Atlanta Hawks: Inside ‘Camp Drew’

First

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken Strickland & Grandad – Consider yourselves vindicated! What you have been so steadfastly advocating has been described by MC’s post.

• Link
• Report this comment

LD is the man.

Woody couldn’t get this team to even do a proper pick and roll.

• Link
• Report this comment

After hearing this I now understand why the Hawks didn’t waste time with Shaq, but I’m sure a lot of the dumies on the blog won’t smh.

• Link
• Report this comment

The sweetest thing I’ve heard in 6 years as a Hawks fan…

Is it me, but does it sound like we could see JJ, Marvin, Josh, AL and Zaza on the floor at the sametime.

• Link
• Report this comment

I hope it is not in bad form to repost a comment I made back on August 9, but it does seem relavent, even prescient.

“We have the athleticism and talent to throw different looks at teams without changing the personnel. Even our back-ups have these same athletic qualities that give them extra weapons.

Those on this blog that take the negative view on everything will say that the Hawks have a bunch of ‘tweeners’ who are not ‘prototypical’ and, therefore, out of place and ineffective.

Sidenote – Our age, with the explosion of technology and ‘knowledge’, has created the ’specialist’ and the ‘expert’. Nobody sees the need for the ‘generalist’ who can do more than one thing well. I’ve got news for everybody. It is the generalist who can do several things well (not as expertly as the specialist) that run the world. The pin-headed specialists are only able to do one thing well. – Sidenote ended.

When I played basketball in college our point guard was 6′8″. He brought the ball down the court and started the offense. But if we did not score off a set play, and the other team was playing man-defense, then guess where he ended up? Through a series of picks & switches he ended up on the block. He posted up better than I ever could. All I ever played was post. I’ve got board hands and can’t dribble to the other end of the court unguarded, but guess where I ended up while he was posted up on the block. I was at the top of the key.

My point is, when you have a versatile team (as the Hawks have) a player’s position is relative to the other team’s weakness.”

• Link
• Report this comment

L.D. said his emphasis is on exploiting Atlanta’s strengths rather than covering for its weaknesses

Most important thing said above. Gotta love it! this will be the difference between drew and woodson. this was probably something drew noticed that woodson often did that he disliked in past seasons.

MC, do you feel Woodson focused on covering up our weaknesses more than exploiting strengths?(The switching defense, Iso Joe, etc.)

• Link
• Report this comment

Finally some actual, hard evidence of Drew’s new offense, instead of the wild speculation we have seen on the blog since he was hired. Great stuff MC. Looking forward to seeing this in action.

The one thing that occurred to me when I read this, though, was that this would be the PERFECT offense for Josh Childress. I really wish they had found a way to dump Marvin and sign Chills to play SF, or even just sign Chills to complement Marvin at SF.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great Article….Keep it coming…and Bring us up to speed on the rumors about Jamal’s extension talks and why Yahoo’s profile has negative rumblings in their speculation regarding it…

• Link
• Report this comment

“L.D. said his emphasis is on exploiting Atlanta’s strengths rather than covering for its weaknesses”

I interpret this as meaning he won’t be switching on D to hide Bibby. I would also interpret this to mean he won’t play scrubs at center against bigger opponents just to match up size-wise, but his comments about Smoove at SF lead me to believe that’s not the case.

• Link
• Report this comment

I don’t see this working especially considering our bench is full of bums after you get pass Jamal and Bibby or Teague. Even if the new Crawford works out you just have a bench full of guards noone to play the 3. Zaza is a bum 4 out of 5 nights. There are too many ifs with this team including this new system. On the other hand, as I have been stating Josh can play some SF. Also as I have been stating there are not huge, needed changes coming. Al playing more PF just means more time for Zaza who is too inconsistent and does not play a lick of position defense he seems to be in cement when trying to defend. When I looked at the schedule I saw 53 to 54 wins, but with the new system and all the other holes and questions surrounding this team, I think 46 to 47 wins is more realistic and a 1st round exit instead of 2nd.

• Link
• Report this comment

Can’t wait to see this “new look offense” in person…in the season opener @ Memphis…MC will you be attending the season opener? Go Hawks…

• Link
• Report this comment

This is the most exciting article of the off season, by a landslide. I’m tired of arguing how many quality minutes Shaq could have provided or if T-Mac can still shoot.

We have two All-Stars, a should-have-been-an-All-Star, the reigning sixth man of the year, a promising upstart PG learning from a playoff veteran and a handful of solid role players. And now we have a coach who seems like he knows how to utilize all these guys to their potential. That is just awesome.

• Link
• Report this comment

On another subject, so much for the rumor that the Hornets preferred to keep Collison over Paul. If there were any lingering thoughts about CP3 going anywhere, at least within the next 2 years, those should be squashed now.

• Link
• Report this comment

“After reading this assessment of LDrews motion OFF, is there anyone out there who feels Shaq would have been an asset in this OFF?”

The point of bringing in Shaq would have been primarily to help on the defensive end, so that Horford is not left guarding people bigger than him and wearing himself down. In a limited role, there’s no reason why Shaq wouldn’t have worked.

• Link
• Report this comment

LD is my hero!

• Link
• Report this comment

the hawks will surprise alot of folks this year. we will still be a 3 seed in the EAST. boston ain’t better than us. orlando, miami, chicago will have their work cut out for them tryin’ to keep up with this.

• Link
• Report this comment

How long before Pete Carrill is consulting for LD? Sounds like a variant on the old Sac Kings offense when they had Webber & Bibby.

I think this will be a good offense for Marvin. It also uses the personnel that BK kept building when he was here. Offensively, it looks promising. Defensively, I want to see what happens when Marvin is on the bench. Someone has to guard the Paul Pierce’s & LBJs. It should not be Joe (at least not for extended minutes.)

Shame we didn’t get in on that Ariza/Collison deal. Lot’s of moving parts, multiple teams. Sounds like an opportunity to leverage a need a get a useful player.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think this is what BrittishAnger is talking about. From Yahoo:

“Aug 6 G Jamal Crawford still hasn’t gotten that contract extension he wanted. It’ll be interesting to see if there is any movement, on either side, between now and the start of camp. There are rumblings that Crawford is adamant about not coming to camp if the sides can’t come to an agreement. Hawks general manager Rick Sund is notoriously tight-lipped when it comes to talking about contracts and the stuff that gets thrown out there in the blogosphere from time to time. If the Hawks don’t pay him or trade him, they could very well be entering the season with yet another crucial piece out of place because it appears Crawford means business.”

• Link
• Report this comment

Blu-Ray
(1080 P)

Spot on Ray! I have been saying as well for years. The only one problem I had with Mr. Woodson, was that the team had no offensive identity and there appeared to be no assigned roles. The offense always looked free-lanced, helter-skelter, hot – potato, street ball … to me anyways.

Just Flashes of Hooks, Dunks. Alley-Oops and Fast-Breaks:
Very opportunistic offense, but very inconsistent as well, therefore scoring droughts in the 4th quarter when the games are on the line.

Also, presented the inability to score in round 2 of the play-offs.
They simply had NO plays to run. This new offense, should solve those old issues! We shall see?

• Link
• Report this comment

now i get to start my jamal crawford trades of the day…stay tuned.

• Link
• Report this comment

Chris Hunter? Does anyone remember this center for Golden State last year? He played well against the Hawks and is a free agent

• Link
• Report this comment

GT Alum,

Check the Pape Sy blog, and then holla back. Not saying he could play 3 all the time, but some seem to think that he has no chance at the 3.

• Link
• Report this comment

Melvin,

It may sound like mass confusion if you’re used to watching ISOs for the last six years, LOL.

• Link
• Report this comment

MannyT ,

Getting in on moves like the one that just transpired requires vision, committment, and an ever present desire to get better and add to what you have.

Which is exactly the opposite of the attitude of “we like our core.”

• Link
• Report this comment

GT Alum,

No problem. I am on the Banish Marv agenda though, as everyone knows.

• Link
• Report this comment

From MC’s blog.

Woody had a lot of stuff he wanted to run too but he never could coax guys to do it consistently. .

Another big issue with Woody. Lack of accountability. I know that’s MC’s words, but it goes hand in hand with why Woody’s players tuned him out.

You are the HC, so why should you have to coax them? You tell them. And if they dont listen, you bench them or fine them.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Ant…I don’t predict until I know the roster. Check back in mid/late October.

Check last year and that odd contest that Ken Seguira used to do. I have some Ms. Cleo skills

@Ray–every now and then, Sund does his cloack & dagger thing (i.e. getting Jamal) That doesn’t work as well in a 4 team deal.

