Atlanta Hawks: “Slight” chance you’ll see Pape Sy
Pape Sy might join the Hawks.
Back when the Hawks drafted Pape Sy and brought him to Summer League, assistant GM Dave Pendergraft said there was “no chance” the team would buy out Sy’s contract with Le Havre of the top French League. Over the weekend Pendergraft upgraded that to a “slight chance” Sy will join the Hawks this fall.
Pendergraft didn’t elaborate on Atlanta’s reasoning for the change of heart. But considering how the Hawks praised Sy’s competitiveness and physical tools in camp, I’m assuming they see him as a guy who could eventually help as a wing defender. Plus Sy, who has one year left on his French deal, would come cheaply as a second-round pick.
Heck, if the Hawks bring in Sy and then add a center prospect it could be the beginnings of a bona fide player development program. I think the Utah Flash would be flabbergasted if a Hawks guy showed up.
– It seems Al’s comments about playing power forward caused a frenzy among my blog people. Actually, it seems any news that potentially means Marvin goes to the bench gets people excited.
But as far as I can tell Al’s comments reflect what I wrote last week: LD plans to use a “big” rotation that includes Twin and also will use Al and Zaza together. It doesn’t mean a change in the starting lineup but rather more combinations of bigs and a deeper rotation.
I can’t see how shifting Smoove to small forward would ever be a good move. I know he played the 3 as a rookie but when I talked to him about that he didn’t seem too enthusiastic about going back. Why take a guy whose forte is defending the paint away from the glass? Wasn’t that one major weakness of the switching D?
And do you really think Al would be a better power forward than Smoove, or at least so much better that it’s worth it to stick Josh out on the perimeter guarding the best athletes in the league? At the very least, don’t you want to see how Marvin looks under LD before such a drastic and potentially counterproductive move is made?
– Please be patient as we try to eradicate the blog troll . There are some technological things being worked on above my pay grade that should help with the self-policing. In the meantime, we will erase messages and ban posters as soon as we can after we are notified. You can help us out by flagging inappropriate comments and refraining from feeding the troll.
MC
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202 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
2:00 pm
I thought Collins’ nickname was Cheeseburger, what happened to that?
tyger
August 9th, 2010
2:04 pm
Screw Pape Sy, let’s not make excuses for not signing Shaq. There’s no problem with Smoove at the 3. The problem is Smoove jacking up 3s. Al needs help, he knows it, he said it. Smoove knows it, he said it. Everyone knows, we have all said it. Ownership has ignored the obvious and chosen to handicap the franchise.
What the status of the ownership lawsuit? We need an update!
Hoops
August 9th, 2010
2:06 pm
Concerns for playing Josh @ SF:
1. He has no outside shot. That is not his strength. The positive in this possibility is LD is going to use a motion offense, which means that Josh will be passing, cutting, screening, posting, & cutting off of screens. Because od LD’s offensive plan, I can see how Josh could play some minutes @ SF.
2. Perimeter defense is not Josh’s strength. He must improve his lateral quickness and at the same time anticipate other players moves before they make them. The coaches can help him with scouting the opponent as well as perimeter match up assignments. Most of the time Joe can take the tougher assignment when Josh is playing SF. Teague would have to be the PG in this rotation. Bibby & Josh would put two weak perimeter defenders on the court together. The coaches can make it work for short periods of time.
3. The big concern, in my mind, is what’s the advantage of playing Josh @ SF, for the Hawks? Josh has got to bring a complete game if he is going to be able to help the Hawks with Horford and Zaza on the floor @ the same time he is playing SF.
Fundamentals
August 9th, 2010
2:13 pm
I think Al has some midrange jumpshot capabilities. Josh would too if he’d focus on shots just outside the paint. Why do all of his shots have to come from 6″ inside the line to claim he doesn’t shoot 3’s anymore? How hard is it to learn your realistic range and play your strengths. That’s all we need – to maximize available talent.
Sy would give us a good defender and potential jewel to develop into a versatile player.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
2:18 pm
I wonder what Boris Diaw has told Sy about the Hawks organization? I wonder if he talked to Sy before or after his self-esteem sessions with his latest sports psychologist.
Hawk n the Ham
August 9th, 2010
2:19 pm
I’m fond of Jason ‘Moon Pie’ Collins, myself.
