Atlanta Hawks: Al Horford: ‘I am going to war with who I’ve got’ (Update: Hawks sign Etan Thomas)
Horford and Hawks hoping they have enough guys who can do this. (AP Photo)
When Al Horford said earlier this summer that the Hawks needed to add an “impact center” to be a serious contender in the Eastern Conference, I’m going to guess he wasn’t talking about Jason Collins (who had no impact for the Hawks last season) or Etan Thomas (whose impact lately has been blunted by injuries).
Yet as training camp approaches that’s what the Hawks have behind Horford and Zaza. They re-signed Collins early, struck out with Shaq (who had endorsements from both Al and Smoove) and Brad Miller and today added Thomas.
I bumped into Al at Philips today and asked him if that’s going to be enough to help the Hawks break through the ceiling that for this franchise has been short of the East finals for so long.
“I am going to war with who I’ve got,” Al said
What he’s got at center is Zaza, who came on at the end of last season and stacks up favorably against other NBA backups though he isn’t a stout deterrent at the rim; a leaner and apparently more-motivated version of Collins; and Thomas, a tough banger in the post who will try and show that injuries have not robbed him of his rebounding and shot-blocking ability.
Those three players plus Al, Smoove and Josh Powell will make up Atlanta’s frontcourt. That rotation, with L.D.’s plan to play Al at power forward and Smoove at small forward at times, is going to have to be enough.
Horford had hoped Atlanta would add an impact center who could split minutes with him at center and shore up the interior D against the likes of Dwight Howard and Boston’s frontcourt (and that was before the C’s added Jermaine O’Neal and Shaq). Now he will roll with Zaza, Twin and Thomas.
“I haven’t seen him, but I know that Jason Collins is coming in in great shape and has really worked,” Horford said. “He is a guy who could have been utilized a little more last year. And we’ve got Etan Thomas who will be here soon and he will be a great help, as well.”
After a long day of physicals with Atlanta’s medical people, Thomas had to smile when I asked him about his health. If he came through all the poking and prodding with passing grades, he must be good to go. “Everything is fine,” he said.
Why did he choose to sign with the Hawks?
“This is a great situation,” he said. “I was with Larry Drew in D.C. and I have a lot of respect for him. I like what he is doing here.”
Thomas said Drew made “no promises” about his role and just told him to be ready. Does Thomas think he still can provide the physical presence the Hawks are looking for?
“That’s what they brought me here for,” he said. “I’m going to put in a lot of hard work.”
Thomas, who will wear No. 36 for the Hawks, has earned a rep for physical, high-energy play around the basket.
“We need that inside toughness in here,” Al said. “The more that we have, the better.”
Jamal Crawford’s pending pay-me-or-trade-me request notwithstanding, it looks like Atlanta will send out the same top nine for 2010-11 as they did for 2009-10.
So how can the Hawks improve on No. 3 in the East and the second round of the playoffs, particularly with Boston still Boston, Miami shooting past them on paper, Orlando’s so-far unconquerable core still intact, and Chicago and Milwaukee creeping up from behind?
“I know that I’m excited personally with what Coach Drew has been talking about,” Horford said. “He wants to change the offense a little bit and do things a little differently. Having said that, it all depends on the kind of level that our key guys like Joe Johnson and Josh Smith [reach] coming in. Mentally, I think that’s going to be a part of how good we are as a team.
“I think there is room for growth. There definitely is. We have to work harder if we want to be any better because, man, the East. Milwaukee is better. Chicago is better. Miami is better, it goes without saying. It’s going to be an interesting year for us.”
The same can be said for Al, who is heading into the final year of his rookie-scale contract fresh off his first selection to the All-Star game. The Hawks can extend him for up to five years and $82 million by Oct. 31 or tender him to make him a restricted free agent next summer.
Indications are that the Hawks plan to make an aggressive push to sign Al to an extension but that process hasn’t started.
“I haven’t heard anything yet,” Horford said. “I think anything will start coming once training camp gets going. I am just kind of leaving to that to the owners and my representation and just seeing what happens. I am going to keep working hard and keep doing what I’ve been doing.”
MC
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382 comments Add your comment
jason
September 2nd, 2010
6:22 pm
MC im hearing that we agreed to a buyout with Le Harve so whats the truth? did we or didnt we sign him?