• Link
• Report this comment

horray to ld. i dont care if we win 53 games or not. i am so sick of iso joe & switching defense. in spite of our 53 wins this team was not fun to watch last year. they hardly ever played uptempo ball. they got blown out early in big games. they played horrible at times & lost to weak teams. jj would try to take over games when we had small leads & we would go down the crapper. all team play seemed to disappear at the end of the season & into the playoffs.joe & josh just seemed to quit. jj needs to play with the team & give the ball up much quicker. josh needs to finish stronger with more dunks which he certainly is capable of. i thought he tried to finese up shots to much,needs to go stronger. no switching this year only when absolutely needed. everybody has to be held accountable.we need to go 100% with teague this year,he has what we need. we need to give jc2 time as he has great potential,please dont bury him on the bench like woody did. when we play our bench be smart. if this team dont play uptempo basketball it will go nowhere. we need to take care of jc1 he is one of the hawks who can really ball. he has big heart & played hard in the playoffs. go hawks

• Link
• Report this comment

when some one isnt playing to great such as marvin or who ever they dont automatically need to start the next game, when someone (anybody) is playing well or playing within the team take them out. please dont be a robot like woody was

• Link
• Report this comment

Gotta give Drew some credit. He pays attention to detail. If this works, the ASG better tear up his contract next summer and give him a better deal.

But the way we’ll know if the new offense truly works or not, is if the 2nd team can successfully run it. Because that’s the weak group of the Hawks. That’s where we see significant downgrades in talent at. The 2nd unit last year couldn’t hold their own for the most part, even when Jamal had it going.

Our 2nd team as of right now is . . .

PG – Teague
G – Jamal C
F – Evans
PF – Powell
C – Zaza

I don’t think there’s no way we can play that group of guys together at the same time. So we’re going to have to have one, maybe 2 starters in the game at all times. In my opinion, Powell doesn’t see the floor. Play Smoove or Horford with the 2nd team.

The person I’m looking at, is Jordan Crawford. This type of offense is tailor-made for his offensive skillset. But I don’t see how he can get on the floor, unless Drew cuts playing time from Jamal and/or Teague.

As MC said, these guys are going to have to be in great shape to make this work. And we need at least 7 players we can count on to execute this.

Right now though, the Hawks look like an indecisve Spades hand . . . . We have 4 ( JJ, Horford, Smoove, Jamal ) . . and 4 possibles ( Bibby, Marvin, Teague, Zaza )

• Link
• Report this comment

northcyde
how the hell can you start bibby over teague. i guess you just want him to hand the ball over to your buddy jj

• Link
• Report this comment

I like what I’m hearing about this offense. Exactly@ O’Brien. If you are the head coach and a guy isn’t buying into your system you sit his butt on the end of the bench and put someone in who wants to be out there. I

• Link
• Report this comment

@Big Ray – “Getting in on moves like the one that just transpired requires vision, commitment, and an ever present desire to get better and add to what you have. Which is exactly the opposite of the attitude of ‘we like our core.’”

Respectfully, I disagree. It is much more difficult to stick to ‘we like our core.’ It requires more vision and commitment to stand pat when the people who pay your salary (the fans) want change. I, for one, am glad that we have a core that is solid enough that we can be optimistic for the next several years.

However, I remain convinced that the Hawks are a significant piece away from moving past the 2nd round of the playoffs. If Teague progresses at the point, the Hawks are still too thin at SF and they need a non-scrub center. I fully expect a trade that will result in a center being brought in.

If the Hawks don’t make a trade (and flub in the 2nd round again) then maybe you are correct: the management of the Hawks lack vision, commitment, etc…

• Link
• Report this comment

“care to predict wins/losses based on this new offensive philosophy that larry drew is installin’? we sucked on the road, horribly. will this offense equal more road wins?”

I don’t know if the home/road split really has a whole lot to do with the offense as much as the team’s mentality. But I think the inequality between the Hawks’ offensive performance against bad teams and good teams will close. You won’t see the Hawks look like the greatest team ever in the regular season against teams like the Warriors and turn around and stink up the joint offensively against the Magic in the playoffs like we’ve seen in recent years. The Hawks will be a much more consistent and much harder to defend team than they have been in the past.

I’m still not convinced that the Hawks’ improvement as a team will be reflected in the standings, in light of the fact that the conference as a whole has improved dramatically. I’m still sticking with somewhere between 47 and 49 wins and the 5th seed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Let me take that back. I don’t think Marvin is a “possible”. He’s at least holds his own at the SF position. So our Spades hand is 5 and 3 possibles. Definitely concerned about Bibby though.

Before training camp, I hope Drew will do the same thing concerning the defense, because that’s a bigger problem with the Hawks.

- transition defense
- defensive rebounding
- perimeter defense
- interior defense

We’re average to below average in all of those categories. I want to see a “camp” on those issues too. As with everything concerning sports, you have to have the right personnel to execute a scheme.

We will find out quickly if we have the right people

• Link
• Report this comment

@ The Truth – “I hope the defense is just as intriguing because that is what actually wins games. However, if this offense is successful, it may sell more tickets which should make the ASG happy.”

I fully expect the defense to be much more improved than the offense. I expect Drew and Conner to build more toughness into the team by establishing accountability. I expect Drew and Connor to pressure the ball on the perimeter more often. And NO MORE SWITCHING.

• Link
• Report this comment

For those who say it sounds like mass confusion;
it may even look that way @ 1st, but, ease your minds
as HS & college teams @ every level run variations of
motion offenses.
drmaryb made an excellent point when she said a high
b-ball IQ is helpful. [not required, but helpful]
MC talked about Josh posting up a [3], but I’m looking
forward to Joe posting almost any [2] he faces. with us
using a big line-up, he should live inside.
It will be fascinating to watch our ‘athletes’ maake this
offense come to life.
My feeling is, LD still wants a stretch [4,5].
I think a trade will happen prior to training camp.
Prediction mid Sept.

• Link
• Report this comment

In a motion offense, will Jamal average 18 ppg again like he did under woody?

I don’t think he will. Imo, That is one reason he wants an extension now, because his value has peaked.

And with a new CBA with probably lower salaries (and a potential lockout) Jamal could be looking at a huge pay cut.

Best case scenario, he stays with the hawks for MLE type money.

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] Cunningham has some insight on Coach Drew’s offense in his latest blog entry. There was lots of motion and ball movement, yes, but what stood out was [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

I question whether these guys can run such a disciplined offense.
We’ll probably have to replace half the guys on the team before this works.
I expect us to miss the playoffs this year.
But I do love what Drew describes.
I look forward to seeing it in action.

• Link
• Report this comment

@ terrell

Did Woody suggest to give Bibby a 3 year deal as well? Like I said, it is Sund’s job to run the team. And if he could’ve upgraded the PG position, it’s HIS job to convince Woody that the guy he’s bringing in, is better than Bibby.

Remember who was the big name PG available last year?

Andre Miller.

Bibby gets a 3/18 mill deal, while Miller gets a 3/21 mill deal. You don’t think we could’ve used a guy like Andre Miller here instead of Bibby?

And who was Woody to demand anything last year? He was on the final year of his deal. You don’t let a coach who you aren’t even sure that you want to keep around, make personnel decisions that could affect your team 3 – 5 years down the road.

Woody says . . “I want Marvin back for 5 years, and Zaza and Bibby back for 3 years.” . . . and you go ahead and do it? Even though you refuse to give that very guy an extension on his OWN contract?

Nah Terrell.

Sund either couldn’t negotiate a deal with another quality PG . . or he completely agreed with Woody, and thought that Bibby was essential to “our core”.

No other way around it. He’s the GM, not a babysitter.

***********

@ rusty

Honestly man, I wouldn’t care who is the starting PG. But now that we’re a playoff level team, the days of just giving someone a spot should be over. We are not in the developmental stage as a team anymore.

If Teague comes into camp an earns that starting job, then by all means start him. But if he shows that he’s not ready, bring him off the bench until he is ready. And if Jordan C proves to be ready, and better than Bibby, then you play Jordan C ahead of both of them.

If you’re a player that is not producing, and your overall presence on the floor hurts the team, I want that player on the bench

********
@ Mr. Strickland

If this is the offense that we’re running, I will agree with you that Drew may not have wanted Shaq in this scheme. That may have not been the right decision, but I could see him saying NO to Shaq.

• Link
• Report this comment

truthspitter – Troy Murphy, although
that’s not necessarily who LD may be
lookin’ @. I’m still hopeful we will
trade for ‘Ajinca’ [also available]
a face up [5] @ 7-1. Plus, it’s only
a gut feelin’ anyway.

