Atlanta Hawks: Drew says Teague ‘has got to earn’ Bibby’s spot

…and MC, I didn’t mean that as a diss, but of course Teague should have to earn the job. It’s amazing how many people thought that it would be handed to him.

• Link
• Report this comment

After re-watching a few games from last season, I agree. But I hope Jeff can really push Bibby and hopefully getting the starting job by mid-season.

• Link
• Report this comment

seventh

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Pedro – Estoy contento está de acuerdo.

• Link
• Report this comment

It will take a new PG to move this team forward. Bibby, if he buys into it, could be a good backup, in a 1/2 court set.

Good stuff MC; the biggest change this offseason in the rotation.

• Link
• Report this comment

And @ 20 minutes per night I think he could easily go for 7 points and 4 assists per. That would be a very good back up point. Honestly, starting has never been the issue, it’s finishing as Jamal C was typically on the floor at PG during the close of games last season which will likely happen again.

• Link
• Report this comment

Get’em both outta here!

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby is rank last among point guards, and on top of that no defense wow!!!!!! LD will be just like woody what a stupid comment.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

smh…..TRADE MIKE BIBBY!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Glad to hear that LD will give Teague (can we drop the rook label) a fair chance to compete for minutes and play with the starters unlike his treatment under Woody.

• Link
• Report this comment

MC BIBBY DAYS ARE OVER.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Our pg wants out of New Orleans…Give up Bibby, Teague and a future #1 and let’s right the wrong that was made when we didn’t take him #1. Otherwise it’s Miami,Orlando,Boston, then maybe Atlanta…The truth hurts to write this but everybody has gotten better but the Hawks I love.

• Link
• Report this comment

Its a shame that Teague has to earn the starting job over Bibby.This lets us know that Teague just ain’t that great. If Teague can’t win the starting job MC is it any reason to keep Teague around?

• Link
• Report this comment

Grandad? Why is it that kids these days feel so entitled? Why are they so afraid to give 100% and fail miserably but with respect & dignity? What’s wrong with competition? I just don’t get it. I’m feeling old…relatively speaking.

• Link
• Report this comment

Running motion offense has a side benefit.
*It helps your defense.
your team has to work harder in practice
defending each other thus the game seems
easier. You work on all situations in practice
every day. Therefore any situation you see in
games will be easily recognized & defended.

“Work hard in practice to make the game easy”
[paraphrase]
‘Bob Knight’

• Link
• Report this comment

I like it. I thought in Teague seemed a little ho-hum in Summer League at first. As long as Bibby is servicable, he needs to work for his paycheck. Plus he’s shown a willingness to teach Teague a thing or two. Bibby shouldn’t see heavy minutes but he’s still needed at this point.

• Link
• Report this comment

This offense will be great but like Drew said expect a lot of turn overs. Man i hope Josh becomes a better passer in this offense, dude scares me every time he touches the ball on the perimeter. And Bibby has to handle the ball much better he got stripped a lot last season. Marvin seems like he will benefit greatly from this offense.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rondo – I must respectfully disagree.
Under the previous coach, no competition
at all was ever utilized. People have griped
about Marv retaining his starting pos.
I think JT should earn his job.
[which I think he will]
I hope LD maintains a culture of competition
throughout his tenure.

Fundamentals – we’re in accord.
Let’s feel old together.

• Link
• Report this comment

I still like how LD is handling Teague, but I wonder if Doc Rivers were our coach, I believe he would start Teague and give him THAT opportunity to lead this team, just like he did Rondo when Rondo wasnt the Rondo he is now.

• Link
• Report this comment

It just shouldn’t take that much of a showing to move Bibby to the bench. Teague will be a big let down if he doesn’t prove himself early. Bibby coming off the bench with his 3 pointers will be deadly in Drews motion offense. But I do understand Grandad that overall team competition makes a better team. But I do believe that Bibby is more useful coming off of bench than being a starter. If Teague doesn’t work out move JC2 to point. It may teach JC2 patience.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Rondo – with Teague’s growth being stunted under Woodson and Bibby being more familiar with these players, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a close battle. But Teague has something Bibby doesn’t – functioning knees that won’t give out halfway through the season. Even if Teague can’t beat out Bibby for some reason, shouldn’t he get starting experience under his belt over a guy whose legs will likely give out before the season is over?

• Link
• Report this comment

Who cares who starts? I’m more concerning about who finished the game. Which guy will be in the closing group should tell us who’s more effective on the court. I’m sure most players would prefer to finish over starting the game. Starting is more an ego thing than anything else.

• Link
• Report this comment

Couldn’t stand it, Priest went from China to Iran after some work in Bulgaria. Seems he’s not exactly dominating the Iranian leagues.

• Link
• Report this comment

@JC Act like a Rook get treated like a Rook. Don’t blame Woody Blame Teague.

• Link
• Report this comment

It would be more exiting if Teage and JC2 were fighting for the starting job.

• Link
• Report this comment

Why can’t JC2 compete for it? Sy even? Should be open to anyone, honestly.

• Link
• Report this comment

With so much riding on Teague’s development, it will be “high-stake drama” (no don’t) to see how this all plays out. As I understood, Drew sold himself based on his innovative offense along with the development of Teague. This created a perception of a real departure from Woody with high expectation for change. However, if that turns out not to be the case and liability-Bibby at the helm remains liability-Bibby at the helm, then this whole “new voice” idea with Drew “blows up” before it gets started. Since Sund has basically ignored the outcry of acquiring quality depth, adding this additional drama to the mix only makes the situation worst. Since we are in August with no games played yet, the voices of “just wait and see” can continue to have a credible argument at least until tip off. Until then, the “doubting Thomas observers” will have to endure the “premature exuberance” as this debate continues.

• Link
• Report this comment

Tony – I agree to a point that Teague right now is more Jason Terry than a natural PG. Remember, that’s why we traded Jason – he couldn’t handle point for us.

But unlike JT, I think Jeff T is a little more comfortable at PG than JT was this early in his career.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m personally not sold on Teague. In fact I believe the future backcourt could very well end up being jordan crawford and JJ. I was way more impressed with crawford then teague during the summer league games.

• Link
• Report this comment

if we have to depend on bibby,we will have the same offense as last year,also he plays no defense. he lost the job last year even tho woody didnt think so .we should have gone after a pg in the draft if we thought teague could not handle the job. i thought he played great in the summer after starting out shaky.
he brings defense & penetration which bibby cant do. this team will go no where with bibby. he doesnt penetrate or make great passes,in other words he dont break the defense down. teague should be told that the job is his unless he cant handle it & in that case i would start grooming jc2. with bibby we will still have that damn slow offense making jj the primary ball handler. i thought that ld had some guts,this leads me to think that much hasnt changed from last year.

• Link
• Report this comment

tony / Rondo / others

not arguing – just talkin’

As for Teaguer bein’ a [2] playin’ the [1]
Billups did okay making the switch after college.
Teaguer is a [1] / no doubt.

Before you start;
No way do I think JT ever becomes Billups.
Who I think is one of the *all-time* greats.

Now, as far as Jordo is concerned,
I do not see him in the pt g competition.

• Link
• Report this comment

Teague-Lacks confidence,has to be pushed and babied,still behaves like a Rook, do-boy
JC2-Very confident, aggressive, ready for any challenge, determined to get better
Bibby- Kind of a malcontent, lost determination to drive to basket, great spot up shooter, great motivater while on bench
Teague future = A.C. Law if he doesn’t get it together
JC2 = Future starter-Better fit for L.D.’s offense

• Link
• Report this comment

Grandad, how long did it take for Billups to become the player that you respect and admire? Like maybe 5-6 years and 2-3 teams?

• Link
• Report this comment

Grandad doesn’t jc2 have a better chance of becoming a Billups type guy. He’s athletic has a great shot and has decent handles.And in L.D.’s offense he won’t have to handle the ball that often. I just feel jc2 should be groomed to be the point over Teague.He is more of a threat on offense and defense. Is taller and has better range. They are about equal on their ball handling skills. Teague just get too rattled and doesn’t look confortable at point. Hope to see him prove me wrong, starting with camp.

• Link
• Report this comment

Have we ever looked at starting jocraw? He put up better numbers than bibby and teague did in Xavier. He a little of mike bibby and teague. He’s a good defender and is a shooter. Coach drew If we are to have any respect in the East lets start a guy who can play. think about it………

• Link
• Report this comment

*Jose Juan Barea [iyr contract]

[ 1 yr contract ]

1 have no 1dea what a i yr. contract 1s.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Jason – Jo. Craw = 0 NBA game experience. Teague = at least some NBA experience. You want to replace Teague because he doesn’t have enough experience with a guy who has never played in an NBA game? Also, we’ve had our fun playing SGs at point. Time to grow up and use a real PG.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Rondo – “Come see your favorite teams play the Hawks” is an advertisement purchased by ASG, not the opinion of the AJC. Also, that’s not a new slogan, they’ve been using it for years because it works better on Atlanta fans.

• Link
• Report this comment

LDrew was hired to correct the problems the team had under Woodson, and making players accountable and earn their positions is an excellent start and departure from the favoritism Woodson practiced. One thing I have a problem imagining is Bibby in the motion OFF cutting to the basket to receive a pass and laying it up.

I’m not saying he won’t be able to do it this season, but based on last seasons performance, it’s just hard to imagine. The motion OFF will give us a tremendous advantage when closing out gms. DEF’s won’t be able to lock onto certain players, like JJ or Jamal, and everyone becomes both an inside and outside scoring threat.

For me, this is going to be a very exciting season. I see LDrew getting more efficiency, consistency, and overall OFF and DEF production out of our players and team.

• Link
• Report this comment

@BigTimeTECHFan – “Don’t Agree: There should be cases where a player can lose his starting job. I Think bibby did that last year.”

What happens if you diss Bibby and then find out that Teague is not up for the task of starting right away? What you’ve potentially done is burned one bridge and found out that you can not cross the river on the other.

A little perspective. This is not the start of the playoffs. It is not even the start of the season. We are talking about the start of training camp.

And for those of you who are writing off Teague because Drew is not handing him the starting job, I need to ask, “Are you just trying to bait us into argument?”, because I cannot come up with any other rational notion why you cannot see Drew’s motives & method.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby no longer can play at a high level and his replacement can’t even hope to replace him as a starter. Thats more bad news! We are still waiting for the ASG to go after free agents aggressively. Is that not what we heard at the start of the free agent period? Liars!

• Link
• Report this comment

Jordan should also be given a fair shot at the PG position, but i have a hard time seeing him beating out two non-rookies for that spot. He’s got good instincts as a passer, but whether he can actually handle the ball and direct the offense against an NBA first team defense remains to be seen.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ajinca was a good defender, rebounder and shot blocker in the D League. He might be a prospect that makes the trasition. Seems like a hungry kid looking for his opportunity. We’ve got one. Why not? I’d rather see him than Collins!

• Link
• Report this comment

JC- I know because the slogan works on me everytime. But i live 2 hours and 45 minutes away from Atl so I have an excuse.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ The Real JC – that look on JT’s face in the photo above is a groan of frustration at seeing Crawford headed back to the scorer’s table.

• Link
• Report this comment

One obvious advantage Drew is having as Woody’s ex-assistant coach, is the knowledge of the AC Law experiment. Acie was drafted as the Hawk’s 1st round 11th pick PG and publicly hailed as the Hawks future pg by BK. This turned out to be a big mistake as Drew obviously took notice. Declaring publicly a “just drafted” player the Hawks future pg by the GM set the stage for Acie’s lackadaisical non-aggressive attitude. When he was given quality minutes to run the team, he played the pg position as though he was “entitled” and showed no hunger for the job full time. This is primarily what led to his disappointing tour with the Hawk. By Drew going on record with a position that Teague must “earn” the starting job, sets the proper tone for him to prepare his mindset. Since Teague has a 2011/12 and 2012/13 team-option structured contract, his motivation should be clear. Take Bibby’s job or risk losing his job and possibly be traded. After this year, the honeymoon is over.

