Atlanta Hawks: Summer reading: Al, Jamal, Etan and Pape
It's still looking like No. 15 comes before No. 11.
It still doesn’t look like the Hawks are going to offer Jamal Crawford the kind of long-term contract extension he’s looking for, and it still looks like an extension for Al Horford will be GM Rick Sund’s priority when he returns from vacation.
The Hawks can offer Horford an extension that starts in 2011-12 and is worth up to $82 million over five years. The deadline for a deal is Oct. 31.
The incentive for the Hawks to offer Horford the extension is to prevent him from becoming a restricted free agent next summer and signing an offer sheet they’d have to match to keep him. Signing Horford to an extension now would provide cost certainty. It also would provide security for Al, who would get a big-money deal without doing the RFA song-and-dance.
But the uncertainty cuts both ways for the Hawks. The next CBA could be more favorable to owners, and the maximum offer sheet available to Al next summer could be significantly less than $82 million. The same could be true were Al to become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2012.
The potential risk for the Hawks in skipping the extension and letting the market dictate Al’s worth is he might become disgruntled. But I doubt that would happen, as Al seemed to understand it’s just business when I talked to him last: “I really can’t get too caught up in that. I really just have to go out and play. If something happens and I get an extension, great. If it doesn’t, I just have to keep playing and keep getting better.”
The money train just keeps on rolling for the Hawks, with each expenditure maintaining their proverbial “core” but squeezing their resources and roster flexibility. They paid Bibby and Marvin last summer. They paid J.J. this summer. They may have to pay Al now or next summer.
The AJC’s Mark Bradley calls it the increasing price of NBA success. Or, as one NBA exec joked, nothing ever stays the same for a good team because everyone wants to be paid or and nothing ever stays the same for a bad team because everyone is subject to being fired or traded.
Sund’s philosophy plays into this, too. For the most part he lets his employees finish out their contracts before offering new deals (or not). When Sund was Seattle’s GM, Ray Allen had to hit the open market before securing a deal he liked from the Sonics. Rashard Lewis become an unrestricted free agent and ended up in Orlando.
The most recent exception to Sund’s reluctance to extend vets is, of course, the maximum extension offer for J.J. last summer. But J.J. seems to be an exception to Sund’s general rule. Sund has been consistent in his belief that J.J. is a franchise cornerstone whom the Hawks couldn’t allow to walk if they hoped to maintain their momentum. ASG was on board with that sentiment and J.J. got his max deal this summer.
Sund is a Crawford fan, too, and why shouldn’t he be? Jamal made him look smart for swinging that trade, and while it’s not like the Hawks gave up much to get him, it was no sure thing Jamal would work here. It did work–so well, as it turns out, that Crawford had a big year and now is angling for one last big contract. Success is expensive.
As for Jamal’s value on the trade market, I’m told at least three teams inquired about his availability before the pay-me-or-trade-me news came out but were rebuffed by the Hawks. I’ve got to think Sund will try to re-establish those talks now and listen to any other offers that come in. I know there’s some sentiment to just deny Jamal the extension and have him report to camp (and he would), but would it be a good look for the Hawks to have an unhappy camper?
– The Hawks are expected to sign free agent center Etan Thomas within the next few days. The one-year deal would be worth the ninth-year vet’s minimum of $1.2 million, though the league would reimburse the Hawks for any amount above $854,389.
–The report saying Pape Sy reached a buyout agreement with Le Havre is inaccurate. It still could happen, and soon, but there are some significant financial issues to work out.
– Hawks single-game tickets will go on sale Sept. 27.
MC
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213 comments Add your comment
PD
August 31st, 2010
6:11 pm
All of the worthwhile just signed big deals and are untradable at this point. Unless the Hawks wait and get Dalembert from the Kings who I think could be traded at the beginning of the season because he would be part of that team for 3 months
jason
August 31st, 2010
6:16 pm
If jamal wants out we trade him for chauncey billups.
Macaroni Tony
August 31st, 2010
6:17 pm
You have to love Ron Artest, I’m so ready for this up can coming NBA season. Ron Artest takes on Doc Rivers via Twitter
http://www.foxsportswest.com/08/30/10/Ron-Artest-takes-on-Doc-Rivers-via-Twitt/landing_lakers.html?blockID=300600&feedID=3687
Mike10
August 31st, 2010
6:19 pm
If they lose Jamal there going to take a step back there no doubt about that unless they get someone who can impact the game the way he did.