SteveW
August 9th, 2010
2:30 pm
Rod – I don’t really know what your beef is – if we brought in a very good center – of course I would rather see Josh at 3 than Marvin.
That has not been the discussion with Grandad – he thinks Josh should be moved to three, at least much of the time – I just think Josh is a better 4, for almost identical reasons as MC – enumerated on page 6 of his last blog.
And trust me, if you read me on this and other forums – I have my own opinions. I used MC in this case because Grandad (cool guy, and i like what i now of him BTW) just couldn’t be convinced. Nire’s been writing it. Najeh’s been writing it. I’ve been writing it. Now MC’s writing it. Doesn’t make it correct, just our observations. We have a right to an opinion – just like ya’ll..
SteveW
August 9th, 2010
2:32 pm
Rod – also his arguments go back to LD’s offense, and the interchangibility of parts on the Offensive end in the Motion Offense – we have discussed this ad nausuem – I think we’re at an impasse – so I move on..
Fundamentals
August 9th, 2010
2:33 pm
Boris has no real idea of what our team management, coaching staff, ownership, chemistry, ect are like. He’s so far gone he’d have no clue. Maybe he can talk to Sy about the transition to America? Woodson tried to use Diaw, but he never proved to have the competitive edge, aggression or athletic ability to be what he thought he was. Sy seems the antithesis of Diaw. He sees an opportunity and seems to want to prove he can fit in and contribute. He’s known for his hard nosed aggressive style, not the style of Boris – CANDY TAIL – Diaw.
SteveW
August 9th, 2010
2:37 pm
As for Sy – maybe the hope is – he takes Mo’s spot for next year – Jordan Crawford takes Jamal’s – Gladyr is for insurance – and we use the savings to re-sign Horford.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan doesn’t get a look at a PG/SG back up role once Bibby is gone.
truthspitter
August 9th, 2010
2:37 pm
Anybody that says Josh playing the SF position automatically takes him away from the paint does not have a creative basketball mind. Offensively, there are so many sets you can run where there are 2 guys on the block, regardless of position, teams post up PG’s. Defensively, why do you people think Larry Drew asked Josh to lose 15 pounds when introduced? Because he is going to have to give some minutes at the SF spot. Josh wants to dribble the ball on the break like a SF, he wants to shoot 3’s and long 2’s like a SF, he does not rebound like an elite PF, check Chris Bosh and Boozer 11 rebounds per game, to Josh barely 8. The truth of the matter is Josh is the classic tweener and you people are letting him get away with doing the bad things a tweener does, which is never assert himself in any one category. Josh playing SF can not be any worse than Marvin or Mo playing SF. The only player that would be better than Josh at SF on our team is Joe, but Crawford is not a starter and he should that in his 9 years prior to coming to Atl by never making the playoffs as a starter
Fundamentals
August 9th, 2010
2:37 pm
Why can’t we use our pieces based on match-ups? Some nights we need to go big with Josh at 3 and a big C, other nights we need speed. Most of our problems came from Joe trying to defend the 3 perimeter positions. Bibby and Marvin were too inconsistent in their efforts at times. Hopefully the new regime will fix some of that by playing folks who are going to keep their man in check on D, not just watch them blow by.
Why can’t Smoove help defend or rebound from the SF? We expect Marvin to do it?
HoosierHawk
August 9th, 2010
2:38 pm
I was trying, to no avail, to find Pape’s salary info (to be considered for buyout feasibility). I couldn’t find it, but I did find these stats by game from last year. http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=FRA&PlayerID=73762 He seems to be a very efficient player, just based on a quick glance.
Fundamentals
August 9th, 2010
2:45 pm
If we actually run plays with motion why can’t Josh catch the benefit of slashing, cutting, pick and roll and other opps similar to why we liked Childress so much? We’re always looking for someone who can cut and penetrate to open up shots for Joe and Jamal. Why can’t Josh do that along with Teague? Horford can bump out at times to shoot open jumpers. A defensive C with a decent midrange would be nice.
Barton
August 9th, 2010
2:46 pm
Currently watching game 5 of the Bulls Jazz ‘98 final.. Basketball used to be so interesting. I still have hopes for a coach like LD who seeks ball movement and solid defense. Down with the ISO play! On this subject though.. sounds like we’re starting to build for the future, that’s not good. Can we really not find a Luc Longley to fill the middle for us? Different game these days and the officiating was also a lot better back then too.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
2:56 pm
ILL-Logical,
Great post. You answerd everything. I guess these guys still think that every 3 in the league is a great 3 point shooter. Does anyone here realize that Marvin can’t hit 3’s either.