Grandad
September 2nd, 2010
6:26 pm
Ken S
“Bibby’s contract will be expiring after this season.”
Just to clarify, you mean, becomes an exp. after this season.
He actually has 2 yrs left, counting this season.
Plus, we would have to take back a bit more than a small fraction.
Would we not?
Understand that when you get into the CBA I’m over my head.
*I personally would not want to rid ourselves of Jamal
just for the purpose of shedding his contract. [salary relief]
The Truth
September 2nd, 2010
6:29 pm
MC: Is that it as far as the Hawks acquiring more players? I mean Pape Sy signing doesn’t sound that critical since he was likely headed to the D-league anyway perhaps explaining the slow pace in acquiring him. It would seem that the biggest gorilla in the room now is Jamal Crawford. His move came from left-field and I’m sure unexpected by Sund. I mean the idea that Jamal disrupted his vacation no doubt rocked his world
Grandad
September 2nd, 2010
6:34 pm
Thanks Michael!
Fresh
September 2nd, 2010
6:42 pm
LOL. Somebody on this blog got real issues man.
jason
September 2nd, 2010
6:44 pm
MC anyday know why am i heraring that we signed pape sy and i am hearing from your mouth that we didnt?
cp
September 2nd, 2010
7:36 pm
When I think of impact players, guys such as Jason Collins, Etan Thomas, and Josh Powell don’t come to mind. It is what it is.
James
September 2nd, 2010
7:37 pm
Hawks need to trade Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith to Denver for Carmelo Anthony & NeNe.
dstdeelite
September 2nd, 2010
8:11 pm
It’s really sad that the highest paid guy on the roster does not equate to the team captain/leader.
Michael Cunningham
September 2nd, 2010
8:13 pm
@ jason: “MC im hearing that we agreed to a buyout with Le Harve so whats the truth? did we or didnt we sign him?”
see my post at 6:11
shaqtus thorns
September 2nd, 2010
8:15 pm
WOW, that guy is a jackazz.
Michael Cunningham
September 2nd, 2010
8:17 pm
@jason: “MC anyday know why am i heraring that we signed pape sy and i am hearing from your mouth that we didnt?”
dude, this was already answered.
Michael Cunningham
September 2nd, 2010
8:19 pm
@ The Truth: “MC: Is that it as far as the Hawks acquiring more players? I mean Pape Sy signing doesn’t sound that critical since he was likely headed to the D-league anyway perhaps explaining the slow pace in acquiring him. It would seem that the biggest gorilla in the room now is Jamal Crawford. His move came from left-field and I’m sure unexpected by Sund. I mean the idea that Jamal disrupted his vacation no doubt rocked his world”
ha . . . that’s it as far as vet free agents. one could come via trade with Jamal. the slow pace with Pape seems to be due more to Le Havre than the Hawks.
O'Brien
September 2nd, 2010
8:45 pm
“I am just kind of leaving to that to the owners and my representation” Al .
I’m glad he realizes that it is not just up to Rick Sund. Rick needs owners approval, and given our 11 man ownership team, you just never know what to expect, and when to expect it.
Najeh Davenpoop
September 2nd, 2010
9:03 pm
“And having seen all of the aforementioned players play,I can say without hesitation ,that Al is not in their class. And further, from what I have seen-and I attended several of the big games like the Cavs and Lakers games as well as game 7 of the Bucks series- if he plays the 4 as he has “requested”, his ceiling there is at best Buck Williams,an offensively challenged but relentless rebounder.”
This is true now. Most of the projection of Al as an elite front court player is dependent on him developing one go-to post move, which would put him in that category. The reason for the amount of optimism about him stems from the fact that he is good at every other aspect of the game — rebounding, ball-handling, passing, defense, and as a team leader. I only saw Buck Williams towards the tail end of his career, so I can’t really say with certainty how good he was, but to imply that Al Horford’s ceiling as an offensive player is pretty much to rely on dunks and putbacks for most of his efficient offensive scoring is, I think, a mistake.
