Atlanta Hawks: No go on Earl Boykins
When I saw Christopher Reina’s report at RealGM about the Hawks “reaching out” to Earl Boykins, it didn’t make sense on a few levels.
For one, from everything I’ve heard the Hawks aren’t really interested in adding another guard. Also, Boykins doesn’t really seem to fit into L.D.’s “interchangeable parts” philosophy. And why would the Hawks add a veteran point guard when they are trying to bring along Teague?
But I figured maybe the Hawks wanted to bring Boykins to camp as some kind of insurance, so I checked it out. I was told there’s nothing to it, that it’s a “crazy rumor” and that the Hawks are still focused on adding a big man. So it looks like Boykins won’t even get a camp invite from the Hawks.
– There should be a resolution to the Pape Sy situation this week. He’s looking for a buyout from Le Havre of the top French league.
“I like his size,” L.D. said. “He’s really strong on the drive. I don’t know if he’s been watching NBA players already but he’s already doing things that NBA players do. We will try to get him in here for camp.”
– ESPN.com’s Ric Bucher reports that Carmelo Anthony and the Nuggets are likely to part ways. The Nuggets have offered Anthony a three-year, $65 million extension, and Bucher said Anthony is contemplating signing the extension and then asking for a trade or not signing the extension and forcing the Nuggets to trade him by the February deadline.
The interesting thing about Anthony is how despite his elite scoring ability he doesn’t rate highly in some advanced statistics. David Berri is the latest stats guy to break it down, concluding that Anthony produces only 1.44 wins above an average small forward largely because he’s “not a particularly efficient scorer” and that “other than an ability to get to the free throw line, Melo is not outstanding with respect to any other aspect of the game.”
(In case you are wondering, Anthony produced .145 win shares per 48 minutes in 2009-10 compared to .112 for Marvin.)
Marc Stein on ESPN just said: “New York is where [Melo] wants to end up.” But do my blog people think Melo would be worth the money plus the assets it would take for the Hawks to acquire him?
MC
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196 comments Add your comment
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
3:02 pm
Melo wants to go to the Knicks so we can leave the Hawks out. What about a 3 team trade where the Hawks can somehow get Ne Ne. Or i would be satisfied if the hawks get the guy with lips painted on his neck Kenyon Martin.The Western Conference is loosing all of its big-name free agents through free agency. I guess that makes it a whole lot easier for the Lakers to make a run for a 3-Peat.
Rufus1
August 17th, 2010
3:05 pm
Melo trade
I would not trade Josh for a 1yr rental. I would would trade Marvin and Jamal because we aren’t going to re-sign Jamal. Melo would replace Jamals scoring and Marvin’s size.
You Can’t give-up Marvin and Josh for Carmelo…That is too much.
The Nuggets would do that trade today.
Ben
August 17th, 2010
3:08 pm
Just want to see who make think this sounds good. We trade JSmooth and Jamal Crawford to Denver for Melo and JRSmith then Al, Marv, Bibby to portland for A Miller and G Oden
Wink
August 17th, 2010
3:19 pm
How about Melo,Birdman Andersen,Ty Law in exchange for Josh,Marvin,Bibby — per Trade Machine —gives us a +7 in win total and save about a Million bucks???
Rufus1
August 17th, 2010
3:20 pm
No Leverage
The Nuggets have no leverage…he is leaving them anyway.
STOP ACTING LIKE A UGLY GIRL TRYING TO DATE A HANDSOME MAN….
YOU CAN’T GIVE AWAY EVERYTHING FOR A 1YR RENTAL.
What can they get for a 1 year rental that would be better then Jamal and Marvin?
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2010
3:22 pm
I would be fine with a trade for Melo ONLY if they could agree on an extension ahead of time. It would be a risk not worth taking to give up valuable assets for a guy who might not be willing to stay after this season.
With that said, if we were operating in some fantasy world where the DASG was willing to take some risks and Melo agreed to an extension here, I’d probably be willing to go as far as to include either Josh or Al (but not both) in a trade for Melo. And if Al was being traded, I would probably demand Nene in return so that the Hawks wouldn’t be left with nobody who can play center. Melo may not show up in the leaders among win shares (a number that I don’t really understand and can’t really comment on) but there’s no denying that a Joe-Melo-Josh/Al combo would be one of the NBA’s foremost Big Threes in pretty much every respect. And for those of you bringing up usage rates and what not, I’m pretty sure Pierce, Allen, and KG were all heavily used before they teamed up, as were the Unholy Trinity in Miami.
