Atlanta Hawks: “Slight” chance you’ll see Pape Sy
Pape Sy might join the Hawks.
Back when the Hawks drafted Pape Sy and brought him to Summer League, assistant GM Dave Pendergraft said there was “no chance” the team would buy out Sy’s contract with Le Havre of the top French League. Over the weekend Pendergraft upgraded that to a “slight chance” Sy will join the Hawks this fall.
Pendergraft didn’t elaborate on Atlanta’s reasoning for the change of heart. But considering how the Hawks praised Sy’s competitiveness and physical tools in camp, I’m assuming they see him as a guy who could eventually help as a wing defender. Plus Sy, who has one year left on his French deal, would come cheaply as a second-round pick.
Heck, if the Hawks bring in Sy and then add a center prospect it could be the beginnings of a bona fide player development program. I think the Utah Flash would be flabbergasted if a Hawks guy showed up.
– It seems Al’s comments about playing power forward caused a frenzy among my blog people. Actually, it seems any news that potentially means Marvin goes to the bench gets people excited.
But as far as I can tell Al’s comments reflect what I wrote last week: LD plans to use a “big” rotation that includes Twin and also will use Al and Zaza together. It doesn’t mean a change in the starting lineup but rather more combinations of bigs and a deeper rotation.
I can’t see how shifting Smoove to small forward would ever be a good move. I know he played the 3 as a rookie but when I talked to him about that he didn’t seem too enthusiastic about going back. Why take a guy whose forte is defending the paint away from the glass? Wasn’t that one major weakness of the switching D?
And do you really think Al would be a better power forward than Smoove, or at least so much better that it’s worth it to stick Josh out on the perimeter guarding the best athletes in the league? At the very least, don’t you want to see how Marvin looks under LD before such a drastic and potentially counterproductive move is made?
– Please be patient as we try to eradicate the blog troll . There are some technological things being worked on above my pay grade that should help with the self-policing. In the meantime, we will erase messages and ban posters as soon as we can after we are notified. You can help us out by flagging inappropriate comments and refraining from feeding the troll.
MC
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202 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
5:41 pm
“So ‘DrJ’ would play the [4] in the NBA in today’s game?”
No, but if he was the same age as, say, LeBron, he would have grown up developing a 3-point shot, knowing how important outside shooting is in today’s NBA, and would have come into the NBA with the 3-point shot being a much more significant part of his game. That’s the point I was trying to make.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
5:44 pm
Najeh,
“Straight line foot speed and lateral quickness are two completely different things. Josh is a very quick straight line player. Moving side to side, not so much.”
Again that is only your opinion. Josh is just as quick laterally as Marvin, but they are just two different typs of defenders. Marvin tries to play position defense, but poses not threat of the blocked shot or intimidation. Josh uses his quick jumping ability and great timing more than his feet. I’m am more than sure if you took a poll of all the 3’s in the league and asked them who they would rather be guarded by, MArvin or Josh, Marvin would win hands down.
Astro,
“The T-E-A-M is better of with Horford, Josh and Marvin as the front court players whoplay the majority of their minutes at the 5, 4 and 3 respectively. It doesn’t much matter who is capable of what, the issue is about winning. Right?”
Can’t really say that because under Woodson we never tried any other lineups. We never matched up with anybody. I personally think that a big lineup with Josh at the 3 would have been a good way to go against Orlando. The same way those teams create mismatches against us, we should be creating mismatches against them. That was part of Woodson’s problem.
ryan
August 9th, 2010
5:49 pm
I hear that the Pistons may trade Prince and there have been discussions about the Hawks being interested Prince. Have you heard anything about that Cunningham .