MC,
“so, in other words, the only correct opinion is your opinion and all others are stupid? well, that saves time at least.”
“Never said that, and actually was not questioning you at all. I was simply letting people know what the original argument was. It was not about Josh playing the three only, it was simply if we added a “big” center, and al was moved to the 4 would you rather Josh or Marvin start at the 3.”
“this is very true. but since anyone who has any basketball knowledge or eyes should know Josh is a better 3 than Marvin, you must have some of that gospel. so i can only assume you are a scout or coach.
the truth is, i don’t know if it’s a good move or not but i have expressed the reasons for my doubts. i don’t really see you making a case here one way or the other except for “basketball knowledge and eyes.”
No actually a player, but I do have a number of scout friends who don’t work for the Hawks, who give me scouting opinions about the players we are discussing. The disadvantages that you named are valid, but I can list many more advantages than disadvantages.
1. Josh can’t shoot 3’s. Neither can Marvin.
2. Josh can’t handle the ball. He handles better than Marvin.
3. Josh averages more assists per game than Marvin.
4. Josh is a better athlete and more versatile than Marvin.
5. Josh can get to the hole and finish better than Marvin.
6. Josh gets to the line almost double that of Marvin. (422 to 215)
7. Josh is a better defender in every way than Marvin. The lateral quickness thing is BS. Most of the time he lets people go by him to set them up for blocks.
8. In his first 3 years in the league, when he did play the 3 some, Josh had 559 of his 1,070 blocks. This tells me that all of those blocks were not from him playing POWER FORWARD, and being close to the basket all of the time.
9. Josh has defended every position on the floor sine he became a Hawk, Marvin has not. Josh has made one on one defensive plays in open space to win games for the Hawks agianst Steve Nash, and Dwayne Wade, Marvin has not.
10. Josh also forces a lot of bad shots, especially by smaller players because of his shot blocking prowess. Marvin does not.
11. Josh is a better rebounder than Marvin, if that is what we need at the 3.
Again, the argument was not that Josh should play the 3, but if the Hawks really wanted to compete for a championship, and decided to bring in a “big” center such a Shaq, Josh starting at the 3 would be the best option, if we moved Al to the 4 and started Shaq. I was not bashing you, just expressing what the argument actually was.
Fundamentals
August 9th, 2010
3:00 pm
How does Lamar Odom play 3 at times if Smoove can’t?
Fundamentals
August 9th, 2010
3:02 pm
Rod has some compelling documentable evidence to support Josh can play 3? Why not? What’s the big deal, especially if you’re keying in on a specific match-up
Fundamentals
August 9th, 2010
3:04 pm
If Marvin has competition from Josh and Sy he’ll be forced to put up or shut up. I see all this speculation and chatter as summertime motivation for players. We have alot on the line this year. Some feel we’re moving forward, others cry the sky is falling. The players response when the season starts will show which group who is right.
If we maximize the existing talent we can do anything we want…if not we’ll go down yet again like we did w/ Woodson.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
3:06 pm
“Rod – I don’t really know what your beef is – if we brought in a very good center – of course I would rather see Josh at 3 than Marvin.
That has not been the discussion with Grandad – he thinks Josh should be moved to three, at least much of the time – I just think Josh is a better 4, for almost identical reasons as MC – enumerated on page 6 of his last blog.”
No beef at all. Actually before you and Grandad got into your debate, me a Grandad had already debated it a couple of months ago. I don’t want to speak for him, but I am pretty sure that he is saying that Josh has the capability to play the 3 in a motion offense sometimes, and that he would be a better option than Marvin at the 3, if that “big” center thing came into fruition. I will let him respond. Being a coach for a number of years, he realizes that just being able to shoot threes is not what makes a 3 in the NBA. I’ll let him answer though. I have no beef at all with you or anybody else on this board. I actually enjoy your post, but is you say something that I don’t agree with, I will state my case.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
3:13 pm
SteveW,
Nire’s been writing it. Najeh’s been writing it. I’ve been writing it. Now MC’s writing it.