• Link
• Report this comment

BIBBY HAS NEVER MADE AN ALL STAR TEAM

STOP CALLING HIM A FORMER ALL STAR

• Link
• Report this comment

@Paddy – “We are still waiting for the ASG to go after free agents aggressively. Is that not what we heard at the start of the free agent period? Liars!”

The Hawks made the most expensive free agency signing of the off-season. And they did it more quickly than I had expected. With that signing they put the Hawks right back in the playoffs.

I have heard several on this blog say that the Hawks lost ground this off-season because the Heat got better. But the Cavs got worse. I don’t know if the Celtics got better. I do know they got older. I reject the idea that the Bulls or Bucks surpassed the Hawks, but that’s only my opinion… firmly held.

With the signing of JJ, the Hawks made tremendous strides. They would have fallen out of the top tier of teams in the East had they not signed him. That counts for a lot! After JJ, NO OTHER free agents that the Hawks could afford were available who would move the Hawks into an ELITE status. (I am leaving Shaq out of the equation for the sake of argument – I will address him in a subsequent paragraph).

We need another piece of the puzzle to put this team into an elite status. The market dictated that we were not going to get that piece through free-agency. After the Heat, Bulls, Knicks, & Nets cleared all that cap-space (raising the hopes of all their fans) they assured themselves of the cream of the free-agency crop. The Hawks couldn’t compete with them after they signed JJ. But they did sign JJ. They did it so aggressively that they did not even give the other teams the chance to tempt him away. That counts for a lot.

Shaq would have improved the Hawks, but would he have pushed them into an elite status? That is very debatable – and so we have debated. I don’t think he would have.

So we are left with the possibility of a future trade or not. I believe the Hawks will make a trade. But I am expecting/hoping for a trade that will really propel us forward toward an elite status. I believe that they will get more value if they sit on their hands right now. And since money can’t simply be printed (except by our wasteful govt), ‘value’ is a significant word.

Our trade bait is anybody on the Hawks but Horford, Johnson, Smith, & Teague (assuming he develops).

• Link
• Report this comment

I’ll broaden my question. Has anybody on this blog successfully predicted a trade between any two NBA teams?

My larger point is, the Hawks have more great options than we can possibly predict when it comes to a trade. It is **irrational** for us to be negative toward the Hawks when the possiblity for such improvement lies before us in the future. For you to be negative towards the Hawks, and hope to persuade others on this blog to your point of view, you must PROVE that the Hawks will, WITHOUT A DOUBT, do nothing more to improve this team before the trade deadline. Since you can’t prove that, then the only **rational** attitude you as a fan should have is optimism.

• Link
• Report this comment

uh oh, lol

• Link
• Report this comment

Y’all are forgetting that Bibby ran a motion offense at SAC under Adelman. If Teague doesn’t start, he’ll have an excellent mentor showing him the ropes.

Also, there’s this: When Bibby was traded here we IMMEDIATELY dropped our turnovers by almost 2 per game. That’s crucial in a tight game where two possessions can make the difference. Yes, his defense has suffered a falling off in the last season and half, but he still takes care of the ball, and has vastly more experience than Teague. If he can make his outside shot consistently (which he did NOT last year), his defensive failings will be somewhat offset.

That said, I fully expect Teague to be starting by mid-January if not before. If NOT, we need to trade JC1 before the trade deadline for a starting PG.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee, I agree. We have to evaluate our needs before we start getting rid of all our assets.

• Link
• Report this comment

Someone’s baaaaccckk!

• Link
• Report this comment

larry drew should know teague better than anyone. he coached teague and the 2nd unit in practice last yr. apparently teague hasn’t shown much in practice for larry to say this publicly.

i am wonderin’ about this motion offense. larry ran this offense in practice. how did he perform against the 1 team? did they blow the 1st team out on a regular basis? if so, woody was a fool to not encorporate some of the motion offense into the iso. if it wasn’t successful against the 1st team in practice, what makes larry drew think that it will work against other teams in the league?

• Link
• Report this comment

MC,

Thanks for paying attention.

Do you think the Bibby / Teague tandem is good enough to compete with the upper part of the conference?

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee, you are correct. If Teague is not ready (by January) then the Hawks should not expect to go any further in the playoff than they have previously in the last two years. A trade for a center would be irrelevant. We might as well re-hire Woodson. He was good at coaching to hide weaknesses. But, as we all know, we need a coach who knows how to exploit other teams weaknesses with the Hawks’ strenghts.

I am really looking forward to seeing Teague develop. I get very little Hawks basketball on TV since I live in Tampa so I rarely, if ever, saw Teague play last season. From what I hear from everybody on this blog, they didn’t get to see much more of him that me because of Woodson’s rotation. But I did watch Teague closely in the Summer league. He is quick! I would love to see the Hawks’ athleticism with him at the controls. If Teague develops the Hawks will be great team (in terms of wins) and extremely fun to watch.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev,

If you have access to DirecTV you can order NBA League Pass and get all NBA games. It’s pricey, but that’s the only way I know that you could see the Hawks other than the national tv games.

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee, I’ve got bigger obsacles to watching the Hawks than the price of NBA League Pass – My wife & three teenage daughters. My nine year old son has yet to develop my love for basketball.

• Link
• Report this comment

Heh….

1) MC mentions that Teague had a higher assist percentage than Bibby, and you hear ZERO noise from some corners. All stats are stats, big or small. We’ll see what happens when the lights come on and this time the minutes are REAL.

2) Mike Bibby never made the all-star team. Ever. It can be argued that he was snubbed in ‘03-’04, in ‘04-’05, and in ‘05-’06. But he never made it. However, that can’t take away from what he used to be able to do, particularly in the playoffs. Sadly, the past is just that….the past.

3) Teague will earn something. We don’t know what it is yet. Being a starter is nice. Being in the game when the clutch moments come is even more crucial. As Marvin Williams what the difference is….

4) We still don’t really know Teague’s mentality. His physical attributes are great. Doesn’t mean much if his mentality isn’t right. We’ll see, but I have hopes.

5) In some ways, I like to latch onto the Chauncey Billups theory. But in some ways, that’s plain foolish. They didn’t know what Chauncey was when he came into the league (SG or PG). He ended up being a trade piece for teams who had other things in mind. He could have faded right on out of the league or ended up being a journeyman combo guard, ala Flip Murray. Instead, he became a star on the right team, with the right coach, who had the right vision. And then he stayed a star, because his potential had come to full fruition. Teague could be on the right team with the right coach (with the right vision) right now . Which would mean it wouldn’t be a path like Chauncey had to take (2-3 teams, 5-6 years).

Again, if his mentality is right, it can happen. Larry Drew seems like the right guy to bring out of him what we hope is there. I never believed that Woody was that type of guy, but that doesn’t make Woody a bad guy. It just makes him the wrong guy for the situation. Some guys are Chaunceys. They have to have the right situation and be given a chance to get settled in (Rajon Rondo). Some guys are not, they’re just plain stars (Chris Paul, Deron Williams).

Ya dig?

• Link
• Report this comment

One more thing Rev:

The #1 goal of the ASG is to NOT build a championship caliber squad. Their #1 goal is to assemble an “elite level” squad, while staying under the Luxury Tax. That’s straight from management’s mouth.

There’s a difference in those 2 statements.

Statement #1 indicates that a team will make the kind of moves that will put them in contention to win a title, regardless of the situation. When you see the 2009 Champs LA Lakers trade away a guy who came up big time for them in the playoffs, and trade him for Ron Artest of all people, you know that organization is always looking to improve the squad.

Statement #2 indicates that they will try to construct the best team they possilbly can. But when they get close to the allocated budget, the priority is to stay under budget at all costs. Even trades need to be under budget. And that’s exactly what the Hawks philosophy is.

It’s not that the philosophy of the Hawks is bad. If you can build a legit title contender by doing it, the philosophy is great. But teams with this philosophy will more than likely balk at making the major move, if it puts them over budget.

Question for all of you who anticipate a trade between now and the Feb. deadline. If a trade DOESN’T happen, what then? Will you be mad at ownership for not trying to upgrade the squad at that point?

I don’t have many doubts that the Hawks won’t be pretty good next season. We’re the #4 seed at least right now.

I just don’t trust them to make a “championship caliber” move, if a situation arose in which they could make one.

• Link
• Report this comment

We are currently approx. 2.85m under the cap (luxury tax line to be more specific).

We have a 3.66 Trade Exception

We have our Full Midlevel Exception

We have our 2 year Vet Exception

We have 2 expiring contracts in Jamal (whom I hope we don’t trade) and Mo’.

We are certainly set up to deal – Sund is a vulture. Let’s see if he can get us something.

• Link
• Report this comment

We are somewhere between the #3 seed and #6 seed in the East. We really won’t know until the regular season is played.

And if Dwight and Lebron or something were to go down, why not the #1 seed.

I still think the Heat are a glorified version of us last year. They are weak at PG and C – and in the playoffs, those weaknesses will be exposed.

I think the Celts, Magic, and Lakers have a chance to beat them in a 7 game series. Really anybody who has some good wing defenders, and are beasts inside with good Point play.

Their still gonna be fun to watch – Wade flying down the lane – dishing to Lebron for the jam – or dishing to Bosh for that matter.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jason – it depends on numerous factors – are the Hawks going to carry 13 guys or more?

Is there a trade involving Mo’?

At this moment I think Sund is intent on signing another big – Elson, Skinner, or Boone maybe. The scouting reports I’ve read say Boone is the best of the bunch, but the NJ Nets blogs say stay away from him at all costs – can’t really tell why other than he’s been kind of a bust there.

But I have no problem with us signing Stackhouse – could probably give us a few useful minutes.

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] Michael Cunningham’s most recent blog, Larry Drew states that Jeff Teague has to win the starting point guard spot  from Mike Bibby in training camp. “He’s got to earn that,” L.D. said. “It’s not just [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

@northcyde – “Question for all of you who anticipate a trade between now and the Feb. deadline. If a trade DOESN’T happen, what then? Will you be mad at ownership for not trying to upgrade the squad at that point?”

Northcyde – I forgot to answer your question. I’ll probably be a bit frustrated, but it would be silly to let something I have no control over, especially a game, control me. I’ll also apologize for my 7:11pm post. But until February I’ll stand by it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Woke up to watch the Falcons & Chiefs pre-season football on the
NFL Network. My Dirty-Birds look solid at 20 – 3 ending the 4th.

Very soild defense and lines play.

The Hawks got to do the same on stingy defense play and front-line strong plays.the QB (John Parker Wilson) playing very solid as well.
The Hawks got to do the same with JT0 as the back-up PG as well.

Quality depth at all positions is what I am witnessing in this football game.
The starters must be able to get that rest and hydrate their bodies, for the 4th and decisive quarters of gamesan when the opponents are tired as well.

Like a Doc huddle – Together & Team!

• Link
• Report this comment

Man, everyone seems to be much more positive and analytical, and it’s so refreshing to read your comments. Then again, it could be just the lack of negativity. Virtually everyone has made solid and valid points.

There was one point brought up that I found to be odd. The discussion was on Teague being a SG coming out of college rather than a PG. Well, if you feel that’s an issue with Teague, why suggest Jordan Crawford compete for the PG position, since he was a SG in college as well?

Don’t put too much into LDrew’s comments about Teague having to earn the starting PG job from Bibby. If he had any concerns about Teague or Bibby’s ability to run his OFF, he’d certainly have more 2 PG’s on the active roster. I think it’s just his way of impressing upon his players, especially Bibby and Teague, that the old culture of entitlement for some and deprivation for others is a thing of the past.

I think Bibby, Teague, Evans and both Crawfords will be in Drew’s rotation and get consistent mins. I see JJ moving to SF when Drew sees where he can exploit match up situations at those positions. It appears LDrew intends to be very proactive in his approach to coaching this team, rather than nonreactive, which was Woodson’s approach.

• Link
• Report this comment

Reading Between the Lines!

re: Ken Strickland

“Don’t put too much into LDrew’s comments about Teague having to earn the
starting PG job from Bibby. If he had any concerns about Teague or Bibby’s ability to run his OFF, he’d certainly have more 2 PG’s on the active roster. I think it’s just his way of impressing upon his players, especially Bibby and Teague, that the old culture of entitlement for some and deprivation for others is a thing of the past.”