Laurent
August 9th, 2010
5:58 pm
Hello from France
I don’t know if it has been written before (you write too much guys lol) but for your information, in an interview here (sorry it’s in french)
http://www.catch-and-shoot.com/2010/08/06/news/le-point-sur-leventuel-depart-de-pape-sy-vers-atlanta-avec-pascal-levy-lagent-du-joueur-exclu-catchshoot/
Sy’s agent says the contract buyout is about 500.000$ but the deadline date is passed. Anyway the discussions are still running and they are talking about a amount for the breach of contract. But of course Atlanta doesn’t want to pay 500K$ for a second round guy, and of course Le Havre wants the maximum at least to be able to find a replacement player plus maybe another guy buyable with Sy’s tranfer money.
It seems to be sure that Atlanta wants Sy (for what kind of plan, I don’t know), and because if Le Havre keep Sy 1 year more they won’t have any money back at the end, therefore the question is to find the good price.
See you
Laurent (north of France – fan of french NBA players)
NB:sorry for english faults!
Grandad
August 9th, 2010
5:59 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
5:26 pm
If you read what I said;
“moving perpetually”.
Therefore, player X will not be able to stand
and play “hokie pokie” in the lane.
He will be concernd with going over, under or through
screens. Here’s the best, Josh is an extremely good
passer, so player X will deny Josh in certain situations
to prevent him from becoming a playmaker, Josh will
backcut all day long. Then Josh the sreener, [3 0r 4]
matters not, (remember thats my point) slipping screens,
getting a mis-match off the slip will be devastating.
Astro Joe
4:55 pm
According to the premis laid out in this this post;
our best line-up: [my opinion]
(1) Teaguer
(2) Jamal
(3) Joe
(4) Josh
(5) Al
K-Dogg
August 9th, 2010
6:56 pm
Man this team im willing to bet anyone out their if it stays the same will not get out of the 2nd round and will finish 3rd in their divsion and at best a 5th seed. Who want this money????????
K-Dogg
August 9th, 2010
7:03 pm
Im about to start make money this year off of this predictable a** team!!!!!
85Souf
August 9th, 2010
7:05 pm
I wonder who would make the bigger impact to their respective team if they had an All Star caliber season, Marvin Williams(Hawks), Jeff Teague(Hawks), Michael Jenkins(Falcons), or Jamal Anderson(Falcons)???
Sautee
August 9th, 2010
7:06 pm
The Real JC,
about this: “It’s about having two starting-caliber power forwards on the same team. Sure you can shift one to the 5 or the 3, but they are less productive than at their natural position.”
OK, we shifted Horford to the 5 and he made the All-Star team. That’s not “less productive” to me. Do you think he makes the All-Star team as a 4?
Remember that he’d have to beat out ONE of Bosh, Amare, and Boozer. I don’t see that happening. I think he has more mis-matches at the 5. That doesn’t mean don’t use him against the lesser 4s of the league, but he should and WILL play the most minutes at the 5. And I’m fine with that.
My .02.
K-Dogg
August 9th, 2010
7:09 pm
Sautee if Big Al could make the team at the 4 if not its b/c that postion is stacked the same way Al Jefferson at times did not make it and the East is stacked at point guard and someone will get left off this year. He can play the 4 and have a bigger impact on games playing his natural postion. By the way he made the All-Star team and im not trying to take that away from him but had the Nets had a winning record do you think he would have made it over Lopez????????
Buddy Grizzard
August 9th, 2010
7:21 pm
“it would be interesting to see if they do with Sy. he didn’t play much for Le Havre so i’d think he needs more court time against good comp.”
This guy didn’t even get run in FRANCE and you think he’s going to push Marvin for minutes against NBA 3s? He would sit on the bench as the fourth two guard behind Joe, Jamal and Jordan Crawford.
And we passed on Derick Caracter, a better big man than anyone on our bench, to draft this guy. Caracter is presently deciding whether to take a huge contract overseas or play for a championship with LA.
drmaryb (*_*)
August 9th, 2010
7:31 pm
Daddy’s Home!
MC
Thank the Lawd you are back from vacation, the troll kid-napped us with all the
Bully-Sully comments! That troll needs to wash his mouth out with some
Ivory Soap for real. I saw that disgusting post today and that dude has some very serious issues going on there. Apparently he gets a disability check for a mental illness. I hear he goes to public libraries to post all that crap.