The two guys listed first, which I have no beef with now, hold no weight with me concerning anything involving Marvin Williams. One has actually done the impossible and admitted that some of my thoughts about Marvin from 2 years ago might be right, and the other just argues for the sake of arguing. This is a old board argument, which has been discussed many times, you are just in the middle of it this time.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
3:19 pm
Great points truthspitter and Fundamentals.
cp
August 9th, 2010
3:21 pm
From the little I saw of Sy in the summer league I know that he gets after it defensively. He might be a better option than Mo since he is bigger. He has some good handles and he is quick when driving to the lane. The kid might shock some people.
dukester
August 9th, 2010
3:42 pm
@ILL LOGICAL After your post there need be anymore post about Josh playing SF. That sums it up sir. For the people who need it in laymens terms
1. Josh is athelete. And with his size he will either be bigger, faster,or stronger or more atheletic than every player in the league except (Lebron).
2. Josh got heart man! He didnt let woody and his poor coaching ruin his career like he did Marvin’s Acie Law and the rest of the players Woody had under him. So quit with the “Josh got a bad attitude”
That bad attitude made him buck against Woody’s bad coaching.
3.Josh can do anything on the court that he wants to do.
If he would stop shooting 3’s and he did that last year. If he would develop just a nice 15 ft jumper and make the rest of his points in the air and hustling and on the defensive end he would be perfect at SF.
O'Brien
August 9th, 2010
3:45 pm
How big is Sy? Because I am under the impression that he is only 6′5″, making him undersized for a SF and more suited to play guard .
As for Boris diaw, he had issues. But woody was not sure how to utilize him. Boris excels at Point Forward (a poor man’s Josh on offense), but woody played him mostly at SG and SF.
I do think this is put up or shut up time for Marvin. No more excuses about his back injury, or blaming it on woody.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
3:45 pm
Of course, all of this Marvin discussion assumes that Zaza is better in the line-up. So I think it is a moot point, because at least 90% of the time, Al/Josh/Marvin is better than Zaza/Al/Josh. So it feels like a lot of debate over maybe 6-8 minutes of game action maybe once every 3-4 games.
Grandad
August 9th, 2010
3:46 pm
SteveW:
Why don’t you & MC go hold hand & sing “Kum Ba Yah”.
*(no offense Michael)
Rod from College Park – Who woulda’ thunk we
would have formed an alliance.
ILL-Logical – You are the man.
players listed below with 3 pt shooting %:
*Melo 31%
*LbJ 33%
*Marv 30%
*Kirilenko 29 %
*Rudy Gay 32 %
Although better than Josh, still below avg.
& certainly not elite. (percentages)
Folks my argument all along is get your best
players on the floor.
If LD wants to go Big then Josh & Al play [3 & 4].
Marv can back up either.
Motion offense allows for that to occur naturally.
Don’t say Josh cannot block shots while guarding a [3].
He did it last yr guarding everybody but the waterboy.
Heck, he gets alot of blocks chasin’ down fast breaks.
If one plays proper help side defense, it does not matter.
You don’t think teams would scheme to move their [4] away
from the hoop to get Josh further out. Give the other
coach some credit. The game is not played *standing still,
*(well except for Wdsn’s offense) with everyone standing in
one assigned spot.
By the way sometime I’m sure our best line-up will feature
3 guards. Teaguer + Joe & Jamal + 2 Bigs.
Now everyone can be happy…..oh guess what…Joe gets to
play the [3] with this line-up. Imagine if you will – We go
Big Josh @ [3]. We go small Joe @ [3]. Match-up nightmare
for opposition. Everyone must quit stereotyping our players.
The game has changed. We need a face up [5] who can shoot
the “3″, pass effectivly, & guard the rim.
Versatility!!! Don’t pigeonhole Josh.
Also LD’s the coach, if he moves Josh to the [3], he either
moves or sits, or gets traded to Toronto. Never mind,
I forgot for a minute and said out loud what I would do.
That’s too much argueing for one post;
don’t worry SteveW, I’m not through with you just yet.
JerryWest
August 9th, 2010
3:51 pm
ASG will offer Pepe’s team $99 for buyout.
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
4:03 pm
Wow!! Grandad we were on the same page. Couldn’t agree more.
cp
August 9th, 2010
4:07 pm
I think Sy is 6′6 with long arms so he should be able to guard sf’s
Grandad
August 9th, 2010
4:24 pm
SteveW
Why do you think I want to move Josh to the [3]
just for the sake of moving him.
your original statement was:
“Josh does not have the skill set to play the [3]“.