That is the way I read it as well, apparently we have our own
Zen-Master! Coach Drew is working pyschology 201 on this team already.
I for see a new culture of competition and accountability at the
PG and last week, the Center positiions.

That, Ken, is – Rich!

• Link
• Report this comment

terrell (don’t call me “te-relle”)

Now, that Sir, is the 6 Million dollar question.
Does Marvin have to earn hos spot too?

ROF – LOL

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby starting again? I could beat out Bibby my dam. self. If he’s still the starter after a few games, it might be time for us to start looking for another pg.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think it was real crazy to hire Larry Drew to be head coach——-He can not do more than Mike Woodson did–all they need was a little more help for Coach Woodson—Now Larry Drew have the same Team Coach Woodson had lets see how much he gets done—-NOTHING–MARK MY WORDS

• Link
• Report this comment

If Denver senses that they may lose Carmelo in the middle of the year, I wonder if they would consider a JC, Marvin, and 2nd Rounder for Billups.

• Link
• Report this comment

For the last time. Childress makes it clear that he didn’t have a problem coming off the bench for the Hawks (so it must be another issue why he’s not with the Hawks). He specially said he got a decent amount of playing time and finished many games on the court. Just like I think it’s a non-issue with Teague.

He’s comes on around the 30-min mark.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/08/10/hang-time-podcast-episode-21/

• Link
• Report this comment

“If he had any concerns about Teague or Bibby’s ability to run his OFF, he’d certainly have more 2 PG’s on the active roster.”

Sund controls personnel decisions, not Drew. The fact that there are only two point guards on the roster is either because Sund thinks the two they have are sufficient or because the DASG is too cheap to add another one. Sure, Drew may have been consulted, but generally coaches don’t have a ton of say on personnel unless they specifically ask for it when they are signed like Avery Johnson.

• Link
• Report this comment

“It should be blatantly obvious from the off season approach of RSund and the ASG, they felt the majority of our team and player problems were the result of what MWoodson did or didn’t do, not a lack of oveall talent.”

This is true, but at the same time it’s not necessarily a smart move. Sure, Drew could come in and completely change the culture of the team and take the exact same roster much further than Woody, but the odds of the team improving are much greater if the personnel issues (of which there are several) are addressed IN ADDITION TO hiring Drew. The DASG and Sund, in their effort to prioritize saving money over improving the team, have put all their eggs in one basket. Maybe — hopefully — that one move works, but you can’t tell me the Hawks wouldn’t have been better off giving Drew a little more roster depth with which to work.

And signing two guys who would have a hard time making the D-League All Stars to the same amount that other teams were signing infinitely more productive players doesn’t count.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ JeJe . . . I don’t know if you’re a member of Hawksquawk or not. But that whole Jamal Crawford possibly holding out story, was started on there in this thread. It was first spoken about it there, then Yahoo commented on it.

Everything that is reported on these NBA websites isn’t gospel. Remember the whole Shaq drama? It was first reported that the Hawks offered Shaq the full MLE for 2 years. At the end, we find out that the Hawks didn’t offer more than around the vet minimum for Shaq. And who was the guy that was telling us all along that the Hawks didn’t offer anything over that amount?

Michael Cunningham.

But those NBA blogs were either going off of something said off the record about Shaq, or they got their idea from reading THIS BLOG or some other Hawk-related blog talking about Shaq.

In this world of “sources say” reporting, anybody can make up just about any story. And if it sounds realistic, people may believe it.

The guy on Hawksquawk claims to have directly talked to Sekou at Kroger, and had a convo with him in which Sekou revealed that information to him. So take the Crawford story with a grain of salt. All I know is that Michael Cunningham has been right more times than not, even if he didn’t report on a story first.

• Link
• Report this comment

Good interview between Sekou and Chill. He directly addresses that Hawks situation at 38:30 in that podcast.

@ Najeh . . . exactly.

I mean, forget Shaq for a minute. They could’ve gone out and try to get ANY player that could be a good rotational player, had they committed to spend more than the vet minimum on a player. Even if the only thing they did, was find a way to add Chill to this roster, people would be a lot less apathetic and/or negative about our offseason.

If people believe ( or want to believe ) that Jason Collins and Josh Powell will be good rotational players, then go right ahead. But don’t expect knowledgeable NBA fans to be cool with two scrubs like that. They are no more than bench fillers.

• Link
• Report this comment

NAJEH-Rather than delve into the FA market like they said they’d do, the ASG has obviously decided to wait until they see what they have in HC LDrew and PG JTeague. Who knows, by the trade deadline we might find out we need a PG and/or SF more than a backup center. I just don’t think they’re going to try and resolve all of our roster issues all at once, especially this far ahead of the season opener.

A lot of us might not like their strategy, but there’s certainly nothing wrong with it. If anyone is concerned about the contracts of MBibby, Zaza and MWilliams, remember who insisted on them being resigned(MWoodson). In fact, Woodson was pretty much given everything he wanted. BK and RSund resigned every player he wanted back, traded for the vet PG’s he wanted, got rid of every player he didn’t want, and didn’t draft the PG’s he didn’t want(CP3/DWilliams).

They gave him what he said he wanted/needed to meet their primary expectations, which was to improve in the playoffs, and he still failed. I see no reason they won’t be just as accommodating for LDrew, but not until everyone gets a feel and knowledge of what we have. Only then can we determine exactly what we need.

We could find out that Zaza and JCollins are a far more productive combo at center than JTeague and Bibby are at PG.

• Link
• Report this comment

“We could find out that Zaza and JCollins are a far more productive combo at center than JTeague and Bibby are at PG.”

We “could” also find out that Joe Johnson is a better player than LeBron James. We “could” find out that President Obama is actually half Chinese. We “could” also find out that Osama bin Laden is actually Santa Claus and hijacks planes to deliver Christmas presents to children. I try to talk about what is likely, whereas you are talking about what is possible. Anything is possible; not everything is likely. A team that wants to win has to increase the likelihood of success to as high as it can possibly be, instead of relying on possibilities that cannot be counted on to come true. This is why even the champion Lakers made a significant trade to swap Ariza for Artest instead of hoping that Ariza develops into a more physical defender who can pose problems for players like Kevin Durant. This is why the Eastern Conference champion Celtics go out and sign Shaq instead of hoping that Luke Harangody can step into the void left by Kendrick Perkins. This is why the steadily improving Bulls and Bucks go out and make significant acquisitions instead of hoping that Taj Gibson can develop into Carlos Boozer or Ersan Ilyasova can develop into Corey Maggette. These teams don’t sit on their hands and hope for the possibility that scrubs at the end of their bench suddenly become productive. They go out and do what they can to increase the likelihood of winning a title. In short, they approach free agency like they want a championship, while the Hawks approach free agency like they want to merely be good while saving money.

Based on what he has done throughout his career and in the last three years in particular, the likelihood of Jason Collins doing anything useful in the NBA ever again is basically nonexistent, and yet he’s being paid roughly the same amount of money as Shaq, Jermaine O’Neal, T-Mac, Matt Barnes, and a host of other players who are actually useful. As much as I’d like to, it’s hard to be “GLASS HALF FULL” when the ownership not only doesn’t spend money on quality players, but does spend money on garbage. I’ll repeat what I’ve said many, many times already this offseason — it’s not just that the DASG doesn’t spend money, it’s that when they do, they spend it unwisely.

• Link
• Report this comment

“If anyone is concerned about the contracts of MBibby, Zaza and MWilliams, remember who insisted on them being resigned(MWoodson).”

Full disclosure before I respond — I had no problem with the deals those three players signed in the summer of 2009, but that was based on the idea that all three players would maintain or improve their production at the time. The fact of the matter is all three have gotten significantly worse, which makes each one of them wildly overpaid right now. I think it is fair to hold Sund responsible for these decisions, seeing as how he is the guy getting paid the big bucks to make them.

That said, let’s say for the sake of argument that it is solely Woody’s fault those three were re-signed. (I don’t entirely agree with this; Sund is higher on the chain of command than Woody and had no prior ties to Woody, so there’s no reason he couldn’t have overridden Woody and brought in better players with that money.) Even if Sund’s hands were tied and he had to re-sign them, nobody forced him to give them the money and years that he did. There’s no reason he couldn’t have taken the same approach with Marvin that he did with Smoove — wait for someone else to make him an offer and match. There’s no reason he had to give Bibby a 3rd year when Andre Miller took a two-year deal. There weren’t any other serious suitors for Zaza at the time he re-upped; there was no reason the Hawks had to offer him a four-year deal off the bat.

A creative GM would have found a way to either re-sign these players for significantly less money or replace them with players who are getting paid comparable money right now. Instead, the risk-averse style of the Hawks’ management led them to overpay their own mediocre players. The Hawks repeatedly demonstrate that they are satisfied with simply being good instead of trying to be great.

• Link
• Report this comment

A Ring of Truth!

re: Najeh

Well, man … You done done-it again. Spitting that ill grammar that’s
leaving the ball park like a Grand-Slam!

Not, only do I feel the reality and passion and heat (heat – check Dominique!)
of your words, but there is an element of sound truthfulness.

Possibilities versus Likelihood is reality!

• Link
• Report this comment

Najeh,

It is “possible” and “likely” that you have won “The Truth” award for today. The recipient of this most esteem and honorable award has demonstrated telling “The Whole” Truth (not half) and nothin but

Congratulation!

• Link
• Report this comment

Just in case you all forgot. Wish he would teach Marvin how to go to the hole strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJhMNPuiwyI&feature=player_embedded

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken . . people could’ve easily told you that last season, when the Hawks were still a top 3 team in the East, yet, you were complaining about Bibby and Woody every chance you got.

It cuts both ways man. We were the same 53 win team that you are praising now . . but had a major problem with all throughout last year. You were one of the main guys on this blog that was always framing the Hawks 2nd half of the season in the most negative light,along with Jell Schultz. I was the one trying to frame it positive all the time, citing that the Hawks were nowhere near as bad as people were making them out to be.

Funny how the roles have changed You’re “Mr. Optimist” now, simply based off of the coaching change being enough to satisfy you . . . and I’m “Mr. Pessimist”, because this front office and ownership did nothing to address our roster issues, and could’ve added pieces to make us a legit NBA contender.

I’m more disappointed in the front office, than I am in the actual makeup of the team. The team will be fine. But this front office is garbage.

• Link
• Report this comment

Najeh

I agree, it doesn’t appear the Hawks set the table to be active in this season’s FA, beyond the resigning of Mr. Johnson.

• Link
• Report this comment

JC2 was a PG at IU – SG @ Xavier

We signed vet minimum FA’s because you have to have 13 guys on your roster per NBA rules –

The sad fact is we could have had Barnes and Shaq for less than 2m per year each – maybe we think Mo’ is better? Mo’ is certainly making more money – and I like Mo’ so don’t get me wrong, based more on 08-09 than last year.

The only way we could have come out cheaper this off season after re-signing JJ – and the 894,000.00 per year or so on our 1st 2 of the last 3 remaining Free Agent signings (after the League rebate) would be to sign late 2nd round picks for about $475,000.00 or D-Leaguer types for the NBA min. of $450,000.00.

So technically it is correct maybe that Sund is spending a portion of that 3m from draft day on vets – we could have signed Alade Aminu, Richard Dixon, and Trey Gilder let’s say for about 1.3m less than 3 vet minimum contracts on those last 3 spots.

But I have decided to take Rev in Tampa’s position – I don’t want to misrepresent you, so forgive me in advance if I do – that Maybe Sund is going to use the 3m on a trade between now and the trade deadline. Sund, as I like to say, is a vulture.

• Link
• Report this comment

2 other things:

- ZaZa’s stats from last year – Joe Smith had equal stats basically if you morph his 9.3mpg up to ZaZa’s 14 mpg – ugh.

- ZaZa’s best stat (besides his hard fouls and athleticism for a guy his size), He was the 10th best Offensive rebounder in the league in that stat per minute.

- Next – we’re fine on the cap next year, depending on how the CBA goes.