Jae Evolution
September 2nd, 2010
9:12 pm
I just read this article on A.I., and I know some of you see red flags with this guy, but this article made very solid points on why he would work here. Anyways heres the article for you guys: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/447466-allen-iverson-could-replace-jamal-crawford-in-atlanta
JerryWest
September 2nd, 2010
9:18 pm
Post from a good blogger at realgm:
“Etan’s always got something wrong. He’s also had rib injuries. But the biggest problem he has are his hands. He’s got good low post moves, but when you can’t hold onto the ball, there’s a problem. His ball skills are awful, and he’s a black hole – will not and maybe cannot pass. Also, for a strong physical player, he’s surprisingly clueless on setting picks – displaying a low BBIQ. He has good shot-blocking instincts, but he’s got below average height and length for a C. A better poet than NBA player.”
Najeh Davenpoop
September 2nd, 2010
9:29 pm
If Iverson has anything left in the tank and if he is willing to take a bench role (which may not even be as expansive as Jamal’s, considering that the Hawks have a lot of depth at the SG position) he would be a good fit as a 2nd unit scorer. Those are two big “if”s though.
Dub C
September 2nd, 2010
9:32 pm
Jae,
I just read the same article and I can see some validity in it. However, it just seems like Iverson brings drama everywhere he goes. He said he’d take whatever role he can get, but didn’t he say that when he went to Memphis?
Regarding signing Etan Thomas, I’m up in the air with that. I just don’t know what kind of impact he will have. But he can’t be any worse than Collins.
KevinM
September 2nd, 2010
9:37 pm
JC1 – very useful in his current role
JC2 – will have to learn a lot in a hurry to be any factor…he gets minutes if JC1 is gone. He’s here because the ASG had zero clue what E#2 was going to do….
JC3- he has to earn our respect……time to finally show something
E#2 – questionable in my eyes as a leader…….all I have is the past to go off of.
LD – all eyes are on his moves
The same roster through the first 9; a bad taste left over from last season and it will be hard for any other players to get any minutes. The minutes will be inconsistent and you can bet LD will have some guys in his doghouse as well.
History shows Sund doesn’t make in-season moves…..be prepared to see this roster for the bulk of the season.
Ken Strickland
September 2nd, 2010
9:53 pm
EThomas is now a Hawk, so the time for complaining about his hands, size, injuries etc, is long past. We now have 13 players under contract, JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Teague, Horford, Zaza, JaCrawford, JoCrawford, MEvans, JPowell, JCollins, EThomas and Bibby. So, if we sign Pape Sy and bring him over, it’s a very good sign that JaCrawford will be traded before the season is over.
There’s no way the Hawks are going to buy out Pape Sy contract just to dump him in the D-League, or let him waste away on the bench in street cloths.
GRANDAD-Miami managed clear significant cap space, to sign Bosh, by trading MBeasley for draft picks. We could certainly do the same with JaCrawford, plus we have the $3.3M trade exemption. The money we’d save from trading JaCrawford, and the $2.5M from MEvans’ expiring contract, would get us close to what we need to resign Horford.
Bibby just completed the 1st yr of his 3yr contract. After this season, he will have completed the 2nd yr of that contract, so his contract will be in the final yr of his contract after this season. That would make it a very tradable expiring contract after the upcoming season.
All of you delusional fantasy league fans need to get a grip on reality and realize the Hawks aren’t going to trade JJ, Smoove, Horford, or any combination of their core players, and take on CAnthony’s contract, just to appease your fantasies.
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
9:54 pm
KevinM – Sund did get Bibby in an in -season move.
And about Etan – we need to remember it was just 4 years ago I think that this guy beat out Brendan Haywood for a starting job in Washington. All I’m hoping for is two good 5 minute spurts in some games we need him. I think he can provide that. Guy plays with energy, passion, and emotion. He is what he is – a hard nosed bench player. I think he can fill a role.
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
9:56 pm
And again, unless Jason Collins has vastly improved (he might have), Etan is his better in almost every way. And I like Jason – not a bad 4th string Center.
Dub C
September 2nd, 2010
10:02 pm
SteveW, – I agree totally. I can’t wait to see if all these rumors about Collins being in much better shape is true.
Grandad
September 2nd, 2010
10:03 pm
Najeh
In addition to your 9:29 pm;
a John Shuerholz quote about the Braves
with regard to Manny Ramirez:
“We don’t do ifs”.
