Atlanta Hawks: Do six teams have two better point guards?
Can Hawks turn the corner if Bibby is still the main point guard?
Kelly Dwyer at Ball Don’t Lie is ranking positions 1 to 30, starting with point guards. According to Dwyer, every team in the league has a point guard better than Bibby and Teague. Dwyer believes six teams have two better points: the Rockets (Kyle Lowry and Aaron Brooks), Raptors (Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack), 76ers (Jrue Holiday and Lou Williams), Cavs (Ramon Sessions and Mo Williams), Nuggets (Ty Lawson and Chauncey Billups) and Spurs (Tony Parker and George Hill).
Dwyer’s list should bring one of Atlanta’s main dilemmas into focus. The Hawks’ so-far fruitless quest for an impact big man has crowded out most other conversation surrounding the team, though I’ve tried to sound the bell at times about point guard/perimeter D being larger concerns. If Teague can’t take control the way the Hawks hope and play major minutes as an offensive spark/defensive deterrent, then center could be the least of Atlanta’s problems.
Perhaps L.D.’s “interchangeable parts” offense will mitigate the need for a playmaking point guard who can help the Hawks fight the temptation to fall back into Iso-Joe. But I don’t have to tell my blog people that the other half of the equation, perimeter D, isn’t easily solved by scheming around Bibby and JC.
– Miami’s point guards also didn’t make Dwyer’s list, and neither did those for the Lakers, Bobcats and Kings. I’m guessing the Heat’s concern with the position is somewhat mitigated by the fact that they have the East’s three best offensive players and two of them, LeBron and D. Wade, are pick-and-roll demons and defensive dynamos.
Caron Butler certainly isn’t concerned about Miami’s potential holes (which also include center, by the way, unless that Big Z/Joel Anthony/Jamaal Magliore rotation gets you going). Butler joined Jeff Van Gundy in predicting the Heat will challenge the NBA record of 72 victories. If you think Van Gundy is a blowhard and Butler is just repping the franchise that drafted him, The Sporting News polled seven former NBA coaches and all but one predicted at least 60 Ws for Miami.
– Magic Basketball took a look at Orlando’s 4-out/1-in offense and figured the best way to show its effectiveness is to play a few clips of the Hawks haplessly trying to defend it in the playoffs. Worth checking out the comments on that post to see what Magic fans think is the best approach to slowing their squad.
– The Cavs are among the teams who have announced they will wear new uniforms for 2010-11. The Hawks won’t change their unis as far as color scheme or design but the league is tweaking some of the trimmings and materials as seen in Jordan Crawford’s rookie portrait. (H/T to Super Commenter I Heart Atlanta)
MC
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205 comments Add your comment
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
9:54 am
Najeh – The 35% cap in salary is only for the 1st year – or for this year 16.324m, whichever is greater.
After that, 10.5% increases are the max per year you can give a player.
Here is the provision:
Are there exceptions to the maximum salary?
” In multi-year contracts, only the first season’s salary is subject to the maximum (but there are restrictions about how big raises can be from year to year). ” – 10.5% per year.
So the above figures are 100% guaranteed, they do not fluctuate from year to year.
JoJo the Godfather
August 20th, 2010
10:14 am
Isn’t the extension that Denver is offering Melo the most that they can offer under the current rules? They can’t offer a 4-yr extension or a 5-yr extension, right? I’m trying to think back to the last max extension that was signed by a player under contract and I’m thinking it was Garnett…My point is that I don’t think that there’s any more money waiting for Melo on another team, unless the team and Melo want to wait until next year to sign a new deal which would be risky for both parties.
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
10:28 am
JoJo – Carmelo can sign up to 6 years, here is the provision:
“These contracts can be up to six years in length. A player can receive raises up to 10.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract.”
So Carmelo could basically sign JJ’s contract with the Nuggets.
Whydoppldothis
August 20th, 2010
10:29 am
First.
KevinM
August 20th, 2010
10:30 am
DMB, you are smooth! You scoop up Melo when he is out of contract? It won’t happen……..Hawks have no flexibility when signing UFAs. Be realistic also…what has the ASG shown as far as creativity that they can improve the Big 3 here? I don’t see any significant changes in the near term.
The Knicks and any other team with big cap room can get him…..CBA non-withstanding because we have no clue what contracts will be worth once an agreement is reached.
Did I not read somewhere where management wanted to cap the best players per season at under 10M?
Melo wants to pair up with other elite stars; do we truly have enough to get him here?
I don’t see the ASG taking on another max contract and threatening E#2 as the top player on this team. We’ve been told he can get us to where we need to be.
Mitch, you make a lot of sense. Its all about how much they buy into the assistant and if they can achieve more than they have so far. I don’t see it, but I would be glad to be wrong.
