Atlanta Hawks: Do six teams have two better point guards?
Can Hawks turn the corner if Bibby is still the main point guard?
Kelly Dwyer at Ball Don’t Lie is ranking positions 1 to 30, starting with point guards. According to Dwyer, every team in the league has a point guard better than Bibby and Teague. Dwyer believes six teams have two better points: the Rockets (Kyle Lowry and Aaron Brooks), Raptors (Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack), 76ers (Jrue Holiday and Lou Williams), Cavs (Ramon Sessions and Mo Williams), Nuggets (Ty Lawson and Chauncey Billups) and Spurs (Tony Parker and George Hill).
Dwyer’s list should bring one of Atlanta’s main dilemmas into focus. The Hawks’ so-far fruitless quest for an impact big man has crowded out most other conversation surrounding the team, though I’ve tried to sound the bell at times about point guard/perimeter D being larger concerns. If Teague can’t take control the way the Hawks hope and play major minutes as an offensive spark/defensive deterrent, then center could be the least of Atlanta’s problems.
Perhaps L.D.’s “interchangeable parts” offense will mitigate the need for a playmaking point guard who can help the Hawks fight the temptation to fall back into Iso-Joe. But I don’t have to tell my blog people that the other half of the equation, perimeter D, isn’t easily solved by scheming around Bibby and JC.
– Miami’s point guards also didn’t make Dwyer’s list, and neither did those for the Lakers, Bobcats and Kings. I’m guessing the Heat’s concern with the position is somewhat mitigated by the fact that they have the East’s three best offensive players and two of them, LeBron and D. Wade, are pick-and-roll demons and defensive dynamos.
Caron Butler certainly isn’t concerned about Miami’s potential holes (which also include center, by the way, unless that Big Z/Joel Anthony/Jamaal Magliore rotation gets you going). Butler joined Jeff Van Gundy in predicting the Heat will challenge the NBA record of 72 victories. If you think Van Gundy is a blowhard and Butler is just repping the franchise that drafted him, The Sporting News polled seven former NBA coaches and all but one predicted at least 60 Ws for Miami.
– Magic Basketball took a look at Orlando’s 4-out/1-in offense and figured the best way to show its effectiveness is to play a few clips of the Hawks haplessly trying to defend it in the playoffs. Worth checking out the comments on that post to see what Magic fans think is the best approach to slowing their squad.
– The Cavs are among the teams who have announced they will wear new uniforms for 2010-11. The Hawks won’t change their unis as far as color scheme or design but the league is tweaking some of the trimmings and materials as seen in Jordan Crawford’s rookie portrait. (H/T to Super Commenter I Heart Atlanta)
MC
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205 comments Add your comment
KevinM
August 18th, 2010
7:33 pm
What Bibby provides is what a NBA vet min player would…..buffonery of the ASG………again.
See Zaza, Marvin, any other contract negotiation other than Smoove.
cdog
August 18th, 2010
7:46 pm
THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IS, IF THE HAWKS HAD FRANK WREN AS THEIR GM, WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT AN NBA TITLE THIS UPCOMING SEASON DESPITE WHAT THE MIAMI HEAT DID.UNFORTUNATELY, THEY HAVE RICK SUND WHO IS THE WORST GM IN THE LEAGUE.ITS A MYSTERY TO ME HOW SO MANY COULD BE SO CRITICAL OF MIKE WOODSON WHEN THE WHOLE PROBLEM WAS AND STILL IS RICK SUND.ONLY A FEW AR NOT BLINDED BY SUND’S INCOMPETENCE.AS I SAID ALL ALONG, WHEN SUND IS GONE, THE HAWKS WILOL START TO BECOME A CHAMPIONSHIP SQUAD.SUND DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE GAME OF BASKETBALL.OH WELL, SUFFER WITH HIM THISSEASON. MAYBE THE CREAM WILL RISE TO THE TOP AND WAKE EVERYONE UP TO HIM.
Fundamentals
August 18th, 2010
7:48 pm
If I were Teague I’d post that article and this blog on my locker. I think Teague will make a few folks eat crow. Bibby will provide a good spot up and it seems hopefully Sy can add a defensive wrinkle at PG if needed. We still need help at SF and C. I can live with Teague. Let the kid play, let him grow!
Gwinnett Fred
August 18th, 2010
7:52 pm
Wish the Hawks would have drafted Lou Williams (IN THE 2nd ROUND) when they had the chance back in 2005.