jason
August 31st, 2010
6:20 pm
Etan gets signed. i want to see the hawks go after jerry stackhouse and allen iverson
jason
August 31st, 2010
6:28 pm
MC if we sign pape do we send him to the d league. Ive heard rumors that we would
truthspitter
August 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
David Lee got 6 years $80 million. Offer Al 6 years $85 million and go on about your business that’s basically what he would get on an open market if he were a free agent in this class with Boozer and Lee anyway. As for Jamal, call those 3 teams back if they have a C, SF, or PG worth talking about that does not send you into luxury territory anytime soon. Keep it simple “dumb Sund of a GM”.
ryan
August 31st, 2010
7:11 pm
I believe with Atlanta being a big music media market that Mello’s wife would like Atlanta and that Mello would like to play with Joe .
cp
August 31st, 2010
7:12 pm
Still smh@ them about to sign Thomas. Dude has health and injury concerns. He is not the same player he once was. Why not sign Boone who is younger, grabs more boards, and blocks more shots. He also doesn’t have the health and injury concerns that Thomas has………As for Jamal. take the best offer you get for him and call it a day.. Jordan Crawford and a guy like Flip Murray would provide the scoring off the bench.
GT Alum
August 31st, 2010
7:34 pm
MC, which would suit the Hawks better? To have an unhappy Jamal, who I don’t think is stupid enough to not play for a contract this year if he doesn’t get one this offseason, or to have fans, many of whom feel like the conference has improved while the Hawks have stayed the same, feel that the Hawks got fleeced in a trade because Jamal tried to force his way out of here and that the Hawks are now worse even though the conference has gotten better? Once again, I have a hard time seeing an unhappy Jamal being as bad an influence as JR Rider was. And the Hawks had trouble drawing last season. I already wouldn’t be surprised if attendance declines this season. Unless they want to move the team, frustrating fans further with what is perceived as a bad trade doesn’t really help them any.
I’ll temper what Dos Hawkquis said a little bit. The Hawks can’t let another team hold them over a barrel because Jamal is demanding a trade. I’d think it’s better to keep an unhappy but still in a contract year Jamal than it is to get far less in return.
85Souf
August 31st, 2010
8:49 pm
I say trade Jamal, Mo, and Za Za for Lebron(Just Playing), I think we got a good team, we better have a good enough team to compete for a Title because Im tired of getting laughed at EVERY year, well not EVERY year, just every year of my life thus far!
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
8:58 pm
If the Hawks are trying to avoid bad headlines, it’s hard to see them going after Melo, let alone JR Smith… what with Melo’s penchant for putting out hits on groupies on Twitter.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
9:04 pm
“Smoove had to go out and get an offer; once he did, we matched….now tell me why shouldn’t that have been the right approach with Marvin, who was going to be a RFA, not un.
Same for Al; let someone else make that offer.”
If anything, Smoove should have been offered a contract by the Hawks and Marvin should have gone out and found a deal on his own. Smoove had accomplished far more for this team when he was up for restricted free agency than Marvin. I can understand the sentiment to let Al go out and find his own deal like Smoove, but to be fair, Al means a lot more to this team than Marvin, and not extending him the formality that Marvin got wouldn’t look good. I’d rather they just give him the David Lee deal and move on. This team really seems to do exactly the opposite of what makes sense sometimes though.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
9:08 pm
“For you Chicago Lovers
Hoopsworld top 50 players 3 Hawks in top 25 and No Bulls
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17213”
Those are fantasy rankings. Josh Smith is a top-15 fantasy player, and Joe Johnson and Al Horford are at least top 35. That has nothing to do with real life. By the same token Golden State has at least three top-40 fantasy players when healthy in Curry, Ellis, and Biedrins.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
9:08 pm
Oh yeah and David Lee. That makes four top-4 fantasy players for Golden State.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
9:12 pm
“Jamal wants to get paid because his value is at the highest it has EVER been. 18 ppg last season and SMOY.
What if he gets hurt this season? His contract value goes down for next year. What if we get a new CBA next year? Then his contract value goes down.”
Co-sign. Too many people see players demanding trades or (in football) holding out and think they must be unhappy or bad teammates or azzholes. Professional sports is a business, and the number one priority of pretty much every player is to maximize the amount of money they can make.
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
9:14 pm
How about Jamal and Bibby for Mo’ Williams and Daniel Gibson from the Cavs? Trade Machine says it works, and –
Gives the Hawks a young legit PG who can score
Gives them a 47% 3pt shooter in Gibson, and a 42% 3pt. shooter in Mo’
Saves ASG about 3m in salaries for this year – and Mo’ is a Free Agent after this year. Hey, Jamal wants to leave…Bibby can back up Session’s in Cleveland.