If Horford get’s the 13.3m for next year – we have 56+m committed to payroll for next year. We would have about 14m to fill 5 roster spots – Jamal, Mo’, Josh, Jason, and player #13

This is all assuming no trade are forthcoming, we don’t re-sign Jamal etc. (P.S. I’m not against re-signing Jamal – we just need to look long and hard at it – he’ll be 31 at the end of this season. Guys with his skill set tend to decline pretty dramatically after that).

I’m comfortable heading into this off season with 14m to spend on 5 roster spots.

You can use your MLE of 5.8m (I know the numbers fluctuate – this is all things being equal – the Luxury tax may be different or not even exist next year etc.).

2 year vet min. – 4.3m for 2 years

Then sign 3 vet min. guys and still be 3.6+mill. under the luxury tax if you wanted to trade or something.

P.S. Jamal wants to be here – I wouldn’t be opposed as a fan giving him some, or maybe even all of that MLE, depending on how he performs this year.

I just think that NJ, NY may have major dollars to spend, and may overpay for an aging Jamal – like 3 year 30m guranteed or something.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Najeh Davenpoop

cosign the 6:32pm post

ASG is satisfied with the CORE group.

Signing JJ was a necessity, but it put a strangle hold on the franchise. Along with the Sund signing of Marvin, ZaZa, & Bibby.

How can they think waiting til training camp, up to the trading deadline, to see what we got, before making any changes to upgrade this team.

They have had a minimum of 4 years to KNOW what they got, clearly they believe in the CORE….we as fans know exactly what we got and that some upgrade in talent to aid the CORE is needed.

ASG’s whole strategy is dependent upon a coaching change and staying under the luxury tax. LD unique system want change the internal makeup of our CORE players…raise aggressiveness, increase basketball IQ, make us taller, quicker, change internal personality, make skill sets better…many of us know the short comings regarding this CORE’s makeup.

Does LD approach make us a better ROAD team? This is the area the team must improve in while not losing any ground at home. I suspect LD’s approach has to be better than Woodson’s offensive approach…at least ASG thinks so.

Our CORE won 53 games last year; but, it seems the ASG is not comprehending that this CORE group is not facing the same Celtics,Bucks,Knicks,Bulls,Heat,Bobcats teams; they all have made significant upgrades. Outside of Cleveland getting worse,Orlando stood pat with their CORE, but as we know they kicked our CORE’s rearend.

I don’t believe the addition of Powell & Collins has inspired the fan base; unlike the other Eastern Conference teams who have significantly improved their team talent level, while providing that ray of hope this off season to their fans!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

u know there are still good free agents like allen iverson, jerry stackhouse, josh boone, etc. these guys are cheap and good. u already know allen can beat out all the point guards we have. jerry can beat out marvin, heck i can even beat out marvin. and josh boone will give us REBOUNDS off the bench. he will be our back up center. we arent going to be the number one seed but we would have defenently secured the 3rd or 4th seed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Actually I have just read that the Grizzlies signed Acie Law

• Link
• Report this comment

@ Najeh D…

Your latter point made the most sense and has always tempered my expectations regarding the Hawks. You’ve got to have a partner who is willing to even contemplate dancing with you (probable unrestricted free agents). Unfortunately, the Hawks have become like a man with bad credit. No matter how good of job he may have, there will always be the matter of a “perception problem.” The ASG and subsequently the Hawks and especially the Thrashers try as they might are swimming against a rip current in a way…

@ Michael Cunningham…
I certainly understand why you took that position. I saw the meltdown just like most bloggers. Not a matter where I’m trying to take a contrary position at all. I just think there are more dangerous elements blogging most of the time. But he went there, you know what they say about making one’s bed. Do it care and forethought (making one’s bed), then you can blame no one for how you sleep or not…

• Link
• Report this comment

It’s not as if ASG, Sund, or even LD are
*satisfied with the core. They *like the core.
That does not translate to satisfaction. When
ASG / Sund changed coaches, they also were
changing the culture. The “core” remains
the same in personnel, but, in fact there will
be change. That’s what ASG, Sund, Ken Stickland,
and myself among others are banking on.
Do I think that is enough? No.
But midlin’ players (FA’s) & 13th men on rosters
will mean significantly less than LD’s new approach.
Some folks have said;
“LD is certainly saying all the right things”
-&-
“It’s nice to have a coach who, when quoted,
seems to have common sense” [paraphrase].
I agree, LD seemingly has a handle on what it
takes to win in the NBA. Plus, he has paid his
dues. (22 years)
Once again, all who say we need roster up-grades,
you are spot on. Can Sund make them materialize
overnight? That’s obvious.
(if not, the answer is…..No)
I continue to think patience will be rewarded
by way of a trade. I feel as if one more solid
roster tweak is in store. Later or sooner?
Either way, the season approaches, slowly.

• Link
• Report this comment

I just looked at the Suns schedule for next year. I can see them starting off 3-14 in the months of October and November. They could possibly decide that Nash deserves to play on a playoff team. They probably would not want to trade him to a team in the West. So, maybe we could pick him up. They could get some youth and a 1st rd pick and we could get a MVP caliber PG.

Suns get: Marvin Williams, Zaza, Jeff Teague and our 1st rd pick
Hawks get: Steve Nash and Robin Lopez

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29yvmh8

Truthfully, there are very trades that will come available during season that will be any better than what we could do now. So, those counting on something around trade deadline are misguided

• Link
• Report this comment

I still think the best value for the 13th spot would be Erick Dampier…Charlotte will have to cut him to get below the luxury tax threshold, or they will trade him to a team that will definitely cut him…Charlotte has expressed a desire to re-sign him once cut, but they spent a good portion of their MLE on Shaun Livingston ($3.5M I think)…I don’t know many teams out there that need Damp AND can offer him $2.5M or more in salary…He just turned 35, and is very consistent as a defender, rebounder…Any salary below what ZaZa makes ($4M) is a solid deal and the ASG should not worry about the luxury tax to take advantage of such a deal…I’d even go as far as to say lock him up for 2 years at that rate…Luxury tax is calculated at the end of the year, you can always make a trade to get under later in the year…Even Sund has to see the value of having two backup centers the quality of ZaZa & Dampier, making considerably less than the MLE…Posts a higher but similar rebound rate per 40 to Shaq, less points but shoots a higher %, and is 3 years younger.

• Link
• Report this comment

If he had any concerns about Teague or Bibby’s ability to run his OFF, he’d certainly have more 2 PG’s on the active roster. I think it’s just his way of impressing upon his players, especially Bibby and Teague, that the old culture of entitlement for some and deprivation for others is a thing of the past.

We do have more than 2 PGs. Jamahl and JJ can play PG and im sure will again at some point this year so why go out and get another one.

Ken, the way you’ve been commenting lately it looked like you are pretty much the one that “penciled” Teague in as a starter. It is refreshing to know that LD said somebody has to “take” a position away from the starter. Not in summer league either but in practice. Again, what player has proven that Woody deprived him of anything? Acie, Salim, who?

• Link
• Report this comment

nice comments najeh. you know, i could find 10 million dollars today sitting under a tree. since there is little likelihood of that happening i will stay there for a shorter time and expect to go into work tomorrow. josh smith could be a 30, 15, 5 and 5 guy next year, likelihood, next to zero.

could vs likely …. simple probability math exercise.

• Link
• Report this comment

Grandad . . . your boy Acjinca(sp) is playing the USA team on ESPN right now. Biggest guy on the floor and has held his own vs Tyson Chandler.

• Link
• Report this comment

I didn’t reailize the Mavs have both French National centers on their team? Ajinca comes off the bench, though he’s 2-3 inches shorter than alexis and 2 years younger? Mavs have 4 centers. Can’t we get one for something?

• Link
• Report this comment

i was just doing this for fun…. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23vlhqm

• Link
• Report this comment

@Fundamentals it would have definently made our team better

• Link
• Report this comment

Drmaryb – your 7:32 am post – hilarious!

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW

I know, it is hilarious … When the FA period is over – ASG does nothing and people still proposing trades like this one:

“Suns get: Marvin Williams, Zaza, Jeff Teague and our 1st rd pick
Hawks get: Steve Nash and Robin Lopez”

You have to laugh – When everybody knows the ASG – Like their Core!
Don’t wanna mess with ALL that team CHEMISTRY – hugh?

ROF & LOL & Yawn ………..

• Link
• Report this comment

SAM

He will be OK, he just need some time with the starters to develop and gel with the team chemistry. He needs to learn where his guys like the ball and the types of passes they can handle. Any decent PG has to learn his team mates.

See: Billups, Rondo, Dragic, Collinson, (et.al.)
So, calm down … Everything is gonna’ be – ight!

• Link
• Report this comment

Teague = Acie Law

Jordan Crawford = Chauncey Billups

JC2 is just too explosive and athletic to ride the pine. If Drew is willing to take a chance with Teague running point. Why can’t Crawford get his shot. I’m just saying JC2 has more of an upside as a starter than Teague.

• Link
• Report this comment

Samuel,

Do you deny that Diaw has been better since he left the Hawks?

Daniel,

Are you still going to DEMAND better of Drew, LOL?

And tell us again what leverage you have for that DEMAND?

“So Teague isn’t just given the starters job (yawn). This is only news because I thought one of the reasons that LD was hired because he was going to utilize the secret Rondo that we have on the bench that Woody ignored. That is the way it was sold to us anyway. Right?”

Tell me exactly where you found THAT info. Never saw any story on that, but perhaps I missed it. Sounds more like something out of your head. Hyperbole alert!

But if it’s from the same head that thinks he can DEMAND a better quote from a head coach, then I’m not surprised.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel,

Sund replaced Woody because the team needed a new voice. It was the co-owner who said they believe Teague and Collins were under utilized.

As for Woody begging for better players, lets not forget that Woody was one of the guys who wanted Bibby, ZaZa and Marvin resigned. how is that working out for the Hawks?

However, I agree with you in that the ASG is blaming everything on Woody. But they still should have given Drew more options than just bringing everybody back.

• Link
• Report this comment

NBA.com Hawks Top 10 plays of the 2009-10 season..

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2010/06/21/200910_atl_top10.nba/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

• Link
• Report this comment

MC I am alittle confused to the fact of LD saying He will start the same 5 from last year and teague has got to earn it. This sounds like woody talking, maybe I am reading it different than everybody else but he said that someone “clearly” got to be better for a change to take place in the starting lineup. This is what woody would have said. That doesnt seem like much of a chance. At somepoint he is just going to have to roll with teague in the starting lineup like rondo did and see what happens. Or teague maybe just another ac law. If LD cant see that teague is better than bibby or better for the team starting now than Im not sure he will ever see it with teague on the bench. Im hoping there is a hidden motive behind this but I didnt see it off of what LD said

• Link
• Report this comment

Thanks Melvin,

Wow, TWO top tens by the much maligned Zaza. And both for behind the back passes.

I would have voted Josh’s last second slam first just because of the circumstances, but JC1’s shot was also amazing.

• Link
• Report this comment

Who cares. The Hawks arent going to make any difference in the East.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’ve read in several places that nobody knows what type of defense the Hawks will run. But I distinctly remember Drew speaking of players taking personal responsibility on def and have heard several people say that Connor is very well respected as a defensive strategist. Do we know specifically what type of defense the Hawks will employ?

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev . .. here’s a question. If we decide to play people straight up defense, who will be our good defenders, and who may look even worse?

• Link
• Report this comment

No, we don’t know if Teague is going to be a good or great defender, because he has yet to test his defensive skills against starting caliber players. People seem to just be assuming that because he has great physical gifts of quickness and athleticism that he will automatically be an amazing defender, but there’s more to it than that. Considering he has very little NBA experience, there may not be a huge improvement in terms of defense when going with Teague over Bibby. Sure, he’ll be able to keep up with the younger guards, but how will he do against experienced vets who try to lure him into all the old tricks like pump fakes? That all remains to be seen.

• Link
• Report this comment

JJ will be able to do anything asked of him defensively. Marvin, defensively, fits this team real well. His height & athleticism will allow him to continue to thrive even in a straight-up defense. My impression is that Marvin shows more heart consistently on defense than offense. This willingness to emphasize defense makes him more important to this team than many are willing to accept.