So, don’t drop the kids off there, the library isn’t safe anymore!
Pape Sy (Pop See) I think that is the pronunciation, would really be a nice add on this season. Even, if we can help him with the buy out of his contract, it should be half-price by the trade deadline. There has to be a way he can get out of his contract for a NBA job once drafted. Don’t they have Agents who can get them a player option over there? We could really use a guy like that now.
I feel very optimistic about the team, like Ken Strickland does.
There is a lot of good talent on this team, we just need a few more pieces.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
7:45 pm
Rod, it seems unlikely that a guy who made the ASg at Center and a player who was runner-up to DPOY would be better served by changing positions in deference to either Zaza or Collins.
granddad, that sounds like a line-up that would get crushed on the glass and have little opportunity to push the tempo. I also don’t think that Teague and Jamal make a paricuarly good combo in the backcourt. I have long felt (and said on Ray’s blog) that Teague may not have been well served by sharing the backcourt with Jamal… Evans would have been a better complement.
King Teezo
August 9th, 2010
7:51 pm
Sautee I’m with you 100%…Horford at the 5 was not the problem for the Hawks…Yes, Howard was a beast, but he was a problem for any team that didn’t have the players to defend him…In many cases Horford was a matchup problem at the 5 for a lot of team b/c he has quick feet and a strong upper body, b/c he’s 6′10 was really not the issue for the Hawks…Sure he should play some 4, but now they are banking on Zaza and Collins to hold down the paint, lol (why pass in Shaq if thats the case)…Paint D was not the problem for the Hawks, its their weak wing players with the slow legs hoping that Horford or Smith was gonna have their back…Peace…
SteveW
August 9th, 2010
7:53 pm
Grandad – Here is your quote/my quote
“Josh does not have the skill set to play the [3]“.
A statement you have since contradicted by saying;
you would move him if we got a Big/true/(?) center.
I am not contradicting myself here. What I am saying is that if we have to have an option – say we get Andrew Bynum (for sake of discussion) – and don’t trade Al to get him – I would much rather have Josh out of place on the floor at 3, than Marvin at 3 with Josh on the bench.
I have stated that if Josh worked on his jumper, and lost some weight, he could play 3 better.
And you admitted as far as spacing on the floor – ad nauseum – that Josh could just as easily do the things that you say from the 4 spot as from the 3 spot – so why move him?
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
7:55 pm
Astro,
Again that comment was made in reference to matching up with Orlando, or if we made the move to get Shaq. Could a different lineup have done better than getting blown out by almost 25 ppg agianst the Magic in the playoffs? Who knows? I don’t think they could have done any worse.
85Souf
August 9th, 2010
7:56 pm
The Hawks do need a new owner/owners, How much does this franchise cost, I know Nique and Smitty got enough money to buy this team…
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
8:10 pm
Rod, I don’t think having Al chasing Rashard Lewis around the court makes much sense. And IMO, the key to beating Orlando starts with the Hawks offense.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
8:19 pm
Astro,
What about Rashard checking Al in the post? What about Vince Carter trying to check Josh? The argument goes both ways. You also could still have Josh defend Rashard, even if he was playing the 3. It’s called making adjustments. Maybe since you have been watching Woodson for the last couple of years, you forgot that it is possible. Great coaches also know how to create mismatches offensively. There is no way you can convince me that the Hawks would have been wosre than they were last year against Orlando with any lineup changes.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
8:21 pm
In addition maybe that simple lineup change would have helped us offensively by giving us three mismatches (Joe, Al, and Josh). Who knows.
kwooden1
August 9th, 2010
8:28 pm
I wouldn’t mind seeing Sy this year, I think he can backup Marvin. We didn’t get to see him that much in the Summer League because of the injury but I liked his attitude during the time he was on the court. He likes to attack the basket and is really active on defense. I would really like to see another post player on the roster, but if we can have Sy also I will take him. He showed a nice handle for the short time he was on the court.