But hell – guess that was just a bad year for pulling the trigger on drafting a point guard! No wait – the did draft one -Salim Stoudamire (who’s still hoping a Greece team will want him too as he sits at home unemployed).
MY GOD was that draft a total disaster.
Could have drafted Chris Paul @ PG instead of MARVIN and Monte Ellis @ SG (25.5 ppg last year) instead of Stoudamire and had a backcourt second to NONE.
Oh well – when do the Thrashers head to camp??
tyger
August 18th, 2010
7:53 pm
Hawks Easy Button 1.0
Denver trades Carmelo to NYK
Knicks trade Eddie Curry/Ronnie Turiaf to Nuggets – basic cap relief
Hawks trade Bibby/Evans/ZaZa/Jamal Crawford to Hornets – cap relief and 6th MOY and BIG.
Hornets trade Chris Paul/Okafor to Hawks – Hornets unload big salaries, keep Peja for cap relief.
Denver/New Orleans behind the proverbial 8-ball. Unhappy stars leaving, might as well get something for them. Denver gets cap relief in Curry/Turiaf and still maintain competitive team. While Knicks bring Carmelo home.
Knicks try, but don’t have pieces for Chris Paul. But the cat is out the bag and Paul is on the move. Hornets implode and unload Okafor w/ Paul to rebuild. Braves’ Wren sits in for Sund and scores Paul and Okafor.
Hoops
August 18th, 2010
8:08 pm
O’kay, I’ve held off on this PG issue as long as I can. Since Denver has a ‘Melo problem, let’s see if we can help them and solve our PG problem @ the same time. This trade is fresh off of the ESPN Trade Machine:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
After this trade the Hawks would look like this:
PG-Billups/Teague
SG-JJ/Crawford2
SF-Anthony/Sy
PF-J Smith/Powell
C-Horford/Zaza/Collins
Denver saves some salary, gets a young SF to replace Melo, they get two expiring contracts that can contribute, and they get a PG for 2 years while they are rebuilding. If they are going to loose ‘Melo for nothing, why not get some pieces that can help them rebuild?
Hoops
August 18th, 2010
8:10 pm
Let’s try that link again:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28jjp2r
Paddy
August 18th, 2010
9:06 pm
Don’t put it all on Teague. Put it all on the ASG for creating an atmosphere that “good” free agent won’t touch ATL with a 10′ pole. It is an end of an era unless new owership comes onboard soon!
KevinM
August 18th, 2010
9:14 pm
Denver better move him now, and why should they send a guy who doesn’t want to play for them somewhere he wants to go? Who is in charge in this league anyway?
I would send him to the team who gives me the most the next couple of weeks, let that team deal with whether he wants to sign or move forward.
The actions of this league sometimes baffle me. If CP3 came to me and said he wanted to be traded to NY or Orlando, I would have sent him anywhere but there and let him fight it out with that team.
Get me as much as you can give me, plain and simple.
As for Sund, he is anything but a risk-taker. He hjmself tells you he isn’t bringing an elite player in here.
glw
August 18th, 2010
9:16 pm
Hoops,
The Crawford/Williams deal might get you Carmelo….maybe even throw in a draft pick and would certainly be a better deal than what New York could probably offer. But no way will they trade hometown boy Chauncey for Bibby.
cdog
August 18th, 2010
9:19 pm
i agree paddy but rick sund is to blame for the hawks plyoff failures.it was obvious to everyone that the team needed big people to be able to beat orlando, cleveland and boston in a playoff system.what did sund do and is still during? nothing.yes part can be blame on the asg but the other 95% goes to sund.just watch how the hawks get ousted this year and i guess larry drew will be the problem get ready drew, you won’t the players that you need to beat these teams along with now powerhouse, miami heat.good luck all of you hawks fans, you”re going to need it.
I Heart Atlanta
August 18th, 2010
9:33 pm
Super Commenter RIGHT HERE lol
Sautee
August 18th, 2010
9:36 pm
Rondo,
Even an old Rex Chapman had hops Bibby has never even dreamed of.
Hoops
August 18th, 2010
9:47 pm
glw,
I agree that getting Billups is a long shot, but I have read several times that their owner is considering rebuilding the team if he decides to trade C. Anthony. He may want to move Billups’ contract if he is going to rebuild.