• Link
• Report this comment

I just have to accept the concensus opinion that Jamaal is a liability defensively. I haven’t seen it, but all I can remember is what he’s done offensively. He is one of my favorite players. His demeanor on and off the court suggests that he will do whatever is asked of him to win – including playing straight-up defense. But absolutely no one has come to his defense when his defense is maligned on this blog. So maybe his defense is as bad as people suggest. The Hawks need to improve more on defense than offense so if Jamaal’s defense is a liability, then Jamaal is a liability – yet very marketable for a trade.

• Link
• Report this comment

Jamal is not a good defender — he may be the 2nd worst defender on the Hawks — but he’s not the turnstile Bibby is.

• Link
• Report this comment

I believe that in addition to Teague having to earn a spot, Bibby should have to earn a spot. Is Bibby is shape, will Bibby attempt to play defense? Will Bibby do more than hand off and spot up?

• Link
• Report this comment

Sautee- what’s up! First, Gearon went on and on in print and on the radio about how “disappointed” he was with Woodson that Teague didn’t get more playing time and intimated that hiring Drew was partly due to his ability to get more out of the rookie. It was all over the place.

My leverage? Well, the only thing I have the loyalty of a long time Hawks fan. C’mon Sautee you know that I have always been a positive fan, downright homerish, but I just can’t buy into this crap that they are selling anymore. When our team went out like they did in the playoffs and the only move that was made was to fire the head coach, blame him for all short comings, and then hire his assistant on the cheap and expect me to buy that it is the best “basketball move”. Give me a break.

I certainly have never demanded better quotes, but I sure can demand accountability in my season ticket renewal.

• Link
• Report this comment

A lot of interesting opinions here’s mine.

To get to the pros a kid has to impress with his skills. College gives them a chance to do this and also (if smart) to grow into a man. Some never get this last part.

JT was lucky enough to get drafted by a team that did not need to force him onto the court. He had a chance to get used to the pace of the game and the LENGTH of the season.
He had a few true professionals to watch and learn from. Let’s hope he did.

The next part is a lot harder. Taking a veterans job from him. Unless you are one of the very few who just have IT this is where skills alone will fail you.
You have to have heart and desire. You have to really want this and have a need to prove you belong with the big dogs. Thinking you do is not enough you have to show it.
The Hawks are lucky to have some veterans that understand this and know the off season is where you push yourself to improve on the parts of you game that are weakest. This is where you show what kind of a pro you want to be. Hard work here pays of during the season.
As said above I hope JT was paying attention.

• Link
• Report this comment

REV IN TAMPA-JSmith battled for the shot blocking title annually before Woodson decided to switch to the switching DEF. Although it was employed with the idea of hiding the DEF weaknesses of Bibby and JaCrawford, it actually put a tremendous amount of added pressure and responsibility on everyone else.

As a result, our team DEF suffered, as well as the overall DEF of certain individual players, like JJ, Josh, Zaza and Horford. To be honest, instead of hiding the DEF liabilities of certain players, switching everything actually opened us up to exploitation in other ways that were far more detrimental.

NORTHCYDE-you used the comments I made about MBibby and MWoodson last yr to try and make a point. Well, try comparing APPLES with ORANGES.

1-Both MBibby and MWoodson were under contract with the Hawks.
2-MWoodson could have benched Bibby, and/or held him accountable for his poor overall production and play at any time during the season.
3-Sund and/or the ASG could have fired Woodson at any time during the season, or at least impressed upon him the need to make better decisions. So my complaints about them were more than just wishful thinking, since both issues could have been addressed, one way or the other.

NAJEH-Neither Sund or the ASG has the ability to force Shaq, MBarnes, or any other FA, to agree to sign with us. Anyone that thinks Shaq was interested in money wasn’t paying attention. He wasn’t going to sign with us unless he had absolutely no other possible option. Money was never his motivation. He wanted a chance to start, and then the chance to win a title more than the $8M he claimed to be demanding.

He would have signed with the Spurs, Mavericks and Celtics for the minimum, because he felt those teams gave him the best chance to start. Even with his ego, he knew he wouldn’t have the slightest chance of starting ahead of All Starter center AHorford, barring injury of course. So, all of the whining about us not signing Shaq was nothing more than an effort in futility. THE ATLANTA HAWKS COULDN’T AND WOULDN’T OFFER HIM WHAT HE WANTED ABOVE AND BEYOND MONEY, AND THAT WAS A CHANCE TO START AND HIS BEST CHANCE TO WIN A TITLE, PERIOD.

You made a very good point regarding the terms POSSIBLY and LIKELY. Well, allow me to introduce another term into the mix, and it’s called CERTAINTY. As long as their was a team willing to sign Shaq, and offer him a chance to start, it was a CERTAINTY he wasn’t going to sign with the Hawks. None of us knows what MBarnes priorities were, or if he’d choose playing for the Hawks at any reasonable price, over playing close to home with the 2 time defending NBA Champion Lakers.

And as far as Chills is concerned, the Hawks had a standing offer on the table, which is how we retained his rights. How hard is it to figure our that he simply didn’t want to play for the Hawks, otherwise he could have accepted that offer, or at least a one yr qualifying offer?

For those who find joy, or some kind of satisfaction, in worrying about what we don’t have, or shoulda, coulda, woulda had, more power to you. As most everyone knows, I was a big advocate of resigning Chills, but when he was traded, I let it go. Why, because it was a CERTAINTY he wasn’t going to play for the Hawks, and the same is true for Shaq, MBarnes, and most of the FA’s that have now signed with other teams.

• Link
• Report this comment

Teague’s Defense

His defensive effectiveness isn’t just about his defense, but also his offensive threat. He has the ability penetrate forces his defender to work harder early in the game to stay infront of him….causing his defender to be more tired and less effective late in the game.(Tired Legs). During the Boston and Orlando series Jameer Nelson’s jumper was less effective late in the game, because he had to work so hard to keep Rondo out of the paint….Bibby does not offer that threat.

If Bibby is allowed to run-off a ton of screens in this offense like Ray Allen because he is just a shooter, he will be more effective and maybe worth the 6mil….I think that is why LD like Bibby.

• Link
• Report this comment

The real problem here is that the hawks have Horrible player development personnel. Evident by the fact that almost every draft pick we have had (outside of Al and Josh Smith) has never seemed to perform anywhere near their potential even when compared to moderate expectation. Acie Law never had a chance with Mike Woodson the same way Jeff Teague never had a chance as well. Mike Woodson was afraid for his job (as he should have been) and figured it was safer to go with an aging and immobile Bibby than an obviously talented younger player who is bound to make mistakes. Larry Drew is nothing more than a Woodson product who is gonna ruin another talented point guard the way Woodson ruined Law and attempted to ruin Teague!

• Link
• Report this comment

So Ken . . . you’re telling me that if we had re-signed Woody to a 3-year deal, that you would be cool with that? That you would just be like . . . “OK . . the decision is done. Woody is our coach for 3 more years. Let’s rally around him.”

I seriously doubt that you, and many others around here, would be happy campers. Had the ASG brought the entire team back, plus Woody, all hell would’ve been breaking loose around here.

• Link
• Report this comment

Give Jeff Teague the Keys to the team, let him work out the kinks and bad decisions early while we have time to recover. If he makes it clear that he cant handle the job by being LESS effective than Bibby then bench him and we cand declare him ANOTHER BOTCHED 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK. But if he does pick it up and show the potential most people see then he can use the experience gained early in season as a foundation for better play during our first round playoff loss to whoever is in top four of the East.

• Link
• Report this comment

Your kidding about the 10 minutes per game in 39 games and 20 minutes per game in 19 games. How you can attempt to make the argument that suggests that those numbers are enough for a rookie player to make an impact are a damning indication that there is a problem in what you expect from rookie players.

A rookie point guard needs consistent minutes and opportunity to realize their potential. This team brought in Mike Bibby the same year that they drafted Acie Law. Did you know that??

Thats surely how you build on a players confidence, draft him then draft for an experience and over priced guard to take your spot after a handful of games. Woodson couldnt wait to start someone who would make less mistakes because his job security wouldnt allow it and he knew he didnt have the time to let Acie develop properly.

Same situation that was evident last year where you would be hard pressed to say that Teague wouldnt have been an upgrade over Bibby.

• Link
• Report this comment

*draft him then trade*

• Link
• Report this comment

Sekou looks old in his picture.

• Link
• Report this comment

northcyde,

I was a big fan of Acie. But to me, his biggest problem was injuries. Whenever he started to play well, he got injured. And when he got healthy, he just wasn’t the same player.

And when you add that his role in Woody’s offense down the stretch was to cross half-court, give the ball to Flip, and go stand in the corner, it just wasn’t happening for him here. Maybe he can turn it around in Memphis.

The Hawks need to start out strong, because that will help the players continue to buy in to Drew’s system. Imagine if the Hawks start out 5-8? Drew might have a hard time convincing them to stick with the motion offense.

Even if Teague does not beat Bibby for the starting job, he still has to show that he is ready for a consistent 20 mpg, even if it is coming off the bench.

• Link
• Report this comment

GeeMack- Didn’t you get the memo all of those issues have been addressed by the hiring of Larry “Hey, at least I’m not Woody” Drew?

Oh also, he made this video to promote a Princeton style motion offense, and he is not just giving players a job, blah, blah..

You mean the Hawks haven’t addressed your concerns?

• Link
• Report this comment

Hawksgoingbackward

I agree completely with you about AC Law. Woodson was coaching for his Job and that was AC down fall, not his play. He got the same treatment Teague got and we saw how awful Bibby was last year.

Woodson should not be given the benefit of the doubt, how do you develop a PG when you don’t have a defined offense for him to RUN.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby will and can retain the job as much as a Fisher or Kidd can because he brings vet experience and the core believes in him.
Someone earlier said JT was Acie and both of their coming out SL performances were very similar.
The ASG likes LD so much, he gets 2 years to prove himself.
Not a ringing endorsement.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby is not on a team with as much luxury to fall back on like the Lakers or even Dallas. To top that off, his shot is not as clutch as Fisher’s when the game is on the line, and he’s definitely not the passer that Kidd is.

Bibby’s experience and streaky jump shooting would be acceptable only in limited minutes off the bench.

I know the Hawks can do better than this!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Now I know what if feels like to be an Oakland Raiders fan or a Los Angeles Clippers fan.

Overpaying declining players. Never making the obviously smart move because your constantly out-thinking yourself trying to look clever.

Why do I love this team so much???

• Link
• Report this comment

Acie Law 2007 – 08 Game Log

But poor Acie just didn’t get a chance to prove himself.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ hawksgoingbackwards . . . We need to get off to a good start, because our schedule is easier in November than in any other month.

From Dec. 4th through Feb. 28th, we play 40 games

- 15 at home
- 25 on the road

Anybody who knows anything about how this team plays on the road, knows to be kind of weary of those stretch of games. If the Hawks are struggling on the road ( like they normally do ), they better be lights out at home during these stretch of games.

And even when we DO get a lot of home games to close the year ( 14 of the last 21 are at home ), these are some of the teams we have to play in that stretch:

- Chicago ( twice )
- Oklahoma City
- LA Lakers
- Portland
- Denver
- Miami ( twice )
- Orlando
- Boston
- San Antonio

Now the Hawks can beat anybody at home, so I’m not overly concerned about those games. But those home games will not be cakewalks. Hopefully, the result will be similar to what we achieved last March, when the Hawks beat a lot of good teams at home.

But with the ease of our schedule in November, the Hawks don’t need to be stumbling out of the gate vs some of those mediocre to bad teams. In those first 20 games before we play @ Miami on Dec. 4th, the Hawks have a legit shot to at least have a 15 – 5 record going into that game.

What we don’t want to be, is 10 – 10 or 11 – 9, going into that game ( which will be the beginning of the 25 road game stretch of games until the end of February ).

Drew isn’t stupid. He’ll give Teague a chance, but he’s NOT going to let him be the reason why he lost a game. If he’s not making an impact on the game, he’s not going to play a lot.