• Link
• Report this comment

O’Brien – scoring should be more balanced
across the board.

• Link
• Report this comment

I was callin for Ajinca when we signed Mario last Feb. I wish we would’ve tried some young legs w/ desire and upside over Collins. We still can sign someone and/or trade. I just hope something will happen to settle out the roster at least by the All Star Break.

• Link
• Report this comment

Motion take the emphasis off the point guard.
I’m not saying, a Pt g is un-important.
But, as in LA D.Fisher is not a prototypical
Pt g., yet he is highly effective. [& clutch].
now the ‘Triangle’ is different than ‘Princeton’
Motion or the type I expect LD to run, in that
the ‘Triangle’ has less screening.
[usually very little, if any]
But the point remains the same.
Offensively some pressure will be taken off J.Teague.

• Link
• Report this comment

LD mentioned conditioning would be imperitive.
I agree.
Also, depth and a deeper rotation will be a
necessity as well.
Players will not be able to rest on the offensive
end as all will be involved.
Constant movement.
Honestly, I think LD will have no problem getting
players to buy in because everyone’s involved.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev in Tampa (9:11 pm post)

“I hope” and “you expect”

What the difference?

Agreed on changing away from the switching defense; however, I think Woody abuse of the switching defense is what the core of the issue. It’s not as bad as some frame it to be. The Piston won their championships with the proper use of this defense. What makes it so effective is the element of surprise. When use correctly, you don’t know when it’s coming. Woody was so predictable until opposing teams setup their offense by baiting the Hawks defense into a certain formation; like forcing Bibby to matchup against their center. In fact, that was the Bucks bread and butter offense during the playoffs that took us to 7 games.

• Link
• Report this comment

Grand-Daddy

I see a spread of 15 points from the 1 & 3.
Joe should still get whatever he wants, since he will be option#1 to score on this team, if he has 2 defenders he should pass to the cutter going into the post.
Jamal will still get his 18 on the perimeter and inside. The two scorers should get to the FT line on every other cut to the basket. IF everybody is moving w/o the ball, there should be some curl backs to the three point line, or a roll to the basket if the lane is open.

I think there will a lot of improvising plays to make, when the play breaks down under the opponent’s defensive adjustments. So, there has to be some free-lancing too. It will take several months for everyone to get on that same page.

There will be a lot of turn-overs at first, but that shall self-correct over time.

You – Think?

• Link
• Report this comment

The Truth,

I emphasized the switching-D as the major problem. As you correctly point out, it was the predictablity that made it such a liability. But, as I also said, the toughness is also a major issue. There is no way the Hawks team I watched last year will make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs if they do not toughen up mentally. This is certainly more evident to Drew & Conner than it is to me. I have heard them make several comments to this effect. Because they know it is an issue, ‘I fully expect’ them to address it as a priority. The Hawks are an elite team athletically. But they have to get their mind right. Even MC called their defense, “sometime-y defense”. Can you imagine this Hawks team playing every night, every quarter, with tenacity. Wow!

I still think that the Hawks are a significant trade away from moving into the NBA Finals, but even without a trade the Hawks defense should improve more drastically than the offense if they learn to increase their intensity on defense. It stands to reason since there is more room for improvement on defense than offense. By the way, it is defense that wins championships.

• Link
• Report this comment

drmaryb (*_*), I learned how to cut an paste on blackberry yesterday. I was so glad to hear you say you couldn’t do it because I couldn’t figure out either. But once I figured it out it is quite easy.
1. Press the menu key and scroll toward the top. You will see “Select Mode”. Press it.
2. Go to the text you want to select.
3. Press and Hold down the “Lowercase/Uppercase” button on the extreme left or right hand bottom corner.
4. Use the scrolling ball to select your text.
5. Press the menu key. The menu will automatically be at “Copy”. Press it.
6. Go to the place that you would like to paste the text and press the menu key. The menu will automatically be at “Paste”. Press it.

• Link
• Report this comment

rod been hearing you on the josh thing at the three. i have been saying almost the same thing drew said today that he could be used to over power some threes on both d and o. i dont want to see him following a ray allen type though through screen after screen but that is usually what a two does on most teams ala what they did in detroit with rip. a lot of three’s dont do that so i can see josh doing quite well for short stints just like one would expect with al going to the four. no on had said or i havent heard you say al and josh should start at the three and four nor play 3/4 of a game in that position. now if they prove me wrong and look awesome at the new positions then keep them there. i just like that big line up possibility and would have liked to see it at least a few times during the season when we were getting our heads beaten in by playing as nire said, if plan a doesnt work then use plan b, try plan a harder.

• Link
• Report this comment

dr mb just get a mac…. command c then command v to copy. god i hate windows.

• Link
• Report this comment

Samuel,

That’s agreed, but Drew himself will have to commit to negative reinforcement like Phil Jackson does. Run the designed offense or you’re coming out of the game. Run the offense from game to game or your minutes will be drastically reduced. But we don’t really have the bench to enforce that type of negative reinforcement, and although we do have the better guard depth than any team in the league (which I think we do), and we should be able to make it the guard’s responsibility to keep everybody moving, JJ and Teague are two of the most laid-back on-the-court players on the league.

What a difference it could make if those guys would just speak up.

• Link
• Report this comment

truthspitter;
Thanks for the correction.
I missed the news, I caught the Collison part on the blog,
but did not follow up on the details. [Troy Murphy]
We, as you said, “if Sund had any vision”?
Another one bites the dust.
Once again, thanks for keepin’ an ol’ man current.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev in Tampa
“Hey Look!”. I did it! Kewl – I am sooo smart! (smh)

drmaryb (*_*), I learned how to cut an paste on blackberry yesterday. I was so glad to hear you say you couldn’t do it because I couldn’t figure out either. But once I figured it out it is quite easy.
1. Press the menu key and scroll toward the top. You will see “Select Mode”. Press it.
2. Go to the text you want to select.
3. Press and Hold down the “Lowercase/Uppercase” button on the extreme left or right hand bottom corner.
4. Use the scrolling ball to select your text.
5. Press the menu key. The menu will automatically be at “Copy”. Press it.
6. Go to the place that you would like to paste the text and press the menu key. The menu will automatically be at “Paste”. Press it.

August 12th, 2010

(*_*). He He ……… I did it – real good! LOL

• Link
• Report this comment

Mary Ellen;
several points:
*turnovers – more likely to come from being up-tempo.
Motion off does -not- lend itself to turnovers.
Fundamentals & concentration are a premium.
It is not a risky offense.
However, players -cannot- be careless!

It would be hard to predict who scores:
*In motion oft times the off. players are reading the def.
Therefore, the opposing coach may attempt to take
something away.
That’s the beauty – take one thing away – someone else
is open. *[imperitive, players must be un-selfish]
This is why LD keeps saying (5) players attacking.
This is not a star system!
This system is set up for balance.
Look for Joe and Jamal’s numbers to decrease.
[perhaps only slightly] *(offense)
Look for Josh & Al’s numbers to rise.
Marv as well.
I look for Teague to have a big yr. but assists are
more important to him than points.
*[asst. to t/o ratio may be the key to his success]
Bibby’s 3 pt shooting will determine his value.
I predict double figure scoring for Zaza.
*[Zaza returns to 12 & 8, as in his 1st 2 yrs wi Hawks]

Team Assists will be up:
* Look for more assist opportunities from more players.
* Wings hitting cutters.
* Post feeds [Zaza feeding Joe in the post]
not your typical assist.
The high / low feed is the best in b-ball
(it take away help)
* Look for Josh to get some triple doubles.
*Josh, pts, rebs, assts, [blks] quad double?
* the team shoud hit 20 assts every nite.
**[actually more]**

I hope I answered all your questions thoroughly.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev in Tampa:

Your turn for some schooling:

OMG – Oh My God! (careful there – use this one carefully).
ROF – Rolling on Floor! (laughing position).
LOL – Laughing out Loud! (self evident).
SMH – Shaking my Head! (unbelievable).
SMDH – Shaking my Damn Head! (that’s a damned shame).
WTF – What the Eff! (don’t use that one – Rev!).
Effin’/Fkn – Woe! (A Lady can’t repeat that one!).
IDK – I don’t know! (self evident!).
WTH – What the Hell! (careful – Rev!).
Twin – Jason Collins’ Twin Brother is on His Back! (Over-Weight!).
Cheeseburger – Jason Collin’s 5 Food Groups! (he’s fat!).
Duck – Marvin’s Feet! (If it walks like a duck – it’s a duck!).