JoJo the Godfather
August 20th, 2010
10:35 am
SteveW…Are you sure those terms apply when a player is already under contract?…You’re saying that whoever ends up with Melo this year can offer him up to a 5-yr extension beyond this year (making a 6-yr contract)?
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
10:38 am
Under the current CBA – Smoove can only get that secondary max amount also.
There are 3 different max amount in the current CBA:
0-6 years – 25% of cap or 13.6m (this year) – whichever is greater – This is the cap Al Horford would be signed under.
7-9 years – 30% of cap or 16.324m (this year) – This JJ’s contract
10+ years – 35% of the cap or 19m+ (this year) – whichever is greater
All of these once signed have a 10.5% maximum raise provision per annum – and are no longer based on cap space.
Hope this helps
So Rudy Gay got his max contract, which is 40m dollars less than JJ’s, just because of length of service in the league.
Same for Kevin Durant basically…
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
10:39 am
Comment about Smoove above applies when his contract expires in 3 years – he will only have 9 years in the League at that point, not 10. So he can’t sign the max max – neither could JJ.
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
10:58 am
JoJo – You are correct – 3 years is the most the Nuggets can offer until July 1st 2011
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
11:17 am
But then how did we offer JJ a 4 year 60 million dollar extension?
“Capology” is neat science……
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
11:18 am
JJ was in the exact same spot as Carmelo….And we offered him 4 years – maybe a glitch in the last CBA – I think it was actually – contract had to be signed before July 1st 2005 or something to go 4 years maybe – case with JJ
vava74
August 20th, 2010
11:27 am
ESPN’s Bill Simmons’ on Shaq’s signing by his Celts:
“Chewed-On Theory No. 1: “Why did Shaq sign with the Celtics?”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100820
I think his theory is correct and that we would never get the same result which the Celts may get from Shaq and that is precisely why he was demanding 7 or 8 million to play with us.
He would only be “motivated” to become a Hawk for money and would probably cruise his way to the bank with us.
IMO there is absolutely no valid argument to even consider discussing “the Celts got Shaq for the veterans’ minimum why didn’t we?”.
JoJo the Godfather
August 20th, 2010
11:46 am
I wonder if Memphis would consider trading Henry…They have 12 players under contract not counting two unsigned 1st round picks in Henry & Vasquez…Here’s their depth chart:
Conley / Law / Vasquez?
Mayo / Allen / Young
Gay / Carroll / Henry?
Randolph / Arthur
Gasol / Thabeet / Haddadi
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
11:53 am
JoJo – that issue has been discussed above – great idea – I’d give Memphis Mo’ – our 1st pick next year and the 2nd we got from the Suns if they’d take it.
XHenry can be a 2/3 guy I believe – no need to trade Jordan Crawford if XHenry could play the 3 productively.
Wolfgang
August 20th, 2010
12:06 pm
SteveW
who is E#2?
JoJo the Godfather
August 20th, 2010
12:07 pm
I don’t know why Memphis would want Mo in that deal. Look at that depth chart. They don’t need him. They need either an upgrade at PG or another young big to develop.
Would the Hawks consider trading an unknown in Teague plus a 2nd rounder for an unknown in Henry? Pretty risky stuff.
JoJo the Godfather
August 20th, 2010
12:09 pm
Hey MC…What about a Pape Sy update?…You said to expect some sort of resolution to be reached this week.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 20th, 2010
12:27 pm
Unless Henry can defend opposing SFs (in particular LeBron) there’s not much to be accomplished by acquiring him.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 20th, 2010
12:30 pm
You’re right SteveW, thanks for setting me straight. The max is based on the cap figure in the year it was signed, not in subsequent years.
Wolfgang
August 20th, 2010
12:40 pm
i’d like to know who is E#2?
JoJo the Godfather
August 20th, 2010
12:44 pm
I was thinking the read on Henry is that he’ll be a good defender despite being a little short at 6′6″…A combo of Marvin at 6′9″ but a little clumsy and Henry at only 6′6″ but quick would allow us to play matchups…Same situation we’re in now with Mo, its just that his lateral movement isn’t that great.
vava74
August 20th, 2010
1:09 pm
E#2 means:
employee number 2,
which means JJ,
which means Joe Johnson
I know that you did not need the last one but it sounded nice to go to the last level
vava74
August 20th, 2010
1:10 pm
Actually I missed one step:
E#2 means:
employee number 2,
which means that player wearing jersey #2,
which means JJ,
which means Joe Johnson
Wolfgang
August 20th, 2010
1:18 pm
vava74
thanx, | would have never known.