• Link
• Report this comment

@northcyde, your reference Acie Law strengthens my point about a rookie guard needing opportunities and guidance to succeed. In comparison on your same website check the average minutes for Chris Paul and Deron Williams, they are almost more than double the minutes of Acie Law. Where is the opportunity to succeed when you are expected to run a team but your given half of the opportunity as another gaurd drafted into a similar situation.

I am in noway saying that given equal minutes Acie Law would be equal to or better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams but I am saying that if you SCOUT, EVALUATE, INTERVIEW AND CONSEQUENTLY DRAFT a player to be your starting point guard, give the man ample opportunity to prove why you went through all that trouble otherwise you look like the Atlanta Hawks do, seemingly using draft picks as “enny-menny-minny-mo” or dart board practice.

• Link
• Report this comment

@northcyde, make no mistake about it, Jeff Teague will lose us some games-Point blank period. Considering my love for this team, I would rather him lose us games early in the season where he can learn from his miscues and correct them for the latter part of the season (and playoffs) that you speak of.

There is no magic wand you or LD can wave and make JT without fault we just have to give him the keys to the car and trust him to figure it out. Much like what Doc Rivers did with Rajon Rondo who was taking over an IMMENSELY BETTER team for a coach who also had his job on the line as Rivers had the “Title or Bust” expectations considering the team that was developed.

Rajon Rondo looked foolish at times in the beginning of the season but Doc stuck with him regardless of people around Boston and all over sports media clamoring for them to bring in a veteran point guard (Mike Bibby type) but he TRUSTED the guy that THEY SCOUTED AND TRADED FOR to come around. And he was the key piece to them winning that Title.

• Link
• Report this comment

THE ATLANTA ( BIRDS ) hawks SHOULD HAVE WENT TO KROGER AND GOT 10 FOR 10 DRAFT PICKS, AND TO THE DOLLAR TREE FOR A COACH AND GM. PS, THAT’S 10 MILLION FOR EACH PLAYER.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rondo showed flashes of promise when he played in his rookie season.Teague haven’t been impressive by no means. Overall Time will tell. If Teague can’t show early in camp that he deserves the position he just don’t deserve it. And L.D. used Teague in a demonstration of his offense to get the head coaching job. If he can’t prove himself to a coach that believes in him, you don’t got much of a player. Teague don’t disappoint L.D. is counting on you…man. Its time to stop looking like a Rook and acting like a Rook. Man-up and the keys are yours.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Hawksgoingbackward – “we just have to give him the keys to the car and trust him to figure it out”

You must not have teenage daughters! I’ve got three. The oldest is seventeen.

Northcyde made a great point in his examination of the Hawks schedule. The Hawks have to win early in the season to win as much playoff homecourt advantage as they can. They cannot afford to coast (or treat the regular season as a preseason for Teague) because this Hawks team wins at home. And they particularly stink on the road in the playoffs.

Of course the Negative Nellys will tell me that the Heat & Magic have already won the first two spots and the other divisional winners get the remaining spots. So the Hawks are assured only a 5 spot – even before training camp begins…

I am going from memory, but 3/4 of the way through the season the Hawks were only one game behind Orlando. Atlanta hit a rough spot when Orlando surged. Atl finished six games behind Orlando last season.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel,

about this: “The motion offense is a smoke screen, because (for just one example) right after the Shaq signing (which behind the scenes Drew was begging the Hawks to pursue) instead of answering those questions directly we got redirected to how we didn’t need Shaq, too slow for our new “offense”, too expensive, blah, blah, blah…”

Daniel, redirected by WHOM? I only saw other bloggers saying this. Who from the organization said these things that you claim, and where and when?

• Link
• Report this comment

Rondo,

about this: “Rondo showed flashes of promise when he played in his rookie season.Teague haven’t been impressive by no means.”

While I;m not arguing that Rondo showed promise in his rookie year, he ALSO got 23.5 min per game to do so compared with 10.1 min for Teague. Could Teague have shown more with 23.5 minutes? Well, that’s what we NEEDED to see to evaluate him. But that didn’t happen. And we’ve discussed why ’til we’re blue in the face, but it didn’t happen. So now we are where we are.

But I’d venture a guess that IF Teague had gotten 23.5 minutes, at least we’d know now what he is or is not capable of.

• Link
• Report this comment

Maybe I’m nit-picking, but I keep seeing people say that the Hawks won’t be top 3 because they won’t win their division. Did anyone watch the playoffs last year????

Division winners DO NOT get a top 3 spot for being division winners.

Ex: The Hawks were 2nd in the Southeast Division and were a 3 seed last year. Boston, a division winner, was a 4 seed.

Please stop projecting the Hawks’ playoff seed based on an erroneous belief. It just makes it seem like you’re not paying attention, and that makes me sad

• Link
• Report this comment

Woody destroyed ac the law confindence i wish the hawks would have develop him.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Everybody conveniently forgets that during a stretch of 7 games in December, Teague got consistent PT, and he produced. If anybody wants to see the stats again, it can be reposted.

I dont think Teague should be handed the starter’s job. Bibby is the incumbent, so Teague has to outplay him, and I am okay with that.

First and foremost, nobody expects Teague to be in the game in the fourth quarter for the last 8 minutes down the stretch of a close game (unless he has earned it).

But there is no reason why he can’t get 20 minutes of game time out of the first 40 minutes (bibby gets 20, Teague gets 20). And then whoever plays the last 8 minutes will depend on matchups, hot hands etc.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby should be a reserve.
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD.
BENCH JAMAL, JC2, MOE, ZAZA, COLLINS.
RESERVE BIBBY, POWEL.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

northcyde,

So what did Acie show you before his first injury?

• Link
• Report this comment

C+ Atlanta Hawks

Scott Cunningham/NBAE via Getty Images
WHAT WENT RIGHT

Welcome back, Joe
Yes, Joe Johnson’s (pictured) six-year, $119 million deal was excessive, but where would the Hawks be without him? All the progress Atlanta had made over the last five seasons would have been flushed had a player of Johnson’s caliber left.

New coach, new attitude
Mike Woodson did a terrific job taking the Hawks from doormats to playoff participants, but their locker room had gotten stale on his watch. Enter Larry Drew, a cheap (his reported $1.3 million salary is the lowest in the league) and familiar (he’s an ex-Woodson assistant) alternative who plans to run a more balanced offense that will emphasize the low-post play of undersized center Al Horford and forward Josh Smith.

WHAT WENT WRONG

No true center
Dwight Howard continues to stand as a big roadblock in the Hawks’ quest for playoff success. After a brief flirtation with Shaquille O’Neal, the Hawks elected to re-sign Jason Collins, leaving them once again without a proven pivot to battle Howard in the paint.

No real point guard
Maybe the speedy Jeff Teague is the answer. He’s going to have to be, because Mike Bibby’s defensive decline will force Teague into a bigger role. A solid summer league (15.6 points, 4.8 assists) is a positive sign, but it’s still unknown whether Teague can handle the likes of Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Jameer Nelson, John Wall, Brandon Jennings and Devin Harris on a nightly basis.

BOTTOM LINE

After five years of regular-season improvement, the Hawks need to finally have a strong playoff run. Unfortunately, they may not have the talent to do it this season.

.com/2010/writers/chris_mannix/08/16/offseason.grades.southeast/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0woIPSWXF

• Link
• Report this comment

“Rondo showed flashes of promise when he played in his rookie season.Teague haven’t been impressive by no means.”

24 and 15 in the final game of the season isn’t a “flash of promise”?

• Link
• Report this comment

Carmello Anthony wants out of Denver he is selling his house ASG this last chance to do the right thing if you have any guts left. How about Marvin Williams , Bibby , & Jammal Crawford plus a 1st round pick for Anthoney and Billups .

• Link
• Report this comment

Rondo,

As you have said “Time will tell”.

But I’ll still say that Rondo had more of a chance, by the circumstances of the kind of team Boston was before the Garnett / Allen trades (24-58), then Teague had last year. And if Teague had that kind of chance, we likely wouldn’t be having this particular conversation because his playing would be more of a known quantity.

• Link
• Report this comment

I don’t forget that O’Brien. It’s just validates what my main complaint about Teague was last year. And that is Teague usually “balled” when the game was out of reach. But when the game was still “in the balance”, he was a non-impactful player.

The 5 games in December were great for him. He put up great numbers in blowout situations. Other much maligned Hawk players have put up good numbers too, when getting more than 20 minutes a game, or getting extended minutes in blowout situations ( Salim and Shelden )

The problem though, was that guys like Salim, Shelden, and Acie could rarely give us quality minutes off the bench in shorter stints.
The average bench player who is NOT a 6th man type, is usually going to play in 5 to 8 minute stretches throughout a game.

Or in other words . . . If Josh Smith is playing 34 minutes a game at PF, there are only 14 minutes a game left for the reserve PF to play. And for most teams, that usually means that the reserve PF may play 7 minutes in each half.

So if you’re Joe Smith last season, and you played a non-impactful 5 minutes in the first half . . why should the coach put you into a close game in the 2nd half, when guys like Horford and Marvin can play a better backup PF than he can?

( note: this is the reason why I’d be shocked if Josh Powell helps us any, other than being a great bench cheerleader )

Then when a reporter asks you . . “Coach . . Joe Smith didn’t have it early on tonight, but you went back to him in the 2nd half, instead of playing Marvin or Al at PF. While he was in the game, the Hawks were -7 in the 2nd half and -12 overall. Why didn’t you play Al or Marvin at the 4?

. . . what would your answer be?

• Link
• Report this comment

And of course, another thing that victimized Acie when he was here was that supposedly he was Billy Knight’s choice and not Woody’s (or at least that’s my recollection). Front office politics played a huge role in that too.

• Link
• Report this comment

Nobody is going to be willing to take on the last 3 years of #2. Those numbers are Rashard Lewis/Gilbert Arenas embarrassing to admit numbers.

Ryan, as much as this town needs another superstar, this group has no creativity or cap limited justification to bring in another guy who might make us better, but doesn’t fix the 1 and 5 slots.
I think we just continue down this path of playoff appearances.

Sad to watch, and as much as I want to be wrong, finishing 3rd is the best we will do in our own division. That doesn’t bode well for playoff slotting.

• Link
• Report this comment

Kevin, sorry but if the Hawks could put together a deal for Melo it’d be great. Joe, Melo, Josh, and Horford would be a handful for anyone (including Miami and Boston) to handle every single night. Ray Allen and Pierce would be canceled out nightly (as we already know that Smoove out plays Garnett everytime). Also Joe and Melo would be quite a matchup against Wade and Lebron. And truly, I’d take Josh over Bosh just because of the things he can do on the defensive end.

• Link
• Report this comment

And to be fair, there were games where Joe Smith played well in the first half, but still got no minutes in the second half.

For example, the Phoenix game, where Woody decided not to use his bench for the entire fourth quarter, even though our starters were being outplayed by Phoenix’ bench.

I dont know if Teague has what it takes to be a starting PG, but IMO, we never got the chance to find out. Part of it falls on Teague, yes. But to me, Woody was a bigger reason why.

• Link
• Report this comment

“Based on these stats that you provided for total games, Rondo exceeded Acie in every category except turn-over and free-throw pct. Though experience has helped Rondo with his TO, his free-throw shooting is still a work in progress. These stats aren’t showing all of Rondo’s intangibles”

I was referring to their first couple of months in the league. Rondo didn’t have all those intangibles on his first day in the league — he was just a timid point guard with no jump shot trying to learn the ropes. Being able to play through his mistakes allowed him to improve from that point, while being benched at the first mistake killed Acie’s development and took away his opportunity to develop.

• Link
• Report this comment

I got a rebuttal for Najeh’s great 6:51 post. He’ll probably disagree with what I’ll post. But it will be more on point as to why Rondo played more, instead of Acie.

• Link
• Report this comment

I do not want in on the Rondo debate.
But a grain of salt, anyway.
Even after the Celts won in 08, they
entertained the possibility of trading Rondo.
He was considered a poor teammate & a
locker-room distraction.
They, the Celts [probably Doc] , decided
to keep him. Young fellers…..sometimes it
takes a while. (some longer than others)
You reckon, they’re glad they did.
“Patience is a virtue”
Same thing ‘here’ with Josh.
Wonder why Wdsn displayed patience with
some & not others?

reference: [may have some merit]
Najeh Davenpoop
7:37 pm
“another thing that victimized Acie when he was here was that supposedly he was Billy Knight’s choice and not Woody’s”

• Link
• Report this comment

But the JJ for ‘Melo deal would be a close one…..On 2nd thought…..I still think I would pull the trigger and do it.