We would probably have to throw in a 1st pick also, but it could be worth it.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
9:15 pm
“it goes beyond team chemistry. as Sekou notes in the same article, the Hawks are sensitive about their public image. they talk all the time about how they like that their guys don’t make bad headlines. ”
Yeah, the Hawks are a unique case. Whereas other teams generally get their bad headlines from the roster, the Hawks create the bad headlines from the front office. I’d say the ongoing Belkin lawsuit casts a worse light on the Hawks than any weed possession charge possibly could.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
9:18 pm
“How about Jamal and Bibby for Mo’ Williams and Daniel Gibson from the Cavs? ”
Any trade that involves the Hawks getting something of value for Bibby is worth considering, but Boobie Gibson is owed a lot of money for what he does (three more years at $4 million per year for a guy who isn’t even a real point guard), and Mo Williams expires after next year, not this one. That’s a little too much additional long-term salary for not enough of an upgrade in talent.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 31st, 2010
9:21 pm
Co-sign O’Brien’s 5:13 post. This roster is way too imbalanced as currently constructed for a Jamal extension to make sense.
darrell starks
August 31st, 2010
9:22 pm
Who is etan is he good ? if not what a waste.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 31st, 2010
9:24 pm
Why do the hawks continue 2 be a laughable franchise ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 31st, 2010
9:28 pm
STEVE W i like that trade william and bibby for mo but the problem is the hawks traded chill your best small forward on the team, so if you trade marvin who play small forward ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 31st, 2010
9:30 pm
MY BAD YOU SAID JAMAL AND BIBBY FOR MO AND GIBSON ? no i don’t like that trade.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandad
August 31st, 2010
9:32 pm
jason
“MC if we sign pape do we send him to the d league.
Ive heard *rumors that we would”
Just curious as to your sources? *[rumors]
Ken Strickland
August 31st, 2010
10:08 pm
Why waste money buying out Pape’s contract if all we’re going to do is send him to the D league, when we can just leave him overseas and let him develop for free? I think Jamal Crawford can see the handwriting on the wall. We drafted Jordan Crawford and we’re considering bringing Pape Sy over this yr. Both are young, talented, versatile, play excellent DEF, and are threats to take away some of his mins.
It would make sense to hold onto him until the trade deadline, and give both young guards a chance to develop before trading him. It would also give us time to find out what our biggest needs might be. Everyone seems to think center is our biggest need, but we already have an All Star starting center and one of the NBA’s most productive backup centers. With JCollins and the possibility of us adding EThomas, we’ll also have size, experience and depth.
It’s funny hearing all of this talk about EThomas’ injury history, but no one seemed to mind Shaq’s injury history when everyone was having a fit for us to sign him.
dos hawkquis
August 31st, 2010
10:14 pm
GEE MACK,
Thanks bro!! i read the blogspot daily and religiously, just been taking it all in and haven’t post since April. lol.
I really like what we have in the Hawks. JJ, JSmoove, Horfy and JCrawford were all arguably all stars last year and we have them under contract. Add a young point guard in Teague, known scorer in Jordan Crawford…a motion offense for Bibby and Marvin to get them moving off screens for their shots…a decent back up center in ZaZa, plus 2 extra bodies in Powell and Etan, I think that we will do just as well as we did last year as far as wins.
I think if the Hawks wait until February to trade JCrawford, we could get a viable center to go into the playoffs. IMO.
I THINK THAT WE WILL BE BETTER THAN MIAMI!!!
“I don’t usually watch basket ball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends.”
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
10:36 pm
Grandad – I think both MC and Sekou said they thought Sy would probably go DLeague. I don’t know their sources.
Najeh – i would probably move Mo’ down to 2, sign Carney for the vet min. to back up Marvin with some of the savings from the trade, and use Gibson as a future trade chip, or insurance in case JoCrawford didn’t work out. This would also solve our wing defense problem.
I think if we trade Jamal – and have to get 80-120% of value – anyone we trade him for will be a 1 year rental, because we can’t absorb a salary of that magnitude beyond this year, and not go over cap – depending on the new CBA.
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
10:37 pm
Najeh – the wing defense being supplied by Mo’ Evans and Carney…
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
10:39 pm
KenS – Without getting into specifics, I don’t think Shaq had open heart surgery, and then a blown ACL within the last 3 years – Hope your doing well BTW!
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
10:49 pm
And KenS – I’m for us signing Etan BTW. If we’re just going to sing a Vet Min., LD must think we need Big Interior Defense – Boone is only 6-10 (officially, I’ve heard closer to 6-8, but I’m not sure) 240 – Etan is a beast. Skinner would have also fit the bill.
I would assume we will rotate, JC3, Etan, and JC2 as the 13th guy deactivated, barring injuries on the roster of course.