The Truth
August 9th, 2010
8:32 pm
Buddy Grizzard
That is sort of the impression I got as well; 4 SGs on a team that is staving for bigs, now that “change” we can believe in. Any buy-out of Sy contract added to his NBA payroll cost negates the cost benefit of signing a 2nd-round 53rd draft pick player. It would seem that a better alternative would have been to just use the first round 31st round pick (we acquired) for a better player. Now the question becomes, how much of the 3M dollars Sund bragged about will cost the Hawks after they “change their mind” to want him this season?
E43
August 9th, 2010
8:37 pm
i just think that the organization keeping this team together is a good idea because we have no clue what coach drew philosophy will be or the personnel we need to be bringing in. the whole entire team has potential to either flop or or succeed in the new system. it would be disaster if we used that luxury tax slot on shaq only to find out the he just doesn’t fit into our system. same with Marvin and childress. they might both flourish in a different system but i guess well find out if that is so for both..
Ex-Season Ticket Holder
August 9th, 2010
8:39 pm
I’m still waiting on “over paid” Joe Johnson to help recruit those Free Agents – that is what he said. What a joke!
Blast
August 9th, 2010
8:42 pm
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……..
Can’t wait for the Off Season to end.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
9:12 pm
Rod, I’m sure that Drew will try more combinations this year. He has very little to lose this coming season so i hope that he tries all kind of tricks, because the odds of him paying a consequence for a below average season in 2010-11 seems fairly low. About as low as the odds of Marvin leading the team in scoring.
westurd
August 9th, 2010
9:17 pm
I hope those that have the higher pay scale also are realizing how much of a good job your doing on this blog thing here….nice work MC
MsDee
August 9th, 2010
9:19 pm
@Laurent(from France)…
THX for the update on Sy. Since u are from France and all, how do u rate Sy? Will he be any good in the NBA?
Rev in Tampa
August 9th, 2010
9:36 pm
From reading all this discussion I am feeling like I don’t even recognize the Hawks. Everybody is moving everybody to different positions. We have a very good team. We are athletic and talented.
Horford has the size and athleticism to play center very effectively. He has the quickness to play power forward sometimes to create a mismatch. But he is just a tiny bit too slow to excell ALL the time at PF. I am thankful that we have such a quick center.
Josh has the size and athleticism to play power forward very effectively. He has the athleticism to dominate at this position. He has the speed to play small forward sometimes to create a mismatch. But his shooting is too inconsistent to excell ALL the time at SF. I am so glad that we have such an athletic power forward.
I could keep going, but I hope I have said enough to let you know where I am going. We have the athleticism and talent to throw different looks at teams without changing the personnel. Even our back-ups have these same athletic qualities that give them extra weapons.
Those on this blog that take the negative view on everything will say that the Hawks have a bunch of ‘tweeners’ who are not ‘prototypical’ and, therefore, out of place and ineffective.
Sidenote – Our age, with the explosion of technology and ‘knowledge’, has created the ’specialist’ and the ‘expert’. Nobody sees the need for the ‘generalist’ who can do more than one thing well. I’ve got news for everybody. It is the generalist who can do several things well (not as expertly as the specialist) that run the world. The pin-headed specialists are only able to do one thing well. – Sidenote ended.
When I played basketball in college our point guard was 6′8″. He brought the ball down the court and started the offense. But if we did not score off a set play, and the other team was playing man-defense, then guess where he ended up? Through a series of picks & switches he ended up on the block. He posted up better than I ever could. All I ever played was post. I’ve got board hands and can’t dribble to the other end of the court unguarded, but guess where I ended up while he was posted up on the block. I was at the top of the key.
My point is, when you have a versatile team (as the Hawks have) a player’s position is relative to the other team’s weakness.
joBjo
August 9th, 2010
9:51 pm
looks like this guy is a mini Joe.
and that name Pop See, gotta be one of the better names in the NBA on the day he signs.
