. But to trivialize it & say it looks great on TV, that’s my contention. The whole point is defense is a mind-set. Defense is not glamorous. You must roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty.
There are an average of 11 loose balls in every game. Are you saying that in a close game it’s not important to get the majority of those
eleven. [if not more]
Then you say Joe is too important & cannot risk injury. JSS stated earlier that even Bird was willing to “play to win” [my phrase].
You attempted to say Jordan & others were too important to
“risk injury”. I challenge that statement.
Then you said Marvin should be the one diving on the floor, not others.
That brings me to my next point.
You wish to set up a *caste system.
*[Woodson's way]
Certain players [Joe, Bibby] are excluded from, doing the grunt work,
yet they want to lead by crackin’ down on the working class.
So J&A rise up or maybe even Jamal or Zaza & you have anarchy.
Result = Orlando play-off disaster!
Last negative on Joe.
Joe’s soft.
I actually like Joe as a player but he will never get respect within the League unless he grows a pair & toughens up.
KevinM said it best:
“He has never put his body in harm’s way”
He does not get to the line, he’s soft, he doen’t like contact,
does not rebound enough, won’t post up smaller guards,
quits on plays, leaks out on defense.
Shall I go on. *(and still I like Joe)
There was a reason Iverson was voted toughest guy in the League.
Finally, my intent, as before.
LD -MUST- *demand then *command authority [respect] of his team.
*Demand – tell’ em how it’s gonna be. (exert his will)
*Command – earn their respect. (back it up, with no exceptions)
drmaryb (*_*)
September 7th, 2010
3:12 pm
Grandad
September 7th, 2010
2:54 pm
Enthusiastic Co-Sign!
Nuff’ Said.
just SHOOT me
September 7th, 2010
3:15 pm
SHOOT if Joe Johnson had the physical prowess of an Allen Iverson, I’d have a lot more respect for him. You’re 100% correct in he NEVER puts himself in harms way. You can’t say he shouldn’t as a lot of All-Stars do. It’s what they get paid for. I’m starting to think perhaps JJ is a homophobe.
Astro Joe
September 7th, 2010
3:17 pm
KevinM, no doubt. The only way the Hawks improve is if their Sacred Core gets better, because unlike other franchises, improving externally isn’t a viable option. So we are forced into a position where every player needs to optimize their talent. And Marvin is at (or near) the top of that list. I fully expect him to meet his contract value next season (which is different than meeting his original draft selection value).
Rod from College Park
September 7th, 2010
3:18 pm
Good post Kevin M. Which I had the time to go back and find some of those old blogs.
My post from that 2009 Blog
Rod from College Park
June 17th, 2009
3:12 pm
Mark,
You are exactly correct about your feelings for Marvin. I doubt that the Wizards would make that trade. Caron is an all-star caliber player and Marvin is nowhere close. Despite all the people who say Marvin has gotten better, his number are down from last year. Maybe there is some kind of new math, which says if your numbers are worse, you are better. I have been out of school a little while now. Now, you also have to wonder if he will always be injury prone, because he constantly falls to the ground trying to finish at the rim and play defense. A back problem does not just go away, see Tmac. If anybody actually thinks that Marvin Williams can defend Lebron James, I would really like to know what kind of drugs you take. Mark, your initial thought is correct. Out of all of our starters, Marvin is easily the most replaceable, and someone with the ability of Caron Butler would surely help us tremendously. If any of you Marvin supporters actually have any of the playoff games recorded, Cleveland actually did leave Marvin wide open, when he was on the floor, and he did not hit one jump shot. I did not see Lebron get nervous one time when Marvin was guarding him either. This thought that Marvin is a great defensive player is almost laughable. I already posted earlier in the year all the stats of all these great players he supposedly shut down this year, and the only one who was held under his season average against the Hawks was Carmelo. Granger, Durant, Wallace, Lebron, Caron, Iguodala, Pierce, Thorton…. all had higher scoring averages against us than their season averages. Stop making excuses for this guy, and base his game on what you have seen. In three years with the Hawks, Marvin has been a serviceable player and that’s it. I do not like Mike Woodson as a coach at all, but I do know that if Marvin was such a great player, a guy with his job on the line, would force the ball to him, just like he does to Josh.
Another clown’s Post from that blog who has called me a hater also:
Rufus1
June 17th, 2009
12:42 pm
Sam
I completely agree with you about Marvin..Some people have DUNK fever. Why doesn’t Marvin have just as much UPSIDE as Josh. No body would give Marvin wide open Jump shots. What about the 3 he hit against Boston. He one of the few people who can guard Lebron, Rasard, Hedu and Paul Pierce.
You don’t trade a 23 year old, 6′9, 240lb sf, who can hit the 3. His is extremly efficient and has a very good jump shot and he plays very good defense.
MARVIN WILLIAMS IS THE SAME HEIGHT AND WEIGHT, CAN SHOT AND GUARD THE 3 OR 4 POSTION….WHY WOULD YOU TRADE HIM.
PS…FIRE WOODY
If a hater is one who tells the truth, I’ll be that.