That’s about all I can think of right now.
Help me out fellas! We gotta’ skool the Rev in Tampa.
-smiles-

• Link
• Report this comment

MsDee – Look for the Hawks to be kind of vanilla
in the pre-season. (baby steps)

• Link
• Report this comment

Grand-Daddy!

That is Change – I can Believe in!
I actually understood all of that.
I am sooo smart. (rof). I doesn’t sound as complicated now, but I am winded from thinking about it.

That means Joe better find his track shoes!
It reminds me of:

Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Rip Hamilton
Jeff Hornacek
Josh Childress

• Link
• Report this comment

Grand-Daddy!

And:

Ron Harper

• Link
• Report this comment

For all:

The picture above MC’s article;
*(Bender dribbling)
shows an alignment of two guards, two wings, one high post.

On a secondary break, the two up top
(aligned as guards)
May very well be a [1] & a [5]
or a [1] and a [4].
Typically on a break, a Big [4 or 5] will
be the last man down.
So many times the offense starts with a Big up top.
The high post could even be Joe if LD wanted to set it up
that way. For match up purposes it could change from
game to game.
Same for [in] game adjustments.

I just used the picture as a reference.
that is only one set of many.

• Link
• Report this comment

Pentangle for Dummies!

Grand-Daddy!

Thanks for sharing your expertise on the new offense!
You are now in your element with the simple explanations!

You are a Teacher! KISS (keep it simple – stupid).

• Link
• Report this comment

A bit off topic. However, I think it’s a balanced and fair view on our current situation:

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2010/8/8/1611665/like-it-or-not-asg-got-it-right?ref=yahoo

People get too hung up on moves, trades, this and that and start over valuing marginal guys when the truth is that we have a pretty decent group and we are well positioned to make some moves IF AND WHEN necessary later in the year.

• Link
• Report this comment

vava74, thanks for the article. It sounds like they’ve been reading Ken Strickland and Grandad.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev,

I guess I did sound too down on Bibby’s chances. I realize he’s only 32. I just got a bit sour when he basically checked out last season. The guy has the ability to command the floor and run our team anytime, but seemed to not be involved last season, especially when it counted. Was that Woodson or was it bad chemistry on our team? Time will tell.

LD & ASG basically bringing back the same team tells me it was the players shutting down on Woodson. Hopefully LD will garner their respect. Hopefully with real competition firmly in place Teague and Bibby will both excel trying to keep the starters minutes.

Both in my mind are very valuable. I tend to hope Teague can play 1/2 the game this season while supported by Bibby. That way he’s not under the pressure of playing the entire game…which he’ll need to do next season and thereafter to command our team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Fundamentals, I agree with your comments regarding Teague. Bring him along in such a way that he can succeed.

• Link
• Report this comment

Grandad,

Big difference in HS and College and the NBA. Also Sloan and Phil vs LD. You have an 82 game season plus playoffs. These guys pace themselves and I don’t see LD being able to change that as a 1st year coach making 650 grand a year. Plus, who’s he gonna put in when he “holds players accountable”, “pigfoot Collins”?

Like I said, you have one or two coaches who have been successful with it. We’ll see if LD has what it takes.
Is LD=LS/PJ?

• Link
• Report this comment

Samuel
I’m guessing LD isn’t going to run fast paced Princeton sets all the time to run us ragged. I’m guessing he’s going to have several looks or sets that we can run to keep the opposing defense off balance. We might actually see Teague or Bibby dribble up, command a play and see something besides handing to to the SG and running to the corner.

Anything new will be a blessing to all players compared to that.

• Link
• Report this comment

A little perspective

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17062

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev, that was the talk when they signed him and then Woodson did his usual, bench the kid. I do think Bibby has value to us or to other teams. His salary isn’t that extreme, though you can’t think that here.

Rufus1’s article post does keep it in perspective.

Our success is based on if we gel and if we can support LD from a player and van standpoint. I don’t think other teams are as critical on positions 11-13/15, but for us it seems we have to pick on something.

ASG and the Hawks can’t say they don’t have loyal, passionate and dedicated fans…though Mike may want to stop by my house and talk to me a while after gettin on him today a little. I just remember the Sac town days and his arrival. That’s what I want to see. I’m sure he does too, only this time we’ll get over the hump.

• Link
• Report this comment

This seems to be (with the talent we have)a high scoring offense once everyone gets on board and we can execute it.
I love the concept of this offense and how LD will showcase the players strengths on the offensive end.
Now having said that..I wonder what kind of defense we’ll be playing.
I heard on sports radio in Denver that Othello Hunter may be used a lot coming off the bench this year,and will be looked upon for weakside help on the wing..

Wish we had him in this offense,he would have been great

• Link
• Report this comment

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=princeton+offense&aq=0

For those of us who need a visual, here is a nice intro to the Princeton offense.

• Link
• Report this comment

I bet Bender & Ferrell are better than Bibby & Marvin…

• Link
• Report this comment

Why does Bibby score 22 points then disappear and score 6 the next game on the same number of shots ? Mr. Inconsistent poster boy. Runners up are Joe Johnson and Josh Smith.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rufus1, thanks for the article. Very refreshing. I expecially liked the conclusion:

“It remains to be seen if Atlanta is truly a great team waiting for the last key ingredient or just one of those teams that sprout as a playoff contender for 5-6 years and then fall back into mediocrity. But to simply close the door on their current run and not respect the gains and talent the franchise has accumulated as of late shouldn’t be accepted — at least from hardcore fans. Time to give a little respect.”

• Link
• Report this comment

long season for the hawks in the newly stacked east where they will be vying for the 6th seed at best. get real josh at the the three; no handles at all, none existence of a mid game, and then the body type of a karl malone on a weight lifting protest

• Link
• Report this comment

[...] [...]

• Link
• Report this comment

Ask Drew how he plans to stop LeBron,Wade,Bosh & the Heat ? He doesn’t have that answer…

I bet Dumars, Rodmen, and Lambier would find away.

• Link
• Report this comment

To the Ptree hoops link: maybe you got one or two of them correct. The ASG retained flexibility. So what, that doesn’t translate to a championship run this season! Shaq not being here….okay, take your chances with Zaza and Twin……………again. Don’t give me the comment about Twin NOW being in shape. Why did he sign here if he wasn’t going to be ready? Don’t blame Woody……..again! When are the players going to be made accountable?

The ASG is a complete joke this offseason. They were the grand recipient of the highest paid player this offseason. Congratulations. You think E#2 considered taking less to make this team better?
I know I wouldn’t have either. E#2 isn’t about getting more elite players in here. Neither is the ASG.
They overvalue their roster and teams like OKC make us look slow.
For a new coach who thinks we have so much flexibility….sounds like a guy who has a team where no one does anything great.

This team is not complete, most of us agree with that. Did they make moves to improve this team THIS year? Looking no further than this year, I say no. How can you look much further with an impending lockout?
What do we need? Hmmmm, let’s see…
- some interior defense with more length than what we have now
- improved leadership at the PG.
- a defensive presence on the court in the perimeter…I am counting on Marvin to be that…still waiting.

I am all for Teague getting the shot, but motion offense favors Bibby IMO. Similar to Derek Fisher and Jason Kidd, Bibby has the smarts to retain his position in LD’s new offense. He has offensive advantages over JT. I like JT and he might be the PG we need going forward. I just have to see him match up more against the elite before annointing him the floor leader.
Let’s go into this season with the 10 guys and 2 min vet contracts……always good not to have the 13th player on the roster yet so the fans can debate who the much needed 13th player will be.

Basing what LD does with this roster is an experiment in waiting. I can’t argue for it or against it at this point.
Wouldn’t it be great to be able to blame all the limitations for the past 3 years on Woody?

Its time the players are held accountable…..

• Link
• Report this comment

We stopped everyone but Dwight last year. Why is this year so special? They’ve only got one ball between them. I think our only real defensive liability is Teague/Bibby against the Heat, but they can handle Chalmers so I’m not too worried. Our problems have come on the offensive side…not the defensive side.

When we gel and play team D we can shut down anyone. If you haven’t noticed that watch every game. It helps to watch more than the nationally televised broadcasts.

• Link
• Report this comment

Man, you guys have been presenting some serious links. This OFF is going to give us a tremendous advantage over Miami. People are so hung up on DWade and LeBron’s excellent help DEF, they ignore the issues they have when defending one on one. The motion OFF eliminates their ability to provide help DEF, and forces them to them to defend one on one, which exposes their DEF weaknesses.

These links also validates Grandad and myself, along with a few others. So, I guess we’ll no longer be viewed as over zealous optimists by the multitude, especially by those negative minded GLASS HALF EMPTY fans. Don’t be surprised to see the Hawks lead the NBA in points in the paint, fast break points, assists and OFF efficiency.