The Truth
August 9th, 2010
9:56 pm
After further review, I am also beginning to warm-up to the idea of Etan Thomas as a Hawk big-man option. He is thicker then Boone with slightly better stat numbers including his FT%
Melvin
August 9th, 2010
10:09 pm
Rating the Shooting Guards… Of course I would flip flop 3 and 4 on their list…
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17035
Rev in Tampa
August 9th, 2010
10:12 pm
The Truth, the Hawks should NOT sign another scrub center to ride the bench and fill out the 13 man roster. They are still a significant player away from the championship caliber. They will need to make a trade when the camps open or at the trading deadline.
I don’t know who will be available when bottom-feeding teams will be willing to part with players who could actually contribute. I don’t know what their asking price will be, but I do know with absolute certainty that Etan Thomas will not get us into the Eastern Conference Finals.
SteveW
August 9th, 2010
10:13 pm
Rev in Tampa – that is exactly right about Josh and Al.
Both sides have arguments both ways – I’m sure not changing my position that at this point, Josh is a better 4 than 3, all things being equal.
The other side is equally vociferous that Josh could be just as good or better at 3 than 4.
We’ll see what happens when the season starts,
Now about that last big man the Hawks are looking at….
Rev in Tampa
August 9th, 2010
10:16 pm
Truth-Serum, you crossed some lines that shouldn’t have been crossed and I completely agree with your life-time ban – such that it is.
However, if one of your alter-identities is Paul Hewitt’s Agent, please tell him that I really enjoyed the post several weeks ago that interwove the Altanta Hawks and the Beatitudes. It was one of the more creative things I have seen in some time.
Rev in Tampa
August 9th, 2010
10:23 pm
For those of you who missed it, here is the posting where Paul Hewitt’s Agent used the Beatitudes to give his commentary on the Atlanta Hawks, the ASG, and the NBA.
@ Rev in Tampa – Just for you…
Blessed are the poor Atlanta Spirit, for their money is not for the Association.
Blessed are those Hawks fans who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit Shaq
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness,
for they will be filled with Chic Fil-A and Vitamin Water.
Blessed are the merciful Heat, for they shall show the Hawks mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see the Lakers win the championship again.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the sons of David Stern.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of Free Agency, for theirs is the kingdom of Miami.
Blessed are you when people insult you on the blog, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Rick Sund. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in the playoffs, for in the same way they persecuted the Hawks who were before you.
nunna!!
August 9th, 2010
10:49 pm
Im more interested in seeing how LD will form this team.For once,he will be the MAN!!
He has had the luxury of being the mouth to the ear of coaches he was assistant to..And now,he will be the decision maker..Lets see if his “good talk”in the media translate to actually having this team play to their strengths and that they are put in a position to compete and win every game.
We’ll see..We’ll see..
SteveW
August 9th, 2010
11:02 pm
I’m not sure what kind of open heart surgery Etan had a few years ago – and even though I have thought he might be an intriguing option – I wonder if his health issues have scared some teams away. All the people I know who have had open heart, your not supposed to bump the area. I don’t know how you couldn’t in the NBA.
All the other guys look bad to varying degrees. Not sure Bonsu, Aminu, or Siler might not be worth the gamble so to speak. .
Sara
August 9th, 2010
11:27 pm
Yeah I just can’t see Josh playing the 3. I thought LD said he wanted Josh to have more of an inside game and take away some of his outside shots?
The Truth
August 9th, 2010
11:49 pm
Speaking of Siler; some have been critical of his slowness and foot speed. If you carry around nearly 300 lbs, how fast can you expect this man to be? From a speed prospective alone, he can’t be any worst then Ilgauskas and he is 260 lbs; besides his slowness doesn’t seem to bother Pat Riley. However, with 4 centers already under contract, I’m not sure how Riley to use him except maybe to obtain his rights and stash him away somewhere (away from us). Riley would do that.
pinoy hawk
August 9th, 2010
11:50 pm
Until we see LD’s offense in motion, we can only speculate how JSmith will be utilized in the SF position. But because SFs in the NBA are primarily scorers and ball handlers, I don’t see JSmith being effective in this position considering his poor ball handling skills and limited offensive moves.
northcyde
August 9th, 2010
11:54 pm
Way too many issues with Smoove playing the 3 to warrant playing him no more than spot minutes at that position.