• Link
• Report this comment

O’Brien . . . I mean . . it’s almost too easy to say that the ONLY reason Rondo got significantly more PT than Acie, was because the Celtics were horrible, and the Hawks were bad ( but were fighting to make the playoffs for the first time in 8 years ).

Yet, people believe that Woody had some sort of vendetta against Acie, Salim, and Shelden, when all he was really trying to do, is win games to get us to the playoffs. But you’ll even see people say that Woody was being “selfish”, because he was only trying to win games.

That doesn’t even make sense. He wants to win, and he doesn’t want to play scrub players that lose games. So he doesn’t play them and he WINS. But he’s being selfish?

• Link
• Report this comment

Northcyde – I understand – ‘Melo needs more years added to that contract to make it attractive to him. When we’re talking guaranteed money, total contract amount many times speaks louder than $$’s per year.

And BTW – many of your posts the last couple of days have been amazing – keep up the good work – I enjoy the comments immensely!

• Link
• Report this comment

Either the Hawks will be in Vegas or Seattle the last 3 years of JJ’s contract or:

Don’t you think we’ll go to him and re-structure those last 3 years – he’s due about 69m those last 3 years – what if we gave him 80m for 5 years at that point – he retires with the team – we retire his jersey in the rafters, and give him a $200,000.00 year job doing something with the team.

That way he’s not a 35 year SG bouncing to a new team for probably the vet minimum playing out the string of a pretty good career.

Look at Paul Pierce and the Celts this year with his contract re-structuring – it could happen. And he’s really a pretty good bargain this year – 16th highest paid in the league.

And for what it’s worth, I think that Boozer and Amare’s contracts are worse than JJ’s. I could be wrong, but I don’t see either one of those guys being real healthy the length of their contracts.

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW, thanks for doing the math on the Carmelo trade. It was turning over in the back of my mind.

• Link
• Report this comment

Northcyde,

Well, I like LD’s approach to trying to develop and play Teague starting off his new head coaching gig. You say that Woody did basically what any head coach would do and that’s just to ‘WIN TO KEEP YOUR JOB’. Well, look where that got Woody, JOBLESS!! Yeah, he was here for 6 years, but i’m sure head coaches would rather be in Jerry Sloan’s shoes. He knows how to coach, when to play players and when to take them out, he knows how to have mismatches, etc!! Woodson stayed pact to what he started and that was a 7-8 man rotation which EVERYONE in the NBA WORLD knew, therefore, they knew how to play the Hawks every game, cause the approached NEVERED changed.

Now I also hear your debate on the Acie situation when he comes to Woody, but no matter what u say or how u say it, WOODY DID NOT LIKE ACIE LAW, and that’s factual since u like proof and all thru stats. My proof is better than stats,,WOODY SAID IT OUT OF HIS MOUTH during a game (dont remember the exact game) but it was definely caught on TV. Woody killed Salim’s dream as well. I bet if Salim, Acie, & Teague were drafted to different teams,,I’ll say to Boston, Salim would have been an Eddie House cloan, while Teague would have been an Rondo cloan and Acie being a Chauncey Billips cloan(smoove PG skills). Woody destroyed those players and they never got over it. Now I blame Salim for his disappearing acts in the league. He had no reason to not stay on someone’s team. But Acie was a different story..I believe Najeh made a great point about why Acie never stayed on a team due to the reason why THAT team traded for him in the first place. They never expected to keep him.

• Link
• Report this comment

Northcyde,

Everyone.. man, woman, boy & girl are different. There is no one alike in this world but all have talents/abilities/skills that can be used in life. What works for 1 man may not work for the other. Identical baby twins may have been potty trained the same time and same way but one may have learned it quicker than the other. It’s not to say the other one never learned, it just took some time. Case in point, Rondo vs Acie. I say all this to say, just because Acie Law didnt “BALL” immediately coming into the league like Chris Paul or Darin Williams did does not mean he couldnt have been in “excellent” combo guard later on in the league. For that matter, Joe Johnson wasnt heard of his rookie season being drafted #10, now look at him, a 120+ million $ man!! I do hear what u are saying but based on your comments, they are pure emotions not facts.

There were MANY times Acie had a great game but Woodson decided not to play him. I can recall a similer time when Teague had an excellent game against LA in LA just to not see the court 6 consecutive games…could u explain that? Cause I would have LOVED to ask Woodson this same question!

• Link
• Report this comment

“Yet, people believe that Woody had some sort of vendetta against Acie, Salim, and Shelden, when all he was really trying to do, is win games to get us to the playoffs. But you’ll even see people say that Woody was being “selfish”, because he was only trying to win games.”

First let me say this — I actually don’t agree with what seems to be the majority opinion on here that Salim deserved playing time. Acie and Teague are both legitimate point guards with legitimate point guard skills who had/have the potential to grow enough to run an offense. Salim never showed me anything besides the ability to be a streaky shooter. To me his ceiling was Eddie House. I think he could have been a contributing bench player on a playoff team, but I never saw any of the basic passing and ball-handling skills in him that you would expect from a point guard.

Secondly, I don’t think Woody had a “vendetta” against anyone. I just think he isn’t a very good coach, particularly on offense. Tyronn Lue and Mike Bibby were like security blankets for him — he knew they were experienced and could knock down shots, so he could give them the ball and tell them to get the ball to Joe and make themselves available to knock down jumpers. By doing this he avoided having to draw up actual offensive strategies or invest the time to develop young players, even though this would have been in the better long-term interest of the franchise. When you play veterans and you lose, you can always claim that the players aren’t good enough, but when you play rookies and you lose, you have to defend your player development skills and your decision to play the rookie. This is pretty much how it goes in any sport — ask Mike Shanahan why he doesn’t still coach the Broncos.

(In fairness, Woody to his credit never tried to publicly shift the blame to anyone but himself when things went wrong, which was one of the things I liked about him. As much as he was like Jim Mora in his preference for poorly planned offensive schemes and gimmicky defensive schemes, he was always a stand-up guy who took responsibility, which is more than you can say about Mora.)

The word “vendetta” implies malice, and I think Woody’s actions were motivated more by putting short-term job security over the long-term interest of the team.

• Link
• Report this comment

“So that’s the reason why Rondo got time. It wasn’t because Doc had some sort of epiphany to play Rondo. He played him because the Celtics sucked, and the rest of the PGs playing ahead of Rondo sucked. Luckily for them, Ainge made the trade, and Rondo was able to develop further.”

I don’t dispute any of this — I don’t remember the 2006 Celtics season nearly as well as you do — but the only real assertion you’re making here is that Doc Rivers isn’t a great coach either, and that given the opportunity he may have done to Rondo what Woody did to Acie. Maybe it wasn’t Rivers’ confidence and foresight that made Rondo into a great player, and Rondo was simply the beneficiary of favorable circumstances — that’s definitely possible and I may have given Rivers credit for something he doesn’t deserve. That doesn’t refute any of my main point, which is that Rondo developed into a good player because his minutes steadily increased from day one and he got a chance to play through his mistakes. I don’t think “Doc Rivers would have done it too” is a valid excuse for Woody not taking the time to develop Acie or Teague.

As for the Hawks timeline, what I take away from that is basically that Acie had very untimely injuries his rookie year and that prevented him from maintaining a steady spot in the rotation. OK, fine. What about his 2nd season? Acie topped 20 minutes only FOUR TIMES his entire second season with the Hawks. What is Woody’s excuse for that? It’s not like he didn’t produce — the first game he topped 20 minutes, he went for 20-6-7. For that, he was rewarded by two months of not topping 16 minutes with plenty of DNPs mixed in. Then he finally gets in a game for over 20 minutes again and he goes for 16-3-3. Granted, these were in blowout losses, but all he can do is produce when called upon, right? If Woody won’t play him in situations that mean something, the only way he can show his ability is by taking advantage of the situations that he does get.

I really don’t see what else he should have done. You can’t really make any significant impact when you are playing 10 sporadic minutes here and there, mostly after games have already been decided. The bottom line is it is in the coach’s hands to give a player minutes, and Woody never gave Acie the chance to prove what he could do against real competition. Acie was traded after that season, and none of his subsequent coaches gave him that chance either — but like I said earlier, they had much less invested in him and much less reason to spend time giving him that chance. If Acie had gotten that chance with the Hawks and blown it, I wouldn’t be up at 5 in the morning trying to defend a guy who doesn’t even play for the Hawks anymore.

Also…

“If we got swept, Woody wouldn’t have been brought back. ”

I don’t entirely agree with this. Boston went on to win the title that year. Atlanta wasn’t expected to even come close to the playoffs. Even if the Hawks had got swept, they outperformed expectations. The summer following that series with Boston was when the Hawks decided to part ways with Billy Knight after rejecting Knight’s attempts to fire Woody three times — which if I remember right Billy tried to do before the playoffs came around. The DASG basically had a choice between Billy and Woody and they chose Woody. I have a hard time imagining them taking the exact opposite decision just because the Hawks lost that series in 4 instead of 7.

• Link
• Report this comment

” And I grossly underestimated his situation in Memphis. This is who he may have to go up against to get playing time at PG next year

- Mike Conley
- O.J. Mayo ( if they go ahead with their play to play him at PG some )
- Tony Allen ( whom the Celtics acquired this summer )
- and Grevis Vasquez ( whom they haven’t signed yet, but could be a bigger PG for them . . . he’s 6-6 )

So when it comes to Acie playing more in the NBA, he is going to have to PROVE that he can ball. ”

Mike Conley — lottery pick
OJ Mayo — lottery pick
Greivis Vasquez — first rounder, guaranteed contract
Tony Allen — three year contract
Acie Law — minimum deal, throw-in in a trade

Acie not only has to outplay those guys — he has to straight up DESTROY them if he wants a roster spot. And it has a lot less to do with the quality of the players ahead of him (I don’t think Acie would be ANY worse than Conley if he had received the multiple chances Conley has had so far) than it does with how much they are getting paid.

• Link
• Report this comment

“As for Teague, he’s going to be given his shot to prove that he can ball. None of that garbage time balling either. Ball when the game is still in doubt.”

He first has to play when the game is still in doubt in order to ball when the game is still in doubt. Hopefully he gets that chance this year, because he sure didn’t last year.

• Link
• Report this comment

One more thing — when it comes to rookies, there is a happy medium between LeBron James and Darko Milicic. Just because you don’t want to play your rookie 40 minutes and revolve the offense around him doesn’t mean he has to be a human victory cigar who only sees the floor in garbage time. I don’t think any reasonable person was asking for Acie to start over Bibby in 2008 or for Teague to start over Bibby last year (well, maybe towards the end of the year when rigor mortis started to set in to Bibby’s corpse). All Woody had to do was find a consistent 15-20 minutes, allotted during some regular chunk of every game with more or less the same teammates on the floor, so that the rookie gets some sort of unchanging environment in which he can settle into a role and find a sort of comfort zone. If the rookie plays well in this comfort zone, then his minutes can gradually expand, whereas if the rookie struggles in this comfort zone, his minutes may decrease.

• Link
• Report this comment

Have you read this? Hawks Reach Out To Boykins
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68721/20100817/hawks_reach_out_to_boykins/

• Link
• Report this comment

All I can say is – I hope Bibby is working his tail off this offseason

It would be great if he could finish his very good career in dignity contributing the next 2 years, and not an out of shape player, who we’re trying to trade his expiring contract etc.

And it will make this season so much better for the Hawks

• Link
• Report this comment

Earl Boykins = Poor Man’s Nate Robinson – who I thought would fit well with the Hawks athleticism.

• Link
• Report this comment

We need some info MC if there’s a whole page devoted to why Acie could/couldn’t or can/can’t make it. He got multiple chances all over as did Shelden. Solomon, Royal and Salim sure did light up the league. I guess Boris is the shining star.