Sautee
August 18th, 2010
9:51 pm
Speaking to vava74’s 7:08 post:
All pro sports will be in contraction within 5 years, due to energy shortages. The IEA report that came out last Tuesday said, in effect: “The Age of Cheap Oil is over”. Here’s a link where you can find a story about the report:
http://www.energybulletin.net/
Scroll down the front page about 2/3 of the way. The article is by Matthew Wild.
The IEA (International Energy Agency) is a VERY conservative bunch. For them to say that is truly frightening.
Enjoy this season while we HAVE a Hawks team to enjoy.
Bobby defender
August 18th, 2010
9:54 pm
Bobby may have his faults, but I am very tired of all the bashing. I remember all too well before he arrived here. His arrival changed the trajectory of this team. Criticize him all you want, but when he arrived, our team went from being a joke to at least being in the area of the elite teams. I watched this team for over a decade after the Dominique years and we were pathetic We rebuilt, slowly, but when Bibby arrived, we changed from a non factor to a factor. Hate him if you want, but it is what it is, Bibby elevated us. As a fan, I am glad he did and happy to have him on the team.
Melvin
August 18th, 2010
10:04 pm
How the heck can he rank CP3 number 1 for this upcoming season when he dang near missed the whole season last year… And why the heck is Ty Lawson in every picture???
Rondo
August 18th, 2010
10:10 pm
Bobby defender- Are you talking about Bobby Brown or Mike Bibby
Rondo
August 18th, 2010
10:12 pm
Sautee, you are right on that one, I should have said an old Steve Kerr.
drmaryb ^•^
August 18th, 2010
10:41 pm
Bobby Defender
Enthusiastic Co-sign, you nailed them Bibby Haters in their bloody eye balls!
Najeh Davenpoop
August 18th, 2010
11:00 pm
Don’t know how true the doom-and-gloom about energy is, but I’m not going to sweat contraction. All three major sports (I don’t know anything about hockey) have needed contraction for a while. Each league is at least three or four teams too big, and the NBA and MLB each need to shave several games off their schedules. And as much as we like to complain about the DASG, there are several smaller-market teams who would be candidates for contraction long before the Hawks.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 18th, 2010
11:01 pm
I thought he was talking about Bobby Cox… if he was, his post would actually make some sense.
Mike10
August 18th, 2010
11:05 pm
I agree I think there under estimating Bibby yes he is a liability defensively but the guy can stretch the floor he still can shoot the 3 and is solid midrange two things I think Teague needs to improve before he take the reigns I say start Bibby.
jcboyett
August 18th, 2010
11:06 pm
Jrue Holliday and Lou Williams, please, Evan Turner may have more point guard skills than either one of those guys
Grandad
August 18th, 2010
11:16 pm
truthspitter
If you were referring to my post:
“We don’t need a stretch 4 or 5.
How is that going to help us defensively?”
I said:
“a *long*, stretch [4,5] is our biggest need.”
Inferring:
Length = defender of the paint. [rim]
Although [this hypothetical player] offensively
would best fit as a face-up *[5].
*[Laimbeer] or the reincarnation thereof.
Grandad
August 18th, 2010
11:18 pm
Laimbeer still lives.
I mean’t *reincarnate*
in the basketball sense.
Grandad
August 18th, 2010
11:27 pm
vava74 @ 7:08 pm:
Thoughtful, well written, *Honest
and on point. Bravo!!!
Rev in Tampa
August 19th, 2010
12:20 am
The question marks for this year’s Hawks:
1. Will Teague be ready to take over the point and thrive? We know what we have in Bibby. He is not as decrepit as some like to make out. The good news is that Drew knows a lot better than any of us how ready Teague is right now. And he is putting all his eggs in Teague’s basket.
2. Who will be the last big man added to the roster? The good news, as I see it, is that the Hawks have not run out and signed any of the remaining free agents, yet they have clearly indicated that they expect to add another true center. This obviously means that the Hawks plan to work a trade in the future for this position.
3. How much improvement will the Hawks make on the road? This is the mental toughness issue we have discussed from time to time on this blog.
4. How much improvement will the Hawks make on defense? This really reflects back on the first two questions, particularly Teague. We know we have the nucleus of a very solid defensive team – JJ, Marvin, Josh, & Al are, from what I understand, above average defenders. They were 10th in the NBA in scoring defense (97.0 ppg). This is really pretty good.
5. How well will Drew coach? Everytime I read something Drew has said this becomes less of a question. He is saying all the right things and prioritizing all the right issues. Plus he knows this team and this team knows him.