Grandad
September 2nd, 2010
10:06 pm
Sorry, I should have qualified my last post.
Talkin about Iverson:
“Those are two big “if”s though.”
Fundamentals
September 2nd, 2010
10:16 pm
We’ve gotta make something good out of the Crawford situation. Either sign him and trade Bibby & Mo or use him for what we need – rebounding SF who can shoot the 3 and a C who can allow Horford to play PF for stints. Just please no Iverson! We need hungry, young talent, not washed up has beens with no desire.
Fundamentals
September 2nd, 2010
10:18 pm
“use” meant trade for.
Jae Evolution
September 2nd, 2010
10:40 pm
Fundamentals the guy is only 34-35 years old, I’m all for keeping Crawford he is an important part of our offense, but IF we lose him why not pick up someone who can instantly fill his shoes, A.I. has always been known as a scorer if he can accept the sixth man role and contribute he is the perfect pick up
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
10:50 pm
We shall see about Sy and D-League. I think if Jamal and Mo’ are with us at the beginning of the season, Sy is in D League. I think the plan all along has been:
‘011-’012 – Jordan Crawford takes Jamal’s place
- Sy takes Mo Evans place.
We use part of the 11m+ savings to give Al Horford a big contract. And we have 2 young 23 year olds to develop to energize the fan base. Teague will also be 23 in ‘011-’012 also.
Difference between Teague and Rondo:
Rondo has better leadership skills; is more assertive on and off the court. Great defense.
Teague has better basketball skills offensively, but is less assertive. Very passive. Yet to see how his defense goes.
Teague has better natural offensive skills than Rondo – look at Teague’s college stats and his limited time here. But Rondo is a high type A personality, who is aggressive on the defensive end, and is a very good floor general, with assists as well.
Somebody said the most they ever see Teague contributing is 15ppg, 7 apg. That’s probably true. And that’s ATL’s best PG since at least Mookie Blaylock, maybe even Doc and Spud. He may be the best since Eddie Johnson with those numbers (and yes I know Eddie played mostly SG, but he was really a hybrid). Am I missing somebody?
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
10:54 pm
I see Teague developing into a 9 ppg and 4 ast. per game type player this year, and with his quickness, learning defense very well.
Maybe 11 and 5 next year.
And 14 and 6 his 4th year. I still go back to Steve Lavin on Espn before the Hawks drafted Teague. He said in 5 years, Teague might be the best PG in the ‘09 class – which was an awesome class for PG’s. He has talent oozing out of him. Just give him time…
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
10:57 pm
And Hollinger (I believe) on ESPN said statistically that Teague would be a Rondo – had intangibles that didn’t show up on draft boards. And like Rondo, would be a work in progress. Northcyde or somebody had a great post on Rondo’s progression a couple of weeks ago.
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
10:59 pm
KenS – I certainly agree. I would hope the Hawks would not trade Al or Smoove for Carmelo. Jamal and Marvin on the other hand, I would do, esp. if Jamal doesn’t want to be here.
Grandad
September 2nd, 2010
11:05 pm
ILL-Logical
With all due respect;
I must disagree on a couple of points as they pertain to Al.
1st, I don’t think he’s an undersized center.
As for Bill Russell (I saw him play also), Ben Wallace & Zo,
Al is none of those. As a matter of fact, he’s not a center.
He does not have the requisite skill set to be #6, Ben or Zo.
He has done a magnificent job holding down the fort.
But he will never be a defensive stopper @ the rim.
My point:
He’s much better than Buck Williams. [reasons forthcoming]
But he’s a natural [4].
Secondly, Al is much better offensively than everyone
seems to think. He has been restricted by the star system.
Al shot 55% from the field. He has developed a dead-on
mid-range jumper. With a real offensive system he has a
chance to score 16 -18 every night, easily growing into
a 20-10 guy. Maybe not HOF, but certainly a perennial
all-star.
G-dad editorial note:
Al will become the face of the franchise.
*(if not already)
-Not Joe-
northcyde
September 2nd, 2010
11:17 pm
It wasn’t me SteveW . . . because I don’t think there is any way that Teague can become Rajon Rondo. Rondo was a defense first player, whose offensive game benefitted greatly from playing with 3 Hall of Famers. Rondo is a pure PG. Teague isn’t. So Teague is going to have to find his niche as a Earl Boykins type scorer.