Some fans have already complained about us having too many guards. But with JJ, Teague, Bibby, Jamal & Jordan Crawford, we’ll be able to provide constant perimeter DEF pressure for 4qtrs all over the court. That move alone will reduce the DEF pressure on our front line players.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev

I have posted same info on 3 different national blogs over past 3 days, including Bleacherreport.com. maybe they were reading my stuff…Lol

I agree with the article. I am an optimistic person and I believe this years Hawks will emerage as a Legit Contender for the East. I am a firm believer that with a change at the PG and better coaching, we are Legit. I never thought we were efficient at the 5 because Al is very good, but the PG’s defensive liability is serious. It Teague can change the we are a completely different team.

PS. I have never believed D12 was our problem with the Magic….I believe it is Jameer Nelson, when he breaks down our defense.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Rufus1 – “PS. I have never believed D12 was our problem with the Magic….I believe it is Jameer Nelson, when he breaks down our defense.”

I agree. Jameer Nelson is an exceptional player, but the Hawks opened the door for him to exploit them last year with our stubborn use of the switching-D.

I view Dwight as a “fixed fortification” defensively. So the idea offensively is not to go through him but around him by playing a great mid-range game with lots of activity outside the paint. Defensively, however, the Hawks must make him work without making him the focus. Give him his points & rebounds, but the focus should be on the perimeter. I really want the Hawks to find a true center that can make Dwight work hard without double-team help.

• Link
• Report this comment

AMEN Daniel – 99.9% of the time I can agree with your every word every time.

Woodson is the easy excuse to buying time before accountability sets in.

You can never run from time…it’ll always catch you and then the truth will find you out or set you free.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken Strickland – “High Five”

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev in Tampa:
Thank you ever so much.
I forgot last evening to express my gratitude
for your kind words, toward KS & myself.
I was having so much fun discussing the topic
@ hand that I almost overlooked my ‘new’ good friend.

• Link
• Report this comment

Great Post Vava

Even with great players you have to put them in the best postion to win.

• Link
• Report this comment

Any word on Mike Woodson’s eyebrows?

• Link
• Report this comment

Any word on Woodson period? What’s he doing?

• Link
• Report this comment

The truth is the Hawks are not as talented as Boston, Miami and Orlando. They may be as talented as Chicago and Milwaukee. No offensive system is going to change that. We HAVE to play like a team that has desire, grit and a never say die attitude to stand any chance of being a second round sweep again.

The Hawks have tried to sell us that we should “Rise Up” and “Now we know”. Well, all we really know is that this team (owners, coaches and players) lie down and blame shift.

Maybe they should just market “Hey, Woody is gone!!! Now we can finally play like winners!”

Pathetic.

• Link
• Report this comment

LOL at the comments Daniel – Perfect!

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel, the playoffs against Orlando were over before they started. The Hawks were out-flanked by the Magic’s offense. It was purely a strategic victory. It was IMPOSSIBLE for the Hawks to beat the Magic given their switching-D. Van Gundy said that he was going to make the Hawks pick their poision – either defend the perimeter or defend the paint. The Hawks chose to split the difference and defended neither. It was embarrassing. I would have given up as well.

I, like you, also believe that the Hawks have a character flaw in their determination. Their dismal road record and their performance against the Knicks, Bobcats, & Pistons give truth to this character flaw. MC called their defense “sometime-y”. But I love the character statements that I have read from coaches Drew & Connor. They intend to take control of this team and begin working on the character flaw as a first priority with their training camp conditioning.

• Link
• Report this comment

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17062
Article titled “The Atlanta Hawks Deserve Some Respect”.
My guess is that if they show heart and play hard when it matters most respect would follow..

• Link
• Report this comment

Oh wait, I am supposed to be excited because he has drawn up a motion offense utilizing his assistant coaches. Oh yeah, maybe he can start selling instructional DVDs too. Wake up. We are being lied too. We have to demand something more from our players, coaches and owners.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel, what do you want Drew to do – throw the players under the bus even before training camp? If he did that he would surely lose them. The players would tune him out. One of the biggest advantages of changing coaches is being able to start fresh. The past is behind them.

“Encouragement is oxygen to the soul.” ~ George Adams

• Link
• Report this comment

Would this offense need the traditional PG role less than before the change?

• Link
• Report this comment

I’ve been saying that we need to try running different combinations of players in our lineup for certain situations in games. I’ve always said try Josh Al and Zaza in the gm at the same time or move joe to to sf and have teague and Jamal or Month running the 2! I’m glad Zaza will hopefully get more tick he’s the type of player that’s not good with playing with small mins did we forget Zaza almost made all star team before Al came!

• Link
• Report this comment

@Dap…
Teams tend to try to trap the motion offense early so the point guard main responsibility is to get you into the offense. If the ball stalls, get the reset and reverse ball… Bibby did this really well when Divac and Webber made the right decisions.

• Link
• Report this comment

dap01;
check out my post on:

August 11th, 2010
10:31 pm

• Link
• Report this comment

What do yall think Joe’s PPg will be without running all those ISO’s to him? I can see this offense dropping Joe and maybe even Jamals ppg but raising Josh’s, Al’s, and Marvin’s.

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel, I came to my present pastorate after a very unpopular pastor. But the lay leadership enabled his unwise decisions. I did my homework and found out where all the problems were and continued to be. I have never said a poor word about my predecessor, nor did I demand an accounting from the lay leadership. But I did make major changes upon coming to the church. They were the polar opposite decisions that those same people had made in the previous years and the people followed joyfully BECAUSE they knew what the problems were without stating them..

Drew is eloquent in his silence about the past. His decisions are the polar opposite of Woody’s decisions. In other words, in my humble opinion, Drew is exercising great leadership. His decisions so far and his attitude toward personal responsibility speak very loudly about his feelings about the past.

I wish the ASG and Sund would be more forthcoming generally, but there is nothing to be gained by even glancing backward. Onward Ho!

• Link
• Report this comment

Hawks will show everyone that they are same team in GM1 against Memphis as they lose on the road to Memphis who is deeper than the Hawks

• Link
• Report this comment

question for the masses…when dampier gets released in the next week or so, would you advocate signing him to say a 2-yr deal starting around $4M for the first year?…it would throw us in to the luxury tax if another move wasn’t made, but is he enough of an upgrade over collins to take on that extra money?…he’s still a pretty good defender and only takes shots when he knows he can make them (usually 60+% in fg%)…35 yrs old i think.

• Link
• Report this comment

JoJo, I would like to see what we can shake loose with a trade a little later. If you have to ask us, “is he enough of an upgrade over collins…,” you have answered your own question.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’ll back the team 100%, but it is an issue till they put it to rest. Sorry Ken. I’m 90%+ glass full, but I can’t lose all reality in your hopes of all positivity.

Would you say Smoove’s development and maturity is still an underlying issue that may involve LD? Should we be children or are we to assume he’ll come out this year a bonified man who takes care of business and snatches his All-Star bid like a champion on the way to successfully competing in the 2nd round? I want the latter, but won’t believe it till I see it.

Too many years of the same ole same ole. Woodson wasn’t the only problem here. LD just can’t turn the light on to scare away all the monsters in the closet and under the bed. We need solid proof to sleep soundly at night.

• Link
• Report this comment

Dampier would be a serviceable center that might meet Al’s needs. I’d say he’s worth that price. Better than Twin.

• Link
• Report this comment

#1 who is Twin? Josh Powell?? I hope not, because he needs to earn a nickname…

#2 I like everything I just read abou LD’s offense, sounds like the exact opposite of Woody’s offense…which has to be a good thing.. Hawks are very athletic team, and which is why I never understood the
i-so offense…if you have mobile guys, why force them to stand still on offense??? That serves the defense better if they only have to defend 1 or 2 players…

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev I’ve labored how I think Josh is on the cusp of being an All Star who should be on the Def 1st team every year. Don’t jump on me like I just started blogging today.

Would you say Josh still has a tendency to check out on either end when he’s not happy with his touches, the refs, Woodson, some girl in the stands, etc? Is that mature focus on the team?

I don’t think it’s a Drew thing. I just asked Ken if he thought all the issues would just go away b/c Woodson is gone?

Trust me I’m positive. I’m on board. I want them to succeed, but we can’t just ignore the past. We have to learn from it. Josh hasn’t in all repects.

Is shooting 1-2 feet inside the line enough to say you don’t shoot 3’s anymore? All he needs is say a 10-12′ jumper, not one out at the edge of the line. Focus, mature, use your God given talents for His glory and to help others, not for your own personal gain.