Would any of you want any of these players back? I tend to think we had “HIGH” hopes and they just didn’t ever pan out and thus they’re not excelling other places for the same reason, a lack of overall talent.

I’m dreaming about JC2 and Sy. Do they have it? Time will tell. They might be the next Jordan or they might be the next bust. Time will tell, but once again we got “HIGH” hopes!

• Link
• Report this comment

This is funny-

While Hawks fans are dreaming up a way to acquire C. Anthony, the ASG is reaching out to Boykins!

Sometimes we limit ourselves with our own thinking!

• Link
• Report this comment

Najeh Davenpoop

August 16th, 2010
6:32 pm
“Division winners DO NOT get a top 3 spot for being division winners.”

They do, however, get a top 4 spot. For the Hawks to get a top 4 spot, they would have to either win their division or be the best wild-card team, which requires them to have a better regular season record than either Orlando or Miami if not both.

If you assume that Orlando and Miami are better than the Hawks, the highest the Hawks can finish is 5th, even if they have the 3rd best record in the East.

Najeh,

One caveat.

Because the NBA does not re-seed its teams and because home court advantage goes to the team with the better record, not the better seeding, division winners are guaranteed no better than a five seed, as their 4th seeding does not guarantee home court advantage in the first round.

• Link
• Report this comment

We just missed on not getting Al Jefferson. I think he would have filled our huge void and we had something to give up in return. Minnesota wanted nothing.

• Link
• Report this comment

Fundamentals……it is always exciting to see what the new guys like JC2 and Sy can come in and do.
So far, we have seen JC2 out of shape and not ready for any significant minutes. He is guaranteed a roster slot unlike days gone past where you could waive a #1 draft choice and only take a media beating, not a financial beating. Sy is a work in progress….he is old enough to have to produce to be here now. Personally, I don’t think we see Sy as an impact to our team at any time.

Those guys who have been here before……the list is long……Childress, SJones, Acie, Shelden, Lue, Diaw, Mohammed, JT, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, David Andersen….the only ones I would consider are Mohammed and Andersen because they are the best C additions, but still not vet minimums.

• Link
• Report this comment

kevin m in response to your entry that i have reposted from the other blog:

well nire. i am pissed but i see the irony of it, dont know if you will. the team that you admire greatly has just added the piece i suggested from the day after the season ended for us to get to balance our roster a bit even if it meant giving up josh smith, who you have oft ridiculed. true especially when i touted the possible long term outcome of the relationship between al and josh. you also trashed the idea, if i remember, from the get go of al jefferson suggesting there was nothing to offer. funny, the team that got him was one that you admire tremendously, the jazz. though i cant find the details it wasnt for the price of a josh either. i said the minny’s would want to get rid of him early on. again, it so ironic, it is nauseating.

i also suggested to pursue farmar as an adjunct and protection at the position that is next weakest, as well, at point and he went to the nets for a song. only our owners packed it in when miami pulled their coup. sorry, i just dont get it and keep my hands in my pocket to protect my money as they refuse to really go to be in the elite class. can anyone argue with four guys like al j, al h, zaza and josh s as a force? throw in shaq? could anyone not salivate at having a guy like farmar ready to pick up the pieces if jeff teague or “rook vs. jt0″ falls flat? you dont thing there would be a hum like never before heard in the annals of hawks basketball since the days of bob petit when i started this journey as a fan in 1957?

oh woe is me. well at least i can follow my other three favs in the jazz, suns and blazers to see if they can steal it from the big boys miami, boston or the lakers as our owners dont have the balls to do it.

• Link
• Report this comment

Cmon ATL…send some of them young birds to DEN for Melo…Peace…

• Link
• Report this comment

vava74

August 17th, 2010
11:48 am

Co-sign, excellent point sir.

• Link
• Report this comment

This is John Friel’s from the LA times take on the Hawks. He’s doing a 30 team preview of the NBA.

2009-’10 Statistics

Finished 53-29, second in Southeast Division, third in Eastern Conference.

Postseason

First Round: Defeated Milwaukee Bucks 4-3

Second Round: Lost to Orlando Magic 4-0

Additions and Re-Signings

Joe Johnson via re-signing, Josh Powell via free agency, Jason Collins via re-signing, and Jordan Crawford via draft.

Losses

Josh Childress via free agency

It’s difficult to dispute the fact that the Atlanta Hawks have one of the most balanced starting lineup’s in the NBA. All but one of the players average double digits in scoring with Joe Johnson leading the way at 21 points and Mike Bibby taking the rear at nine points per game.

While a balanced team could be deemed as a key for success, the Atlanta Hawks have seen their post season runs come to abrupt ends in the past two seasons with two straight sweeps in the second round with the most disappointing of the sweeps coming last season when they set an NBA record for the largest deficit suffered in a seven game series.

So the question is, how do you get over this hump? How do you advance past the second round for a legitimate shot at a championship run in a difficult Eastern Conference?

Re-signing Joe Johnson to $120 million over six years wasn’t the answer I was looking for, but if that is what General Manager Rick Sund believes then to each his own. Joe has become a very dangerous shooter in this league and has averaged 21 points over the past three seasons and shot 46 percent last season, while hitting 37 percent from beyond the arc.

The postseason was a completely different story though, as we saw a side of Johnson that we aren’t used to seeing. Much like the postseason before, he saw his stats decline and his shooting ice cold. He averaged 18 points on 39 percent while hitting a dismal 22 percent from the three-point line. Not exactly the numbers someone that is making $120 million should put up, but obviously the Hawks have put a lot of faith into Joe and truly believe that he can bring this team to the promise land.

Atlanta’s 53 win season was their best since the 1997-’98 season when they won 56 games. It makes last years regular season even more impressive considering they are only five years removed from finishing 13-69. The Hawks can thank Mike Woodson for their drastic improvement, but can now look to Larry Drew when drawing up plays after the Hawks decided not to attempt to re-sign Woodson.

One achievement the Atlanta Hawks can boast is that they have the reigning Sixth Man of the Year in Jamal Crawford who is going into his second season with the team. Jamal averaged 18 points on 45 percent shooting while leading the team in three-pointers made in his first role off the bench in four years. There is no doubt that the Hawks are comfortable with having Crawford come off the bench and bringing nearly 20 points off the bench every game.

Atlanta can also look to Josh Smith as another threat on this multi-dimensional team as he has not only become a smarter player, but a better shooter as well. Prior to last season, Smith would sometimes rush difficult jump shots and not use his ability and strength to drive the lane. Not only that, but he would take too many jump shots when he isn’t exactly supposed to be the shooter on this team.

To show what a drastic improvement it was when it came to Smith’s decisions to shoot, in the 2008-’09 season he shot 87 three-pointers compared to last season when he only shot seven and averaged over 50 percent shooting for the first time in his six-year career.

At only 24 years old, Smith has learned the game and is coming into his own as a potential All-Star if he can utilize the strength’s that he has rather than trying to become something that he is not. The Hawks can always look to Smith for his defensive ability as well where he is excelled as a shot-blocker averaging over two per game over his career.

The Hawks can also look to a scoring threat in the middle in Al Horford. Currently, the NBA is not deep on centers with any big man having some sort of footwork being valuable to their team. Horford is no different as he averaged a career high 14 points on 55 percent from the field, good for eighth in the league.

With Horford improving season by season over the course of his short career, the Hawks still could be a threat for years to come if they keep their young core together. Horford, Smith, and even the greatly overpaid Marvin Williams could make this team a contender with experience and a true superstar.

Their pick-up’s have not been vast with only two new players joining the team. Josh Powell, being one of the pick-up’s, has five years of experience and has two championship ring’s to show for it with the Los Angeles Lakers as a seldom used back up. Powell has averaged four points and three rebounds over his career as a bench warmer.

Jordan Crawford out of Xavier has shown the potential to become a possible starter in the upcoming year’s after an impressive college career that is mostly remembered by dunking on LeBron James in a pick-up game. Jordan averaged 20 points on 46 percent and hit over two three-pointers per game on 39 percent shooting showing off impressive range and an ability to create his own shot. At 6′4″ though, Crawford could only see himself as a back up to Joe Johnson for the time being.

The Hawks bench could have used more help with Jamal Crawford being the only true scorer. Maurice Evans, Zaza Pachulia, Jeff Teague, and Joe Smith round out the rest of the rotation with toughness, but not much of a scoring threat with Evans leading the way among the four at five points per game. The Hawks need another scorer off the bench aside from Crawford to pick up the slack if Jamal doesn’t show up for the night and they didn’t get it this off season with Josh Powell or Jordan Crawford.

Don’t expect much to change with the Hawks lineup, but expect a better team than last year’s. It might not show in the record if they don’t win more than 53 games, but Atlanta can boast a young team that has won and is hungry for what they have strived the past two years for. The Hawks core continues to flourish with experience and if Joe Johnson can live up to that $120 million deal, then Atlanta just might be able to keep up with the powerhouse’s of the Eastern Conference.

Projected Starting Lineup

PG-Mike Bibby

SG-Joe Johnson

SF-Marvin Williams

PF-Josh Smith

C-Al Horford

2010-’11 Prediction

46-36

• Link
• Report this comment

vava . . . I’ll keep saying it.

“If you can ball . . . you can ball.”

Ty Lawson’s NBA regular season debut came against the Utah Jazz and Deron Williams. Under his leadership on the court in the 2nd quarter of that game, the Nuggets went on separate 14 – 4 and 11 – 4 runs. Lawson would finish the half with 6 pts and 3 assists. He played so well right out of the gate, that Karl let him play 12 minutes in the 1st half.

But the 4th quarter was HIS time. George Karl put him back into the game in the 4th quarter with the Nuggets up 2. The Nuggets would go on a 9 – 0 run to immediately blow the game open.

Lawson scores 7 of those 9 points.

As Bonecrusher would say . . . he was “Never Scared”.

In his NBA debut, Lawson would EARN 26 minutes of playing time, and score 17 points – 6 assists – 4 rebounds – and shoot 7 – 13 from the field. He proved right out the gate that he belonged in this league. He performed at a high level when the game was still in the balance, and helped lead his team to victory.

“If you can ball . . . you can ball”.

Game flow from that game

Article from that game

It is important that I use a non-lottery pick in this example, to show people that when you are a BALLER, it doesn’t matter where you are picked. The only thing that matters, is if you can make an IMPACT on a game or not. If you show that you can make an impact on a game, the coach WILL PLAY YOU.

• Link
• Report this comment

NorthCyde

Great post to show an example of hidden gems overlooked.
If I’m not mistaken Blair has no ACL’s (a congenital anomoly),
meaning from birth.

Hey, you know what they say – You can’t miss what you never had!
Who is that star receiver who is a Pro – Bowler for the Steelers?
He went to UGA. He’s half Asian and half African-American.
(uggh! What’s his name?) He was also born without ACL’s also.

The good thing about not having an ACL is that you can’t tear it, if it’s not there.
Not only that, the other ligaments of the knee, when in a highly trained athlete?
Those ligaments become stronger and more supportive to the knee.
These two athletes would never had known they didn’t have ACL’s had someone not told them and they believed it. The go about their business and play all out.

Again, I don’t know the details of DeJuan Blairs knees, but, regardless, he is one heckuva’ player anyways.

Who is that Steeler wide receiver? He’s a little long in the tooth now, but that man was unstoppable as a speedy receiver.

GeeMack,

Thank You for the informative article from the LA Times writer, I enjoyed it.
How are you doing Gee Mack? Keep those hot and intellectual posts coming sir.

Fundamentals

I know man, I hope the new guys, (Pape & Gladyr) make all your “wet dreams” come true as well! ROF & LOL! I knew you’d get a laugh off of that one!
- Mmmmmmwah! – (a wet kiss!) & a wink.

Fantastic Posts from all you guys! Awesome and varied opinions for sure.
I don’t miss the “Library Man” one ioda’! (If he had some sense he could still be posting from the comforts of his home.)

• Link
• Report this comment

Man….just play bot Crawford’s in the backcourt and you’ll see some improvement! Teague and Bibby can be on the 2nd unit with Marvin Williams!

• Link
• Report this comment