King Teezo
August 20th, 2010
1:19 pm
I’ve always said that ATL needed to upgrade their backcourt…As good as Bibby, Johnson and Crawford are offensively, them dudes suck on defense…It has never been ATLs interior defense b/c of how athletic Smith and Horford are…The problem is our slow wing players that can’t turn the corner fast enough and relying on Smith or Horford to clean up their mess, that’s why ATL switched so much on pick n rolls b/c of them dudes inability to keep up with their player…You can really notice that when Smith or Horford got into foul trouble, ATL just went down hill…ATLs bigs are good enough, they just need to be used in the right way, but they will never be successful until they clean up the perimeter defense…Peace…
SteveW
August 20th, 2010
1:44 pm
JoJo – The reason I suggested Mo’ mainly is because he is a 2/3 just like Xavier
Wouldn’t trade Teague for X, unless we have another plan for PG though.
Somebody else suggested Jordan Crawford for X – probably would have to throw in a 1st pick also – I may not be against that deal…..
I really don’t know what our scouts say about X – good character? Trouble Maker? High upside? What little I know, seems like he has a ton of potential.
And I don’t know who would be better guarding LeBron at this point – Mo’ at 32, or Xavier at 19 – I would probably guess Mo’….
truthspitter
August 20th, 2010
2:07 pm
Hoopshype.com is reporting that the Knicks have offered Wilson Chandler for Rudy Fernandez. That is stupid IMO, because Chandler is clearly the better player. So, that leads me to believe that the Knicks are looking for help at the 2 guard spot. The Knicks are reportedly receiving offers of a 1st round pick from Chicago and Boston and Chandler from the Knicks. Wilson Chandler is a 6-8, 220 pd SF, who averaged 15 pts and 5 rebs last year. The guy is 23 years old and makes less than Mo Evans this year. He is just as good or better than Marvin IMO. Here is our perfect oppurtunity to get into a 3 way trade in which Knicks get Fernandez, Blazers get a pick and a player, and we get Chandler.
Knicks get: Rudy Fernandez
Blazers get: Mo Evans and a 1st rd pick
Hawks get: Wilson Chandler
This gives us someone to battle Marvin for the SF position. We would then be able to trade Marvin and get away from his contract giving us some much needed leverage. I understand that some would be a little in a uproar about Mo and a 1st but the 1st could be like 2012 or 2013.
northcyde
August 20th, 2010
2:17 pm
It’s both perimeter and interior defense. Because one of the most important parts of interior defense, is securing defensive rebounds. This team was absolutely horrible in securing defensive rebounds.
The only guy on the team that consistently boxes out, is Horford. And even he could do a better job at it. Marvin rarely does it and doesn’t go hard after long rebounds. Zaza only goes hard after offensive rebounds ( i.e. – his own misses ). And Smoove is notorious for not putting a body on somebody. He relies totally on his athleticism to get rebounds, instead of fundamentals.
Those guys could be in great position to gobble up rebounds, and still not get them, simply because they don’t box out.
GeeMack
August 20th, 2010
2:31 pm
SteveW
Kobe at 40 is better than JJ at 25. You can’t even mention them in the same paragraph. Kobe is one of the 10 best players ever.
GeeMack
August 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
northcyde
I agree with you on the rebounding front.
The problem I have with the Hawk, is this has been a problem 3 years in a row, and it has not been addressed.
WIth Josh and Al’s limited offensive game they should both avg. double figure rebounds; 11 to 13 apiece.
northcyde
August 20th, 2010
3:04 pm
I agree GeeMack. And that definitely goes for Smoove. I’ve always said that he has the athletic ability, length, and speed to be a “souped-up Shawn Marion”, when Shawn was in his prime and was a dominant rebounder.
Honestly, there’s really no excuse for Smoove not averaging 11 boards a game. But he has more desire to become a better jumpshooter, than he does to become a better rebounder. That’s why Greald Wallace made the All-Star team, and he didn’t. Gerald is a better and more consistent rebounder. Gerald is a borderline dominant rebounder at times.
Rondo
August 20th, 2010
3:28 pm
I have heard first hand accounts how Josh Smith’s uncle Al Smith use to jump up and hang on top of the backboard to intimidate opposing teams when he was in high school. Josh’s Father and uncle are Legends back in their hometown of Albany, Ga. Thats why it makes me so mad to see Josh not play to his potential. Hopefully Josh has his attituded adjusted this year and becomes the All-Star forward that he should be.
Rondo
August 20th, 2010
3:51 pm
If Miami runs their offense through Lebron, i have no doubt they can win 65 to 70+ games. D-Wade doesn’t have to work as hard as he use to so I doubt he will get hurt this season. And Bosh numbers will show probably in less than half of his games.
Fundamentals
August 20th, 2010
4:13 pm
Rondo, nobody here cares. Go to a Miami blog please!