It’s like the Christian walk. Yeah, maybe he’s saved, but everyone is not perfect and need of growth, maturity and excellence as they walk. He’s not there yet. Everyone can see it. Everyone can see the potential. Everyone can see the skills. He’s just gotta use what he’s been blessed with.

• Link
• Report this comment

LOL @ Fundamentals . . . well said man.

It’s kind of like believing that a President, Governor, or Mayor can come right in and change the world overnight, just because he has good ideas. You have too many entities in the governing body that may prevent even a good leader to bring about effective change to the system.

Drew has my full support. He can only work with what ownership provides him. So if the ideas he has in place doesn’t work, and we can see WHY it isn’t working, then you have to put the majority of the blame on ownership/management.

If it does work, Drew needs a hefty raise, and management can say that they were right. But they’re not going to convince many people that they did all that they could to upgrade the team.

If Teague, Zaza, and Mo are going to be our 7th – 9th players, they MUST play more consistent basketball, especially Zaza and Mo. Even if Teague isn’t ready, we have enough players here to possibly compensate for that. But a guy like Zaza is under the gun this year. He cannot play like he did last year.

People despise stats . . but here’s another one for you.

We only had 6 players last year to post a positive +/- number. ( Horford, Smoove, JJ, Bibby, Marvin, and Jamal ). The rest of the team posted a negative number. For a 50-win team, that’s almost unheard of. That’s a clear illustration of how ineffective our bench was last year.

• Link
• Report this comment

Fundamentals, I have only been on this blog since mid July so I am still getting to know the personalities.

I have also taken Josh to task pretty harshly in one of my first posts. It was occasioned by MC’s question to Josh about what he was working on this summer. Josh simply said he was watching videos to decided what he needed to work on – and this was mid-July.! Yes, there is room for growth in Josh’s maturity, but, as you say, we are all a work-in-progress. So the question becomes, “Is the trend upward, downward, or flat?” My point is that it Josh is trending significantly upward and there is no evidence that he will regress or stagnate.

I apologize for jumping on you.

• Link
• Report this comment

Larry Drew wanted Shaq. Love to say more, but that would require revealing a source. As it is, Shaq ain’t here. End of story.

• Link
• Report this comment

…Except of course, to say how that is solely Woody’s fault, of course.

• Link
• Report this comment

I wouldn’t mind trading Mo Evans for Corey Brewer. Seem like he may be the oddman out in Minny with the arrival of Wes Johnson and Martell Webster…

• Link
• Report this comment

Mo and ZaZa responded every time they got significant minutes last year. I feel like with a defined role and real minutes both will be valuable. My issue is Mo will most likely get lost in the shuffle or put in at SF where he’s undersized. It ain’t his fault, he’s out of position.

• Link
• Report this comment

I guess missing wide open layups down the stretch is responding if you say Mo responded, and Zaza showed up 1 out of 5 games at best. My problem with people that defend guys like Zaza and Marvin is that they always want you to give them something. Give Marvin more shots and a bigger role. Give Zaza more playing time. How about they earn it or take it? Most of you guys don’t have the mindset of a champion that’s why you make excuses for these guys

• Link
• Report this comment

truthspitter,

CHECKMATE. Beggars gets nothing. Only Earners.

• Link
• Report this comment

Bibby sucks, why are we still talkig about him like he’s apart of the team! If he doesn’t get passed in the depth chatrts by Teague and Jordan Crawford then somthing is teribly wong with this team. TRADE HIM!

We were warned by kings fans that he only showed up one out of every five games but we chose to ignore it. After Bibby got his 18mill it was a wrap, the fat slob. I haven’t seen him show up since.

• Link
• Report this comment

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16934

• Link
• Report this comment

DANIEL-LDrew made player accountability a primary issue, especially in regards to DEF, shortly after he was named to replace Woodson. Do you really think he’d be dumb enough to repeat Woodson’s obviously stupid mistakes, or allow the same negative behavior to be repeated by his players, that led to Woodson’s departure?

Do you really think that after 6yrs of working with Woodson, and experiencing the result of his stubbornness, inflexibility, and attitude towards vets and rookies first hand, he doesn’t know what needs to be done? After all, didn’t JJ and Teague state that players chose him as their sounding board when they became frustrated with Woodson.

Don’t you think Sund, and at least a few members of the ASG, formally interviewed most of our players before making their decision to replace Woodson and hire LDrew? Isn’t it rather obvious from the hiring of LDrew that most, if not all, of the players that were consulted approved of both decisions? We’ve heard several players endorse both LDrew and his OFF system, but not one(1)hint of a negative comment from anyone that’s familiar with LDrew or his OFF.

The problem I have is the number of fans having issues with LDrew, and/or his OFF/DEF systems, that are basing those issues on what they DON’T KNOW rather than what they DO KNOW. Therefore, their opinions are what is know as UNINFORMED OPINIONS rather the INFORMED OPINIONS. If all you’ve seen or heard about our new HC, as well as his OFF and DEF, is positive, and there hasn’t been as much as a hint of concern from anyone that’s directly involved, especially the players, why automatically take a negative position when there’s nothing to support that opinion?

RUFUS1-EXACTLY!! We have fans who are quick to believe the hype about how talented the Bulls and Bucks have become, but can’t accept that the Hawks current roster is one of the NBA’s most talented. We know that Marvin, Smoove, Horford, JoCrawford, Teague and JPowell can and most likely will improve and progress talent wise. And while JJ, Bibby, Zaza, JaCrawford and Collins aren’t likely to improve talent wise, they can certainly become more efficient and productive.

Sund and the ASG hit a home run, not because they let Woodson go, but because they hired LDrew. Hiring him allows the team and organization to retain all of the positives that Woodson brought, as well as eliminate most, if not all, of the negatives he brought as well. He also eliminates most of the adjustment problems and issues that both players and coaches go through when bringing in a new HC, coaching staff and OFF/DEF systems.

• Link
• Report this comment

Charles, that’s Mr.Barkley to you Queen James…

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/08/12/charles-barkley-rips-lebron-miamis-big-three-as-punks/

• Link
• Report this comment

WATCH OUT FOR BLATCHE THIS YEAR.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

KenS must be sitting in on coaching meetings. He has provided us all the reasons why Sund hit a home run this season.

“Sund and the ASG hit a home run, not because they let Woodson go, but because they hired LDrew. Hiring him allows the team and organization to retain all of the positives that Woodson brought, as well as eliminate most, if not all, of the negatives he brought as well. He also eliminates most of the adjustment problems and issues that both players and coaches go through when bringing in a new HC, coaching staff and OFF/DEF systems.”

Anyone out there who challenges KenS will get an eyeful with his CAPS and his all out attack on negative posters here. He brings nothing but facts here.

I get it Ken. You point to Woody….
No blame to Joe, so give him a huge raise
No blame to LD, so give him the gig…..it wasn’t his fault, he was ignored for 6 years and couldn’t get his point across.

I swear Ken, you have drank the ASG koolaid to justify spending 25% of your cap on a 3rd teamer.
When the cap is at 67 million in 2014-15, he will be at 38% of the team cap. Genius move to keep our all NBAer. You will justify that move as well I’m sure.

Glad to see you see nothing but roses for a team that got smoked in Round 2 and made 1 change: LD. I am gonna love to follow this adventure. Perhaps you should write a book about how you proved your facts before anyone else. Beat that chest sir! You have made all of us believe!

It was Woody on the grassy knoll!

• Link
• Report this comment

Daniel,

about this: “We have to demand more than some bs motion offense smoke screen.”

Dude, you are losing it. DEMAND? Exactly what leverage do you have to DEMAND that Drew say something to the press that pleases you?

LOL!

Look, I get that you think he should have addressed the lack of effort against Orlando, but why should that be a public thing? Are you positive that he hasn’t talked to the team about it?

You must have really hated that hire, but get a hold of your emotions on this one. And no matter what Drew has (or has not) said, doesn’t he deserve a chance before you rip him?

• Link
• Report this comment

ken, that was a championship team that finished second you are talking about who has more depth at center/strong forward than we do even with perkins out and they stlll go out and sign him. guy still has game, he didnt cost the suns or the cavs their seasons when he was with them. in fact, he put up good numbers in phoenix, only they wanted out of their financial obligations to him did he become expendible or decided to go small ball is my guess dont you think, since they have downsized their payroll considerably? only teams willing to really go after the heat are willing to do a move like shaq to fortify their team.

ken actually, when i hear that LD was for shaq it is one more feather in his quiver of credibility that seems pretty good for now or at least until the lights come on. as najeh pointed out he has done well to this point. let us see how his record looks after 10 or 20 games.