A real strength of this team is that we have so few questions. We know who they are, what they are capable of, and how they will stack up against most of the teams in the Eastern Conference. My dad always says, the more gadgets a car has the more possibilities that something will go wrong (he always bought manual windows until they stopped making them).
A real weakness of this team is their lack of quality depth. The Hawks are an injury away from a meaningless season (like the 2003 Falcons after Vick got hurt in preseason).
Big Ray
August 19th, 2010
1:20 am
1) Kelly Dwyer is a joke. He has never thought much of the Hawks. He sits at home wishing his name was Jim Rome.
2) Teague is an unknown. It’s that simple. Yes, he needs work. I still don’t get how that’s a surprise after all this time. I mean really , a former 19th pick in the draft who played 10 sporadic mpg in his rookie season? What, he’s not ready to take over the world already?
3) If Teague fails, it will be yet another guy who has not been able to help this franchise overcome Billy Knight’s draft gaffes. Yes, I said it AGAIN.
4)Rondo’s posts always make me laugh.
Big Ray
August 19th, 2010
1:25 am
i agree paddy but rick sund is to blame for the hawks plyoff failures.it was obvious to everyone that the team needed big people to be able to beat orlando, cleveland and boston in a playoff system.what did sund do and is still during? nothing.yes part can be blame on the asg but the other 95% goes to sund.just watch how the hawks get ousted this year and i guess larry drew will be the problem get ready drew, you won’t the players that you need to beat these teams along with now powerhouse, miami heat.good luck all of you hawks fans, you”re going to need it.
Let’s say Rick Sund is a freakin’ idiot. You get mad because he’s an idiot. But how do you continue to refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that SOMEBODY IS KEEPING THIS IDIOT EMPLOYED ? 95% of the problem lies with the idiot? WRONG. 95% of the problem lies with the people who keep the idiot in place to keep making his idiot moves.
Of course, that’s assuming that you think Sund is an idiot. And if you can’t see this…well, you’ll never understand why the village celebrates every time you go on vacation…
vava74
August 19th, 2010
3:50 am
Thanks for the props.
I really think that this “super friends” trend is extremely dangerous if it sticks and we see a series of replicas.
Just on west-east conference balance we could be witnessing a huge shift in power soon if ‘Melo and Paul get traded to the East.
sam'l
August 19th, 2010
5:07 am
Guess what…..it’s gonna be joe and josh and al and mike and marvin……jamal, pachulia, and the usual gang of suspects, a new offense which should be good for 10-20 more points a game and 55-60 victories.
The Hawks gonna have to play some D and run. Bibby, Pachulia, actually about half the roster are expendable.
I’d take Carmelo. But why would anyone want to play in Atlanta? The media (not you MC) sucks, the city seems violent and directionless, the weather is downright horrible……. ..It’s sort of like the Cleveland of the south….
drmaryb ^•^
August 19th, 2010
7:39 am
Rev in Tampa
Once again, you nailed them points on the head blind-folded!
A very entusiastic co-sign!
I took an elaborate Sony VCR to the repair shop many years ago, and the man told me the VCR was meant to do TWO things – play and record. The more features the more things that can go wrong. Lesson learned, never buy features you don’t need.
Why buy a DVD – VCR combo, when VCR’s are obsolete and the DVD doesn’t record? Your Dad taught you well!
O'Brien
August 19th, 2010
7:41 am
Rev in Tampa,
This obviously means that the Hawks plan to work a trade in the future for this position. .
My guess is the Hawks are waiting to see who gets cut from other teams (roster or training camp rejects). I really dont see them making a trade (not before the trade deadline).
vava74
August 19th, 2010
8:43 am
I know that it is not popular to show some support for Bibby, however, you should check out this link:
http://nbaplaybook.com/player-scouting-report-mike-bibby/
All his shortcomings are clearly evidenciated in this scouting report, so it is not a pro-Bibby piece, however, you can also see a lot of clips where is bball savvy is clearly showing in particular in loads of details which pass unnoticed to the casual observer.
BBall is a lot more than stats.
CONFEDERATE DAWG
August 19th, 2010
8:44 am
HAWKS ARE DEAD IN THE WATER VS TOP TEAMS. JT HAS 5TH GRADERS JUMP SHOT AND BIBBY COULDNT STAY IN FRONT OF SCREEN DOOR. BEST BET IS TO HOPE MARVIN STEPS UP AND WE CAN PLAY JAMAL AND JOE AT POINT. WHEN POSSIBLE PLAY THE HELL OUT OF JT AND HOPE HE GETS BETTER.