A statement you have since contradicted by saying;
you would move him if we got a Big/true/(?) center.
Also you keep on saying Josh can run the pick & roll
@ the [4] as easily as the [5]. My point exactly.
Numbers don’t matter in motion offense.
Also ‘Rod from College Park’ knows that I think Marv
is/has been out of pos. all along, and yes we would
be better if LD wants to go bigger with Zaza, to move
Josh to the *so called [3].
Plus, dagnabbit, I showed you ways, “ad nauseam” on how
to space the floor with Josh & Al both on the floor
together. [with a center]
“just saw an interesting blog post that argues the
defensive 3-second rule negates many of the advantages
of the zone” *Michael Cunningham*…..^…..above
If player X is matched up on Josh & Josh is moving
perpetually, including the perimeter, the def 3 sec
rule would allow floor spacing. Player X cannot just
sag off Josh & play a zone.
Thank you – ‘Rod from College Park’ for your comments above.
The Truth
August 9th, 2010
4:25 pm
The question is, will 6′6″ Sy have an advantage guarding sf? I’m just tied of the Hawks acquiring under-size players to do heavy lifting. How much more smaller do we want this team to be? We already have a tweener frontline, then 6′5″ Mo Evans off the bench playing sf. Josh Powell could by the 4th option center at 6′9″
Nate ArchiBALL
August 9th, 2010
4:25 pm
“You’re talking about two guys who entered the NBA at a time when the three-point shot didn’t even exist. The game has changed a lot since the late 70s and early 80s. If you look at the career 3 point leaders list, only Dale Ellis came into the league before the late 80s; most of those guys played in the 90s and 00s. In an NBA with no 3 point line, long range shooting would obviously have been a less prized commodity and players like Erving and Dantley would have seen less of a reason to develop that skill.
@ Nejeh – Doc came into the NBA in ‘76 – ‘77 after playing 5 seasons in the ABA which always had the 3 point shot. Doc played 5 years in the ABA during which he made 88 out of 273 3 point shots (about 31%). Doc and AD joined the NBA in ‘76 – ‘77, three years before the 3 pt shot was adopted by the NBA in prior to the ‘79 – ‘80 season. All that is to say, both Doc and AD played the majority of their careers with the 3 pt shot.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
4:28 pm
“How does Lamar Odom play 3 at times if Smoove can’t?”
Odom is a much better shooter and ball-handler than Smoove, but even with that being the case, he’s a better 4 than he is a 3.
Hmmm
August 9th, 2010
4:40 pm
He got a few and 1’s as well. Thats the sign of a scorer. Bye Bye mo. Good riddance, and take Bibby with you. We should sign Trey Gilder for insurance after we ship Mo outta town.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
4:43 pm
“I guess these guys still think that every 3 in the league is a great 3 point shooter. Does anyone here realize that Marvin can’t hit 3’s either.”
No, but nearly every starting 3 in the league shoots better than Josh, including Marvin. It’s not just about percentages either — Grandad supplied us with the shooting percentage of various 3’s in the league, but it goes beyond that. None of those players are baited into shooting jump shots like teams do to Smoove. If Rudy Gay or Andrei Kirilenko steps behind the 3-point line to shoot, the other team will contest the shot. If Josh Smith steps behind the 3-point line to shoot, the other team will back off and thank God he isn’t driving or dishing. This may not be a very statistical analysis I’m giving y’all, but it matters as far as how teams will defend the Hawks with Smoove at the 3. If teams are going to sag off Smoove, it clogs the lanes that Teague and Joe will drive through and gives Horford less room to operate in the post. That will absolutely kill any offensive chemistry the Hawks want to build in Drew’s new offense.
Rod, I honestly don’t think my opinion and yours are that much at odds. You think Marvin sucks, which is true, and Josh would be a better 3 than Marvin by default, which may be true. I think Josh is not a good fit at the 3. Just because he might be a better all around player than Marvin doesn’t mean he should be playing that position on this team. First of all, like Astro Joe says, moving Marvin to the bench means putting Zaza in the lineup, and as mediocre as Marvin is, he’s not as bad as Zaza. Secondly, sometimes how well a player fits at a position matters more than how good he is in absolute terms. The New Orleans Hornets have three very good guards (Paul, Collison, Thornton) and a bunch of mediocrity at center, but this doesn’t mean they should play one of those guards at center simply because he’s a better player in absolute terms.