Amen to the rebounding. We need Josh to focus on that area cause he’ll erase points on D and get us points on O. He’d improve his scoring and rebounding by pounding the boards, no need for the jump shot. Crash the glass Kevin Willis style.
JeJe
August 20th, 2010
4:24 pm
THE HAWKS HAVE THE WORST STARTING PG IN THE NBA AND SUND THINKS THEY’LL COMPETE
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JeJe
August 20th, 2010
4:25 pm
BIBBY HAS NO TRADE VALUE THIS YEAR AND WON’T HAVE A TON NEXT YEAR
GOOD JOB OVERPAYING HIM, SUND
King Teezo
August 20th, 2010
4:31 pm
Northclyde…The reason they both don’t rbs as well is b/c they were too busy chasing guards around…Smith is rarely under the basket to get a rb, like you said he relied on his jumping…For a team that is so small they ALL need to make an effort to grab rbs, not just Smith and Horford…Really Marvin was the weak link, with his agility, he should have been grabbing way more rbs…Peace…
Rondo
August 20th, 2010
5:01 pm
Fundamentals I sense a little anger raging in your nostrils.Relax and Disengage and enjoy UGA Football and the Dirty Birdz in the coming weeks. The Hawks will still be the Hawks.
Muhammad Cali
August 20th, 2010
5:24 pm
Prediction: Miami will win 72 games and still lose in the Eastern Conference finals..hence making them the biggest disappointment in NBA HISTORY !!
truthspitter
August 20th, 2010
5:28 pm
Hawks are the dumbest franchise as of now. If the Knicks are willing to trade Wilson Chandler for Rudy Fernandez that absolutely means we could get Chandler rather it be a straight up deal with Knicks or a 3 way with Knicks and Blazers. Knicks are obviously desperate for a 2 guard if they would trade a guy like Chandler for a guy who has half his production like Fernandez.
Trade 1
Knicks get: Jamal Crawford, Zaza Pachulia and part of trade exception
Hawks get: Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler
Trade 2
Knicks get: Rudy Fernandez
Blazers get: Mo Evans and 1st rd pick from Hawks, I would also throw in a 2nd rd pick since we don’t know how to use picks well
Hawks get: Wilson Chandler
niremetal
August 20th, 2010
5:35 pm
*ding*
Wally Walker
August 20th, 2010
7:13 pm
Truthdribbler, Why in the world would the Hawks trade for Eddy(fat, lazy, heart attack, grossly overpaid) Curry. Zaza is much more productive than Curry! If a 3 way trade is involved, it has to include Marvin. His contract dump could satisify both the signing of Al and Jamal, next year. I agree that the #1 pick is tradable because how low it will be, but get something valuable. The Hawks would have to take a garbage player in addition from Portland to get rid of Marvin, but at this point, whatever it takes JUST DO IT! Use Mo and a 2nd round pick for the young french center on the bench for Dallas maybe even the #1. A good young 7 footer is better than another late 1st round SG, SF, or PF.
Go Hawks!
truthspitter
August 20th, 2010
8:17 pm
Wally you know nothing. Curry’s contract is expiring and by getting him you would be getting rid of Zaza’s contract. He is even less valuable than Marvin or Bibby. Marvin shows up once every 2 weeks, Bibby shows up once a week, and Zaza shows up about 10x’s a year. Zaza is the 1st contract I would rid myself of
Johnny
August 20th, 2010
11:20 pm
Kelly Dwyer is one of the best NBA writers there is. Don’t let your homer glasses fool you.
GrymmDaReaper
August 23rd, 2010
2:21 pm
Lol at truthspitter. Those showing up numbers are just about right.
The Truth
September 8th, 2010
12:06 am
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1072972-fan/trailers/10905102
The Truth
September 9th, 2010
1:16 am
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/hawks-moves-mean-pick-pape-sy-will-be-at-camp-will-jamal-crawford-be.php
The Truth
September 9th, 2010
1:27 am
testing
The Truth
September 9th, 2010
1:29 am
I’m still scratching head over this Pape Sy pick. According to this link:
“We know he is 6-6 and played point guard for Le Harve, a team pretty low on the totem pole in the French league. There he played just 14 minutes a night and took just three shots per game.”
The Truth
September 9th, 2010
1:30 am
I’m still scratching head over this Pape Sy pick. According to this link:
“We know he is 6-6 and played point guard for Le Harve, a team pretty low on the totem pole in the French league. There he played just 14 minutes a night and took just three shots per game.”
But we also know he was injured his first year of a 2-year contract and only played a partial of the first year. He still managed to average 5.2 points and 1.7 rebounds per game though in limited action. Since he will not be able to play out his second year for Le Harve, it makes him still somewhat of an unknown player on that team given his total pro experience is less then a year.