In reality though, I think if the Hawks are looking at Nuggets players, Chauncey Billups is a more realistic and less expensive option. I’m assuming any big trade the Hawks make will involve Jamal’s expiring contract, and trading him for Chauncey would allow Bibby to be completely expendable while freeing up minutes for Jordan.
KevinM
August 17th, 2010
3:22 pm
Non-Melo talk because this ownership group has no clue how to swing a major deal with an elite NBA player. I bet Melo defends LeBron better than Marvin though.
Boykins doesn’t help much; a bit player who is not known for distributing the ball.
Give me Alston because he does move the ball to his teammates, and I know his character could be in question….Sund doesn’t like to take a risk.
If you need a post player, why aren’t they looking at DeAndre Jordan, who is on the last year of a 850K contract? Doesn’t make sense to me, because Kaman, Aminu and Blake Griffin in front of him.
Jordan should get plenty of reps here behind Al and take some of Zaza’s minutes. I bet Jordan can help withe Dwight and the Celtics frontline.
You gotta think cheap around here to see what the ASG might consider.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2010
3:24 pm
And of course, needless to say if the Hawks can keep their top 3 players and simply replace Duck with Melo, I’m all for it. I don’t think the Nuggets will be that stupid though.
KevinM
August 17th, 2010
3:29 pm
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/deandre_jordan/index.html
6′11″ 250 and would be a good pickup for a 2nd rounder….so if you can give up the Childress 2nd rounder, you get depth immmediately on a 1 year trial…..
For anyone who thinks Mo Evans has value…..please, you couldn’t trade him for a new set of game balls. He offers nothing of value. You gotta have some value to get some value.
bigdave
August 17th, 2010
3:29 pm
lol @ trading away the entire team @ 3:08
just SHOOT me
August 17th, 2010
3:30 pm
Carmelo. An Atlanta Hawk? Yeah right. No top name NBA free agent would ever want to join the Hawks under the current circumstances. Well maybe perhaps if they had ties to the city. I mean Joe Johnson is the biggest star this city is going to see anytime soon and that’s downright a shame!
Although since we’re on the topic: I wouldn’t mind sending over Josh Smith and Marvin Williams in a deal for Carmelo and maybe like a Ty Lawson or Chris Anderson type. Will it happen? Of course not. But it’d be interesting. I think Carmelo and Al Horford would pair up rater nicely. At least I can dream a little, right?
And who have wanted Earl Boykins to begin with? I mean seriously. I knew there was nothing to that rumor. We’ve a young guard in Teague and an old fossilin Bibby. Why sign a 34 year old Boykins? It would’ve made no sense.
ryan
August 17th, 2010
3:32 pm
Just because what the press says does not mean he is going to the Knicks everyone thought that LeBron James was going to Knicks also Joe Johnson . Nuggets want players in return and the Knicks don’t have anybody there is a window open for the Hawks to get Mello.
KevinM
August 17th, 2010
3:34 pm
For any other PG to come in here, we are going to have to rid ourselves of Bibby…..Bibby’s reign ends on 4/30/2012.
While Melo is the headline, Sund is digging into his vet minimum file for that next solid bench/towel bearer/good guy in locker room support guy….just in case.
He told all of us he wasn’t going to be bringing in any elite players here. He is backing E#2 and will surround him with ‘gems’ to not upset the core.
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
3:37 pm
I wouldn’t give up Josh, Al or Marvin for Melo. Now I would be glad to part ways with Bibby, Evans, Teague or Jamal.
no justice
August 17th, 2010
3:39 pm
The reasons we should to trade our best players to Denver are; They won a championship, they have gone furhter in the play off, Carmello’s stat’s are better than Joe’s, Denver have better skiing. Must be the skiing
northcyde
August 17th, 2010
3:40 pm
JMar
August 17th, 2010
12:59 pm
In case you are wondering, Anthony produced .125 win shares per 48 minutes in 2009-10 compared to .094 for Joe Johnson.
****************
This is a flat out lie . . for both guys.
What this dude cited, were Melo’s and JJ’s CAREER win score per 48 numbers, not their 2009 – 10 numbers.
JJ’s win score per 48 minutes last year was .140 . . . Total win score: 8.4
Melo’s win score per 48 minutes last year was .145 . . . Total win score: 7.9
Always double check people when they give you stats . . .including myself. That’s why I like to link my stuff, so that you can see it for yourself.
People love to tell lies on these blogs.
O'Brien
August 17th, 2010
3:40 pm
KevinM,
The interesting thing is Mo Evans thinks he is underpaid. I wish we could find a taker for him.