In a perfect world, the Hawks would have ponied up the cash to bring in someone who could either replace Marvin as the starting SF or start at SG and allow Joe to move to SF. But in the absence of any significant free agent upgrade at that position, Marvin is the best option to start at that position at this point in time.
Francois
August 9th, 2010
4:46 pm
Odom could play PG if he really needed to. He’s one of the most versatile big men I’ve ever seen. He actually ran the point for Rhode Island in college at times.
Smooth is a totally different player and equally talented, if not more talented, in his own right. Smoove is a better interior and help-side defender with superior athleticism, but he lacks the offensive ability that Odom has. I don’t think these two should really be compared as their styles have very little in common.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
4:50 pm
None of the “Smoove at the 3″ proponents so far have addressed the problem of floor spacing. Watch teams like San Antonio, Phoenix, the Lakers, or Orlando, and you’ll see players who have a ton of room to operate, whether they are in the post or on the perimeter. Floor spacing is an extremely key component to a functioning offense, regardless of what scheme is being run. Assuming Teague beats out Bibby for the starting job, how exactly are the Hawks supposed to space the floor with three guys trying to play in the paint and one guy who can hit outside shots?
It’s not always about who is the better player. Once you get past your core players, it’s mostly about who is the best fit.
Mr. Phil
August 9th, 2010
4:53 pm
It’s simple folks. Josh needs to continue to start at the 4 and situationally play some 3. It is that simple.
Nate ArchiBALL
August 9th, 2010
4:55 pm
@ MC – I disagree with your comment about Josh Smith’s foot speed. He’s one of the fastest basket to basket players in the league. In addition, Al’s foot speed is probably the best at the Center position. Think about the many times when Josh and Al were running the break while our guards (JJ and Mike) were trailing the play. Hawks were probably the only team that ran the break with their frontcourt.
Astro Joe
August 9th, 2010
4:55 pm
Here’s my guess, Horford is FAR better at C than Josh would be at 3. So given that the only other 5s on the team are Zaza and Collins, what’s the point of the debate? The T-E-A-M is better of with Horford, Josh and Marvin as the front court players whoplay the majority of their minutes at the 5, 4 and 3 respectively. It doesn’t much matter who is capable of what, the issue is about winning. Right?
What’s next, debating the greatest team trainers in franchise history?
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
5:09 pm
“All that is to say, both Doc and AD played the majority of their careers with the 3 pt shot.”
Yeah, but the reason I pointed out that so many of the career 3-point leaders played in the 90s and 00s is because the 3-point shot was not nearly as integral to a good offense in the late 70s and 80s as it is now. For the first 8 years of the 3-point shot being instituted in the NBA, the league leader in 3’s didn’t even reach triple figures. All of a sudden in 1987-88, the leading 3-point total took a huge jump and it has only stayed up since. Dr. J retired before this league-wide 3-point explosion occurred, and Adrian Dantley retired three years later. Even if you look at the 3-point attempts for other players of that era, like Magic Johnson, you’ll notice a huge jump around this time.
LeBron James often gets criticized for not having a reliable long-range jumper. I highly doubt Dr. J and Adrian Dantley took the same criticism back then. The point I was making is that the game Dr. J and Adrian Dantley honed their skills to play is very different from the game today’s SFs hone their skills to play. When they were in college and early in their careers, they didn’t have to focus on making 25-foot jumpers in practice in order to be more prepared to excel in the NBA.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
5:10 pm
“I disagree with your comment about Josh Smith’s foot speed. He’s one of the fastest basket to basket players in the league. ”
Straight line foot speed and lateral quickness are two completely different things. Josh is a very quick straight line player. Moving side to side, not so much.
truthspitter
August 9th, 2010
5:15 pm
Trade Proposal. Well my trade proposal of yesterday was meet with mostly good response. If you missed it, it was a trade in which we would get Mo Williams (Cleveland) and Andris Biedrins (Golden State) while giving up Mo Evans, Marvin Williams, Zaza, and Bibby. We would then send Jamal to either Detroit or Indiana for Mike Dunleavy Jr. or Prince. The trade would allow us to get better while staying under luxury threshold in the upcoming year when we must resign Horford.