We’ll see if he can run an NBA team come the preseason ( if he beats out Bibby as the starter ).
doc
September 2nd, 2010
11:30 pm
steve w … KevinM – Sund did get Bibby in an in -season move.
sorry it wasnt my boy rick that got us bibby but one gm billy knight, much maligned but the creator of the CORE.
ILL-Logical
September 2nd, 2010
11:36 pm
dad editorial note:
Al will become the face of the franchise.
*(if not already)
-Not Joe-
And that is precisely the point of my screed:why is he being touted as the face of the franchise when:
a) he is not the best player on the team and that may not change even if there are major trades;
b) he is not the leading box office draw on the team-when was the last time you heard someone say Man I got to go and see Al play tonight?; and
c) dude has not shown the ability to match up *outside* the paint with the KGs,Dirks and CB4s of the world on defense or having the ability to take them off of the dribble.
;
He is a good player with -potentially-a very good upside. Face of the franchise: hmmmmm. But with an organization that wants tunas with good taste rather than tunas that taste good …..IMJS .
doc
September 2nd, 2010
11:40 pm
yes ill, i hope his star is still rising.
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
11:41 pm
Northcyde – Co-sign, made the same points on other posts. Not trying to say Teague will become Rondo – 2 different skill sets. But Teague may be very good.
Doc – thanks for the correction – as I was writing the post, trying to remember….
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
11:47 pm
Man, been studying the Heat’s roster. They may have the worst 4-15 spots in the history of the NBA – terrible. After the big 3, your best players are:
House – Gone
4) Udonis Haslem – nice player, wish he was backing up Smoove
5) Mike Miller – washed up, distracted basically – good outside shot, and good passer
6) Juwan Howard – 37 – decent back up big
7) “Z” – 35 – Gone
9) Magliore – I actually like what he brings – wish he was in Jason Collins spot
Your starting PG’s – Chalmers/Arroyo – baaaad. I almost think those rumors of moving DWade to PG might be true.
C- Joel Anthony – terrible – would be competing with Etan for our 3rd C spot on the Hawks.
The Heat better hope the big 3 stay healthy…..
SteveW
September 2nd, 2010
11:49 pm
Chalmers, House and Arroyo are so bad at PG for the Heat, I actually think Teague and Bibby may eat them up when we play.
Publix
September 2nd, 2010
11:55 pm
Ok, so now we have a “birdman” in ET. He is equal to what Denver has in Andersson. Now if Crawford wants to leave, please trade him and get another pure scorer who can play some D.
It would be great if we could send Marvin and JC to the 76ers for Igoudala and nex year’s second round draft pick. Then all we’d need is to sign another free agent, maybe Stackhouse.
PG- JT; Bibby
SG- Johnson; Stackhouse; JC2
SF- Igoudala; Evans
PF- Smith; Powell; Thomas
C – Horford; Zaza; Collins
Very athletic lineup. Lots of points and we’d have to see what the D would look like. So what do you guys think???
Dan's Dickau
September 2nd, 2010
11:56 pm
Ok, so either
a. that’s the only photo of Etan Thomas in existence,
b. the ajc somehow doesn’t have access to other photos of Etan Thomas,
c. the ajc is actually too lazy, and decided to re-use the Etan Thomas photo they’ve already had up for a week.
I really feel like you all could do better.
SteveW
September 3rd, 2010
12:25 am
I would guess it would take Jamal, Marvin, and a 1st pick at least to get Iggy. And that would put us way into luxury tax after this year – probably worse with the new CBA.
I proposed the same trade earlier today basically….
SteveW
September 3rd, 2010
12:28 am
I wouldn’t mind getting Lou Williams from the Sixers if there were a way however…
Grandad
September 3rd, 2010
12:38 am
Igoudala is untouchable just as Al is for us.
Publix
September 3rd, 2010
12:44 am
I don’t think that they would go for Williams because he is more of a PG, and we have two of them.
If we can’t get Iggy, how about Marvin, Crawford, and next year’s draft pick for Prince and Gordon.