Najeh,
That’s my thinking too. Trade Mo Evans for a backup big, and then sign a free agent SF to the vet minimum (Rodney Carney or Damien WIlkins).
As for Melo, I dont think Denver will trade him. I think they will make him play out the season, and try to resign him next summer, or if he wants to leave, they will tray and work out a sign and trade.
The Truth
August 17th, 2010
3:41 pm
Are we being played again by Management?
MC statement: “the Hawks are still focused on adding a big man”
If there is any “Truth” or validity to this statement then MC should allow-up and ask management the 10M question: Will this next hotly pursued Big Man be playing as the option #3 or option #4 backup center? Because if he’s option 4, how relevant would he be that far down the bench? His minutes will likely be in the RandMo scrub category unless there is an injured player. The option 3 guy may see more minutes compared to last season, since Drew seems willing to move away from Woody’s tight rotation. But last year when Collins was option 3 center, he rarely got off the bench. Given the limited talent centers that remains, I can’t see how much of a difference this next “Big Man” signing will be with respect to his projected role on the team at vet min money (if he’s option 4). Maybe at this point, it might be better to just sign a young project (from camp) and hope for the best. But the hoodwinking of an “important” Big Man signings is over. They can’t fool us again with that nonsense.
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
3:44 pm
No Justice when did Denver win a championship?
northcyde
August 17th, 2010
3:45 pm
And I never believed the Boykins article for one second. Maybe as a coach, the Hawks may be interested. But as a player. LOL.
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
3:48 pm
northcyde- Thanks for the props the other day.
lou hudson
August 17th, 2010
3:49 pm
The Melo trade desires are futile. The more realistic trade and FA signings are: Trade Mo Evans (2.5mil expiring contract)for Dallas’ Ajinca and aign D. Wilkins and still be a million under the cap.
northcyde
August 17th, 2010
3:54 pm
The Truth . . if they are going to add a big man. I think they’re going to wait until someone of interest is cut from another team’s training camp. They’ve already proven that they weren’t serious in upgrading the frontline with a legit rotational player to help Horford and Smoove. We’re going to have to hope that Zaza plays at a high level off the bench next season.
northcyde
August 17th, 2010
3:54 pm
No problem Rondo. You told the truth man.
KevinM
August 17th, 2010
4:01 pm
Mo Evans is only useful if you have to match salaries. Otherwise, he is 2nd on the depth chart behind the incumbent. Def a weak position for us.
Our problems are bigger than Mo Evans…..3 names, Zaza, Bibby, Marvin…those are the ones that hurt your cap numbers. 2 of 3 have to go to see anything if significance happen.
Funny, last year, we were trying to keep these guys under 20M…..
JoJo the Godfather
August 17th, 2010
4:03 pm
MC…I know the Hawks can’t comment on him because he’s currently under contract in Charlotte, but are you hearing anything on Erick Dampier?…Do you have any idea when (or if) a decision has to be made on his non-guaranteed contract?…Can he be cut during the season or does his contract become guaranteed at some point?…I’m not sure which teams have salary cap or MLE money available to offer him a deal either.
KevinM
August 17th, 2010
4:07 pm
I remember Sund mentioning how he doesn’t like to make changes of any significance during the season.
Based on what I read re: playoff slots and seeding from MC’s previous blog, it sounds like we better make a move soon to improve our starting 5 or we will be at a disadvantage this postseason.
I am not under the impression that the ASG thinks we are in learning mode with plenty of time to improve?
3Klub
August 17th, 2010
4:12 pm
I would do it in a heart beat. It would probably take something like Marvin and Jamal Crawford and his expiring 10M but absolutley.
Al, Josh, and Melo would be one of the most athletic and talented front lines in the league. Melo could bring the low post scoring we need here as well as star power.
I go 5 on it right now.
drmaryb ^•^
August 17th, 2010
4:12 pm
Reposted from last blog:
(And they said – No Child Left Behind).
NorthCyde
Great post to show an example of hidden gems overlooked.
If I’m not mistaken Blair has no ACL’s (a congenital anomoly),
meaning from birth.
Hey, you know what they say – You can’t miss what you never had!
Who is that star receiver who is a Pro – Bowler for the Steelers?
He went to UGA. He’s half Asian and half African-American.
(uggh! What’s his name?) He was also born without ACL’s also.
The good thing about not having an ACL is that you can’t tear it, if it’s not there.
Not only that, the other ligaments of the knee, when in a highly trained athlete?
Those ligaments become stronger and more supportive to the knee.