Today’s Trade Proposal would give us 3 All-Stars to match any other teams big 3. All while allowing us to stay under luxury threshold in upcoming year when we must resign Horford.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2795y3v
Hawks Receive: SF Danny Granger
Indiana Receives: PG Jeff Teague, SF Marvin Williams and C Zaza
You may ask why would Indiana do this? Off course, I don’t know but they are looking for a PG and Teague would bring that. Along with them getting a SF who has started for a playoff team and a backup C who comes cheaper than there current back whose contract runs out this year in Foster.
New Look:
PG Bibby/Jamal Crawford/Developmental League Special
SG Joe/Jamal Crawford/Jordan Crawford
SF Granger/ Mo/ Sign Carney or TMac
PF Smoove/Powell
C Horford/ Sign Boone/Collins
Joe, Granger, Horford, Smoove vs Rondo, Allen, Pierce, KG this is the only 4 that can come even close in the East
Rod from College Park
August 9th, 2010
5:18 pm
Najeh,
I am with you, and agree on some of your points, but remember teams don’t guard Marvin at all. If they do, they put a smallish guard like Hinrich or Mayo on him, or his man (Lebron) is free to roam and help on other guys, because Marv posses no offensive threat. Josh is not a great outside shooter, but again with any offense, a team would not dare try to guard Josh with a small guard because they know that Josh would simply take them to the rim and either finish over them or through them. Can’t say the same for Marv. Josh does not have to start in the post. He proved last year playing that point forward crap that he could get to the rim after being on the perimeter. Another point is that in most traditional offenses that I’ve played in, on the break, the 3’s main job is to fill the lane and finish. Who would you rather finish on the break, Marvin who can’t finish against the likes of Jameer Nelson and Brandon Jennings, or Josh? The 4’s and fives usually are asked to trail the play for put backs or rebounds being that they are the farthest back. Arguments can be made both ways, but it really is irrelevant as long as we keep the same team, unless Drew desides to start Zaza at the 5.
jason
August 9th, 2010
5:22 pm
why don’t we just sign jerry stackhouse as a back up small foward for marvin. In pre-season if he puts up better numbers then marvin, why dont we start a VETERAN who knows DEFENSE like the back of his hand!
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
5:26 pm
“If player X is matched up on Josh & Josh is moving
perpetually, including the perimeter, the def 3 sec
rule would allow floor spacing. Player X cannot just
sag off Josh & play a zone.”
Defensive 3 seconds only applies if a defensive player spends 3 seconds in the paint without guarding someone. If you’re playing a zone, you just have to step out of the paint every 3 seconds and get back in. Flip Saunders has used zone defenses for the last 10 years despite the 3 second rule and this is what his players do. And don’t forget, the 3-second rule works both ways. Josh can’t just hang out in the paint, wait for the defensive player to get out of his way, and catch an alley oop either. Your hypothetical Player X can sag off Josh and play a zone as long as he’s not in the paint.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 9th, 2010
5:30 pm
“Horford is FAR better at C than Josh would be at 3. So given that the only other 5s on the team are Zaza and Collins, what’s the point of the debate? The T-E-A-M is better of with Horford, Josh and Marvin as the front court players whoplay the majority of their minutes at the 5, 4 and 3 respectively.”
Co-sign. Until the Hawks get a better backup C who makes it worth it to move Horford to the 4 and Smoove to the 3, or they get a better SF who can force Marvin to the bench, Marvin-Josh-Al is the best starting front court for this team, for better or for worse.
Grandad
August 9th, 2010
5:34 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
I’ve addressed floor spacing ’til I’m tired
of repeating myself to people who won’t listen
or don’t understand concepts.
Also you are correct;
there is a difference between speed & quickness.
Josh is both faster & quicker than Marv.
You guys need to quit trying to form fit Josh into
last year’s system when the Hawks will be running
completely dif schemes this year.
Not to mention adjustments will be made;
something which never occurred in the past.
So ‘DrJ’ would play the [4] in the NBA in today’s game?
[DrJ = 6-6, 200 lbs] per Basketball-Reference.com
jason
August 9th, 2010
5:39 pm
why don’t we work out a trade with milwuake or however u spell it to send mo evans and marvin williams to the bucks for jerry stackhouse. We should start jerry a good DEFENDER!!!!!!!! at the 3. Give zaza 20 mins per game and sign etan thomas.