I think Etan can play Dwight very well for 5 minute spurts. And not just Dwight. Good 3rd Center in my opinion. His stats are better than Collins in almost every positive statistical category
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
10:50 pm
“sing” should be “sign” in the above post
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
10:55 pm
If we sign Horford to the max – 13.3-13.6 mil. next year – we will have about 65m tied up in 8 players, barring any trades etc. Now I see the fascination with 2nd round picks and D-League guys – they’re even cheaper than vet minimum guys. Most in the $450,000.00 – $500,000.00 range. We will have to sign 5 guys for minimums with the new CBA probably, for sure basically with the current CBA, next year. Unless we keep our 1st pick, then only 4 guys.
Hello Pape Sy, Gladyr, Aminu, Siler, Hendrix, Jackson etc.
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
11:15 pm
To clear up confusion:
Horford get’s the third tier max (possibly), based on years of service, like Rudy Gay got
JJ got the 2nd tier, hometown max, like LeBron and Bosh were eligible for.
Amare got the 2nd tier non – hometown max, which is less…
Kobe has the max max.
So when we read max contract, it is max that they can get under this CBA based on years in the league. So Horford is not signing for Kobe, JJ, LeBron, or Amare type money.
SteveW
August 31st, 2010
11:18 pm
KenS – The report I read is to get Sy accustomed to NBA type play. A little different than overseas as you know, and NBA type players are different as well. Really a smart move to bring him over in my opinion, if the cost is not to much to pay Le Havre.
Geemack
August 31st, 2010
11:18 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
it goes beyond team chemistry. as Sekou notes in the same article, the Hawks are sensitive about their public image. they talk all the time about how they like that their guys don’t make bad headlines. ”
Yeah, the Hawks are a unique case. Whereas other teams generally get their bad headlines from the roster, the Hawks create the bad headlines from the front office. I’d say the ongoing Belkin lawsuit casts a worse light on the Hawks than any weed possession charge possibly could.
That post was really funny.
Ramon
August 31st, 2010
11:21 pm
SteveW, Miami will be under the same cap as well… Especially if its a hard cap.
Clyde
August 31st, 2010
11:23 pm
Please don’t forget Jamal was second on our team in points and he did that off the bench. If he is traded I don’t see anyone on our roster that can be a number two scoring option.
Clyde
August 31st, 2010
11:24 pm
If we trade Jamal Crawford we will be a 7 seed in the East next year.
Publix
August 31st, 2010
11:27 pm
We will be fine at PG, SG, PF, and maybe even at C as long as they sign ET. What we need is another SF who can contribute. One who could jump right in and can play SF is Rudy Fernandez. Please trade JCrawford for Fernandez and next year dreaft pick.
Publix
August 31st, 2010
11:31 pm
draft*
Publix
August 31st, 2010
11:31 pm
Maybe even Stephen Jackson. He is a fighter and a leader. He would calm Smith down and put some fire under JJ ass.
Hawk n the Ham
August 31st, 2010
11:54 pm
Just trade Jamal for a lottery team’s 1st round draft pick.
Reggie
August 31st, 2010
11:58 pm
Please trade JCrawford for Fernandez and next year dreaft pick.
….Please say no to drugs dude.
Big Ray
September 1st, 2010
12:12 am
Heh, heh, heh. Best post all day….
truthspitter
August 31st, 2010
6:43 pm
David Lee got 6 years $80 million. Offer Al 6 years $85 million and go on about your business that’s basically what he would get on an open market if he were a free agent in this class with Boozer and Lee anyway. As for Jamal, call those 3 teams back if they have a C, SF, or PG worth talking about that does not send you into luxury territory anytime soon. Keep it simple “dumb Sund of a GM”.
Big Ray
September 1st, 2010
12:14 am
Although I gotta say Najeh’s 9:15 p.m. post was right there with it.
Publix
September 1st, 2010
12:18 am
Reggie
Dude, just because they say that white man can’t jump, you need to get off of some of the good stuff. Fernandez is the truth when it comes to creating his own shot, taking it inside and having a ton of potential. Who would you suggest?
doc
September 1st, 2010
12:19 am
ray ditto to the last two.
TLH
September 1st, 2010
12:25 am
I like the idea of trading for Rudy Fernandez.. I can dig it.
cp
September 1st, 2010
12:26 am
I’m sorry Ken Stric but Jason Collins hasn’t been a productive NBA player in about 4 years. I don’t see him being productive this year either…. Shaq’s worst year is probably better than Etan’s best two combined. I guess that’s why some would be ok with Shaq and not Thomas. Thomas hasn’t been productive either in a few years. Why don’t we call up Priest Lauderdale and see if he wants to come sit on the bench too since we are signing bigs who don’t do much of anything. I’m sure Cal Bowdler is open to coming here and getting a pay check to be a good locker room guy. Horford and Josh ask for help and we give them a guy who who cant pull himself away from a buffet and another who cant stay healthy and when he is doesn’t do much on the court anyway. We better hope Pachulia remembers how to play ball this year because he sucked last year.