• Link
• Report this comment

DOC-I just don’t see why you feel Shaq would have provided us with what we needed. As a starter, he hasn’t done squat for any of the 3 teams he’s played for since winning the NBA title with Miami. After winning it all in 05/06, Miami was swept in the 1st rd by the Bulls in 06/07, and missed the playoffs all together in 07/08.

The Heat promptly shipped his butt to Phoenix, who’d been in the playoffs the last 5yrs. In the 08/09 season, with Shaq as their starting center, the Suns missed the playoff. But as soon as they shipped his butt to Cleveland, they made it to the Western Conference finals.

The yr before signing Shaq, Cleveland made it to the Eastern Conference finals. The yr they signed him, they ended up getting embarrassed in a 2nd rd elimination. If he’s hurt the last 3 teams he’s started for, how can he be of any appreciable help to us as a disgruntled player that feels AHorford should be backing him up, instead of the other way around?

• Link
• Report this comment

I agree with those who feel like Drew is just politicking or saying all the right things. Woody won 53 games as head coach last year. Drew has done nothing but talk and promise change like all politicians do. I will give him a chance but I think he is just selling a dream that I am not buying unless the owners and Sund change the personnel on this team. Meaning get rid of Marvin for a true starting caliber SF or the best player you can get back, get a starting caliber C, and get a starting caliber PG because Teague is not ready from what I saw of him in summer league

• Link
• Report this comment

Good Lord, some of you act like you’d rather that he’d said all the WRONG things.

“Drew has done nothing but talk and promise change like all politicians do. ”

Truthspitter, please tell us exactly what YOU think Drew should have said to the press.

• Link
• Report this comment

TRUTHSPITTER-I’ll take a HC that says all of the right things, because it shows he at least knows what the right things are, whether he does them or not, over a HC that’s dumb enough to say something stupid like, I DON’T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE OFF. Tell me TRUTHSPITTER, are you a big fan of being STUPID?

• Link
• Report this comment

“I swear Ken, you have drank the ASG koolaid to justify spending 25% of your cap on a 3rd teamer.”

Lol… I like the Drew hire because every Hawks rotation player showed up at his press conf except JJ. The players will buy in to his system and the Hawks will be better without the worst coach in the NBA.

As for JJ, I maintain what I argued before he signed… they should have signed and traded Joe Johnson and let Al, Smoove and Jamal all go to the all star game out of his shadow.

JC1 was a better player than Joe Johnson in the playoffs at half the cost. So far JJ’s contract has caused us to trade lottery pick J. Childress for a future second rounder. At the trade deadline JC1 will be dealt because the Hawks cannot afford to resign him.

Maybe Chills was never going to play for the Hawks again because he felt dissed. But without JJ’s max contract the Hawks could have held out and got actual value for their lottery pick. So that’s a lottery pick and a player (JC1) who would start for 75 percent of the teams in the NBA, gone because of JJ’s contract. In two years will Joe Johnson be more valuable than those two players? Is he more valuable now?

• Link
• Report this comment

Mary Ellen,

Or “to be determined”. Works either way.

• Link
• Report this comment

Rev in Tampa,

I enjoyed your analogy of the church that you took over. Very apt, I’d say.

And you must be not only an upfront guy, but a heck of a sailor to navigate THOSE tricky waters.

Good posts lately.

• Link
• Report this comment

KevinM,

If you are you business man, you will understand supply and demand. If the Hawks didnt offer JJ a max contract, the Bulls and Knicks would have offered him a max contract. It is what it is.

Guys,

Its ironic that some people want to blame Shaq for everything that went wrong when he was in Miami, Cleveland and Phoenix. Could it be the coach’s fault too?

After all, everybody blames Woody, so why is nobody blaming Mike Brown, or Mike D’Antoni? Nobody (except northcyde) talks about the fact that when Shaq was on those teams, guys were injured (Wade, Amare, even Shaq).

And nobody was expecting Shaq to lead us to a championship. But he would have given us another weapon in the playoffs.

I would not have signed for Shaq for $8 mil and promised him a starting spot. But when it was clear that nobody was offering him the money he wanted, I would have offered him $4 mil, and promised him consistent PT coming off the bench.

• Link
• Report this comment

KenS – Find your ways to justify these changes. LD is the reason why there is so much optimism.
What does everyone at a PC do? They are united in supporting him? They said the same schtick when Woody was here. They all stood behind him and sang kumba-ya.

You should go support them; you believe they can contend? More power to you..

LD better have the assistants understand the system, because no one has any idea at this point. I expect them to hold their own on our court and do good things on the road. But that doesn’t justify what they coulda, shoulda, woulda done when they had an opportunity instead of just being satisfied being a EC playoff team.
Since you are on the inside being the optimist you are:

Tell AL and SMoove that Zaza and Twin is enough, quit asking for more help.
Tell JJ that he can stop recruiting……our 12 can match up with anyone, except Orlando/LA/OKC/Miami..hmm, that puts us in the Top 5 POTENTIALLY in the NBA!
How can I gripe about that? We’ve got the team we need….I just realized.

Interchangeable parts……….hey, BK was right all along, we are going to change the game with all our integral parts and fast moving, high flying motion offense.

There Ken, I feel optimistic now…..everything is good in Atlanta.

• Link
• Report this comment

KEVINM-This isn’t fantasy basketball, and you aren’t a GM, although you obviously seem to think you are.

1-you’re upset about JJ’s contract, and that he was resigned, against your wishes,
2-you’re upset JChildress was traded, when you wanted him resigned,
3-you’re upset the ASG didn’t fire Woodson when you wanted them to,
4-you’re upset JaCrawford wasn’t made the starter in place of JJ.
5-you’re upset the ASG disagreed with everything you wanted them to do.

With your delusions of being a GM, along with all of your B!tching and whining over matters that shouldn’t concern you, when do you find time to be a fan?

• Link
• Report this comment

Only one problem KevinM . . . . Shaq isn’t coming here if that’s the team. Basically swapping out JJ for Chill does nothing to bring Shaq in. Shaq wants to win a title. At least with JJ here, you could say that we have a 4 time All-Star still here for him. to play with.

With Chill, you tell Shaq that he gets to play with a guy who got his Euroleague team to the Finals.

The Hawks are better off with BOTH JJ and Jamal, than with just one here.

Now if you want the Hawks to truly be real, they should add Shaq AND Chill . . . and keep JJ in the process. Of course, that’ll probably put them 5 mill+ into the Luxury Tax, but we’d now have 3 pretty good bench players ( Jamal, Chill, and Shaq ) to throw at teams.

That would be a squad that no one would complain about ( other than should Chill start or not ).

Seriously, imagine if this was our offseason:

- draft JC2
- draft “favorite big man from draft”
- sign JJ
- sign Chill
- sign Shaq

With that offseason, who is really complaining? And how hyped up would people be about this team? That would’ve given us one of the best and most marketable teams in franchise history. If it was ever a moment in which the ASG should’ve taken a chance and “went for it”, it was this summer after the big man was available.

Instead, we have to settle for this:

- draft JC2
- trade #31 for 3 million
- sign JJ
- sign Jason Collins
- sign Josh Powell
- sign one more vet minimum player

The goal of every playoff level team, should be to improve enough year by year to have a fighting chance at a Title. What we realistically could’ve done, and what we actually did, is like night and day.

That’s why people are negative.

• Link
• Report this comment

Football season @ Big Ump.

In 3 weeks, most of us can at least divert some of our focus on football. I know I will.

• Link
• Report this comment

^•^
~ ….. Mmmmmmmwah!

• Link
• Report this comment

Do I have a 2nd?

* ) into *
I hate typos.

• Link
• Report this comment

why isn’t anyone talking about trading Marvin for Prince from Detroit.I think he would be a much better fit for our team.

• Link
• Report this comment

Big Ray,

+- stats mean nothing.

bench players need consistent minutes and a clear rotation system (and or to be used in favorable match ups) to perform.

before last year you wouldn’t give a dime for Amundsen, Dudley or Dragic, now everyone thinks that they are excellent.

when given starter minutes, Mo Evans which everyone around here says is a scrub performed, both in 2008/09 and last year.

Look at last year’s stats when he started:

As a Starter G5 MPG 32.6 FG% 0.545 3P% 0.632 FT% 0.667 ORB 2.0 DRB 2.8 RPG 4.8 APG 0.8 SPG 0.8 BPG 0.4 PPG 15.2

• Link
• Report this comment

The Luck of the Draw!