COME ON HAWKS
drmaryb ^•^
August 19th, 2010
8:51 am
VaVa74
Spot -On!
I posted the exact same comments last week, I titled that post
Pandora’s Box:
I also see a possible trend of players picking their own team mates, like at the local parks, where all the talent lines up on one side of the ball and pummel the scrubs. That is not competitive nor impressive nor fun to watch.
Also, the ball hogger makes for bad chemistry within his own team.
It can be quite counter – productive to the under-lying game plan.
With the pressures of the NBA media and fan, it will not be a cake walk for the Super-Friends – Who want to Rule the World!
Great Job – VaVa Voom!
Dan
August 19th, 2010
8:57 am
Sign KWAME!!!!
vava74
August 19th, 2010
9:20 am
drmaryb,
thanks for the props!
O'Brien
August 19th, 2010
9:58 am
I saw this on the falcons website. It was from the GM TD.
“…we are looking into a lot of different aspects of athletic performance, as well as scouting as it pertains to statistical analysis…” .
We have had the discussion before as to whether or not the Hawks use statistical analysis as a part of their scouting. I think the Houston GM is a big stats guy.
Going up against a team like Orlando for example, I can see where statistical analysis can be useful.
MC,
Do you know if the Hawks front office or coaching staff utilizes statistics (or have a stats guy on staff) to help with their scouting and strategy?
newkid
August 19th, 2010
10:21 am
MC, suggest you expand the story line to include: “Do X teams have ownerships more willing and capable than ASG?” and “Do Y teams have GM & Asst GM more capable than Sund?” and Do Z teams have pro personnel evaluation departments more effective than Hawks?”. All signs point to the foregoing if unhappy with how Hawks’ guards compare with others in league.
richbrave
August 19th, 2010
10:41 am
Reading and sayin’ hello HAWKS fans. Been consumed by the LEE for prospects deal which just put HOTLANTA on an even par with PHILLIE provided DERRICK’s back holds up, and his performances at the TED improve (lifetime .237 BA).
ryan
August 19th, 2010
11:03 am
Lee would be great then it is certain that Al Horford will move PF .
drmaryb ^•^
August 19th, 2010
11:35 am
ryan
Dereck LEE is the new 1st baseman for the Braves, not a center for the Hawks.
Nice Try.
O'Brien
August 19th, 2010
11:51 am
richbrave,
Glaus has been horrible on the road and at home, so Lee can’t do any worse. Plus I think Freeman gets called up in September.
drmaryb ^•^
August 19th, 2010
12:01 pm
RichBrave!
OMG! What’s up home boy?
So great to hear from you and thanks for dropping those pearls of wisdom!
How have you been & How’s the family?
How ’bout them Braves!
KevinM
August 19th, 2010
12:07 pm
O’Brien
August 19th, 2010
9:58 am
I saw this on the falcons website. It was from the GM TD.
“…we are looking into a lot of different aspects of athletic performance, as well as scouting as it pertains to statistical analysis…” .
We have had the discussion before as to whether or not the Hawks use statistical analysis as a part of their scouting. I think the Houston GM is a big stats guy.
Going up against a team like Orlando for example, I can see where statistical analysis can be useful.
MC,
Do you know if the Hawks front office or coaching staff utilizes statistics (or have a stats guy on staff) to help with their scouting and strategy?
OB,
Im not sure they have even given Sund a computer yet?
And how can his assistants be so highly regarded when he is in the lower tier of GM assessments?
KevinM
August 19th, 2010
12:08 pm
Could Sund be talking to Memphis about Xavier Henry? Is it possible?
Chad
August 19th, 2010
12:08 pm
Not only does this present a problem for this year–but it presents a problem for the next few years. Offense runs through the PG and starting Bibby is just delaying the ‘learning curve’ period for Teague.
Here’s to Coach Drew naming Bibby the starting PG for political reasons and knowing in the back of his head Teague will win the starting job.
KevinM
August 19th, 2010
12:12 pm
Haha, Memphis thinks they have the league’s worst owner:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/aug/19/griz-get-trade-offers-for-henry/
The guys wants to put incentives into the contract to make him earn them…how dare he?