- Smoove would literally be THE WORST jumpshooter at SF in the league. And it wouldn’t even be close. His jumpshooting stats prove this. If Smooove woukld completely eliminate jumpshooting from his game, his FG% could go up to around 52% to 54%.
- Smoove will NEVER be even an average shooter. People need to face that fact, and quit talking about how “if he just worked on his shot”. It’s not gonna happen folks. And you can tell it’s not, because he’s a below average FT shooter. FT shooting and open midrange jumpshooting usually goes hand in hand.
- Smoove cannot guard slashing SFs. If he could, Smoove would draw the assignment against those types of players. And to add to that, his closeouts on shooters is poor. If Smoove could adequately defend the position, you could justify playing him extended minutes. But he can’t.
Like others have said . . . a Horford – Smoove – Marvin lineup is stronger than any lineup in which we have “scrub center” – Horford – Smoove in the game.
If people want Marvin on the bench, the better move is to start Crawford and slide JJ to SF. The Bibby – Crawford – JJ – Smoove – Horford was our best lineup last year. There’s a reason for that. Actually 2.
- the offensive firepower that the group possessed.
- the switching defense, which didn’t let Bibby ( and sometimes Crawford ) get exploited on the defensive end.
doc
August 10th, 2010
12:00 am
stevew etan is ready to go after his sternotomy, the incision they made to repair his aorta, tricky surgery but once out of the window of possible complicsations he should be fine. the kid with the lakers traded to the warriors and since traded this summer had the same op and did fine as well and was the brute he was in college.
JeJe
August 10th, 2010
12:03 am
Horford said we did not do well in playoffs last year because we were very individualistic. Pretty much saying Woody’s offensive plan sucked and didn’t facilitate anything.
ASG is a joked
August 10th, 2010
12:50 am
The Hawks should have not re-signed Joe Johnson and spent that money on Amare Stoudemire. Amare could have played Center for the Hawks The hawks team would have looked like this.
PG: Jeff Teaque/Mike Bibby
SG: Jamal Crawford/Jordan Crawford
SF: Josh Smith/Marvin Williams
PF: Al Horford/Zaza Pachulia
C: Amare Stoudemire/Jason Collins
SteveW
August 10th, 2010
12:54 am
Doc – Thanks – I had no idea
Northcyde – I got your back – expect to be pummeled by people saying that if you have to have Josh at 4 (6-9, 240), Dr. J (6-6, 205) also should have been a 4
- LD’s motion offense makes traditional roles obsolete – so any player can play anything
- That because of floor spacing, Josh and JJ will be unstoppable as the 2 and 3’s of offense, even though they could do the same thing with Josh at 4
- That Josh is the natural 3 and Marvin is the natural 4, not the other way around
You will be hearing this by normally rationa, sanel people, who seem to be extremely nice and well adjusted in everyday life, who of course are entitled to their opinion
Be warned….
SteveW
August 10th, 2010
12:55 am
Oops – rational, sane in last post – sorry for the misspelling – my bad!
Najeh Davenpoop
August 10th, 2010
1:06 am
“stevew etan is ready to go after his sternotomy”
Sternotomy? That’s what the NBA commish should call it any time he fines someone…
Najeh Davenpoop
August 10th, 2010
1:26 am
“I’m not sure how Riley to use him except maybe to obtain his rights and stash him away somewhere (away from us). ”
This is not possible unless they draft Siler, which is impossible since he already wen undrafted.
The Truth
August 10th, 2010
1:56 am
“This is not possible unless they draft Siler, which is impossible since he already wen undrafted.”
They sign him to a 2-yr vet min contract and send him off to d-league at such time they receive his early bird rights is a possibility. If an active player is assigned, he is automatically placed on the team’s Inactive List so he is not effecting active roster moves other then cap.