KevinM
September 7th, 2010
3:36 pm
Yeah, some thoughts over time never change….the more I read and find out about Marvin, the more I continue to hope he has a breakout year. It will take a big change of heart from this core to see a difference. They have to develop an attack personna and demand other teams’ respect.
First up, Washington. You can’t get out of the gate slow IMO. This fan base will chew up and spit out this team if they don’t show the changes that LD wants to incorporate.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 7th, 2010
3:39 pm
KevinM
Thanks for posting the “Time Machine” from Mark Bradley there:
Gee NOT much has changed wtih “Marvin’s Shame-Game”
Perhaps, being on the trading block this Summer will light a fire beneath his wings, if he is not traded first! I personally have no desire to watch him improve or not! I’m done with that project!
Rod from College Park
Rufus1
Dap01
Najeh Davenpoop
Were all posting the same comments over a year ago as they are today.
One thing is for sure you guys are consistent in your points of views!
Great Job everyone!
Rod from College Park
September 7th, 2010
3:41 pm
Hate to do this to you vava74 but these are your thoughts.
“vava74
June 18th, 2009
8:04 pm
Ariose,
Thank you for the link to Marvin’s highlight reel.
Obviously if you look only at selected footage you don’t get a clear picture BUT you can conclude by seeing this one that Marvin has the complete package, a very unique inside-outside game, since he can slash and can drain the 3, as well as play both positional defence (one on one) and poach the passing lanes.
People have to realise that Marvin should be the 2nd option in the Hawks offence and that J-Smoove should be a role player, blocking, rebounding and running the fast break to dunk which is all that is talented to do (he has developed a few moves around the basket and he should be rewarded with a few touches).
I love J-Smoove, but I can only accept him to stay if he accepts the fact that his talents are limited and mostly derived from his spectacular physical hability which should still allow him to produce 15ppg 12rbg 3bpg 3 apg.
Marvin is much more complete offensively since he can finish both strong or smooth to the rim and he can stop and pop hitting both the mid-range jumper or the 3.
He reminds me a bit of James Worthy but with legitimate 3 point range.”
Second scoring option huh. J-Smooth a role player? Ok. Marvin is a complete offensive player? You guys wonder why I attack you everytime you post such nonsense. This is why. Your post show that you have know idea how to grade players or determine ability. You simply want to post stats or shooting percentage and think that that will suffice. Hunger, desire, will and determination to be great are not reflected in stats. Marvin shows none of those qualities.
truthspitter
September 7th, 2010
3:43 pm
When Marvin is finally traded I will rejoice like never before about a basketball matter. He does not deserve to be a part of a winner. He should be sent to the D-league like Thabeet. Marvin is a cancer. I hate that he ever picked up a basketball.
JSS
September 7th, 2010
3:44 pm
@ Clyde…
Hey AJC, where in the heck is a Dream Blog? Shoot, in less than 3 years they are doing something that Hawks, Falcons, and Thrashers have only pretended to do, be clutch in the Playoffs!
Dream big ladies, Dream big!!!
truthspitter
September 7th, 2010
3:45 pm
I would rather not win a championship if Marvin is gonna be on the team. I hate his guts he has been a bust for all these years, he does not deserve to even be on the bench of a champion. I hate him as a basketball player
drmaryb (*_*)
September 7th, 2010
3:51 pm
Scrolling & Rolling!
Najeh Davenpoop said it best in the wee hours of the morning!
There is nothing else to say except:
Press Rewind & Replay the Tape.
So, I have been Scrolling & Rolling until something worth mentioning happens!
I for one am NOT – The Orator of the Obvious.
It gives me migraines.
Falcons play Pittsburgh this Sunday – Yeah!
The Atlanta Dream – Is a Dream come True! Go Dream Go!
Ben Rothlisberger 4 Game suspension has been reduced? WHY?
(aren’t 2 rape accusations worse than Pac-Man “Makin’ it Rain?”
and Lying about dog-fighting?
Go – Figure!
Najeh Davenpoop
September 7th, 2010
3:56 pm
““Damn, I am so tired of all the rehashing and speculation. I literally tried to think of something to say, but I can’t.”
- Najeh Davenpoop
Maybe just get back on Shaq’s jock, where you have been swanging for the last month?!”
I don’t think doing that would solve the problem of me being tired of rehashing and speculation.
By the way, being one of Clyde’s feminine hygiene products (apparently), do you also have an unhealthy infatuation with Sean Williams?
drmaryb (*_*)
September 7th, 2010
3:56 pm
* and Mike Vick lying about dog fighting.
KevinM
September 7th, 2010
4:02 pm
truthspitter,
We almost witnessed Shellhead getting a ring last year. You couldn’t escape the irony as he has shown less and less skill each year since leaving us. I was a big proponent of Woody giving him more minutes because I thought we had something there that wasn’t being shown.