These two athletes would never had known they didn’t have ACL’s had someone not told them and they believed it. The go about their business and play all out.
Again, I don’t know the details of DeJuan Blairs knees, but, regardless, he is one heckuva’ player anyways.
Who is that Steeler wide receiver? He’s a little long in the tooth now, but that man was unstoppable as a speedy receiver.
GeeMack,
Thank You for the informative article from the LA Times writer, I enjoyed it.
How are you doing Gee Mack? Keep those hot and intellectual posts coming sir.
Fundamentals
I know man, I hope the new guys, (Pape & Gladyr) make all your “wet dreams” come true as well! ROF & LOL! I knew you’d get a laugh off of that one!
- Mmmmmmwah! – (a wet kiss!) & a wink.
Fantastic Posts from all you guys! Awesome and varied opinions for sure.
I don’t miss the “Library Man” one ioda’! (If he had some sense he could still be posting from the comforts of his home.)
drmaryb ^•^
August 17th, 2010
4:19 pm
Blackberry for Dummies
Rev in Tampa: Thanks for the Select/Copy/Paste lesson!
I’m burning this Blackberry up now. Good thing that’s all I know how to do on here, or I would never get any work done.
-smiles-
MC
So, Earl Boykins is a no go? That story heated up and died before I ever knew it was a story. I’ve been so busy, but … I will go and read your article before I make a comment on that. Don’t want to be an uniformed poster.
- smiles & Mmmmwah! -
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
4:20 pm
Drmaryb- Hines Ward has no ACL, wow I didn’t know that. You just gave my brain a new wrinkle!
Wolverine
August 17th, 2010
4:32 pm
What about Kevin Love? He is unhappy in Minnesota and he is 6-11, 260 and could possibly provide. I dont want to disrupt the core, but the Hawks are young enough and Minnesota is still rebuilding. Why not trade Mo and a future 1st round pick for Love?
Simpdawg
August 17th, 2010
4:36 pm
I would trade Joe Johnson to Denver for Melo right now!!!
jason
August 17th, 2010
4:47 pm
if we want melo we shouldnt be stupid and trade jamal al or JC2. We trade a whole lot of people like zaza, mo, marvin, and bibby. i tried it out this morning and it worked
wordsmithtom
August 17th, 2010
4:47 pm
Offer JJ for Melo. Nothing else from our core. Take it or leave it.
If Melo doesn’t like situation here, he could walk, but we have all that cap space next in next year’s CP3 derby. JC1 at shooting guard and Marvin first man off bench. We win: Melo probably signs for what we gave JJ. We could not replace JJ this year….we probably can next with JC1’s expiring coming off books and Bibby’s team option. A lot more flexible next year.
I don’t expect anything….Melo wants to go to NY, but I’d make the offer.
KevinM
August 17th, 2010
4:48 pm
Where did you see Love was unhappy in Minny? Jefferson is gone already…they aren’t going to move Love also…..they avoided Cousins in the draft…..I think that opinion is a bit off.
We sign E#2 and a rush of people are ready to move him…..shows you what the home team fans think about him..that he is worth Melo?…..I don’t…it would take Al or Smoove as well along with a draft pick to get to the head of the pack vying for Melo dollars.
Smaller moves = Sund and no impact to the salary cap, where I see we are 12th in the league in team payouts.
:Listening to Cowherd this am….he said in order to win in the NBA, you build your team for the playoffs….have we done this? He also said you have to be at the top in Rebounding or at the top in defense….are we heading in that direction? Not according to what I hear LD’s agenda is this offseason…
Anyone disagree that we were one of the top efficiency offensive teams last year? I couldn’t believe that was a viable stat. Hard to imagine that iso-SG was a successful model.
truthspitter
August 17th, 2010
4:59 pm
Glad to hear that Boykins thing got cleared quickly because I was coming here to vent about that. As for Carmelo I would do it if Denver took this trade.
Hawks get: Carmelo
Denver gets: Bibby, Zaza, Marvin and 2 future 1st rd picks in 2011 and 2013
Denver is reportedly looking for another big and they would need a new starting SF.
The reason why I say that’s the only trade I would do is because
A. I would not give up Josh or Al
The big question is would Denver do that?