I believe the NBA Scheduling is done with a computer progam that has the
marquee teams pre-loaded for holidays, prime-time TV slots and
the avoidance of arena schedule conflicts with other venues like Hockey Games and concerts.

There is no Wizard of Oz behind some curtains pulling all the strings – that would be impossible with the teams traveling schedules added in there as well.

IMO. The teams are shuffled through an automated program.
With very little human control. That’s the only way it makes sense to me.

• Link
• Report this comment

draft “favorite big man from draft”

Alex Kennedy: By the way, Caracter’s contract is fully guaranteed for year one. I’m pretty sure he’s the first 58th pick to get guaranteed money.

• Link
• Report this comment

And I actually coached 2 teams – the school had so many guys wanting to play ball – we had 2 teams that we scheduled separetely – ran practices on 2 seperate courts simult. at the same gym the school had.

But the women’s games were the best it seemed – I reffed those – those young ladies competed, and were almost always more fundamentally sound than the guys.

We had some great ladies basketball players…..

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW,

Nice insight and good read.

It’s obvious that the players will have to leave their egos at the doorstep for this to work. The good thing is that we have young and fresh legs (maybe one of the reasons why JoeS was ditched for Powell) to match the conditioning needs which this style implies.

JJ presumably left PHO because his ego was too big for him to cope with the fact that if had stayed, all pointed out to the fact that he would have continued to be a fourth option.

The million dollar question is:

Will he be happy to be, still a first option but not be called upon to play the “one-on-one-I-am-the-main-man” game he played these past few years?

My guess is that he will, although I noticed during last year that JJ often launched stupid shots (some of them early in the shot clock and not necessarily during ISO plays) trying to hit the killing shot.

More often than not he missed those and the opposing team benefited from a 4 or 5 point swing killing our momentum.

Drew will have a tough task. We all know that. However, he deserves our trust having said the right things from day 1.

Until the tip off, all is speculation, but we should try to be fair when we speculate given the fact that at least from his side the message has been good.

• Link
• Report this comment

why doesn’t the ASG come out and publicly explain why they screwed this city by not doing anything to improve our team during the off season.I don’t think they read these blogs at all to see what the fans perspective is on what they are doing.

• Link
• Report this comment

And like Grandad – I feel a trade coming on.

Sund is a vulture – he’ll probably get us something for almost nothing – See Jamal

As far as Shaq – he was a playoffs only guy. The game slows down in the playoffs, that’s when Shaq would have been valuable – forget most of the regular season, he could have helped on occasion, keep in shape etc.

And I’m sorry – I was expecting Shaq to help us compete for a championship – I know the negatives – old, no pick and roll defense, locker room cancer etc. – but he could have helped in the slow down game of the playoffs.

If you matched us up with the Lakers, Heat, Magic, Celts with Shaq on the roster – would could compete!

• Link
• Report this comment

KenS- Judge and jury….haha
Stating opinions is what this blog is about…. you don’t like it, don’t respond…..you aren’t selling me on the elite position Sund and the ASG has put this team in. Don’t let me read where you criticize or 2nd guess anything. Tell the ASG I don’t plan on helping them to a 4th seed position again. Help fund the ASG’s version of a championship model…….haha
They will continue to be on the bottom of pro sports in Atlanta. You see a 1/2 full arena and I see a 1/2 empty arena…wonder which one will be closer to reality…haha

northcyde – you do make it possible for someone to make his points and not attack them just because they aren’t sucking up to the LD/ASG/Sund anarchy.
You make very good points, and yes, having E#2 and JC1 does make this team better…but with the constraints that the ASG (not anyone here), they can only get so much better paying one person that much. The end result last year leaves a lasting displeasure and after attending way too many of these exorcisms, I can say that it will be better to watch from a distance.

JoJo – if I were Shaq, unless I was forced to come here, I would not have either….my destinations if the choice was there, would be Boston or the Lakers….those franchises just get it! If the ASG refuses to bring former stars, and someone who had Al-matching stats, then you really have to build from the draft and trades.. E#2 isn’t convincing any willing big name to come here either.

The Billy Knight model is alive and well here.

• Link
• Report this comment

P.S. In the Motion offense, because of the extra energy exerted, injuries will mount.

Not much chance of injury standing around waiting for JJ or Jamal to iso….

• Link
• Report this comment

DWade = Kamakize= Injured alot in the NBA – the Dream Team may add 2-3 years to his career, because now he doesn’t have to do it all – and Wad has gotten all in with his conditioning as well it looks like.

• Link
• Report this comment

O’Brien – co-sign your last post.

• Link
• Report this comment

“As for LD, I think he has said all the right things, and the fact that all the players (except JJ)”

Wasn’t JJ a free agent at that stage? Instead of “all players (except JJ)” shouldn’t it be “all players under contract”?

• Link
• Report this comment

Good job by JJ.

I guy that earned a max deal under this CBA is under a moral obligation to show his face and participate in the negotiations of a new CBA which will reflect on how all other players will be treated contractually.

• Link
• Report this comment

I think there’s a misconception about our intended use of the motion OFF. We’ll be first and foremost an uptempo fast breaking team that will score a lot of our points in transition, instead of a half court oriented team that walks the ball up, like last yr. The SHOWTIME Lakers of the past were an uptempo fast breaking team. When they couldn’t run, they relied on their half court OFF, but they depended primarily on their ability to run and score transition baskets.

LDrew stated he wouldn’t totally abandon the ISO, or pick and roll, only that he wouldn’t rely on them as his primary option. With him, what offensive option he uses will be based on matchups. With Woodson, if the ISO or pick and roll didn’t work, he had no plan B for the team offensively, unless you consider blaming the players for not playing hard enough an option.

It appears Drew isn’t afraid to assume the full responsibilities of being a HC. He’s willing to develop and play rookies, young players and his bench, hire specific help and actually rely on that help, make adjustments, create and exploit match up advantages, especially during gms, address obvious OFF/DEF problems, and address player performance issues, while at the same time holding them accountable.

When we can’t run, we’ll hit them with a half court OFF that will feature some ISO and some pick and roll, which usually involves 1 or 2 players, or a motion OFF that features a lot of ball and player movement, and total player involvement. This is what was missing in our half court OFF when we weren’t hitting our outside shots, and teams were successfully defending our ISO’s and pick and rolls.

STEVEW-We’ve both had our say, so let’s call a truce. I’m just a fan who’s interested in dealing in what we have going into this season, not what we coulda, shoulda, woulda had, that’s all. In the end, we both want the same thing, and that’s for the Hawks to be more successful than last yr, especially in the playoffs.

We can often get so engrossed in individual confrontations that we tend to focus on collecting fuel for our attacks, and fail to recognize the positive points and contributions each has to offer. I know I’ve been guilty of that a few times.

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW

The NBA is headed for a lockout. Greedy owners + Greedy players = a lockout.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ken S – One last thing about Showtime with the Lakers – they had Kareem and a big PG named Magic to grab boards – wish we were a little better at rebounding to get the break started. If we had a dominate rebounder like Rodman who could also make smart outlet passes – I wouldn’t want to see us play – we would be sick (in a good way)!

• Link
• Report this comment

P.S. My favorite coaches? Both college – John Wooden – he was the role model used in college coaching for our kids that I coached

Coach K – Defense, Toughness, Effort – If only he emphasized offense a little more, he might have doubled or even tripled the number of Nat’l Championships he has won.

Still not a bad career emphasizing, Character, Recruiting, and the above mentioned attributes. Not bad at all…

• Link
• Report this comment

Rusty – I think the same thing – JJ quit or something. Jamal looked like he was the only one of our major guys competing at times – and so the Magic just locked him down, and that’s why he was so bad statistically against the Magic.

But as far as effort goes, he probably gave the best in the 2nd round.

• Link
• Report this comment

SteveW

Sir, looks like you have strolled through a few parks – a time or two.
That was a nice stroll down memory lane, thanks for sharing the history of your passion and experiences, it helps to know where a blogger’s point of views are coming from!

My memory only goes back to 1986 :
Dominique and all of them, during the Jordan Era.
I guess that makes me half-baked, compared to SteveW.

Anyway, awesome posts last night from: KevinM, SteveW and
NorthCyde. If I overlooked anyone, sorry but the entire blog was really on fire!

• Link
• Report this comment

Is Jonathan Bender or Patrick O’Bryant still on the market? The Hawks need a legitimate 7 footer. I know neither of these two will do much but I would rather have a 7′ over etan thomas or another 6′9 pf forced to play center for us. Can we trade someone or a 2nd for Thabeet? He is going to be like Mutumbo in a few years.

• Link
• Report this comment