I will keep my day job after that evaluation, but boy, Shellhead getting a ring would have been tough to watch on ESPN this upcoming season. That would have been tougher than watching the basketball expert we used to employ making another team a championship contender.
ryan
September 7th, 2010
4:28 pm
Atlanta Hawks are boring Ha HA the Dream may make it to to the finals quicker they have only been in existence for 3 years just pathetic by the Hawks.
jason
September 7th, 2010
4:52 pm
no more mis matches. Dont understand how that helps with defense
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
6:04 pm
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
4:14 pm
“Horford and Hawks hoping they have enough guys who can do this…” – get dominated by Howard? Go a whole year with out shutting down an opposing center? Have a career 12pt average? Finish 25th among centers for block shots?
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
4:18 pm
Yeah management is stupid and thats why the hawks cant be champions. The offense was on par with the lakers while the defense was… well you never going to win a championship with your center rated as # 25 among centers for shot block and 60% of the people who attempted shots over horford in the low post scored… those who did not often got to the free throw stripe seeing he commits 3 fouls for every 1 block shot. Defensively he reminds me of a live fish on the beach just flopping around….
JerryWest
September 7th, 2010
6:05 pm
Some people are turning this blog into a sewer. Most blogs have safeguards against people like that.
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
6:08 pm
“if you’re okay with:
1) A 6′9″ 240 pound guy who is a starter on your team.
2) 10 points and 5 rebounds a game
3) Average hustle and defense”
WHERE AS A. HO. MAY BE AVERAGE HE IS AT 12 PTS CAREER AND 8.7 RBS. YET FREE BOOTY CON & HAM POSTS A PICTURE OF HIM DAILY!
4) For $7.5 million a year
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
6:12 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y_Ps6dSWnM
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
6:14 pm
If you cant stop it then STFU!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocaatPvI90k
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
6:17 pm
This is for you A, Ho !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE_nrx-9iUY&feature=related
Michael (free booty) con & H a m
September 7th, 2010
6:22 pm
This is for all the josh haters like Mike free booty Cunningham
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wkn01olV9I&feature=fvst
vava74
September 7th, 2010
6:51 pm
Rod,
I concede that you are relentless, however, you will not see me completely retract from what i wrote.
Marvin – even stumbling – has much better touch than Josh and had the potential/tools to be a second option on offense.
Josh WILL NEVER have that potential and should concentrate in doing a nightly Rodman impersonation since it is that he is equip for (with better but mediocre back to the basket moves).
Infortunately Marvin failed to show up and disapointed and it is true, he does seem to lack drive and if he still doesn’t show up this year, then we will know that he will not be more than z serviceable player.
As for the Hawks missing on signing Childress for 2 or 3 million less than Marvin last year, you know that it isn’t true.
I like Childress and inamorata sorry that we lost him but there is no point in looking back and complaining every single day about Marvin.
Like I said, he is a balanced player and a serviceable SF. unworthy of the #2 spot? Unless he turns is career upside down, yes, but to say that he can’t contribute? I don’t agree.
Finally, Granger playing D? Defending the opponents’ best wing players?
Come on! Don’t lose focus on your strong points with that nonsense. Granger is reported by everyone as being unable AND unwilling to guard his own shadow.
jason
September 7th, 2010
6:53 pm
Like those mixes of j smoove mike
vava74
September 7th, 2010
6:54 pm
KevinM,
You were specifically saying that Marvin was soft and didn’t get to the line.
You were wrong on that one. For the number of touches he gets his FTA is pretty high.
I would concede that he should be getting more FG+1 if he finished with more energy, but to say that he does not draw foils, you are wrong.
jason
September 7th, 2010
6:55 pm
Vava u need to shut up. First off who was doin alll our defense last year. Who was the only guy with 2 bpg and 1 spg? J smooove!!!!!!!!!!!
vava74
September 7th, 2010
6:57 pm
Sorry for the typos and bizarre words. Posting on iPhone with multiple dictionaries.
jason
September 7th, 2010
6:58 pm
and vava j smoooove!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! averaged more points than marvin the “dead weight” williams by about 5 points. He sellls more tickets. and i think sorry know that he is our dominique wilkins
vava74
September 7th, 2010
7:01 pm
Jason, help defense and poaching the passing lanes is just one fraction of defense.
Bowen, Battier and many other good positional defenders had/have low averages in blocks and steals.
If you don’t realise that, you know very little about bball.
I love Josh and he is a game changer with his help defense but his man to man D, his boxing out and his closing out on shooters are still below par.
drmaryb (*_*)
September 7th, 2010
7:14 pm
vava74
Are you saying Granger couldn’t guard a locked door?
roflmao
vava74
September 7th, 2010
7:19 pm
Rod,
You said this in 2009 during the off season, in the post you have just re-posted above:
“…If any of you Marvin supporters actually have any of the playoff games recorded, Cleveland actually did leave Marvin wide open, when he was on the floor, and he did not hit one jump shot…”
Marvin was severely injured during the 2008-09 playoffs. SEVERELY INJURED IN ONE OF HIS HANDS (wrist)
I know that you have good reasons to criticize his sub-par production, but look how viciously you attacked him after a playoffs in which he clearly incapacitated to play…
That is precisely why some people call you a “hater”.