B. This keeps us under the lottery threshold even after signing Carmelo to a Joe Johnson deal and resigning Al.
The trade:http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27k28h2
truthspitter
August 17th, 2010
5:00 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27k28h2
mark
August 17th, 2010
5:01 pm
i don’t believe our management would even attempt to make a move for melo, the man can straight up ball, his punk ways are behind him. i would at the most trade josh/ marvin or marvin/ jamal. for melo.we can dream can’t we
doc
August 17th, 2010
5:11 pm
northcyde, one more interesting fact about what it takes to rent seats for hawks games:
The TMR fan index listed the Hawks with the 12th highest average ticket among NBA teams last season, the first time since 2001-02 in which the average ticket price league-wide declined. The Thrashers were 14th in the NHL.
cheap owners want fleeced fans.
tyger
August 17th, 2010
5:12 pm
Carmelo would be a coup for ATL !!!
LaLa is a hip-hop queen and ATL is Black Hollywood – good fit on its face – but ATL is Southern Crunk not true Hip Hop – and not enough international flavor to be considered a true metropolis. Much like A-rod, when he told the Braves he was an Armani guy and they were a jeans and boots franchise. It could work, ATL not NYC, but it aint Denver either. There’s enough star power here for them to adjust – but still – there’s no place like home.
Denver and ATL have pieces:
Carmelo, Chauncey and Nene.
Marvin, Bibby, ZaZa, Smoove, Evans and Jam Crawford.
Chauncey
JJ
Melo
Horford
Nene
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
5:14 pm
KevinM- One thing that Cowherd did mention is that the hawks are a second tier team. I think he mentioned the hawks with Phoenix, Portland, Chicago and Milwakee. I agree that the Hawks ain’t doing nothing to win championships. But one good thing is that you do have a viable team with the hawks that brings exitement. Atleast the Hawks isn’t the door mat of the NBA.
truthspitter
August 17th, 2010
5:15 pm
tyger: Who asked you what true hip hop is and there are plenty of Atl artist who don’t have anything crunk about them. You still stuck on Little John crunk been dead for quite sometime now
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
5:16 pm
Can you guys believe that the Knicks out drew the Lakers last season, just imagine if they can bring Melo’s talent to the NYC.
Rondo
August 17th, 2010
5:17 pm
Yeeeeaaaaaahhh!
drmaryb ^•^
August 17th, 2010
5:21 pm
Rondo
Yes Baby! Hines Ward! I was going crazy from not remembering his name.
I need to upgrade my weed quality and see if I can get that “California-Endo”
shipped out to the East Coast. I hear it’s legal in Cali!
Ha Ha! All jokes aside, yeah Hines Ward was born w/o any ACL’s!
How is that working for him?
Pretty darned great! Hugh?
Rondo,
What’s your new wrinkle? Shall we hire Guido to remove Marvin’s
ACL’s? You know, addition by subtraction?
Thanks for the answer to my question! Now I can rest my mind.
- Mmmmmwah! -
KevinM
August 17th, 2010
5:21 pm
Rondo, best name by far….I gotta ask, if you aren’t going for the championship, how can you justify to the fan base that this is enough?
Its time to accept something more than mediocrity. The Phoenix door is closing fast….I think Chicago and Milwaukee are on the upswing. Portland is changing management to become a top West contender. At least all those 4 teams give hope to the fan base and haven’t been totally humiliated with their main rival in their own division.
No way we improve against Orlando; we stand pat………that is what Dwight likes…he has no worries about us.
GeeMack
August 17th, 2010
5:22 pm
truthspitter
Marvin has 4 years left on his deal. Zaza has 3 & Bibby has 2 years left on his deal. The Nuggets are not looking for a 3rd PG in Bibby. However the Hawks have attractive players and contracts to throw at the Nugget to sweeten the deal.
I would be willing to give up one of my core players, if Melo signs the 3 year extention only.
The Truth
August 17th, 2010
5:27 pm
Northcyde
Re: “I think they’re going to wait until someone of interest is cut from another team’s training camp.”
A thought for today:
Never try and second-guess this Hawks Management Team
For they will surely make us all look STUPID
What seems up, is really down (with them)
What seems logical, is really illogical
What seems illogical, is really logical
What seems expensive, is really inexpensive
What seems inexpensive, is really expensive
What seems to be a “high-priority”, is really “low-priority”
What seems to be a “low-priority”, is really “high-priority”
What seems to be The Truth, is really a lie
What seems to be a lie, is really The Truth
From A Persian Proverb:
“He who knows but knows that he knows is wise, follow him”
So if we are STUPID in our expectation of them, as long as we know it, then it must be OK
Najeh Davenpoop
August 17th, 2010
5:33 pm
“For anyone who thinks Mo Evans has value…..please, you couldn’t trade him for a new set of game balls. He offers nothing of value. You gotta have some value to get some value.”
Mo Evans has an expiring contract, and expiring contracts ALWAYS have value.