Joshua
September 3rd, 2010
12:44 am
Pape Sy reached his buy out the 6-7 forward should now sign with Atlanta, Heard’s Boris Diaw with sick hops bet he doesnt play much this year.
The Truth
September 3rd, 2010
12:50 am
Below is the latest report (A French Translation) that covered the Pape Sy situation. Though it is dated Aug 6 2010, it does provide insight into the issues that relates to acquiring him. From this report it apparent that the goal for Le Havre would be to acquire an American Player to replace Pape Sy. Clearly the Hawks does not want to pay the quoted $500,000 buyout since it is based on the player’s performance output. The Hawks seem only interested in paying his replacement cost as they transition to another player. Could this be the bone of contention?
Update on the possible departure of Pape Sy to Atlanta, his agent Pascal Levy
On August 6, 2010 at 17:01 by Julien Dalcanale
While Atlanta has officially declared his intention to sign Pape Sy (drafted in the 53rd position) this summer, we wanted to know more and have to be met Pascal Levy’s agent. Exclusive interview.
Hello Pascal Levy. Jean Manuel Sousa, the coach of Le Havre has confirmed a few days ago that Pape Sy evolve Havre next year, what is it really, when the leaders of Atlanta has finally announce that they Pope had come to this summer?
In fact the situation right now and that Atlanta has expressed a desire to engage Pope next season. They changed their minds, because at the end of the summer league they were 95% on the idea to let him do his year at Le Havre and recover after one year, after a big season. But now, after internal discussions it seems that they decided it was more interesting for them to bring this year, they felt it was more useful for them to have it in their roster this year and already started to format it from their game against the NBA. Today they have expressed a firm desire to make them sign it is in talks with Le Havre for a few days
And what about the release clause ($ 500,000) and the deadline, which obviously is exceeded?
From a legal standpoint, a release clause is an element that clearly indicate the potential output of the player. In fact the date has passed, we had sent to Atlanta dates, terms, conditions, etc. so they knew everything. But beyond this outside of any clause, are of course opportunities for negotiation and termination.
To be clear, Le Havre has no contractual obligation to release Pape from his contract, it is true, it is out clauses. We should really find a financial agreement, Atlanta is not at all committed to paying $ 500,000, a sum that is not appropriate for a second round pick So Atlanta said they want him to come, but they do not want any more than it costs them $ 500,000, reflecting budget reductions put in a lot of franchises. Today the entire NBA is against the costs, staff costs, costs of scouting, etc. and therefore policy today in the NBA is trying not to spend too much money. They want to bring the Pape to give him a chance, because it is a chance for him to pay a fair price, so here it is at this stage for discussion. Anyway I hope I have is quite normal that Le Havre defend its interests and their finances because they need money, but it will at some point they will understand that it is better have a good transfer
Especially as the club will not affect any Normand dollars in June …
Yes yes absolutely, Le Havre will not touch anything in June 2011 when Pape was a year older. Anyway now the goal for Le Havre was able to fetch a player who can replace the Pape leads, and therefore a priority an American because I do not see French people today who can do that in these rates there, and then be able to recruit an extra player with the remaining money transfer. Le Havre was in any way a group at 7 under a pro, so there it would allow them to take a more pro, with the amount of transfer that may remain after deduction of payroll taxes, plus of course the envelope provided the basis for Pope. Anyway me what I said at Havre is in any way for the player it would be totally counter-productive as they prevent them from joining the NBA, they are in a position where they try to obtain as possible, and this is normal, but beyond that they must accept that with this operation they are able to enhance their team improve their finances and maintains a hook can be more easily and allow Pape to live his dream and his career. So we are in that discussion that is calm, sedate, productive. I think it will succeed anyway.
How Atlanta would be willing to pay as you sign for Pope this year?
I know how Atlanta is ready to, but because it is in talks I did not want to get into a bidding interposed by journalists, so I prefer not to talk too much about numbers, but what is on is that the $ 500,000 it is not possible at all. Atlanta has made an offer that was far enough. What is certain is that Atlanta wants, negotiations are under way, I’m also protect the interests of the club Le Havre anyway, so they are not damaging.
Interviewed exclusively by Julian Dalcanale
Hawks fans: Welcome Etan, wonder about Al | Atlanta Hawks: Fan Nest
September 3rd, 2010
1:08 am
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